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Hey, I'm Jon.
And I'm Becky.
And this is the We Are For Good podcast.
Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
So welcome to the good community, where Nonprofit Professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. We just got so pumped right now.
I mean, I have one of my favorite writers and storytellers on the podcast today one of my favorite friends. And let me tell you a little story because once upon a time we got an email into our inbox and it was like I am so I'm so excited to just show the broccoli in our teeth on this because I just think it's hilarious. We got this email from our esteemed guest, Christy Kern, and she's like, Hey, all love the podcast. I'm in Pro I am loving the content. Are you aware that there is a video in there where Jon and Becky are bickering? Not get edited. I don't even know what we were going back and forth about. But let's let's face it, Christy Kern told us in the kindest way possible, you know, in an ethical and dignified way how we can clean up our content. And that is the basis of how this relationship started. So now that you know this story and this incredibly kind human, we're going to talk about spreading the love of ethical storytelling today. It is my absolute profound joy to introduce you to Christy Kern. She is a facilitator. She is a researcher in the ethical storytelling and what she is discovering that is really nuanced about how ethical storytelling needs to be integrated into our brand. She is a season communications consultant who has traveled the world working with hundreds of businesses and nonprofits organizations through the lens of this ethical storytelling. She's coaching and leading workshops. Not only does she work with clients to find clarity within their messaging, she can help that message be conveyed in the right way. And we talk about this so much on the podcast about how are we giving dignity to the person who is providing us the story and opening their heart and connecting it to our mission and Christy is going to walk through us all of that today. So after more than a decade of living abroad she settled in Chicago with her husband Hagen and their incredible curly canine Watson so Christy Kern, get in our house it is overdue for you to come in and have a conversation with us.
I am so excited to be here. Gosh, I just wanted like spend my days in conversation with you guys. So that's really like let's make that happen.
Because let's be the last line of your of her of her bio that we left out she's a huge fan of pot pot and love searching for good tacos. You're our people that's like the most sports like thing I can do.
Oh my gosh how did I miss that thing that? Peoplewho talk tacos to us our people it is our happy love language food We Are For Good we are for food also. So Christy Kern, we want to know about you like you have such a global story. I love how you've worked. I mean, you've been in Switzerland you've been in Asia and talk about growing up talk about this incredible heart you have for telling stories that matter in the right way and let us know about little Christy Kern and how this developed in her heart early on.
Oh my goodness. I I wanted to be a spy growing up I was so into James Bond and I was convinced that I was going to be like the first female double oh seven and by the way, if you've watched the last one it clearly didn't you know achieve that goal. Someone beat me to it but I did actually went down the whole route of you know, looking into the FBI, the CIA and made it for pretty far along in the process and realize that I could not lie for a living and again, this is not to say anything against amazing people who protect a lot of things right this is not a
This is what a spy would say Christy.
My cover is...my cover. I don't know. But I just it didn't sit well with me and they Good night. This is not to make a day get edit chosen profession that I think can be very honorable. But I switched gears and went into humanitarian work as one does. 180 out of airplane, I might as well like beyond I don't know, I'm sorry, did I went into development work? And kinda, that's how I landed a little bit in this space.
Incredible.
Yeah, I mean, I love your journey. And I know the time that we've spent with you, you just are like us that we are geeks about storytelling, we just really believe in the power of it. And so much beyond just the surface level of what a story can do. And so I want to give you space today, because we want to bring you on and talk about frameworks. I mean, a lot of us are looking for ways to implement this in our mission. So we set the tone for really creating a framework and talking about the use of the keys of communication, how it relates to nonprofits.
I am a huge fan of frameworks, you know, and here's the thing, too, I've been in marketing communication for a really long time. And I think we're in a, I don't know what you'd say, a wave of time where people develop five steps, and then they sell it like, do these five steps in your nonprofit marketing will forever be changed, or this is the way to do it. And I think that's well and good in a lot of ways. But I also think that the reason I'm a big fan of frameworks rather than five steps is I think that they're those guardrails that you get to play in a little bit. And I think when you have a space of not do these things, but here's kind of how you can craft something, and it gives you almost like a play sandbox to plan right, maybe a little bit more. So I, you know, in my bio, we talked about the fact that I facilitate, I came across a company called Story brand. Several years ago, I'd been...
Love Story Brand.
I know, so do I, which is great, because I now work for them. So it would be bad if I said no at this point. But I, I facilitate workshops for them. And the reason that I love that job so much is exactly this is a framework that I can give people. And it allows them to craft a story within boundaries that just help them understand what they're doing and create something that comes out on the other side, really clear and really powerful and really compelling. And so I think getting a chance to kind of help people find their way in this space is just a really cool thing.
I agree with you because sometimes those list as well intended as they are put so much rigidity in the list. And it's like, you know, the world is changing day by day right now, especially digitally, how we interact is changing day by day. And we have to lean into the nuance of that which we talked about a little in your intro. And so I want to ask you a little bit to talk about like setting the tone for these keys of communication and how it's going to relate to nonprofit today.
So I kind of landed on these four. Yeah, I call them the keys of communication. And they're really just things that I have come to be my own guiding principles in communication. And I'm gonna back up really quick. You know, we talked I think, Jon, you mentioned that we kind of nerd out geek out about story. I came to this space, because I did so many things wrong. And I if there is a message that I want to kind of stand on today, it's the fact that I have a lot of grace for that. And I am out to talk about these things. Because I love, love love to prevent folks from making some of the same mistakes that I made, you know, I think I got these amazing experiences. You know, I lived overseas, I got to do communication on behalf of some really incredible organizations. And the truth is, I didn't really know what I was doing. And I just made some bumbling errors that I would love to prevent from happening, you know, in the future. And so coming out of my own space of just bumbling through this not always doing things right, I've really landed on some guiding principles that I use when I communicate and hopefully help others as well. And one of them really, I borrowed very graciously from Brene. Brown, but it's this idea that to be clear as to be kind, right. And she she talks about this kind of in our capacity of setting expectations. And I think this is so true in our communication as well, that really when we are when we complicate things when we try to be clever instead of clear when we over Li You know, when we confuse people, we're actually making it harder for them maybe to engage with our organization maybe to know what we're asking of them. And so I think one of the first principles that I try to lean into is how do we make this clearer and clearer because it's not just good practice. It's actually an act of kindness to the person on the other side of that communication.
Oh, that was so kind. Excellent. I love too and so go into the second one, because I think there's four of these right?
There is. The second thing that I really landed on is this idea that dignity is really at the root or should be at the root of all of our communication. I've thought so much about our roles that we play as marketers, as communicators, even as donors and beneficiaries, and givers. And I'm learning more and more that we have kind of created these hierarchical structures of I need something from you, and I'm taking something from here, and I'm giving something here. And I think we've come by way of that, honestly. But I think by putting people in these kind of predefined roles of your donor, so I need to woo you into giving me money, or you're a beneficiary. So I need to collect something like a story from you in which to share with this donor, I think we have kind of lost a little bit of the dignity of the humans in those roles. And, and this isn't just about the dignity of our beneficiary, although that's a space I will camp out in all day. But I also think it's about our dignity, as the marketers, I think it's about our dignity as the person reading that marketing, right, really expecting and teaching our donors that we recognize their inherent dignity as well and their role in this, that it isn't just about needing something from them. So a lot a lens that I try to use in everything that I work on and put together is that we really see the person in each of these spaces.
Love that.
I mean, this is your you're putting into words, the things that I know really hold really true and try to amplify on this. And so I think this framework, these guardrails are really helpful.
And the third one is to know what you're for. I think, especially in today's politicized climate, we're so eager to jump into what we're against, right, we were always kind of railing against one thing or another. And there's a place for that, right, I am the first person who will get up in a soapbox and tell you all day long about what I'm against. But I'm really trying to lean in this space of being a lot more strongly taking a stand for what I'm for and understanding. It's not just about being against something, but it's really about understanding the principles or the belief systems that I want to stand behind and really leading with that rather than leading with what I'm against. And I've found that this is such a powerful mindset shift. And it's one that I have to kind of remind myself over and over again, because again, it's a lot easier to come back to, I don't want this to be true in the world versus I want this to be true instead and leading with that.
And I love that from a communication standpoint, because the consistency of using those words over and over is something that your your followers, your believers, your donors, they start to see that and the repetition of that. I mean, we know as marketers consistency is key. And seeing that they're going to start to reflect that back to you, which is the coolest moment when that does happen.
Oh my gosh, think about the wave that that can create when you have these people who are all rallying together for something. I mean, that's, that's a powerful momentum shift, I think.
Agreed. Agreed.
Like the whole idea to have just like, don't bring me the problem, like also come with like, what, how we can move forward. And I think there's power in that of aligning people about something they get excited about the vision.
Yeah, you're casting this vision for what could be right and you're inviting people into that story of this is the better world that's possible. How do we move people into that space?
Okay, so we're dying to know, final one. Bring us home.
Final one, always anchor in value. This actually came. Several years ago, I co hosted an online summit with a dear friend of mine. And when we sat down to do this, we sat down to talk about all the things we didn't like about online summits and all the things we did clearly know what you're for. But one of the things that we were really clear on that we were for was that we were not going to put out a single email, social media post or presentation that didn't have deep inherent value in it. And truthfully, we cut a lot of stuff for that very reason we would come through every piece of communication with that lens of business email and actually deliver value if it doesn't, it got axed, and I it was a painful process to also realize how much content we were creating for the sake of content
That hurts me for you, honestly, because I think that on our end too for things that we haven't published. I get it.
Yeah, it you know, especially as folks who earn a living by creating content for marketing and communications, it's a really hard thing to to take that critical lens and say, does this actually deliver real value or am I just doing this because I'm supposed to get an email out this Wednesday or? And so I have come back to this time and time again. Again, these are things that I put these out because I need them to constantly the guy guardrails for me but to make sure that I'm not posting things for the sake of posting them or writing an email simply because it's a Wednesday, but that whatever is contained in that has true value for the person who's on the other side of it.
One of the themes that we love to bring up on the podcast because, I mean, we're like you were practitioners for so long that it's like we want to help encourage the sector to like lean into this is ethical storytelling. And I know it's a huge passion of yours. So you hope this kind of walk through how you would with a client of how do you morph a story or approach and define this dignified approach instead.
I think kind of like we talked about, at the beginning of this episode, I started off again, loving frameworks. And appreciating that there are some really good ones out there. In fact, if you go over to like ethical storytelling.com, these folks have already done a beautiful job thinking through kind of, to dues and not to do lists. And so I am not out to reinvent any wheel, I think some really beautiful groundwork has been laid in these and I, if you are in this space, go check some of these resources out. One thing though, that I have started to realize over time, is that the word ethical was tripping me up a little bit. This is a very recent kind of unpacking for me. What do you guys think about let me ask you this, you guys think a lot about ethical storytelling? What about ethics? What comes to mind when you think about ethics?
Jon, we're like put on the spot. But I'm like, what I feel like is like, doing the right thing inherently doing the right thing. And I define the right thing kind of is like, what is our moral compass? Say? What is the little of we, in our house? We call it the little man that lives in our gut that tells us when something is right or wrong, and is it kind? And is it something we would one and does that value align. So I don't know what you would say, Jon, but that's me.
I kept thinking like centering the human, you know, and I've done a lot of just like personal reflection of just the words I use, even throughout my career. And it's still like, I'm realizing I use words that we're triggering, or maybe even putting people in defining them by words that were just trying to raise awareness. But in, in retrospect, we're actually just perpetuating more of the problem, you know, too. So I think of both those kinds of things in my head.
Love that.
I do too, I think that is such a beautiful definition. In fact, I'm really glad that there's going to be a transcript because I'm going to borrow that. I think when I started in this space, I am somebody who does really well with black and white. So coming back to that sense of, you know, to be clear as to be kind. I appreciate clarity, and what expectations are of me, right? I appreciate clarity. And am I doing it right? Or am I not doing it? Right? And it's just a little bit of how I'm wired. And so when I came into this, I wanted to clearly know, am I doing storytelling, ethical storytelling, right? Or am I not doing it right? And what has been so hard for me is that I think it is the little man in your gut, it is not such a clear cut, check these boxes, and I am a fan. I do think there is a time and a space for those check boxes to make sure hey, did we do all the things that we meant to do? Kind of like a packing list so that I get all the stuff in my suitcase that I meant to get in there. But at the same time, even packing is a little bit? What's the weather? What do I want to wear to that dinner I have to go to I think ethical storytelling has a lot more nuance in it to exactly this, am I building a connection? First and foremost, am I creating stories in a way that make the both of us feel good about what that story is and how I share it. And so as I've gotten into this, I've started kind of relating this a little bit more to like story stewardship than ethical story telling in the sense. Again, these are words that are helping me unpack things, they may or not be helpful for other folks. But I have this way that sing about when a really good friend shares a story with you. You treat that story very differently than you do. If it's somebody you don't know, right, if if Becky and I were sitting down, or Jon and I were sitting down and I share something kind of personal with you, you're probably not going to turn around write a social media post about it, right. And yet, unintentionally, sometimes I think that when we collect these stories, from beneficiaries, or even from board members or things, we treat them a little bit like a commodity. And then that checklist comes into place of did I ask them, okay, I did tell them I was going to post this am I using good words or bad words? Okay, I made sure I didn't use this word. But we're, we're not really coming at it from the place. And again, I'm speaking really from my own experience. So I want to be really careful here. But this is where I have messed up in the past. I've wanted to checklist and I've missed the relational connection to really treat this as a conduit for building a connection rather than as a commodity to be used. That you know, in that story, and so this is where some of that nuance in Ethical storytelling has come for me. I've really, how do I treat everybody with that sense of is this right or wrong? Do I feel in my gut that this is honoring to somebody? Jon, how your definition was so beautiful of like, Does this person feel empowered and dignified and better because of this experience? So that's where I'm landing these days.
You just said relationship over commodity. I'm like, holy cow,
I feel Jon's about to make a graphic out of that it's coming for this episode. But I also want to, I want to come into this space of vulnerability with you and tell you, you know, I've been a writer my whole life, and I don't think I've done this well, you know, fully in my career, and I think I'm still messing it up right now. You know, but I do think if I were gonna give any counsel that anyone listening just about something that I've learned, it's like, how you come into it at the very beginning. And how you set that tone is very, very important. And I think it's different. When you say, hey, we'd love to tell your story, which is what I would do in the past. But now we say things like, we would love for you to help Ko Ko tell the story or cobuild the story with us. And I'll give you an example. So we had JJ Velasquez on for good humans weeks, last December and and he had been incarcerated wrongfully convicted and incarcerated for 24 years. And when he was exonerated, I mean, can you imagine the trauma of that, and as we were building that script in that conversation, we did a lot of pre work with him. And it was a lot of questions about are these the right words? How does this feel to you? You know, do you want to take any of this out is this where the conversation wants to go? You know, and this is your story that has to be underpinnings, because we are really dealing with people who have gone through deep trauma. And we want to be respectful of that. And we want to make sure that the story that we tell through our medium that We Are For Good aligns with the message that he wants to get out about justice and about, you know, revitalization and about community engagement. And also, you know, there's a great he, I love that I brought him up accidentally, because he was a part of curating the first TEDx at Sing Sing prison in New York. And it was lifting the voices of prisoners, and letting them have a voice, letting them have dignity, and in a place where they felt society had discarded them. And so that's just one example. And I can tell you, we are not getting it right all the time here. But like you, we are students of this, we are evangelist of trying to learn more. So thank you for saying that. And I just want everybody to know that we're on this journey too.
This is one of many, many reasons why I adore you guys in the work you're doing. And I think it's just that like peeling back this curtain and letting people see the messy behind the scenes of these things. Coming to light, you know, we we read an email that has a story in it, or we see a YouTube video or we hear it on a podcast. And we don't always understand and appreciate all the work that went into building that relationship behind the scenes, all the editing, exactly what you said, are you comfortable with this? Do you want to rephrase this? Do we not say this, right? That's what real relationship looks like I think and getting to the point of, again, this is no longer a commodity that I'm sharing, or using for some end goal. This is really a sense of you helps people build a relationship. Through hearing that story. You create a connections. And I agree, I don't think any of us will always get it right. But I think getting to see how we move through this process. That's where I'm learning the most is watching other people say, here's how I'm developing, you know, my journey, my process towards collecting stories and building relationships. And that's the fact that you're kind of pulling the curtain back and sharing that it's just beautiful and phenomenal.
Well, we should like I think we should be talking about everything, what's working, what's not working, like let's fail forward together. And I'm just really curious about your research. Because, you know, I just want everybody to know, every time that I've talked to you, Christy in the last like year and a half, you're just like a sponge. You're just you put your flag down and you say this is what I'm here for. I want to create awareness about it. I want to create ripples with it. And you've done all this research on it. And I would just love to know like what are your research findings about ethical storytelling?
I think there are some amazing organizations out there that are really leading the charge and being very vulnerable on this front. And one of them if you don't follow already is 100 cameras They have actually made a really conscious decision, which I think is beautiful to start removing themselves literally from the picture. And really just focusing on who they're serving, and I, I have watched them, they're not talking about this. I know a lot, but they are doing it in such a genuine way of really shining the spotlight on again, knowing what they're for, and empowering the people they're serving and making it all about them and less about the organization. I had an incredible opportunity this summer to go with a group called kindred exchange to Uganda. And they are also at the kind of, I'll say, vulnerable forefront of saying we might not be getting it right. But we're going to talk about it every step of the way. And when we need to course correct, we're also going to talk about it. And they're just doing such a great job. They're they're reorienting their language constantly. They're trying things they're, you know, collecting feedback and saying this is working. Well, this isn't and I just have the most, again, this is how we learn, like I just have the most immense respect for organizations that are putting themselves out there. And just saying, like, let's learn together. And so I would say the biggest takeaways that I have gotten is actually this something that I'm leaning into a little bit more of, hey, we don't have to have it all figured out. We don't have to have, you know, this locked in and perfectly aligned to kind of move forward with this. We can learn and grow as as we move forward.
Yeah. I mean, every time we talk about ethical storytelling, to me, it comes back to like, we're creating this magnet of like, valued people. And like, those are the people you want closest to your mission anyway. You know, I mean, we talk about be gathering believers around your mission, like that's more powerful than just donors. And I'm like, that's how you do it. Like when you live your values out loud, like 100 cameras. I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I shouldn't have googled them, because now I'm lost in the vortex of 100 cameras.
But, you had 100 conversations right on your trip to Uganda. That was a part. I mean, I will put that post in the show notes, because you did a long dive about what you learned when you had 100 conversations on this trip, and what you learned about ethical storytelling, and I think that it was just brilliant.
Thanks. I you know, I'm actually still in the middle of those 100 conversations. And I think what's really, so amazing to me is that I, I started off not knowing where this is going. I still don't know where this is going. But I think so many people bring in new perspectives, I had someone auto shout at Raj Lula at fruitful marketing is really working in the just marketing space is really anchored in the DEI space and thinking about what does it look like to to bring a more just approach to our marketing, and just is doing that with such grace and conviction. And there's so many parallels and overlaps to his work into this, you know, ethical storytelling side. And I, Ray O'Brien, who you're talking about earlier, is is looking into trauma informed marketing. And I think there's just so many different kind of avenues into this of just, what can we what, what all can we bring into this space? I don't think that it is. So like, here's our circle of ethical storytelling. And here's our circle of marketing. And here's our circle of donor relations. I think that it is such kind of the the, the ecosystem underneath all of this to say, how do we kind of come back and instill dignity in everything we do? How do we come back and really build relationships first, before we put out content. I hope that becomes at least for me, I hope that underlies everything that I learned to do going forward.
That's beautiful. And I wonder if you would lead us into like some do this. Not that we love doing this on the podcast, just getting really practical. Like what some stuff you see out there that you're like, instead of doing it this way, maybe this is a more impactful way to do it.
So when it comes specifically to storytelling, I would say a couple of things that I have really appreciated. I have heard people talk about this. And I saw this firsthand in Uganda. When we were on the field. We there were no cameras that came out right away. Meaning that before we started collecting any sort of materials via photos, videos, whatever, there was really an intentional space of building relationships first and foremost. And I think by the time cameras came out, it was such a different like, let me take a selfie with my new best friend versus like, here's somebody that lives overseas that you should see a picture of. And so I would say one thing that I have really loved is that again, intentionality of relationship first. Another kind of do that I have loved is really kind of centering. Exactly what you said earlier, Becky of this isn't me taking a story from you to share somewhere. This is actually me giving you the stage to share. Are your story. Tory hope Pearson has a hoodie in her online shop that I love. And I'm gonna butcher this, I should have pulled it up beforehand. But it says something like something about the fact that people aren't voiceless, like they don't need, we don't need to be a voice for the voiceless necessarily, we just need to give them the space for their voice to be heard. And I think about that so often because we have grown up in this society of be the voice for the voiceless. And I think there are very few people out there in the world today that are actually voiceless, I think most of the time, we just hold on to the microphone so tightly, we never get them a chance to share their own voice.
Preach. What a visual.
I'm feeling like so exposed, right that like it, but it's a good feeling. Because don't you think that if you carry that a little bit with you, it's gonna give you some emotional intelligence to check yourself, it's gonna give you some self awareness to be like, it's not all about you, you know, we need to check again, that ego at the door, we need to share the space. And I mean, I feel the power of that. I know Jon does too. And the weight of it, just simply having this microphone, and it's just such a profound gift to be able to have people like you, and you know, these 300 guests that have come on to this podcast to just share what they know, to help us all move through this world a little more kindly, a little more humanely. I'm just, I'm just here for it. So okay, Christy, this is the mother of all questions for you. Because I've been wanting to know this entire time, about a story in your life, where philanthropy has come in. And you feel like it's changed you and you've had so many interviews, and so many discovery calls, and I cannot wait to hear the one that has stuck with you the most.
All right, so this is a two part story. Several years ago, I was raising money for Dressember. And it kept towards the end of the month, and I was several $100 short of my goal that year, I'd set a really ambitious goal. And I really wasn't even close. It was, yeah, multiple hundreds of dollars short of this school. And so I sent out sort of a last ditch post probably on Instagram or something and was like, Hey, guys, you know, we're hitting the end of December. I am, let's say $450, short, whatever it was reaching this target goal. You know, if you can help, that'd be great. And I don't know if I really even expected anything other than like, this is my obligation to put this out here one more time. And later that day, I got an email that the goal had been met. And the entire donation had come from one person who I did not know very well, she was younger than me. You know, so there is a sense in my mind of how did she have 400. Let's say I don't actually remember the number but let's say it was $450. Like, this person who barely knows me just gave that much money towards this cause. Okay, so fast forward a couple of years later. I live in Chicago, my mom was visiting and I had a networking at night excuse me network networking, a fundraising gala to go to and I had asked like, Hey, can I just bring my mom with me? She's visiting, please, no expectations that she's going to give. I just want to hang out with my mom. So she came with me to this dinner. And you know, at the end of the gala, they made their appeal and my mom pulled out her checkbook and I was like, Hey, Mom, that was not why I brought you like I just wanted to hang out with you. This is a cause we care about but I didn't bring you to donate. And she goes no, that's why I brought this checkbook. And I was like I'm sorry. Like first off I don't even have a checkbook like what do we have about like distinguishing checkbooks, and she said anytime money comes in, we she goes I take a little bit and I set it aside into a separate checking account. So whenever things like this come up, if I want to give money I don't have to worry about it coming out of our budget. I just have money set aside for moments like this and she's like I think this is really cool. So I'm gonna write a check. Y'all that floored me maybe there are people listening who are like this is not like why are you so surprised at this but I had never thought about that and so I went home and I opened up a separate checking account and now I do this I squirrel away a little money everything that comes in and I laugh It is my favorite debit card to use because now I get to be the one when I see these crazy hey we're $350 Short of our goal or whatever I'm like oh my gosh, let me pull out my favorite debit card cuz I got some money for that. And I
Such an epic story.
You guys, everybody knows, like this debit card is my favorite debit card. But it has been the most fun money that I have ever gotten to spend because it gets to be used not in my typical like there are organizations that I give to regularly that's not what this is right? This is kind of also play money. I don't mean to belittle that but in the sense of like, the unexpected. And so that's made that thanks to other people in my life who show me the way now I get to have a lot of fun.
Your mom created like a donor advised fund in her checking account and it gave you like this Oprah moment to be like, you get the $350, $350 dollars. That is an amazing segue.
I'm glad your mom was not the anonymous donor with this check that's under an alias. Sounds like the spies connecting
Nooo
Mom was the spy the whole time. Christy Kern, I mean, you have validated every reason that we are just kindred spirits with you and this interview. And so I want to give you space to Like Share your one good thing, how do you sum up a piece of advice and share that with this community? I don't know. But I'm excited to hear it.
I thought about this a lot. And I really think that it is either finding or creating a space where you can be vulnerable and make mistakes and there are people around who will help you course correct and point you to a better place. I was at the gym this morning I go to one of these gyms. It's like group fitness classes. And so they have trainers that walk around all the time, you know, kind of yelling motivational things at you and telling you you have 10 seconds left don't give up.
Adjusting Becky's yoga pose because she can never stretch. Yes, got it, yeah, I see it.
So this is okay, we're on the same page here because I showed her this gym a few months ago. And I was so intimidated, but I want to get stronger, like strength is not really in my physical repertoire. And so I showed up at this gym, and I was like, Listen, I am so intimidated to be in this room. But I really want to get stronger and I need help. And I have kind of laughed because I feel like I have become the problem child there is never not a trainer like hovering around me somewhere, like correcting my yoga pose, you know, like constantly yelling like you can do this or hitting me heavier weights. And I noticed a couple of weeks ago, I always laugh that I feel like the gravitational magnet for you know, course correction here. But I've noticed that they don't actually do this for everyone. And I think it's because when I showed up initially, I told them what I wanted, I wanted to get stronger, I was intimidated, and I needed help. And I think that there's a lot of parallels and how I need to show up in this work of ethical storytelling. If I'm really intimidated to get it wrong. I don't know what I'm doing. And I need help to get it right. And so I'm trying to constantly create ways that there are people around me who I can be vulnerable with, I can make those mistakes, and that they will speak into my life and say you kind of is that you probably shouldn't have used that word there, Christy or did you really think about how that was going to come across. And that's really hard. I think it's really hard for any of us to allow that kind of input in our life. I'm not somebody who likes to get it wrong. But if I look at going to the gym, y'all I am stronger than I've ever been in my life in the course of a few months. And the thing that really is interesting to me is that I have not injured myself despite the fact that I've been pushing my body so hard. And I think that that has got to be so true in this space of marketing communication, that when I have people around me who who want to help me get better in those ways who want to help me do it, right, I can push harder than I have, with a lot less fear of injury to myself, but also to the other people around me. And so I don't have the answer of how we always create that. But I am very intentionally looking for that in my life right now. And so that's my one good thing that I'm working on if that's helpful.
She's just like story told the most beautiful metaphorical Mind Body Spirit working journey that you're on right now. And I see it I You're the first guest we've ever had on the podcast who said no, we don't need to promote me or my business. Like we need to promote this idea. We need to get this idea trending. We need to get it to become in place. And we need people to be curious and try to implement it. And I just think you're one of the great humans in our world in our midst. And thank you for opening up your journey to us of what you're learning because the openness of your heart and what you're learning is the thing that's creating ripples so extraordinary. So okay, tell people where how they can connect with you, Christy, because I know people are gonna want to get a hold of resources, they're gonna want to look at your writing, they're gonna want to see what you're discovering. Give us all the connection points.
There are not that many. But you can find me at Christykern.com and I am back on LinkedIn. I don't know how long that will last.
Social boundaries.
I'm there at least for for this season. But I do I would love to connect with folks again, I, I am learning all that I can so I'm always happy to have conversations about how we can do this better. I'm happy to learn about best practices that other people are implementing, I will always always welcome those connections. So find me however you can, but come at me with it.
And I'll say like, we'll link all this up in the show notes, you dropped some great links to ethicalstorytelling.com, which we've used, we use their ethical checklist, storytelling checklist and some of our packets. I just think there's some great resources there. So if you're curious about this, please reach out and friends let's dive into this. Let's make this the norm that would create a more humane space and it's going to help our missions track trend and find more people. So thank you, Christy Kern for being such a light to us.
Thank you. This has been so great.
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