Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world. We're
here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an Impact Uprising.
So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. Can you like believe this is happening?
I mean, we are interviewing my crush today, like one of my non citizen is here on the podcast
sort of way, right. I mean, yeah, y'all. I mean, we started this podcast from basically my dining room table, right. And now to get to sit and hang out with one of the cofounders of global citizen, one of these organizations that feels larger than life that has staked a claim to envision a world free from extreme poverty. And they say now, because they are taking action and doing that, and they're moving a lot of money, moving a lot of activation. And we're talking to one of the co founders today, Michael Sheldrick, is with us on the podcast, he's got this incredible book that just came out from ideas to impact is this playbook for influencing and implementing change in a divided world? Anybody else feel like we need that right now? Especially the divided world part? Like how do we still show up? So let me tell you a little bit about Michael. He's the chief policy impact and governmental relations officer whose campaigns have led to over $35 billion distributed to this anti poverty and climate change policy efforts around the world. And so to get his playbook today, is really something that I think all of us are looking for, how can we thread in activism and action into our work? And he's going to come in today and talk about how do you take a successful visionary into not just making promises, but actually turning those into real world outcomes. And he's gonna kind of walk us through the playbook that he's figured out. But Michael is no stranger to working with some of the most incredible celebrities that really use their platforms to advance good. I mean, we're talking everyone from Beyonce to Coldplay, to Lady Gaga to Miley Cyrus and more, and really figuring out how do you catalyze that platform into meaningful action, it ties into the theme we're talking about this year that media skills impact, and Michael really understands that. So I got to read a quote, because we haven't ungettable guestlist around the we're for good podcast. And Jane Goodall has been on my great ungrateful get list from the very beginning. But listen to what Jane said about this book that Michael wrote, because I think it's just so powerful, from ideas to impact gives us reason for hope. It proves change can happen when we begin dialogues with those whose actions we may not like. It demonstrates how others have made a difference and how you can make a difference to your this is the kind of conversation we all need in this moment in our communities, to really spread the Impact Uprising that we talked about Michael, huge honor to have you on the podcast. Welcome to the show.
Well, thanks for having me, Jon, Becky. It's a huge privilege and an honor to be on your podcast. I know you've interviewed many of my friends, and so many great people in the nonprofit sector and social impact space. So really excited to sit down with you today.
Sure, absolutely.
And I wish I had the validation of Jane Goodall and my life.
I think she Yeah, I feel I feel she's with us
totally. And happy late 90th. Birthday, Jane. It's such.
It's amazing. We did a campaign for April third, her 90th birthday, where we ask global citizens to send in messages of support. But what is extraordinary about her as I think she travels 300 days a year, yes. And she's seen so much. And for many people who have seen that much it might be leaving them with in the depths of despair. But she always has this innate sense of hope. And that's because she knows there's so much to still fight for and win for and she just has such an innate belief in, in, I guess, in our power as individuals to make change. But yeah, boy, I hate when I'm 90 years old. That travel schedule, amazingly.
Well, I mean, on our show, we love storytelling. We love connecting the dots of like, how did you get to this place that you're at today? So when if you take us back, Michael, tell us a little bit about your formative experiences either growing up or things that led you to Global Citizen the work you're doing today.
Well, thanks, Jon. Look, I you know, really began life you know, in one of the most isolated cities in the world, Perth, Western Australia. And one thing that Australians love is sport, right? But if you're not great at sport like me, which is almost like blasphemy not to be good at sport. It can be it can be a challenge, and it can then you add on the fact that I wasn't really good at anything at school. So I also got through primary school, got into high school, I was bottom of my class. I wasn't great. academics. In fact, I remember a teacher overhearing teacher saying that I probably wouldn't get through high school, let alone get into college, university school. All of those things, right. And one day, in my first year of high school, I still remember this moment, we walked into the classroom. And we could write an in class essay on a movie that had just come out. And you guys probably remember the movie gladiator with Russell Crowe. Oh, yeah, whatever
reason I have your soundtrack. It's It's gold. Exactly.
And for whatever reason, I just loved Roman gladiators. Don't ask me why, but I just wrote this essay. I was like, okay, just put my heart and soul didn't think anything of it got home. And I still remember my mom had this strange look on her face. Because after years of being told, Michael was stupid, lazy, isn't gonna amount to anything. There was message machine on the message machine. There was a voicemail for my year a teacher, Mr. Peter Byrne. And when something's like this Hi, Mr. Shipp, Mrs. Sheldrick, I've noticed a change in my core. Can you give me a call back? And I thought, well, that is a creepy kind of strange message like what have I done wrong? And what the message was to my mom was basically and the reason why she had this confused look in her eye was basically saying somehow I had taught the class. So going to school the next day, Mr. Bern, first time anyone really said this to me, I think there's more to you than meets Di. You may not believe it yourself. But I think you can be more than what you are. And I just made a pledge with him that I would commit to work with him day in day out for the rest of semester, I thought, well, I may not believe in myself. But here's someone who does. So I'm going to work. And sure enough last day of school, before I've even arrived at scores, sat on my lounge suite up, close this car, Mr. Byrne jumps out. And he said I was just crunching the numbers, and was driving past and in a very Australian way, walked up to me outstretched his hand and said, Well done me and gave me a certificate with a number one on, right. So suddenly, four years later, I am graduating high school, top of the class in the top 1% of the state getting into law school, suddenly, people are like, Wow, you're so smart. You've done all these things like great. And I never felt that way. Because I still remembered like what it was to feel like being that kid at the start of high school that everyone thought was stupid, lazy, dumb, wasn't gonna amount to anything. And I was so grateful for the difference that one teacher made in my life. And the reason I tell that story is I guess it was out of that awareness and recognition and gratitude for the opportunities I had. And as I got into university, realizing that there's millions of children around the world, who have so much talent potential, but because they maybe lack access to great teachers, or maybe they the kind of stupid poverty where it means an adolescent girl has to drop out of high school because when she hits puberty, doesn't have access to sanitary pads and napkins or whatever the injustice is. There are so many barriers, why kids won't achieve their potential. And I thought that's what I want to do. And so what did I do? Like, well, many people who get involved in this space, I turned to charity, right? And, you know, one superpower I had was I was very good at asking for free stuff. So I go around I go around my all
have that friend. Yeah.
I mean, I am I am my sister says I'm shameless in this regard. I'm always think like, put the ask you never know. It's probably why I'm on your podcast, to be honest. But but so I go around the shopping center, and McDonald's, the equivalent of Starbucks in Australia, whatever it is, I get all this free stuff, Happy Meal, vouchers, whatever, you name it. We do a quiz night at my old school. This was the first thing I really ever did we raise $1,000 to contribute to build a score in Papua New Guinea, just north of Australia. And then over my summers and winters, I had the opportunity to go to Bangladesh, India, Timor Leste. And you know, on the one hand, you'd be like, great, this is contributing to build a bricks and mortar, but then you would see the problem at large, it'd be like, Well hold on, who's paying teachers salaries 365 days a year, who's paying for meals on the on on on a daily basis, because for many of these kids, this is the only meal they would get and who's paying for like social protection or health care if these kids or their family gets sick. And then who's doing that across every single community across the country, and quickly realize that poverty cannot be solved through any amount of Gala night charity dinners or quiz nights. It's a 100 billion plus a year problem. It's a systemic issue that therefore requires systemic solutions. And I guess that's how I found my way to believe in in policy change and believing in different ways of effecting policy change. And that was really my own personal story to, I guess, meeting the co founder, the other co founders of global citizen it was really out of that that we need. We all need to be involved in, in policy change if we're to address issues like extreme poverty.
I mean, the whiplash of knowing that there's a global citizen founder in our house right now to hearing the story of you're never going to amount to anything. And I can assure you that there are people listening right now, who felt that way, who have children that feel that way right now. And it's not lost on me that in this movement that we see happening within our community, we call it Impact Uprising is everybody cares about something, everybody gets lit up about something. And if you can channel, whatever, you're good at it, you're if you're good at getting stuff, channel that getting stuff into whatever the cause is, because for those that lean into it, you have the ability to affect change on the level that global citizen has had. And I just look at your footprint, and I wasn't kidding. When I said, I've been such a fangirl for so long, it just, it just seems so wide and so big, this notion of poverty, and it's such something that I feel like people don't feel like they can get their arms around. However, it's not lost on me that today is Red Nose Day in the US, which is common that leaves us is, you know, concentrated campaign around taking on childhood poverty and their I love their thing to share. It's like less childhood poverty, more childhood, and it's like, the collectiveness of all of us giving what we have to give is how movements change. But I'm so glad you're coming in today. And I am so glad that you're putting your flag firmly in the ground, to talk about policy. And this is why we wanted to have you on today because there are so many nonprofits out there who are inherently operating in scarcity. That is our culture, we're scarce with just about everything, our mindsets, our resources, the way we look at how we hire from even like how we connect from marketing as mission. And so I want to talk about the power in policy and advocacy and why it's almost an injustice to the problems that we are trying to solve to not put some concentrated effort around this. So we're here for embracing this new era of effective sustainable change. And policy just seems to be this often overlooked, untapped element of the impact and nonprofit world. So set some tone for us. Why this book? Why this this particular issue? And why now?
Well, I think you know, and you're right, there are many ways individuals can make change, right? One can donate to charity, one can volunteer their time, maybe it's planting trees, or volunteering in soup kitchens, if you're in the US and looking for ways to rally people to register to vote. And one can also have conversations as well. And we shouldn't discount the power of having conversations. One of my heroes is Katharine Hayhoe who wrote the book saving us. And she talks about the power of conversations with our friends and family when when we're trying to move people on the issue of climate change. And believe it or not, any, I think 8% of US households will even talk about climate change in a year. But rarely, rarely does the idea of policy change come to mind right, as an area in which we can affect change as individuals. And there's a couple of reasons for that. I think the first is policy, we tend to think this is the purview of governments. Secondly, just the word policy, it seems so abstract, so aloof, right? When in actual fact, policy changes is about human beings. And it's about human beings. In terms of that impact. It's about whether or not people get a meal day, in day out. It's whether or not girls have to drop out of school when they hit puberty. It's whether or not communities which are shifting from coal to renewable are actually able to survive, keep their identity and keep workers haven't livelihoods and having jobs. And it's about communities on the frontlines of climate change. But policy isn't just about the people who face the impacts. It's also about the people who are involved in influencing and shaping them. And one thing, you know, I've been finding again and again throughout the 1015 years I've been involved in global citizen and beyond is that anyone can affect policy change. And yes, of course, that you can be a cultural icon like Taylor Swift, if you want to be involved in policy change. You can be a business leader, but you can also be a citizen, right? Whether that's a high school student, a university student, and so the reason why I wrote that work as I would get people time and time again, reaching out to me coming to this awareness that policy change was the answer, whether it was at a local community, state, national or even global level, and one advice on how to run their campaign. And so the book doesn't profess to have all the answers. But it does outline eight steps of what I call policy entrepreneurship. And it's to give people a start on where to begin if they want to begin to affect change, because I genuinely believe if you can get people on that journey, and they start to see the impact, or the payoffs and it may be something as basic as getting that first meeting with a decision maker, getting a response, whatever it is, you know, Eleanor Roosevelt has this great saying, which I have on a magnet on my fridge, which says the best way to begin is to begin, and that that initial action can can, in itself fire off a chain of reaction that can spur momentum. And so that was really the heart of the book. And what I'm trying to do, and many people are waking up to effect and I think the pandemic Excel for many people, when you take the issue of climate change, people thought, wow, okay, in 2020, despite all of the lock downs, despite the fact many of us were locked in our home, that made I think, a 6% dent in global emissions per year. And people were like, Yeah, exactly. In some ways, it's big. In some ways. It's small, right? When we're not doing anything, you think about all the planes that went flying? And people said, well, if I just focus on changing my own behavior, that isn't enough, we need policy if we're going to shift our energy, industrial transport systems, away from carbon intensive economy, right. And that is policy. And so I find that more people actually yearning, and waking up to this recognition, but what they're lacking is how do they get involved? And that's really, you know, I hope what we're my book provides a bit of a roadmap. I
sure know, it's why we need your book, you know, yes, fact, you kind of just came into the through line of this season of the podcast, you know, we're more than 500 episodes into conversations, all post pandemic life of trying to figure out how to make an impact how to grow a movement. I can just save when we talk as a team about what we're seeing, and we talked about with our community, everyone's ready to go past just talking like people are ready for a shift. Like there's certainly a moment in time that's happening right here. And so I love that you just call this out and say it's time to move past empty talk. What are some of those characteristics? You know, as you look at leaders, visionaries that are bridging that gap between promises we talked about and actually outcomes.
Yeah, so in the in the book I, I defined this idea of a policy entrepreneur, which which isn't my term, by the way, how I fund story, how I actually came across, it was what last year of university when we were figuring out, okay, how to turn Global Citizen into an organization. Before that, we were student activists that kind of started organically leveraging the power of social media popular culture, when we were trying to apply for grants and turn it into this bigger organization. We had no idea if we were going to be successful or not. And so my backup option was, okay, well do I try to apply for postgrad. And there I was speaking to one of my university professors, writing an entrance essay and asking his advice, trying to explain the DNA of global citizen. And he turned around and said, You're basically a policy entrepreneur, right. And I net Fortunately, our grants came through and never had to go into postgrad. And the rest is, the rest is history. But that term policy entrepreneurship, when I was explaining the eight steps and outlining that that term stuck in the back of my mind, right. And really, I break that down into three types of leadership. One is the visionary one is the diplomat, and one is the implementer. And very quickly, I won't go into all the ins and outs. But just very briefly, to summarize, the visionary is someone who can identify a good policy goal to rally behind. And that might sound incredibly basic, right. But many of the people I noticed that would be coming to me for advice, had a very acute understanding of the problem, whether it was addressing illegal deforestation, removing plastics from the ocean, everyone could diagnose the problem. And they might have even had some resources in place, maybe funds to run a campaign. But you know, what I'm just talking about the problem, absent of a solution is just raising awareness of the problem. And over time, that can actually just lead to more people falling into the depths of despair into apathy and indifference. And so when we started Global Citizen, one of our core driving principles was actually to ban the phrase awareness raising And if we ever found ourselves in a situation during a campaign that was focused on just raising awareness of the problem, we have to stop ourselves and say, Well, what actual impact are we driving towards? So in the book, I talk about how do I, where the good thing is, is good ideas come from anywhere. And every problem out there, the solutions already exists, right? So talk about how do you identify those solutions. And I also talked about the power of not being afraid to embrace boldly, naively audacious goals. Because as we found when we were first starting Global Citizen, with our goal around ending extreme poverty is, you know, if you can put forward well thought out goal, policy goal and a solution, especially now, when people are yearning for solutions, they're really yearning for stories of how that itself can mobilize people enough to overcome access to power access to financing and any amount of implementation experience, right. And so you look at some of the goals out there that I talked about, you know, how you break that down, whether that's ending child mortality, or preventable child deaths, whether that's shifted away from fossil fuels, or even something, because basic as you know, one of the campaigns I look at is how to double the consumption of beans over the next four years, and how to go about that. And the policies involved. The diplomat, the diplomat is probably the most crucial in terms of our era of this era of division, right? Because it's a recognition that change involves engaging with people we 100% don't like or agree with all of the time. And the reason why that's so important is I do fear. Now, in the age of polarization, we find ourselves in the age of tribalism, we often feel this intense pressure, often from people we would identify as our own tribes, to say, No, to engage in with an idea, a person or an organization, if it doesn't ladder up to the full, pure vision of what what we intend, right? And, exactly, and a good diplomat really is a good coalition builder. And in the book, you know, one example I talk about, I went and interviewed some of the people involved in the passage of the inflation Reduction Act, and why it was they were able to bring, arguably the most diverse coalition ever amounted in in the environmental movement in the US together. And that was after decades of a bunch of infighting. And I talked about how they overcame that, and how they leverage the strength of others. And I think that is probably most relevant to where we find ourselves today. And then the final type, I talked about the implementer. And this is if you like, the less sexy, the less gret glamorous if you've been to a Global Citizen Festival on the Great Lawn of Central Park, and we'll be hosting that again,
talking about this, she lives very close a couple blocks from Central Park. So
September 28, this year, you have to take action, we'll be announcing that soon. But anyone can take action, go ahead and draw come along. But everyone will know that on our stage, we're known for business leaders, governments responding to the actions of global citizens getting up there and making big bold pledges, right, basically promises. But as you said, how do you turn talk into action? How do you turn ideas into impact? How do you ensure you land the plane, and that is the role of the implementer. And that is the role of accountability, citizen led accountability to ensure delivery. And that's a 365 day process. It's why Global Citizen were able to handle heart, say, up to 33 million citizen actions has been taken over the last decade or more. That's how in connection with our partners distribute the $40 billion that has helped impact or improve the lives of more than a billion people. And there are promises out there that haven't been met. But what we're interested in is when the rubber hits the road, when the money is all said and done distributed. What is the actual impact of that? And that's the role of the the implementer. Okay,
I have so many thoughts I want to share in response to that. But number one is how in the world could anyone think that Michael is not brilliant? Like where is that teacher? We need to find her because what you just outlined is so raw, it is so real. And to me, it's really tenable. This is like here for the taking and wherever you're listening to this episode. There are ways to activate that in your own community. In fact, that is what we want you to do. We want you to start you know at home and start with what you can give and I want to thank you, Michael, for telling us that policy isn't just about walking up to Capitol Hill. In talking to your elected official, which is what I think a lot of people get in their mind about, if I'm going to get active in this advocacy, I'm going to have to get bold and fearless about going and activating it. And I think that you just dispelled that beautifully. And you did it in such a human way where it can work for anyone if you want to be an implementer, because that's your passion. And you understand how to get someone from big idea to activation do that if you want to be somebody who's disrupting and can be a part of being maybe a diplomat, I just think there's lanes for everybody. And I think maybe a couple people may fall into a couple different lanes. But the thing that I love the most is tethering the policy goals and solutions together, and having the one that talks about the issue. And then talking about how we're going to do it, we're an activating community, here We Are For Good, we don't want to just talk we want to do we want to socialize, we want to be the change. So I just think that the book gives us this playbook for how to affect that change. And we want to move behind just talking about things. And so break this down for the listeners, like I want to double click on the action and how people can really start to lean in to getting activated.
So I think one of the one of the key tenants that really drives throughout the book is this element of pragmatism, right? Which, which can seem like a dirty word, especially now. But pragmatism when I always point out to people, pragmatism isn't the same as incremental ism, right? And when you use the word pragmatism, people think, Oh, does that mean you're going for a more moderate solution? Does that mean you're going for the low hanging fruit, and a tenant of all of the campaign's and I share case studies in the book of cold communities, in in Australia that are transitioning in a way that brings workers along, I talked about period, poverty activists in South Africa, like I, I list a couple of examples. But one of the core tenants is when they were selecting their vision and their policy goal, they had a clear focus. And what pragmatism allows you to do is recognize, in the words of Prime Minister Mia Motley Prime Minister of Barbados, where I am right now, and who I profiled in, in in the book and some of the campaign she's led, I always remember her address and a group of people at the UN, just over a year ago, everyone's like, we need to put a tax on this, we need to call for this. Everyone was for that a grab bag of solutions. And she said, my friends, simplicity gets us to the end. Soon as we ask for everything out once the game is up, we are finished. And so pragmatism is about saying, what are we going to focus on here and now and there are moments a time when, because of time and because of opportunities. You know, and I've seen people get into a meet and you say in the book 90% of change is about showing up. But then with that last 10%, it's what you do when you show up, right? You get in the room, personally trying to influence and I've seen even the most outstanding nonprofit leaders in the world flunk it, because they go in, and they just give a litany of Excel example a sample data point fact, every single ask, right, and you can see the person opposite them, their eyes glazed over. And they're like walking out and they're about to say to our staff, who are the let me in with that person, make sure that person doesn't get near death. Right. And it's like, that's not the goal. The goal is, is how do you build a relationship? How do you get the next meeting? And how do you focus on moving an agenda forward? Right. And, and again, that doesn't mean going for the low hanging fruit. Sometimes that pragmatism can actually be meeting about, okay, having like what might be seeing as a radical goal, right, such as getting away from fossil fuels completely. But saying, okay, maybe what we should be calling for is less than ideal means to achieve that. And one of the examples I've given in the book is, you know, in the same way that we bailed out the banks during, during the global financial crisis to save the economy, do we need to, and this is controversial, but like, if we're really in a race against time on climate change, do we need to bail out fossil fuel states or economies or companies if we're to rapidly move away from fossil fuels, right? Because we don't we don't have time to waste and so I use pragmatism, sometimes it's actually saying like, if we really serious what is you know, we talk about utopia, right, which is fanciful and doesn't exist, and a word I came along when I was researching for the book was hot topia, what is the most optimum outcome and then as efficient way to get there that we can pursue right now. And so you know, these are these are tough conversations to grapple with. But by and large, every single example of success I looked at when policy was changed, that impacted lives involved these sorts of conversations.
I mean, it just makes so much sense. And I'm for you creating more words that align with this. So that's a really great place to go. So here's the thing, like, I think I really resonated with a three line of this conversation that like, we cannot do these things alone, like, we need to figure out ways to lock arms, what we call lock arms for impact. And that means figuring out how to collaborate how to cooperate with people that we don't disagree, or that we don't agree with on some maybe seismic or bigger topics, how do you navigate that in such a divisive time?
So I often ask people, and since writing the book, it's been one of the fun parts about this book is speaking to so many people and having these conversations and hearing where they're at in their journeys. But one of the things I often ask people is, have you identified your own value add, like, but for your involvement, what will be different on this issue. And the reason why I say that is at global citizen when we were establishing it, we were always conscious that there were many people out there working on programmatic change, like working in communities, community workers, and others doing the hard work of development. And we were always clear that we weren't going to try and be a programmatic organization, we were always clear about our value, add our strength was how we mainstream these issues, get them beyond, you know, the converted, you could say, into the broader society, and give people in broader society a way to take action on these issues. And that quickly led us to using the power of popular culture, because we recognized that most people, you know, there are a few saints out there, who are willing to dedicate their lives selflessly to these issues. But most people don't live in a vacuum, right? They love sport, they love music, they have all these interests. And so our view is let's meet people where they're at. And that was the power of the platform we built. And that's what we've been focused on, on building ever since. And where I came to the awareness of why this was so important, not just for us, but this whole idea of starting out on what is the value add, right, and then you can figure the best way on where you can plug in and partner with others. And also, what areas of weaknesses or shortfalls or gaps where you need others to come in, is I remember this moment, it was just after the pandemic, when people were it was during the pandemic when people were starting to gather. But I was in Glasgow for the 2021 UN climate talks. 1000s of people were lined up and I remember being in line, and there was these two activists in front of me that got into this debate with one another. And one of them said, Yeah, it's crazy. What we're doing here never said, What do you mean? I said, Well, we're all lined up. And we're all competing with one another. For the same panel slots, same media interviews, the same audiences, right. And meanwhile, over there, the decision makers are like in any form of accountability. And sure enough, once you eventually got into this convention hall, it was like side of an after side of it. And we've hardly no people in the audience. For each of these events. I remember speaking on one panel, and there was two people in the in the audience. And the other person responded to that. And they said, You know what, that's why we have to build either build our own platforms to engage new audiences, right to add value, or we need to find ways to engage audiences that aren't in that space, whether it's going to exist in community groups like Rotary Clubs, or going to communities on social media. And so in the book, I outline all of the different ways in which partnerships can be complimentary. And by the way, I put Philanthropy In, in this in this category as well, because I think often fill out Well, I think, I think philanthropy has started to accept that systemic challenges require systemic solutions, right? And they've started to say we need to believe in systems change. But one of the trends I do sometimes see creeping in is philanthropic organizations say, and we have to be the ones influencing the agenda, right? So we're going to hire lobbyists, we're gonna hire PR firms, we're going to hire all this. And the reality is, is a that's not the way to build the most authentic engagement, right when you're trying to influence people in power, but also, there are so Many people out there, who are fantastic policy entrepreneurs, advocates, you know, activists who need that capacity who need to be invested in and who are ready to share their stories and be able to influence change. And so I challenge philanthropy as well in the book, just say, what what do you do well, and how do you invest in the capacity of others, and some are beginning to understand this, like, I take my hat off to the likes of Ford Foundation, and others that are starting to do this. But this is this is something which I think we all need to look at and say, Are we are we? Are we playing into our competitive advantage here? Are we trying to do too much when we could be partnering with others? So too? That's a long way to answer your question. But I think that's, you need to answer that before you can first build an effective coalition.
Okay, if I had the soundboard here, which I don't it's in front of Jon, I would hit the the applause, but because to me, that is it right there. And we've seen this so much within our organic community. And I think a lot of grassroots communities have probably also seen this issue, which is we are all fighting for scraps against each other at the bottom in a system and structure that is no longer serving us. And the exciting thing for us, at least in this space. And what we're seeing transcend is that there is this rejection, they're starting to become this rejection of this old way of thinking, this old way of working this old way of connecting this old way of fundraising. And instead of competing, we're doing exactly what Jon just said, which in what you also mentioned, which is locking arms for impact. And what if we go in together, we could have actually a bigger microphone, we could put our data together, we could put the amplification together, I think what grassroots movements are doing to totally usurp paid media to get into earn media. And I think global citizen is such a beautiful example of this, you came in through social media, you, you took on this pop culture element, and we were already there kind of digesting that content. But then we started to get educated, you know, when you use pop culture icons to sort of talk about things in a different way, your eyebrow quirks and you're like, wait a minute, I care about that, too. Wait a minute, I'm seeing that in my hometown. And so I think my point is, is, I believe what you just said is the way and of course yours was much more articulate. But it's like if we can gather and find each other. And if we could partner in unique and interesting ways. If we can flex the power of media, unearned media, I really believe that the movement becomes louder than the system, or the structure that we're sitting in. And we can make the case so much more strongly. So clearly, Michael, I'm drinking all of your Kool Aid. I just cannot wait to read this book. Because I do think it's going to create some mindset shifts. And I think you know, you just have so many great stories that you're lifting. And I can imagine, as you've walked through this work, you have seen incredible things come to pass the very big ones in the micro moments of random acts of kindness, and we celebrate story in this space. And I wonder if there's a story of generosity of philanthropy that has stuck with you that you'd be willing to share with us today that really changed? You
know, I, maybe it's always hard to pick a story, maybe maybe two brief stories, but just so one of the examples, you know, and it just it actually occurred to me, as we were talking earlier about, you know, what does policy actually mean at its core, if you were to define it, and one of the people who really articulated this to me in a profound way, as she saw it was Sabrina Alba, who she is her and her husband, Andrew Silva, who you might know a very kindly contributed the prologue all the foreword to the book. And suffering is also the chair of the European board. And so I found myself with the two of them in Sierra Leone in December 2019, just before the pandemic. And we were meeting I remember this one moment where we were meeting a group of female smallholder farmers, right, and they mainly produce everything they eat. And these farmers were talking to us about the impact a few years earlier of the Ebola outbreak in West Africa. When that disease struck many of these economies you know what, not only shut down, people left. Their many of their husbands is one woman we spoke to her husband, left and many organized nations internationally, also left. And there was one organization that stayed the International Fund for Agricultural Development. And I remember Sabrina Sana, that left an impact on her. And in her view, policy, good policy is about showing up and stand there and not leaving when everyone else leaves. That's the mark of good policy at its core. That's where you drive at home. And for their part, you know, inspired by it, because of course, they can contribute. And they have their own foundation, they launched in January, you knew all those other philanthropic gestures. But they also realized, okay, we can also raise our voice, we can bring these stories, we can meet with leaders, right? Whether that's President Macron, or others and get them to increase their contribution, in an order of magnitude, you're talking 10s of millions of dollars or euros in a way that any amount of a few $1,000 raised here, and now would be able to impact right. And so that that's one example of a story that just really struck home in terms of someone defining very clearly, but at its core, what is the benchmark of good policy? And what does that mean in human terms? Another story that hit me, you know, we were talking before about leveraging the strengths of others. But we also talked about the power of making the ask and how anyone can do that. And in this case, this is where I was the recipient of an ask. So 2018, we announced the Global Citizen Festival, Mandela 100 in Johannesburg, it was by far and probably is still one of our biggest events ever right and campaigns honoring the legacy of Nelson Mandela for what would have been as 100 birthday, arguably the greatest global citizen of all time. So there we are. We're bringing Beyonce, Jay Z, Ed Sheeran, Oprah Winfrey, all of the world's biggest names, right, we announced this campaign, and there are three hashtags that are trending. One is this Mandela 100. The other is, of course, Beyonce, as you would imagine. And then the third, yeah, go figure. The third is this hashtag called it's bloody time. And we double click on that we'll cruise that campaign coming from and it's these groups of advocates, who basically have a very clear idea of both the problem and the solution to that problem. Basically, around the world, 500 million women and girls still lack access to products. And you can say they live in period poverty, right. And in South Africa, for many girls, this can lead to them losing, I think, up to 60 days of school a year, because they can't afford something as basic as a tampon or sanitary pad or napkin. And yet, the solutions are twofold, right? But they were promoting these, these advocates who were saying first is that these products, period, products are often taxed as if they're luxury goods, right? So one is, is to yet drop the tax on these products. The other one is actually to make them free in in schools, particularly in poor neighborhoods. And, you know, they approached us and they said, Can you basically take this up as declaring core of this campaign? They reached out and that was the ask, right? And I think what's powerful there is, you know, never be afraid to ask someone else once you've figured out your value add and where that gap is, if you need amplify, or you need platform, because there are those platforms out there that will be all readily available to help, especially if it's a powerful idea. So we got behind us. And of course, you could see elements of the patriarchy stepping in people saying, in government, what are you doing, making this a big issue? This is not worthy of Mandela's legacy, haha, like all of us. But I still remember this issue becoming by far the most popular issue. We had hundreds of 1000s of people sending tweets, petitions, phone calls, I still remember them rocking into this one official slamming this petition down on the desk and the whole thing shaken. And then I still remember them agreeing to this. And literally, the president coming along that being this moment backstage where there was nothing in his speech. And then this moment of him saying you're gonna go out there be introduced by Oprah 100,000 People are expecting you to say something about period poverty, him committed on stage to do something about it. And then after that, that was in December 2018. I remember these advocates is one word that the implementer needs and that is tenacity, them chasing the budget, then bringing people together, then making sure that that promise was turned each year into budget allocations, even during the the pandemic. And the upshot of that when I went back and researching this book spoke to them is that 4 million girls have now had access to peer products that wouldn't Have had six years ago. And that's 4 million girls that may not have had to lose a day of school because they now have access. And by the way, one of these advocates took it upon herself. She's still in her mid 20s. But she's assumed a title South dub of being the Minister of menstruation, which I think that's very cool. So not only did she hijack us, but in the end, she said, Well, if no one else is going to play this role, I'm just going to create the government portfolio and step into it myself. But I love that story. Because, you know, it's making changes all about agency. And the best antidote to inaction is to take action whenever it's asking for how asking for support. And it starts by having a clear sense of the world as it should be and what you want to change. I
mean, yeah, yeah.
I mean, like, I'm doing the math. So I may have a decimal wrong, but it's like, that's 4 million girls. 60 days, you just saved 240 million days worth of school for these kids, which is, to me, transformational, like, that's looking at the data in a completely different way in thinking about what those girls could do in those 60 days is honestly mind boggling. And as a mom of daughters, like I absolutely love that story. Well, I
never thought about it like that. But you're right. And when you put it in those terms, you know, that that that's powerful in terms of the impact on society and economic development. It's funny, I might, I might say that these these girls are amazing, or young woman as I should say, they, they really are phenomenal. And I'm conscious next next, I think next Wednesday is the 28th. If I've got it right over 20 hours next week, that is menstrual equity day around the world. It's a day, which not enough people know about, but it's a day in which you know, we can address these issues. So I might, I might drop them that helpful to put it. That's a great way to show the impact of their, their advocacy and really policy entrepreneurship, bravo
to them, like what a call to action of like, know what you would say, and use your platform to advance that story. You know, because all of us have the sphere of influence. I love the collective impact that this conversation is like pointing me to. And Michael, as we start to round up, like I got to ask you for one good thing, like what's something that's bubbling up, it could be a mantra for your life or the way you see the world or something this conversation is stoked with the one good thing you leave our community with.
So as I was finishing the book, last year, I got a call from my mom who put me on FaceTime. My mum works as an aged care nurse in Australia. And she just admitted this resident who I had met years ago, when I was at high school, this resident was now 105 years old. And you know, he was just sharing his story. And this guy, Len was his name had been in France. When the Nazis overtake it overtook the country. He then made it to England, he found himself the lone soldier in a village rallying people when Nazi Nazis would parachute and above him running down, you know, pitchforks. And I remember I asked him, you know, as 105 year old veteran now in this home, I said, How did you maintain hope? Like, did you think it was all over? And I remember he said to me, said, in a very nonchalant way, he said, No. We said to ourselves, we're not running away. We haven't got much, but we're give it a go. We're not running away. We're give it a go. And I just think, today, we as individuals have far more than what Len would have had 80 or so years ago, to make an impact. We're sometimes drowned out by what we see in the media and on social media. But beneath the radar, these stories are occurring. Right. And so the question I'd like to leave with is, we're going to run away or are we going to give it a go because I think we shouldn't give up without first giving it a real go and change starts with each of us.
I want to give it a go. I believe in giving it a go. I believe there's so many out there who wants to give it a go. I mean, it reminds me of that quote from the damp a lot of dropped on this on his episode where he's like, once you know, you have to decide how you're going to make the next step. You know, you can't feign ignorance any longer once you know you have to give it a go. So such good words of advice, Michael, I like you so much. I'm so glad you're in the world. I'm so glad you've written this book. Like tell people how they can connect with you. Where can they go? book. Yeah, where do you hang out online? Yes,
I'm on most social media channels. You can get me on LinkedIn. Michael Sheldrick on Instagram Twitter threads. As at MC Sheldrick. You can also head to my website, which is michael.sheldrick.com forward slash book if you want to find out more. And if people really want to ask advice, you can shoot me an email at Michael at Michael sheldrick.com
Michael Sheldrick just gave you his email address. And I just want to say I know you're a new dad. And I just think what you're doing to make this world a little bit more beautiful, a little bit more healthy, for your daughter to roam is really an incredible thing. I hope she feels that she will someday.
And that's very kind. You know, I dedicated the book to her and also my grandma and that'd be hopefully Touchwood meeting each other for the first time. Next month and my grandma on what you were just saying about Dan's quote, she always had this way when we were worrying as kids she said you'd die if you were you die if you don't. So why worry focus on what you can change in the present focus on the action you can take now, which is I think something we could all do with, you know, hidden every now and again, in our daily lives,
cranny dropping the wisdom. What's her out? What's her name?
Her name is her name is Joyce grace. And
yeah, thanks for being an awesome human. Joyce,
you too will try not to worry too much granny Joyce. And this conversation, Michael, thanks for the work that you do in the spirit in which you shared so openly with us. Stay appreciate it. Keep going.
Thanks for having me, guys. Appreciate it. Thank you.
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