Welcome to the Trevor Turnbull show where you'll hear vulnerable, honest stories that will inspire you to embrace your mess, and live your best life.
Welcome to the show everyone. My guest today is Heather Wickman. So Heather and I got connected by a mutual friend who we talked about on the interview, somebody that's just an incredible connector who sees little pieces in people and says You two need to connect. There's a synergy here. And man, was there ever a synergy between Heather and I, when we first talked, so much so that I said, Geez, I wish we would have recorded that because the entire first conversation I had with her was worthy of a podcast interview that people would want to listen to. So we decided to actually officially flip on the recording and do this interview here. And just so you know, so Heather is somebody who comes from a corporate background, she was very successful in her corporate career. And then one day decided, this isn't for me, even though she was at the pinnacle of where she was trying to get to what she was trying to achieve in her career. And at a moment's notice, she called her husband and said, I'm going to quit this job. And she did. And so did her husband, and they went to Thailand. And they did the whole Eat, Pray Love thing, whatever that is, right. Obviously, we know what it is have seen the book, there's movie, all that kind of stuff. But she dove deep into following her intuition. And it's been a bumpy road along the along the way she even admitted it. But we talked about her experience in diving deep into that unknown space and experiencing plant medicine. And then having a very profound experience herself, which she dove deep into where she kept hearing a voice saying horse medicine, thank you for showing up. It's time. And it confused the hell out of her. And she had to really go deep to explore what does this actually mean. And this interview here today, she actually expressed that it was the first time that she's really completely owned who she is, she spoke her truth out loud, about the fact that she has experienced these plant medicines and that they have completely transformed her life and the way that she's she sees the world and the way that she shows up. And it's also led her down a path of working with horses and supporting other people to work with horses as well, to integrate these experiences that people have after going through Iowa daska treatments and experiences as well. So what a fun conversation that Heather is somebody that if you are ready to actually explore the truth inside of you, Heather could be that person to support you on that journey. And her story. And her her own personal experiences. is the first step of you discovering whether or not she is that person for you. So let's go ahead and give this one a listen.
All right, Heather Wickman. So nice to chat with you again. I know I enjoyed our last chats. And I was looking forward to this one as well. Nice to see you.
Good to see you as well. I'm excited to be here.
Yeah. And just so everybody knows Heather and I got connected through a mutual friend. I want to give them a quick shout out Mr. Charles Byrd, who I met like seven years ago. Actually, I'm interested in know how you met Charles too. But I met him like seven years ago. And he was that guy at the Digital Marketer trafficking conversion event that just had the sweetest Penthouse and the best parties and just a genuinely amazing person and a great connector. How did you guys ever get connected?
So it's a great little story. So I was connected to this groups called the Mavericks. And so they're a bunch of incredible entrepreneurs and trying to do good things for the world. And someone and I was talking about, you know, how do we build businesses through relationships, because that's kind of my natural way of being. And they're like, Oh, my God, you gotta meet Charles and get to know his work. And so that was the introduction. And, you know, it's been a beautiful kind of synergistic space. Very like minded and I've just appreciated his teachings and you know, his methodology and that's kind of the story.
Yeah, very similar. Except I think I might have just stumbled into his penthouse one night at the conference and thought, Who is this guy? What's he up to? But I do follow my intuition in the fact Yeah, every time he makes an introduction It's always a great conversation. And I just never know what direction it's going to go. And you and I had one of those chats can't even explain it. But that's why I thought, hey, let's hop on. And let's have a recorded conversation because I'd like other people to hear your story. I'd like them to hear what you're up to, and what drives you and all of the pieces that make that up. And you were gracious enough to say, let's do it. And how are we
doing? Exactly? Glad to be here?
Yes, absolutely. So really quick, before we get into some questions for you, too, and I get you to introduce yourself to everyone. There's a quote, that's right from day one of doing this, this show this podcast I've been saying out loud, and that is, it's a Brene, brown quote, she says, one day, you will tell your story of how you overcame what you went through, and it will become somebody else's Survival Guide. And that's is always just so grounding for every conversation, because I want I believe, it just opens the space for people to really speak the truth out loud, you know, and in all of its messy glory, and the mess then becomes the message and it serves other people. So I look forward to that deep dive with you as well. And really quickly, maybe why don't you just why don't you give the elevator pitch of who is Heather, and then I want to dive into a few very specific questions, and we'll see what direction we go, Oh,
God, you know, that's never an elevator pitch. But who is Heather, so an entrepreneur, a human, a lover, a dog, mom, wife, a daughter, all of those things. And so that's kind of who I am. But I started out in the corporate world, I had kind of a major crash in that space. I'm a huge fan of Brene. Brown, she calls it like her spiritual awakening, but I call it my corporate crisis. And same same, yeah, exactly. And then jumped out on my own about six years ago, and have been dabbling in a little bit of everything, from executive coaching, to culture work, to plant medicine, to horses, to all of these things. And the path has been very windy, and pretty darn messy, but you know, have been on this journey long enough to know that that's kind of the way it needs to be. And you know, just recently, I would say, have really come to this space of Homecoming. And our conversation was just so incredibly timely for that. And so, that's a little bit about who I am the brief elevator pitch, and I'll let you just kind of take it where you want to go.
Yeah, it's good. There's lots of places I can go with that. But I think the one thing that I want to really narrow in on and then see which way we kind of branch off is, you're the first person that I'm actually going to be talking to about Iosco, as well as the other aspects of these, you know, plant medicines, psychedelics, spiritual journey. You know, I've spoken a lot about spiritual awakening in the last like, eight, nine months, but I wouldn't say shied away from speaking about psychedelics, but certainly haven't said, Okay, let's go and talk to some people about this. Because, quite frankly, and I'll mention this just about the, on the mushroom side of things. So I had a gentleman that joined us for our men's retreat, who is the founder of a mushroom company. So functional mushrooms, they call them functional mushrooms, just non psychedelic, and then as well as the psilocybin. And I mentioned to him, I said, this makes me nervous. There's a part of me that's a little scared to do it. And at the same time, so curious to figure out how, what I can learn from this. And I know we had a great chat about that the last time we talked this whole idea of like control, but I wanted to say it out loud, upfront, because maybe a lot of people that will be watching this will maybe feel the same way that I do. Some might be like, Oh, Rocky, you'll get there. But what, let me actually start with that, then. So when with regards to the plant medicine, so you mentioned that you had a corporate career, six years ago, you took this leap? When did that start to become a part of your awareness and your journey and your experience?
Yeah. So it was six years ago, I was in this turbulent point in my career, just not really knowing what to do, but knowing it just felt wrong. Like, I couldn't go forward on this path anymore. And I was working with an executive coach at the time, and she's quite an intuitive coach, and we were going through a practice and a process and all sudden, she stopped in her tracks and she said, Oh, my God, you're my Ayahuasca girl. And I said, I'm your what? And she's like, you're my Ayahuasca girl. And I was like, I have no idea. What I ask is, so you're gonna have to explain to me and that was the start of this journey. And so like everyone, you know, I Googled Ayahuasca trying to figure out the spelling. Yeah, and figured out what it was and had the same reaction of like, Oh God, no, like, I am not the person that does psychedelics, I'm not the person that kind of, that's just not what I do. And the more research I did, the more I was like, I think I need to try this. I think this is probably what I need to kind of crack me open and kind of help steer me in the direction that I want to go. And so the universe does what the universe does. And I googled it and found this woman down in Mexico. We were down in Mexico at the time. And she came to our little beachside villa, and we had a great conversation for a day. And a month later, we flew back down and did our first Ayahuasca retreat.
And what was this corporate crisis, as you mentioned, you know, maybe just give us a little glimpse as to like, what, like, what caused this? What was that? Breaking Point?
Yeah, it was a massive identity crisis. So I grew up in Minnesota, and we talked about that a little bit. And it has a very, a very rich, like, at least I was brought up with, this is what success looked like. And, you know, success was like, you're gonna go to school, and you're going to be a banker, and you're going to, you know, climb the corporate ladder. I didn't take the banker route, but I did everything else. So, went to school, was working full time, got my graduate degree, went on to my doctoral degree, worked, worked, worked, and was quickly climbing the corporate ladder, I think it was 30. making way more money than I ever thought I would in the corporate world. And like, this is fantastic. This is success. And long story short, I was kind of offered what I thought was my dream job. So I was going to be the VP of towns and culture. And that's kind of everything that I thought I wanted to be. And I sat with it. And I was just like, miserable. Like, everyone was so excited around me. And I was like, I should be excited. Why do I feel so miserable? Like just this soul sucking? I can't do this. And we were my husband was moving out to California, because we had both been like, Okay, we're gonna do this, right. And I called him one morning, I was out in California. I'm like, you know, Dave, I'm gonna resign today. Wow, me. He's like, you're, you're what? You're like, yeah. I'm gonna resign today. So I ended up resigning from my job, which catalyzed him to do the same. So he resigned from his corporate job, we sold everything we owned, and went to Thailand for three months and kind of did the Eat, Pray, Love to figure out who we are, and came back and then our plant medicine journeys began. Wow, yeah. I wonder
how many people that are listening to this, they'll be able to resonate with that. And the key thing that I heard from that too, because I actually just while listened to the book, the surrender experiment by Michael singer, love it, yeah. Which is just filled full of that, like surrender, let it go, just like completely just let the universe guide you. And that is not something that most people do in this world. And I think that's the shift that we're seeing though, too, which is why I thought it was important to have this conversation with you too, just because, you know, my background in the corporate world, myself, and as an entrepreneur, and then a trainer and a coach and a mentor has been to bring a lot of those types of people into my world that really identify based on their title, or the success of their business. And, and I've witnessed it, I've witnessed a lot of people hit that point where it's like, surrender, it's right in front of you, you you have this opportunity to go that direction. But yet they don't. And I guess the question I would have for you, too, is then so you quit this job. You go to Thailand, which is amazing. By the way, I've been there twice. I love Thailand. And then you start exploring the plant medicines. So you're down in Mexico, you go down to that first experience and tell everybody how many times you've actually done this now as well, man.
So I've sat with several different medicines, but I lost it. It's gotta be 15 Plus, you kind of lose track.
It's quite a few. Yeah. Yeah.
But, you know, speaking to the control parts. And I think, for a lot of us that are programmed in the success pathway of like, this is what it should look like, and I can make it happen and I can manifest this and I can force this I'll tell you my first ceremony or my first retreat with Ayahuasca, it's three ceremonies over the course of seven days. And I fought the medicine all three ceremonies, like I couldn't get through my mind. until the last ceremony when the Shaman was like, You need to pretend like you're going to sleep. And that was the trick for my mind to be able to relax enough to let go of control enough to be able to kind of move into the medicine. And not most people do not have that experience. But I share that from the perspective of like, you know, when we're so used to not surrendering, plant medicine requires that we surrender.
Otherwise, it becomes our worst nightmare. At least that's what my brain is telling me that it would become anyways. And every time I said that out loud, people that have been there say, yeah, pretty much. Yeah,
it's it's, it's not real fun when you find it. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And as you've gone on this journey yourself, personally, obviously, you've had many different types of experiences. But you've also evolved to the to the place where you now support other people in going down this path as well. And maybe speak to that, and what that like, when did you start advising or creating these personalized guided experiences for people to have the same type of experiences you? And then ultimately, which will lead us to like what you're doing right now as well?
Yeah. So probably, we pivoted to from kind of the traditional coaching model to this idea of, you need a peak experience to really accelerate your growth about a year, year and a half ago, and was facilitating the retreats ourselves for a while, and bringing in really reputable and credible shamans that we had worked with. And then we quickly quickly realized that there's a better model, where we partner with these retreat facilities and send our clients to them. And so they work with the medicine and the shaman for a week, and then we come back and support them through integration. So it's been kind of a learning curve for us. But it happened because it's been the greatest medicine for us in terms of our own growth and evolution. And then some of our clients were like, well, what are you doing? Like something is shifting pretty dramatically in terms of how you're showing up in the world? And we want some, so what is it? And so it was kind of a slow unfolding of, you know, our own willingness to share what we're doing, because it is, it's not mainstream, and it's certainly not mainstream within you know, my current network.
Yeah. Maybe just sorry for dancing around here a little bit. But I got different questions coming to my mind, what typically, who is the person type of person that's that is working with you in this capacity and going and doing these experiences? And then, of course, continuing on and other ways working with you, too, which we'll dive into, but just paint a picture? Like, who is this person? Are they the high achieving corporate executive about to get the BP job and decide to quit before they do you? Entrepreneur at something in between?
Yeah, fine. It's maybe a little bit all of the above. And I know that's kind of cheating here. But it's oftentimes folks who resonate with my story. And so feel like oh, my gosh, I'm kind of in that similar situation. And I need some help here. But it's also that entrepreneur, who, potentially, like a client that we have is like, I just don't have passion in my business anymore. And I don't know what to do. I feel like I need to do something else. But this is my baby. What am I supposed to do with this? So it's kind of, I call it the fringy entrepreneurs, the fringy executives, the ones who are not like, completely mainstream are willing to kind of play on the edges of like, what else is possible here? And know that their growth is really the only avenue for their, their, their business in their organization to grow.
And when we talked last time, I asked you a question, because you mentioned that you've done this 15 ish times who's keeping track but naturally, my thought was, okay, 15 times I've heard so many stories from people where they say every single experience is completely different. You know, sometimes there's a lot of resistance and, and purging like physical purging and just like it hurts almost, and others where it's just a magical experience where you feel like you're on a different planet, and everything in between. And that the question I asked you was, what was the most profound experience that you had in all of these? different times, yeah, you want to maybe dive into that and just share with everybody what that was
fidgeting in my chair already. It's fantastic. You know, it's, yeah, I'm happy to share it. And I have like, such deep gratitude for plant medicines and feel like I almost owe my life. So before I get into the story, I had one of those experiences of the purging. And they do like a final call, like, you know, the window is closing when you can take your last dose of medicine. And I remember purging on my way to get the last dose of medicine. And the the voice in my head was this is for your life. And I was just like, blown away that I could be purging to get another dose of medicine, because this is for my life. That was the only reason I was going because I felt so miserable. And that's probably when I had my biggest breakthrough. And yeah, I don't, I don't necessarily recommend a second dose of medicine, but sometimes it's needed. Anyways, the most profound experiences, the one that led me to where I am today, and that is, I was in a medicine ceremony. And when I say I see things, it's not necessarily I'm seeing it with my eyes, you see things through kind of your mind's eye or your heart. And I was in this maloca, which is like, a ceremonial space in the jungle with a like, you know, a roof, but it's open air all around you. And there were 12 horses, standing at the outside of the maloca. And they're just looking at me, and looking at me and looking at me. And they say, we've been waiting for you. And I know I don't know why this always gets emotional. But it is from the perspective of like, you're trying to make sense of this in the moment. Have you been waiting for me? Like you're a bunch of horses? What am I? What are you waiting for, and the message kept on going, you have horse medicine, you have horse medicine, you have horse medicine all night, and my mind would in because you you are conscious enough to be present to what you're hearing and trying to make sense of it in the moment. And through this ceremony, I'm just in like, you guys got the wrong person, I don't have a clue what you're talking about. Like, I have horse medicine, I have horse medicine, okay, all these horses just like so present. We've been waiting for you and almost feeling like this guilt of like, should I should I know something that I don't know, and feeling kind of baffled by this whole scenario. And this one on the whole ceremony. Like, this was my ceremony of seeing these horses in such a vivid detail, seeing them kind of breathe in on me and kind of move around and move around and continuing to say you have horse medicine and came out of that medicine journey. So confused. So confused, because, you know, I'm I'm just out of this corporate career. You know, I had horses growing up my entire life, and my horse passed away when I was 21. And that piece of me died. I hadn't touched a horse for 10 years.
And so I got home, I'm like, What the hell is horse? And so I start Googling, like, am I supposed to be a vet because I thought about being a vet when I was a little kid and long story short, I you have to kind of feel into these messages because they're, they're not literal. They're more metaphorical. Right? And so finally found a Native American mentioned to horse medicine as in working with horses for healing, for clarity for guidance, and that's hit me like a, like a bolt of lightning. And I was like, Oh my God. That is what my horse did. My whole life, you know, provided that groundedness that clarity, that guidance that you need when you grow up, and especially, you know, in kind of tough situations at times. And so I ended up finding someone to study with and so did a year and a half apprenticeship in equine facilitated coaching and then have done some additional training with some folks in the Native American world and now do horse assisted integration. And so folks who work with us in do these growth intensives they have an opportunity to spend a week with plant medicine. And then they have an opportunity to spend three days with us here at the ranch, working with the horses after their peak experience to really integrate their revelations, their clarity, whatever it comes up for them. And I'm finding more and more than these horses are just incredible. Walking shamans for lack of a better word in terms of the way in which they're oriented to the world, they have kind of two feet in one dimension and two feet here on our dimension and are able to help us decipher and make sense of a lot of things that human to humans we can't do. And so that continues to be the most profound experience I've had.
Wow, yeah, I had so many questions after we talked last time. And now we're here. So I'm glad I get to follow up on a couple of things. But thank you for sharing that. The first thing that comes to mind, and again, I'll just speak from my own perspective is, so I have this curiosity about exploring plant medicines for the sole purpose of just accessing a higher version of self finding more clarity in what my purpose is, why am I here? What am I supposed to be doing? You know? And oh, wait a second, that's wrong question. You're not supposed to do anything you're supposed to be? You know what I mean? Like, it's all these human questions that we have around. Why are we here? What What am I supposed to? What am I here for? And there is that that first part that I mentioned, where there's a bit of a unknown and a wanting to control and therefore that's kind of the first barrier to kind of break through for me, I know. But then the second one that comes up is, what if what I experience is something that sends me down a path that I just, I have no idea how to actually integrate it using your words, you know, how do I integrate this into the the reality that is this 3d world, because that's terrifying for me and for I'm sure many people that are going to be listening to this too. It's exciting and terrifying, because I feel like to describe it best that almost feels like I could go into a ceremony and come out and forget everything that ever was about me up until that point. And there's a sadness almost to it, and an excitement. So it's a weird space to be in is. So I don't even know if I have a question there. Aside from did you find that there was a bridge there in working with the horses and the work that you do with people outside of these experiences, the plant medicine experiences that help bridge that?
Yeah, I think you're exactly in a realistic space. And I'd love to just sell you on this idea that you know, plant medicine is going to be amazing. And you're going to have no, yeah, it's hard. It's hard work, because you're faced with parts of you that you don't want, and your shadows, and you do forget parts of who you are, because they no longer serve you and they're not needed anymore. And I've had several ceremonies where I come out really raw, and really vulnerable and really confused. And that's where the horses have been my teacher. And so they've supported me 100 times over to where the point now that I can work with them to support others. And so this is where I always say like, you know, growth is a team sport. And to never think that you need to do it alone, especially when you come out of a ceremony and the shamans and the couldn't there's always say the plant medicine gives you what you need, not what you want. And that's super, super true. You may want, you know, to feel more of your sole purpose, you may want to see clarity of your next. But what you may need is to face a shadow face a limiting belief, face an archetype that's been holding you back before you can move into that next space. And sometimes that's just really, really hard. And I mean, a lot of individuals speak to that, as you know, the the ego disillusion, you know, and you've probably experienced some of that already. And that can be really jarring. And I think the answer your question, there is support on integration on the other end to make sure that it doesn't just leave you there.
Yeah. You mentioned the ego. That is one of the things that I think the most important lesson that I've learned in the last couple of months, I would say is just this idea of wanting to completely dissolve the ego and then recognizing like, No, it doesn't work like that. It never actually goes away. It's always there. It's just you know, how do we dance with it in a way that allows us to recognize when that ego is showing up and then choose a different path or choose to acknowledge it and go deep into that. That wound or that some, you know, limiting beliefs like you say, and, and redefine, you know, its identities. I talk about identities a lot. And I've spoken about it from my own perspective over the years and, and really reflected deeply on this and thought, Man, I can think of 25 self induced identities that I gave myself that at times when I didn't achieve the success that I thought that I should have. I immediately defaulted to well, that failed at that one. What's next? And what a horrible pattern to be in.
Oh, it's exhausting. It is. I mean, the, our previous conversation really catalyzed something profound, and I don't say that lightly. I, this identity for that I'm now moving into have been kind of working in this integration space with horses is one that I would have never ever dreamed of in the whole wide world, and have been really hesitant to put this out into my space into my network into my, because I've held this belief that, well, God, if my current clients know that I'm playing with plant medicine and working with horses, they're gonna think I'm an absolute lunatic, right? Or, I've had a friend that says, Well, what you're doing isn't actually medicine, you know, it's not going to heal anything. You know. And so I've held on to some of these beliefs and, and those are the things that had to dissolve for me to be here with you today and be like, let's just do this, let's share this.
I love that. I love that she said that, because that that was one of the things I mentioned to you on the last call that we had, that I have been trying to own myself even to was to be able to hold space and ask questions to people and allow them to express their true self out loud, their their truth, whatever that means to them. And not attaching to whatever the answer might be to because sometimes the answer comes back and I'm like, Whoa, I wasn't expecting that. But Okay, sounds good. And it's for the same reason that you just said, which is I have my own biases and beliefs and everything. And I'm a very cracked, you know, not cracked open person of like, Hey, I believe everything's possible now. So I don't think there's anything on the table that I think is insane or crazy anymore. Like I would like I would have though, like 18 months ago, I would have had judgments over certain things. And that's not to say that I don't still because there it's still there. Like there's still human elements of me that say, that is still very judgmental, in a lot of ways. But I love that you spoke to that allowed. And I think that the world is ready for this. And that's there are people that are actually seeking out what it is you're talking about without knowing that this was the thing that they were looking for kind of like the experience you had, right? It was he all of a sudden land in this area come out of that experience. And think well, now what like, you went to Google, obviously, to go and try and find some answers. But like, what do you do when something like that gets presented to you,
and I didn't have me then right? I wish I would have had the support system in that we provide folks now because you're navigating it all yourself. And you don't really realize the metaphorical versus literal nature of medicine at times. And you don't realize the practices of breath that can help you through really tough times. And the practices of sitting with the uncomfortable emotions to let them move and provide clarity on where to move next. You know, so many people that we talk with that do plant medicine experiences, just have these mind blowing experiences, and then they shove them all away, because they don't know what to do with them. And that's probably the biggest passion that I have right now is like, the plants are here to help us. I think the natural world is here to help us and help us heal. But we as humans need to help integrate that learning. And so we've now had a bunch of experience with that and found the horses to be incredible teachers in this space. And so feel really grateful and humbled to be able to provide this for our clients as well. Yeah,
it's amazing. My, my next question naturally kind of gravitates towards something else that we talked about the last time we chatted also, which is and you kind of alluded to it now, which is you know, you walk away from these experiences, and they're so profound and then you go back into your life wherever it is. And it's you might even push it down and go, Okay, well, that was amazing. But like, I don't know what I can even do with that, you know, I'm here I am back in Minneapolis and nobody around me does this kind of thing. But the people that I think of is like the ones closest to you even to family, spouses, kids, that type of thing. What was your husband's reaction to all of this as as you were going through these these experiences and journeys, or was he joining in with you as well?
Thank God He was joining in with me. So he has done, I think almost all of the journeys, I've done a few women's retreats where that's a totally different experience. But that is one of the biggest challenges, you come back to your intimate family if they don't know what you're moving through. And it's really hard to describe the shifts that you're going through. And so we we really provide that support immediately after, because you need someone to process with and oftentimes it's not going to be your spouse, it may be a good friend, that's like, I'm super curious about what you just experienced. Tell me about it. But other people are going to be like you are often crazy land. I don't know who you are. And so we say like, are your experiences really sacred? I mean, Brene, brown speaks of this, too, like your stories are super sacred, be careful with who you share them with. Because the last thing you want is like that friend who says, well, this isn't medicine, what you experienced isn't medicine, it can't heal anything. Like because then that just shuts everything down. And so, again, that team that growth is a team sport, like who do you have around you that can hold some space when you come back? To be able to kind of have some initial conversations? Yeah,
well, that's where I think the world really is changing. And maybe it was, it was always changing, I just happen to open the door. And instead of closing it right away, thinking like no, don't want to look at that I actually left it open a little bit and went on. Hmm, interesting. And we keep bringing up Brene Brown, but her latest book, braving the wilderness, really, in fact, it's the last chapter that that landed the most for me, where she describes like, visually describes walking through this, this, you know, this corridor with big tall buildings and stuff. And all of a sudden, there's this wilderness, and it's scary when you first look at it, because you're thinking I could die in there, you know, but then you take that first step in and you look and you see people that are just like living in their glory in their bliss, and dancing and loving life and all of these things. Do you think, Wow, I'm home, I found that. But just getting through all of that, to even get to that place, I think is is the most challenging piece of it. And and it's very raw, and it's, and it is scary. I've experienced it myself personally.
Yeah, I'd be super intrigued. What What about plant medicine intrigues you, because you say there's a curiosity and a fear.
What intrigues me is to just be able to explore even deeper beyond what I'm physically capable of, in my human form. Because that's been the journey for me in the last nine months or so is going from being one of those people you're talking about, which was, I create everything in my reality, and this is how it works. And let me go prove it to you and hustle, hustle, hustle, and like, you know, shape everything, to having guides and mentors, spiritual guides say, what if you tried slowing down? And I say, but that makes no sense. Like how could slowing down possibly actually helped me get to where I believe I think I want to go. And resistance resistance, resistance, resistance, resistance. And truthfully, just coming down here to Costa Rica, which is one of the things that we initially connected on, because I know some of your retreats are here and you've experienced this country. But I was preparing to get to this country. And to have the experience that I've had the last two weeks, which looks nothing like I thought it was going to look like just to be clear. It's has become massively disruptive. Everything around me has crumbled from physical health. My wife, my kids, me all got super sick when we landed here. business wise, a whole bunch of things that I was on the path to really lean into and commit to kind of crumbled around me. And there was a moment of like, how could this be happening? And then another of like, actually, this is pretty awesome. I'm so glad this freed up this space. But it's been hugely disruptive. And it's a long answer to your question, but I think it's to just access something that I know is there. I just can't there's no way I could possibly access it in my own human practices, meditation breathwork journaling even.
Yeah. Well, congratulations on all this to the inquiry. Ya know, I am always intrigued why people feel enticed to do it. And so thank you for sharing kind of that and I think it's amazing that things are crumbling, because that's usually a sign that the rebirth is right around the corner.
And I'll mention this too. The, the journey to get to this place didn't just happen overnight, like it didn't happen two weeks ago when we landed here, it's been a slow progression. But one of the pieces of it and maybe people can relate to this was, you know, I had the high achieving entrepreneur label for a good 10 years where I had success in the world of like, monetarily and influence and impact and that type of thing. And then I hit a point where I thought, There's got to be more to it than this, like, this just doesn't feel fulfilling, there's feels like there's an achiness, almost to the direction that I'm heading right now. And, and then I sought out mentors and guides that were just complete 180s From what everybody else was doing. And the people I was surrounded with at that time, were looking at me and thinking I was insane. They're like, what are you doing spending time with this person, let alone investing money in this person. When they are pivoting their direction, it seems every three months, like they seem unstable, almost. But there's a part of me that was drawn to her where I was like, I want to be that person, I want to be the person that just so is so trusting to my intuition that I go, nope, that's not working anymore. I'm gonna go over here. But that scares the shit out of people and scare the shit out of me too. And that's just an elaborated explanation of maybe what some other people might be feeling to, which is, I can't explain it. I it's just a gut feel. It's just a gut feel that I feel like it's the next step in my journey.
Right? And you mentioned Michael singer. So his first book, The Untethered Soul, is the book that I read in Thailand that now I have the company untethered. Right, so this is
the work that we're doing, then talk about that I was actually wondering that too. Yeah.
Because that book similarly touched me at such a deep level of like, oh, man, maybe we have to do everything the opposite of what I thought we did. So maybe it's not the hustle. Maybe it's not the climb, maybe it's not the financial success. Maybe it's something inside, like, what would happen if I took a moment to experience what was actually going inside and what maybe that was the first time in a long time I had access to intuition. When you slow down enough to actually listen to what's happening inside your gut, and what's happening inside your heart. But we bulldoze it with our drive.
Yeah, that was one of the hardest things for me to really acknowledge was that it was always there, right in front of me, I just chose to ignore it all the time. And I had a guide in the last nine months that would say to me, this thing that you desire, it already exists, it's just waiting for you to show up. And when I first heard that, I was like, Wait, what are you talking about? That makes no sense whatsoever. But it's so true.
Is that's like the perfect description of my experience with the horses like they've been waiting. Like, it took me what, 40 years to show up. Right? But it's just that long.
And that's another piece of the this whole puzzle, I guess he would say is that it was exactly how it was supposed to be as well, you had to go through all of these experiences. And again, that speaks to surrender, doesn't it? It's this idea of well, if I would have just done this differently back then well, you might be on a completely different trajectory, then you have no idea. Yeah, it's for gratefulness comes in.
Yeah, for the windy curvy pounds because they promised exactly where we're at even if it makes no sense.
Just a couple more questions for you one is so when I asked you that question, the last time we spoke and I know you it was emotional and it was again here right now too because it's very raw, right? It's you speaking the truth out loud and opening yourself up to all that will come to you the good and you know, the darkness and all of that. The the thing that comes to mind is you know what's the stopped you from actually owning that in the last say 18 months is
no more questions from you. I know you know, it's fear, it's fear, and that's the the blanket answer is fear, but it's more fear of rejection. Now that hurts when you say it out loud sometimes. But it's because I've been really successful in the other spaces that I played and jumping into a new space that is not well known. is considered by some you know wrong by some like witchcraft by some just straight up illegal but knowing it's my path like it there's such a paradox here because I am like the rule follower, I am the Minnesota Don't be big, don't be shiny, you know, kind of stay, stay quiet and get by. And so it's it's been a fear of what happens when I show myself and how is the world around me going to react. And part of our conversation last time was just like, like f it, it feels too good to be here to hide it. Like because the first time probably maybe authentically in my life that I know that I'm on the right path. And I say right, from a place of it feels whole. It feels it's not a financial drive. It's not a prestige drive. It's just I feel whole I feel like that I've come home finally. And so it was like just Goddamnit Get over yourself. So it's it's fear of, of others. And what solved it was just love for for myself.
That's beautiful. I love that last part of that answer in particular, because I can resonate. And I think other people listening to this, who maybe are on that same kind of tipping points have right at the edge of that cliff ready to jump, but then looking around to see who's watching me, is anybody looking at this right? Maybe they'll take that leap? You know, and I use that analogy because on this journey myself even to and trying to figure out like what is what am I doing here with this show slash podcast? Like what am I trying to accomplish with all of this? I think a big part of it is that that visual analogy of I want to step to the edge of a cliff with people and go hold my hand, let's jump off this thing. But let me do it with you. Because I know it's scary. Yeah, so I'll say out loud things that I've never talked about before too, because it goes, I totally resonate with what you're saying to have, like, you know, play small, don't do not buy the brand new car, just, you know, drive the used car, if that's such a prairie kind of mentality, right? But it's what we're raised with. And then we, we look at it and think like, oh, that's just how people are. It's like, no, that has literally been programmed into us since we were kids. And then for generations beyond that, too. Yeah. And I think there's two pieces to that though, too. One is I'm super proud of that background, though, too. I love the fact that my family and all of my ancestors. generations were hard working people that chose to brave it out in the freezing cold, and the scorching hot and the mosquitoes and all that kind of stuff. But I'm also grateful for the fact that I've chosen to now expand beyond that. And to come to a place where there's still mosquitoes much, many more bigger. But to just kind of open up beyond that way of thinking too. And money is a big one, right? Money is a big one. At least it has been for me. And I think some of that upbringing is part of that. Sounds like you've had, yeah, some experience of like, I should not be wealthier. And if I am I shouldn't certainly shouldn't show it. Yeah, there's a lot of shame when it comes to that. And we don't even know where it comes from until we really start to dig deep.
Yeah. And there's the flip side to that too, in terms of like, can you? Can you be good with money? You know, when you have money? Can you be good with the energy of money? And can you give and all those kinds of things. And so there's an incredible teaching of money within this path of unfolding to ourselves that I have found at least you find a lot of different nuances with money itself. Yeah.
I have two questions left for you. Because I have one that I always end with. But I have another one that just came to mind. So if you were to just speak right to the camera right now to a person that is looking for what it is that you have to offer them. What would you say to them?
I would say are you ready? And it feels super simple. But our conversations with everyone that I talked to at the end of the conversation, that's what I say I say well do you feel like you're ready and not ready from the place of your head but look for the answer below below that EQ. And that will always tell you if you're ready to go. And I, I often say like, you know, this, this journey is not for the meek or the soft willed, you know, this journey is for that, that soulful one in you that's ready to evolve and be all that you can be in this world. And it requires a bold step. And so are you ready?
Beautiful. Last question for you, Heather. Okay, what is the one thing you are most grateful for in this moment right now?
Oh, you. Dizzy? I really am. I mean, I know it sounds silly that a conversation can Shift. Shift worlds. But really our last conversation in the moment that you asked me a big personal question, and I just said it out loud. And maybe for the first time and to a stranger. I was like, Oh my God. Like, if I can say that to a stranger? Why not just share that with everyone I know. And I love right. And so I'm super grateful for you in your ability to sense into moments and your ability to sense into the ripeness of a question. And not everyone has that gift or the ability to hold that space once the answer is revealed. And so I am really grateful to have connected and continue to have conversations.
Wow, I was not expecting that. The humble prairie boy in me wants to deflect and go oh, yeah, it's all good. Don't worry about it. But that's, I do appreciate that means a lot. It's, it's something that I think that I've been resistant to owning myself even to but I've heard more than more than once, you know, and quite frankly, it's, it's so fulfilling to me to have people just share their truth aloud. And it can be a little bit of a spark to that light.
There are a lot of it. Yeah,
what else is there that to me is like the ultimate high it really is. So and it is one of the drivers to why I do this. Because I know that every time I have a conversation like this, and it's recorded, and I can put it out into the world, not only in the full format, but also will chop this up into pieces and feed it in front of people and to the attention that they're willing to, you know, give me and you right now, but the right person will see this. In fact, in the same context what we said before they've already heard it, they're just waiting for the actual physical interview to show up in front of them to go. I am ready, I am ready to reach out. So thank you so much for doing this. Please let everybody know how they can get in touch with you. So when they are saying I'm ready.
How do they? Yeah, you find us online at be untethered.co. Or send me a quick email at Heather at be untethered.co. And I can't wait to have a conversation.
Amazing. So I will link all that up. And Heather. This is conversation to have many that we will feature there's
no doubt about that. super grateful. Thank you so much.
Thanks so much for listening to this episode of The Trevor Turnbull show. I hope you enjoyed it. And if you did, please consider subscribing on my YouTube channel as well as on your favorite podcast platform. So until next time, remember today is a beautiful day of opportunity. Trust that you are exactly where you're supposed to be. So be grateful. Be curious and be brave.