S4 E1 Preparing Teachers for Special Education: Insights from Educators and Authors

11:42AM Apr 15, 2024

Speakers:

Tim Villegas

Aja McKee

Audri Gomez

Re Marzullo

Keywords:

disabilities

special education

disability studies

book

sped

common core

students

audrey

inclusive

disability rights movement

educators

special ed

taught

people

education

thinking

kids

legislation

podcast

individuals

Recording from far spoken studios in beautiful Marietta, Georgia. You are listening to the thinking cluesive podcast episode 12 brought to you by Brooks publishing company. I'm your host Tim Vegas. It has been a few months since we published a podcast interview here at the conclusive and there's a good reason. Since we've been expanding the website we have been upgrading our sound equipment and computer hardware. In addition, we are changing the format slightly so that hopefully, we can produce more podcasts for you to listen to. Today you will hear two edited interviews that I did from almost a year ago. First with Audrey Gomez in Asia McKee educators that have had experience in the classroom as well as in teacher training. They give a unique perspective on how we can prepare teachers were about to enter into the field of special education and also highlight what a degree in disability studies looks like. My second interview is with a middle school teacher who works here in the Atlanta metro area. Her book spared is about a fictional character Jack Parker, as he navigates the complexities of having learning disabilities in the eighth grade in being in special education. At the time of this interview, sped to which is Reese second book, had not come out yet, but is now on Amazon Kindle and in paperback. I'll have the links in the show notes page. I'll also tell you how you can hear the complete unedited versions of interviews at the end of the podcast. So without further ado, let's get to the thinking cluesive podcast. Thanks for listening.

Today on the thinking cluesive podcast, I have Audrey Gomez, and Asia McKee. Audrey Gomez has been in the field of special education since 2000. She has worked as a resource specialist and in self contained classrooms in the K 12 setting for the Newport Mesa Unified School District and she is currently an adjunct professor for the Department of Special Ed at Chapman University. Asia McKee has worked in early childhood in the early childhood field since 1996. She teaches early childhood special education for Capistrano Unified School District, and she is a certified special education advocate. She also works part time as an adjunct professor with Cal State University Fullerton in the special education department. Thank you both for being here, Audrey and Asia.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for having us.

Well, I'm excited to talk to both of you because I'm I'm California. I'm a California guy. I've been. And for those of you don't know, Newport Mesa and Capistrano are both in Orange County, California. And that's also kind of where my, my old stomping grounds are. So I used to work in Pasadena Unified. So I'm pretty familiar with how California runs their schools as far as special education. So I wanted to have you on because I know that you are a part of the Disability Studies program at at Chapman University. So before we can get into talking about disability studies and disability rights, either Audrey or Asia, could you one of you tell us a little bit about the Disability Studies program at Chapman?

Sure, we can do that. This is Asia. So the Disability Studies program it emphasizes and explores disability as a social construct. And it kind of investigates new ways to think about education and support people who learn differently,

since it is a fairly kind of a new thing, especially on the West Coast. Some of our some of the people listening may not even really know necessarily with Disability Studies. Like what exactly it is or what is taught the coursework? Is there a certain way to think about disability studies as far as why why it's really important, why why do you need disability studies?

All right, this is Audrey. So disability studies really challenges the way in which this disability is constructed in society. It looks at disability from a different standpoint. It's not so focused on the impairment. So if we look at what disability studies is not, it's not what we would consider as a medical model of disability. And where we are focused on on curing or fixing a child's because of their disability. So it's more of a progressive approach on how to look at disability. Right. And I, I've kind of described it before, as I think especially because it's fairly new and because it kind of intertwines in some ways and special education. A lot of people hear disability studies, and they think that we're learning about different types of disabilities, right, we're going to learn all about Down syndrome, we're going to learn all about autism and different things like that, when really, it's looking at the broad picture of disability itself. So not specific disabilities, but disability itself in general. And I kind of explain it to people as you know, we're looking broadly at disability as a social construct, which we can get into in more detail. And then within that view of disability, then you're looking at different things like the special education system and services. So it's more viewing disability, like I said, as a social construct, right? So how we view disability as a difference? And looking at things like are we disabling individual by not providing them with the support, or the environmental changes that they need to be accessing whatever they want to access in life. And typically, disability, we focus on the diagnosis of a person and the disability label. Whereas disability studies, were more focused on the strengths and the needs of the individual as defined by them, it seems,

it seems like this is in conjunction, or it kind of parallels the, like, the self advocacy movement. In my Am I thinking about that correctly? Like? In I'm not sure exactly what you know, when that necessarily started, you might have more information about that than I do. But this kind of change in thinking about disability instead of, you know, you know, the person who has, you know, cerebral palsy or autism, or however you want to whatever disability diagnosis that you have this change in thinking of that, you know, if only we were able to cure this, then they could leave, quote, unquote, normal life, like, like, how, how did we start changing from that view to, to what what disability studies is trying to promote?

Well, I think it really says, this is Adrienne came from, when we look at Brown versus Board of Education, and how that was such, that was a seminal courses for civil rights movement. And that not only changed the way people of color were treated within society, within schools, but that was eye opening for people with disabilities and wanting the same equal rights. And I think that's when the Rehabilitation Act was enacted in 73, that really brought an awareness to, to the idea of people with disabilities not being discriminated against, within the public sector. And I feel like it was a lot of from the Rehabilitation Act and a lots of protests, lots of advocates, such as Ed Roberts, who really wanted equal rights, and who wanted to be part of the community wanted to be part of the educational system and have the same rights as peers without disabilities. So they saw this seminal court case, such as Brown versus Board of Education, and and when these people started to obtain these rights, and through advocacy, and a lot of people with disabilities wanted those same rights.

Is there is there a particular court case that I guess defines the disability rights movement other than Brett Brown versus Board of Education? Or is that kind of the thing?

Yeah, there's not really a seminal court case that for the disability rights movement, but the Rehabilitation Act of five before really set the tone, because it allowed on the basis of There's legislation that guarantees that people with disabilities were provided civil rights. So that's kind of the other than that, and then a lot of other legislation stemmed off from that. So that was the precursor to like ADA, Americans Disabilities Act. And then from them, we've, through a lot of protests and strong advocacy, a lot of other discrimination specific laws came into place. So the disability rights movement was really right after Brown versus Board of Education, which was 54. And then the disability rights movement went started round in the 60s. And then after that, there were several court cases demanding equality, such as the Pennsylvania Association for Retarded Citizens, Park versus Commonwealth, and mills versus Board of Education, and those were in the 70s. And then we, and then we, you know, in 75, we had the maximum of Education for All Handicapped Children Act, which later you know, with Public Law 94 142, or IDE A, which is, which is what it is now. So, there was a lot of push among the disability community for equal rights. But there wasn't one court case, there was a combination of things going on at that time where people with disabilities sought out to obtain equal rights, which pushed a lot more legislation. And and in order to prove and to respond to these people, that they they were they should have this Yeah, have the same access. Right, right. I would disobeys I was just going to add to that, that, while this is kind of happening on the legislation side, running parallel to that would be a group of Special Education scholars and researchers that started to examine special education practices critically, I think, and meet together at different conferences and discuss looking at their area of expertise critically, and listening to the voices of individuals with disabilities, and hearing the stories about the push for individuals with disabilities to maybe overcome their disability and strive for normalcy. And listening to stories about hierarchy of disability. And I think that these scholars, they were looking very analytical and critically at their, their field of special ed and finding that there were some parts of special education that did maybe promote these ideas of thinking, right, so we assess to, and we decide that they don't fall within the normal, you know, the normal range, they fall outside the bell curve, and does this alone, promote, you know, individuals wanting to strive for things like normalcy. So I think as they began to, to look at the field, they kind of more into this. The base started to morph their ideas and their thoughts and their practices. In combination with the legislation and the movements going on in this disability study field emerged from that. So a lot of the professor's that we have here at Chapman and I believe a lot of the professor's across the United States that are disability studies, professors, were originally special education teachers and special education professors. And now they've moved into the field of disability studies.

So where do you think the I guess field of special education is going? And do you think that I believe that Ida is going to be reauthorized soon. And my Is that correct? Or no, am I? Right?

Well, we've heard that but I don't have any details on that. I wouldn't know to answer more about how or when that would be

okay. But I mean, it is going to it is what it will be, you know, probably in the next five, five years, I would imagine.

Yeah, I would imagine that would be so

it I guess where do you see where do you see special education going? And because we have a lot of things going on in in, in education. Right now. We have got we've got Common Core, you know, we also have of the redesign of our state testing. And then we also and that also includes the redesign of alternate assessment. It also includes this pairing or push for Universal Design for Learning. Right. And, and so I'm curious as to what you, you to think about the future of special education. And if there is going to be in, you know, in your opinion, going to need, if there'll need to be more legislation in the future.

So, you know, everyone's talking about inclusion right now. And what what it means to be included, for students with disabilities. And, and, and, because it's not everyone has their own definition of what inclusion means, right. And since inclusion is not written in the law, you know, everyone believes that to be something a little bit different. And I think that when we look at the law, and and we look at whether we're providing appropriate services, some of the language within the law can be unclear. And so sometimes the push or the movement towards inclusive practices is affected. And, but I really feel that if we are going to if we're going to go through with providing students with disabilities, to be educated, and their neighborhood schools alongside their peers without disabilities, we do need to look at making our current laws more clear. And, and we also need to make sure that we are properly training our general education teachers, so that they are able to provide the support and services for students with an array of disabilities within their classroom. I think we need to train our teachers, and Universal Design for Learning and, and having them understand that a unit one, a basic universal curriculum may not be appropriate for all of their students in the classrooms. And so they need to use different methods or measures in order to be able to make sure that their students have access to the curriculum, that it's appropriate and that they're successful in the classroom. So I feel like we are moving in the right direction towards inclusive practices. However, we still have a lot of steps that we need to take to ensure that students with disabilities are in classrooms and are learning and are members of the classroom community are appreciated, valued and valued members in the classrooms, and that they are able to be successful in the classroom.

Yeah, I was just going to add this is Asia. I was just going to add that as we look at the state of special education, I think it's important to look at different state requirements for credentialing programs. I mean, I think that special educators would be the natural choice for sort of helping students move forward advocating, of course for their students, pushing for civil rights for individuals with disabilities studies, special educators, you know, you were trained at Cal State Fullerton, we were both trained at Cal State Fullerton. And inclusion is a big part of their program, and they teach their teachers, they teach their special educators how to do that. I think there's been the big disconnect, as always, between universities and colleges, and then districts. And I think, you know, sometimes theory, in a sense is easier than the practical application of things. And I know that the districts here in Orange County are starting to move to a more inclusive schooling model. So we're starting to see some change, which is really exciting. But I do think like Audrey pointed out a big key is to train the general educators on how to work with the students that are in their class, you know, they have received training for, you know, in a different model than their training educators now, and they may have had one class that talks about special education or one, one class that talks about individuals with disabilities that they might lack The skills are the education and the knowledge to know how to move forward. And then even though a lot of the university programs do train special educators to co T to collaborate together, I still think that there's still an area that needs to be connected together, there's still a little bit of a disconnect. And, and I think that state requirements for credentialing programs also need to alter the way that they put together the requirements for the programs, I think asking different things as the educators, I'm looking more at inclusive practices from the very beginning and looking at individuals with disabilities, from maybe a DSP or disability studies and education point of view might help that it might lend to that, that need or desire that's out there. So I just think that it's a slow process, but it's getting there. So and I think with, like, for example, with Common Core and redesigning state testing, it's it's imperative that students with special needs are thought of during the implementation of these curriculums and assessments. And, and not just as an afterthought, sometimes, when we are starting to implement these common core units. Again, it just comes off as a universal curriculum. And so we need to make sure that we are embedding universal design for learning methods, and strategies. And we're providing these general education teachers with as much as sports and services, so within these within Common Core, so that students can be successful the same thing with redesigning state testing. And now it being a computer based assessment, as opposed to paper and pencil assessment, we need to ensure that our students with disabilities that this is an appropriate assessment for them. And so I feel like sometimes special education or, and students with special needs, sometimes an afterthought within implementation of these new measures and curriculums. And so when we're looking at how, the next step with being common corn and use these new designs, for state testing, we really need to be cognizant that we are that it's accessible for a variety of learners, even students without disabilities, for example, English language learners, are they going to be successful? And are we providing them with the same with the with enough supports and services that they can be successful with these new measures and measures and curriculum, and I just kind of touching on that this is Asia, but looking at common core and universal design for learning. There's some great work out there by justice to borrow I think is how you pronounce the last name. And he put out some information that looks at CCSS and UDL, and how to work towards those common core standards, using UDL. And I think that a lot of the things that we implement, you know, every couple of years, I think the pendulum swings in another direction for education in general. So I think just looking at how we approach these things, that rollout is really going to be a key. And as Audrey was saying, you know, even if you look at the Common Core website, there's a different page that you can go to that talks about students with disabilities and how to implement the Common Core within, which, to me doesn't look like they were in the forefront of the mind the forefront of the minds of the individuals that developed the Common Core, it kind of sends the message to being on a separate page not being part of the original framework of the Common Core, that maybe some of the students with disabilities were an afterthought. So I think that message alone, what does it say about disability in general? So I think just kind of examining it from another lens and going about what we need to implement and we need to do with different techniques and different strategies.

Stay tuned to the end of the podcast to learn how you can hear the complete and unedited version of my interview with Audrey and Asia. And now my interview with educator re Marzullo, author of sped and sped to on the phone with me I have read Marzullo. She is the author of two books sped and sped to thank you for joining me today. Ray.

Thank you so much for having me, Tim. I really appreciate it.

No problem. I have your book sped up And it's fascinating. And I want to share it with the thinking cluesive readers and listeners, and I wanted to have you on and talk to you a little bit about it. Because a lot of a lot of teachers, and a lot of parents visit the site. And sometimes special education is a very mysterious thing. We don't know, you know what it is, and what happens. And I think your book, your books share a good insight from the perspective of a student. So why don't you give us a little bit of a synopsis of the book that you wrote spared?

Well, the first book said is about Jack Parker, and he's an eighth grader, he has dyslexia. And he got through most of elementary school kind of making his way through, but didn't hit him in fourth or fifth grade, I need some help. So we got into this specialized program. And when he went to middle school, he was put in a small group class. And for sixth and seventh grade, that was fine. He dealt with it. But when he got to eighth grade, and he discovered girls, just like, Yo, where are the ladies? There's no girls in this class I want out. And so sped is really the story of how he tries to get his parents on board and get the administration on board, that he wants to be in the general ed population, not just him, but his special ed, small group classmates as well. So it's his journey trying to get through that.

Now, what was the inspiration for the book? What you know, why did you delve into this topic? Honestly,

I am done with a middle school teacher and I was trying to find a book for our book club. And Time Magazine, had a great recommendation Middle School novel, I read it, and I thought, Oh, my goodness, I can I can write a book. You know what I've always been, I was an English major, a journalism major, I've always loved to write. And once the idea of writing a book came to me, Jack Parker was at my door. Two minutes later, like he showed up, his little self, his voice, his mannerisms, everything. I've never taught Jack per se. But in 20 years, I've taught a lot of mini Jacks have taught have just taught a lot of kids. And all that just came out. And when I sit down to write, I hear, I hear His voice. I hear his classmates voices, I hear the voice voice, I hear the teachers voice. And so it's really been a great experience. For me, it's been a lot of fun.

No, are you involved with special ed teaching at all? Or you are just just a general a teacher or

No, I, I can teach. I have, gosh, for most of my career, I'll have a couple team taught classes. I've got honors classes I have on level classes, I really see the range of students in my day.

Now, how has your view of special education changed? In light of the the books?

Well, I think the first thing that writing these books has done, it helped me get rid of those labels that I had a tendency to put on kids. When I started the acronym, you know, ad HD, EB D, whatever the initials were, by that special ed students site, by their IEP or whatever. Writing this book to help me see through their eyes that you know what, we're all just people, we're all just kids. And one of the two really great things about the response to this book, were my gen ed kid, who wrote the book reviews book reports about how much they appreciated seeing the special ed students perspective that they'd normally thought about it. You know, that must be tough on him. It's tough when you're a general ed kids, so make it even more tough when you're when you're special, and you have difficulties. And then I think one of my favorite things, is when a special ed student, kids might be I don't even teach, come up and say thanks. You know, this is a character I could relate to, and that it's hard for me to find in the book, and they're just appreciated. So for me, it's, it's helped me see kids as kids again, without trying to put a label on them. And that's been really great.

Oh, that's, that's great. That's wonderful. Now, how is sped to different than then the first book?

Well, I cannot give away important details. Of course not. But it's different. It's different. It's just people, okay, and I've actually just gotten like the first 5000 words of summer spared so it's actually going to be a trilogy, Jack Parker will continue. And like I said, I have so much fun writing me, and I get a lot Got a gratification out of it at the end kids laughter funny or humorous book. I don't want to say there's lessons because that sounds very teacher ish. But adults, adults, I will say adults have enjoyed them a great deal as well as kids to eat them up. So, there's a little something for everybody, I think, great.

Why don't you tell us how you can how we can get the books?

Well, if you have a Kindle, you can absolutely get it on Amazon. Or you can order the paperback on Amazon. And if you are an iPad person iBooks carry some as well.

Excellent. Well, thank you for your time, Ray. I really appreciate it. And if you're listening, please go ahead and check out sped and sped to and we will all be waiting for some are spared.

We got a minute to wait on. I'm working on it. Thank you so much for having me, Kim, I really appreciate your question.

That concludes this edition of The think inclusive podcast. For more information about Audrey in Asia and what disability studies really mean. You can visit Chapman disability studies.com. For more information on Remar Zelos books, you can visit her website re marzullo.wordpress.com as well as download sped and sped to from Amazon. Remember, you can always find us on Twitter at think underscore inclusive or on the web at think inclusive.us Visit our sponsor at Brooks publishing.com and receive a 25% off your order using the promo code T I M be the 25. If you're interested in hearing unedited versions of the interview, become a thing inclusive Plus member today and download them from our members content area. Other benefits of membership include an online curated newsletter that includes inclusion related links from around the web. Access to the think inclusive archive, book excerpts and exclusive articles and coming later this year video modules and other resources from our sponsor and partner, kids included together specializing in providing Best Practices training to community based organizations who are committed to including children with and without disabilities. Use the promo code podcast to receive $10 off a yearly membership to think conclusive. Today's show was produced by far spoken recordings, talking into condenser microphones, a xenex mixer, a MacBook Pro GarageBand and a Skype account. Exit music by SS 41 with their song heart of it, you can download it from iTunes or stream it on Spotify. You can also subscribe to the inconclusive podcast via the iTunes Music Store, or podomatic.com. The largest community of independent podcasters on the planet from Marietta, Georgia. Please join us again on the thinking cluesive podcast. Thanks for your time and attention