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Detroit City Planning Commission, 3/6/2025
Unknown Speaker
00:20So, hey, how's it going? Good. Good fellow. God.
Unknown Speaker
00:59For us Love
Speaker 1
03:34Testing, testing, 123, testing, Yeah, I
Unknown Speaker
04:59ms Murphy, may we be heard Loud and clear on the Zoom side,
Unknown Speaker
05:03yes, I can hear you.
Unknown Speaker
05:11One more time, please. I want to make sure that we can hear
Unknown Speaker
05:15you. Yes, I can hear you.
Unknown Speaker
05:19Thank you very much. Testing,
Unknown Speaker
05:41testing, Testing and
Unknown Speaker
06:22recording In Progress And
Speaker 1
09:27we apologize for the delays that are currently being experienced. We have addressed most of our technical issues, but we are still waiting for a quorum. Once we have achieved a quorum, then we will start the meeting again. We appreciate your understanding and your patience. Chief, you
Speaker 1
10:32Testing, testing testing 123, testing testing Testing testing 123, testing I,
Unknown Speaker
10:46testing, Testing And
Speaker 1
14:36Testing, testing, testing 123, testing, we have resolved, I believe, all of our technical issues and we will be starting momentarily as the fifth commissioner has arrived, allowing the commission to achieve quorum again, we will be starting the Meeting momentarily. We appreciate your Understanding and Your patience. You
Unknown Speaker
15:49right side of your day.
Unknown Speaker
15:57All Right. Director, whenever you are ready, you
Unknown Speaker
16:26all right,
Speaker 2
16:31okay, all right. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for attending our planning commission meeting this evening. The time is 536, and I will call this meeting to order Director Todd, can we have a roll call please?
Unknown Speaker
16:44Certainly may Mr. Chair, Commissioner Bennett present, Commissioner Daniels present, Commissioner Esparza has asked to be excused, as has Commissioner Harrison, Commissioner Lewis, Commissioner Markowitz is also asked to be excused. Commissioner Russell here, Commissioner Smith present, and Commissioner udavi Here, Mr. Chair. Commissioners, you have a quorum present.
Speaker 2
17:21Thank you. Dr Todd, next, we have the agenda. Do we have any amendments to the agenda? Mr. Chair commissioners, there's no all right as there are no amendments to the agenda. Looking for a motion to approve the agenda as presented. Thank you. Commissioner Daniels, thank you for your second Commissioner Russell. All in support of approving the agenda as presented, indicates so with the sign of aye, aye in opposition, sign of Nay. Thank you. The agenda has been approved. Next we have the meeting minutes for November 2120 24 looking for a motion to approve those meeting minutes. So moved. Thank you, Commissioner udobe, do we have a second? Thank you, Commissioner Bennett, excuse me all in support of approving the meeting minutes for November 121, 2024 indicates so with a sign of Aye. Aye, aye, in opposition, sign of Nay. There Are No nays that approves the meeting minutes for November 2120 24 Next, I will call the 515 public hearing. This is a request to consider the CO petitioners, Linda King and Herman Stacey, in conjunction with the City Planning Commission to amend article X VII, Section 5017, 10, district map number nine of the 2019 
Detroit City Code, Chapter 50 zoning, to show an SD, one special development, small scale mixed use zoning classification where the r2, two family residential district are five, medium density residential district and our six high density residential district. Zoning classifications are shown for properties commonly known as 11534, Woodrow, Wilson Avenue, also 1540 1550, 1636, Lawrence Street, 1551, and 1537, Burlingame Street, generally bounded by Rosa Parks Boulevard to the east, bounded by Rosa Parks Boulevard the East, West alley, first north of Lawrence Street, Woodrow Wilson Avenue, Burlingame Street, the John C Lodge Freeway and Lawrence Street. Mister Jeffries, will you be helping us through this item this evening? That is correct. Mister Chair, alright. Whenever you are ready, you can take this item away. Thank you,
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Detroit City Code, Chapter 50 zoning, to show an SD, one special development, small scale mixed use zoning classification where the r2, two family residential district are five, medium density residential district and our six high density residential district. Zoning classifications are shown for properties commonly known as 11534, Woodrow, Wilson Avenue, also 1540 1550, 1636, Lawrence Street, 1551, and 1537, Burlingame Street, generally bounded by Rosa Parks Boulevard to the east, bounded by Rosa Parks Boulevard the East, West alley, first north of Lawrence Street, Woodrow Wilson Avenue, Burlingame Street, the John C Lodge Freeway and Lawrence Street. Mister Jeffries, will you be helping us through this item this evening? That is correct. Mister Chair, alright. Whenever you are ready, you can take this item away. Thank you, Speaker 3
19:39Mister Chair, if we might do a round of introductions, my name again, as you stated, as Kimani Jeffrey of the City Planning Commission, staff.
Speaker 4
19:49My name is Woodrow, Hankins Jehovah Church of God.
Unknown Speaker
19:55Great farmer, designer.
Unknown Speaker
19:59So Mr. Chair. Okay?
Speaker 5
20:01Leandra King, Detroit farm insider,
Unknown Speaker
20:05Julius cousin, Detroit farm insider,
Speaker 3
20:09thank you and Mr. Chair, if it's okay, we'll get started. Yes, please. Thank you. Just wanted to note that this is a continued public hearing. You might recall, at your last regularly scheduled meeting, we had to adjourn this and to from February the sixth, and we adjourned it to a date and time, which is today, at 515 so this is a continuance of that public hearing. Also do want to note that the law department is here. They may chime in if there's any particular questions. I'm not sure that they plan to speak, but I believe they're 
here just in case questions may arise. So this is this matter is related to the properties generally known as 1636, Lawrence and 1551, Burlingame. It also includes 11534 Woodrow Wilson, 153415154015 or one six through six. Lawrence Street and then also 1551 and 1537 Burlingame just wanted to make sure we call out all of the addresses that are involved in this rezoning. This shows the current zoning classifications of these parcels. You'll see our six. You'll see our two and our five, all of these parcels that are in the highlighted area are proposed to be rezoned to SD one special development, mixed use, small scale. This is just a overview of those parcels, so you'll see the same parcels that L shaped configuration of parcels. This is what that looks like with the building footprints also highlighted. And so the current zoning classifications are two, is the two family residential district r5 is a medium density residential district, and our six which currently lies on the on that site is high density, high density residential district. All of these parcels that were just shown in those zoning classifications are proposed to change to an SD, one special 
development, mixed use district, generally designed to encourage complimentary small scale, pedestrian and transit oriented uses that are compatible in a neighborhood setting. It's intended to ensure a neighborhood character and place a proper balance of activities within walking distance of one another, and also serve the day to day needs of the residents in proximity. Again, this is the site. This is just a area of the site as it exists today. And this is, I do want to note that there are three different petitioners. One petitioner is Miss Leandro king. The other petitioner is Mr. Woodrow Hankins, mister misleander King, and also her husband. Don't want to neglect to mention him, and then also mister Woodrow Hankins. So there's two separate petitioners that will speak today. And then the third petitioner is the City Planning Commission staff. And the reason that we are co petitioning, I believe you can see my cursor on the screen, but this area that I'm hovering over now just south of the church building, east of Woodrow Wilson, this area, these parcels are owned by the land bank, and in an effort to create some zoning consistency, we are co petitioning that if this proposal is to go forward, that this vacant grass area here would also be rezoned for parcels that the land land bank owns. I Yeah, and so again, 1636, Lawrence is the proposal of Detroit farm. Insider, just a quick I'll give a quick overview, and then I want the petitioner to go a little more in depth in what they are proposing. I do want to note that this, this was recently in court. Some of that is currently still being resolved. We do have an opinion from the law department that although there's a portion of this that is in court, in the court system, that we could still proceed with the rezoning. And we also pause this at the last public hearing and adjourned it to today, just to make sure that we were all on the same page, but that they do want to note that they did put something in writing that we could proceed. And I believe you all have that legal opinion that we can proceed with a rezoning request, and it's at the pleasure of this body if that request proceeds. We also want to note that there were some correction orders that were issued, and it's our understanding from talking to the petitioner that those things are in process to be rectified. There was recently a an inspection done by the buildings and safety department in which they came out, and I believe they're going to be issuing a report to the petitioner for just some of the things that need to be rectified, and so that they can pull apartments. We look at this as an effort to change the zoning also to come into conformance with what the city is asking for. So without some of these zoning changes, you can't pull apartments for commercial uses because it's zoned residential. So this is an effort to also come into conformance with what the city is asking of the petitioner. So for that reason, that is why this is before you today. And so the petitioner is looking to create a hub for a youth equestrian for youth equestrian workshops, and also to host certain farm animals, such as chickens and pro they in the past, they've done programming with local school districts, and they want to do that going into the future. Currently, they are closed. I believe that the petitioner would echo that they are not in operation seeing you tomorrow, period. Dr Bucha, I think you might have to mute your device, but they're currently not in operation. They're looking to come into conformance with all city codes so that they may be able to operate legally. The animal portions of what they are proposing would be going on a separate track. As you all know, this honorable body recommended approval of the recent animal husbandry ordinance that did get approved by city council, and it became effective on January the 31st so that would be a separate track that would happen through the buildings and safety department that they would have to petition or for a special land use hearing at the buildings department, and then they can propose what animals that they are would want to keep in those those things. But we just want to note that that's the full vision. But for today, they are currently requesting the rezoning for 1636 Lawrence in order to permit retail sales for a farm and cider operation that would conduct cider pressing and farm to table dinners. It would also be supported by residential units and as well as Bed and Breakfast. The animal, as I said, the animal keeping components would be separate from this proposal. So with that being said through you, Mr. Chair, I would like to pass the floor to the petitioner, just to take us a little bit deeper into what the vision is and what they are proposing and what they want to achieve with this rezoning.
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here just in case questions may arise. So this is this matter is related to the properties generally known as 1636, Lawrence and 1551, Burlingame. It also includes 11534 Woodrow Wilson, 153415154015 or one six through six. Lawrence Street and then also 1551 and 1537 Burlingame just wanted to make sure we call out all of the addresses that are involved in this rezoning. This shows the current zoning classifications of these parcels. You'll see our six. You'll see our two and our five, all of these parcels that are in the highlighted area are proposed to be rezoned to SD one special development, mixed use, small scale. This is just a overview of those parcels, so you'll see the same parcels that L shaped configuration of parcels. This is what that looks like with the building footprints also highlighted. And so the current zoning classifications are two, is the two family residential district r5 is a medium density residential district, and our six which currently lies on the on that site is high density, high density residential district. All of these parcels that were just shown in those zoning classifications are proposed to change to an SD, one special +1
development, mixed use district, generally designed to encourage complimentary small scale, pedestrian and transit oriented uses that are compatible in a neighborhood setting. It's intended to ensure a neighborhood character and place a proper balance of activities within walking distance of one another, and also serve the day to day needs of the residents in proximity. Again, this is the site. This is just a area of the site as it exists today. And this is, I do want to note that there are three different petitioners. One petitioner is Miss Leandro king. The other petitioner is Mr. Woodrow Hankins, mister misleander King, and also her husband. Don't want to neglect to mention him, and then also mister Woodrow Hankins. So there's two separate petitioners that will speak today. And then the third petitioner is the City Planning Commission staff. And the reason that we are co petitioning, I believe you can see my cursor on the screen, but this area that I'm hovering over now just south of the church building, east of Woodrow Wilson, this area, these parcels are owned by the land bank, and in an effort to create some zoning consistency, we are co petitioning that if this proposal is to go forward, that this vacant grass area here would also be rezoned for parcels that the land land bank owns. I Yeah, and so again, 1636, Lawrence is the proposal of Detroit farm. Insider, just a quick I'll give a quick overview, and then I want the petitioner to go a little more in depth in what they are proposing. I do want to note that this, this was recently in court. Some of that is currently still being resolved. We do have an opinion from the law department that although there's a portion of this that is in court, in the court system, that we could still proceed with the rezoning. And we also pause this at the last public hearing and adjourned it to today, just to make sure that we were all on the same page, but that they do want to note that they did put something in writing that we could proceed. And I believe you all have that legal opinion that we can proceed with a rezoning request, and it's at the pleasure of this body if that request proceeds. We also want to note that there were some correction orders that were issued, and it's our understanding from talking to the petitioner that those things are in process to be rectified. There was recently a an inspection done by the buildings and safety department in which they came out, and I believe they're going to be issuing a report to the petitioner for just some of the things that need to be rectified, and so that they can pull apartments. We look at this as an effort to change the zoning also to come into conformance with what the city is asking for. So without some of these zoning changes, you can't pull apartments for commercial uses because it's zoned residential. So this is an effort to also come into conformance with what the city is asking of the petitioner. So for that reason, that is why this is before you today. And so the petitioner is looking to create a hub for a youth equestrian for youth equestrian workshops, and also to host certain farm animals, such as chickens and pro they in the past, they've done programming with local school districts, and they want to do that going into the future. Currently, they are closed. I believe that the petitioner would echo that they are not in operation seeing you tomorrow, period. Dr Bucha, I think you might have to mute your device, but they're currently not in operation. They're looking to come into conformance with all city codes so that they may be able to operate legally. The animal portions of what they are proposing would be going on a separate track. As you all know, this honorable body recommended approval of the recent animal husbandry ordinance that did get approved by city council, and it became effective on January the 31st so that would be a separate track that would happen through the buildings and safety department that they would have to petition or for a special land use hearing at the buildings department, and then they can propose what animals that they are would want to keep in those those things. But we just want to note that that's the full vision. But for today, they are currently requesting the rezoning for 1636 Lawrence in order to permit retail sales for a farm and cider operation that would conduct cider pressing and farm to table dinners. It would also be supported by residential units and as well as Bed and Breakfast. The animal, as I said, the animal keeping components would be separate from this proposal. So with that being said through you, Mr. Chair, I would like to pass the floor to the petitioner, just to take us a little bit deeper into what the vision is and what they are proposing and what they want to achieve with this rezoning. Unknown Speaker
28:36Thank you. Whenever you read,
Speaker 5
28:38Hi, my name is Leandra King. I'm the owner of Detroit farm. Insider, our program hosts a slew of different sub programs, so we have our 4h programming, which is our equestrian immersion workshop, where we have youth on the farm, and we teach them how to care for horses and livestock, as well as we do cognitive behavioral therapy through equestrian care. In the past, we've hosted field trips with dpscd Allen Park Public Schools. We've also hosted field trips with smaller youth programming through Wayne County, we've had farm to table dinners. The bulk of what we do is feeding our community though. So through the Eastern Market box program, as well as our previous CSA program, we've been able to feed over 600 families throughout district five every year. So this will just help us to further generate revenue to support some of the free programming through our nonprofit, as well as continue to flourish with what we're currently doing, and like Mr. Jeffrey said, we're currently closed via the difficulties or the the permitting concerns that the city had, so we're just looking to be in compliance and reopen.
Speaker 2
30:22Okay, thank you. Quick question of staff, before we handed some our fellow commissioners, do we include horses in the animal husbandry or how does that relate to just ordinance wise?
Speaker 3
30:37Yes, that's a good question. Mister Chair, so the the general provisions for the animal husbandry ordinance allow chickens, ducks and honey bees, you know, so in your typical backyard or smaller areas, that's those are the general animals that you will be able to keep. However, there is a special clause in the ordinance, those are allowed on a by right basis, as an accessory use, but there is a clause in the ordinance that allows for a conditional use for other animals that may be proposed, and that's only for nonprofits and 4h programs. So it's not open to just anybody, but if you're nonprofit forage program, you're offering educational services for community and things like that, then you would be able to have other animals outside of the scope of the general ordinance, and so that has to be reviewed by Animal Care control the building's department and planning and development, and it has a public hearing at the buildings department. Okay?
Speaker 2
31:48Thank you. And will the applicant be required to comply with the quantity requirements we outlined in the husbandry, animal husbandry ordinance? So
Speaker 3
31:59as a part of that, just as it's an exception clause for species, it's also an exception clause for quantities. So ultimately, as opposed to the general requirements for, you know, the accessory use, there's a set number, set species. Everything is already set for this is more lenient because there's a higher intensity and level of review, and a public hearing is required, which is not required for the general provision
Speaker 2
32:30ordinance, because the applicant is a nonprofit or 4h is that that's correct? That's the criteria that's allowing this to happen. Yes.
Speaker 3
32:39So it cuts it down for who can propose those you know? Well, I'll just leave it at that one go into,
Speaker 2
32:48okay, yep, I'm following. Okay, that answers my question. Commissioners.
Speaker 3
32:54Was some still left for the for this presentation, if there's more presentation left, yeah, okay, if that's okay, yeah, let's do your questions. Say it again.
Unknown Speaker
33:05Yep, go right
Speaker 6
33:10ahead. Your chair. Chairman, just wanted to disclose that I have Julius, cousin, who is one of the petitioners, a business relation that does involve this property. These properties are farm insider, but just want to disclose that, and it's not a active business relationship at the moment.
Unknown Speaker
33:26Okay,
Speaker 2
33:27thank you for clarifying. Have a question, any other questions before we continue the presentation? Okay? Director Todd, thank
Speaker 1
33:37you, Mr. Chair. And just to acknowledge Commissioner Bennett's disclosure, he has made public disclosure, no peculiar interest as it concerns this proposal, so there is no conflict of interest. But in order to also be in compliance with the ethics ordinance, he will also be required to fill out a board of ethics relationship disclosure form. So we'll provide that to the commissioner subsequently.
Speaker 2
34:01Okay, thank you, and you may continue with your presentation.
Speaker 3
34:04Thank you, Mr. Chair. If you want to just give a brief overview of the site plan. So
Speaker 5
34:16we plan on, we're working with the Amish builders in northern Michigan, where we plan on having some turnkey, prefab, tiny unit, tiny lodging units for bed and breakfast that will it's a pretty simple site plan. We just plan on they're under 200 square feet each, and we plan on having them on the farm for individuals who are either interning through partnerships we have with universities and want to stay on site or to pay to assist with additional revenue through the farm. Am I missing anything, aside from the 50 other UMS I'm going to say
Speaker 3
35:03that covers it. And if commissioners have questions, they can add later. And then, if you could just speak to the support,
Unknown Speaker
35:13support from community. Yes, sorry.
Speaker 5
35:17So we have been at our location since 2018 and we our neighbors, all of our neighbors support us. We have never received a complaint or concern from any of the surrounding neighbors. We have my mentor is Reverend faith valor. And she is the founder of cash community social services, which is has the tiny house project. They own about 75% of the property within a two mile radius of us, all of our neighbors have, if they have 48206, on their their license or their ID, they receive free produce, whatever we're growing or we have on the farm and that and for that season or for that week, our neighbors have free access to so and that's been that way for years. This is just a letter of support from all of our surrounding neighbors, as well as businesses. And then I think there's another separate letter support from Reverend Fowler. And
Speaker 3
36:32through the chair we'll be we'll submit that tonight to make sure everyone
Unknown Speaker
36:35has it okay. And
Speaker 2
36:37you also when next time when it comes back, share the site
Speaker 3
36:40of site plan, yes, and that is it for this, for Detroit farm to cider and through you, Mr. Chair, if we might proceed to Jehovah Shalom church. Mr. Woodrow, Hankins. Or would you like to pause there? We
Speaker 2
36:56can. I just have one question about the residential uses are those permitted in SD one.
Speaker 3
37:04Those are permitted in SD one, and that, though, that I believe, is the subject of some of the corrective orders just coming into compliance and pulling permits for some of the components of those residential units. So yes,
Speaker 2
37:23but from a planning and zoning that it's not a problem to have those there, that's correct. Okay, alright, that was my only question. And so you can proceed. And if you could also just clarify, I guess, the relationship of this with with everything else, yes. So
Speaker 3
37:42through the chair to the commission, there is no relationship between the two petitioners. It just so happens that we've, we've been talking to miss King for probably about a year. We sort of hit the brakes once you know some of the court action took place, and so in that time, we also got a petition from Mr. Hankins, more recently. And so as not to, you know, separate these, they're in proximity, also trying to unify zoning. We thought that it would be best if we could bring them forth jointly and hear them at the same time. So I believe they've met through, you know, through this, this ordeal, going through the petitioning process. I believe they've just recently met, and so now they're in conversations about, you know, how the projects relate, and things of that nature. But these are two separate projects,
Speaker 2
38:38okay, separate projects. They're just petitioning together at the same Okay, no problem. Yeah, go ahead. Commissioner Dobby,
Speaker 7
38:47thank you, Mr. Chair, thank you for giving the presentation so far. I'm really curious. Miss King, what got you into this line of work and what inspired you to start this?
Unknown Speaker
38:59Yeah, all of it.
Speaker 5
39:03I had a crappy childhood, and nature's healing, and someone slapped me on a horse, and it made me feel better. So there you go.
Unknown Speaker
39:17Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Chair, all right,
Unknown Speaker
39:20whenever you're ready,
Speaker 4
39:22Herman. 
My name is Woodrow Hankins, conveniently with Woodrow Wilson here, Dr Herman is our bishop. Sorry, Jehovah, and like Mr. Kimani said, well, first of all, thank you all for having this meeting like you said, we're just interested in right now we're residential at our site for our church, but we would really like the opportunity to expand into areas that may just help us with generation of revenue, but also expanding the edict to serve the community and and so we just felt like some of these areas that I'm just going to mention here would help us in that. And we saw that a lot of several other church properties in the area had a little bit more of a business zoning than ours was our zone residential, and so we wanted to, you know, get to that point, to be able to do some of these things. So, like, for instance, be able to sell media, have a book, basically a bookstore, book and media store, or a coffee shop, or, you know, have use it as a rental Hall for like, graduation, open houses and and things and celebrations and things like that. And, you know, like I said, nursery. So, so we too had support from our local community, a few of which went to our go to our church or went, because some one of our people are kind of home bound right now, but, but we have support from, again, I have Erica George from cash community, and, of course, Leandra here and, and, Like I said, several other people in the area. That's pretty much it. So, oh, I'm sorry, and we would not go out. We're not looking to go outside of the boundary of our of our facility. Just, just remain in the facility on the property.
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My name is Woodrow Hankins, conveniently with Woodrow Wilson here, Dr Herman is our bishop. Sorry, Jehovah, and like Mr. Kimani said, well, first of all, thank you all for having this meeting like you said, we're just interested in right now we're residential at our site for our church, but we would really like the opportunity to expand into areas that may just help us with generation of revenue, but also expanding the edict to serve the community and and so we just felt like some of these areas that I'm just going to mention here would help us in that. And we saw that a lot of several other church properties in the area had a little bit more of a business zoning than ours was our zone residential, and so we wanted to, you know, get to that point, to be able to do some of these things. So, like, for instance, be able to sell media, have a book, basically a bookstore, book and media store, or a coffee shop, or, you know, have use it as a rental Hall for like, graduation, open houses and and things and celebrations and things like that. And, you know, like I said, nursery. So, so we too had support from our local community, a few of which went to our go to our church or went, because some one of our people are kind of home bound right now, but, but we have support from, again, I have Erica George from cash community, and, of course, Leandra here and, and, Like I said, several other people in the area. That's pretty much it. So, oh, I'm sorry, and we would not go out. We're not looking to go outside of the boundary of our of our facility. Just, just remain in the facility on the property. 
Unknown Speaker
41:39All right, thank you,
Speaker 8
41:41Commissioner Daniels, thank you, Mr. Chair, I have one question about parking, ample parking in that area to accommodate the tiger mill.
Unknown Speaker
41:50So the lot of
Unknown Speaker
41:56yes to you,
Speaker 5
41:58the lot that is adjacent to myself and Mr. Woodrow is what we're going to petition the land bank and see if we can either get it discounted, because it's priced at 75,000 for some reason, I don't know why, but where our goal is to use that lot that is adjacent as for parking. And my civil engineer husband here is going to figure that out for me, if we can make that happen, so
Speaker 8
42:32that the only parking currently, or the street parking, or what do you have to for us?
Speaker 5
42:36If you could see, I don't know if you can see on Lawrence Street, where those two driveway entrances are on the southern side of of the street, right there, when you come in between those two driveway entrances is, is where we historically have had patrons Park also, I guess. And for lack of better words on the L, where Woodrow Wilson, where you see those trees, that brush, we've used that for parking as well. But I, I don't like doing that, because it's not good for our soil. So we would ideally take that empty lot that the land bank owns and maybe replace it with gravel or whatever he thinks is advantageous, and have people park over there.
Speaker 8
43:28Well, I guess one more question, how many residential, small, 200 square foot units are you going to be putting
Speaker 5
43:33in phase one, which would be done this year. We're looking at six total. But when I'm done, I would like to have 20 on the property.
Speaker 8
43:45You actually make the cider at the location, um,
Speaker 5
43:49that for the first year. So this year is going to be focused on our youth programming and logic. Next year, we're going to focus more on the cider selling, and then the year after that, we'll be focusing on cider pressing. Reason being is cider presses are expensive, and everything is really expensive right now, we have a partnership that we formed with Blake cider, and they're willing to allow us to resell their cider next year, or whenever we decide to start doing that. So we're just trying to take it in baby steps.
Speaker 8
44:24Are they going to allow you to put your label on the stick? So they're going to press it for you you put your label on it, or you're going to just carry Blake cider. We're just
Speaker 5
44:33going to carry Blake cider probably for the first year until we until we gather our bearings and get our our big girl feet together. So
Unknown Speaker
44:43alright, thank you.
Speaker 5
44:45Thank you. There's, there's also a lot of permitting and a lot of loops associated with processed cider. So what's the word I'm looking for, food safety. Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 2
45:02Sorry, okay, Commissioner Russell and Commissioner
Speaker 9
45:07Bennett, Thank you, Chair I I'm just curious. I pulled up your website. There's nice pictures, and there's a video on here that shows it looks like about 1000 people all sitting down eating at one time. Where was, where was where was that?
Speaker 5
45:30In our one of our greenhouses, we have a aquaponic system in one of our greenhouses, it has this big, beautiful waterfall, and we have fish in the bottom of the aquaponic system that provide natural fertilizer for the plants that we grow on the second and the third tiers. And so we hosted a slew of fundraiser dinners and other events in that greenhouse, which is a big draw to the community and outside of our community as well.
Speaker 9
46:01So so there's a it, it looked like some a snaking table, yeah, yeah, that was that actually on the site that you had
Speaker 5
46:09that. Yeah. So we're, we're roughly five acres of land, and I, I've been told I know how to maximize space. So that's in one of the greenhouses. And then we've also had our dining table literally snaked throughout our orchard with we have two acre two acres at roughly two acres is the orchard you could see all the trees just space, yes, well, that's, yeah, that's one of the dinners that we have. We had 300 patrons come to that that was throughout outstanding in the field. They travel across the country and outside of the country as well. And they support local farms and have host their dinners all over.
Speaker 9
46:55And then, so you all have an orchard there. You have how many fruit trees? 130 130 and then, so there was, seem to be 125
Unknown Speaker
47:04because some of them aren't doing that well. So and
Speaker 9
47:06they so you, you had people come and pick these, yeah, so, and that still goes on. Um,
Speaker 5
47:13everything that we're doing right now is non for profit. So if, like, last year, we were still feeding the community, but we have steered away from from for profit activities because of the legal issues that we've been having. So we just wanted to, we just want to do everything the right way, but now we're broke, and we want to make some
Unknown Speaker
47:39money. So
Speaker 9
47:42I got a couple more questions, and for Mr. Jefferies and and one, and I'm sure you, you probably said, but I wasn't sure what is, what's the church's current zoning?
Speaker 3
47:56So the zoning for the church is r2
Speaker 9
48:00r2 and it's going to S, S, d1 that's the everything that's because, right? And and then. And, you know, when I read the description of SD one, it talks about lessening the parking requirement and that there's a and encourages a neighborhood parking plan, which I wouldn't think would be on the applicants, but is the city looking at that area and proposing a parking strategy
Speaker 3
48:34and through the chair, my discussion is the city is not looking at the area for parking strategy, however, you know, the petitioners in our the meetings that you know, we've coordinated as staff that they've been in, they've begun discussions about potential share parking. You know, that's that remains to see how far that will go. But there has been some very high level discussion about potential share parking for those two sites,
Speaker 9
49:09and then all these things in SD one, because I know we had our six was that. And once again, I apologize, where was the r6
Unknown Speaker
49:22so the r6 is the
Speaker 9
49:24Detroit farmer, cider. So the whole Yes, which is on the screen right, and what was the height that they could have in our six, that
Speaker 3
49:32I could get you that shortly, I would have to look that up in the ordinance.
Speaker 9
49:38And so the city's proposing our SD one in that area so that and that matches up. We're not looking to put a lot of density in in this one area. Is that I'm asking it backwards,
Speaker 3
50:01that question a little bit. So, you know,
Speaker 9
50:05when I think of some place r6 I think there's some zoning along the riverfront, that's our six. And when I hear it in my layman turns i I'm thinking, high rise, whole lot of people in a small space. And I'm just saying we're, we're moving away from that. And is, does that coincide with the city's future plans? Through the Chair.
Unknown Speaker
50:29Can
Speaker 2
50:30you give me one second? Mr. Jeffries, I just want to acknowledge and call the 6pm public hearing, and then recess the six o'clock public hearing to the call of the chair, and then recall the 515 public hearing you can carry on. Mr. Jeff, thank you, Mr. Chair,
Speaker 3
50:51that is a great question. Commissioner Russell, I would say that this proposal, what we find a lot of times is that community proposals or the vision of certain stakeholders in community sometimes is ahead of where the city is. Sometimes, sometimes that helps guide, you know, planning, studies and things like that is, you know, a lot of the input is taken from community. And I say that to say the city doesn't, hasn't had a planning study in this area. However, we have consulted with the planning and development department. They have provided a letter to say that this is generally consistent with the Master Plan, generally consistent. I would, I wouldn't say that a rezoning from our six to SD one reduces the intensity of scale that's allowed you can, you could get higher, about the same or close to the same heights in SD one that you could achieve with our six so I wouldn't say it's lowering the intensity. The biggest change is probably the addition of some commercial uses that are permitted in SD one. If you if you recall, we had a recent rezoning for Oakland Avenue urban farm. And while SD one isn't the the the most desire zoning district for this situation. It is what we have in our limited arsenal of tools in the zoning ordinance today. That's why we believe zone Detroit will help to give us more tools to address some of these productive farming type operations, urban agriculture type operations, where we don't have to necessarily rezone to the mixed use districts, but we might, and we might be able to retain residential zoning, but have districts that allow that are remain residential, but allow more productive uses in within the parameters of those districts. That makes sense. So, yes, okay, so I'll leave it there, because I could go on for a long time about that, but I think that sounds like
Speaker 9
53:16and I probably should just ask this, this, if this move forward, does it match what's on the master plan? And you said that planning,
Speaker 3
53:26I was heard with, I would say it's not apples to apples. But the the the policy that we've had, long standing policy that we've had, is that if it doesn't change the the a bra swath, swath of land in the area, then it could be considered generally consistent, because it's not going to have a major impact on a entire neighborhood
Speaker 9
53:52and and for some reason, I it seemed strange to me that that piece of property would be zoned. R6 it didn't really seem to fit. And just to me, SD one seems to fit that neighborhood, like Midtown and that, and can really revitalize the area so that that fits. But I just, I didn't know that history of why that was zoning. That's why I asked. The other thing is, is that the there's some other farms in the city, you know, probably, in my opinion, far too few, right? And that what I what I've noticed with some of them is that they need assistance with planning of their space, and I didn't know. Does the city have those type of services, either through our glorious CPC or with planning and development? If they have you know, where they could interview a good corporate citizen and then help assist with laying out and planning for their future uses. Is there something like that available
Speaker 3
55:24through the chair. I would say that while there might not be a sort of strategic planning effort for specific areas at all times, you know, many times we receive people that come into our offices that we help on a case by case basis. For you know, they may have a small number of parcels that they're looking to do something with. Staff is always willing to, you know, help through efforts like this rezoning, sometimes, sometimes, you know, other departments may be able to help. We have a land land based projects team that currently meets and we meet with people that are trying to do more productive uses and may not know how to achieve what they're looking to do. So we have a team that meets with people in the ag community and people that are just trying to do something creative with their lots. And that includes BC, our Office, Office of Urban Ag, and other offices, PDD, so there are outlets for people with smaller projects that may not be within the planning study area. How do you sign up for that? So we actually just had a for that particular group. We just had office hours today, and so we have monthly office hours where we meet with constituents. So you could go to the land land based projects website, and that's hosted by BC, and you can see the times for that, and come to a session, and you got all of the departments that are there to help you and help chart path forward for you for those type of projects, just a couple more.
Speaker 9
57:09So do we know what neighborhood organizations are here in this area, other than the two that are here before us.
Speaker 3
57:21I believe cast Community Services is probably one of the bigger ones. Would you guys know any other
Speaker 5
57:39sorry, Job Corps organization that is adjacent in our area to cast community social services, and then, or it's serves to mention that cast community social services also works In partnership with many other organizations as well. So,
Speaker 9
58:03so Mr. Jeffries, so like, if three or four neighborhood organizations said came to City Planning Commission and said, you know, we want to develop a plan for our area, what would happen? I
Speaker 3
58:23through the chair. That's more of a question for the administration, for if you're speaking to the official planning studies led by the mayor and his planning development department, but I will say I, from my humble opinion, I have seen some planning efforts sort of initiate in that fashion. I think at one point, the North End planning study was not contemplated by the administration. But because there was so much Gerald, would that been one started out. Not sure how that one initiated. I but you know, in some of the things that I've seen over the years, some of the energy from the community has led to certain efforts and studies Midwest tireman that I believe a lot of that energy came for that, the initiation of that started with the rezoning that this honorable body approved, where we were down zoning to stop some of the industrial activity the auto related uses. There were, like 36 auto related uses in a very small proximity. And then from that effort, that community, the Joe Lewis Greenway, there was a lot of synergy there. If I said Greenway from here, I could pull that up on the map, not sure exactly, but I could pull it up on a map and get your answer before we
Speaker 9
59:54so the the benefits of a plan like that would be, what
Speaker 3
01:00:07the benefits of a planning study? Yeah, but I think the benefits of that study is it just allows people to know where investment is planned in the community. Would it encourage investment
Unknown Speaker
01:00:23and support?
Speaker 3
01:00:26I definitely think so. The city generally couples that with their strategic neighborhoods and the funds that go along with that people. I think it gives people some idea of what's happening in the area where they should invest, where infrastructure is going to go. So it can give people some certainty, or an idea of what was had, what the future is for particular areas, which gives them more confidence when they're making decisions on where to locate, where to live, where to invest, because,
Speaker 9
01:01:02because this is a because what's what else is not far from here to the congregation, it's not far from here, right? And, you know, these sort of activities are, you know, things that I would think the city would want to promote, you know, and help to prosper, right? And if there was, you know, a, you know, you know, it would just be a piece of paper, basically, you know, so things could change, but the laying out of a plan might help generate a lot of things and get a lot of people on the same and bring resources to people who are trying to do good and creative things. You know. So I don't know if you could make a if we could make a request that somehow that gets started for that area wouldn't hold anybody up, but just in the future, would help them out. Mm, hmm, is that something we can do,
Speaker 3
01:02:13uh, through the chair? I think if that is this honorable body's intent, it may be good to put that in writing, and I think that may go a long way as we can convey it to the appropriate departments and the administration.
Unknown Speaker
01:02:34Thank you. Mr. Jeffrey, thank you. Thank you
Unknown Speaker
01:02:36Chair. Thank you. Commissioner Russell, Commissioner Bennett,
Speaker 6
01:02:42thank Thank you, Mr. Chair. My questions are primarily concerning the petitioner at 1551 Burlingame, jova shalom, Church of God. Does the church currently have dedicated parking
Speaker 4
01:03:01right now we park basically both on the street and also, even though it's not our property, the property vacant property that's across the street, okay, directly across the street, okay, it's owned by land bank, okay? Or one of them, one of them
Speaker 6
01:03:23is with the proposed potential uses. These are all just currently ideas, or is there a plan for any of the specific uses that have been mentioned? So
Speaker 4
01:03:33they are both, both ideas, and also there's a plan, especially for our low hanging fruit of book and content, like basically bookstore and, you know, in coffee shop, we do have, we do have a few good members who are like educators in the city that have developed like schools, and so that would be in the planning stage. Okay, so
Speaker 6
01:04:01I guess my one concern is with field schooling and then with potential rental you're you could be looking, I'm not sure what the size of your congregation is, but are you looking at a large influx of traffic at times?
Speaker 4
01:04:16I think that not really, not looking for a large influx. I It's tough to say. I don't. I would not expect that we have a lot.
Speaker 6
01:04:29So my question, especially with the B if a rental Hall, I don't know. I mean, it looks to be a decent sized building, so I just the size of a fence that might be held right?
Speaker 4
01:04:38And it wouldn't, it wouldn't, well, about, like, between 50 and like 100 like, what sometimes when we have, like, concerts, and it's that amount of people, anyway, but I was going to say it just would not be that that large, not large, like some of the other places down the street. And so in terms of a rental Hall. It would be, you know, still consistent with, like, our church ministry. It would not be loud and, and, you know, bunches of people, okay, that's, that's our Oh, that's our plan,
Speaker 3
01:05:15alright, thank you for the church, right, right, yeah, only church parishioners
Speaker 4
01:05:19as well. And so, okay, okay, because still, they have different events that they need space for. Okay,
Speaker 2
01:05:27it would be the event hall would be for the church, or would the public be able to rent it from the church? Well,
Unknown Speaker
01:05:34the public would be able to rent it from the church and stuff. But
Unknown Speaker
01:05:37okay, Commissioner Dobby,
Speaker 7
01:05:42thank you, Mr. Chair. I do have a question for you about the church. It maybe this is bouncing off of Commissioner Bennett's question, but I see that you want to do, potentially a child care center, school, bookstore, coffee shop, counseling, space, gallery, rental Hall. And I'm Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. No, go ahead. And I'm curious, are you going to be rebuilding any parts of the church building? Will this happen already inside the building? How many of these things are just like fun ideas, and how many are like actual plans that you want to do? I'm curious how this can fit all in your like property space. So
Speaker 4
01:06:23there are, there are ideas, there ideas. But in terms of, like I said earlier, there is some build out involved, because we are looking to do our bookstore immediate, you know, for content selling bookstores and so, so there's no there's no drawings, nothing. We don't have any architectural plans yet, but they would all still be in that building, because we need to rehab our building anyway, to be honest. And and so I'm not sure if I answered your question, but kind of both ways, in terms of plans to, you know, do some building inside, but, but there are just ideas as well, to an extent. Okay,
Speaker 7
01:07:08got it so y'all are being creative about what you could put in this building. There's some options, and they would all be encapsulated under an SD one district.
Speaker 4
01:07:17Yes, we saw some of the other. Like I said earlier, some churches were before. I think that's the category I saw. We saw and and we just wanted to be consistent and have that opportunity to be creative with some of our ideas that we think would actually support some of Miss leandra's activities as well.
Speaker 7
01:07:41Yeah, thanks for explaining that to me. I have a question now for Mr. Jeffries, because it would be SD one, if I'm not mistaken, does that mean that these folks would have to come back and present to us if they make any changes to their buildings
Speaker 3
01:07:59through the chair. They would not have to come but if, say, if this were to be approved, they wouldn't have to come back before this honorable body, but they would have to, for some uses, go to the buildings and safety department for public hearing at that time, parking would also be required. So whatever the proposed uses are, you know, say, if they only decide to do two of these uses, then there's associated parking, accessory parking, that's required that they will have to create, or if not, if they don't develop the parking for for those uses, they will have to then go to the BCA board of zoning appeals to request a variance to say why, you know, make a rational case of why they don't need it or why that number should be lowered. Okay,
Speaker 7
01:08:51so thank you. So to be clear, they don't need to come back to us anymore about what they do that's correct or end up doing on their property. Excellent. Thank you for explaining that. And then my final question for you is, was there any consideration for the lot north of the church that's owned by the land bank to also be looped in with this SD one?
Speaker 3
01:09:14There was some consideration. We didn't go that far. The rationale for the additional lots was mainly to because it's sort of in between both projects, and to create that consistency, we did consider that, but we we ended up leaving that out more so, more so just not to impede upon the, the the entity to the north, or to, you know, that's that's connected to that lot, because that could, you know, potentially create some sort of conflict. And we hadn't had time to engage, engage with them, you know. So that was it could have it could have been included, but that was some of the thought process and why we didn't
Unknown Speaker
01:10:10Okay. Thank you. Thank you all so much. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Speaker 2
01:10:12Thank you Commissioner Dobby. And I do want to acknowledge and welcome Commissioner Lewis. Thank you, Commissioner Daniels.
Speaker 8
01:10:20You actually have one quick question as it relates to the cider meal you're going to have farm animals, correct? Yes, you have any currently, no, no chickens, no. Okay, that's a good way to raise money right now. Oh, yeah, thank you
Speaker 2
01:10:43only if they're cage free, though they're not cage free, I'm messing with me. Alright. Any other questions? Alright? I see no other questions. This is a public hearing, so we will go forward with the public hearing portion of this item as our custom for public hearings, we allow the public to participate. If you are here in person or attending virtually. You are here in person, we acknowledge you by receiving a public comment card. If you have not got a public comment card to the front, then I will assume you do not want to speak on this item. And if you are participating virtually, and you want to participate in the public hearing, you can indicate your desire to do so by raising your hand the Zoom platform, and we will move you over to be heard. We'll start virtually today. Who's is, who's helping me out today?
Speaker 3
01:11:47Mr. Chair, I can help you out. All right, gotcha. Mr. Chair, I see one speaker, Lorraine Grady, alright, let's move
Unknown Speaker
01:12:01Lorraine over.
Unknown Speaker
01:12:06Lorraine, I'm here.
Speaker 2
01:12:08Hi, Lorraine, good afternoon. Whenever you're ready.
Speaker 10
01:12:13Okay, I am, you know, attending this virtual meeting to support the default the Detroit farm. Insider, um, I am a Detroiter with a family, and we have participated on the farm, and it has been so enlightening and brought, you know, with kids and all the social media, it's such a blessing for them to put their phones down and be with family and learn how to plant things and, you know, grow, watch things grow. It's amazing. So I am all for it, and I just want to let you guys know that I'm here to support
Unknown Speaker
01:12:54all right. Thank you,
Speaker 3
01:12:57Mr. Chair. We have no further hands. Okay? I don't know if we have anyone in person. I
Speaker 2
01:13:06believe. I believe the cards I have here are all around Davidson and Waverly, which I think are the second item. So is there anyone who did get a card to the front that I'm just not realizing this for this item. All right, I do not see any so we will go and close the public hearing for this item. And I think that concludes all the business related to the 515 public hearing. Mr. Jeffries, can you kind of just give us a high level next steps and what we can expect for this item, Yes,
Speaker 3
01:13:41Mister, Mister Chair, we'll continue working with the petitioners. Also. We'll be working talking to the law department, just to circle back with them. They are on the line. I don't know if attorney currently wanted to say anything, but just wanted to make sure that it's noted that law department is on the line. Otherwise, we will work with them before we bring this item back. Just to make sure we're all on the same page, it's my understanding that those corrective orders are going forward, and I believe just some items that need to be corrected will be provided to the petitioner of Detroit farmer cider, and as long as everybody's on the same page, we'll look to come back for potential action at a further date. Okay,
Speaker 2
01:14:35oh yeah, if you want to bring her on, she wants to provide comments. You want to promote her, she's in. She's free to speak.
Speaker 1
01:14:47Through the Chair to Attorney Alexis Jenkins, do you have anything to add? So there she is.
Speaker 11
01:14:56Good evening, commissioners. I really don't have any much to add. I think Mr. Jeffries address the law department's perspective, we will be keeping Mr. Jeffries aware of the proceedings in the civil matter, and we're hopefully, as Miss Manager King mentioned, come to some kind of resolution where the property comes into compliance.
Speaker 2
01:15:21Okay? Thank you. Commissioner Lewis, I'm sorry, Russell, you had a comment.
Speaker 9
01:15:28Yeah, I guess it's that thank you. More of a request if, and I need some help in wording this properly, but, and I guess all the commissioners would have to want this. But if we could start the ball rolling and ask staff to for this area, start up a planning process, I don't know who we would write it to, exactly what the verbiage would be. But you know, separate from this rezoning, that we can start a planning process that would incorporate the groups in that neighborhood and do some Charettes with those people and start trying to enhance that neighborhood and and bring the city's resources to help that effort?
Speaker 1
01:16:35Yes, Mister Chair, through you to Commissioner Russell, I think we'd be happy to do that, and maybe take the opportunity to do some initial sort of put some feelers out. I guess I'll put it that way, maybe in and around this project. But I think what would be good is not to usurp or to compete with what we're doing with plan Detroit. We see if we can do that as part and parcel of the outreach that is being done with regard to the master plan, and then maybe follow that up with a deeper dive, to the extent that we can coordinate those efforts with the planning and development department. I wouldn't want us to get out in front of the master plan, but do the best that we can to run parallel to those efforts,
Speaker 9
01:17:18through the through the chair that that sounds great, and that but mine, and not to compete with the master plan or step on anybody's toes in the letter, would be asked that an effort start there in that. And it might not be immediate, but you know where, and you all gave some examples of planning efforts where, at the end of the day, that's, you know, an extension to the green way, I'm just making up stuff, or, you know, whatever it is, or here's, here's where the city is looking for people to park in this neighborhood, And, you know, and those sort of things, and that would help in the revitalization of that neighborhood. And I don't know who we would write that to, and we don't want to compete with anybody, but we want to announce that we see there's a need there. If you know, if everybody thanks that.
Unknown Speaker
01:18:23Thank you. Thank you
Speaker 1
01:18:26again. Mr. Chair commissioners, Mr. Russell, we would be happy to do that. And certainly if that is just at the direction of the Chair, or if there, if you did want to do a motion to direct staff to at least begin a cursory effort, if you will, and then we can figure out what works best based upon whatever response we get from the existing community groups in the area, and also, again, from our colleagues at the planning and development department.
Speaker 2
01:18:56And if I may, through the direction of the Chair. Can we do two things? Can we, you know, do that precursory kind of planning to see if that's something we can do in that area. But also, I'm wondering if the if it is being thought about in the master plan. And I know the last time ms kenoki was here, she said there might be a workshop or something coming up soon, and maybe if there's an opportunity within that space where we can have some conversations about just areas in general that may benefit from this type of planning study. Because I know we have the strategic areas, and those are good and dandy, but there may be other areas, because that was almost 10 years ago. Maybe there may be other areas that we can cover through that workshop process with the master plan
Speaker 1
01:19:47right and through the and to you, Mr. Chair, that is the sort of catch all approach that this master plan is taking to really focus in on those areas that have not been recipients of the strategic planning the neighborhood plans, and to do the deeper dive, I'll turn it over to Mr. Jeffrey for any additional clarity on this, but I do believe that they are intending to go back out and hit spots in each district. So That's i
Unknown Speaker
01:20:34President Trump says,
Unknown Speaker
01:21:05Oh, I'm sorry for me.
Unknown Speaker
01:21:51Mr. Royster, are we okay?
Speaker 1
01:21:59I'm sorry if you would all a brief pause. Mr. Chair,
Unknown Speaker
01:22:02I'll just recess the meeting to the college.
Unknown Speaker
01:22:22Okay, I think we're all right.
Speaker 2
01:22:23Okay, so we will resume the meeting 642 so the question was, and it's not even a question, more of a statement, just, I'm just curious to where that line is from, neighborhood, strategic areas, and when we do enough neighborhood errors, we're really just doing the whole city. I'm just curious to to where that line is when we get into that conversation. I know there's in NSP one, NSP two. Is there three? Did three make it out yet?
Speaker 1
01:22:56But I think, Mr. Chair, I think you're right. I'm blanking on those. That's old maps. I'm gonna have
Speaker 2
01:23:01to do, yeah, old map. So, yeah, I know, if we, you know, eventually we keep adding areas, and you look at the map and you did most of the city, right? So I'm just curious what where that line is, where it's like, Okay, now we might as well just look at the city again as a whole, from a neighborhood framework standpoint. Or do we just keep doing these kind of neighborhoods piecemeal, and that gets us there
Speaker 1
01:23:25and again to that point, as we were, as Mr. Jeffrey and I stated earlier, the neighborhood frameworks were again a bit of a outgrowth of our efforts to come out of bankruptcy, where we were not doing just traditional planning, but we were looking to do planning that could result in immediate development in certain areas. So it was targeting areas that had certain growth potential, certain interests, certain activities that were already going on. I believe that going forward, we really are looking to move back to the more traditional approach, which is why the master plan has been spearheaded, obviously, with Mayor Duggan not seeking office again, we will be under the leadership of a new mayor and the direction that he or she takes, and that will be an opportunity for us to see if we will again continue in a more traditional Master Plan approach to these things, with some, maybe one off planning studies that may be done with particular goals in mind for a given geographic area or or some other policy initiative. But again, I think that for now, what we what we can do to your very point is we'll try to dig up those older maps, but the we can show you the framework map, and essentially what was presented, I think, actually was presented to the Commission quite a while ago, but presented to city council. So you can see the areas that do have something that you know. You can see the mapping where frameworks and neighborhood studies have been done, and you can see the remainder of the city, if you will, that the master plan is intended to cover while it also incorporates those neighborhood planning and strategic planning studies that have been done.
Speaker 2
01:25:10Thank you. All right, I see no other questions or comments, so I think we can go ahead and close this item up. Thank you for coming this evening. We appreciate it, and we look forward to seeing you at the next meeting. Okay, thank you. All right, it is 645 so I will call back the 6pm public hearing. This is to consider the request of Tina Castleberry to a man, Article X, VII, Section 50, 1760, Detroit map number 58 of the 2019, Detroit city code chapter 50 zoning to show a b2, local, local business and residential zoning classification, where A r3 low density residential zoning classification is currently shown at 4213, and 4225, West Davidson Avenue generally bounded by West Davidson Avenue to the north, petowski Avenue to the east, Waverly Avenue to the north, and Broad Street Avenue to the west. Miss sweat where you will be supporting us this evening with this item.
Speaker 12
01:26:23Mr. Chair, I will and our petitioners are walking in just now. Okay,
Speaker 2
01:26:27whenever they're ready, they can either join a seat next to you or sit at the back space, wherever they feel comfortable. And
Speaker 12
01:26:35Mr. Chair, once the slide show presentation is finished, the person that's going over the slides is going to switch back with one of the architects. Not a problem.
Speaker 2
01:26:47And if the applicants, if you want, you can sit in the front here, if that's where you feel comfortable.
Unknown Speaker
01:26:59If I go make you sit there if you don't want to. No, I don't buy it. I promise.
Unknown Speaker
01:27:17Whenever Can I share my screen? Yes, you may promote Thank
Speaker 12
01:27:33you, Mr. Chair, while we're doing that, if we could do a round of introductions to Marie Swed CPC staff, I'm
Unknown Speaker
01:27:39Maya Castleberry. Maya Castleberry,
Unknown Speaker
01:27:45evening Castleberry.
Unknown Speaker
01:27:49My name is David barduca.
Unknown Speaker
01:27:53You can
Unknown Speaker
01:27:55do it again. David barduca, you
Unknown Speaker
01:28:03and Tina Castleberry,
Unknown Speaker
01:28:04thank you. Welcome.
Speaker 12
01:28:06We do have our other participants sitting behind us as well. Robert Ross,
Unknown Speaker
01:28:11welcome.
Speaker 12
01:28:22Thank 
you, commissioners. So this rezoning is for the guarded bug located at 4225, and 4213, West Davidson, and that is located in district seven, close to the border of district two. And here you can see just a satellite, aerial, an aerial image, but I'm noticing that there's an issue with that. I do apologize. I've been having issues with one of the applications on my computer. Some background on this request. Miss Castleberry has petitioned to rezone from our three to b2 initially, the petition was for before, but after staff consideration b2 is now being requested, and this request is being made to permit the legal operation of an existing seasonal outdoor garden center. The zoning map here, with our current zoning shows it is low density residential right now, the r3 and you can see it's primarily surrounded by residential with business along Livernois, and there's a plan development just to the east of the site, and that is a religious use site. You can see here the bordering streets are West Davidson, Waverly to the south, Petoskey to the east, and Broad Street, which is off this map, to the west. I have a site plan 
here. I believe this is the most recent site plan, and you can see the markups along there and petitioners. You should have this as well in print, but this is markups made by city departments with some comments on things that need to be addressed or completed. As you can see, West Davison does not actually have parking on it, so that's something sure that you notice right away, and we can always come back to this. The petitioners also have another site plan as well. Just some images of the site. This is the entrance for the site on West Davidson and the existing building. Here it is a single family home that's being renovated to be used as part of this business. I will let Miss Castleberry speak more to what the the building will be used for, but it is for use by employees, as opposed to part of the actual business transactions. This view is from the alley looking towards save us in there is a active alley that runs along the site that you will also see, oh no, not this picture. And this is again, on West Davidson. This view is from Petoskey 
in West Davison. Looking towards the alley. You can see the building in there as well. And this is obviously one of the off seasons in this photo. And this is the alley itself, and you can see it's not improved. That's already in discussion as well. And again, a view from the alley.
+3
you, commissioners. So this rezoning is for the guarded bug located at 4225, and 4213, West Davidson, and that is located in district seven, close to the border of district two. And here you can see just a satellite, aerial, an aerial image, but I'm noticing that there's an issue with that. I do apologize. I've been having issues with one of the applications on my computer. Some background on this request. Miss Castleberry has petitioned to rezone from our three to b2 initially, the petition was for before, but after staff consideration b2 is now being requested, and this request is being made to permit the legal operation of an existing seasonal outdoor garden center. The zoning map here, with our current zoning shows it is low density residential right now, the r3 and you can see it's primarily surrounded by residential with business along Livernois, and there's a plan development just to the east of the site, and that is a religious use site. You can see here the bordering streets are West Davidson, Waverly to the south, Petoskey to the east, and Broad Street, which is off this map, to the west. I have a site plan 
+3
here. I believe this is the most recent site plan, and you can see the markups along there and petitioners. You should have this as well in print, but this is markups made by city departments with some comments on things that need to be addressed or completed. As you can see, West Davison does not actually have parking on it, so that's something sure that you notice right away, and we can always come back to this. The petitioners also have another site plan as well. Just some images of the site. This is the entrance for the site on West Davidson and the existing building. Here it is a single family home that's being renovated to be used as part of this business. I will let Miss Castleberry speak more to what the the building will be used for, but it is for use by employees, as opposed to part of the actual business transactions. This view is from the alley looking towards save us in there is a active alley that runs along the site that you will also see, oh no, not this picture. And this is again, on West Davidson. This view is from Petoskey 
+2
in West Davison. Looking towards the alley. You can see the building in there as well. And this is obviously one of the off seasons in this photo. And this is the alley itself, and you can see it's not improved. That's already in discussion as well. And again, a view from the alley. Unknown Speaker
01:32:10Who's responsible for improving the alley? That
Speaker 12
01:32:12would be the petitioner, if it's required as part of the site plan, I believe correct, Director, HUD, yes, that is to be Detroit.
Speaker 1
01:32:29Here. I'm sorry, just very, very quickly as Miss, Miss wet is indicating we do have a representative on from Building and Safety Engineering. I can speak more to it, typically in situations like this, if the alley is not being vacated. DPW, in conjunction with BC, will make certain requirements for improvements, whether it is to paving, making repairs and doing so to city standards in order to ensure that the alley can service the intended use associated with the proposed property, but then also continue to serve the other property owners, in this case, the residential properties to to the to the east. So there may, in fact, be some requirements that the petitioner will have to bear. Okay,
Unknown Speaker
01:33:09thank you. Apologies for cutting you all
Speaker 12
01:33:12um, 
thank you, Mister Chair. As you can see, the future land use map here, um, does show this is low to medium density residential with low density residential just west along the same block face there and neighborhood business along Livernois. And I received today the Master Plan interpretation for this shortly, I saw it shortly before the hearing and the subject parcels have been found by P and DD, or the rezoning of them has been found by P and DD to be generally consistent with the master plans designation. They do believe that it will have little impact on the traffic along West Davidson because of the size of the development and the type of business. It's for community input, and the petitioners going to speak more to their own community engagement. But this is the engagement that staff has had. CBC staff has received one letter of support. Additionally, staff attended a meeting of the Russell wood Sullivan area Association. At that time, we were informed that the petitioner had introduced the garden bug to the association a number of years ago, but they haven't had very recent contact. The staff also received, and I've included a 
few, a letter, as well as met with in person and over phone with an adjacent landowner directly to the south of this they the alley is what divides the two sites, and they sent some pictures. They have some concerns and comments about parking in the alley. And as you know, you received a packet with those with some additional images that I did not put on the slides, but just to give an idea of what they are talking about, which you'll hear more, I believe, during public comment. And the building in that center image on the screen that is the adjacent property owner who I'm speaking of property. And you can see that they have parking spots for their residents there to the right of the white car in the image. And I'm going to pass this on to Maya Castleberry so that she can present the slides for the petitioner. If that's okay, Mr. Chair,
+1
thank you, Mister Chair. As you can see, the future land use map here, um, does show this is low to medium density residential with low density residential just west along the same block face there and neighborhood business along Livernois. And I received today the Master Plan interpretation for this shortly, I saw it shortly before the hearing and the subject parcels have been found by P and DD, or the rezoning of them has been found by P and DD to be generally consistent with the master plans designation. They do believe that it will have little impact on the traffic along West Davidson because of the size of the development and the type of business. It's for community input, and the petitioners going to speak more to their own community engagement. But this is the engagement that staff has had. CBC staff has received one letter of support. Additionally, staff attended a meeting of the Russell wood Sullivan area Association. At that time, we were informed that the petitioner had introduced the garden bug to the association a number of years ago, but they haven't had very recent contact. The staff also received, and I've included a +1
few, a letter, as well as met with in person and over phone with an adjacent landowner directly to the south of this they the alley is what divides the two sites, and they sent some pictures. They have some concerns and comments about parking in the alley. And as you know, you received a packet with those with some additional images that I did not put on the slides, but just to give an idea of what they are talking about, which you'll hear more, I believe, during public comment. And the building in that center image on the screen that is the adjacent property owner who I'm speaking of property. And you can see that they have parking spots for their residents there to the right of the white car in the image. And I'm going to pass this on to Maya Castleberry so that she can present the slides for the petitioner. If that's okay, Mr. Chair, Unknown Speaker
01:35:54yes. Thank
Unknown Speaker
01:35:55you. Miss when, whenever you're ready.
Unknown Speaker
01:35:59Yep. Okay,
Speaker 13
01:36:02so 
hello. My name is Maya Castleberry, so a little bit about our story. So in 2014 the first location of the garden bug was purchased in historic Rosedale Park. By October of 2014 we were up and running for business. In 2020 after six successful years of the business, we decided that we wanted to look for another property by 2021 the garden bug. Second location was purchased in the Russell Woods area, and from 2022 to present the garden bug continues to work to get it up to the standard as our first location. So who is the garden bug? In this picture, you'll see that it is a picture of our current business on Grand River. So a little bit about us. We are the first black female owned and operated Garden Center in Detroit. We have two locations, 18, 901, Grand River and 4225, West Davidson. Slash 4213, West Davidson. We sell vegetable plants and seeds, patio furniture and decor. Bagged Miracle Grow and Scott's garden, soil, potting mix, mulch, yard decor, perennials and annuals, hanging baskets, fresh cut Christmas trees, cemetery gray blankets, porch pots, mums, pumpkin straw and tools and supplies needed to plant our 
inventory, we offer one on one tutorials on how to plant and maintain flower beds and gardens. So who is Tina? Tina is the sole owner of the garden book. She was born and raised in Highland Park. She received her bachelor's degree from the University of Detroit College. She has two kids, her son, Marcellus, who graduated from Henry Ford College, and myself, Maya, I graduated from the University of Michigan. She is a current resident of Highland Park, and she is passionate about gardening, traveling and reading. So who is the garden? Bugs? Target audience. We target median income. Our customer base currently has a median income between 40 to $100,000 we target community vegetable gardeners. Our number one clientele are gardeners creating community vegetable gardens and independent landscapers. We also target multicultural city and suburban gardeners. We have a very large customer base. Our clientele come from Ann Arbor, Redford, Canton, Dearborn, Hamtramck, Highland Park, Detroit, and we also target children and individuals with special needs. We do strive to make sure that we're hiring community members, especially high school students, veterans and adults with special needs. So about 4225, West Davidson. Our main goal for this property is to make Detroit beautiful one block at a time. It was built in 1928 vacant for 50 years, unsold in land bank for 31 years at the time of purchase, it had no roof, no windows, no floors, water damage, asbestos and piles of illegal dumping, such as tires, trash, roofing shingles and needles on the pictures on the side, you'll see the property. There were floors in the whole holes and floor holes in the ceiling, no windows, as you can see on the side. So what's been done so far? So to the house, we have 
added a new roof and framing 22 new windows, including 11 glass block windows in the basement and four skylights added. Asbestos has been removed, tuck pointing done, interior framing, floor joists throughout, two new doors, a dormer rebuilt and flood lights added to the property. A fence has been added. A cement walkway was poor. New porch and stairs were poor. 140 perennials planted around the perimeter of the house, and three trees have been planted for our outreach. We have done numerous outreach to neighbors and community members. We've also done outreach to community organizations such as brilliant Detroit and Russell and Sullivan wood block clubs. So why here? Why now? The need in Russell woods for a garden center is critical so people can grow their own, have employment opportunities and participate in the intimate gardening classes that we offer. The nearest garden center is currently 10 miles away. The closest being in Dearborn, Redford Ferndale or Madison Heights. So where are we now? What are we doing and what do we still need to do? We still need electrical, H back, dry wall and plumbing. We're finishing the inside of the house for an employee break room and bathroom, as Miss Webb had mentioned earlier, it will not be designated for customer use or entry. We're moving of the fence forward to allow for three customer parking spots in an additional 188 accessible spot employee spots are not needed. The employees include myself and people from the neighborhood who walk over or take an Uber. We are getting all of our violations corrected. The one we've done so far, we have removed the business sign from the fence, and we are currently working on getting it rezoned, where our goal for dlba is to meet their 
requirements for completing the construction of the house. Grants we've received thus far, we have received $25,000 from Gary Torgo at Huntington Bank, $20,000 from Detroit means business, $10,000 from tech town, D, E, G, C, and $65,000 from Motor City match. Currently, we have spent at least $185,000 towards the construction of the property, as we can see on the side. These are some renovations that we've done. These are just a few pictures that I've added. We have added a door, new shingles and a roof, as you can see, all the new windows, the floor has been patched up inside, the fence added and numerous other updates that we've made. And the last slide are the architect site plans that Miss wedge showed you earlier, and that's it. Thank you,
+1
hello. My name is Maya Castleberry, so a little bit about our story. So in 2014 the first location of the garden bug was purchased in historic Rosedale Park. By October of 2014 we were up and running for business. In 2020 after six successful years of the business, we decided that we wanted to look for another property by 2021 the garden bug. Second location was purchased in the Russell Woods area, and from 2022 to present the garden bug continues to work to get it up to the standard as our first location. So who is the garden bug? In this picture, you'll see that it is a picture of our current business on Grand River. So a little bit about us. We are the first black female owned and operated Garden Center in Detroit. We have two locations, 18, 901, Grand River and 4225, West Davidson. Slash 4213, West Davidson. We sell vegetable plants and seeds, patio furniture and decor. Bagged Miracle Grow and Scott's garden, soil, potting mix, mulch, yard decor, perennials and annuals, hanging baskets, fresh cut Christmas trees, cemetery gray blankets, porch pots, mums, pumpkin straw and tools and supplies needed to plant our +2
inventory, we offer one on one tutorials on how to plant and maintain flower beds and gardens. So who is Tina? Tina is the sole owner of the garden book. She was born and raised in Highland Park. She received her bachelor's degree from the University of Detroit College. She has two kids, her son, Marcellus, who graduated from Henry Ford College, and myself, Maya, I graduated from the University of Michigan. She is a current resident of Highland Park, and she is passionate about gardening, traveling and reading. So who is the garden? Bugs? Target audience. We target median income. Our customer base currently has a median income between 40 to $100,000 we target community vegetable gardeners. Our number one clientele are gardeners creating community vegetable gardens and independent landscapers. We also target multicultural city and suburban gardeners. We have a very large customer base. Our clientele come from Ann Arbor, Redford, Canton, Dearborn, Hamtramck, Highland Park, Detroit, and we also target children and individuals with special needs. We do strive to make sure that we're hiring community members, especially high school students, veterans and adults with special needs. So about 4225, West Davidson. Our main goal for this property is to make Detroit beautiful one block at a time. It was built in 1928 vacant for 50 years, unsold in land bank for 31 years at the time of purchase, it had no roof, no windows, no floors, water damage, asbestos and piles of illegal dumping, such as tires, trash, roofing shingles and needles on the pictures on the side, you'll see the property. There were floors in the whole holes and floor holes in the ceiling, no windows, as you can see on the side. So what's been done so far? So to the house, we have +2
added a new roof and framing 22 new windows, including 11 glass block windows in the basement and four skylights added. Asbestos has been removed, tuck pointing done, interior framing, floor joists throughout, two new doors, a dormer rebuilt and flood lights added to the property. A fence has been added. A cement walkway was poor. New porch and stairs were poor. 140 perennials planted around the perimeter of the house, and three trees have been planted for our outreach. We have done numerous outreach to neighbors and community members. We've also done outreach to community organizations such as brilliant Detroit and Russell and Sullivan wood block clubs. So why here? Why now? The need in Russell woods for a garden center is critical so people can grow their own, have employment opportunities and participate in the intimate gardening classes that we offer. The nearest garden center is currently 10 miles away. The closest being in Dearborn, Redford Ferndale or Madison Heights. So where are we now? What are we doing and what do we still need to do? We still need electrical, H back, dry wall and plumbing. We're finishing the inside of the house for an employee break room and bathroom, as Miss Webb had mentioned earlier, it will not be designated for customer use or entry. We're moving of the fence forward to allow for three customer parking spots in an additional 188 accessible spot employee spots are not needed. The employees include myself and people from the neighborhood who walk over or take an Uber. We are getting all of our violations corrected. The one we've done so far, we have removed the business sign from the fence, and we are currently working on getting it rezoned, where our goal for dlba is to meet their +1
requirements for completing the construction of the house. Grants we've received thus far, we have received $25,000 from Gary Torgo at Huntington Bank, $20,000 from Detroit means business, $10,000 from tech town, D, E, G, C, and $65,000 from Motor City match. Currently, we have spent at least $185,000 towards the construction of the property, as we can see on the side. These are some renovations that we've done. These are just a few pictures that I've added. We have added a door, new shingles and a roof, as you can see, all the new windows, the floor has been patched up inside, the fence added and numerous other updates that we've made. And the last slide are the architect site plans that Miss wedge showed you earlier, and that's it. Thank you, Speaker 2
01:41:58right, thank you. All right. Thank you for that well spoken presentation. Much appreciated. Thank you. Commissioners. Do have any questions of the applicant?
Unknown Speaker
01:42:12Commissioner Lewis, yeah, go right ahead.
Speaker 14
01:42:19Thank you, Mr. Chair. My question is to how many properties? My question is to staff, how many properties are involved here? Yes,
Speaker 12
01:42:30through the chair to Commissioner Lewis, there are two properties, but they have they are currently undergoing the process of having those parcels combined.
Speaker 14
01:42:41Yes, sorry, which property is owned by the Detroit land bank or are both owned by the Detroit land bank
Speaker 12
01:42:46through the chair to Commissioner Lewis. They are both owned by the applicant now they were purchased from the land bank.
Unknown Speaker
01:42:56Do we have the applicants? D
Speaker 12
01:43:01through the chair. No, we do not, but I can make sure to get that before the next hearing, or before the next time this is brought before the Commission, the
Speaker 14
01:43:15property information in the packet indicates that what is in the packet is relative to an option with the Detroit land bank
Speaker 12
01:43:27through the Chair. Yes, we that was something that was submitted to us, which also laid out all the requirements that the land bank had for the petitioner. But they have since then, this has been in process since 2021 so they have since then, completed the purchase. And they
Unknown Speaker
01:43:54the purchase was completed without the proper zoning
Speaker 12
01:43:59through the chair to Commissioner Lewis, that is my understanding.
Unknown Speaker
01:44:09But a deed was not submitted with the application
Speaker 12
01:44:13through the chair, unless I have not seen that Mr. Gulak may know better. All right, in case you didn't, he said he's going to double check.
Speaker 14
01:44:24Well, yes, I would need clarity on ownership.
Speaker 12
01:44:28And through the chair, when we started this process, the purchase agreement showed legal interest. But things have progressed since then.
Speaker 14
01:44:36Yes, I understand and with with a confirmation that this entity now owns the property the zoning, we need to understand ownership. In order to vote on this zoning, we need to be clear that it is no longer owned by the Detroit land bank.
Speaker 12
01:44:59Absolutely through the chair. I will be sure to get that and have that submitted to commissioners prior to the next time this comes before you.
Unknown Speaker
01:45:07Okay, thank you. My next questions have to do with this, this document that is showing I um, what I'm looking at is no parking along Davidson may not be allowed. Does this document relevant
Speaker 12
01:45:33through the Chair? Yes, it is. That is from November. The comments are and yes, parking along Davidson is not allowed.
Unknown Speaker
01:45:46Of course, I live in this community, and I'm, I is where, where would the patrons Park?
Unknown Speaker
01:45:57Through the Chair there is
Speaker 15
01:46:02share. Was
Speaker 12
01:46:10sharing 
that up as well. There are parking spots designated or shown on that site plan. There have p and d, d did request that those be perpendicular, as opposed to on the angle. There. We are still in discussion and are not entirely sure yet. We have not confirmed how many spots would be needed or through which process that determination will be and
+1
that up as well. There are parking spots designated or shown on that site plan. There have p and d, d did request that those be perpendicular, as opposed to on the angle. There. We are still in discussion and are not entirely sure yet. We have not confirmed how many spots would be needed or through which process that determination will be and Speaker 14
01:46:48so the placement of the dumpster and all of the other call outs on this site plan will be handled through staff at some point,
Speaker 1
01:47:01through the chair to member Lewis. So take this moment just of course, to remind the commission this is a standard rezoning. So the site plan, of course, is not subject to the rezoning as it would be in a PD or other district. But we have been, as you note, by the materials that have been submitted because of the length of time that the city has been working with Petitioner in order to develop a compliance site and address the issues that have been raised by Building and Safety Engineering. Site plan review has been done, whereas, certainly in other circumstances it would have been done, maybe subsequent to the rezoning taking place. So you do have a marked up site plan, indicating the issues that the city has identified, again, responding to what the what that site plan proposed, indicating that the proposed parking on West Davidson would not be allowed, no parking, also on Petoskey, and that on site parking would have to be provided, and as Miss wed indicated, one of the other responses is that they would require that that parking to be converted to perpendicular rather than angle. So yes, subsequent to the rezoning being complete, the site plan review process would be completed and filed with Building and Safety Engineering and the permitting process would begin from there, and once again, the petitioner would be responsible for submitting a compliant site plan. Thank
Speaker 14
01:48:30you, Director Todd, and my last question for staff has to do with community outreach and what I'm looking at in basically indicates that no one in the community has been addressed on this, this document here,
Speaker 12
01:48:54through the chair to Commissioner Lewis, something that i i and this was my fault. I forgot to add it into the slide show. Members of the Dons of the Department of neighborhoods did go door to door and spoke to some of the residents. And as I mentioned, this was brought before the Russell Sullivan or Russell wood Sullivan area Association back when they were first starting. And as far as that there, we've received communications with the neighbor and the the public hearing notice was sent out to 400 feet, as opposed to the 300 in any other Oh, and then I attended, or staff attended, the Russell Woods meeting yesterday evening, and I was able to speak with the president of the association, and so that has been the public hearing was then email blasted out to all members of that association, okay,
Unknown Speaker
01:50:14and my Next questions are for the applicant. Help me understand? That the building is not complete. When did when did you buy the building? When did you close the transaction with the Detroit land bank?
Speaker 16
01:50:33That would have been June 2021 well, we purchased it October of 2019, but with the COVID pandemic, it was just difficult to close and sign off on everything. So it was finalized in June of 2021,
Speaker 14
01:51:02would you, by any chance have a deed to the property with you?
Unknown Speaker
01:51:09No, but I can get it for
Speaker 14
01:51:14you. Okay, so help me understand the delay in the completion of the building.
Unknown Speaker
01:51:27You want to know what else needs to be done?
Speaker 14
01:51:29No, I want to know what, what has caused the delay the building was purchased in 2021 right,
Speaker 16
01:51:39and purchase in 2019, Now, originally, when we signed off, it was down in St Clair Shores. We signed off with the title company and everything, they told me that we had six to seven months to clear the debris, cut the trees, get Windows in, put a roof on and at least get it in a safe, habitable state. And with that being said, that's what we jump into doing, securing the property and making sure there was no more legal dumping and things like that. And then somewhere, somewhere online, Dave Walker contacted me and said, you know you're supposed to rezone it first, and then go to doing that. I wasn't aware of that. Land Bank just said, try to hurry up and complete the build out in six to eight months, is what they told us. The timeline was. So with the paperwork submitting this, admitting that it's just been, it's been a few delays with the meeting with people and getting zoom meetings, but everyone's been very diligent. It just hasn't moved really quick,
Speaker 14
01:52:41okay, I would say that in your option, the land bank does indicate that you need to get the zoning. As a matter of fact, the zoning should have been done by April 22 of 2021 the option expired on april 22 of 2021 because the zoning did not occur. Okay, I'd like to, I'd like to ask you some questions about the site itself. Do you feel that the site is large enough for what you are attempting to do there? Yes, okay, will you be able to accommodate that parking on site? Yes, I drive by there and I see where there's quite a bit of flowers and gardening kinds of things that fill the entire site. There's a lot of activity there, and it looks that it could be a very successful business. My concern is that the impact that it is having on the surrounding residents, the impact that it has had on the traffic patterns along Davidson Avenue, I have come down Davidson myself, and there have been orange cones on Davidson causing the traffic to have to go around. There have been various commercial type vehicles parked there that has caused very, in my mind, very serious traffic patterns. And when I look at the site, I I'm not the specialist or the professional in this kind of thing by any means. When I look at the congestion on the site, I just wonder how this zoning would would go, whether or not you could successfully run the business, and that's up to you. Well, you know, whether you want to open it or not. My only concern is whether or not the zoning and how the approval of this zoning will impact the quality of life of those families that are living around this business. Have you talked with the Jehovah Witness church about possibly sharing some of the parking or leasing some of their parking for your business?
Speaker 16
01:55:09They shop there, and I believe they fellowship on Saturdays, but for the last four or five months, I haven't seen anyone there, so I'm not sure if they're having services online,
Speaker 14
01:55:19I would suggest, because, again, my position here is simply as to how this business impacts the quality of life for those individuals that live around this business. And I can tell you from my personal experience, I do live in that community coming up Davidson. It's very surprising when there are orange cones on Davidson. There are 50, 60,000 cars going down Davidson daily, and for those own orange cones to be out out there, backing up traffic. I mean, that is a that is a negative for the quality of life, and to turn the corner and not be 
able to turn the corner going that would be south on Petoskey, that has a very, a very harsh and negative impact on the quality of life, one of the things. And again, this is only as to how this business and of course, I wish you great success. I'm only speaking to how this business impacts the quality of life for individuals living in that community. I see the cars parked in the alley. I see the cars parked on the street. And I I'm just, I'm not sure whether the the amount of I'm just not sure the size of the of the lot, it would accommodate the amount of individuals you have coming there. And I don't know if that's out of my that's just my perspective regarding
+1
able to turn the corner going that would be south on Petoskey, that has a very, a very harsh and negative impact on the quality of life, one of the things. And again, this is only as to how this business and of course, I wish you great success. I'm only speaking to how this business impacts the quality of life for individuals living in that community. I see the cars parked in the alley. I see the cars parked on the street. And I I'm just, I'm not sure whether the the amount of I'm just not sure the size of the of the lot, it would accommodate the amount of individuals you have coming there. And I don't know if that's out of my that's just my perspective regarding Speaker 16
01:57:14the quality of life, I want to say probably 40% of the clients to shop over there over the age of 65 many of them have Ms. Many of them have had strokes, many of them have had heart attacks. So the accessibility of a garden sitter in their neighborhood for basic things like dirt, collard green, basic things like a rake, a broom, a shovel, it definitely improves their quality of life, they have to go at least to Dearborn Redford or Madison Heights for the next closest Home Depot garden center. So with that being said, I understand,
Speaker 14
01:57:49I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying is in terms of what is going on for the business on the corner and how it impacts the residents that are living there on behind the business. How it impacts me personally, coming down Davidson, making that right turn, I am not I am not saying that this is a not a good thing for you to do. I'm just presenting you with my thoughts in terms of moving this zoning forward, that's all. I'm only speaking to the quality of life. I do know that different people will shop there, and probably and would continue to shop there. The only thing that I'm asking you to consider as you move forward with this zoning request is how you're going to mitigate the situation with the parking and the situation with the congestion of traffic, that's all I'm asking you to do. I'm not saying not. I'm not saying your business is negative. I'm talking about the impact that it is having on that corner. Okay,
Speaker 16
01:58:55the incidents that you speak about regarding the combs out building inspections came out and said he would prefer, this is Ronald Youngblood would prefer if we did loading and unloading off of Davidson. So if you're driving by and see cones outside, is either forgotten harvest, doing a food delivery for the low income and homeless in the area, or we're getting a flower or pumpkin delivery. So we put combs out for probably 30 minutes to 45 minutes so we can unload the truck, and then the truck pulls off. So the combs are not out there all day. They're not out there every day. This is a business is only open May, June, October and December, so only there four months out of the year.
Speaker 14
01:59:37Buildings and safety indicated that they wanted you. They wanted
Speaker 16
01:59:41it loaded and unloaded. Yes, we do a food pantry on Fridays and then during the week, occasionally, maybe three times during the summer, once in October and four times in December. We have a delivery. So we put homes out to give people a chance to merge over
Speaker 14
01:59:58the well, I can't say that. I've seen trucks unloading on loading and unloading on Davis, and that would be very I mean, but if that's what buildings and safety indicated you should do, of course that's what you should do. I just Davidson has 50,000 cars coming down at 40 to 50 miles an hour, so I you know. But if that's what Building and Safety has instructed you to do, certainly that's what you should do. I'm just saying to you that I would like to see a little less congestion on the corner, and I would like to understand the impact that this business is having on the adjacent residents, and I don't have that here, okay. Thank you. Mr. Chair.
Speaker 12
02:00:49Mr. Chair, if I can address a few of those things on the most recent site plan, it does show a space for loading and unloading in the alley, and we do have Jada Filson from B seed online that can maybe speak to the whether or not that is ideal for on West Davidson.
Speaker 14
02:01:14Yes, I Yes. I would be very interested to hear what she has to say.
Speaker 17
02:01:21Good evening commissioners Jada Filson, representing the building department, um, to speak on the loading and unloading. Um that the applicant indicated that inspector Young Blood gave her, um, I guess, permission to unload and unload on Davidson, BC does not have the authority to dictate anything in the right away. We only permit and enforce on parcels that would be a DPW authority so but we can indicate on the site plan that unloading and unloading takes place in the alley through DPW, but we can't dictate anything on Davis and on the streets.
Speaker 14
02:02:18Okay? Thank you very much. Miss Pilsen Understood.
Speaker 2
02:02:28Thank you, Mr. Chair, thank you, Miss Where did you have anything else you wanted to add that to that? Mr. Chair, all right, thank you. And I did have just a couple follow up questions. I think these are primarily the staff. While I'm not a flower expert, I probably, my first job was a flower shop, so I was, I'm very familiar with flower shops and all that goes along with it, and flats and all those things. So I like, I like, what you're doing. My question for staff is this parcel is zoned r3 on the other side of petowski, the next two parcels are zoned, PD, and then if you go the other way down Davidson, those parcels are also zoned. Are three across the street is our three. Kitty corner is a mix of, I think, our two and our three. And then behind this parcel, you know, those are all zoned r2, so my question is, and this may come up in the formal pre master planning considerations, is, how are we not creating a spot zone with this b2 district. And if there is a desire of staff, and staff thinks this is appropriate, can staff look at going down Jefferson, Jefferson, Davidson, the other way towards livernoid, and see if those parcels may also should also be zone b2 I know there's a gentleman that owns a good chunk of those parcels. It looks privately held, not by the applicant. Between this site and the church on the other end. I don't know how much that individual has to be engaged. And then there's the church next to them. So I'm just curious on that whole kind of block blocking and booking to book in, if it's appropriate that that entire area be b2 to support this parcel being b2 so yeah, if staff could look into that, or I don't know if you've already looked at it, and you have an answer already, but you know, just my observation is everything here is is residential, and the next general business is over on Livernois. But you know, I think my memory correct parts of Davidson are commercial and various other spots. So if you just look at it, I'm just curious to how we can do that, you know, to accommodate, or at least just to make better the petition itself.
Speaker 12
02:05:15Yes, Mr. Chair, to answer the spot zoning question. So this would not be creating a illegal spot zone. So there is a difference this. The b2 is because it's local business and residential. It does fit within the same context as an r3 so that is something that we considered and looked into additionally. There has been conversations about how much to rezone here, and we can definitely, as your requests, we can definitely look into that further and come back with answers on that and that and you are correct, as I mentioned, I've been having some issues with my computer. I did want to show a larger map of the area with the zoning, but because further down there is before and b6
Unknown Speaker
02:06:21as well. I'm sorry, away from Livernois,
Speaker 12
02:06:23yeah, on the other side of Livernois,
Speaker 2
02:06:28yeah, because it's that gas station and all that stuff over there. And
Speaker 12
02:06:33Director Todd was, was just saying that from Dexter as well. Going east is also a mix of business districts and so, but that is definitely something that we can look, look into. I do know it is primarily vacant land, other than the one institutional use and their parking along that stretch.
Speaker 2
02:06:54Our church is allowed and be too, just you may not know this update on Yes, okay, thank you. That answers all my questions. Commissioners. Commissioner Daniels,
Speaker 8
02:07:07thank you, Mr. Chair. I noticed here in this document, Exhibit B and exhibits B, here deeds a, quick claim D, from the land bank to the garden bug, the bug, we have the garden bug. Then there's another reconveyance deed from the garden bug to the land. There. Has any of these deeds been executed? I
Unknown Speaker
02:07:39didn't hear the question, there
Speaker 8
02:07:41are two deeds in this packet that we have, one from the land bank to your organization, and then the reconveyance deeds from your organization to the land bank, both dated August 4 of 2021 has any of these deeds been signed and recorded At the Register of Deeds? We did all that.
Speaker 16
02:08:05So I'm not sure that about the confusion, but we did that immediately. She told us, I think we had a week or two weeks to file it.
Speaker 8
02:08:13Well, okay, so it's a quick so if they quit quick claim the property to you after you purchased it, you reconveyed it back to the land bank? No, that's what this D says here. That's what I'm trying to get some clarity on. Yeah,
Speaker 16
02:08:27she filled out the paperwork out. Just gave us an envelope and told us we had to mail it in
Unknown Speaker
02:08:35this red Do you have any
Speaker 12
02:08:38through the chair to Commissioner Daniels, we will investigate further into that. As far as we were aware, Miss Casselberry is the deed holder. I know there's some discrepancies online between our different systems that you can use to look up parcel data so that is already being looked into. So
Unknown Speaker
02:09:04have you seen these two deeds here? Yes,
Unknown Speaker
02:09:07I know which in the purchase agreement, it
Speaker 8
02:09:10has the release of interest in real property.
Unknown Speaker
02:09:13Yeah, thank you. Wasn't aware of that, but
Speaker 12
02:09:15she still does have legal interest. There was a recent meeting. I'm
Speaker 8
02:09:20not disputing that. I'm just asking, why are there two deeds, one from the land bank to the bike of the garden bug, and then simultaneously, one from the garden bug to the land bank, one for $7,500 the other one is for one. Doubt.
Unknown Speaker
02:09:42Yes. Commissioner Lewis, yes.
Speaker 14
02:09:49That is that is also a part of my concern. Generally, when a an entity purchasing land from the Detroit land bank does not adhere to the requirements, they are required to sign a deed that would revert the property back to the land bank at some point. So I understand what you're saying. That could very well be a deed resting at the land bank. I but that's one of the things that we need clarity on, exactly.
Speaker 8
02:10:19Thank you, because if that deed is recorded and the title search is done on the property, it will show that the land bank still owns the property. It'd be a the chain would be complete, but there will be a discrepancy before they bought it on this day, then they simultaneously quit claiming back to the land bank. They bought it for 7500 and gave it back for $1 we just need some clarity, so I'm just asking,
Unknown Speaker
02:10:44yeah, I wasn't aware of that.
Unknown Speaker
02:10:47Thank you. Commissioner Daniels, Director Ty,
Speaker 1
02:10:51thank you. We will certainly verify. But I believe, as Commissioner Lewis has indicated, this is part of the reversionary process, the city will do something similar with some land sales, there are always terms of reversion. And again, I think as MS wed has indicated, as petitioners indicated, when the deal was entered into, there were parameters given and a time frame so the title might transfer. But there is an opportunity wherein the things, if requirements have not been complied with that they can start the reversionary process. I believe that the deed is there in order to prepare presupposing, or again, in preparation for that instance arising, you've already got the mechanism in place, okay?
Speaker 8
02:11:36So if it's completed and complied with, and they'll just destroy that deed Exactly, okay,
Speaker 1
02:11:42okay. But again, we will verify. Thank you. Commissioner Bennett,
Speaker 6
02:11:48thank you, Mr. Chair. The presentation discussed the amount of funds that had been awarded to the petitioner to work on the facility. Correct
Speaker 12
02:11:59through the chair to Commissioner Bennett, yes, the petitioners presentation did okay, and that was $180,000
Unknown Speaker
02:12:09I remember correctly. I think
Unknown Speaker
02:12:11through the chair I'm pulling that up now. I
Unknown Speaker
02:12:23uh, yeah, right here, yeah,
Speaker 12
02:12:26it looks like what's listed on here would be $120,000
Unknown Speaker
02:12:34the quoted number was 180
Speaker 6
02:12:37so there are grants separate from these. The total that 180 or is, or is the 180 that was stated incorrect,
Speaker 12
02:12:49um, through the chair that Miss Cass berry would have that information I am not aware. The the one that I am familiar with would be the Motor City match, okay.
Speaker 6
02:13:02Oh, with these were they all for the restoration of the building, or some meant for the business?
Speaker 16
02:13:10Gary Turgot is a, I want to say, a friend, but very generous man, and he gave us $25,000 out of his personal funds to do with what we want. So with that $25,000 we use it towards the purchase of the property and to get the asbestos removed the lot cleaned off, that's we use the 25,000 for Detroit means business was a grant primarily for technology architect or land design. So we decided to use it for technology towards our Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok, that kind of thing. So we utilize those funds for that Motor City match, of course, was supposed to be for either purchasing inventory or the rehab of the home, correct? And all the rest of the funds have been my personal funds. Okay?
Speaker 6
02:13:55Thank you for that clarification. I was just wondering I'm in construction. At first I heard 180,000 and I was compared that to the progress that made on the property itself. I just want to get clarification on that. So you've replaced all the windows or roof, you've done new structural framing, but you still have not been able to do MEP, mechanical, electrical and plumbing
Speaker 16
02:14:18yet. Yeah, the city told us to wait, because we came down with the builder slash carpenter to complete the work on the inside, to meet land banks specifications. With that, they said, Nope, can't pull a permit until you get architect drawn. So two architects, hey, those two, that was in end of August, I believe we started, and they said, Oh, can't take the architect drawings until you get those approved, and didn't get a result, so you still can't finish the build out. So it's really been on pause for the last seven, eight months, okay?
Speaker 6
02:14:51And through this process, you have kept the land bank aware of the hurdles obstacles. Because I know with the the as as our my fellow Commissioners talking about the deed and the deed of reconveyance, you need to keep them regularly updated, or if you're having headwinds, we'll say to make sure that they're aware so that it does not enact that reconveyance process. Someone
Speaker 16
02:15:16reached out to me probably three weeks ago and was kind of curious why it wasn't completed yet. And I explained it to her. She was not aware. So land bank is now aware. Amanda Watts is who we started with. That's who we send, and text and email all of our photos and updates and what we're working on on a monthly basis. Amanda Watts had been off on some sort of a medical so I wasn't able to email her, and she sort of lost a change. So we stopped sending photos. So someone from land bank, a higher up, like a supervisor, reached out to me three weeks ago and said, Okay, let's get back on track. Let's send us pictures and just kind of keep us updated on what's going on once a month so they are aware now, as of two weeks ago, that it is not completed, but we do have an architect. We are at a hearing today, so they're aware of, you know, the steps we're taking.
Speaker 6
02:16:09Okay, thank you. No more questions at this time. Thank
Speaker 2
02:16:13you, Commissioner Bennett, any other questions? All right, I do not see any other questions. This is a public hearing, so I will open the public hearing, and similar to our last public hearing, as an opportunity for the community and residents to participate, provide comments, input and or questions. And there are two ways of participating. If you are attending this meeting virtually and want to participate in the public hearing for this item, you can express your desire to do so by raising your hand virtually within the platform, and we will move you over. And if you are attending here in person and want to participate in public hearing, make sure you get these yellow staff cards to staff, and then they'll bring them to the front, and then you will be acknowledged in that fashion. Can we start online? Ms, sweat. Do you have any virtual hands raised?
Speaker 12
02:17:06Mr. Chair, there are currently no hands raised online. Okay,
Speaker 2
02:17:13well, we'll go in person and double back. Give a chance. All right, I do have four cards in front of me. So if you are here in person and you have not got a yellow staff card to the front, I will not call you. The first person I have is Travis Dennis, followed by Ernestine Hawkins and Jamila heaven. And then what you can do is here to my left, your right, there are two microphones. You can go to those podiums, and then when you are ready to speak, tap the base of the microphone. It will turn from red to green. And then you have two minutes.
Speaker 2
02:18:00And while they are teeing up Miss sweat, do we have any? Think we have a handful of support for the garden bug and other documents. I just want to acknowledge that we do have those
Speaker 12
02:18:14through the Chair. Yes, you have those. There is one other communication coming from the adjacent landowner that, yeah, but it is one that has also been submitted to some that was sent to some other entities throughout the
Speaker 2
02:18:32city. Okay, is this the landowner to the rear? Yes, okay, all right, thank you. Let's see Mr. Davis whenever you're ready. Two minutes, yep, yep. Did it turn green?
Speaker 18
02:18:49Hello, everybody. My name is Travis Dennis, and I'm an investor at the property of 4202 Waverly, and I'm just here to speak in regards to the parking issue that's taking place. I have personally had an issue with people who park in regard in the alley, because the parking is a parking lot that has four spots. If you park in that spot and someone comes in the alley, they'll block you in. So if you're trying to come out of that alley and they inside of the garden bug, you have to wait for them to come out, or you have to go over there and actually get them, like, hey, I need to get out. Gotta go to work or whatever. So it's actually really blocking us. We spoke with the owner in regards to rectifying the situation, we've put up signs that say, no parking. This is residential parking. We have barriers that are blocking the actual residential parking, and they're still going around the burial not the owners, but the customers, going around the barriers and parking. So in the climate that we in right now, you never know how someone's attitude is. So I can get out my car and say, Hey, can you move your car if they having a bad day, that can go left real easily. So I'm just speaking in regards to trying to prevent any issues that may occur, and that's all I gotta say.
Unknown Speaker
02:20:06Okay, thank you. Miss Hawkins. Whenever you're ready, just tap the mic.
Speaker 11
02:20:20Hi. My name is Ernestine Hawkins. I'm the property owner at 40 at 4202 and 4210 Waverley, located in Detroit. I'm here to bring attention to the ongoing Park parking issue affecting my property. For the past two years, I have tried to resolve this matter, but have faced constant resistance and push back this issue stem to from the garden bug. The garden bug traffic that's been open. The facility was open since 2023 I understand that Miss Castleberry is trying to get her area rezoned, but my question is, if she's allowed to get this property resolved, is that a resolution for her to stop having her employees direct her customers onto my property? I've got a four semen slab, and then I have a four car garage that's a total of eight parking spots back there. The Alley is not big enough for two cars. I have been spit at. I have I've had a young man pull out his penis and piss on my property because he was upset that I asked him to move. I I'm for her being successful, because I'm a business owner too. I just want her. She needs to get in control of her parking I before she put that six foot fence up there, my ex husband and myself spoke with her, and she refused to speak to us. I called neighborhood policing. Donald Parker. He came out and told me, I need to get along with her. I've been to the 10th precinct. I've been to the third precinct. The people at the 10th precinct, that which is Donald Parker, he ignored me. I went there three times, and all three times they put him in front of me. The third time I said, I only want to talk to you. He said, Okay, fine. Went to the third precinct. I talked to a Christopher. Christopher Gibson. He guaranteed me he was going to take care of the situation. He was going to give me a call back after his vacation. Never heard from him. I went up to the third precinct, he wouldn't even come down to talk to me. Now, Miss Castleberry is talking to the guy next door to me. I got his name in the phone saying she has inside connections, and she know people down here at the city. Well, it seemed to be true, because if anybody with some common sense go out there and just look at it, it's a big mess. It's dangerous. They trespassing on my property. And like I said, I'm not against her. I want her to
Speaker 2
02:23:08be successful. I gotta cut you short. Everyone has two minutes. I apologize. Um, if you want to give additional comments, I just direct you to staff, and then they'll kind of circulate that information back to us. Okay, sorry, but thank you. All right, next we have Jamila Hepburn and then Indra Hawkins.
Speaker 19
02:23:30Okay, hi, I'm Jamila Hepburn and I have more something prepared. I'm a future investor, but it's contingent on this being resolved. The Waverly Davidson County created a culture that perpetuated the infringement of a resident of the city of Detroit, Miss Hawkins. And as a registered voter, I am compelled to explain why the rezoning of this business should only be encouraged with stipulations that the business owner provide parking for her customers, which will stop them from parking on Miss Hawkins, residential property. I ask that you enforce the rules of the planning department. I ask that the zoning department recognize residential support of the business, establishing a business in a manner without considering parking disturbances, take away from loyal Detroiters having faith in what is fair and equitable. Unfortunately, the home and business owners become casualties. Where's the accountability and how did we fail to protect the city's stakeholders while cutting the ribbon? I would like to mention that this meeting should not represent this meeting should not represent a resident having to find the perfect words to convince a council of how, of why we did not talk about this prior to the opening of the flower shop, this meeting should not represent city officials choosing to ignore this problem for two years. However, I choose to express to you good people what this meeting is about. It's about a resolution that supports integrity and accountability. This meeting represents the intentions of a resident to bring light to why zoning for businesses in residential areas should be taken seriously and timely enforced. This meeting represents why home owners, business owners, as well as city officials should work together to support the viability of Detroit. It's Detroit versus everybody, not Detroit versus each other. We must continue to enhance what makes Detroit its own Mecca. We must strive to support our residents that have remained active and productive in the community. We must spend less time writing letters to solve a problem that never should have existed to begin with, in more time the word out to vote in the mayoral election. Sorry, I got a cut in short,
Speaker 2
02:25:49alright. But if you do have that in writing, I just recommend you give it to staff, and they'll include it as a part of the I appreciate that. Thank you. All right, and the last public comment I have in person. Is Indra Hawkins, okay.
Speaker 10
02:26:03Good evening, everybody. My name is India Hawkins. I am here on behalf of the Waverly properties. Miss Ernestine is my mother, myself and my brother. We are registered nurses, and at that property we are catering to the elderly, the handicapped, the people that need when they need emergency services, or just anyone to come and check on them, we have to be able to get to them. So having cars blocking the entry is just not going to work. One is not safe, and it's a hazard. This has been an ongoing thing. It's been about two years, as you can see from everybody's testimony over here, it's upsetting. I just feel that this whole situation, it shouldn't even have to get to this point, because it could have been resolved the right way when everyone reached out to the appropriate departments, I just asked that this get rectified before you know, something happens, I mean, and it's just we the climate that we live in in these days. You just don't know people's temperament, and like I said, the caliber of people that we are going to be catering to. They need to be able to get we need to be able to get to them. And that's it.
Speaker 2
02:27:28Thank you. And can you just clarify which property over there is yours? 42
Unknown Speaker
02:27:344202 and 42 twin.
Speaker 2
02:27:38Waverly, Waverly, Waverly. Okay, thank you. All right. I think that concludes all of our comments in person. I'll give you a moment later, miss, I got you. I will just give me a moment. Miss sweat, do you have any other attend participants virtually? Mr.
Speaker 12
02:27:57Chair, I am not seeing any hands raised online. Okay
Speaker 2
02:28:01with that, I will close the public hearing for this item, and if you want to take a moment to provide any responses to any questions you heard, and then I'll allow my commissioners to speak. Microphone, please. Microphone, please.
Speaker 16
02:28:17Thank you. I appreciate all the comments and feedback. The reason why the reason why the police no longer come out, she's called the DPD on me at least a dozen times. Yes, people have urinated. Yes, she comes in with her Henry Ford vehicle. She does not live there, neither one of the property. She swears to customers. She spits at them. It has been a real mess. Have we lost customers behind that? Yes, she comes out and literally bullies everybody out there. She's brought customers to tears. So with that being said, this is one side of the story. That's why the police stop coming because of her behavior. I mean, when they show up, she Yeah, it's a mess. It when I say it's a real mess, it's a real mess. And and then, like DPD said, if you wanted the property, you should have bought it. It's been there 50 years and land bank for 31 years. You should have bought the property because they were parking on it prior to me fencing it in. So I'm trying to be as neighborly as possible. I do have a lot of special needs and handicapped people that come. Nobody has a problem with scooting up or scooting back. She does not need to get out and swear and holler. She's putting broken glass in the alley. It's turned into an all out bullying incident, is really what's happening.
Speaker 2
02:29:33Okay? Thank you, commissioners. Do you have any comments or questions? Commissioner Lewis, Commissioner Daniels, and then Commissioner Russell, yeah,
Speaker 16
02:29:48what I would, what I would architect would like to say something to when you get a
Speaker 14
02:29:55minute, let's let the architect have his say, and then that way, maybe he shed some light on this matter. Go right ahead, sir.
Speaker 20
02:30:03All right, when we were looking at this and microphone, please, sir, when we, when we were first looking at the site, you know, the the site plan that you guys have is really just this schematic site plan. It was just to show intent, show something that could be developed on the property. There's other ways to do it that would be less intrusive to the people that are back here that have complaints about the alley parking. I mean, if I kind of like to show you guys what I've just done in paper in a few minutes, I could pass it around to you, but it shows a different parking site that we could possibly do that would even add more parking with just one entrance, and the people would not be in the alley whatsoever. Pass that around. Would you guys like us here,
Speaker 2
02:30:53I will give it to staff, and staff will get it to us, primarily because we're here to discuss the zoning text amendment. So I don't want to get too deep into site planning, right? And staff will kind of give us recommendations on site planning. So I mean, again,
Speaker 20
02:31:07the site plan that you have was, you know, very schematic, and, you know, there's other ways to do it. I didn't understand that the parking and the Alley was going to be such a problem, yeah, but I do think that we could rectify it by showing a different parking Okay.
Speaker 2
02:31:24Well, if you, if you have another version that addresses these concerns, you know, we, when this item comes back, we would like to see those things, so we'll let you kind of work it out with staff, and then you can kind of get it to us. Okay, okay. Commissioner Lewis, I'm sorry, Miss sway. Commissioner Lewis, oh,
Speaker 12
02:31:44if, if we can figure it out, Mr. Chair ms, peralez, is going to attempt to make copies with our new copy machine, so that you guys will have that site plan before the end of the meeting. You
Speaker 2
02:31:58want it today? Wait later, get it later. Yeah, give it to us at the next meeting. And
Speaker 12
02:32:03I was also going to comment on some of the comments earlier regarding the the nature of communications between the property owners there, I will reach out to unfortunately, I had planned on doing this the NPO MPO Parker was not able to be there at the Russell Woods meeting last night, but I will reach out and try to get a full scope of what has occurred in these situations. Okay.
Speaker 2
02:32:40Sounds good. Thank you. Commissioner Lewis,
Speaker 14
02:32:46I just wanted to speak to the residents, and that is exactly the kind of thing that we need to know in making these zoning decisions. Again, as I round the corner or from Davidson east to Petoskey south the area and to the owner. The area is very congested, as the residents have indicated, in these times, you don't know what's going to happen. And not only that, more importantly, the customer should not be parking in the alley. The customer should be parking on the street or on the site, and again, in terms of quality of life, this is why I brought that up previously. That is my concern. When I round that corner, I don't have to stop to know that there are problems there, because there is too much congestion behind those homes with cars. Consequently, when anyone is trying to get out. Think of it. If you were trying to get out of your driveway, wherever you live, and someone were blocking you in, that is not a good situation, and that is what I'm speaking to in terms of this zoning. Those issues must be resolved. We do not want individuals to find themselves in a very precarious situation based on a flower shop in that community, that situation must be resolved, in my opinion, before you can get that zoning, those residents deserve to be able to live in their homes, get in their cars and get to where they need to go. 24/7, that is their property. So your organization needs to determine how you're going to keep your customers off of their property, perhaps an, oh, I think they call it an opaque wall where you're, you're, you're, you're really not able to get around now, you can't stop people from going in the alley, but the way the site is set up right now. That's the first place they're going to go. That's the place they think they're all that they think that's their their parking area. So I hope that I would say to Director Todd, I hope that what I am indicating here is within the guidelines of this commission. At this time, I am disinclined to approve this zoning, as long as the residential property owners adjacent to that business are having that those kinds of problems. Resolve those problems, and everything is fine. As far as I'm concerned, you need several other votes to get what you want.
Speaker 2
02:36:06Thank you Mr. Chair. Thank you, Commissioner Lewis, Commissioner Daniels.
Speaker 8
02:36:12Thank you, Mr. Chair. So based on the architect's new plan, how many additional parking spaces would be on that
Speaker 20
02:36:22property. You know, we haven't actually been told how many we needed, but I think we could fit in between eight and 10 parking spaces on the property, so access through the alley, but they'll turn into a parking lot, so nobody would stay in the alley, and it would be adjacent, right next to the dumpster, so they'll turn in right past the dumpster, go into a parking lot, and I think we can fit eight to 10 cars, and, yeah, street parking as well, correct? Um, I don't know if there is street parking Davidson. I mean, we've, we've heard that you can and can't, so it was a big concern for me, more than 10 spaces at once. But you can talk to that, but be
Speaker 16
02:37:08honest with you, normally, there's only two to three people there at a time. And let's remind ourselves, this is a garden center, and we sees it on and we pop up. So we're only open May, June, October and December. So you have eight months. There's nobody there. We're over there cutting grass and picking up trash and paper. So with that being said, this isn't 12 months out of the year. So I really don't want to overthink this. People come. They stay 10 minutes, they pick up their things, and they're gone. Nobody's hanging out and staying for hours. You know, we're not serving champagne on the side. They're not coming inside the house. They literally make their purchase. We load them up like higher than local teenagers to load the car. So everything is facilitated very quickly. I
Speaker 8
02:37:52understand that, but again, I'm looking at because I had a similar situation over on the east side. We'll get into that another time. The residents need to be able to get in and out of their properties, right? No, kind of
Speaker 16
02:38:04hassle. Yeah, nobody's blocking the alley that long ever
Speaker 8
02:38:07Well, period, it's Jimmy block. In my opinion, Jimmy block is all because people want to come in and go out, and they shouldn't have to wait. If somebody is in the store for 10 minutes or whatever have along in it, they
Speaker 16
02:38:18never have to wait. That would be an over exaggeration to say that building inspection said, as long as we pull past her property, it's not a problem at all. She does not own. It's a right of way for both cars to pass. So when he came out, he said, as long as your past her property, or your customers pull up, just pass the gate, it's not a problem. So you're you're making something out of Yeah, a hater. That's a good word. A hater. Mr.
Unknown Speaker
02:38:47Chair, if I can
Speaker 8
02:38:50just kind of confrontational stuff like that. I mean, yeah, you're all a neighbor. You're a business owner over there, you're still a neighbor, even though you don't lay your head there at night. But people need to get together in these communities and work together. I agree. That's what make your dream work really.
Unknown Speaker
02:39:05I agree, and I'm a
Speaker 16
02:39:08good neighbor. I mean, the neighbors on the block come over. I give them moms, I give them pumpkins. I come over and consult in their yard. I come over when I have grass seeds left over. I'm not a bad neighbor. It's kind of nice to have a garden center behind your house? I would think so. Most of the neighbors on the block are benefiting from the freebies. What they were throwing out at the end of every season, Christmas trees. They get free trees. They get free reefs. So very generous. I'm not trying to, you know, ruffle anybody's feathers. I just want them to know, as long as they pull up, she still find something to complain about. We can have eight spots, and it still won't be enough for her,
Speaker 2
02:39:45if I may. Yes, I want to echo Commissioner Lewis's point. Alleys are for access. Great. Allow you to get to a property and from a property, and those residents use that alley to get to and from the rears of their properties, correct? So any scenario, if a car is there for 20 seconds and it causes a issue for 25 seconds, that's a problem. And my understanding, DPW can weigh in into stat, I don't think anyone is allowed to park in an alley. It's for access, ingress and egress, so any parking, and I don't know who provided these, but we all have handfuls of photos of cars parking in the alley, and you know, I don't know if they're here for 30 seconds, 20 minutes, just to pick up a flat, to load a flat. I think what the residents are saying is that any parking in that alley causes problems and your neighbor, and this is a situation where, as a neighbor, your your neighbors, have direct input on how successful or if this project can be successful, so I understand, like say, I know how garden centers work, I know the type of pickup times and loading, and I understand all those things, but those residents have concerns, and you need to take a take A moment and address those concerns with those residents, because if they continue to speak out against this and go right ahead, they continue to speak out against this project, you know, we're compelled to hear what they're saying. So, you know, I think we've all indicated we support a garden use. We have nothing against the garden center. We I think we all generally like what you're doing, but the residents have concerns, and you need to address those if we're to go forward with this item. Okay, okay, Miss sweat Director Todd, Commissioner Russell and then Daniels, if you got something else,
Speaker 12
02:42:00Mr. Chair, Jada Filson is still on the line. If she would like to address any of these loading unloading, I will say parking is not permitted, but whether or not loading and unloading is permitted, she may know better than I do, but parking of any kind for the customers would be not, not permitted at all in the alleyway.
Speaker 2
02:42:32Okay? Really quick question, you know the total square footage of that retail space architect, or
Speaker 16
02:42:42is 103 by 53 Yeah, 103 lawn by 53 deep
Unknown Speaker
02:42:47the building, the square foot of the building.
Speaker 16
02:42:49Oh, just a home. Yeah, just a home. Just 1375, 1375
Speaker 2
02:42:55it's about four five spaces. Okay. Miss philson, whenever you're ready, if you have any additional comments you want to provide,
Speaker 17
02:43:02um, yes through the chair. Um, yes, that's correct. Um, parking is not permitted in the alley. Um, the loading and unloading. We do have an agreement with with DPW where loading can be shown on the site plan, because it is a short term for applicants to unload their merchandise, but then move their vehicle or the vehicle that they're unloading, but that's the only thing that can happen in the alley. Okay?
Speaker 2
02:43:35Thank you. Thank you. And can you speak to I know you mentioned DPW controls Davidson and what happens in a right away, but can you speak to, you know, the permissibility of landowners putting cones and in the right of way to kind of, you know, control traffic or to allow for loading unloaded? Is that something that is permitted,
Speaker 17
02:44:00that is not permitted, and also with parking that is on Davidson, we cannot count on street parking as a calculation for parking for any any development or establishment.
Speaker 2
02:44:16Okay, thank you for that. And last question, is there a I know there's a distance requirement for off street parking. It's like 300 feet from the property, or something like that. Does that apply for commercial sites like this one? Can she provide off street parking at a different location if it's within the allowable distance, it
Speaker 17
02:44:43depends on what use it is, but most of the time, depending on the use, there can be like a shared parking agreement within 100 feet.
Speaker 2
02:44:54Within 100 feet, does that apply to storage and loading and unloading? No. Does it not speak to it? It
Speaker 17
02:45:02does not speak to it. But we probably would not permit that anyway, because it should be closest to the building to unload merchandise.
Speaker 2
02:45:10Okay, so she couldn't use the church's lot across the street to park the truck unloaded and walk it across the street. No, okay, thank you. You're welcome. All right, any other questions of staff and commissioners that have one down here? Commissioner Russell,
Unknown Speaker
02:45:30Thank you, Chair, Miss, Miss sway, I you know, and I'm talk a long time. I apologize in advance. To the west of the home that's on the garden bug property is that land bank land,
Speaker 12
02:45:56through the chair to Commissioner Russell, no, it is not. That is privately owned, and then the church owns the next parcels, I am not sure, any further than the church, okay? And
Speaker 9
02:46:08so, you know, I drive down Davidson there, and it's empty down there, and it's, it's a, it's a wide street, right? It's got a left turn lane, and it's got three lanes on each side of traffic, right? And I, I don't know how we find this out, but you know, Grand River living noise, a lot of those are not that wide. And I know it's a lot of traffic going down there Davidson, depending on the time, but for the life of me, I don't understand why parking is not allowed on Davidson, because it's two lanes of traffic flowing each side, and then there's one for parking. And I know I've driven in that stretch cars have been parked over there. And I'm not talking about where the ladybug is, but cars have been parked down. I used to play basketball down at that basketball court, you know, we parked on Davidson, and when hooped right? That was a long time ago, back I pulled my horse up there, right? But, you know, that was, you know that that street can accommodate traffic and that now it's on the corner, we need to pull back from the corner so people can so our Commissioner Lewis can make her turn on petowski. But I don't understand why there's not parking, because we can come right downtown, and you can park in a spot one day and the next day there's a sign up. This is valet parking only, so I don't know, you know, and I so we've got a business, and we've got some citizens, and both of their needs should be met by the city. And the way that I, you know, I don't understand why we can't park on Davidson is one thing. And if there's a rule, I know there have been exceptions to that rule all over the city,
Speaker 12
02:48:20through the chair to Commissioner Russell. That's actually not a city controlled road. Okay? So that would be m dot, that would make those decisions. That would and
Speaker 9
02:48:33so here we go. M.is a State Road, is a city road. There have been exceptions to those rules all the time on liver noise, there's, you know, we've gone down to one lane of traffic, right? You know, there. And so what I'm saying is, I'm I'm not proposing an answer, but there's a way to solve the problem, other than what I think we've been talking about here, and I would like us to help investigate how to do that, right? So that was one thing I was hoping, that was land bank, land to the left, I mean, to the west. And then it would, for me, it would be helpful that the next one, if we, if we had some pictures from someone standing in the alley, going looking around, what was there, you know, what garages were operational, what was, you know, what? What was going on in that alley? So we could better understand the concerns of the citizens that are adjacent to the property
Speaker 12
02:49:46through the chair. I can send many more pictures. Yeah, to you, yeah.
Speaker 9
02:49:51And then I was specific, because I'm a little slow, right? You know, somebody's standing in the alley looking north, looking south, looking east, looking west, and then it would help me, you know, like I'm going through Google Earth, it would help me understand that back behind there. Yes, if that's possible, through
Speaker 12
02:50:12the Chair, I do have those, and I will they are not ones with vehicles in them. Well, I'm not. I'm just looking
Speaker 9
02:50:21for the structures. Yes, there doesn't have to be an example of someone parking in the alley, right? Uh, show you.
Speaker 12
02:50:28I do have at least two or three in this or one in the slide show. I apologize this way it
Speaker 9
02:50:36and that's fine. It just okay. Next term. You don't have to pop it up now. But
Unknown Speaker
02:50:40we do have some we were just supplied us
Unknown Speaker
02:50:42with a lot of information. And hold
Speaker 2
02:50:45on one second, I'll call you when you get a chance. And then
Speaker 9
02:50:49and Miss way the meeting that you attended at Russell woods, their meeting, how many people were in attendance, and then was this? I know you probably said it, but I didn't hear. What was the was the garden bug discussed through
Speaker 12
02:51:13the chair? The garden bug was not discussed. It wasn't on the agenda. I spoke to the President, as well as a few other people, got some of the public hearing notices out, and then the President subsequently, okay email blasted the public hearing notice.
Speaker 9
02:51:31But the community group that's in that neighborhood, back in 2019 the garden bug, met with that group correct
Speaker 12
02:51:41through the charity Commissioner Russell, that is the same group they did meet back when this was starting, they said they have not heard anything since, okay, as the project had progressed and kind of evolved,
Speaker 9
02:51:55okay? And then there, you know. And it would be nice to know their dates of their meetings, if they have that, and I know that's some extra work with we could get that. Oh, right.
Speaker 12
02:52:09I believe Commissioner Lewis may be able to help, okay, provide those. There we go.
Speaker 9
02:52:14And then the other thing, and I want to say this so I live on the west side right and I live right around the corner from Garden bug one right now, garden bug one is an asset to our community, and we have had no problems. And it is, as described by the applicant, you know, it's open. You know, for some of us who plant late, it's not open long enough, right? It's May to whatever it was, and on a Saturday or Sunday, you know, there's some there's some people there, but on the most part, it's not like a party store, right? And most of the year there's no traffic and but when it is open, it's beautiful, a little plants on the thing. It brightens up Grand River right in the spring, summer and in the fall and at Christmas time. It's an asset right now, true enough. Just like anything, it's good and it's bad. There's some serious problems that need to be addressed, right? And we need to address them, even if we got a problem and and we justified with the problem that we got, we have to be respectful of one another so that we can resolve the problem, right? Because the main thing is, nobody wants to shut the garden bug down, and certainly nobody wants to stop anybody from coming and going out their house. So we need to figure out how to do that, and the city needs to put its resources and its creative hat on to help alleviate that problem. You know, because you see all the time, there's loading zone you can pull up to a fire station that you used to park in front of, but you can't park there now because it's valet. Somebody's making some money off that city street, right? So there some exceptions the city could do. Thank you Miss way and thank you
Unknown Speaker
02:54:51Chair, thank you, Commissioner Russell, Commissioner Lewis. I
Speaker 14
02:54:57was just going to say the Russell wood Sullivan area Association meets every first Wednesday of every month except December, January. December, January,
Speaker 2
02:55:11okay, thank you. And I see Miss Filson. I see two hands raised. I see a Mona and a miss Filson. Is that a new hand for Miss Filson?
Unknown Speaker
02:55:21Yes,
Unknown Speaker
02:55:24I just go ahead through the chair to
Speaker 17
02:55:26Commissioner Russell. I just wanted to indicate that, per the zoning ordinance, we can't count on street parking, but we can count the parking that's on the parcel, and that's the only parking we can count, and there may be, unless there are some signs indicated on Davidson, customers can park on Davidson, but we just can't count it toward the calculation of required Parking that's needed.
Speaker 9
02:55:58Thank you, and and and that I i understand exactly what you're saying, that as far as once it goes, once they submit the plans through, BC that you can't count those off street parking as part of their parking requirement, right? But somewhere, and I might be mistaken, I got the idea that somebody said you couldn't park on Davidson. And I think parking on Davidson and loading on Davidson, if that's possible, would help in solving the problem of customers parking in the alley, right? And it's customers parking in the alley. It's not the store of people parking in the alley, right? You know, and you can have a place, and people that are patronizing might do some crazy things. That's not the establishment, but the establishment needs to be sensitive to their neighbors and a good neighbor and help with that, but it's not them that are blocking the their neighbors in so that's why I was talking about that parking. And the other thing is, and I forgot to ask this, you know, we did a rezoning on Plymouth or something, and we changed that zoning for a long stretch to be two. And the reason that we changed it and and the and Plymouth, I think it was Plymouth. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. It was a much smaller width than what Davidson is now what you suggested the down zoning to be two because it was that zoning classification was for neighborhood businesses. Lorraine and I'm I'm bringing this up when we talked about spot zoning, right? Because we this body does not review your parking and your site layout, right? This body is here to protect the citizens, the business and and residents, but we're here to decide if that zoning classification fits in that area. And b2 let's businesses, the scale of businesses that are neighborhood friendly come into so you know, as we discuss this. To me, it's just my opinion. B2 is a complimentary zone in that area, right? But when we get into the specifics of the site, we want to make sure that that site is not adversely affecting others, but we don't need to review it's nice to see and it's helpful, but we don't need to review your site. If I'm correct, maybe I'm
Speaker 2
02:59:39Thank you. Thank you, Director Todd or miss sweat,
Speaker 1
02:59:46thank you Mr. Chair. As we draw to to the end of this, certainly, we're looking for some specific direction from you with regard to some of your concerns, things that you want to ensure that staff comes back to the to you with some of them we've already heard, given this particular discussion and the jurisdiction of the of Davidson with MDOT and recognizing the history that we've all alluded to, like with Mr. Russell, played basketball up there, and certainly, if you remember, but by that time, of course, I had a scooter, not a not a horse.
Speaker 1
03:00:32Parking has been allowed both sides of Davidson for, I would say, probably from Broad Street almost all the way, probably, to Woodrow Wilson, and we've seen that change over the years, and maybe again, in certain spots, was not allowed given certain activities. But because of the commercial businesses that were there, along with the residential that were on that stretch, we've also seen, you know, the streetscape itself change, medians added, medians, taken out. And what I'm thinking back to and reminded of is that this was originally intended, of course, to be an extension of the Davidson freeway to connect it to 96 and there were two instances where in the state was pursuing that, and thankfully, that was given up upon. But I think it has left, it has left that stretch of Davidson, sort of in limbo, to an extent. And of course, it has experienced this investment. What I'm getting at is, since you mentioned Grand River, and of course, the petitioner having her other business there, the community did enter into a planning effort, streetscaping effort, with MDOT to come up with what is currently there. Maybe we can see if what m.is thinking here along Davidson that would certainly benefit every resident, and in fact, if they're no longer looking to make that freeway connection again, could maybe work with the city to now provide a proper street scaping, a proper redesign that can, again, as with crash it, as with Michigan Avenue, Grand River and other stretches of road that are under m dot jurisdiction, we can actually come up with something that will be A benefit, that can properly meet the traffic needs, and again, the various user needs, as they abut the corridor. So if that's a if you want to request that, we'd be happy to do it. I would
Unknown Speaker
03:02:33like to request that
Speaker 2
03:02:36through the chair. Go right ahead and who. Side note, who owns Livernois? That city or MDOT
Speaker 1
03:02:44Livernois is city. Okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 2
03:02:48Okay. Um, did you have anything else you wanted to add before we close this item? Okay?
Speaker 12
03:02:55Miss sweat through the chair. Um, Mona Ali is on. Originally, she had started working with the petitioner as a member of the department of as the staff, the staff for the Department of neighborhoods, at the time, I believe, and she may be able to address some of the community engagement and other things like that, if we have time. Yep, go right
Speaker 2
03:03:20ahead. Good evening. Miss Ali, thank you. Good morning.
Speaker 21
03:03:23Just real quick. I know we're closing out, but yep at the time. And hello everyone. And Miss Castleberry first initiated this process. I was a district manager in seven. We did have her both on our district seven district wide meetings talking about the plan, and it was pretty well received. And then also we I was there in person when she did present to the Russell Woods group at that time, logistics like parking and things weren't discussed, just because it was so early on. But it was all positive remarks. Everyone in the neighborhood was really excited to see it coming along. So I'm pretty confident that if these parking issues are resolved, there won't be other issues that arise. Everybody was just waiting to see when they would be opening up, so I just wanted to make sure to throw that in there as well. I know that they probably haven't gotten an update since, but when I was there, we are pretty confident that there wouldn't have been any issues.
Unknown Speaker
03:04:17Okay. Thank you Miss Ali, you're welcome. Do we have any comments of staff or the petitioner?
Speaker 2
03:04:28Okay, Miss Witt, can you give us a really high level kind of next steps and what we can expect over the next couple meetings? Yes,
Speaker 12
03:04:36through the chair our our plan is to go and do the research answer the questions that have been requested of us, and we would like to bring this back before you with any additional information, including additional engagement that's done with the community in a few meetings. Not we don't have a exact meeting. Okay,
Unknown Speaker
03:05:09all right, well, thank you this item. No, we know. Okay, so we're good here. So we'll see
Speaker 1
03:05:19again. Mr. Jack, as I said, if there's specific questions, that you want us to address that so what I that's the only other thing that sweat and I were looking for. We want to make sure that when we leave the table we know exactly what you want us to to cover. Do
Speaker 2
03:05:31we have any specific questions? Commissioner Daniels, I
Speaker 8
03:05:35agree with probably m dot look at it. See if there's something that could be done or run Davidson, we may want to look at on the sidebar. They got some horse parking over there where we could probably use if there's somebody somewhere there with a horse.
Speaker 2
03:05:55Think we have to permit that use somewhere in the ordinance. And then if I could also add, I could also add a staff, but just look into the b2 along that, you know, book in the book. And
Unknown Speaker
03:06:10yes, Mr. Chair,
Speaker 2
03:06:13Commissioner Lewis, did you have any specific comments that you wanted to give to staff?
Speaker 14
03:06:21I would again, my comment is as to quality of life on that corner, and I would like to understand the best way to ensure that the residents, including myself, and by the way, you've got too many semi trucks coming down Davidson, you the Davidson is full of semis, and the traffic's going 5060, miles an hour. That is the corridor from I 96 to I 75 and that's why, even if parking is allowed on Davidson, no one parks on Davidson. It's too dangerous. It's just way too dangerous to try to switch lanes to get around the car on Davidson, my main concern is that the parking as relates to allowing the residents to freely move about their properties, is solid for them, and again, if it calls For an opaque wall to try to get the customers not to believe that the alley is where they need to park, that I would just like to see something that stops that, and if, if that can't be stopped, I don't know why we would even change the zoning.
Unknown Speaker
03:07:40Thank you. Commissioner Lewis,
Speaker 15
03:07:46churches that way Saturday or Sunday. I was planning a funeral church service. They're parked there every Sunday and every Saturday. Bible study on Wednesday, we have photographs of at least 40 cars on Monday. Oh, that is not true. They do Park on Davidson and
Unknown Speaker
03:08:05GP. He said they do Park on
Speaker 14
03:08:06Davidson, right? But that's Sunday, Wednesday evening. It's not a business. There's an it is not business hours between 9am and 5pm there are 50,000 cards or more running down Davidson with semi trucks, when someone parks their car on Davidson and Petoskey, and someone is running down Davidson at 40 miles an hour, and now all of a sudden, you've got to change lanes. That is too dangerous. They may allow it you are correct. On Sunday, no one's on Davidson, but Monday through Friday, nine to five to park on Davidson is not only dangerous for the person parking their car is dangerous for pedestrians and drivers. That is all I'm saying.
Unknown Speaker
03:09:02Thank you, Commissioner Lewis, Commissioner Russell.
Speaker 9
03:09:05So I think Commissioner Lewis has a valid point, and I think that director Todd's suggestion with m dot, because you know what I'm thinking is when you make that bend right over there. As you're passing the living noise, people are traveling way too fast, and that is not a resident problem, or the residents aren't causing it, the garden bugs not causing it. But that traffic should be slowed down, right and and that I see it as a separate issue, but I thought that was very insightful of Director Todd, that MDOT and that they slow down so that it is safe for pedestrians and It's safe to park your car. You know that's what it it needs to be
Speaker 2
03:10:06okay. Thank you. Commissioner Russell, Commissioner Bennett,
Speaker 6
03:10:12two additional points in the short term, the Davidson I wouldn't Park on Davidson. Get out of my jet any but not even more so for next couple years, 696, is closed, and that's the east. That's more traffic as well. But I would also support of talking to MDOT about looking at streetscape or something, given the proximity to Joe Louis Greenway as well, it's not too far, so that could be an opportunity increasing walkability in a long term sense, but something that I also support looking into. But yeah, Davidson is, yeah, it's, it's a death trap, my opinion, for a pedestrian,
Speaker 2
03:10:53and I would think most residents or guests of this space probably know how dangerous it is to park on Davidson, which is why they're going around and going to the back of the alley, because they can park on Davidson, but they know it's not the best place to park. And I don't think we're saying don't park on Davidson, you know, I think that option is there, and if people want to do it, they can do it. But I think the requirement of the zoning ordinance is that these businesses all can provide their own parking access, X, Y and Z, and I think that's the core of what we're trying to get at. It just needs to be provided so it lessens that burden on the surrounding properties. Miss with
Speaker 12
03:11:32Mister Chair. We do need to get clarification as to whether it's actually legal to park on Davis internet, because we have gotten conflicting answers, but from the answers that I received today, they do not that it is not allowed, but we will look further into that. Regardless, I would like to point out again that the street parking cannot count towards any required Right, right
Speaker 2
03:12:00and and just to echo those points, also, our responsibility isn't necessarily to count parking too. So that's just me speaking to my commissioners, and they know that I'm just saying it for the public. You know, our primary concern is the zoning, and does the zoning make sense? And ultimately, if we permit b2 in that area, how will that affect parking for everybody? You know, Will everybody have to utilize the alley for access and parking and those things? We don't know until those projects come but we're charged with determining if the b2 district, it hits an appropriate district for that piece of land,
Speaker 12
03:12:37right and through the chair. If we were to look at, and we are going to do an analysis, if that should be extended. Keep in mind that each business would be required to follow the regulations for the parking spots that they are required to have, which should clear a lot of that congestion for the parking up for those additional parcels, if that were to be extended.
Speaker 2
03:13:04Okay? And then my last thing, I know we were talking about this for a while, but I'll close out with in addition to the parking on Jefferson, can you see if loading is allowed on Jefferson, not Jefferson on a while we're on Jefferson, if loading is allowed on Davidson and unloading, can you just check on that too?
Speaker 12
03:13:19Yes, through the Chair, I believe director Filson did address that and said it is not it is not okay, but they do have on the site plan, and that was something that I discussed with BC earlier, and I will get confirmation that they are allowed to have. And I believe that director Filson addressed that as well, that the alley can have loading and unloading for very short amounts of time, especially for their large vehicles that need to unload for their stock. But beyond that, the alley cannot be used for anything else in Davidson, from what BC told me today as well, the Davidson is not some place that parking is permitted.
Speaker 2
03:14:07Okay, all right, thank you. With that, I will close this item and we'll see it come back at a subsequent meeting. Thank you for coming this evening, and thanks for bringing your team and just sharing with us this project. Wish the best, and we look forward to seeing you come back. Thank you. All right, moving forward, we are now at the public comment portion of the agenda, and this is similar to our public hearings, an opportunity for the public to speak, really, on any items or topics related to the agenda or unrelated to the agenda. We take public comments in the similar fashion that we do the public hearing. So if you are virtual, you can raise your hand and we'll call on you that way. And if you are here in person, we again request that you get a yellow staff card and get it to the front. Miss peralez, are you checking the virtual zoom for us? All right. Do we have any virtual hands
Unknown Speaker
03:15:16at this time? We do not have any hands raised, okay.
Speaker 2
03:15:19Do we and I do not have any public comment cards for here in person, I do want to, I just want to acknowledge,
Unknown Speaker
03:15:35to close it, oh, oh, to Get him to move.
Speaker 2
03:15:40Now we'll let him okay. All right, so we will keep going. I do want to acknowledge our own boatsmen in the room. Thank you. Thanks for coming. We appreciate you always showing up. I will do we have any virtual, I think I asked virtual. We don't have any virtual. Mr. Chair. There are no virtual hands raised all right, and I do not have any in person cards, so I will close the public comment portion of the agenda. Director Todd, do we have any unfinished business?
Unknown Speaker
03:16:12Mr. Chair, commissioners, there's none. Do
Unknown Speaker
03:16:14we have any new business? There's none. Do we have any committee reports?
Unknown Speaker
03:16:21There are no committee reports. We
Unknown Speaker
03:16:22have any staff reports.
Speaker 1
03:16:29The only item that I wanted to share with you under, well, there were a couple of things. The only item I will share with you just again, by way of following up on the capital agenda, we are getting some responses in from the questions that commission raised. Some of those questions were also raised by council members. The Council did vote to approve the matter back on a week ago Tuesday, and we would we are expecting that the administration will be producing a updated copy to reflect all of the outstanding issues that were requested of Council, as well as some of those again, that came from commissioners that that matched the council request, but again, we do expect to have some of the answers to the related questions, and we'll be providing that to you at an upcoming meeting. To the extent that you may want to have further dialog with any of those agencies, please just let us know, and we will try to get them to come in. As we do recognize that some of these issues, such as the City Airport, Commission has not had a presentation on City Airport in years, and the project is underway. So the commission, while it is not directly under your purview, per se, in terms of a zoning requirement at this time. Certainly, we think that the Commission and the viewing public would benefit from having a presentation. That is one thing that we've mentioned, also as it concerns DDOT. We had attempted to get a presentation from DDOT under its previous director of the DDOT plan, the just as there is a annual record, not an annual but a recreation master plan, and there is a transportation plan and improved DDOT plan, and we're trying to Get a presentation of that to you, as well as city council did after a few years, finally formally endorsed the plan this past Tuesday, so that brief update again will provide more and hopefully have a written report for you at your next meeting, updating you on a number of things that have, that have gone through the commission and made their way to city council, and some of those other things that will be making their way to the Commission.
Speaker 2
03:19:12Thank you. And if you could also take to M dot, there was the project we did. I for the the landing area, for the bridge and the big, giant wall, I'm trying to remember, it was the community agreement, and then they came to us, and that was a whole thing, but I think that's Fourth Street that they're on. Think that's for it. And one of the things that we asked m.to share if they had any plan, says ringing anybody else. I'm trying to remember the exact name of the project. It was the transport on Fort Street. I just can't remember the exact
Speaker 1
03:20:00name you're referring to the rezoning that came before you, that was the result of the community engagement between the bridge Yes, community and the city, yes,
Speaker 2
03:20:06yes. And in that conversation, we talked about Fort Street, because there was supposed to be some improvements about this around the sidewalk, but the Fourth Street wasn't included in their project. And the question was, it's, does m.do they have any plans to do anything along for street in particular that stretch? So you could just ask them when they do come and present something m.or d.or whoever operates that land, if they could just give some insight. Certainly
Speaker 1
03:20:38it is. It is under MDOT jurisdiction, and we can certainly raise that, raise those questions, and we can also see what the status is of the related project.
Speaker 2
03:20:48Thank you. Alright, that was staff reports. Do we have any member reports? No one's doing anything super fantastic, traveling. What you got? Congratulations. I had a feeling. I knew it was some good news somewhere out there. Alright, thank you for that. Do we have any communication instructors?
Speaker 1
03:21:15Hot, Mr. Chair commissioners, there's no all right with that. It is
Speaker 2
03:21:20841, and I'll adjourn the meeting. me, thank you.