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Hey, I'm Jon.
And I'm Becky.
And this is the We Are For Good podcast.
Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
So welcome to the good community, we're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. Hey, Becky, us having him.
Oh, I'm so excited to have this conversation. Let's get some infrastructure ready. And let's get excited about data.
And you know, those are words we don't use in the same sentence enough of like, you know, making databases fun and kind of leaning into this. But this conversation, I just feel away because we found somebody who literally dances around her office while cleaning up databases. I mean, how what an expert,
unlike is smart, she's very modern and disruptive about the way she goes about it. She's gonna get us excited today, guys, we're glad you're here.
So it is our huge honor to introduce you to Mary Hackett. She's the founder of database Z. And you may have heard of them, they're coming up on their 10 year anniversary of really serving this sector and getting people excited about getting their data to lead to more time and more intention in their work. Let me tell you a little bit about her and her 15 years of fundraising for local, regional and national organizations. She honed her annual and major gift solicitation skills by working for organizations, you know, in advocacy and youth development and health care. And then she channeled that in her analytical skills to drive really strategic and impactful outcomes. And then in 2013, she launched database, we've led to this, but you know, they're this just source of light. And they have incredible instruction around it. They connect people with resources, and just allow them to feel more confident about their work. She's impacted more than 500 organizations through this work. And I'm sure that's growing every single day as well. So Mary, you know, we're kindred spirits, you're dancing, cleaning the databases and blaring Taylor Swift. So get in this house, we're excited to know you and have you on the podcast today. Well, thank
you so much for having me. And just you know, from what you mentioned earlier, you know, if you really have good data in life is dreamy, just it just is because it just lifts all boats, which I know we're gonna get into. But thanks so much for having me today. Well,
I mean, I believe that in my heart, but I need a shepherd to come alongside me and show me how to do. So we appreciate to have you as the human in this house. And we want to get to know you as a person too. So kind of take us back to your story of growing up. And kind of what led you into being obsessed with this in the best of ways. Yeah.
And obsession is the right word, is it? Well, I'm originally from Dayton, Ohio. Now I live in Oregon. But you know, I got out of college. And I knew I wanted to work for the nonprofit sector. I just, I didn't know that fundraising was a thing. So I started in the marketing department. But something amazing would happen, these fundraisers would they would bring in a check. And then something very tangible would happen, like the roof stopped leaking, or like a planetarium with a bill right now. So like, I could see like the direct impact, like somebody made a gift, and then something amazing would happen. And so I would watch these fundraisers in complete awe. And I thought I want to do that. And so after a year in the marketing department at that museum, a position opened up in annual giving, and I took it and I've never looked back. Well, the best decision ever.
Wow. Well, I can totally relate to that. Because my first position was also at a museum that had a planetarium. So in we are kindred spirits. And I have to say, I think you're the needle in the haystack, because I've never heard of anybody going from marketing over into the data side. And my gosh, we need more of you. So please, like set some tone for us about kind of the business center for development. One of the number one complaints that we hear from fundraisers as they don't have enough time to fundraise. And so you're kind of telling us that a significant culprit is just not having those fundraising operations in order. So talk to us a little bit about your philosophy around that and how we can make this a focus in the new year.
I could probably write a novella about that question really good. We will
read extremely Yes, you have like a really bougie drink if you're going to have
images, pictures, I should go back For a minute, so I spent 15 years fundraising doing annual giving and major giving big capital campaigns for big national organizations. And it was in these institutions that I realized that if you if you don't have a good back of the house, if your data is not in good shape, if you don't have the right reports, if you can't see your fundraising landscape, you cannot be successful in fundraising. And so that that's really what led me to start databasing. Essentially, I was raising money in Seattle in healthcare. And I would crunch my own analytics. I, you know, I wanted to know, like, how do donors come in to the hospital? How, how long do they stay? How long does it take to get to the major gift threshold. And so I started crunching all these things. Once I had that information, I started raising like five times more than I was before I had that information. So it's like this big aha moment. But then I realized, like, oh, I can't keep this a secret like i. So essentially, I was sick of crunching it every year. So I built software that crunch the data. And I thought, you know, that data, the nonprofit sector needs this. And so I now full time get to help, you know, fundraisers understand their data, and make much better decisions. But here's, here's the thing. fundraisers, you have to be an expert in everything, you have to be an expert in your programs, you have to be an expert in what your leadership thinks and what their vision is, you have to be an expert in how to ask for money, you know, all the things. And here's my advice to fundraisers, stop trying to do all the things like you're making a millimeter of progress on 1000 fronts. And that's not going to get you very far. So once you're data driven, all you're focusing on is at the most leveraged thing, that's going to help you raise more money. And that's what you should spend your day on. Not sitting in meetings, not chasing down an acknowledgment letter, like set up your infrastructure, so that you can go out and do what you do best, which is raise money.
Okay. I love that this. So however, stations dropping at the beginning of the year, because we came off of habits of an impactful fundraiser series at the end of 2022. And it is about getting in our lanes of figuring out what is it the most high leverage activity for you and for the fundraiser, you're right on and like they need to be out in the field and having conversations. And so building the infrastructure to enable that and to prioritize it correctly just makes so much dang sense. So I wonder if you would kind of break down what are some secrets to fundraising operations that maybe are not lifted? Maybe they're behind the dark curtain? Maybe you can lift to this force?
So many secrets? I would say. The first I would say is, you know, make sure you're in the right database. Like, you know, a lot of people they want the Tesla, do you need a Tesla? Or is that Honda gonna get you there?
Thank you clean vehicle, please, like,
exactly make sure either one is electric. So a lot of people are in the wrong database. And that that the swirl of like trying to manage these, really, they're in databases that are too big for them. They don't need all the functionality. And then they're wrestling this database like it's a tiger. And the swirl, the inefficiencies is, is serious. So make sure you're in the right database. I would say the second secret is become friends with your finance department. Now I know as fundraisers we have different goals when it comes to revenue. Like I often tell my coaching clients, there's a difference between counting gifts and accounting of gifts. And we like to count gifts, right? We want to count those big pledges, finances like whoa,
what's production? What's cash, right? All these cash
100%. So worst case scenario is that your finance department shows up to a board meeting with different numbers than what you're presenting. And spoiler alert, and they're, they're gonna believe finance and then that hurts your street cred, which is just breaks your soul a little bit. So be friendly with your finance department. That's a huge, it's a thing. It's a big thing. And that oh, sorry, a third secret because now it can't stop is have good reports. So you, you should know your philanthropic landscape and how it's changing. Because that way you can you can react to what's happening in real time. And then kind of proactively course correct. If you need to before the end of the year, so have good reporting. That's, dare I say automated. I am going to dare to say
that Darren, please everyone automate it will save your life and your time automate.
And your sanity. Yeah. I care about their sanity. Me too. So the third I would say the third secret is have really good reports that you can count on that's going to that are going to come in and help you drive the right work home.
I love the simplicity of those three things. and they seem basic. But I agree with you. I don't see that a lot in nonprofit. And I thank you for breaking that down because I am an efficiency weirdo. And I think it's because you know, when you're a multitasker, and you're juggling all the times, the thing you value the most is your time. And so I would love for you to kind of walk through a couple of ways that we can optimize operations to increase that revenue. Do you have some hacks for us?
Oh, of course, well, automate everything that that's humanly possible to automate, whether it's your gift entry, whether it's your acknowledgement, letters, all of the things that kind of, if you're doing anything that's repetitive, see if you can automate it, you know, all your reporting should be automated. I see clients that they'll spend six hours a month building the same board report, which it hurts, my heart does hurt. Think of all the
people who spend even more time, you know, I mean, it's true that I don't think when we're in the middle of it, it's hard to zoom out and realize how ridiculous that sounds, you know?
Yeah. So automate as much as humanly possible. I would say, another hack is Don't Don't be okay, with living in a dirty database. Like, it's not okay. It's totally fixable. And I often see databases that have, you know, like fingerprints from like, four data admins ago, and then nobody knows what those codes mean. And then people are spending time trying to decipher like, oh, this code, maybe it's special, maybe it's not digital release, clean it up. Yeah, do it. And I would say use your database, that'd be my next hack is, you know, a lot of operations folks, they think of the database is like their real estate. And they're very protective of it. And there should be to a point, but but not to a fault. Like if you've locked your database down so much that nobody can use it. That's hindering revenue. So I would say, the, like a third hack is, you know, instead of assuming that people don't know how to use the database, and then locking them out, and then you have all these like side, saddled spreadsheets, which is my nightmare, by the way, teach them what data to put in and how to use it, and then let them use it.
Yeah. I mean, everything you're listening here, I don't know, if you're new to the nonprofit space, maybe you don't know how true this conversation is, if you're if you haven't been around the block very long. But for those of us that have spent a long time in our careers, in this space, like, these are realities, at most every shop, you know, and the database is so central to our workers should be so central to our work, but it's often neglected. And it's often this mysterious thing. And oftentimes, development feels really separated from operations. And you know, we want to get everybody aligned. And we think that there's so much power in that. I know, you preach that all the time. And you've had experience playing on both sides, and specifically in your career. So I wonder if you would talk about what is a dynamic partnership? How can the operations side of house and the development side of house really play well together?
Well, sadly, you've hit the nail on the head in most shops. You could fit the Pacific Ocean between fundraisers
For real. Literally every organization I've worked for, this has been a thing.
It's a thing. And it's a it's a terrible thing. We're all on the same side. So about I think maybe two years ago, there was this fascinating study done about about this very same thing. And it was very interesting, because the fundraising were asked the same set of questions. And one of the questions was similar to this question is, you know, how can operations folks help frontline fundraising? And the fundraisers there? The number one answer was to understand fundraising? However, when the operations folks were asked that same question, they ranked that as the least important thing to do. So it's really hard to find a more shocking cultural rift. So this is this might be controversial. This is a bit of a destructor. Love it. We get excited. Okay, speak to the operations folks here. And here's the truth. If you don't see your role, at first and foremost, as helping fundraisers generate revenue, you're probably not in the right job. It I know, it goes deep. But it's true. There has to be this great partnership. And if that partnership is either causing fundraisers not to raise enough money or they're spending time on things they shouldn't be spending time on, and you don't see yourself as part of that fundraising group. That's a problem, and you're probably hindering revenue to your organization. So I often challenge my, my ops colleagues to reframe what success looks like to them. Because a lot of times success to an operations person is, oh, I have this beautiful suite of like policies and procedures, or have this super tidy database. Great, however, are those things helping generate revenue. So I like to ask my operations colleagues to think of themselves as only meeting success when you've helped secure gifts. And so that if you think of yourself as larger in the larger role, then that makes a big difference. And it helps with the mind that helps bring those two sides of the house together.
And I'm going to keep going with your little challenge there. And I'm going to say, message, I'm talking to the fundraisers, you cannot find success unless you collaborate with your operations team. And I will tell you that I am at the front of the line in terms of the guilty, you know, who did not put enough of my data into the database, because it was because of that function of not having enough time not having a quick way to automate, what was this conversation I just had, what did they say that we needed to do about receipting? Or how do we acknowledge that and it's like, fundraisers, we have got to have some sort of a bridge between the two. And I really think if you're looking for a quick and easy win, to pull your ops team into the power of your fundraising, tell them the stories, tell them the story of what's happened, tell them why somebody made this gift. All of a sudden, the gift isn't just this transactional monetary passing of hands, there's actually, you know, feeling behind it, there's legacy behind it, there's an intention and a face that we can put to it. So thank you for bringing that humanizing point back to us, Mary, I want to talk about how you make data driven fundraising decisions, because you said something a little bit earlier that I don't want anybody to miss. And, and it was about your reporting, and about making sure that you're flexing your data, because we talk a lot about all the industry reports. And Jon and I had like a philosophical conversation about this last week, and just our struggle with the fact that people read so much about their industry reports, but they don't read the reports about what their data is telling them about their own people. So talk to us about how people can flex their data, what the trends in their data are showing to make these data driven fundraising decisions and 2023.
Well, so many things, if you're if you're putting good data in, you should completely understand your philanthropic landscape. So who is giving? When are they giving? what's inspiring them to give? You know, it's it's interesting, because social media has, has changed how people view their lives, we have this perfectly curated experience, right? We like certain things, and then that's what we see in our feeds. But what I often find is that nonprofits do the opposite, they just blast out these big messages. And they don't, they don't create the this like, you know, really curated experience. For example, if you work at a university, and for the past five years, you know, this donor has been giving to nursing, you don't have to send them communications about your culinary arts degree. You don't have to send them communications about the dean of the engineering program just wrote a book, they don't care, they have voted with their dollars, and they care about nursing. So really looking at where donors are designating their dollars, and create that curated experience based on what they're telling you, that they care about. And they're telling you a lot when they give, they're telling you when they like to give, they're telling you how they like to give, is it stock? Is it cash, Is it monthly, and they're telling you what they care most about, by designating their gifts. So on a on a, on a micro scale, right, like at the donor level, curate everything, when you're when you're sending email blasts out, you know, write five versions, and send them nursing to the people who give to nursing send the engineering to the people that give to engineering, it will make a tremendous difference. And that helps you be I mean really data driven, and you know, donor centric
and human way to go
yes. This is why this conversation kind of stacks you know because if you don't have a clean database you don't feel confident to do those segments, you know, you feel stressed at the thought of having different versions and is that right and is it deduped and all those kinds of things. So I think your point is true. really solid of like, you got to start with clean data, you got to, you know, be relentless in that pursuit. So you can really lean into the automations and stuff. So I'm curious, you work with hundreds of organizations through database see, what are some of the biggest mistakes nonprofits are making in their databases?
Well, I would reiterate just being okay that things are a mess. Yeah, that's, that's not cool. That's my professional advice. Just letting it be dirty, is not great. I would say, living in the wrong database, it wastes really does waste a ton of time. And then another is, you know, not putting data, the right data in the right place, which leads me to a whole, we should have a whole conversation about standards. Because once people know where to put data, then something amazing happens. They do it. So if you just if you just sit down and write standards, it's really like a game changer. So I would say I would say those are my big those are my big three mistakes is not putting the right data in being okay with it being dirty, and just not using all the real estate that's maybe in your database.
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Okay, love all of that, Mary. And I just love this conversation that's really diving into how do we work smarter, not harder. So talk to us about what advice you would give listeners for how they can work smarter and harder this year, talk about automations talk about systems and in maybe dive deeper and go into what mindsets need to be in place to even get started.
Well, it's funny because a lot of my clients will joke with me because they they'll say to me the word like, oh, I had to do this manually, and like my shoulder start to creep up to my ears. Because you shouldn't, you should have to do very little manually when it comes to fundraising and keeping your database tidy. So nothing should really nothing should have to be done manually. Like if, if you're doing something, and you're you're doing it every day. And it takes a long time, or you're doing something every week or every month, whether it's reporting or prospect research, there are tools out there that can help you automate. So think about your time, if if you if you're being asked as an ops person to build really complex reports that your database cannot handle, and a lot of them really can't, then maybe you ask you rally for resources, maybe you get you know, Power BI or Tableau or something that can help you bring different data tables together that that the software doesn't allow to happen. And this This is quite frequent, actually. So there's there's software out there that can help with your reporting. And you can just hook hook your database in and push the button and the report pops up. So my hope is that if you're an ops person and you're listening to this right now, you've picked up your jaw and you are ready to like, ask for the resources to automate some reporting. So reporting is a huge time suck. And I in full transparency, I probably get a call at least once a month by somebody who's in tears. They're about to quit their job. They cannot figure out complex campaign reporting which is very complex. So I would urge you to get the tools you need. And really, really chart out your day. Like if you're, if you're spending a ton of time running acknowledgments, or you can't figure out your pledge reminders, or it's reporting, or it's gift entry. Look at look at a week, look at how you spend your time throughout the week and look at the things that you're doing every day that are the same, and figure out a way to automate as much as humanly possible, which saves your brain power so that you can advance other elements of your work.
Yeah, I think that's so good. I wonder if you would give some examples of just like some of your favorite tech tools that that are kind of hacks and making that work? And maybe it is just leveraging the automations in your CRM, whatever that may be. But are there other tools that you would lift?
You know, Power BI and Tableau are huge. However, I actually think that some of their graphics are, are too hard to interpret, frankly, like
Thank you for being honest, yep.
Yeah, I, we automate a lot of reports for a lot of clients. And our number one tool is Excel, which I know is like, Oh, it's just Excel, you can do amazing things with Excel. And everybody has it, that's the other thing is, we needed to use a tool that you know, all of our nonprofit partners have, which is, you know, a lot of them use the word or Microsoft suite. So we do a ton of automations. In Excel, you just download your data, upload it into a macro, and it crunches, everything. So it sounds complex, but it's not. And you also can do a lot of great visuals. So if your reporting is too hard to understand, nobody's gonna look at it. If your reporting is too deep, like you don't, you don't want to put so much information in front of your board that they're just like, I can't
What is it? Yeah. I can't even digest it.
Yeah, exactly. What actually matters in terms of your goal.
What matters, right? Yeah. So when you're thinking about reporting, like, there's really three audiences, you know, you have your board, you have your leadership, and you have your fundraising department. So those should be three completely different reports. And they should be put out monthly. And all three of those should take less than one hour to populate. So if you're, if it takes you consider it thrown, Yeah, because if it takes you more than an hour, something needs to be automated in your work, because it just shouldn't take that long.
And I think you're talking even just about like, have some templates, I'll give one pro tip on the fundraising side that helped me because I was so terrible at getting my information into the database, Jon can attest to this, how awful I was. And I literally had to put a time slot a two hour time slot on my Thursday morning, every other Thursday, that said, contact reports. And I created a template for myself. So it would just be like, plop it in name where we met time. What did they say? What do I need to do to follow up? What is the action taken, and it's like, if I could just quickly distill that. And PS, it was still hard for me. But it's like, find ways to make the data move more quickly. So you're not having to reiterate these processes. I think about this reporting for all three of these audiences, it can have the same framework, but have very different messaging in that. And that's what I think you're saying, and we really love.
Yeah, well, if you're, if you if your operations person, you know, is conscious
Is breathing.
Then there's, there's really, there's four things that a fundraiser should put into the database. And those four things should be able to generate a ton of amazing all the reports you need. In that, you know, it's taken me probably 10 years to figure this out, because fundraisers were just so stuck at their desk, and it just like, you know, entering contact reports, there's so here's my four things. You have to code who's in your portfolio. Right, you've assigned yourself as the solicitor. The second is you have to track the Moves Management stage, you know, is this person in cultivation? Are they in stewardship? The third is you need to track your quality contacts. If you run into some into a prospect at the grocery store, do you need to put that in database? No. Just your quality?
Oh my gosh.
I'm sorry, we have to look at each other.
We have stories about that.
Right? So do I. Because we're just putting all kinds of data in and you're then you're trying to find a needle in a stack of needles, so that's not great either. Okay, so my fourth thing is to track your asks, all you have to do is track your asks. With those four things, you can do cash flow projections. You can do portfolio like management reports, you can look at if you're poor like if you're doing wealth screening you could you could look at how many people in your in each portfolio are actually giving it capacity, which that should make every fundraiser out there salivate right now.
I've never heard anybody say that. Thank you for saying that out loud.
This is the dreamy,
So many things. Yeah. I can tell.
Yeah.
Well, I think those four things like we'll definitely list those in the show notes. Because I think like what an actionable list to like center, if you're doing nothing else, like this could be really helpful from a from a fundraiser of how those two connect. Yes. So you know, we have to create space for storytelling on this podcast, we love having the ops talks. But it all comes back to mission for us. I know you've gotten to be part of missions in your life, too. So I wonder if you would take us back to a moment of philanthropy that is stuck out to you and just made you think, Man, I'm so thankful for this work we get to do
okay, I would say the moment like a, like an aha moment in philanthropy for me, was 10 years ago, when I started database. See, like I knew, I knew that fundraisers didn't have everything that they needed. I knew I had a I had a proof of concept with the analytics that I was crunching that would drive all my work. And it helped me raise a ton of money. But I knew that didn't exist anywhere. Because I had to build the software myself, however, when I launched Databasey, the biggest aha moment for me was that hundreds of organizations came out of the woodwork and were like, Oh, my gosh, we need these. But my data, we can't we cannot produce this, my data is so bad. I have not realized that dirty databases were such a systemic issue. And that it's such a systemic issue in our in our sector, that it's prohibiting us from raising money, frankly, and treating our donors, np clients served as well as they should be. So I kind of realized in that moment that the nonprofit sector is charged with a lot of issues of solving a lot of challenges in our world, you know, that the government doesn't always do, right, we, we educate the youth, we, the nonprofit sector takes care of the sick, you know, we're the ones out there running food banks. And so we as fundraisers have to meet goal to be able to fulfill all those things. And so one of the significant issues is not having the right data to actually fulfill that. And so I would say that, that was like one of my biggest aha moments was how detrimental bad data can be.
I mean, we talk so much about the big dreamy things on this podcast. But it's like, if I call this the hygiene, like if you don't have the basic hygiene, needed to understand where you are today, where your donors have been in the journey they're on, and then be able to forecast where you're gonna go, it's gonna be a hard slog, and I tell you, I just think about the tiny nonprofit in this and someone who's trying to manage, you know, an entire mission with one or two people running the database, raising the money, it's just a lot. But I do think your point is really well made about making sure that if we're grounding and anchoring, and certain things were grounded in our values, we're grounded in this data driven world that we know we need to extract so that we can be human. And we got to be grounded and working together, because these things cannot happen in silos, and we have to all be pouring into it. Because that's going to create the clearest picture of what's actually happening in our org. So thank you so much for all that Mary. We wrap up a lot of our conversations with a one good thing and I wonder, what would be a one good thing that you would offer up to our community today could be a piece of advice, maybe words to live by, what would be yours?
I would say there it's both words to live by and and advice, but create standards for data collection. Now, I know that that sounds like to me that sounds like a like a fantastic Wednesday afternoon. But I know for
my trash, Metallica, so some
standard background,
but every field and every module of your database, you you have to put a stake in the ground. This is how we're going to use our database, not how this organization over here is using it not how this like amazing, you know, organization over here is using it but how do you want to use your database and then create standards and then share those standards and live by them, your life will be immensely better.
I mean, you just figured out how to thread your story, your one good thing, all this information today. I mean, it's definitely your life's work and your passion. And it just comes to this conversation, Mary, and I know people are gonna want to connect with you and with everything you offer through databases. So tell us, you know how people can connect on all those fronts and where you hang out online to? Oh, sure.
Well, of course, you can connect with me on LinkedIn. And also you can find my website and get database c.com
biggest question we didn't ask, is it data? Or is it data? And this is what we need to solve because Oklahomans are dragging you down.
We're probably gonna say data, and we're sorry about that. And we're gonna call it a gala.
Yeah, nice. Okay. Okay.
Excellent. Excellent. Well live in the Midwest with us. So, Mary, it is so lovely to meet you. Thank you for creating space for this conversation and friends as you're getting into 2023. Prioritize time for that data. And if you need some help, please connect with Mary.
Thank you for having me.
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