You're listening to cubicle to CEO episode 189. We're continuing our back to back conversations with entrepreneurs who monetize as content creators or influencers with this week's guest Maddie James. Maddie is a former Miss Liberia USA turned Best Selling Author of everyday magic. The CEO of the Maddy Jane's company and founder of boss fluence. In today's case study, Maddy reveals three key strategies she implemented in her business over three years that made her $3 million to add to the synchronicities Maddie is also a proud mom of three leaning into her role as a parent to inspire the content she creates.
Welcome to cubicle to CEO the podcast. I'm your host Ellen Yin. I quit my job without a backup plan and bootstrapped my first $300 freelance project into $2 million in revenue by age 28. On the show, you'll hear weekly case study interviews with leading entrepreneurs and CEOs who share one specific strategy that successfully grew their business revenue. Skip the expensive and time consuming learning curve of testing everything yourself by borrowing what actually works from the best and brightest mentors. You'll also get a front row seat to my founders journey through transparent income reports and behind the business solo episodes, subscribe now so we can grow together every Monday.
Video marketing is here to stay. So I want to introduce you to my go to Video Marketing Coach and friend Natasha, host of the shine online podcast. Natasha helps you create strategic video content by sharing a simpler way for you to show up with confidence that doesn't rely on the latest trends or gimmicky hacks. Her sustainable approach is especially refreshing in Episode 71 of the shine online podcast titled be a creator, not an influencer, using social media as a business owner. Here's a quick note of encouragement from that episode that really resonated with me.
I'm literally saying that follower count doesn't matter. What matters is having the audience of the right size and the right people. You could literally have 1000s of people in your community. And that might not do nothing for your small business. I have seen it with one of my greatest friends DL. She's an amazing sales coach and she was literally making sales like her first six figure year with only a few 100 people in her audience and she still doesn't have a big audience and still has hit the seven figure mark right.
Natasha smart discernment between creating content as a CEO to drive sales versus creating content to chase vanity metrics is a must listen, search for the shine online podcast to play the rest of episode 71 And make sure you hit follow on Spotify or the plus button on Apple podcasts to add Natasha show to your weekly rotation. We'll also drop a clickable link below in the show notes.
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Alright friends, I have my friend here with me today Mattie James who I had the pleasure of meeting in Nashville this past January we were both speakers at the Elevate Summit hosted by our friend Alice Park and Mattie blew me away. Not only is she such a magnetic presence, so warm and open, but also her way of phrasing things, just the repeated mic drops that she shared throughout the summit. I knew I had to have her on the podcast. So Mattie, welcome.
Thanks, Ellen. I'm so excited to be here.
Maddy,
we start all of our guests off with sharing their cubicle to CEO story. I know you have a really interesting pass. For example, when you were Speaking at Elevate, you talked about your past as Miss Liberia. And so I know you have a very colorful career. So, share with us what was that final catalyst that helped you make the leap from being an employee
Well, I'll take you through the long version, but the quick version is getting fired will help you become an entrepreneur real quick. Which was my reality. But the long and the short of it was I was working retail. Right before I started blogging, I was working retail, which the schedule on that I wouldn't wish on a war criminal. I just think it's just so intense. It's like the hardest schedule. And I really just, I had just gotten engaged. I won Miss Liberia in 2009. And then six weeks later, Chris and I got married. And I kind of had this like, you know, I guess maybe it was a quarter life crisis because I was 25. And I was like, I don't want to start my life as a woman working retail, because that's not really what I want to do. You know, at the time, it was just like, a way for me to pay my bills.
And so, you know, Chris was super supportive, which I'm so thankful for. And he was like, Well, what is it that you want to do? And I had always wanted to become a journalist. That was literally what I went to school for. And so he was like, okay, so how do we start at square one with that, and so, I put in some applications for internships, I interned for the top sports radio station in Atlanta at the time, and they needed promotional marketing interns. And so I put my name in the hat for that. And it was like, whoa, I'm an intern now, you know, and I was definitely maybe like, a couple years older than everybody there because most of everybody was just getting out of school. They were like, 21-22, and I was 25. But I was like, that's fine. I'm here to do the work, and learned so so much.
It's actually funny. In hindsight, I'm like, everything I learned there is like literally what I use now as an influencer and influencer marketing. And I think I made a really great impression on the VP there, because he recommended me for another internship at Brown Forman, who are the makers of Jack Daniels. And they they were looking for specifically an African American marketing intern, and he put my name in the hat, and I ended up getting that gig. And that was actually a paid situation. But that is actually where I was when I won Miss Liberia. And when Chris and I first got married, when that happen, everything was great. But of course, the internship was limited. And I started my blog because I had won the pageant. But, you know, in my head, I was very delusional. I just thought I was going to become a superstar overnight. Spoiler, that's not how that happened.
And I ended up having to go to work, right. And I was like, You know what, let me go ahead and just work this job. I didn't want to do retail again. So I put in an application to various places, and I ended up being a showroom manager for a home decor company. They were based in New York, but I was the showroom manager for their to Atlanta showrooms. And I did that for almost four years. And I was really fortunate because the company was based in New York, and my boss would fly back and forth. I really didn't have anybody over my shoulder. So I could work on my blog, I could build my social media, I could use my lunch to do photo shoots for the site and for social media.
And I was really transparent with my boss who think God was really so supportive of like my side hustle of blogging, and he was one of the only other black people in our department of the company. And so he was so supportive. And I think, again, that was like another kind of Godsend of a position for me to be able to grow. They started making some changes, and they ended up letting me go in June of 2015. Maizah, my firstborn was nine months. And I had finally I had been contemplating quitting for a while, I kept on justifying it.
I was like, I consider myself a woman of faith. And I was like, praying, I was like, Okay, God, if we could just hit this number, and I would always hit the number. And I know he was looking at me, like, girl, I've given you what you've asked for just quit this job. And finally, you know, the company was making changes, and they let me go and so I was making more than my annual income from my blog at that point, and I was like, Okay, well, let me just run with it. And I've never looked back since.
That's incredible. And you know, I think your story, a lot of people can resonate in the sense that sometimes we are what stand in our own way, right. We stand in our own way in terms of requiring this artificial milestone that we need to cross in order to make a change. And so sometimes God or the universe or whatever you believe in hands you a situation where it kind of forces you out of that comfort zone. It says nope, now you're jumping now.
I love hearing where you've come from and especially, I mean, granted, 25 is is so young, but it's cool to hear from people who have entered into a space that might be new to them. In your case, you know, in radio for that show, when they're not of the same life stage as their peers, right? You were just about to get married.
And I love hearing that, because I think sometimes people and I say this mostly to our audience of entrepreneurs who are listening. And sometimes it can feel scary when maybe online, you're surrounded by, you know, people in their 20s and 30s, creating these businesses, and maybe you've already had a very successful career, maybe you're in your 50s or 60s or 70s. And you're thinking about starting something new and thinking, Who am I to do this when all the peers surrounding me are in a completely different stage of life? But I think like Mattie demonstrated, you can use that to your advantage, you bring a different perspective. And so I just love that cubicle, the CEO story Mattie.
And I know we're going to kind of hear more of the way your brain thinks and how you approach through today's case study, which I was telling Maddie right before we hit record, I don't know if you all see Angel numbers or or believe in that stuff. But it's wild to think that her case study is three things that she implemented in her business over the last three years that made her over $3 million as an influencer. So all the threes.
Before we jump into the details of that, Maddie, I want to ask you kind of a hot take question. This is a conversation that has I've been seeing a lot on social recently. And I'm actually planning to answer my own take on this in a bonus episode, but I want to hear yours first. What do you believe is a difference between a creator and an influencer? How would you define the difference between those two things or someone who would identify as an influencer?
Hmm, that's a really great question. So it's interesting. I run bossfluence. It's a professional organization where we teach creators influencer marketing and entrepreneurial skills. And it was funny because we recently just changed that description, I got a little bit more clear on it for a variety of reasons, I think just my experience and understanding the industry. And when I say the industry, I mean, both the Creator economy and the influencer marketing industry, which I do count as different things. They do work in tandem for sure.
Again, I think for me, I think that we are all you know, like I said, I have to go back to the faith part, right. So we have to start from the beginning. So if we consider God our Creator, right, and we're made in His image, we are all creators just by default, right? Every single one of us like, even if you're not in a creative field, you are a creator.
In the online space, if you are somebody who produces content, if you produce anything that you can post on a social media platform, if you can post on a flagship content platform, I consider flagship content, a blog, a podcast or YouTube because of the shelf life of content. But if you produce anything of that, then you are a creator. Now, an influencer is somebody who creates with the intent of influencing you to make a purchase of a product or a service from either a third party brand that they're working with somebody that they liked, or their own product. To me, that is the difference. It's the intent of creating, if you create to post you are a creator, if you create to sell you are an influencer, because you're the point and the intention of you creating is to literally persuade someone convinced someone to make a purchasing decision.
I think sometimes that people put like a negative connotation on selling stuff, which is very interesting, especially if you want to be in business. And the God's honest truth is, is that we're all buying stuff based off what somebody said, or what we saw or what we heard, especially in this short form, video era of social media. I think that a creator really has power when they understand what makes them an influencer and how they can use that influence to add value, not only to the industry and their business, but specifically to their audience. So to me a creator is someone who creates and produces content. An influencer is usually a creator, right? But it doesn't have to exclusively be right you can be an influencer and be somebody who has a brick and mortar right? You can be somebody who's like in tech or anything like that. But if you are creating saying sharing, recording or filming something with the intent for someone to buy something, you are now getting into the influencer bucket and basically you just want to you know, help someone make the decision to buy so that that is what the difference is to me the intent
That is such an interesting perspective. And I'm so glad I asked you this question, because my spin on that question would have looked completely different. But I want to point out one thing that you said that really stood out to me and when I say different, I actually agree with the points that you made, it just I would have answered it from a completely different angle, the angle that you answered it from that I really appreciate and want to pull out. Because now I'm going to think of this whenever I hear this question, right, is the layer of intent because what's so interesting is most people, and I'm sure you come across this all the time in your line of work, Mattie, teaching other creators, how to be influencers or influencers, how to scale their business.
I think a lot of people associate influencers with a certain size audience, they say, Oh, if you are instafamous, or tik tok famous or YouTube famous, then you're an influencer. And so they're looking at external factors in terms of determining how how they view someone or define or categorize someone as an influencer. Whereas you're saying, No, being an influencer actually starts from within? It starts internal, it starts with your intent. That is such a unique answer that I haven't heard before. And I just really appreciate you sharing that. So thanks for indulging me.
Yeah, I love it. And if you're curious about about my spin on things, I'll probably record it as a bonus episode to be a companion to Matty's episode. So if you're listening, tune in for that bonus hot take. But let's get right on into your case study Mattie, because it's a really interesting one. So, again, three things you implemented over the last three years to make over $3 million as an influencer, number one, and you kind of already teased this, because that you really embraced video, short form video content, and live video.
So let's start with the short form side, actually, because you do this so well, as a follower of you Mattie. And as someone who really enjoys your content, two types of short form content that I often see you post on your page are, "I don't know who needs to hear this", or "this is for you, if..." and then you kind of share a perspective shifting thought right with someone and it's usually very encouraging and kind of gets you to pause and think about what you just said.
Another thing that you're known for, which actually is funny, probably because it's, I assume, it's not really what you intended to, you know, become known on the internet for, but you create these amazing charcuterie boards for all different types of occasions. And you share with us how you build the board, everything from the Super Bowl to Valentine's Day to birthdays, it's amazing. If you don't follow Mattie already, do yourself a favor and just scroll below to do that. But let's start with those those two things. Yeah, why Lean into those specific types of video for short form?
It's interesting, because I think we all go in as creators, right? That even influencers I think you go in and as a creator, and you're like, Oh, I'm going to do this, and it's going to really influence or inspire people. And then you have those kind of random moments, which I think is just in actually in complete alignment with your purpose and what you're supposed to be sharing with the world. And then you know, people really respond to it. Here's what I do know and understand.
I do know that my purpose on earth is to be an encourager, I have a gift of when I speak, I can get people to listen. And I don't take that lightly. And so for me, it's really important to use that gift to encourage because I'm like, even if one person encourages us to go after what we really want, it is actually a game changer, it actually will change the trajectory of your life. If one person just says, You know what, I think you can do this. And I mean, I've seen it in my own life personally. But I've seen it in the lives of people that I know and love personally, I've seen it in the lives of people, like I admire who are athletes and celebrities, and you know, anything of the like. So for me being encouraging is super important. It's it's a huge value, not only personally of mine, but also professionally.
So I think for me, that's always really helpful. And I think also, after such a really delicate season of the pandemic, gosh, I think so many of us do need encouragement, you know what I mean? Because we are kind of transitioning out of that. But the encouragement is always and always will be needed. I think the second thing with the boards that did surprise me, it surprised me. And it didn't, because when I wrote my book, Everyday Magic is really about you know, everyday stuff, right? Because I'm a mom of three, I work from home, I work with my husband, he's my business partner. And so what I realized, though, is that on the internet, we're in this season where everything is a spectacle. Everyone's traveling, everyone has a designer bag, and I think it's cool. I think it's great. You know, I mean, I get excited when people reach certain milestones, they're buying their first home or they're buying a luxury car that they've always wanted. I think these things are good.
But I think what we have to always remember is that we are not our worst moment and we're not our best moment we are actually the decisions we make every single day, the routines we have in place for every single day, the person you are every day is who you actually are. You're not your highest point, and you're not your lowest point. You're that beautiful middle, which I consider MAGIC, right? It's Meaningful. It's Aesthetically pleasing. It's Goal oriented, Intentional and Consistent, or I believe it should be anyway. And I think the boards have that kind of magic, right?
The boards have a an element of spectacle to it, but it's still incredibly approachable. Like, I'm not using anything like super fancy on there, you know what I mean? Like, maybe I get fancy with the cheeses every now and again. But usually, I'm putting like a bunch of like sweet treats on a board for my kids, or I'm putting popcorn and carrot sticks. And I'm just like placing them really cute. And maybe you didn't think of that. But I think that it resonates with people because it is another permission slip of being like, Hey, this is something you can do too. And I think that is like the it factor of my content, right? Like you can do this too.
Then I say this all the time. And I said it in the book. I'm like, you know, I had a girl who called me a regular black girl. She was another black girl, another black woman. And she's like, I don't get why people follow her. She's just a regular black girl. And I'm like, Girl, that's the point. That is the actually the point. You know, and so I do think that there's a level of approachability.
And I think that really comes from me moving around a lot. As a kid, I moved every two years of my life until I was a freshman in high school. And so and I was often the token black kid, and so I had to adjust in all white environments. Almost gosh, it was like my default for the longest time. You know, I was joking around with my husband the other day, and I was like, this is the first time like, I'm not around a bunch of you know, white folks, you know, in Atlanta, it's just like black awesomeness, you know. So I feel like me creating a space for people to feel like they belong to feel like they can do something to it's just part of who I actually am. And I think that's why it resonated so deeply with them. Because that it really was just something that I actually enjoy. I actually make boards for my kids every movie night, which is on Saturday nights. And so it's interesting to me, I don't believe in any way shape, or form that your Authenticity will usually skyrocket you all the way, you know. And usually we're trying to kind of, like, stifle that, because we're trying to follow a trend. But I think those two things are so genuinely authentic to who I am. And I think that's why they worked.
There are so many nuggets that you drop that I again, just want to pull out for our listeners. One is, I feel like that I needed to hear that, you know, you're not your best moment, you're not your worst moment. It's all the decisions in between. That's such a beautiful thing. I feel like that needs to be a print, if you sold it in your merch shop, I would buy it and put it
Right, note to self.
And email to Chris, hey, let's get on that.
That's such a beautiful reminder for all of us. And the second thing I personally took away from what you just shared is, you know, a lot of people look at their content from the lens of like you said, what's what's trending and working right now. But also, you know, what is the purpose in terms of how this ties into my business?
It's interesting to me that you kind of look at your content from a much, much higher level view of what is my legacy or my impact here on this earth? And you said, it's to be an encourager, so you kind of look at your content through the lens of and what way does this encourage someone today? Like what is the emotion, or the emotional impact I want someone to walk away from my content with and that's just such an interesting is there's a different perspective.
So I wanted to pull those things out for our listeners to really, you know, marinate on, of course, I do, from a tactical perspective, want to also ask in including this type of content into your business, how does that directly actually translate into revenues? And that's what our case studies is on, right? Like you getting your business to $3 million in lifetime revenue. How did adding short form content like this, if you're connecting the dots there? How do you see that having directly impacted the income?
Yeah, no, that's such a great question. I think one it certainly got the views and the impressions. I think, one thing I do really like about my content, and this is going to sound completely against the grain but it's like nothing goes viral, per se. I say that very loosely. I you know, I've had one or two that have hit like, almost a million right. But usually things when they go viral hit millions of views. Nothing like that has happened to me. I think there's one from my daughter's kindergarten graduation where she just was dancing so hard and I shared it and she got like a million views. But you know, she she just was dancing and singing her little heart out and I think people love that. Another one that went about like maybe six 700,000 views was my Valentine's Day board the brunch board that I made for Valentine's Day. I think though that that is an advantage that my content doesn't go viral, because it just is consistent, right? Like my, my followers are going to show up or even non followers, if it's put into like the Explore tab, they're going to view it like it's content that's highly shareable, those two specific pieces of content.
And I think brands want to be associated with something that's going to get shared and actually taken into or actually consumed, I think versus it being viral. Like, oh, my gosh, this was so funny. It's like, actually, you know, what, where did she get that board from? Or where did she get like, you know, those are the questions I get, like, where did you get that candy from? Where did you find, you know, sprinkled covered chocolate hearts, you know, like they want those answers.
And what we have found, and I always tell my pitch, please students, you will get paid for the content that you have made the last six months. So currently, every single paid partnership that I have had in 2023, has specifically been for board, we just closed another partnership deal that we'll be working on this month. And it's a food company, they want that food on the board. And so you have to pay attention to what you're creating, you know what I mean, who you're creating it for, but not only in the audience sense, but as a partner, you know.
And so, same thing, like in 2021, I mean, I have so many partnerships that had the element of live video tied in because I was a live video beast in 2020, because we were all at home. And that's when I created Mattie Live. And I started sharing how to grow as an influencer and whatnot. But for me, it's translated to where people are like, hey, we want to be on your boards, because people care about your boards, it's something that you're actually good at, the thing that's really huge for me is as a creator, is because I'm in a season where I have small children, and I work from home, and I take all of that so seriously, is that it has to be in the flow of my life. So I'm currently in a season where my kids are small, you know, in 10 years, they're going to be teenagers, they might not necessarily be home as much they're going to have social lives and extracurriculars. You know, right? Now they care about these boards, you know, in five years, they might not. So I'm running with it. And if that benefits my family, first and foremost, fantastic, if that benefits my audience, you know, that's like the cherry on top. And then if that turns into pay partnerships, it's already part of who I am and what I do.
And I think for me as an influencer, in this stage of my career and of my business, it has to be true to who I am, I feel so lucky that I get to just say no to paid opportunities, just because I know that I can land yeses and paid opportunities to what actually mattered to me. I think what I noticed very, very early on is that the content that's highly shareable is usually what's highly profitable for a brand partner. And so if I can create content that is shared a lot, not even necessarily viewed a lot, or that even has a lot of comments, but if it's highly shareable, it's going to naturally increase the reach on that, right. Most of the people who watch my short form videos aren't even a part of the 134,000 followers I have, usually it's probably about 10% of that. And then the other 90% of people who have viewed that on the Instagram algorithm anyway, are non followers. And so it's powerful that you can even have this incredible reach to people who don't even necessarily follow you who have never seen you before. And brands want to be a part of that. So people will share it. Brands see value in that and they're definitely going to put $1 on a share.
Oh, that's such great insight. If you are a creator, or influencer who monetizes through content and paid partnerships, that right there is something you definitely need to write down looking at your content through the lens of shareability. That's so interesting. But you're right. I think when you're looking at what metrics of engagement Do you want to prioritize in your business? It's going to depend on what type of business you have. But to Mattie's point, if you are a content creation business or an influencer business, then shareability is probably one of the highest metrics that you want to consider when you're looking at your content creation.
And you are helping me out so much Mattie, because everything you're saying just perfectly flows into the next question I was going to ask you, which is about live video, because that this is kind of a second half to this first strategy, right that you've implemented to get to $3 million in revenue. You said you became a live video beast in 2020. Because, you know, the world circumstances kind of dictated that we all stay at home. Now that we're in 2023. And obviously, the world has now opened back up. People are maybe not spending as much time on their phones as they were before in terms of just sitting and watching live streams. How have you continued to utilize live video as a way to not only grow your audience, but also tangentially to this case study to increase your income? So walk us through your live show structure. Are you still doing them frequently, what is the frequency of it? What is the structure of your show? Is it kind of just like, hey, come hang out with me? We'll talk about whatever or is there like a very specific topic or intention that people are coming to your shows for?
Yeah, we still do live video. So Mattie Live was an idea that Chris came up with the concept. And he brought it to me, he's like, "Hey, you love to talk. People like when you talk, let's just just make it a regular thing." And I think so many times we can underestimate or minimize something, if it is not in the package that we thought it should be in.
My lifelong dream is to host a TV show. And I had a friend tell me one time, she's like, you're literally on TV every single day. She's like, 1000s of people see your face every single day on the internet. And just because it's not in that large flat box that's on our walls, or on our streamers on our phone, you're under estimating that she's like, literally, on the minimum, she's like, a quarter million people probably see your face every single month. And she's like, but it's likely closer to a million. And I really put things in perspective for me. And so we decided to just call the segment Mattie Live. And interestingly enough, I just started showing up. And I would have like a theme topic just so everyone could know what they were getting into.
But what really started resonating with a lot of people was like asking questions about being an influencer, and I had had much experience by you know, at that point. So I decided to just start sharing what I knew and just really talk about what is working, you know, what I mean, or what is not working, you know, and why somebody might be having pretty much a block and accomplishing their goals. And that really, really took off. We did it at the same time. And the same day for I want to say we probably went about 14 months where I think I had in 14 months, I had only missed four Wednesdays, we did that when on Wednesdays at 11:30. And I think I had only missed four because of holidays or spring break or whatnot. And what that did was it really created trust with my audience, especially in that specific topic, because I showed up every single Wednesday at the same time, it just created one, it created a habit with my audience. And I think a lot of people underestimate that.
If you can create a habit forming product, it's a wrap. It is a wrap. So many people can't commit to that level of consistency. And again, I was so fortunate because everyone was at home, myself included. And you know, I was just like I throughout the week, I would just think about what's going to be on Mattie Live. Mattie Live, I was always really specific. I always came with notes. I always either make three or five points, because people tend to remember odd number points just in anything, you know. So whether it's a blog post, whether it's a YouTube video, a podcast, right? 333 People tend to remember odd numbers more likely than even numbers. Your only exception is 10. But for me, I didn't want to live, you know, keeping someone interested live. I mean, I have the capacity to do so. But early on, I was like, Ah, let me see what I can get done in 15 minutes.
And that eventually grew to about 40-45 minutes because we would do a live q&a. I love q&a. And I think it also created a deeper connection. The thing that really was huge for Mattie Lives once we realize what was happening is we wouldn't put the replay on Instagram, we would download the replay. And we started a free private Facebook group called Bossfluence, which is now exclusively the company that I do all of my programs and courses through or whatnot. We grew that to approximately 9500 members over the course of two years. We're now right about at the 9000 Mark, and it has been huge and now people are in there and they're sharing like "Hey, I just tried this out. Has anybody noticed their engagements down? I'm on tik tok, what do you guys like" to it's like now this really amazing, nurturing community.
And now we do the Mattie Lives still on Wednesdays at 11. But we do it exclusively in the Bossfluence community. And I tell people on Instagram if you want to watch Mattie Live, just go on over to our free Facebook group. One because you're right, the behavior pattern of consuming live video has changed. And I also want to make sure to because we already have so many people in the community. I want to make sure that if you're really serious about this kind of content and actually growing as an influencer, you'll show up to go up. That's just what it takes, you know.
And so for me the live video is now instead of about growing, it's about nurturing because I'm like I have 9000 people even if I lost half of them, it would still be 4500 people and I think what is happening to so many of us because of social media, we are desensitized by numbers. And like if you were standing in a room with 4500 people, you wouldn't be so nervous you know what I mean? But people are like, well, she only has 200,000 followers. And I'm like, are you okay? Like that is a lot of people!
That's bigger than a lot of cities, right?
Yes!
When you put it into real life parameters, even even when people say, Oh, my video only got 10 views. I'm like, if I just popped you into a cafe today or some a conference room and 10 people showed up and gave you 20 minutes of their time, are you going to look at those 10 people and feel like, that was nothing? Absolutely not. Right. And so I love the way you said that we're desensitized to the numbers. I could not agree with you more. And I find myself guilty of doing that, too.
not saying
It's all of us, though. It's just part of the culture, right? Because we see like the point 5.4% of people who do have these millions of followers, right, we see Tabitha Brown, and we're like, Why aren't my numbers doing what tab is doing? And it's like, well, first of all, Tabs have literally been on the internet for over a decade. So that's one, you know.
And I think that's the other thing, right? We associate somebody's success with it being quick. And I'm like, no, like, she literally left South Carolina to move to LA, to become an actress. So that's first, right like you, you're not seeing the behind the scenes work that people are actually doing. And so for me, it's also really important to remember that when you post content, and I think, to me, this is why I have been able to profit and get better incrementally, I understand that excellence is an increment sport, it's not going to happen, there's not just a day where you're this, and then you jump to that it doesn't go from square one to square 10. It has to go from square one to square two, you got to go from two to three, three to four, and so forth.
You also have to take the stairs, so many people want to take the elevator, what I need everybody to understand is that 80% of the content that you're posting is practice. And you're going to practice how you play. But you're also going to practice way more than you play. So if you're not willing to put into practice, like Yes, something might get 10 views, something might get 1000 views, you know, like I'm saying something right now, like because of my numbers, I'm usually getting anywhere between 20-50,000 views on a reel, you know what I mean? Just because of the numbers just because of my level of consistency, how long I've actually been on the internet, right?
One day, that could be to 3 million, right? And that one day could be in a year right? But it's because I also have literally been on the internet. I always try to tell people this I'm like, You cannot compare my chapter 12 to your chapter one. I've actually been on the internet on an everyday basis since 2010. So what you think is happening fast for me, because you just discovered me has been a long time coming right? I say this for somebody like Tabitha Brown, I say this for somebody like Kev on stage.
I say this for so many of my peers who are now in that what I say that mainstream level, but I also understand that all those people kept on showing up, they kept on showing up whether the views were low, whether five people showed up or whether 500 people showed up, they showed up because of the commitment. Right? Not because of the compliments. They showed up because they were that dedicated to the craft. A lot of people aren't dedicated to the craft. A lot of people aren't dedicated to the service. A lot of people don't have the heart for it, they just want the credit for it. And so if you want to have longevity and you actually want to make money, and like really good money from it, you do have to have a heart for it. And you know, the money cannot be the sole purpose of it because man, you will get bored and annoyed very, very quickly.
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I told you I warned you all when you hit play on this episode, that Maddie is full of one line gold like I was like trying to mentally take notes so I could recap and regurgitate but I can't even I'm sorry. You have to go back rewind to him and it's an RE listen to it again. Because it's so full of truth. It's full of truth and encouragement. It's the hard stuff people don't want to hear. But just I'll do my best.
A couple things that really stood out to me excellence is an increment sport. Never heard anyone say it like that. Love that. It's true. I don't know why we expect excellence on day one of creating content or, you know, starting a business when we wouldn't ever dare to think the same in any other regular sport, right? You don't that
Not anything, not anything like No, no one thought like the day that LeBron got drafted that that was the year he was also going to win the finals. No one thought that no one thought that. But literally people start a Tik Tok account. They're like, I can't believe I don't have a million followers. And it's like, are you okay?
No, it's true. It's the same same thing that we're desensitized to numbers, I think, because everything happens in such an accelerated way online. And you know, our attention is so short, we do have that discovery bias that you mentioned, where if you discover someone, to your point on your 10 of their growth, you look at it as day one because that's your discovery bias, right? And so you have to remember, like you said, you have to look at the full context of what is this person been doing, and for how long to really get to this level. And that's just it's such a good takeaway. And I really hope you all listening, take that to heart. I love by the way, I just have to touch on this.
Before we move to point two, I know we spent a long time on point one, but this was I want to touch on the the fact that you drove your most loyal Mattie Live watchers and viewers and you put them into a community where you have a little bit more. Now granted, Facebook is still obviously run by algorithms. In fact, it's even companies Instagram, but I'm assuming that you will actually I shouldn't assume I should ask, did you ask people to give you their email as one of the requirements to get acceptance into the Facebook group?
It is it is a requirement that you know, the group is free. And I think it's so important. Again, I think, what was really important to me, obviously, email, right, just from a business standpoint, and lead generation point, just as a business owner, it's like I run a business online, I need your email. So I can talk to you and have that. So of course, we all know and understand that.
I think for me even further, if we go back to that emotional element, it was really about platforms was about creating a safe space for influencers where they could ask questions where maybe in like the general comments on Instagram, so I'm gonna be like, I can't believe we didn't know that, or no, you don't want to do this, I wanted it to be really safe, we have very, very clear rules where it's like, there will be no foolishness tolerated in here. So if that is even what you're about, baby, you ain't even got to waste your time, this is not the place for you, we will shut it down immediately.
And it's actually so encouraging how deeply encouraging and engage that community is, especially for that volume of people has really been encouraging for me, and I'm so thankful that I started it and, and even took it further than just getting your email but actually making a designated community for it. But yeah, absolutely. You know, we just say, hey, you know, you can't come in here and just like aimlessly promote yourself, you know, there will be no harmful language. Do you agree to that? And we asked you for your email, and then you're in if you agree to those things.
That's wonderful. And I think, again, so smart in using Mattie Live originally on Instagram that consistency for 14 months, like you said, again, how many things have you truly committed to for 14 months? Really ask yourself that when you're looking at comparing your journey to someone else's right. But using that as a way to build habit, I wanted to pull that piece out because same thing as what we do here on the podcast. If you're a loyal listener, chances are you've shown up Monday after Monday after Monday to listen to these episodes. And that habit is powerful because it's no longer at that point, just consuming a piece of content because you happened upon it. But really, it's done with intention, right?
You have built that into your schedule and your lifestyle the same way you would a doctor's appointment or dropping your kids off at school or whatever it is. And so that piece I really wanted to make sure you all heard and then to Mattie's point finding a way to drive people from the masses into a much more filtered private community that you have more control or ownership of especially asking people as one of the required questions when they're requesting to be part of let's say a Facebook group asking them for their email. So you now own that data, which is so key because you don't own the data of your audience when you're only on social platform.
So that's a wrap to number one, we're gonna quickly go through two and three. But I hope that you really take those things to heart. Okay, so, Maddie, number two, that you implemented in your business that helped you get to 3 million in revenue? Is you started actually pitching brands instead of waiting only for inbound requests. So I want to know, how do you approach cold pitching, what is the structure of your first interaction with a brand, your first outbound email to them? And as a follow up to that, what is the action that you are hoping for at the end of that first email, meaning, for example, when we let's say, cold pitch, a potential brand that we want to partner with?
Typically, the first action that we are hoping to get from that conversation is just to gauge if they're open to exploring collaboration opportunities with us, sometimes that looks like them, just giving a verbal consent for us to send over more information, sometimes it's to book a call, so that we can get on the phone and have that initial conversation. That's how we approach it. But I I'm not sure there's lots of different ways to approach that. So for you what, what is that initial driving action that you want from them based on the first email?
So I'm not sure if anybody here if you're anybody listening, is familiar with Russell Brunson books think I have it and like literally looking at my library, but he has like the secret series. So expert series, .com series, and there's one more series I can't think of it affects the traffic, free traffic secrets. Yeah. I think I read traffic secrets. And he talks about the dream 100. And he talks about, you know, just like the 100 people you want to connect with and collaborate with. And those are the people you should actually really pay attention to online. So we made our own list called the magic 100. And on land, and it's Yeah.
We actually did that for brands, we did it for both people. And we use the people version to do a live series called Magic makers, as I was promoting my book, and then we did a brand version. And that's who we decided to reach out to. And we, I mean, we just got kind of granular with it, we were just like, Okay, who's this brand? Do we have an existing relationship with them? Again, because of how long I've been doing this, I think it was about 5050 50% of it was cold, 50% of it was warm. And I think that was a real huge advantage.
And again, I think you also have to pay attention to what your advantages and lean into that a lot of times, we always want to play from a disadvantage to kind of justify if something doesn't work, and there's like, no boo boo, figure out what you're winning in and go win the championship ring. Let's do that, you know. And so, you know, we do that all the time. It's such a human thing. It's like, you're good at basketball, but you're like, No, no, but I think I could do really well at baseball, and it's like, you're a basketball player, go play basketball, you know.
And so we just made a spreadsheet. So if we did have a contact, we wrote the contacts, you know, their their information and their name, because we wanted to address them by name. We looked at past press releases to see what was like their focus. And then we would put what the focus in the pitch would be right. So if we knew that they had an upcoming collection, or launch coming up and stuff like that, then that's what we would actually personalize within the pitch and the outreach.
And then out of that, as well, this is so good, because I really don't really talk about a lot of this stuff outside of pitch, please, outside of the specific thing we wanted to point to, then we wrote like an alignment point, like how was the Mattie James brand aligned with what matters to them? Because then that, because also you can't really fake that, right? You know, like the whole pay would love to see if you want to work together. And it's like, you know, if I say, "Hey Ellen, love cubicle to CEO podcast, and I know that the last three episodes have really been focused on influencers, and we have an influence", see, so if it's like that, then that level of attention to detail actually shows that I'm paying you attention. And so you actually care, because I'm coming from a point where I am revealing to you that I specifically care about what you're doing, versus just vaguely trying to make something happen.
Yes. So I have a wonderful brand manager, Chrissy, has been with me longer than anybody on my team. And we just collaborate. We're like, Hey, what's going on? And then we also think about, like, we have pretty much the whole year of content for the site planned out. So we theme out each month. So I'm like, Okay, if we're focusing on organization, you know, is there an opportunity or what does Container Store have going on? You know, in the month that we're launching that and don't we have a contact from there, and then we just start connecting the dots. It's like CSI, we start pin boarding everything ever like what's going on. I mean, I do think it has to be that granular, I think you do have to get one.
It's certainly easier, in some ways, in a lot of ways, but it's certainly easier if you have a team that can help you do that. So I'm really fortunate because I have to create the content. So I have somebody who's literally dedicated to doing that part for me. But I will say like, if you're a solopreneur, or you're figuring it out, just create like a PR email account from you and just like run it from like your PR, or like your marketing account, just so it feels a little bit more, I don't know, a little bit more pointed, you know what I mean?
Because when it comes straight from the Creator, I get it like brands and agencies can kind of act weird or whatever. But if they see like that you have like a dedicated PR, dedicated marketing, even if it's just still you, you know what I mean? And it's just like, hey, PR, you know, at cubicletoceo.com, then it's like, oh, okay, this is the PR inbox. So they must be serious about, you know, whatever they are talking about. And I think that was one of the biggest things for me that I did early on, I just had a PR, I think it was PR@Mattyjames.com have never had a publicist. I've never had a publicist. And I wasn't acting like I was a publicist. But it was just like, you know, it would just say like Maddie James PR in your inbox whenever I reached out and stuff like that.
And so now we've gotten a little bit more pointed about the outreach, and just doing research literally looking for current press releases, old press releases, literally paying attention to the news, things like you know, Women's Wear Daily, or I mean, anything essence.com Just like paying attention to what's going on in niches and categories that matter to me. I'm also paying attention to either conferences, I want to attend or speak at, you know, events, you know, whether it's South by Southwest, whether it's the Oscars, whether it's the you know, NAACP Image Award, whatever it is, it's like, what are we paying attention to? What do they have going on, but it does require you to pay attention.
And sometimes it is just like, creating a reminder in your calendar to go review what's going on, you know, for Essence fest or what's going on for the VMAs, whatever it is that matters to you. So that's pretty much how we did that we just kind of made a magic 100 list kind of filled out us, you know, a spreadsheet with details and just kind of took it from there. And just would our first point is usually like, can we get on the phone, like, we're usually pretty specific. In the initial email, we won't send like a press release a press release my press kit or anything like that without permission. But usually, I'm like, if I can get you on the phone, I can get you to like me. So my goal is just to get you on the phone. I'm like, let's just get you on the phone. Once I get you on the phone, it's usually good.
Yeah, no, I we have a very similar approach, then in terms of establishing that initial connection or relationship for cold contacts is let's get on the phone and really understand what we're working on separately, and how there may be crossover together, how we can amplify what each other is doing, which I think is beautiful. One awesome tip that you kind of just threw in there that I wanted to make sure our listeners heard is your research process of looking at current and old press releases, which if you go to Google and you go to the News tab, it's quite easy to actually to filter by that for the companies or potential brands that you want to work with. And you you were talking about it from the lens of getting a sense of their promotion, calendar, right. So you can kind of align your initiatives with the timing of theirs.
But another thing too, is at the bottom of every single press release, they have to include a contact email, right? Because in fact, they have to notify the press. If you want to cover this story, who should you reach out to on our team to make that happen? And so granted, the publicist for a company may not always be the right contact to have a conversation with about brand partnerships, but they sure as heck know who would be the right person to connect you with. And so that's just an extra little tip. I wanted to make sure you guys all caught.
I think what you do really well, Mattie is of course relationships. And one of the things you had mentioned to me that really helped grow your revenue to that $3 million mark is maintaining long term relationships with brands and getting them back as repeat business. So can you touch on that point? What is your best way to turn a contact that was a cold pitch that then became an actual paid collaboration? How do you then take that and get them to come back and work with you again and again, like what is your best tip or strategy around making that happen?
You never want to let a warm contact become cold again. So usually at the top of the year we just like run through like every single person we talked to we we didn't do this last year and I want to make sure we do it this year but we usually will send a holiday card to every single person we worked with every single person I will hand write a note. Just be like, "hey, it was great working with you." And it was a way for them to receive something from me. And of course, just be nice.
But then it's like, as you start the new year, you know, hopefully I'm at the front of your mind, you know. And I know that most creators or other partners aren't doing that they're not taking that extra step. So I'm always willing to take that extra step. And then just kind of touching base at the top of the year, which is nice, because usually fiscal decisions haven't been made yet. But again, I'm on the front of your mind, by the time you guys do make that decision. And then really just like the small things like making sure we say thank you. You know, via email after every single partnership is great working together.
I think that Chrissy and I, who, you know, who is my brand manager, have done a really good job figuring out what the rhythm is, and stuff like that. And I think the other thing that we've tried to do, and we do this on a quarterly or even semi annual basis, usually quarterly is that if I mentioned a brand and organic content, and we have that contact info, we send it to them, like, "Hey, just wanted to give you a heads up. Maddie mentioned you guys and her latest blog." And then again, it puts me back in the front of your mind. But especially with the content, you know, as a creator, it's like, oh, this is potentially what a partnership could look like. So now you don't even have to guess what working with me looks like it's already there.
And I usually only mentioned a brand and organic if I actually liked them and use them anyway. So it's a win win situation for everyone, right? It's, it's a win win, because I actually liked the product, and I'm using it. So it's bringing value to my life, it's adding value to my audience, because I'm informing them about a product that I actually like. And then it's also added value, because it's literally free promo for the brand I'm actually using.
So for me, those have been things that have really elevated our relationships. And again, just kind of like, Hey, make sure you keep us in mind or just kind of giving them a heads up like, Hey, I know it's a little far out from holiday. But you know, during Black Friday, we're thinking about doing this this and that, you know, just you know, keep us in mind when you're making Black Friday decisions. I think just also those touch bases go a really long way.
Absolutely, that intention to keep top of mind is so key. I'm curious, do you at the close of campaign ever immediately follow up with "Hey, I loved what we just finished working on together? Here's a new idea for how we can continue this work next month or next quarter?" Do you immediately pitch a specific new campaign idea off the back of the close of an existing one? Or do you typically not do that? And you're only focusing on let's say, you know, keeping yourself top of mind through more, let's say organic mentions, and you know, holiday cards are those kinds of notes of gratitude?
I think it's 5050? Because I think depending on the partnership, because its timing, right. So we did we have done that for quite a bit though, now that I think about it. We have done that where we have turned one month partnerships into a quarterly partnership, we have done that with like a quarterly situation and turned it into annual. But I think again, because the timing and the fit was right. Sometimes that's not always the case. You know, even if nothing went wrong, you know what I mean? Which 99% of the time, something doesn't go wrong, you know, but usually you can tell like, oh, this was something incredible, we should really run with this. So again, whenever we see an advantage, and if you leave that door cracked open, we're definitely going to ask if we can open it a little bit more.
So we certainly have done that. I wouldn't say it's like a default step after each partnership. But you know, maybe now that I'm thinking about it, though, I'm like, why not? I mean, like, again, nothing goes wrong. It's like, Hey, we should do this again.
Yeah totally just like planting that seed in their head and, and giving them a specific idea that they can kind of run with and yeah, totally. Alright, that was really helpful to kind of hear your approach on how you're maintaining and nurturing those relationships and extending the lifetime partnership.
The final strategy that really helped you get to that $3 million. Mark is launching a course and you actually use your live video to help create hype and momentum for the live course launch. I'm just curious from a revenue perspective these days. What percentage of your revenue would you attribute to core sales from Bossfluence versus your brand partnerships and other income streams?
It's like probably 70% Matty James. You know, the Mattie James company 30% launching. And I think we really want to even that out more than I mean, I'm like, we really want to ship that this year. really aim to get that number more to 50-50 Yeah, and it's interesting because like launching is based off of me, right? It's not based off of waiting for brands. I think even if I'm inconsistent, right, I usually am still doing live video a couple times a month and stuff like that. So my audience is always pretty warm. Because I am a career creator, I would definitely say in 2020 and 2021, my audience was hot. So anytime I would launch something, it was a five figure launch anytime.
And when we launched pitch, please is my signature program. I want to be clear, I created pitch, please. Originally in 2017, it was a $97 masterclass. I just was happy to share the information, I'm still happy to share the information now. But I think it's about as Besides sharing information, now I understand that I'm sharing value like this is usefulness that actually can be applied in your business versus just being like, hey, you should try this, you know, right good to know, versus like, Oh, I see a tangible result in my life for business, right. And then even having a level of clarity of like action steps that should be taken depending on where you are in your business. So even again, that nuance getting that granular. I was like, Oh, I'm useful, whether you have never pitched a brand before or you've pitched and never gotten responses, I know how to turn the dial to make this work for you.
And so then I think we had various iterations of pitch, please. And then I realized I was like, Oh, this is the thing people ask about the most this is, you know, so we turned it into a high ticket program. For the most part, we only accept 25 People think we're gonna tweak that a little bit, I think we have the bandwidth to accept a little bit more, but we only accept 25 people because it is high ticket. And the thing that we did differently, these last two times that I launched is that we did not do a free webinar, the webinar was $97. And so just off of that alone, I think that was huge.
Because I mean, it made a noticeable dent into, you know, the launch numbers. So it's like, it was pretty much like right under a six figure launch with the webinar. And then it was like a quarter million dollar launch with the well once you totaled both who bought the you know, who was entered into the program, and a part of the webinar. And so I think that was huge. And so while we probably would have even doubled the amount of attendees, I would have had had that rote webinar been free. I was like, You know what, let's try this. And let's, let's see if this works and stuff like that.
Yeah. And did you find that the conversion rate on the back end, though, was much higher, because the people were more qualified as they had qualified themselves by, you know, paying to even show up to the masterclass or the webinar?
You know, I was like, is this a good idea? What's going on? But again, because I had shown up for my audience so much, it ended up really, really being massive for me for sure.
I think people take it a little bit more seriously, like when there is an actual buy in versus like, you know, yes, give me the email. And again, I think people are so familiar with webinars, and I think there's pros and cons with both right? I probably, like I said, would have doubled the amount of attendees had I not done a paid webinar, but that was fine, because I only can accept a certain limit of people in pitch, please anyway, because it does come with live coaching for eight weeks. So for me, I was like, well, that's fine, we like that's an L I'm willing to take because of the gain, I'm gonna get on the other end. And so you know, and it was a lot of back and forth.
Thank you for sharing so transparently, just all throughout this conversation with your data, your numbers, and what you're implementing in real time. This is what I love about our guests in the hot seat is that they're so willing to really share behind the scenes of what's going on in their business, not just oh, here's the polished, you know, final product of my area of expertise. So I really like that approach of using context as a way to make a decision on for example, like you said, because pitch plays has such limited seats. Knowing that in advance, you have the advantage of being able to say okay, let's filter down the the top of funnel because the bottom of funnel is is limited capacity versus if someone was creating a DIY course with unlimited scale and capacity. It might not make sense for them to use a paid masterclass.
So, I think that's that's just the the key that I want all of our listeners to take away is whatever Mattie shared here today. Take what makes sense for your business and leave the rest as as as always, but as an influencer. As a creator. I think you can learn so much from someone like Mattie who has built a seven figure influencing business and really understand the way her mind works when she's approaching these different decisions and processes. So, Mattie, thank you so much for your time today. Where can people continue to connect with you read your book, and just engage with all of the magic in your community.
Well, thanks so much for having me, Ellen. Everyone, you can follow me over at Mattiejames.com That's where the blog lives and you can sign up for my email list there. You can follow me @theMattieJames on everything. It's literally the same handle everywhere. Thank goodness. So on Instagram mainly but you know certainly on Pinterest and YouTube and everything else that you can think of. And then last but not least, if you are interested in joining Bossfluence we would love to have you. You can join Bossfluence over on Facebook just type in bossfluence. It's not Boss Influence. We took out the i n so it's BOSSFLUENCE and join us and you can come check out Mattie Live every Wednesday at 11 eastern.
Amazing. Thank you so much, Mattie.
Thanks, Ellen.
Hey, Ellen here. Thank you again for tuning in to cubicle to CEO. If you enjoyed today's episode, follow our show on Instagram at cubicle to CEO for more bonus content and hop on the last Tuesday of each month to watch our live after show with recent guests. If you want to support our podcast, text this episode link to a friend, leave a positive review on Apple podcasts or rate our show wherever you're listening right now. Please make sure you also hit the Follow button on Apple it looks like a plus sign. Or click Subscribe on your favorite podcast player so you don't miss out on our new episodes every Monday and friends until next time, keep dreaming big.
