Hey everybody, it's Savannah and have enough hair from creative works. And you're listening to the creative work talk podcast, a podcast brought by creative workspace in the heart of EA 17. London.
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This creative works talks,
let's go get into it. All right, so good afternoon. So today, you're our second guest, on our creative works, talks podcast. And yeah, so we're talking to you, Shray. And basically, just let us know who you are, what is it that you do and like, what inspired you to be who you are now?
Fantastic. I'm Shray. I am the founder and creative director of Creative Chimps. So every brand, every company has a story. Story, that is the reason for their existence. And it usually starts off with a single person, their story. And my story is essentially that I just wanted to be better. I knew there was a certain distance, I could go within creative design. But having a company and growing a company, I knew that the possibilities would be endless. And so hence the birth of creative chips, which is a branding and campaigns led consultancy.
Okay, nice. Nice. So my first question is, how did you come up with the name creative chimps?
That's a good question. I was given a deadline by my wife got one hour? Oh, wow. Because I know, I know. Because otherwise, whenever you do anything for yourself, you can talk to any person who has their own business, it takes forever, always get someone else to do it. So she gave me a deadline, said one hour and simply put credit, Seamus, chimps come to mind a bit tongue in cheek. But chimps are a living community of animals that use tools. And that's pretty much how we help our clients, we are working with communities we are building with random. We're doing that by building or creating the appropriate tools to allow them to do that.
Okay, that's different like that. I don't know, I thought I was gonna have like, like a cliche story of like, Oh, I was walking in and was like, Okay, I wanted to do something.
Just like something that you knew when someone says something like, Oh, yeah.
I was thinking, because this podcast is also part of the what we're doing in including works. And you have your talk on the 23rd. So we are recording this slightly earlier. So I wonder if you can just like anticipate a little bit what you're going to talk about. So we can take it from Sure. Yeah,
and isolate me. So the talk will be about storytelling and storytelling within design. And, as mentioned, we work mainly with branding and campaigns. And so every brand, every campaign begins, life is a story. And stories evoke emotion. And when you evoke emotion, you make people feel something. So it's it's really the oldest and best way to connect humans to anything, connect them to an object to a brand or company. And so that's going to be a little bit of what I will be talking about, on the 23rd as well as how we make those stories means something, how we make them meaningful, how we make them engaging, and how we can use them, essentially, to sell what we're passionate about and inspire people. How do you pick the story? So the story I will say, if I'm working with a company or a brand, they all have a story. And if for some reason that story has become a little bit fuzzy through time, that usually happens when businesses scale up. And there's lots of different areas within that business and suddenly that initial story is just kind of got I guess saturated. Well, that's when we work with them to get back to their why get back to why they first came up. That's why why they were passionate why this company exists in the first place. It's a little different to campaigns. I mean, it's the same principles. But campaigns obviously define what the outcomes are what you want from that campaign. So, last year, we did a campaign in the northwest of England. And it revolved around a community, the minority community, which had suffered or which had, at some point, come under some kind of racism. And it was about building communities. But it was also about not just within the minorities, but within everyone else, as well. So it's about inspiring people and making them hopeful that the community they're in is strong, it's positive, and they can do good work in there. So those are the outcomes. So we knew we had to create a story around that. But the story came from how these people felt when they had come under such racism, and about turning that around, so that people didn't feel alienated from that, but they felt empowered and positive. And that's people who are in the minorities and people outside the minorities.
I wonder, like, in terms of you said, like, storytelling is about emotions, and how do you control the emotions when they tell the story? Like because, you know, it's interesting to so everyone has his own business, and then he's so passionate about that business, that they want to tell the story about their business, but maybe like, it's not that interesting, actually, the story? How do you make the story interesting?
Oh, interesting. Um, I personally was unless a company has built and there are companies, obviously, that do get built, because there's a financial incentive. And they just know that, especially with tech, there's good tech. So, you know, they know that they can create something that no one else is created. So there's a lot of, you know, the first to market those kinds of businesses. They may rely on other things. And then you do have to build a story around that. However, I do believe that pretty much every brand or company started off with a story. And I think that is interesting, because otherwise, why would it began in the first place, it had to have that impetus, or that motivation for them to begin something. And for them to inspire people to work for them. So I would say it's about defining what those values are. So there's a story, but then there's the values that are attached to that story. And every company like say, there are points where it becomes a bit fuzzy, it's like getting back to that. And sometimes those values change. And those values change simply because the company grows, there are more people in it. But that doesn't mean it's not where the company originally started. So it's about having a vision. It's about having a set of values, and they are all aligned to that initial story. So you, I
guess, you ask a lot of questions.
Yes. There's a lot of research 100% A lot of research also, it's also useful to do like market research in that kind of the competition, the field that they're playing in, what is everyone else doing? Like them? Why are they doing and why are they so successful? It's really important that people don't forget why they started,
what's the most interesting storytelling that you've told?
That's a good question. I mean, I can relate it to a charity that I work for. There's a charity called ablechild. Africa, they set up 15 years ago, they do a lot of work outside, and they build schools, and they want to make education as accessible to everyone as possible. So that was in terms of the storytelling for that. It was great. Because we're able to work with a kid it was kids that did it, basically. That's why it was exciting. The kids were so motivated, they were so positive. They didn't have nothing in them as much as what we would have here. But they just wanted to go to school. They wanted to be educated. They It was then they basically told the story. So we just use them. There was a point where they were just shouting in in, in the schoolyard. They were like, we're able we're able to do this. And we're able to do that. And it's called ablechild. Africa. So the the tagline became, we are all April. And it was about picking the kids up. But it's also the kids were picking up the adults as well, because it's the adults as well that are like not always positive because I understand what's going on. But because of the kids were having so much fun. It just became Yeah, it became an easy an easy project to work on.
Yeah. I feel like we've spoken so much on storytelling and the stories you've told, but we haven't actually gotten overweight is exactly that you do.
Sure, well, in terms of what I do so in terms of branding and campaigns, We pretty much will do anything. So we're a consultancy. So I have a group of people that heavily rely on to work on all projects. So we work with developers, we work with presentation specialists, we work with filmmakers. So we we've, we've created websites for people, we've created films with a Child Africa, it was a film that was used for the website, it was for people that would want to put money into charity, but it was also for the investors as well. There's always a reason, usually, for these things to be produced. But it had the design effect. So I mean, in terms of what we do, we went through pretty much anything in the design field, not so much on the digital side in terms of, you know, the tech side and the apps. But in terms of websites and digital tools for for companies, and yeah, yeah. Well,
I know that you're like a very creative person. And you have many, many projects outside as well. And you're part of the writing club as well, like creative works. So tell us, tell us about that. Projects and what you're writing about.
It's great. The wright club is brilliant. It's so good. I, it's so funny. It came at a time that I've been I've I've written especially for a company, I've written my whole life. And I've done copy for countless companies, but it's not something I ever focused on. And then creative work started doing a write club and I thought, come coincidentally, or if there are anything that that considered a coincidence, and I was like, okay, so this. And now there's just people from all walks of life they're writing. So we've got filmmakers, screen screenwriters, we have stand up comedians come in poets, and filmmakers. And it's just a great environment. So now I'm outside of this outside of my work, I'm writing short stories, and the right club gives me the kind of the time and the space to do that. And it's very productive. And it's just great because you meet all of these different people that you can then collaborate with. And actually, one of the people that I met, there is also a creative works. We've now become working on a podcast together. So. So yeah, that's exciting. Again, we both work. She's a filmmaker, as Tasha. And we both work with audio, but it's so weird when you do something like a podcast. It's a whole new ballgame. Like, but yeah, so And there's an I also know, a fair amount of musicians and I'm also working on a music video with a musician. And he's planning to create a lot of videos. So yeah, see how that goes. Okay,
so um, if you don't mind me asking this question, how long have you been working in the industry?
You all know my age.
I'd be working for around 20 years.
Okay. Yeah. So fun. Um, what advice would you give a young person coming into the industry or even just anyone who, maybe young or not, is looking into coming into the creative industry.
I mean, it's so much so much advice. I think there's nothing that can replace passion and enthusiasm. It, it is a tough industry to come into, which is why you need that. But I think if you if you work hard, if you experiment, I think especially when you're young experiment, keep experiment. I'm not just saying young, but when we don't worry so much about what line it is you're going into it or or become useful. Because a creative industry is so vast, it's so useful to knows all the different things and the different areas that are that are going on. So look to mentors, look to role models, find people that you can relate to, they don't have to be in your specific industry, but they will have a process. And I think it's like anything when you start doing something. So I, I create music, I write songs. And when I started that, what you begin to do is that you emulate your heroes, you start copying them, and that's fine. There's nothing wrong, you do the same design, you start copying people, and you're like, that's how you design but if you do it enough, you start finding your own style. So it's a journey. So be prepared for the journey. There'll be a fun journey. It'll be a hard journey. Also have a thick skin. If you're doing any kind of creative work, you are going to get some constructive feedback and I have as well, some not so constructive feedback. So keep a thick skin. But I think it's really important whenever you create something that you're able to justify why you did it. And it's hardly ever because it looks good. Yeah. That's not a good reason to do something.
Okay, um, also to follow up. Um, yesterday, we had like an event here. And obviously, this will be in the future. So it wasn't yesterday, it was the seventh. But, yeah, it was a panel talk. And a lot of everyone that was on there were freelancers. So this is just an assumption. But if I was listening, correct, I'm gonna assume you started off freelancing.
good assumption.
Yeah. So again, to elaborate off of like freelancing. What, not just advice, but how did you find starting off as a freelancer and then developing into your own business?
Yeah, no really good questions. I think it's like anything, everything's a leap, you go from GCSE to a level, it's really a levels to university, if you go to college, if you go, it's a leap. And then from that to working is another leap. And it's the same with freelancing. So at some point, I think I always knew that I couldn't work for someone forever. That was just in me, that's not in everyone. There are different reasons to be freelancing. But I wanted to go off and do my own thing. And it was a Leap, leap to do that. And I think freelancing first definitely helped me sell my company because I'd already taken a leap, I've taken a leap of faith. And this is not good advice. I've left every job without a job to go to Don't Don't do that. I've done that, because I just got to the end point was, I don't think I can do any more here. And it wasn't satisfying me and I just needed to leave. There are better ways to plan this. But for me, it helped because I was always making leaps in my career. I didn't have something to go to, I didn't have a safety net. So the freelance was a leap to start my own business was a big leap when you start it, but when you think back to it, you're like, you know what, it was no bigger than being a freelancer, it's no bigger than I went, I went, in fact, if you came from GCSEs A levels, that's probably the biggest lead you're going to do in your life. So everything else is a little bit easier. It's just I understand you're worried about the money but if you've got a passion for it, and you find your way, and network, I'm rubbish at networking, but you find people that you get on with, like you will like and if they're in the same industry, it's so useful. I think soft skills are undervalued, make good relationships with people. Definitely don't burn your bridges design mod any creative world. It's very small. I have seen so many people with this ago. Yeah. So yeah.
Yeah. Unless you're very good, like a genius. You can
get to that top point.
I think it's like a one of the thing that came out yesterday as well, like was, yeah, the passion thing as well. And also trying to understand if you want to become a freelancer, that was where the is you said like, it's easy enough for everyone like, you know, so and it. There's nothing wrong with it. Yeah. So if you want to be a nine to five or like, have a side gig. Yeah. Sometimes it's just that it is. Yeah. Do you want to? I mean, I'm quite sure by the time this bit, we're going to cut it. Yeah, it definitely is. 134. Yeah, we've
been filming for 20 minutes. Well, 19 minutes. Okay.
So yeah, we can just like, I have a question from the previous guests. So and this is this one, the previous guest is we talked about embodiment, and how your body feels emotions. And today, we talked about storytelling and how you tell the story through your emotions. So there's actually kind of a nice connection there. So this person Ashley was asking, what question do you wish people would ask you about yourself your work that you want dying? You're dying To? To? To answer that question, I just read it the first time. Like, yeah, she
wrote it down.
So what question do you wish people would ask you about yourself or you're aware that you are dying to answer
Oh, wow. That is a good question. Yeah, and it takes 10 minutes I mean, that's even making me think that's my Yeah, tell you.
I'm not very good at selling that'd be Wow. Just sort of thing. A difficult one is a difficult one. Yeah, that
was really intense for the first question girl was very deep.
It's very deep. And it's just related to my work.
But this is interesting, though, because that's actually. So when we do the work for others, we ask questions like that. Yeah. But we don't answer them true. Yeah. likely she was going to be asked.
Yeah, cuz it's almost like that question when you're in the interview and be like, Okay, tell me about yourself. Like, do you want to know what time I was?
I was keeping like, to your work. So is that anything that you know? I mean, you want to share about your work or yourself that? Nobody knows?
Okay. I mean, this is this is probably going to be a cliche. And I'm not even sure. So that was like to answer but I think maybe it will help. Because it's talked about a lot. But basically, there is there's always this concern about being a charlatan in your own field of work, not feeling like you're very good at it or not feeling that you, you're you're the best at what you do. And it's a continuous feeling. And yeah, I think I think it's something that's good to talk about, because I think every person I've talked to, and I've met some amazing designers, or architects or, or other people, and they all feel this at times. And it's not saying that everyone doesn't feel it's fine to feel that I think that just makes you better, or what you do. I think it's, it helps me because it keeps me on edge, it makes me feel nervous, it makes me want to do better. It makes me want to work harder. And I think it also gives you some sometimes relatable to your clients. And I think that's what you forget, you think that you have to be this perfect, pristine person, when you go in front of clients. And you don't, you really don't because they're often they they're going to employ you a lot for you. The work is going to be there to show you that they've already got you in so they've seen your work, they won't get you in have them seen your work so they know that your work is going on. So really it comes down to you and your personality, and they're seeing can we work together? Do they share the same values? So I think that that that feeling of not feeling good enough or not feeling like I'm very good at my job is a good feeling because it makes you want to work harder to be better. I get that. I don't know if that answers the question.
No, I think it's very interesting point. I think it does. Because it's the imposter syndrome. Yeah. Yeah. That we have is just it's it's something that is really tough to talk about. Yeah. Because it because you know, when you pitch something to a client, you don't want to sound insecure or not have the right answer when they ask you why this budget is not not a lower budget. Yeah. And you have to actually stand for your quote, your skills and quality and how you deliver. So difficult.
I feel like at the same time, you don't want to be overconfident as well. Exactly. And then where you sound arrogant? Yeah. So it's like having to find that middle ground. Yeah, sometimes it's quite difficult because sometimes you feel like, Am I like, what's the word? Like, not under appreciated? And why am I like low in my value? Yeah, but then I've done my estimates on the estimate and myself. But at the same time, I don't want to over estimate. Yeah, yeah.
And they're over. Yeah, it's all about emotions, right. It's like it was like, it comes from how you grew up, like the bit that your values, your values, the your work ethic. And I think it's something that is relatable to the young creatives that we have around a we see coming over, or I spoke to for like, you know, in interviews and stuff, and you see that the attitude, and the personality is the one that actually captures your attention. Yeah, yeah. Not necessarily the skills No, not necessarily the the ground, you know, work that you've done, like in the past, whatever. It's more about how you are how do you connect with me? How do you understand me? How do you listen actively? So that those are like, definitely Yeah, so I think is a is right on? Yeah. So think about your questions to ask. Why was very quick question. afterwards. Yeah.
We can't disclose anything I say good everyone Yeah,
cuz she learned it really poetically.
Yeah, this is classic but she took it back
online that's fine. That's fine.
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