S11 E14 Jonathan Cormur: Embracing Neurodiversity in Voice Acting and Beyond

12:51PM Jan 4, 2024

Speakers:

Tim Villegas

Keywords:

podcast

jonathan

play

people

stories

voiceover

school

inclusive education

theater

dice

inclusive

helped

bucky

disability

feel

characters

put

acting

audio

hour

Hi friends, I'm Tim Vegas with the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education and you are listening to thinking inclusive, our podcast that brings you conversations about inclusive education, and what inclusion looks like in the real world.

Have you ever been watching an animated movie or TV show and thought, Who am I listening to? Or who does the voice of this character? Well, our guest this week is Jonathan comer, a voice actor, and the host of The Dark tales storytime podcast. He has a passion for storytelling, and brings classic fairy tales to life with a geekish twist. In this episode, Jonathan shares his experiences in voice acting and working in theater. Jonathan emphasizes the importance of authentic representation of disabilities in audio and encourages more opportunities for neurodivergent individuals. He reflects on his own journey with autism, and the impact of inclusive education. Jonathan also shares his dreams for his career, and the positive message of his podcast. This week's episode is brought to you by MCIE Ease inclusion stories, our five part podcast series that tells the stories of families, educators and school systems on their journey to full and authentic inclusive education for each and every learner. All five parts of inclusion stories are available now. Follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast player. After a short break my interview with Jonathan comer and for free time this week. I've got a podcast recommendation for you.

Jonathan comer, welcome to the thinking cluesive podcast. Thank you for having me. Once Once you tell me a little bit about dog tails.

Georgiou storytime podcast is a it's a fracture. It's kind of like a sort of a fractured fairy tale kind of thing. It's like, the tagline is classic fairy tales with a geekish twist. Where I kind of put my me in the team, we kind of put our own spin on these classic stories. And the idea is it's set in a, in a in a universe in a land of Once Upon a Time. So like an alternate world where Jonathan neurulation and his friend, slash co host, Mr. Reginald T. Hedgehog, are kind of telling stories from their home and once upon a time, and they're telling these stories that kind of relate to a situation or deal with any kind of like, you know, maybe an issue like, like, if somebody has an argument, they'll tell a story or something to inspire. And speaking of Inspire, there's not just the the dark tales, as they're called. There's also the hidden heroes of history, where we go through different people who were who did made very, like important historical contributions, but never, you know, just aren't really talked about that much. But they still were very important. Like we deal with people like Hedy Lamarr. George Washington Carver, Tenzing Norgay. Patricia Bath, the one we did was Jerry Lawson, who helped create the I think there's a Google Doodle game with him about him and he kind of was a man who was influential by creating the first or helping to create the first console that you can switch different like games on different cartridges on and that Atari ended up kind of buying and using for their systems. So you know, just different kinds of people in addition to the fairytales. Oh,

so is that in the same podcast feeders, for podcast,

it is I mean, it's in the it's in the exact same feed the exact same characters Jonathan and Mr. Rhett and and Reginald Telling the stories and stuff like that Jonathan's usually the go to storyteller. Although sometimes we'll either Mr. Reg will tell us a story or we'll bring on a guest, a guest actor to tell the story, like we did with wretches night school, which I believe you promoted.

Yes, yes, yes, we put that in our newsletter, the weekly ish. Well, that, you know, so you have a quite impressive demo reel was some research for our interview. I was like, oh, and it just keeps going. And it just keeps going. So why don't I would love to know if there's a voice acting job or experience that really stands out to you as something that was, you know, really special. There

are really two. The first one I think was that was really special and how it sort of built my confidence was working for California's Great America, which is a theme park run by the same people who do like Knott's Berry Farm and I forget the name of the cedar Cedar Point. And stuff, big theme park chain, they were owned by Paramount. And when I first started working there, and then when they were no longer owned by Paramount, they were bought out by by Cedar Point. They, they they, they didn't have any of the voiceovers like the Nickelodeon voiceover stuff anymore. So I went to the, in some baffling thing popped in my head, I went there. Hey, I'm a voiceover actor. Maybe I could do some announcements for you. And I ended up working at the park for like over five years. And hearing yourself in the park was weird. But what was even weirder about it was everyone who heard me, no one knew who I was, because I was kind of officially like, I was kind of outside the normal park staff. And everyone knew who I was. So when the time came to work on like, the Halloween haunts, which I did do live, I didn't really want to tell people and stuff. And then some of the tech people blabbed and stuff and so everybody knew who I was. And it was so weird. It was like, I was a sound so strange, like, like a celebrity. And I was like, Really, and I everybody in the park knew me and they, they they all liked me. It was like the first time I had like a really large group of people who, you know, had a positive, positive relationships with like, like a lot of friends and stuff. So that's one of them. And you can still hear me on one of the rides Welcome to go and striker. We're gonna strike and rage, Nash. And then the second one was, when I went to do mo cap, I worked on a video game from 2k. And that was a, that was a day. Because nothing that happened went according to plan. The schedule changed. What was supposed to be a two day recording turned into one. I showed up like the night before I rested. I was there. I we read through the scene in the morning, which they changed the dialogue the night before, by the way, read through the scene in the morning. Then I spent the whole afternoon in a what was basically a wet suit with ping pong balls on it, because it was the motion capture suit. So if you want to know what it's like, it's basically a wet suit with ping pong balls on it. And the whole time they had to pick up because one of the actors, the main characters had a scheduling conflict so they can only do one day. That's like well, okay, so who am i right? So I I did okay, one day fine, did in the morning, had breakfast and then they had to do a pickup one scene, which took them forever to do. It was so long and the day was getting shorter. And we were like, an hour away from when they like the studio. The warehouse closes. We're an hour away. We haven't even got to my scene yet. We're an hour away. We're finally getting in my scene. And the writer and directors said Now Jonathan all Don't worry. It'll be fine. All you have to do is just be really scared and stressed out and I'm like, trust me. That's not going to be acting. I knocked it out in a half hour.

Nailed it. Yeah,

we had an hour left. I knocked it out and a half hours so.

Oh my goodness. That

was fun. It was fun to do it

Yeah, so you were in. So you were in a video game, so they didn't just use your voice and they used your they use your body? Yes, they did. Wow. That must have been Yeah, that's that's different, right? Well, yeah, experience.

Well, actually it was it was so interesting because I got my start in theater acting, I took drama first. And so I'm used to actually, you know, performing on stage. So, in a weird way, it was kind of like acting a scene in a play or a film more like a film. You're just acting like it normally. Except, again, you're, you have a big kit, you have a little camera attached to your like a selfie camera attached to your head, wearing a helmet with a selfie camera attached your head in a wetsuit with ping pong balls. So that's the only real difference. Yeah.

And so you do have a lot of a lot of work. You've done a lot of work in voice acting. And you said you did some work in theater as well. Is there something that you're working on right now?

Um, not at the moment. I usually do like some shorter plays, actually, a few years ago, you know, before, before 2020, I did a I worked for role I worked with a local theater. And I did a Star Wars the entire Star Wars trilogy in an hour. I got to play. Yeah, it was really fun. I got to play we ended the whole the entire original trilogy in like an hour, I got to play Darth Vader, Yoda. And the big Abominable Snowman thing that tackles Luke in the beginning of the second movie, as well as like a few other like little things because it was a small it was a you know, modest sized casts. We all play different, except for the people who are on screen all the time. But switching between the Darth Vader, which is so fun to do. And Yoda, which was a Kermit the Frog hand puppet with ears attack with like ears attached to it was was great fun.

Do you identify yourself as someone with a disability? And how do you think disability can be more authentically represented in audio specifically?

You know, I'm maybe it's just because I'm old. And I grew up in a different time where like, I was picked on a lot as a kid. And so it's a lot of it right now. It's just, it's like, you can call me whatever you like, darling. Like, I mean, I've learned over the years that I was happier when I stopped caring. And that seems very harsh. But that's like the only really word I can say when I stopped really like, being bothered by or worrying what other people thought of me, and more about what I thought about myself. And because if you like yourself, people will like you, I think liking yourself. But then when I say that, like it's easy, though, that took a lot of, you know, time and building relationships with people and gaining confidence in myself to really come to that understanding. So it's not like it was an easy thing. But in regards to mess, like representation, it's it's so tricky with VoiceOver. I feel like the like, it's kind of there needs to be like a finesse to it. I think that it's less about the fact that there like has to be and it's like doing it kind of in a in a right way. First of all, I think giving more opportunity for people like me, who are neuro divergent, who are neuro or neuro diverse, however you say it, who can you know, who can do good work, might need help on other little tiny things, but like, you know, I do good work. I've been in the business for a while. And I've never gotten hired, not hired because of my disability. But I know some people who might have that issue. And I think being open enough to hire somebody who is because it's not about what they can't do. It's about what they can do. And if they're really into the Audio, you know, side of things, regardless of what that is, they'll do a really good job on it. Like they're very good. The other thing is, you know, I think there should be more. I think there can always be more stories about people in audio books or Audio Stories with people with different neuro diversion groups. And also, I, I don't mind if like, in terms of representation, I don't think it's that I would love the opportunity. And I think they should go to the opportunity. But if they end up, if I ever read it wrote a book on my life, and somebody does an audio book about me, and I'm being played by, for example, Jim Cummings. I'm okay with being played by Jim Comey. He's one of my heroes.

So what you're saying is that, specifically an audio that if if you have a neurodivergent character who is played by someone who is neurotypical, it's not? It's probably not that big of a deal, as opposed to, to you

to me? Yes, like, for example, and and any any disability, like, how are you going to, if you're gonna do a story where you're playing a character in a wheelchair? How are you going to know, like, you're not going to be able, unless you do pictures, obviously, but you're not going to really see the person behind it, I think what it really needs to be, though, is just genuineness, and often being authentic and credible, and not giving into like, certain stereotypes, like, not having the person and a lot of that also comes down to the writing. Which, which is why I think, you know, involve more people in the crew, who are neuro diverse in the creative process, if you want to represent us, you know, include us actually include us for that, we can avoid that. But in terms of the voiceover thing, I think that avoiding the stereotyping and being off, you know, being true and authentic. But, yeah, also, don't be afraid to hire. And I want to add, though, I'm not just here for playing the neurodiverse characters, as much as I love doing that, and how I've used it as an asset. You know, there are more characters I can play and stuff like that. But I think in terms of your question, yeah, it's, it's just one of those kind of it delegates a trickier thing that, you know, could still use some finesse, but I think I think including us help trying to include us more, I think we can always win, it's nice to feel included.

So how did you get into voiceover work in the first place?

Well, I it really started out with I was really good at imitating like, cartoons, and stuff, I watched a lot of cartoons as a kid. You know, played video games, watch movies, I would imitate certain voices. And around the time, I was like, 14, or 15 or 14, I, you know, just kind of thinking about what I could do with my life. And, you know, is there any after school things I can do. And we found a voiceover School in San Francisco. And I took a couple classes there. And I've been throughout my career, I've been taking classes there. Now not so much recently. But throughout my the building part of my whole career, I was taking classes there. And they've been extremely helpful. They don't just do voiceover, they do kind of other acting, they talk about the business side of things they bring over, they bring their the teachers are like professionals from the industry. So and I just love doing it. And then I think voiceover kind of came from my love of theater, which I was encouraged to do, not just by my parents, but by my my educators at the school that I went to, they encouraged me to go out and try for theater. And that not only helps, you know, show that I could do this. It helped build my confidence and people responded positively to me, which was huge. It was a huge deal to get this kind of positive response. And, you know, I'm very grateful for that. And that just kind of led because theater can be tough. There's a lot of, you know, driving around and attending rehearsals. Voiceover it's like I could do it. To my pajamas.

Yes, yes. You don't have to worry about how you look. No. You brought up school? And it's not a question I had prepped you for but you said that the educators at your school encouraged you to go into theater and in you know, fine arts Performing Arts? Did you go to a public school?

No, I went to Well, I don't know what you would call that I don't really want to name names. No, it's fine. I started going, I started with at a, I guess you can call it a Catholic school. I went to a Catholic school. And I should point out that I was diagnosed with autism when I was like 13, like 12, or 13. So it was a very late, it was not as late as some but a pretty late diagnosis. And a lot of the teachers there who were, you know, not bad people, they were nice and stuff, they just didn't really know what to do with me. And they didn't have like, you know, the, the training, like the skill and stuff to work with somebody like me. And, you know, to even the kids, the other kids didn't know what to do with me, I didn't know what to do with me. And that led to, you know, of course, that led to some bullying, and stuff. But we found a school, it was a private, but more inclusive school. That like I said, it was more more inclusive, and they could, they were more flexible and how they learned. And they were the ones who helped identify, you know, my, my autism, and they kind of worked out, you know, we all kind of worked out the classes were smaller. So we were more flexible, and how we learned and how we did projects, you know, we how we did handled the curriculum. So that was, it was far less challenging. And it made learning a lot more fun. I think I was reminded that I did a project where we did see the black plague or polio, or some kind of we were learning about different, you know, illnesses. And I did the report writing a script for an episode of, of Star Trek, where they come to earth in the past, and they discover that people have polio, and they try to, you know, cure it. So, and I performed the script in front of the, in front of the class, as my, like, you know, as the final paper, I performed it, I did all the characters and stuff. So, you know, little, little fun things like that. There were beyond just sitting at a desk and, you know, looking at books and writing, which was tough for me writing handwriting is tough for me. And yeah, the teachers were very, you know, they were very engaging, and they kind of helped me with my, you know, if I had anxiety or meltdowns or anything like that, they kind of helped gently navigate their, my way through it, they would gently kind of tell me, Jonathan, that's, that's not okay. You know, try to find something else like, okay, and normally, and usually I would, I would be accepting about that. I'm like, Okay, you're right. You know, you're right, I I'm sorry. and stuff, they would usually, like, Help me Help me through it. And because of that, I wasn't afraid to ask that to come to them. When I was feeling when I was feeling certain feelings when I was feeling frustrated, or upset, you know, it was just something I could go to them and I could work, work through it. And that, that, that didn't lead to theater to because I was kind of left out because the like, I set up the small small classes, and the kids there were either really good at sports or really good at computers, and I was really good at neither of those things. So it was like, what what am I going to do? And so they told me, they wouldn't when the idea for my family was to do community theater. They, they they push that they said yeah, do it, Jonathan, do it, do it, do it. And so I did it. And there was it was Youth Theater. So the schools got to go and they actually brought my my my entire class and all the everybody there was like, Oh, this is who he is. So I am

in You were able to do that, because it sounds like they they made a safe space for you.

Yeah, yeah, they Yeah. Yeah. They they helped me realize, you know, it was it was for everybody. The whole point of the school was, you know, to a safe place to try and you know, learn, grow, and not just academically, socially as well.

Yeah. Is there something that you feel like people misunderstand about you?

I think a lot of the times people underestimated underestimate me, maybe not so much now. But I think maybe they still do. I don't know. Like I said, I've kind of stopped putting so much putting so much into what other people think about me. Like seeing seeming, you know, the whole thing of like you, you spend your whole youth wanting to be cool. And you realize that it's be cool. It's cooler not to be cool. Not to try to be cool. Yeah, but I think people still do underestimate me. And I think there's still like, there's still that kind of, I think there's always going to be a stigma for people with challenging disabilities, because it's been ingrained in everywhere for so long, and it's getting better. But it's, it's, it's just gonna take a lot of time. And I also feel like, you know, we're not getting kind of, it's not about recognition, it's about getting a chance, we're not getting as much kind of a tension. As, as, as, as we, we need and we're also not getting kind of recognized for, not what we were more recognized for what we can't do, and what our challenges is and what we can do. And I think that's, that's kind of how I feel about about it. I think I would like that to start to, you know, I personally would like that to start to change, being more about what we can do and what we can, what we can't do. And you give us a chance.

What about your dreams for your career? Amy, it could be related to the podcast or not. But yeah, you know, well, the

podcast, I mean, what I love about the podcast is it gives me a chance to flex myself creatively. I have voiced on that podcast, over 100 characters, different characters, and continuing. And it's a great outlet. But it's also a great way for me to work with other people, and some of them who are who have different, who are neurodiverse. And the message of the podcast overall is, you know, being you know, a message of positivity of positive role models, and then it's okay to be who you are. And embrace your unique, what makes you unique, and that we, we will accept you. And that's kind of I want for me, I want there to be, you know, I want this to lead to more opportunity. I would love for it, it doesn't make it makes enough money that we could pay, like, you know, the writers and some of this, the guest stars, and our engineer, of course, gets paid, but I don't get paid for it yet. And I would like you know, hopefully one day I would like to, you know, I would like to make it you know, financially viable, as would I think we all would these kinds of things and, you know, and Lee and to lead to more opportunities. I'm actually a fan, a young fan, invited me to come next week, very soon to come speak to her school. I'm gonna be speaking to like, third and fourth graders and stuff and you know, going to talk about the podcast and maybe do some voiceover exercises and stuff like that. So leads to you know, not just industry opportunities, but you know, positive role model personal opportunities, too.

That's, that's great. And best of luck to the grandkids podcast, podcasts yourself in the staff and everything. So I'm wondering if you have any thoughts about you know, what you would like for educators? to walk away from this conversation with

Well, what do you think of that? I haven't already said, I think, yeah, I think focusing on, you know, the positive outlets, if you're like, if you have somebody who is, you know, neuro divergent, or what have you or thinks differently, you know, they're remember they have, they could have a lot to offer. And they just need a little bit more, you know, different guidance. And I think for an educated, it kind of depends on the age, but don't be like with them, like with my teachers, don't be afraid to like, let them know that you are there for them, that you are, you know, that you understand them. And it did, if they have, you know, if they, if they have any kind of problems come come to you, that they can come to you, and you can work out what in a state and like in a safe way for them? What, what can be done, to offer them guidance and to know that you were there for them. And that you know, that they can they know that you know that they they have a lot to offer. Not just you know what their challenges are?

Stay tuned for the mystery question, right after this break

what do you keep on your desk or workspace area? That boosts your mood? So I'll go first if you want. Yeah, I had to think about it. And so there's a story behind this. So do you do you know, do you know what this is?

Oh, I can't remember the name but I've seen that before.

Okay, so this is Bucky, the beaver Rhino for the audio because I have to describe this. This is a bobblehead that I'm holding up. It's a it's about four or five inches tall. And it is a beaver with a red cap and a red shirt. And it's got a Bucky the beaver logo. And so buches is a I guess famous, like gas station chain in Texas. And that's right. And commercial hasn't. Yeah, they haven't been GA They're huge. They're like, it's like walking into a Walmart. With, you know, Bucky being like the mascot, they have brisket. They have beef jerky, they have like these candied nuts, they have popcorn, they have all you know, all the regular snacks. They have tons of drinks and coffee. And it's just, it's huge. And there's tons of gas, you know, pumps or whatever. And we usually stop there and road trips. And so there's one in between Atlanta where I live in Mississippi, which is where our my brother in law is. And so, on the way back, we usually stop at buches you know, because it's in I and I get these. I get these candied pecans. Like I love pecans are delicious. And so I'm always telling my kids, I'm like, Oh, um, I want to get my Bucky swag, you know, like, wear it around. And they're, like, so embarrassed by me because they're like, Dad buches is like so like, whatever. I used to so. Exactly, exactly. So I think it was my it was around my birthday. And I look out my front door. And there was this, like, on my, on the front door, the doorstop the doormat is just sitting there. And I'm like, who, like, first of all, who knows that I like bikinis. And like, were like we were here all night. Like who put this here? You know, I started to get really freaked out. I'm like, oh my god, like, do I have a stalker is they like, what's going on? And then, and then I call my brother in law. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, he, he just they just moved from Mississippi, from Georgia to Mississippi. And he was still coming back, like take care of a few things. And so he must have dropped it off, like as a birthday present, but didn't tell me. You know, like it was just a surprise. And so I called them up and I'm like, Dude, you totally freaked me out, leaving this buches thing. I was like, I have no idea who this is from. And so now I have my but it was a long story, Jonathan I Paul No, it's okay. So I have a I have Bucky the beaver right here. It always puts me in a good mood. So

that's okay. Because I got nothing. i The beauty about voice acting is you don't work at a desk.

Well, do you have any? So I guess do you have do you collect anything? Do you have like a like a tchotchke type of things or like,

you know, I can say this, because we're doing it tonight. I've been roped in to play by and then you and enjoy doing it. Playing d&d with a group of people with a group of people. I don't have it with me because I'm not in my house. But you know, you use dice and stuff, right to get you know, you have your computer and stuff to keep track of your character sheet and all that. It's really fun to do. But he used dice. And for the first couple of games we played. I'm rolling the dice. And it's like, oh, went off the table. I hang on it when I went on the table a lot. It's like, Alright, do this critical, critical role. Oh, when under the couch, hang on, and stuff. So it's, it just went over. So one of the guys who's another podcaster and stuff I've read has been a guest on the episode and some of the episodes before. He's one of our d&d Guys. He sent me over unprompted. sent me over a, it's how I describe it. It's like a dice. It's a It's kind of like a little bowl. It's like a dice. You roll the dice and it's square shaped and it kind of folds up a little bit. It's flat, and you can roll the dice and the dice won't get all over the place. And the coolest thing about it is it's the map from of Middle Earth. From the Lord of the Rings. It's specifically the hobbit the map from that they used in The Hobbit. It's specifically that map. Now it's like all in it's like leather. It's like brown leather and stuff like this is really cool.

That is cool. That is cool. See that boosts your mood right there. There you go. It's talking about it. Yeah. Jonathan Kamara, thank you so much for being on the conclusive podcast. We appreciate your time.

Thank you very much for having me.

That chime means it's free time, and this week I want to share with you a podcast, but not just any podcast. fire breathing kittens is an actual play one shot podcast that plays various tabletop role playing games with a season long plot because there's a beginning and an end to each week story you can start at any episode. Every week has a different combination of four people from the same rotating cast. Join fire breathing kittens, as they solve detective mysteries, attempt to comedic banter, and enjoy friendship. Now, these episodes clocked in at around three hours but they are highly entertaining. And if you love role playing games, you are going to love this pod.

Okay, that's it for this week. For more information about inclusive education, or to learn how you can partner with MCIE on school transformation or professional learning opportunities. Visit MCIE.org Love think inclusive. Here are a few ways to let us know. Rate us on Spotify or leave us a review on Apple podcasts. Or you can donate to MCIE with a one time or monthly donation so that we can keep making things inclusive and our newest podcast inclusion stories. To donate, go to bi t.li/mcie e dash donate or visit MCIE.org think inclusive is written, edited, designed, mixed and mastered by me to Vegas, Original Music by miles credit additional music from melody thanks for your time and attention and remember inclusion always works.

Okay, so I'm Gonna pick a random mystery question, have you and we'll both answer it. And so far it's nothing inappropriate. It's more like, you know, sometimes they're silly sometimes they're thought provoking. So we'll see. I hope so. Yeah, really one. I hope so too. I don't want to get too serious, you know. All right, here we go. This is the question. This is not a silly one. Should I read pic? Let's read pic. Okay. MCIE