EP 279 - Amina AlTai
EEllen YinDec 27, 2024 at 8:52 pm51min
EEllen Yin
00:00You're listening to Cubicle to CEO episode 279, with the new year around the corner, it's time to rethink how we approach productivity. Could managing your energy, not your time, be the secret to unlocking major breakthroughs in your business and health? In today's case study, you'll hear how Amina AlTai leveraged her energy cycles to transform her business and health, initially driven by necessity, following a brain injury and autoimmune challenges, Amina developed a productivity framework that aligned her work schedule with her body's natural rhythms. Within a year, her income doubled from $220,000 to over 500k she also created the mental space and energy to write a book that sold within a week of being shopped out in a lucrative preempt deal with the publisher, her anti hustle approach set her apart in the market, proving that success doesn't have to come at the cost of well being. If you're looking for a sustainable way to grow your business while protecting your health, this conversation is the perfect way to kick start your year.
EEllen Yin
01:02Welcome to cubicle the CEO, the podcast where we ask successful founders and CEOs the business questions you can't google. I'm your host. Ellen Yin, every Monday, go behind the business in a case study style interview with a leading entrepreneur who shares one specific growth strategy they've tested in their own business, exactly how they implemented it, and what the results and revenue were. You'll also hear financially transparent insights from my own journey bootstrapping our media company from a $300 freelance project into millions in revenue.
EEllen Yin
01:44Hey everyone, welcome back to the show. Today I have joining me. Amina Altai, and if you're watching this on YouTube, I was just complimenting her on how beautiful and vibrant her outfit is, so go check it out if you're just listening to this on audio. Anyways, Amina, welcome to the show.
AAmina AlTai
01:59Thank you so much. It's such a drab day here in New York that I was like, I need color and vibrancy.
EEllen Yin
02:04Well, amen, I can definitely relate to that. It's dreary and cold and rain season here, where I live in Oregon, so absolutely right there with you. But today I'm really excited, because the case study we're going to be digging into with Amina is how she was able to really readjust her work schedule and how she approaches really productivity to follow the natural rhythms of her body, and that created an anti hustle schedule that not only landed a book deal, but also 2x Amina's revenue in the first year of implementation. So her revenue went from $220,000 to over 500,000 Now before we dig into the details of this case study, Amina, I have to hear your cubicle the CEO story. What was the catalyst that led you to entrepreneurship?
AAmina AlTai
02:50Yes, I love that. So, like a lot of people, so I started my career in corporate America and actually worked at Cartier, and it was this amazing experience, and I had a wonderful time and but I got to work on their women's initiative Awards, which is this contest that provides funding and support to female entrepreneurs. And I was just so enlivened by this, I thought, okay, like I want to start my own company where I get to work with emerging female entrepreneurs all the time. So I co founded a marketing agency that I with a friend that I'd gone to school with, and the idea was, on one side to be this hybrid agency, where we were taking sweat equity, working with these female founders, and the other side was traditional agency.
AAmina AlTai
03:31And I did that for seven years, and I call it my MBA, but I didn't have like I was, I was very young and, like, full of hubris, and like, you know very much that, like girl, boss, hard working millennial, and I had a lot of lessons to learn, and I had no boundaries, and was deeply co dependent, and I ended up burning out and developing two autoimmune diseases. And it was very dramatic, where I got this call from my doctor, and she was like, if you don't go to the hospital now, instead of going to work your days away from multiple organ failure, wow.
AAmina AlTai
04:01So so I had to kind of change my life. And so then I went back to corporate after that, because I was like, I need the good insurance. I got to get my life together. And and was kind of on this, like, emotional, Eat, Pray, Love, year where I was just studying, coaching, mindfulness, nutrition, like all the things to feel better my own life. And after a couple of years back in corporate I felt so good. I was like, oh, I want to teach this onward. So it was after that that I put together my curriculum that touches on mindset, well being and career coaching, and then eventually launched that business. So it was a bit of a bounce between corporate America entrepreneurship, back to corporate America, back to entrepreneurship, precipitated by a lot of things happening in my body.
EEllen Yin
04:02Well, what a wake up call. I mean, there's probably nothing scarier than getting that diagnosis, like you're literally days away from organ failure. I don't know if in the moment you actually felt that in your body that you were that close to such a catastrophic health event.
AAmina AlTai
04:53I didn't It's so funny when I retell it's not funny at all, actually, but when I retell the story, I'm like, you all. This is how disconnected I was at the time, even though my doctor told me that I still went to work, and then it kind of took that whole day, and then I was like, huh, maybe I shouldn't be here. And at the end of the day, I got my act together and, like, went to see the doctor. But that's how disassociated I was at the time, just to kind of get through the day and to survive.
SSpeaker 1
05:17know, it's
EEllen Yin
05:17You know, it's really interesting the timing of our conversation, Amina, because last night, I was on threads, and I'm definitely a threads Lurker, like I love reading I love reading threads. I don't really create content on threads. Maybe that'll change in 2025 but I was reading this one thread, and I can't remember who wrote it, to credit them, but they were saying something about how they've observed that parentified children, particularly eldest daughters, tend to, later in life, develop autoimmune disorders. And I don't know if you are an only child or if you're an older sibling, or if you fit into that mold at all, but I just find it so interesting how there's definitely, obviously this underlying link between stress and autoimmune conditions. And so anyways, we'll dig into a little bit more, as comfortable as you want to get in our case study.
EEllen Yin
06:05But for the purposes of our listeners today, the business that you have now, since you know, going through that back and forth swing of entrepreneurship, corporate back to entrepreneurship, you now coach purpose driven professionals, and you have an upcoming book that's launching in May 2025 as well. Am I allowed to say the title? Or is that a secret right now?
AAmina AlTai
06:25No, you are. It's officially in pre order, so we're allowed to say all the things.
EEllen Yin
06:29Okay, exciting. So it's the ambition trap, and I myself am very excited to pre order and read for exactly all the reasons that you just shared, right? Like, it's so easy to get caught up, and I've actually never heard a guest coin it as like hubris, but that's, I think that's exactly the right word. It's this, this belief that we're invincible, that we can just run a million miles a minute and never suffer the consequences of those choices. So love that you phrased it that way.
EEllen Yin
06:54Let's set the stage for our listeners today on this conversation on bodily energy and and how, of course, you You changed your entire work schedule around this sobodily energy to increase productivity. How do you, in case of listeners, like, what does that really mean? Like, how do you measure or define, let's say, bodily energy? And prior to paying attention to it, did you actually feel unproductive in your life? And that's what kind of spurred you to go, Oh, I'm gonna do this to make myself more productive. Or was it just again, a reckoning from, you know, your health scare?
AAmina AlTai
07:28Yeah, absolutely a reckoning from my health scare, because I never felt unproductive. I think, if anything, I was, you know, a very productive person. And really deriving my sense of self and my self worth from my productivity. But anytime I am out of integrity, I get called out through my body, like consistently. It's happened throughout my career. So part of what invited me to create this methodology that we're talking about today is a couple of years into my business, I actually I had toxic mold exposure, and I got really sick from it, and I had like zero energy, and was like so lethargic. I had all all these symptoms that seem really separate and disparate, but actually, eventually we found out we're really connected.
AAmina AlTai
08:08And so I found myself all of a sudden with very little energy, and as somebody that really derived their sense of self and their worthiness from their doing, there was a bit of an existential crisis there. So I was sitting with this question of, how do I keep the business going while I have so much less energy than I'm used to? And so, you know, I'm a big fan of Elisa vidy's work around the infradian rhythm. So those of us that have a menstrual cycle that's an infrared and rhythm. It's a 28 to 36 day cycle whereby our hormones are different every day. And this sparked something for me, not only are our hormones different every day, but those of us that have chronic illness or disability, we're also different every day.
AAmina AlTai
08:48And the thing is, is like people might be listening and be like, Well, I don't have chronic illness or disability. Most of us will, if we live long enough, and we're seeing so many more people actually are disabled or have chronic illness as a result of the pandemic too. So, and by the way, chronic illness is defined as any set of symptoms that we have that last longer than six months. So menopause technically chronic illness, right? We're dealing with, you know, there's so many things that actually could be classified as chronic illness. So basically, this was the impetus for me to think about, how can we design our work differently?
AAmina AlTai
09:20And so I sat down to design something that could support me in that moment to get through the week and the month. And so I started to think about, well, when's my brain best? When do I have the most energy? What kind of environment do I feel really good in? And that started to shape the framework
EEllen Yin
09:35Interesting. So as you were like, becoming more aware of these concepts, right, and how they impact your body and your energy levels, which, by the way, I'm someone who is very my brain is always alive, like always, you know, rapid firing, but I consider myself, there's that meme that's like, I'm not an early bird and not a late night owl. I'm a permanently exhausted pigeon or something. And I was like, Oh man, I feel so seen by that. That is me to the core, like kind of a low energy person. But how did you actually gain a better understanding of your body beyond beyond? Just like, being aware that, okay, your body fluctuates day to day, and hormones and all these other things that impact you. But like, how did you really start to recognize specifics about how this impacts you.
AAmina AlTai
10:22Yeah, as a coach, I'm a firm believer that we all have our own answers. So I started by asking myself a series of questions of, well, when am I the most energized? And for me, it was actually quite obvious. I was like, Okay, I am definitely not a night person like I have so many friends that can, like, be working until 12, one o'clock, and they have these, like, brilliant, creative ideas, literally, okay, bless you. I wish I were like that, but like, eight o'clock rolls around and I'm, like, my eyes are watering, like I'm literally melting down as a human. So like, that part was very obvious. Like, not a night person, not particularly a very early morning person, either. Kind of that, like, 10 to 2pm that's like, really, where I thrive, yeah.
AAmina AlTai
10:57So I started to notice that. I also noticed that my brain was sharper at the beginning of the week because I was experiencing so much fatigue that by the end, like I didn't have that much energy and capacity. So then I started front loading my weeks, especially when I was working on the book. So like Monday, Tuesdays, I'd work on the book early in the day. I'd stop around four, and then Wednesday, Thursday were my coaching days, because that's my zone of genius, so it uses a lot less energy, so I could slot it into those days. And then Friday is kind of my spillover day, because I don't have that much energy by Friday, my brain's a little duller. And so just starting to notice those trends, and then noticing the trends, not only in the week, but in the months too.
AAmina AlTai
11:33So as I'm in my luteal phase, nearing my menstrual cycle, then I tend to slow down, be a bit more sluggish. So things that I could control, not slating those high energy tasks in that time, so like a Keynote or something like that, if I had a bit of control over it, making sure that it happens in the earlier part of my cycle, things of that nature. But I just started by noticing patterns and asking myself some really basic questions.
EEllen Yin
11:56Okay, I want to get into this question asking process, because there's a lot of great information you provided to me ahead of our interview. So I'm gonna get into the specifics of each of these things. You've already kind of referenced a few of these questions. But a quick plug for our listeners, if you're listening to this episode with Amina and you're really intrigued by this idea of syncing menstrual cycles with work, we actually did a full debrief breakdown of that particular topic with a previous guest, Kate Northrup. We'll link that episode below in the show notes if you want to listen to that. I'm sure Amina will also touch on some of those pieces in her case study. But just in case you want, like, a full disagulation, that's probably the best episode to go to, because we won't have all the time for that in this particular one. But anyways, that's in the show notes for your reference if you need it.
EEllen Yin
12:38But let's get to these questions. So Amina, you already kind of referenced like you asked yourself, when do I feel most energized? What type of work do I like doing that comes easier versus more difficult to me. But you also asked questions around, when do you need alone time and when do you prefer to collaborate? So walk us through a little bit of what you discovered there.
AAmina AlTai
12:59Yeah. So with alone time. What I realized is that, like, especially when I'm doing deep thinking work, I personally need alone time, and I need deep quiet. So that's not the time that I'm going to go to the co working space to be around energy. Then there's times that I'm, like, planning something that is collaborative, and that's going to be bringing a lot of people and different types of energy together, and then I want to be in other people's energy, because it helps lift the energy of that idea too. So and I'm like, oh, I want to be around like all these amazing lady leaders and see what their ideas are, and I want to collaborate. And so, yeah, just simply asking myself those questions has helped me really pinpoint when I need to be in those spaces, when I need to retreat.
AAmina AlTai
13:36But also, over the course of the last couple of years, I've started to do more nervous system work, which I love Kate Northrup for so many reasons. She also talks about nervous system work as well awesome and nervous system work has also shifted my relationship to energy and designing the work week too, because there are times where you have to be collaborative and you don't have a choice about it, right? Like, especially like as entrepreneurs, there's a lot of things that we can control and there's a lot of things that we can't and so then can we regulate our nervous system in those spaces so that there's it's less energy expensive? Because that's another thing that was happening for me. Of you have to go about your business, right? You can't always control the schedule, so when you're in, when you need alone time, but you're in a collaborative space, can you regulate so it's less expensive on the body?
EEllen Yin
14:20That's a really great point. And I like again, that term that you're using less energy expensive. What is a go to way you have found to regulate your nervous system when, like you just mentioned, you're in one of those situations where you're kind of forced to be collaborative when you would actually prefer alone time.
AAmina AlTai
14:35Yes. So one of my coaches, she's a nervous system coach. She's actually in your neck of the woods. Her name is Amy Bonaduce Gardner. She's in Portland. She's amazing. So she taught me this method called mapping, and it's simply bringing awareness to two points in your body, because there's certain parts of our bodies that are black and white indicators of fight or flight, and then certain are specific to us, and they're not necessarily black and white indicators. But for example, our tongue is a black and white indicator here.
AAmina AlTai
15:00So if it is pointing upward at the top of our mouth, that's an indication of rest and digest. If it's at the bottom, more in the middle, that's an indication of fight or flight. And so if we just simply bring awareness to the tip of our tongue and the bottom of our chin, kind of bouncing between those two points for two minutes, we will start to notice a shift, and we will start to come more into that rest and digest place simply by bringing awareness, not trying to control something, because that's a little bit tricky in terms of energy. And so that's a really simple tool that you can do anytime, anywhere, which is my favorite. I do it even when I'm coaching with people.
EEllen Yin
15:32Wow, that's so fascinating, actually. As you were saying that I was like, noticing where is my tongue right now as we were talking, and I think it was actually touching the roof of my mouth so I am relaxed for this conversation, which is good. That's really helpful, though. Thank you for sharing that tip on the point of you identifying when you need to be alone versus collaborative is that something that you kind of literally decide day to day as you're waking up and just kind of assessing your energy for that day, or if you are actually planning out a week based on, like, okay, Monday, Tuesday, I need to be alone, but Wednesday, Thursday, I'm gonna be with people. How do you accurately predict that if our energy levels fluctuate so much day to day, and also, of course, are impacted by, you know, external circumstances happening around us?
EEllen Yin
16:19I think
AAmina AlTai
16:19Yes, I think that's a great question. And in my experience, it's more art than science. I don't know that it's like, we'll ever get it super perfect and precise, and I think part of our job is to be agile in that while accommodating our needs. But so, for example, I had a week a couple of weeks ago where I had several people's book events and book launches, and was out like, four nights in a row, and I was like, Okay, great. That means that Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I really would love alone time to regulate, to catch up on things, to restore my energy, to do the things that I need to do. And so it won't always be a perfect science. Of like, it's my luteal phase. I can only see people one day a week.
AAmina AlTai
16:53We have to be agile with what's happening in the world around us, but I think checking in ahead of time, looking at our calendars and seeing what's coming down the pike, and how can we support our bodies inside of that?
EEllen Yin
17:03Okay, that makes a lot of sense. And earlier you you referenced that on the days where you are more collaborative, sometimes you like being in a co working space around other you know, women and leaders is the co working space a membership that you actually already had like before you ever did this work. Or was that an intentional new environment that you placed yourself in after you started to notice, hey, I like to be collaborative certain days of the week, and I'm gonna actually create a space where I intentionally am around people during that time.
EEllen Yin
17:33That's
AAmina AlTai
17:33That's a great question. I think that it shifted seasonally for me. So when I first started my business, in the very beginning, that first year, I spent besides coaching time, I spent a lot of time alone. And then I recognized I was like, I'm getting weird, like I'm literally, like, waiting for the pigeon to arrive on the windowsill, like it's time for me to, like, get some friends. And so then I actively sought out a co working space. And it was game changing. It was just so wonderful to be in that energy one or two days a week, to go to events, to meet people, to network, all the things. And then when I was writing the book, a very similar thing happened, where I'd kind of cut back on collaboration and external engagements and things like that. And I noticed I was like, I need to be around humans, like, this is too much alone time. So then went back to that idea. So I definitely cycled through depending on the season.
EEllen Yin
18:18Okay, I love that. And as a former co working space owner, albeit a very boutique one, here in Oregon, I actually started that space for that exact reason, just like wanting to be in community with others and have made some great, you know, lifelong friends from that, that adventure. But for our listeners, the takeaway I want to pull away, for all of you listening in is, if you've never really considered your physical environment that you actually work in, and you've kind of just gotten in this just gotten in this routine of being in your home office, or maybe you have a rented office space. Maybe think through, are there other environments that you could intentionally place yourself in that are better suited towards certain types of work, or certain types of energy levels that you have at different points in the week? So that's my little homework for from Amina to you. I love that also.
AAmina AlTai
19:01Are you a fan of human design?
EEllen Yin
19:03I am, but I Okay, so I know so, so little. I know I'm a manifesting generator, and I know my lines are three and five, and I have kind of a general sense of understanding of that. But other than that, I I'm totally a newbie.
AAmina AlTai
19:16Okay, great. So for those listening that don't know about human design, it's a body of work somewhat similar to astrology. It essentially gives us like what we're called to do in this lifetime, and it gives us all these kind of bread crumbs and a bit of a road map for our purpose and our energy and all the things. And I really love human design. I often send my clients for a reading because it has implications for how we do our work and how much energy we have, and all of those things. So I think it's really fun to look at, but also inside of human design, they tell us our optimal environments. And so my optimal environment is a market which is where a place where businesses, ideas, different things, come together. And that makes so much sense, because that's essentially a co working space. And so I think that's a really fun thing to look at as well, if people want an external perspective on their environment.
EEllen Yin
20:02Ooh, that's a great add on tip. Actually, that term market. The first time I heard it was last week when I had, ironically, a coffee date with one of my friends who I met through the co working space that I opened. And she was literally talking about how she recently just discovered this, and was like trying to explain it to me. So two times in one week, it's, I think that's a prompt for me to go look at what I am. Yeah, totally, totally. That's awesome.
EEllen Yin
20:25So then we've Okay. We've talked about like, being in in an environment, either with people or without people. Let's talk about some of those more like, introspective parts that you're also considering, like, when you do your best thinking, when you're most creative, where do you find you get your best ideas, and was there any sort of process of testing that allowed you to arrive at that conclusion?
AAmina AlTai
20:48Yes, and I think that sort of connects to the case study. So when I started designing my work weeks like this, it sort of became like a virtuous circle where I had more time, and when I had more time, I had more time to kind of think and wonder, like I had space, which I had never really had before. And in the space came the creative thinking for me came, like the insights and the messages and the ahas. And there's actually science around this even, and I, at one point, was doing this for my team, like even giving people one hour a week to sit and do nothing, the creative juices start to flow, the insights start to flow. We access that creative brain in a bigger way.
AAmina AlTai
21:24And that's something that really happened and opened up for me. And it's funny, because I once did this workshop that was around tapping into your creativity, and I almost had an existential crisis when I went into the workshop, because I was like, I'm not a creative person, like, what is this? And what I realized is that any of us can be creative, right? It's simply creation energy. But for me, I hadn't allowed the space for creation energy. So in designing around my energy and my body, I finally had the space for creative energy.
AAmina AlTai
21:50I can't wait to see what comes out of that. Literally, time, I mean, it's such a privilege and not afforded to everybody. But if we can carve out that time because we're maximizing our energy in other spaces, I think what comes back is pretty magical.
EEllen Yin
22:41Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'll keep you informed, I guess, on the experiment. There you Amina, but also you guys at large listening to this podcast. So these are some of the things you're thinking through on a weekly basis. But if we kind of zoom out a little bit and we're looking more on a monthly basis, or even even, you know, further expanded beyond that pace is like a very interesting thing to consider. How do you determine when you need to slow down, versus the opposite, when you realize I actually can and should speed up?
AAmina AlTai
23:14Yeah. So a lot of that is informed by my cycle. So the first part of my cycle, I tend to have a lot more energy, I tend to think a lot more clearly. Everything is just spinning a lot faster. And so in those moments, like, I can really maximize like, that's when I could probably bang out a program in two days, right? It's the and it's pretty magical when we actually allow ourselves to flow with the energy, versus being like, Okay, I've got to do 30 minutes every day or whatever is true to you, you'll see what you can create, and what you can come up with is just bigger, faster, juicier, because you're leveraging your energy. So the first half of the month, generally, I am a bit faster. My pace is faster when it can produce bigger, all of those things, and then I tend to taper off. And it's sort of a natural especially now, like, I just hit 42 so there's like this.
AAmina AlTai
24:00There's a day where I'm like, Okay, I noticed like, we're more tired today, you know, if normally I'm, you know, starting to wind down by seven eight, like, by six o'clock, I'm feeling like that tug of time to take a break. Maybe you sit under your weighted blanket. So the body is giving us signals all the time. And so I've now become so accustomed to paying attention to those signals, which for a very long time I couldn't hear them at all, right?
EEllen Yin
24:23And could you give me an example of of a time where you actually sped up, where you realized you were moving too slow?
AAmina AlTai
24:30Yeah? So I don't know that I realized I was moving too slow, but so last year, I launched this program called authenticity pays. It's an accelerator, and so I wanted to do a free week of coaching leading into the accelerator as lead gen. And so I did this free week of coaching, and I sat down, it was, like, literally, the first two weeks of my cycle. And it was fantastic, the content that I prepared in that week. I was like, this is game changing. I'm like, Who is this woman? Like, she's so smart, she's so fast. Like, literally, it just kind of flowed out of me.
EEllen Yin
21:24I really resonate with what you're saying, because right now, I'm actually kind of going through a little shift internally in our own business where I'm intentionally making some changes structurally, both within our team and within like the company at large, in terms of what we're going to be offering and whatnot in the first six months of 2025 to create that white space, if you will, to just succeed for you, I'm super excited, because I think I just love to sit and think and be with my thoughts. I know some people find their thoughts scary. I actually really like to just be with my thoughts and so very much looking forward to what comes out of that. So I very much resonate with what you're sharing out there.
AAmina AlTai
24:59Yeah, and then it was interesting, because this year, so this was last year, so this year I wanted to add in a module of content. And I wasn't paying attention to my energy. I was in the second half of my cycle, and it was so laborious to add in another module. I was like, You know what? I'll just wait. I'll just wait, because in a couple weeks, it'll just flow out of me. But right now, it was like pushing a boulder up a hill. It was so funny.
EEllen Yin
25:20I mean, it is fascinating, like because you're obviously the same person, the same human in both in both cases, but it is just absolutely astonishing sometimes, how different we can show up to a certain task, just like you said, depending on our energetic capacity. Just for our listeners who maybe haven't tuned into the Kate Northrop episode I referenced yet, or are again, new to this concept of like, cycles syncing with, you know, your work schedule.
EEllen Yin
25:48When you say first part of cycle versus the second half of your cycle is the first half of your cycle, are you referring to, like, the period of time before you actually have your period or, like, what is that referring to,
AAmina AlTai
26:00yes, so follicular phase, and then second half is luteal. And, you know, so we're talking a lot about cycle, but the reason that I bring in, like, look at your day, look at your week, is that some people feel consistent throughout their cycle, right? It's really different for everybody. I have one client who's a CEO, and she feels really different day to day, but not so much over the course of the month, not so much based on the menstrual cycle. But one example is, you know, by the end of the day, her brain's pretty done. And she was telling me one day, she was like, it took me two hours to write an email, and I was like, stop, just like, try again tomorrow morning. And she's like, you're right. Literally, I got up the next day and it was five minutes. And so just noticing your own flow, your own rhythm, because you might be like, actually, the menstrual cycle doesn't have that big of an impact on me week to week, and I'm totally fine, right?
EEllen Yin
26:46No, that's that's an excellent point there. Do you find yourself distinguishing between pace and intensity at all, or are they more or less the same to you in terms of what you've already described so far? It's funny, like, I have a visual around pace and intensity. Pace is, like, wide, intensity is deep. And so, like, I'm thinking about, like, when I think about my pace, like, how fast am I going, and, you know, when do I need to, like, bounce forward and pick up speed. And when I think about in intensity, it's like deepening in that as well. If that makes any sense, I like the visual the you know, wide versus deep. But it might help if you had a specific example tied to that, like something that you change the pace of, and then something you change the intensity of, Does anything come to mind for you?
AAmina AlTai
27:35Well, okay, so how I partly, how I got on the court with this framework too, was in the pandemic, working with a lot of clients around, like, the pandemic is an endurance race, and sort of using the metaphor of a marathon with a lot of people, and that particular marathon asked us to keep the pace right, like every day, put one one foot in front of the other, and, like, some consistency to that pace. And then there, I think that there were moments of emotional intensity, and we were still asked to move forward and to keep the pace.
AAmina AlTai
28:03And so I feel like that's a great example, because it's like you're still putting one foot in front of the other, and then there are these emotional moments that add weight, almost like you're wearing a weighted vest as you continue to keep the pace. And that, to me, like always felt like a really interesting example.
EEllen Yin
28:16No, that's a really great analogy. And kind of like you said, being cognizant of what are those influential factors that could make something feel more challenging or less challenging and to just have awareness around that? Speaking of which we've talked about physical environment, I think the last layer of just kind of setting this general context up for our listeners around you know how you're looking at energy levels in planning and designing your work week is the energetic environment. So with that, how does that to you differ than a physical environment? And how do you approach your energetic environment on great days versus on your most challenging days?
AAmina AlTai
28:55Yeah, so I'm, you know, on the spectrum, like probably a little bit more spiritual in woo, woo. And so I like to bring in those practices, depending on what people are like, open for too. Like my clients are all on a spectrum as well. And so for me, there's the physical environment, right? That's the actual physical space, the four walls, the windows, how much light's in the space, how ventilated it is, right? Thinking about those things. Then there's the energy of the space, right? Who has been in the space, and what energy have they picked up and left behind? Like, what's happened in the space before, and what energy has been picked up and left behind?
AAmina AlTai
29:27And I'll give you all a great example. So I work from home most of the time, and I got divorced over the last year, and when I got divorced, I was like, You know what? I'm the only energy in this space. Now I want to reevaluate the energy of the space. And so I worked with a healer to cut cords, which is a process of basically reorganizing the energy of a space, because the energetic environment was shifting, and I wanted to make sure that the space reflected that as well. And so it might sound a little Woo, woo, but I often think of our space and our home and our workplaces as like the root Chakra, that's like the grounding. And if the energy of the space doesn't feel right, then I think it has an impact on our work.
AAmina AlTai
30:08I also had the opportunity to work with somebody a couple of years ago who was a Space Designer that also leveraged feng shui, and so that also has energetic implications for our work, too. And so I think that's a super interesting technology to bring in as well.
EEllen Yin
30:24So I'm curious. I'm not super familiar with Feng Shui, although I've met, you know, many amazing people in our community who are experts in that. What is one like, one shift in in your environment that working with the feng shui expert that you decided to do as a result of that? Can you? Can you share a specific example?
AAmina AlTai
30:42Oh, yes, so many fun ones. So one thing that they said to me, so feng shui is based on a map called the bagua. So the bagua is like this map that you lay over your home, and certain corners or of the map correspond to different areas of your home in different areas of your life. So one corner is about money, one corner is about health, one corner is about relationship, etc. So you layer that over your house, and then you make certain choices. But one thing that she said for me, she was like, as somebody that has autoimmune disease, it's really important that you move the energy of your closets and your garbage. So she's like, anything that has a tendency to, like, collect and stack up. She's like, you have to move out quickly. So she's like, always clean your closets, take your garbage out every day. And I was like, Oh, that's so interesting.
AAmina AlTai
31:21She also told me about where I put my desk. So she was like, desk. Like, creative energy, work energy, the energy around it needs to really flow. So I was had my desk up against a wall, and she was like, No, the energy needs to move around it, take it away from the wall and, like, give it some more space around the perimeter. What else would she tell me? Oh, also, so my front door, it doesn't face a back door, which is a big no no in Feng Shui, but it faces these big windows. And so she was like, you want something in the space to dance with the energy? So the good energy doesn't come in the front door and then bounce out the back windows. So she's like, either get, like, a big, beautiful chandelier, or, like, I actually got a marble coffee table so the energy can it like anchors the room, and the energy can kind of dance around it, versus going right out the window.
EEllen Yin
32:06That sounds so beautiful. I love the way you phrase that the energy dancing like I literally see that in my mind. Thank you. That's actually very, very helpful. It's kind of got me thinking, I'm recording this right now on, you know, my desk is positioned in the middle of this room, so there's like, plenty of space behind it and or in front of me and behind me. And so now I'm kind of thinking, huh? I wonder if that is playing any sort of role. And to your point, I know obviously our listeners kind of fall also on a diverse spectrum in terms of their spirituality and faith. And I know for a long time for myself, I always was very skeptical of any sort of like, what people would consider woo, woo things.
EEllen Yin
32:44But the more I could understand the science behind some of these concepts, especially like the idea that, you know, we're all made up of atoms and atoms of energy, right? So, like the scientific pieces of it, I think help my more logical mind wrap around it. So I love the specific examples. Very, very helpful.
EEllen Yin
33:02So I feel like now our listeners have this kind of like overarching context for how you worked through all these different questions in the process to really design your work week around these, these principles of honoring your bodily energy, you kind of already gave us a little bit of a preview of like, what your average week in your life looks like? Are there any other details you want to fill in the gaps for us on in terms of, like, your average work week design now that you've really practiced these concepts for a long time,
EEllen Yin
33:30I
AAmina AlTai
33:30I think it's really important that we tell the people that we're collaborating with how we work optimally. So one of the things I do with my clients is I have them make a how to work with me, document and did they share with their teams and the how to work with me, document also contained their energy flows, right? So I'm not somebody that will answer emails late in the night or on the weekend, and so schedule send for me, or I'm a direct communicator, but if you find that I'm being, you know, less direct, maybe I'm in a stress response. So I think it's really helpful to put together these documents like these, how to guides for people, because as we're understanding ourselves, we can help other people understand us too, so that we can just collaborate much more harmoniously.
AAmina AlTai
34:09And so I think that's really fun and but once you're thinking about how how people can work with you, you're starting to ask yourself those questions of like, you know, when do I want to give feedback, and when do I collaborate? And when do I want to live alone? So you're starting to unfold inside of that as well.
EEllen Yin
34:23Yes, it's so timely to you saying this because I was actually just chatting with my husband the other day about, you know, we've been in the season of life where we've just been really wrapped up in a custom build. We just built a duplex, we sold our house, we moved like all these things. And I was realizing over the course of many of these projects that, even though I've, you know, communicated, like certain boundaries isn't the right word, but guidelines, right? Like you said, of communication within my business, I never really thought to translate it to my personal life projects. But now that I've been through this experience, I was telling him how in the future, when I'm hiring someone, even for like, a personal task, one of the top things I want to be sure of is like, how do you best communicate?
EEllen Yin
35:04Like, are you an over because I'm an over communicator, like, I would rather be told too many things than kind of be left to wonder for myself. But not everyone is that way, and so just kind of realizing that about myself and I like to really be kept in the loop because I'm such a detail oriented person was just an interesting discovery. So I feel like the timing of what you just shared, there is a great takeaway for all of our listeners, and a great resource just to have on hand for life purposes too.
AAmina AlTai
35:32Yes, I actually had a friend who used the how to work with me document and gave it to someone she was dating. And I was like, Oh, that's really interesting. Because, I mean, it has communication guidelines in there. It has boundaries. Why not?
EEllen Yin
35:42Why not? Exactly? I mean, hey, they're probably gonna have less conflict over the course of their relationship because of that. That's so awesome. What about if we're looking on a way more zoomed out scale, like a quarterly or yearly, or even longer, are there any sort of patterns that you've developed as it relates to honoring your bodily energy? What inspired this question was, I was thinking about what I had read one time about Bill Gates. He like builds in this, like, two week retreat every year where he, like, goes away and all he does is read books for two years, and not two years, two weeks. And I was like, Oh, that's so interesting. That's such an interesting practice. I'm just curious, is there anything like that that you've implemented on a quarterly or yearly basis based on, you know, honoring your body's energy.
AAmina AlTai
36:25Yes, so I actually have this formula, and it's connected to pricing and our offering as well, but based on, like, what we're pricing, how many weeks we want to take off, all of those things. How are we designing our year? So I want to, and I've done this based on my pricing and the services that I'm offering. Take off six weeks per year. And so then where am I? How am I putting those six weeks in my calendar? And I usually advise my clients to put those six weeks a year ahead of time, just so they're locked and loaded. And like, we have no excuses or D on there.
AAmina AlTai
36:54And then, in those six weeks, what do we want to be achieving based on our dreams and our goals? So, you know, is a dream to be swimming in the Mediterranean once a year. Great, when, which one of the six weeks are we going to be doing that? Is a dream to be thinking about giving ourselves time to think so we can dream up that next project. Great, when are we going to do that? And so using the calendar, it is so our friend to bring structure and rigor to our life goals and dreams and that being part of the planning process as well.
SSpeaker 1
37:24Do
EEllen Yin
37:24Do you personally pack your six weeks together, like back to back, in one big lump sum, or do you spread them out throughout the year?
AAmina AlTai
37:32I spread them out. So what I notice about myself is I am not an endurance runner. So you know, a few minutes ago, I used that example of like the pandemic being this endurance race, I'm not an endurance runner. I'm a sprinter. And so in my sprinting metaphor, I'm somebody that's really good at working intensely for a couple of weeks, and then I need to retreat and take a break, work intensely for a couple of weeks, retreat and take a break. And so I need time off once a quarter, really, to kind of honor that. And so that's what I've built for myself.
AAmina AlTai
37:58But great questions for people to ask themselves too. Are you more in the sprinting energy? Are you more in the endurance energy? And then, based on that, where would you put your time off, and when you build in this time off, do you always find for yourself, personally, that you are matching your time off with time away from your normal routines in your home? Or are you someone that actually gets a lot of rest in taking time off at home, it's more for me, time away. So kind of going back to that space for creativity, wonder is such a big and important tool for all of us.
AAmina AlTai
38:29So experiencing new spaces and cultures actually is really good for the nervous system. So anything new, anything novel, requires us to be more present. And so there's, there's all these amazing impacts of being in new spaces and having novel experiences. So as much as I can, I try to have novel experiences, but I also need time at home, you know, take care of my plants and make sure everything is taken care of, and all of those things. So it's more time away for me, but I do have the occasional week at home, the occasional staycation.
SSpeaker 1
38:55Love
EEllen Yin
38:55Love a good staycation. Also glad you brought that up this idea of novel concepts, because I remember years ago learning that if you feel like time passes you by, which is definitely a common recurrence for me, where I'm like, Oh my gosh, this day went by so quickly. A mentor of mine said, if you want time to stretch time to feel like you have more time in the world, she said exactly that, go and create novel experiences or just like, switch up your environment, because it forces your brain to slow down and pay attention, rather than being on automation, and that makes time feel more expansive, even if you didn't actually increase the amount of time available in the day. So I yeah, I love, I love that reminder for your book.
EEllen Yin
39:39How did all of these concepts, and you know, the change in how you designed your work week? How did the book come out as a result of this?
AAmina AlTai
39:49So, as a result of this, I had a lot of spaciousness in the calendar. And as someone who historically had derived their sense of worth and self from work. It was a little trippy, like, is this space, okay? And it took, it was a novel experience for me, for sure, and it took me time to adjust to it. But then after that, I was like, Okay, I'm flowing. I'm getting more creative. I'm thinking about new, new programs and things like that. And then I happened to be sitting with a client, taking her through a framework, and she was like, where's your book? Do you have a book? And I was like, you know, it's funny. You should ask, I don't. And then she was, like, a dear friend of mine just became an agent, like, I just feel like I need to put the two of you together. And then she put the two of us together. We just really hit it off. She really understood me in my work and saw me fully. And then, because I had time, we took the next four months to work on a proposal together.
AAmina AlTai
40:37But if I was like, running and gunning at 1,000% and had no time or space in the calendar. One, I wouldn't have been able to think creatively. Two, I wouldn't have had the days in the week or the hours in the week to actually put the proposal together. And so it made space for something that I'd always wanted.
EEllen Yin
40:53That's incredible. And what's even more impressive, I think, is, I mean, you spent months working on this proposal, but then when you actually put it to market. Your book sold within a week, and it was bought. This is, this is something new. I learned from your pre interview information. You submitted. It was bought in preempt. This is a new term to me, because I'm obviously not from the publishing world. Can you explain to our listeners what a preempt is and what you feel differentiated your book so much that it was in that high of demand when when it came time for publishers to be able to bid on it,
EEllen Yin
41:26on it,
AAmina AlTai
41:26yeah, thank you. So a preempt is when publishers are really excited about the work, so they offer you a really high amount to make sure that you don't take the book to other publishers, and then there's a bidding war. So a lot of times, what happens is you take your book to market with your agent, and then you meet with different publishers. Maybe you get one offer, if you're lucky, maybe you get a couple offers. If you get a couple offers, there can be a bidding war where they're trying to outbid each other in order to get the work if they like it enough. But they liked my work so much, they were like, Please don't take it to other publishers. We want to give you enough so you'll let us have it. And I really loved my publishing house too, so I was, like, super happy to make that happen.
AAmina AlTai
42:04Also, it was like more than I ever thought that I would get for the book too. So it was this very special moment and a big deal for me as a first time author as well. And I think what really led to that was, like the creativity because, and I've experienced this in my life, when I'm working from that space of burnout or not having much energy, it's like I'm dialing it in, sure, like maybe I'm doing a decent job. And from the outside, maybe people wouldn't realize but I'm not thinking of like the spectacular, the next level, the depth, the nuance, having the time and having the energy and having the creative brain allowed me to, I think, serve up a level of nuance that they hadn't seen. And so they were very excited about that. And I think that that, I honestly think that made the difference
EEllen Yin
42:47Absolutely. And to further, like, clarify that what, what is the nuance that you think they they saw?
AAmina AlTai
42:54Yeah, so my book is about ambition. It's called the ambition trap. And so ambition, for a lot of people, is a dirty word, depending on your intersectionality. So men are told to take up space, and when they're ambitious, they're seen as powerful and strong. When women speak truth to power and are standing in their ambition, they're often seen as the B word or aggressive. And so we have all these rules about who gets to be ambitious and who doesn't get to be ambitious at the same time. I think a lot of what we understand about ambition is misleading.
AAmina AlTai
43:24Ambition, in my opinion, is neutral and natural, that every living thing on the planet has ambition because it's simply a desire to unfold. So like grass has ambition, like a cheetah has ambition because you just want to unfold. And humans, we're the only ones that actually have a choice in how we direct that energy, but a lot of us direct that energy from a place of pain. So a lot of us are, and this was me. This is why I wrote the book on ambition. We write the book that we need. So we're chasing our bigness from a core wound, like rejection or abandonment. And so, you know, for my wound was rejection, and so I felt like, okay, like, you know, people rejected me. So like, I'm gonna take up all this space, and I'm gonna get all these awards, and I'm gonna get to the top of the top of the career ladder, and that's where my ambition was coming from. But that's a very wobbly place to source our ambition from.
AAmina AlTai
44:08So in the book, I invite you to instead coming to come from a place of purposeful ambition, which is where we heal the core wounds, and we allow that place to come from an organic in sourced place, versus the external measures. And so no one was talking about ambition in that way. And I think I was able to dig into it in that way because I had the space and time and energy
EEllen Yin
44:30Fascinating Well, you just got me even more excited to read your book. So thank you. Thank you for sharing, you know, the thought process and the inspiration behind it. How else did you feel that designing your work week around your body's energy capacity improved your business. So obviously, you got an amazing book deal out of it, and that's a huge accomplishment in and of itself. But also, you know, at the beginning of this conversation, I referenced how in the first year of implementing this approach, you actually increased your revenue by almost 2x from $220,000 to over $500,000 in revenue. And then since then, you know, there's, there's been even more growth. But how specifically did this increase revenue?
EEllen Yin
45:14Because I think sometimes we hear, okay, so you, you know, you designed your work week differently. You're more arrested, more peaceful, more in tune with your needs. But how does that effectively translate into more revenue? I think that's the puzzle piece that we'd love your help in kind of illuminating.
AAmina AlTai
45:30Yeah, I think there's two ways. One, I think that I was coming from a place of scarcity, both time scarcity and money scarcity. So I was like, let me work all of the hours, and then, you know, be delivering this service in this way, but I was coming from that place of scarcity. But when I dialed back the hours, there was space. And also I was like, I think I've been really undervaluing my service, because I've been coming from this place of scarcity. And so I had a really honest conversation with my coach at the time where she was like, like, literally, lady, like, you need to double like, what is happening here? And I was like, I guess you're right.
AAmina AlTai
45:58I've just been so scared and coming from this place of scarcity, and so I doubled my prices, and I remember being terrified, but also it's like the people that want to come with you are going to come with you, and the people that don't, they're going to fall away, and both things are totally fine, and then you're going to magnetize the people that are more aligned. And I think also living the way that I was living, and working the way that I was living, I started to magnetize people that wanted to live and work the same way. So I started to get all of these clients that didn't want to instrumentalize their body, that didn't want to hustle and grind. And so by being more of who we are, we will attract more of the right people that's powerful.
EEllen Yin
46:35Did you publicly document and talk about the changes you were making and how you were, you know, changing the way you work, and you feel like that external processing, if you will, brought in these people. Or was it more kind of nuanced and subtle, and it was just like something people observed in you naturally, that kind of drew them to you?
AAmina AlTai
46:55I think it's both. So at first, I think it was the more subtle, because I'm a firm believer of teaching from the scar and not the wound. So, you know, in those early days, as I was figuring it out, I wasn't telling anybody about it. I was waiting to get my sea legs and understand what was going on before I would teach it forward. But I think that people could sense a shift in me, and then they wanted to be around me, and they were like, what's she doing? It's looking good over there. Like, can we have a piece of that? And so I think that was, that was definitely the impetus initially, and then as I started to talk about it, people wanted to learn more. And then all these people come out of the woodwork that are navigating burnout or chronic illness or just want to work differently because the world that they've been working in just hasn't felt right or aligned or good anymore, right?
EEllen Yin
47:36No, absolutely I can. I can definitely see that is kind of like a chronic illness in and of itself, like just the amount of people who feel that way for long periods of time, outside of of increasing your pricing, so, you know, doubling your pricing, but also, of course, attracting more right fit clients. Is there anything else you changed in the either the offers you sold, either eliminating some that you used to sell, that you no longer sell, or maybe creating a brand new offer, or anything else about the structure of your business that you want to impart on our listeners, that you feel like also move the needle significantly in terms of the revenue jump.
AAmina AlTai
48:13So again, like, in terms of, like, spirituality, it's a really big thing for me. And I always say, like you were saying, There's science behind all of it, and I believe that. And also, like, take what works for you and throw away what does. And I say that to my clients all the time. But also, when I stopped coming from that place of scarcity, I started to look at and think about sales as really a spiritual practice, and like a very spiritual exchange. Like, I wasn't afraid to lose people. I wasn't afraid, like I think so many times. And I teach this now, like, I have a whole curriculum on sales as a spiritual practice and act of service, because I think so much of the time we're so afraid to get the No. We go into that conversation and we're like, gripping for the Yes, but that doesn't serve anybody. That's really manipulative energy, if we think about it.
AAmina AlTai
48:55And so in really kind of looking at the scarcity and healing that wound, then I was going in there, and I was like, I just want to hold the best container for your transfer. Container for your transformation, whether it's with me or somebody else. And so in this conversation, I just want to help you get clear whether that's clear that it's a yes or clear that it's a no. And so that was a really big piece of the journey for me as well.
SSpeaker 1
49:14We
EEllen Yin
49:14We are so aligned there that is exactly how I teach selling. I'm like, your job is to be a guide and almost like a facilitator for their decision making process. It has nothing to do with convincing, coercion or persuasion of either direction. Like you said, 100% so 100% love that we're both 100% on the same page. There, Amina, this has been extremely helpful. Is there a best place for our listeners to continue to connect with you, and then also, of course, to pre order your book The ambition shop.
AAmina AlTai
49:43Thank you so much for having me. This was such a joyful conversation, such a fun one. I'm usually used to like, well, let's like, talk specifically about the framework and this tool. So it was really nice to have this more energetic conversation. So thank you so much for having me. Yay. You can learn more about me on Instagram @AminaAlTai. I'm sure the spelling will be in the show notes. My website is the same. It's Aminaaltai.com and then you can get my book everywhere books are sold. So whether that is Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, bookshop.org It is everywhere.
SSpeaker 1
50:11Amazing.
EEllen Yin
50:11Amazing. Well, we'll include all of those links below for you guys, in the show notes if you're listening on the podcast, and in the video description if you're on YouTube. Thank you again, Amina for joining us, and thank you all for tuning in. We'll catch back up with you and next week's episode.
EEllen Yin
50:33If you love today's episode, send it to a friend. Tag us on Instagram at Cubicle to CEO, or give us a five star rating at rate this podcast.com/cubicletoCEO. You can also access bonus episodes on our private podcast by joining the C Suite, our flagship annual membership providing exclusive cash savings content and an offline community for small business CEOs. Check out the link in the show notes to join us.
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