Hey, welcome to a special bonus episode of Cubicle to CEO, the podcast where we ask successful founders the business questions you can't google. I'm your host, Ellen Yin and our guest today is Noah Kagan, who many of you may recognize as the founder and CEO of AppSumo. The number one software deal site. AppSumo is a bootstrapped eight figure business making more than $80 million a year. Our conversation today was inspired by Noah's book Million Dollar Weekend. So I decided to ask him to share with us five ideas he's implemented at AppSumo that has made the company more than $1 million each. Let's dive in.
So for our listeners, the context for this for this case study is I asked Noah to bring to this conversation, five ideas that he actually implemented in AppSumo that each made $1 million or more in revenue. So these are 5 million dollar ideas in theme with his book million dollar weekend. So Noah, what was what was the first first idea that came to mind that you wanted to share?
The first thing is giveaways. And here's the coolest part about you can get inspiration outside of your industry. So even last night, a million dollar weekend, we had a book birthday party, a zero birthday, because it just launched. And so my girlfriend and I looked on Instagram, baby shower parties for inspiration.
That's awesome.
And it was really inspiring. It was my girlfriend's idea I was like that is really, really smart.
And that's exactly how we found giveaways, where I was on a women's magazine or women's blog. And they were doing a giveaway for some trip to Italy. And I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting. We should try to give away a software app sumo software for solopreneurs. Pay once, get it forever. And I was like, what if we did something that's like, you get the software like Dropbox, which I think is so cool. And we'll give it to you for life. And that will be our giveaway. And my partner then was like, Alright, I'm gonna build software. So we can actually track it like you give us your email, you share with the friends and make join and get all these points, you can get points. So he built it in a few days launched it. And I remember going to lunch, I was at lunch on Sixth Street in Austin, Texas. And it was crazy. At noon, I looked at the dropbox for life giveaway, we had a quarter of a million email, signups.
Oh my gosh
Quarter of a million by noon, and we launched it in the morning. And that alone, you know, if you fast forward over the years, it's an eight figure idea. And so these giveaways are really compelling. And then, you know, another part of businesses, whatever you find working, do a lot of it. So then we did almost a giveaway every single month for and we're still doing them 14 years later, we're still doing giveaways. We just gave away seven Apple vision pros.
I love that. Okay, I have a bunch of questions.
Hit me.
First thing is, okay, so you you did Dropbox for life, I'm assuming like, you were just going to front the cost of whatever that cost for you to provide that right provides that price? Or was this like a Dropbox alternative? Just to make sure I understand.
No. So you know, AppSumo's software for entrepreneurs. So we want to get people who are looking for software tools. So the way that anyone can do this, and I'll tell you a way to do it for free. You don't have to do this way. But Dropbox is like 100 bucks a year. So we thought, hey, if we can make at least 100 bucks a year, then it'll be worth it. We're still paying this person's Dropbox.
Yeah.
But that made over $10 million, because we tracked it, those people that came from just that Dropbox giveaway. And so we just thought, hey, if we can make at least $100 of your profit to cover the cost of it, it will be worth it. And you can experiment, you know?
Yeah
So cheap.
So smart. So cheap. I want to know, what was like the distribution strategy for this giveaway, because obviously, most people like even if we launched, I would say like the average person who maybe doesn't have a large audience, if they're launching a really epic giveaway, even if it's like, I'm gonna buy you a new Mac or a new iPhone every year, right? Yes, there is some virality built into that concept from the get go. But like, it's, it's still astounding to receive a quarter of a million signups in a few hours. So like, what was the How did you get the word out about this giveaway? Or did you have some sort of audience built in?
That's in the masterclass that you're going to sell them, Ellen? No, I'm gonna tell people. So a few things are let me let me just break down a few things. So the software, we actually still sell the software, we ended up selling a giveaway software, it's called KingSumo.com. And that became a million dollar business in of itself, which is kind of funny. So a few things to think about. Because we've done, I don't know, hundreds of different giveaways. When you do a broad item, like an Apple MacBook, or some of these things, you're not going to get a good audience, you're gonna get mostly, like kind of people just want to get a free thing. Right? You have to have a balance of what is the thing that really will appeal dramatically to your target customer.
So you know, we've more related to software for us as the ideal winner we gave away my Tesla a few years ago, like literally my car, and it was great, but it barely broke even that was like, you know, $70,000 car, right? And so it was cool though, that we did it cuz it's cool. Now taking a step back. What I would think about is when we launched it, I didn't have a big Following this is 2010, right? I don't you know, Twitter and all these YouTube wasn't that big back then Facebook and Twitter were sizable, but nowhere near where they are now. It was really because it was something that people wanted to tell others about. And I tried to so many gimmicks that I think you read about in a lot of other books. But what I've noticed with million dollar weekend and and with this giveaway, it was like people just it was so darn good. People wanted to tell others. The other thing that you can do for free and I've had a lot of success with it is that if you don't have money, or you don't have an audience, do a giveaway with a few other people.
Right?
And you can do like these Instagram tag ones, but like, hit up, don't hit up, Ellen, hit up other people bug them and be like, Hey, I love your pants. So like I just, they're like these pants buy like huckberry.com like run.com. I like these and look for smaller ones, and just hit them and be like, Hey, can I get one free pair? And you do a giveaway with me, and I'll get a few other people to do the giveaway. And then you ask them, what's one other company that I should do it with, and then they'll refer a friend, then you do this kind of bundle giveaway, and you ask you give them each their Instagram or their email or their social to promote it. And now you haven't spent any money, which is I've done these a ton. I've done like an office giveaway. We've done like a travel giveaway. And you just ask people, and that's the way to also leverage other people's audiences in a giveaway.
So smart. Yeah, I'm all about leveraging other people's audiences, I think that's the fastest way to grow. Rather, I mean, of course, building community is important. But time is the primary factor that most people like to ignore in that equation. So love the idea of bundling with others different prizes. I am curious, since you have tested all of these different prizes and giveaways out of all the ones you've done, which one on the back end has actually been the most profitable? Is it the drop box for life? Or has there been another prize at the quality of leads that you got actually even outperforms that campaign? If you know?
The more recent ones haven't worked as well, I think the platforms like Facebook and Twitter and Instagram, if they are more aggressive throttling these, you have to be mindful of that.
Yeah.
The ones that were more popular. So here's an easy one. A lot of people can do find a book that's in your category, maybe million dollar weekend, or a different one. And giveaway that those are actually been really surprisingly good for my personal site. Isn't that that did really well, but for AppSumo so for my site, like a giveaway, Seth Godin books years ago, and those were super successful, you got $30 in books, super cheap.
Yeah.
With AppSumo I would say the dropbox crushed Evernote for life that crushed. We did Spotify and Netflix for life
Interesting.
Again, these are super cool. People are like, Yeah, but those are those are too broad. So what happens is it goes on like Reddit slash are slash like freebies. Website,
Yeah, inundated.
Just get people signing up to win it that what we've noticed now in our approach around these giveaways is more if we can break even on the giveaway, meaning how much it costs us versus how much we can directly see direct revenue, and it's cool. We're okay with that, because we think it gets good exposure and good brand awareness for people thinking about AppSumo.
Right. So brilliant. I love this. Well, that is I think something that any of us can implement, like you said, this weekend, to your point, it doesn't take a whole lot of lift to execute on this idea. Let's jump over to idea number two, what was your second million dollar idea that you implemented AppSumo?
Email marketing.
Okay, so that's a pretty broad topic. Is there something specific, specific that you are thinking of when it comes to how you guys at AppSumo do email marketing differently?
Well, let me let me take a step back, because I think people have heard email marketing. But I think how we got there, and then how we executed today is really the interesting part. And just to give context, we didn't do email marketing for the first year.
Wow.
And I think people you know, maybe copy others or don't know that that's exactly my point. I think people don't realize the power of email, like, let me give you a great example of a million subscribers on YouTube, which is pretty cool. But I put out a video about my book launch million dollar weekend last week, 12,000 views. Just so great. It's better than none. Like I'm glad is greater than zero. But think about that. I've spent two years and over a million dollars cash, paying the team and hiring and flying and all this difference. I have to make these videos, both out. And so the reality is that YouTube controls my audience, not me. I don't have I can't talk to them unless I make some really neat video that YouTube decides, right? And so that's the power of email marketing, and AppSumo.com $80 million a year business. Half of it is from email, if not, sometimes a little more, but give or take us around 50 million in gross sales from email.
That's so impressive, but not surprising. I mean, I'm on AppSumos list and you guys are very diligent about Yes. Well, real life case study here. And you've got you've got me like many, many a time you know, when I'm looking for something or not looking for something, sometimes you just present such a good offer that I can't resist even if it wasn't top of mind for me, so unsurprising that that is such a huge driver of revenue. in your business, is there anything about the way that you email whether it's the cadence, whether it's the different types of emails, or even list growth that you would want to shed some insight on for our listeners.
Where most of your listeners at? So maybe let's answer it from that perspective versus like I can, I can go over the 15 years of me doing a lot of different emails, I think we sort of sent over a billion.
I mean, I would say our listeners really are a broad range. We have new people who listen to our show, we have people who are decades long, established entrepreneurs, who listen to our show, most I would say currently are in the online business space, not all. But even like beyond that, though, I think I would just love to know what has worked for you, because I understand it's not a direct copy, paste. But what I think you've even proven with your earlier point about looking at baby showers for giveaway ideas is that sometimes it does take looking at someone outside of our industry or niche or even stage of business to get a brilliant idea. So, share share what's worked for you?
Yeah, I was thinking of just different examples, I would say for everyone out there, the number one thing is they didn't start it. They don't start their email list today. And you can use you know, I use send fox.com It's what I built because I hate subscriptions. But you can use MailChimp or ConvertKit almost everyone regrets not starting sooner. I get I know, I'm gonna give you more won't give it more like complicated. Most people, they just don't start. And the other thing is that they don't stick with the cadence of communication.
So I've sent an email every week on Noahkagan.com for 15 years.
Wow.
So when I launch a book, which we just launched, you know, people are pretty responsive. And generally I aim for I think a healthy email list is 20 to 30%, at least open rates. Now here's a tip Sometimes though, I want to people want to hear like these like secretive things. And I'm not saying this is what you're asking. I like secretive things. I like to tell me this cool tactic. But most the time, how you can get really rich is this boring stuff. That's fundamentals. I have to balance telling you know what I mean? Because I want some secrets.
Simple trade off, like simple truths and execution of the game. Yeah.
If you today, just put a form on your site or update your your bios on your socials or posted to your socials. Hey, I'm gonna think about something that you do that others want. So I posted in December, hey, I'm going to show you exactly my 2024 yearly goals, join my newsletter today. And I'll send it out to you tomorrow. That was probably the number one, I guess they call them lead magnets, which is I'm sharing how my goals and how I got there. And that was was a good reminder, like, what's the reason people should be excited to get into newsletter? So that was a really powerful. And the other thing I would say that I've done as well, literally, since the beginning of AppSumo, is I reply to almost every single person personally.
wow. You and I think this is really like, like if someone gets an email from AppSumo, and they just hit reply. You respond to that?
Not today. Today. It's like that's hundreds of 1000s of millions of people. So it's a bit much, but on Noah kagan.com. If you joined today and you reply to the first email, I reply back to you.
Nice.
Personally.
That's a really solid practice.
Yeah, and they're like, Oh, who's your VA? And they always do this. They say that, hey, I know. This is no as team. Can you tell? No. Thanks. And I'm like, This is no as assistant named Noah. He says cool. And I think a lot of times we don't get to scale, we don't get to millions, because we don't focus on the ones. And that's also been fun. I mean, frankly, you know, it's interesting, we did a book launch party in this is a whole, maybe this is a separate thing. But involving your customers in your business early and showing them all the things happening in the kitchen is a really great way of building relationship, I think, I think it seems like you're doing a great job of that. And I would say we had this launch team for the book.
And what was really interesting, it wasn't like, you know, it was 1300 people, I manually message them on Twitter or LinkedIn to join my launch team. But what was fascinating is like, I knew most of these people, I knew most of these people. And I think people are like, Oh, wow, like that's different. Like I thought you're gonna buy ads. And, yes, we spent half a million dollars a month on ads. And yes, there's all these things, but a lot of it is because like, one by one, I'm talking to people, I make sure they're happy. I'm seeing what they need writing about it or providing deals about it. And I think if you can do that, that is how you can build a very large business without actually a large audience.
I want to underscore that point. Because, I mean, I'll just use myself as an example. You did this to me in real time. I mean, that's why we're having this conversation. Conversation today. Right. So just to give a little backstory, I think I don't even remember what what specific partnership this contract was for. But I get an email in my inbox. What are you big edits, it's a DocuSign. So it's like, you know, when you sign things on DocuSign it says, like, confirmed like all parties have signed this document or whatever. So it's a it's a response to a DocuSign and I go home, what is this? I click open. It's Noah. And he's like halen just curious if you still use DocuSign and I'm like, What is this email? This is like so random. I'm like, do you have we spoken before? Do we know each other? It was like it was. It was great.
It was excellent because it was such an attention grabber it was just, it's what you would call a pattern interrupt, right. It's something I wasn't expecting to receive in my unbox and it was a question that I also wouldn't normally be asked but it was so interesting like I was so intrigued by like, what what is the purpose behind this question that of course I had to respond. And then you know one thing led to another and here we are talking on this podcast. And so I'm just curious like the point that you made about sometimes we ignore the the one to ones the unscalable pieces, which actually are what lead to the millions? I would love to know is a practice like that the kind of just this very casual like, let me just respond to or hit reply on like an existing random email thread to person. Is that a outreach thing that you do often when it comes to email marketing? Or was that kind of just like happenstance?
So for context, here's the best way you can ever kind of promote your business is prove your business. So million dollar weekend I, yes, I've written the book. Yes, I've started a lot of businesses just I've helped people do it. But let me do it again. So when I did my own million dollar weekend, not using my social media, not using my email list. And one of the business ideas that we came up with following the million dollar weekend process was a DocuSign alternative. So one of the ways I looked up potential customers was I went through my Gmail and I looked up every single person who sent me a DocuSign in the past five years. And then I sent them an email.
Wow.
So it wasn't there wasn't like a sneaky, like internet marketer you like, Hey, you're supposed to intro me but it's really an intro to yourself or anything? No, it's just I looked at people who have sent me and then I was curious if they would be interested.
Yeah.
In an alternative solution. And we were able to sell, I was able to sell $3,000. To normal people. This is not some crazy audience of friends that just gave me money. A lot of people rejected me. But it was people that were qualified. And after the 24 hours of selling, had $3,000, giving that to a developer and February 19, on AppSumo, they'll be a DocuSign alternative. So that was the original intent of me communicating with you.
I love that. It's so true, though, sometimes we try to overcomplicate and this is something that I feel like I talk about a lot on the podcast, too. We almost think of our customers as these like magical unicorn beans that we have to breathe into existence, when in reality, they exist already. They're hanging out online in person, it's just about finding them where they're already active, and then finding a way to get in front of them. Right. So I think that makes a lot of sense why you chose that as an outreach effort. Anyway, since we were on the topic of email marketing,
No this is great. I mean, I think another return to email marketing, I will give you more because you're like sunk, you're happy enough. And I'm trying to make Ellen happy.
On YouTube, I am very happy you guys no pressure
she's she's extremely happy. I'll give you one last one are on even work with AppSumo. Again, with email marketing, I'll give you two things. When we were doing emails with AppSumo. In the beginning, I didn't even collect emails, anyone send it. And then when I started sending it, it was like, Hey, we have this product, go check it out.
Right.
And then we actually, and this is what I've done as well, for the launch of the book. We wrote emails, I mean, this the amount of time we would put into an email and the quality, the emails are so good that even if you didn't buy you want to read the email. And I think that's something to really think about, like I was your husband, when he emails you to open those.
Yeah, I mean, he never opened right? Like notorious for never checking his inbox. Oh, yeah, I would open it just because I'm like, why are you emailing me?
And so I think that's an interesting thing about in our own businesses of communication with audiences and audiences turning to customers is how do you get so good that they're looking forward to talking to you? And then yeah, what emails are in your inbox that you are always opening? And why? And then in your business, doing the same thing with AppSumo? Yeah, we, you know, I think the email team alone is maybe six, seven people just dedicated to writing emails.
Wow.
And so I think that's a good lesson of make the email so good. Even if people don't buy anything ever. It's okay that they're excited about what you're sending. And the last tip, I would just quickly add in. This is something that you said, and I'm just highlighting, we did this thing called survey to sale. So this has been a new thing that I did with the book that was really fun. I've done this in the past as well. I would send out an email. And then I would put a survey and the survey is like, Hey, I'm going to do a book speaking tour. Where would you like me to come?
Okay.
So email in my personal my personal answer is not up soon. And maybe like 300 people put in like, hey, come to Japan. I'm like, Ooh, that sounds nice. Come to Oregon. I was like, you know, go see Ellen. And then those people that raised their hand and said, Yes, I'm interested, basically, in a book tour. I said, Hey, would you like to preorder the book and during my launch team?
Hmm.
And the thing that everyone can replicate in their own business is how can you survey people to raise their hand and say, they'd like to be your customer, or they'd like to purchase something. And they're basically self indicating that there, they'd like to buy something before they even recognize it. And then you just help solve their problem. So this person probably wants me to come speak in their city. Yeah. And then I just emailed them and I said, Hey, you want me to come speak here? I can't promise you I will. But I'd love for you to also if you're interested. Sounds like you're interested. preorder the book. Here's the link. Let me know if you have questions. And that was I think I ran a 50% conversion rate of people I think there's might be higher that is so so smart so called survey to sell method that's been a that was a really fun one where people are also excited like when they're excited to hear back from me but to they're like yeah of course I'm gonna get the book
that idea preemptively selling someone without like without even a product in the yeah like just this idea of like do you have this interest you have this problem this curiosity whatever it is that's so smart My mind is already spinning with like surveys I wanted-
to think because you can survey anything my publications, but how's your family life? How's your clothing life? How you know who here is interested in this travel thing? And then based on if any, if no one says anything great. That's awesome. Then you can email them and ask them why they didn't say anything?
Yeah.
then you can actually find out why they don't care. And then like, I don't like the way you worded I didn't like and you're not selling them anything. You're just finding out if they're qualifying themselves, and if you can help them with the problem, or help them with their the opportunity that they want.
I feel like the way your brain thinks is like a masterclass in curiosity, it's very interesting to me.
Thank you.
It's great. No, I feel like that is the best salespeople I know, are just really, really curious people. And they don't really take anything personally. It's not a rejection of self, right? If someone's like, not interested. It's just like, okay, based on this context or situation, there wasn't a fit or alignment here. So anyways, great strategy survey to sales strategy. I'm curious, is that in your book? Is that in million dollar weekend? Or is this just like a bonus? Oh, okay.
Well, it's not a bonus, necessarily, but it's the same concepts apply, which is, how do you understand and find something that people are excited? This is where people miss out excited to give you money for not having to convince them. And so it's the same way over on the book, same way we did AppSumo, which is, hey, if you want to come to a bookstore, yeah, you know, a few 100 People said yes. And then that's kind of an indication that maybe they would also like a book to go along with the book tour. And I think you can apply that not that's, you know, that is the method I teach, which is if you're doing something, let's find people who are excited, if not great, let's find something they are excited about.
For sure. Love that. Number three. What's it number three are flying.
We are flying AppSumo originals. When I talk to you about the giveaways number one, we built that KingSumo software. So that was actually getting Damien. He's in Australia. I've never met him. It's been like we working together 10 years. He's amazing. Father, too good dude loves fishing. And he's like, hey, I want 25% of the business. And I'll go build it for you. And then we'll just give me 25% of sales of this giveaway thing that we were using. So again, notice maybe things that you're doing that people like, I think that those are some of the best businesses like, what are you doing that people maybe it's cookies, maybe it's clothing, maybe it's positivity, like Ellen and notice that and then think, oh, maybe that is actually a business.
And so that was something that we built, he launched it became a seven figure business. And then over the years, what we've specifically done with our originals products is we look for what's safe, then this is the concept of another what's a free or low cost product that will get people into your ecosystem. That's actually good.
Yeah.
Now let me be clear on that, because you can have a doo doo PDF, seven ways redo your wardrobe. And it just like that literally goes into the downloads cemetery of people's computer or phone folders, versus making something so darn good that they want to know they want more.
Yeah. It's like whetting the appetite.
Yeah, it's like the Costco hot dog. It is it's the Costco hot dog and these products for us. So since then, we now have built out a full team and this is you know, an AppSumo mantra which is test and invest and then double down just like giveaways then we ran giveaway still 15 years running giveaways. Same thing with these originals products we launched KingSumo that crushed. And then I was like, what other things do we hate that there's needs to be a low cost alternative, not hate do things that we want that there's a low cost alternative that also is viral.
So then we're like, oh, MailChimp, let's create SendFox.com. And then two years ago, we created TidyCal.com which is a calendar alternative. And each of those has become a seven figure business by themselves. And more importantly, that the revenue side is interesting for us, it's actually the number one driver of new buyers to AppSumo. So for everyone out there, you don't have to create a software could you create a spreadsheet? Could you create a checklist? Could it be a book? Could it be actually maybe stickers depends on like the how much your your customers are worth, but finding something that's a way of getting people excited to find out about your business?
Yeah, I think the low low ticket customer acquisition channel is really smart because like you've shared even in the giveaway scenario if you can just break even on the front end you've essentially acquired that customer for free. So anything beyond that anything they purchase after that is profit. So such a smart idea. I would like to know though just from like a pure logistics perspective so like absolute for those of you who may live under a rock have never heard of AppSumo. Definitely check it out. I mean, if you're an entrepreneur, hopefully you've heard of it. It's a man Using marketplace for all sorts of software deals like you get truly the best price you can get anywhere else. And oftentimes, they're, you know, subscriptions or software's that typically do have some sort of like publicly sell a subscription. But when you buy it through AppSumo, it's like a lifetime deal.
So, on that side, on the marketplace side, I understand the concept because you're, you're really like a conduit, or like a customer acquisition channel, right? For the software brands, you don't have to deal with the fulfillment for the customers you bring on that side. But for your AppSumo originals for like TidyCal, SendFox and your other products that can Sumo. When you offer like a lifetime deal on a software? Have you ever run into any challenges on the back end? Because there isn't that recurring revenue to sustain? Like if there's software breakdowns, and I'm just thinking of their software subscriptions to the space that may have, you know, have struggled, because because of that,
Yeah you know, in Million Dollar Weekend, we kind of have like a one minute business model. So how people can think about this and evolve it. Yeah. And so when we did KingSumo, when you you know, the beauty of software is that there's not a lot of costs to run it generally, right? It's your server cost. And there's not a lot of traffic bills, or server costs. It's pretty minimal and a lot of things now, cheap forward. Kingston was cool SendFox though you actually have to pay for email. Yeah, so every all these mail providers like ConvertKit, or MailChimp, or BI they, none of them actually send the email there. They use a third party called Twilio or there's other providers. Now, there's an actual cost when people send more emails, so if we have a lifetime deal, eventually we'll lose money, and we can't support it.
Yeah.
And so the two things people don't understand for us is like, just understand your business economics. So we do have recurring revenue at certain volumes. And then a lot of the way I like to look at marketing is, when do we get our ROI back. So if you're going to spend money to build something, or you're doing an ad, or you're doing this kind of product, like with SendFox, like holy crap in five years, we lose money. That's not good. But with TidyCal.com, for instance, we launched a very quickly within 30 days, instantly, it was crushing. It does around $3,000 A day in profit. Wow. Which is amazing. Which is crazy. It's crazy. And people love it. No, it's interesting, though, it doesn't really cost us anything to run. Like, there's not a lot of traffic on these pages. There's nothing but we do pay $60,000 a month for the team to maintain it.
Okay.
60,000 a month.
The labor costs.
Yeah, but yeah, the team costs, the server cost is minimal. But that is really the team cost. And the reality, though, is that if we took the team off, it would stay at the $3,000 a month for give or take, I don't know, maybe another five years, 10 years. And we would still be generating all that money, but we wouldn't have to support it besides maybe one or two support people.
Right. Interesting. Okay. That makes sense. I guess like, your pricing economics, like you said, differ from product to product. You, you guys speaking of app, similar originals, though, I know this is kind of a tangent, but it's still an original product of your own. The subscription or the membership that you guys offer, where like AppSumo fanatics can, you know, get this membership and then they get extra discounts like a 10% discount on top of the already hugely discounted deals?
I know.
Tell me a little bit about that. Like, what was the, I guess, the genesis of that? And how do you view that in the suite of original products?
Yeah, zooming out of AppSumo, you know, the software deal site for entrepreneurs. Two things I need to highlight. So one, you're hearing the things that are working, by the way, everyone. I can also cover all the things we've tried that you've never heard of.
Yeah.
But you need to test and try things and we can go over a little bit of that. But I think that's important where people like man, he's launching Natick, crush and sidecars, but I've had way more failures than successes. Way more, right. So even within the originals products, we launch them super quickly. We find out people want them if they don't we, we shelve it. We tell people, we're sorry, are we giving the money back and we close it down? So we did an email batch. So like email signatures, we did like a link tree competitor called sleek bio. We did shorty SMS, which is like an SMS thing. None of those. I don't think anyone's even heard of those. I hope not. And we just launched so many other things like that with the same intent. Right?
So I think conceptually, what to think about is what's the core of your business? And how are you doing things that keep stacking towards the core? And I think there's times we've done things way outside our core, like let's do Shopify Ecommerce. Or let's try to do like a consumer marketplace. And like, that's just not our bread and butter. Our bread and butter is promoting software deals.
Yeah. Yeah.
So how do we keep doing things that build the amount of people we can help promote their deals or bring people to get those deals? Now in terms of AppSumo plus, that's that's our VIP membership. A lot of I think every business in the world wants a subscription revenue recurring revenue
Im reading a book about it right now. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, the problem is, zero of our customers are excited to have a subscription. I think that's kind of a universal truth. Like No one wakes up in the mornings like, oh, what Bill Am I subscribed to today?
Yeah.
No, I, you know, and I think that's where a lot of entrepreneurs get things done. ackwards, they're like how do I start a subscription business? It's like, no. How do you find a recurring problem? That's where you have to create shift. And that's where we've made a lot of mistakes on. So with our plus, it's been a, it's been an interesting business doing this plus, this is what's gonna be crazy. So if you're in plus the number one seller, plus you get 10% off the products, which are already insane deals, they're already insane. You get these amazing deals, 50 bucks for life.
Yeah.
And to give 10% off if you actually do the math, so we make $100 a year in subscription. But the 10% discount, we may actually be losing money. Like if we didn't have the plus thing every year, we actually might be making more money. But we've noticed that once you get in plus, you generally have a higher propensity to purchase.
Yeah, it's about your factor. Right? The frequent
There's a return factor, there's a loyalty if someone's, you know, trying to buy software somewhere. They're like, well, I get my temper sent off here. So I might as well get it from AppSumo, even though most of our stuff is exclusive.
Yeah
I would say that over the years, we've we've tried a lot of things to add more value, in our opinion to the subscription, but it really hasn't made a difference in people sticking with it. Really, it's just like our their products they want to buy. And we're trying a lot. We're still trying new things like there's a woman named Katie, who runs it. And they're just there's new stuff. We're trying around getting people to get our turn to either be zero, which is hard or very close to that.
Interesting. Well, thank you for sharing honestly about that. I feel like that's really important to also highlight like you said, the things that aren't working or maybe not even aren't working. But just there's no clear verdict. Yeah, right. It's like-
There's not the thing I would recommend for others is that test things out and the tests lead you to innovation, that test leads you to learnings that test leads you to evolve. And so we try to think was that was basically called briefcase, it was the Netflix for software.
Interesting.
So that was it was like, Yeah, never heard of it. And that's why that's my point, people like, go and start today. Go practice these things, get the reps in, experiment, fail, learn, iterate, improve. And so, briefcase, the model didn't work. But we're like, oh, there's something cool where like, they can get a discount, and then just get it on the products we're already promoting. Because the way we set it up was too complicated for us to operate. That led to AppSumo plus, which is now I mean, there's like 20,000 or 21,000 members in it. But that's only because we tried something else that that didn't work.
Right.
I think that's an important point.
That's so cool. I as someone who's building a membership or subscription business myself,
nice.
Even just that one way you phrased it like, what is the recurring problem that you're solving? I, I really appreciate that. It is I mean, I think in business, it is the simple things that really make a difference and how you think about problems. And I, I really feel like what I love most about interviewing people on the show is it's not so much to your point that the small tactics that I'm after, it's really like, how does your brain process and think about problems?
That's very smart of you. Yeah. I mean, the here's one way to think if everyone out I think a lot of people would love to have a community, right, like you get this people get interact with, here's the simple thing you can do to make your committee more valuable, like make a list, get people work with one of our customers, have them list if they have their own business be like I want you to list all your monthly bills. Like let's literally can you take like tenants make a list of everyone your bills, now put them in order of the ones you're going to cancel from easiest to cancel the hardest to cancel? And what you'll do, so we do this twice a year at AppSumo.
Yeah.
Internally. And it's really fascinating. What you can't cancel. And then you have to think about for Ellen's business with your community, like what can you do? So you're the last one they're gonna cancel? Or they're like, Oh, I'll keep I'll keep Ellen over my Twitter account, or I'll keep my Yeah, my hosting Ellen's. My, again, that's, that's I mean, you just have to listen to them and think about maybe, is it getting them customers? Is it them having certain coaching? Is it that they get certain bonuses, and, you know, you can keep checking back on that so that you can improve it over time with as you get people in your community? And that's where you can keep improving it.
That's such a cool exercise. I think I might do that for myself. Just, I don't even know, just as my own mental exercise about why I prioritize things the way that I do that. That would be
Yeah, I mean, we did AppSumo we do twice here, the biannual expense review we do with every contractor and every bill we have, okay. And then we have the cost. And then we have like kind of ROI justifications.
Yeah.
Like, hey, we spent, we had this like $12,000 Like, teammate review software. I was like, can we just use Google Forms? And it is a little bit more complicated. So more commonly asked for the people team, but it's like, yep, See ya, but then our hosting Stripe.
Yeah.
Some of the dev software, our email marketing software Klaviyo their 6000 a month it's like Oh, our in our Affiliate Software.
Yeah.
It's also by the way, all those things that you're canceling easy, or hard, the ones maybe that are harder. You can think of as business opportunities.
How do you how do you make are better still solution, right?
Or more affordable solution? And yeah, let me just give you two quick examples on that as Klaviyo, which is you know, ecommerce email, we did create a competitor. And we didn't really talk to anyone to play you.
Okay, interesting.
So one that's not our that's not our exact customer exact customers like a solopreneur, Freelancer agency, someone like yourself, like someone's hustlin likes good deals, but can also pay full prices.
Yeah.
Makes things happen. You're not necessarily an ecommerce store.
Yeah.
And so it was like, totally out of our wheelhouse. We spent six months building it probably, I don't know if there's a million in salaries, but something like that. And I couldn't beg a person to switch. I couldn't beg my friends. Like, no, you got a big dog, I was like, I was begging on the knees begging, and no one was switched. But then there's other things like this tiny cat alternative, super easy to get people switch from Cali, and then we're gonna be competing against impact.com that we pay like $120,000 a year for like, 1970 software for affiliate. And we think that there's a big opportunity around that for for us and as well as our software creators.
I think so to-
Talk to the potential of people first.
Yeah. And I mean, I think that just brings up a another great reminder that it's helpful to, I mean, you talked about in the book to pre sell as much as you can, because, you know, the idea of validation really is, is key. I would love to know, your fourth idea. I know, you just gave us a bunch of bonus ones. So thank you. But-
yeah, I was like, this is like I'm gonna I've never shared any of this stuff. This is literally like, if no, not in a condensed format. I was like, actually, I'm gonna, this is really good. I don't know. I'm like, this is very good stuff. Like, this is how we operate the business.
I would, I mean, I would love for you to share on your YouTube channel. Let's let's put it on both. And your people get a masterclass.
That's definitely I think, by the way, so to kind of comments on this one, we are pre selling that software. The we have a guy who's reaching out this affiliate. So we're reaching out to people to see if they'll use it. And then if they say, Yes, we're actually using a different software to deliver it. And if that works the way we think it's going to work, then we're going to build it ourselves.
Okay, nice.
That's exactly how we teach a million dollar weekend exactly how we run AppSumo. It's exactly how it's worked time and time again. And also I've failed at time and time again. So I ideally learn from my mistakes.
Yeah.
I was, I was saying for the other people out there, as well with, you know, this material, like even content, like a lot of it came from the book, because I've tweeted it, or I've posted on YouTube, or I've put a blog out, and I'm looking at what people are responding to. So this book is based on a Tim Ferriss article from 2011. But it's evolved a lot since then. But I was pretty confident like, well, people love that if I can make it really strong and put it in a better story format, I think it's going to do well. So for all the business out there, how do you come back to the survey to sale come back to all these things like making sure people are excited about what you're doing? Versus like, Alright, I gotta have a subscription product here. This is what's available.
Yeah.
Alright, so now we're at time. Let's number four. Number four. This one, I'm already I can already tell you're not going to like but being public. Because you like I know. It's so obvious. Okay.
No,
I will say-
I mean, no, I don't think any of these are, it's not bad to have something that is like been heard before. I think it all comes down to execution. I mean, I was just talking about this with a podcast guest right before you ideas are cheap one in a million, but execution is everything. So being public may seem like a general statement, but it's like, but how do you specifically be public on behalf of a brand like AppSumo?
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of I don't know, I would assume was decent on your audience is themselves are the brand, which is the business?
Yeah, I think I mean, a decent amount of people are personal brands for sure that listen to this podcast. But then there are many others who similar to you have a business where the brand stands on its own apart from their personal, their personality,
Which is great. Yes, great. So yeah, it's something taking, you know, zooming out or taking a step back. I like being public. I like the ego. I like the attention. I like the one on one connections. I like marketing. I like figuring out you know, it's fun. It's creative, I love it. So there are people who are like, I don't like being public. I'm like, don't be public, then get someone else to be public. Or do it faceless, faceless is a huge trend that's going in content creation. And so I would say we've surveyed it's like, 35% of AppSumo customers, no, me or no of me.
And now, you know, with the book and stuff coming out, it's definitely been a huge, I think, and so far internally, we're we're very confident we're seeing them. We're seeing that there's like a wow, people are gonna know AppSumo because I get this book. And they're like, Oh, what's this AppSumo thing, or I see no doing some weird interviews on YouTube. But entrepreneurship, what's AppSumo and so this really applies in all businesses. And I do think more and more I see my girlfriend now she's buying things because you know, she's pregnant. So she's like, Oh, I like this mom, and she cooks and then now she's recommending a stroller. Yeah. And I think that's gonna become more and more pervasive.
And so it's really nice to be able to have that direct link with you in that audience versus having to pay someone else which we do do and that's number five. But you can do it or find some else we also do Now besides me doing it at AppSumo, we're starting to have people inside our team do it. So Nick and marketing is doing it. I'm trying to have Alana who's our CFO do it. And again, I want people who want to do it. I'm not. But Mitchell on our team. We've, yeah, so much our team, we said in q1 this year, your job is to try to make 300 pieces of content just and let's just see what happens. Yeah, instead of just getting views, right, because some of us you, you optimize for the wrong thing. Right. And so it's like trying to build other brand ambassadors within the business.
I think that's really smart. It reminds me of like, what peloton has done really, really well with their instructors, right? Like they're almost mini brands within themselves. Or even like if you look at a more traditional content business, like Dave Ramsey's brand, whether you love him or hate him, I mean, his Ramzi personalities do a lot to further the reach of his brand. So it's not just his face representing so that's a really interesting experiment. I'll be curious to see. See where that
yeah, his name is Mitchell Cohen, so people can go check him out and see what I'd recommend for especially for being in public. Here's my let me give you another more obvious this should just be called obvious expensive advice. Obvious valuable advice.
Obvious advice that has made millions of dollars though. I mean, there is a qualifier, there is that qualifier. Yeah,
Yeah. Which is crazy. You know, I was, I was literally in a cubicle, and I was called Cubicle to CEO. I was literally in a cubicle, gray ceiling, gray walls,
same
business casual office, it was the worst. And there's not anything, you know, what I turn on my bills. I'm not better than any of these people out here.
Right?
Anyone that can do what I did, I just started and then I've stuck with it. That's the only difference. And that's available for everyone to do, too.
I think one of my favorite quotes is that that idea that success and failure are walking the same path. It's just successes further down the path. So it's, it's about people who are successful are just the ones who were either stubborn enough or lucky enough to stay in the game for long enough, right? It's kind of like, eventually something something sparks. And so I agree with you there. But anyways, continue continue with your being public, or was that kind of the thesis of that just making yourself known and building that connection?
Yeah, I mean, I think for a lot of the people out there, it's realizing that you can become a CEO, and just like you're teaching them to do it, and then you but you have to get started today. And I would say the public part is, I think one of the interesting things I've been reflecting on is how many cool people I've met from a probably generated a lot of money, but it wasn't Nestle. Like just the intent of that. It was like my best friend Neville was just calling during the show. And I met him because he had a blog on personal finance. And I commented on it in 2003. And now he's my best friend.
That's so awesome
right now, and it's just like, there's so many amazing people out there. And, you know, people are like, how do you meet more people? It's like, well, go do interesting stuff. Go put out interesting information. Yeah. So here's the here's the obvious tip on building a public. This is the one thing and people again, they're not going to do it. But one person today is going to change your life from it. I promise you pick one platform to win on.
Everyone is trying to compete on too many places. Find one that you enjoy, right like a million dollar weekend. There's like Nick Huber on Twitter, there's Jordan Harbinger on podcast. You look at your own hardware. He doesn't his YouTube channel. He doesn't try to win there. Because he can't. But he's winning Super big and podcast world. So same with me. I'm not trying to win on Tik Tok. I don't care. I don't use it. I don't like it.
Yeah,
I don't try to win on anything. I really try to win on YouTube. And then I try to get people on my email list. Yeah. And that's definitely what I've seen is that people building in public or doing what I'm going to put it on LinkedIn and then repackage it. It's like, well, how's that one doing? No, no, no, we're doing great. Oh, yeah, keep doing that.
Okay, it's focus is the most underrated strategy in business. Yeah.
Just do one of the platforms and find the one that you spend more time on or where you feel like you're getting the results. And I felt like YouTube for me was, I enjoyed it. And it was getting the best results from the time it took in terms of the quality of the audience, people finding out and joining the newsletter.
For sure. I think YouTube audiences are really sticky in terms of like, the relationship they build with creators. And also, I mean, you can't beat the Evergreen value have the longevity of the content there. Right. I mean, it's it's so hard to find another content platform that can really compete with that other than maybe blogging. Love that reminder. Thank you for that important reminder.
Thanks.
Let's number five, you kind of teased it a little bit, but also I'm a little confused, because I feel like we're multiple teases. I'm like, which which direction? Are we going here?
Oh, where's he gonna go is gonna go. So the number five one for us is video ambassadors.
Okay.
So that has been a minute, yes, we're going to like these are all million dollar things.
Yes
these are the least million if not eight figure things within our business. And, again, with starting a business in these things, you have to you know, think about the opportunity cost, right? Because if you're doing a bunch of five figure things or four figure things out, you're you're gonna stay in that size. And so as you get bigger, you start thinking, okay, is this a six figure opportunity or seven figure opportunity? So video ambassadors specifically, we noticed our affiliates were just crushing in terms of we would pay them our payouts. Anyone can sign up to be an absolute affiliate. If you get approved. They're just making a lot of money themselves. And we were returning so we'd spent $1 We'd make over $1 back our first week.
Wow.
We're like That's crazy. And then we have an advisor Moody. Moody's like, do more of that. And I was like, okay, good advice. Thanks. Here's your money. And so we tried doing more like video sponsorships, just like sponsored people to talk about deals and software products, right. So instead of bringing it in house, like with me, this is out of house. And so now we tried it in the beginning of last year. And now there's a team of five people sponsoring different video creators to talk about AppSumo deals. So when this book came out, we had I don't know, I think 30 people that made unboxing videos. That's awesome. That's also pretty interesting. Now, like if, as we have other things that come out, whether it's our digital signature product that you might be interested in, we have a network, I think it'll probably be in the hundreds, not 1000s that were like, here's 50 bucks, there's 100 bucks or 500 bucks, here's 1000 bucks, it's 10,000, can you just talk about this product.
And it's been insanely high ROI monetarily. But it's also cool to have this content, as you said, that has sustainability and people trust from people that they're talking about products that they you know, they like these people. Now, the thing I've seen about prefilled answers. So a lot of people are like, Well, what do I do? How do I do that myself? And like, great question. I like finding people personally that are just, I don't know, I guess I just how I feel about myself, I like finding people on the come up. I like finding people that I don't know, they have really good content, and they have really good engagement. But they're not some there's someone when you message them and DM them, they'll reply, right. And generally, the size of that is varies, but maybe let's say around 10,000 followers or less. And I'm just on the lookout for it. And I reaching out to these people regularly. And it's not, it's not like I'm trying to be sneaky, like I need to use a CRM and track you and I want to work it. So like, I just think you're doing cool stuff.
Yeah.
And for some of them, it's like, hey, maybe you can be a video ambassador. Or maybe there's something in the future we'll do together. But that's the thing I would say is invaluable for this video ambassador program for AppSumo as well. Because these people for you're able to find them as they're getting started, they're likely going to trust us and stick with us, once they get big. And not everyone will. But definitely some Well, most people when you're paying Facebook ads, or Google ads, or YouTube ads or anything, you're paying market prices.
But if you're able to sponsor people that don't have market rates, you're gonna basically get an advantage there because one, they're getting more than they expect. But it's also better, it's a better payment than you would pay a market price or when people have if someone sends you like, hey, talk to my ad agency, or here's my here's my press kit, or here's my rate kit, you're screwed. You're paying full price.
Simple, simple advice.
But this is the same playbook that I mean, this is the same, I would say the preformance remarketing we're specifically doing videos, but we did it. I did it mint.com. That's how I got started a lot with Appsumo.com. Who could I sponsor very early on, and now we're having a lot of success with it specifically in Video Creators.
So I want to dig a little bit more into this because I'm sure some of our listeners, slash YouTube viewers will be, you know, thinking on this and going okay, I like this idea. You know, obviously user generated content is more authentic people trust recommendations for people that already follow hence why we have this you know, multibillion dollar influencer marketing industry. But I think the execution of it is where people can often struggle, because it's like, okay, I could maybe source let's say, if you are working with a smaller budget, let's say you source five to 10, great video ambassadors, and you, you know, they agreed to talk about your product or your service your offer, how do you ensure that you give them maximum flexibility for creative freedom so that they can really shine and you know, their personality and how they talk to their audience?
But also, how do you make sure that whatever video they're creating is conversion driven. So it's not just oh, that's, that's nice for brand awareness, but you're actually able to track the ROI, like you mentioned, on the back end.
Totally. And so what I would encourage people to do is either try to do it for free to start, meaning give them your product, like, Hey, I've got a course Hey, I've got a community. And to be clear, you're working with people who are not really making money.
Okay.
You have to I think people are forgetting these influencers, you know, are just getting started. And they're excited that wow, I can make a career out of actually like talking about products. I already like, you know, there's a guy Dave Swift, who's now doing that full time, or there's people and we've, I think his name is Jose, who does it only in Spanish. But let's go back in time to beginning of January of last year, we just reached out to one person, and we're like, hey, let's make a video. Here's a product talk about how you want and for everyone out there, you can literally just use like a bitly or tracking link, or having go to a certain landing page or having buy from them.
And I think what I would I would focus on not so much of like, they have to have talking points, which we do now. Or they have to have certain things or contracts, which we do now. But early on, you just want to see is this working for your business? Because this might not work for other people out there. But again, how do you do it literally today right now and try it out with someone small and you can look go search for a software product on YouTube or search on Instagram or Tik Tok and the mmm and look for again, small people who are not getting attention.
Don't just DM them on the platform DM on LinkedIn, find their email with one there's a bunch of email funding tools. And you'll be surprised that these people will definitely reply to you it's exact again same thing I've done a million dollar weekend where I look for people on GoodReads, TikTok, LinkedIn that people like you're reaching out to me while I'm like, Dude, you're the future. And they're excited. And it's, it's a lot easier to work with them. And I don't put too much pressure on how they do it in the beginning, because I just wanna see if it's gonna work. And if it's close to it, if you make even a few sales like, okay, cool. Now let's try it again.
And maybe we'll get maybe we'll start putting a template where, hey, I'd love to have make sure you have this within the first 30 seconds. And you do these certain things that now the team, I mean, Erica, and Megan, they run this program, they have all that kind of like contract and stuff. But in the beginning, just just test to see if it's working. Right again, test it, then invest it.
I love it. Great mantra, simple advice. But again, so effective. I really liked the idea of just sample testing things like it really is important for finding like what works for you. These tips have all been amazing. Thank you so much for sharing, like your full experience around testing and investing million dollar ideas in your business. And I love that you added the nuances of not everything always works or not everything works the first time or it may take time for you to really understand where this fits into your business. But this has been incredibly helpful to wrap up our case study on these $5 million ideas, I kind of have more of like a it's like a hot take question for you. How do you discern? Because you are obviously an ideas person, many entrepreneurs are how do you discern between ideas to actually take quick action on like you recommend in the book, and ideas that are simply distractions? How do you discern between those two things?
Do you have a specific example from yourself? Is that why you ask that?
I don't. I'm just kind of curious, like how you how you filter through all the ideas that are probably raining in your brain all day?
Yeah, and I don't say that as an insult. I hope you didn't take it that way. It's more or less do I like doing a live like let's do a real one. So how to discern between a distraction? And something that's moving is very straightforward to me, which is, what's your outcome? What's the goal you're aiming for? What's the goal you're looking for? And then is this moving you towards that. So let's give a specific example.
So at AppSumo, let's say we're trying to get new customers, so a certain amount of new buyers and a certain amount of new buyer revenue. So brand new people that have never heard of us. And let's say we want to get 100 of them. And so you can try a few different things out. So you can try Instagram, you can post an Instagram, and then you have a link that's in the bio in your description. And after a certain period of time, you can say alright, is this actually driving sales? And for us? It's not at all like we don't do Instagram. You know what else? We don't we don't do Twitter at all. I don't even know if we've posted on Twitter in a while.
Lots of people leaving Twitter, so not alone.
Yeah, I mean, yeah. What I'm trying to recommend for other people out there, though, is, a lot of times it's you do these things because you think you're supposed to do these things. But if you actually take a step back and say, Well, my goal is this and then look at the things you're doing and say which ones actually. And again, it's hard because this is the boring stuff. But this is the stuff that matters. And it says which of these things actually is driving new buyers into AppSumo. So for AppSumo, it is not Instagram, it is not Tik Tok, it is not Twitter. It's not really even LinkedIn. So you don't see us there at all.
And we did notice those sponsoring Video Creators that's really working, we did notice that I have a course. But really now it's the book we're selling the book, I think it was, I don't know, it'd be available there. But we're selling the book at a discount compared to what you can buy on Amazon. And we kind of think that maybe even though we're losing money on the sale, those customers could be really valuable.
That's another kind of interesting one. So what your your you have to step take a step back on, what's my goal? What are the different activities or strategies I'm doing around these goals and try not to have too many and try to sort them in what order you think they'll be most impacted. And then based on the result, then you have to make sense. What I've noticed for most entrepreneurs that haven't had a lot of success yet is they're just doing too many things that are not working, working towards the goal that they want for themselves.
And to be clear, it doesn't have to be million dollar business. It could be 1000 dollar business, it could be 100 dollar business. It could be whatever it is you want. But they're just doing a lot of things and not stopping. And the things that are working, like this video ambassador, which we tested with a spreadsheet, Google Docs, everyone can use it for free, tested it and gender 23. I think now we have six people plus working on it. It does I don't think I don't know if it's in the millions yet. But it's close to a million dollars a month, I think in revenue. And that was just a test we did a year ago. But again, we're not doing these other areas. And I think that's a really hard part for most people, including ourselves. Like we definitely get like I'm supposed to be tweeting, are you?
So I think it's a distraction when it's not moving towards where you want to be.
Yeah, that's a great filter to use so many wonderful gems. Honestly, I just I love like I said like a million times. I just love hearing how your brain works and how you think through these problems. And thank you. I hope for our listeners today you've got at least one new idea, maybe a million dollar idea of your own that you can implement or test tested. Investors know what to say. So if you do, please make sure that you follow up with it. send him an email, send him a DM, tell him what you tried and and we'd love to hear the updates on that.
So also, if you haven't yet bought million dollar weekend, it truly is one of my favorite business books that I've read in a long time. So doesn't matter what stage of business you're in, I think you can always learn from the way an accomplished founder approaches business. And that's really what I'm taking away from million dollar weekend. So we'll drop the link to order that below in the show notes. Nowhere else do you want to send our people to connect with you?
MillionDollarWeekend.com
Perfect.
And can join the newsletter, hit reply to me, and I'll say hi.
Awesome. Yes, let him know you've heard him on Cubicle to CEO. Thanks, Noah. Really appreciate your time.
Thanks for having me.
If you enjoyed our chat with Noah Kagan today, I invite you to join us inside the C-Suite, our annual membership for small business CEOs. Noah is actually going to be coming to our membership on February 22, for a private dream mentor asked me anything Q&A group chat. So this is not like your typical zoom call. We're not getting together on Zoom. This is going to be a text based group chat where no one's going to be available for 45 minutes to answer any questions top of mind that we didn't cover in today's interview, or that you're just curious about.
So if you want to chat with an eight figure CEO, and ask him anything on your mind, then all you have to do is join the C-Suite before February 22. And you'll have access to this AMA group chat. No is the first of many dream mentors that we're going to be bringing into the C-Suite this year. So I'm very excited for you all to meet him and have the chance to chat with him directly inside our group chat.
Also, if you like this bonus episode, we are releasing bonus episodes all year long on our private podcast for our C-Suite members. So if you want to hear more of these bonus style episodes more behind the business solo episodes with myself as well. We are releasing around two new bonus episodes a month on our private podcast so make sure again that you join the C-Suite to get access to that the link to join the C-Suite will be below in the show notes or you can go to EllenYin.com/CSuite that spelled CSUITE
