BFA: Constuction & Demolition Department / Dept. of Appeals & Hearings

    2:00PM Mar 19, 2025

    Speakers:

    Keywords:

    Construction and demolition

    budget deliberations

    Detroit residents

    health and safety

    demolition pipeline

    residential demolitions

    commercial demolitions

    blight court

    administrative appeals

    community outreach

    property stabilization

    fire insurance escrow

    senior programming

    automated demolition

    public engagement.

    Blight violations

    ticket issuance

    property liens

    collections agency

    garnishments

    community engagement

    hearing process

    revenue increase

    compliance

    notification timeliness

    language access

    community blight courts

    demolition budget

    emergency demolitions

    property contamination.

    Good morning, everyone. We will now call to order the expanded budget Finance and Audit standing committee for the purposes of our budget deliberations. And Madam Clerk, please call the roll council

    member Scott Benson. Council member Fred der Hall, the third council member, Letitia Johnson, Council Member Gabriella Santiago Romero, present. Council member Mary waters present. Council member Angela Whitfield Callaway,

    Council Member Callaway did indicate she will not be present today for all of our budget deliberations.

    Clerk will So note. Council member Coleman, a young the second council president pro tem James Tate. Council President, Mary Sheffield, present, Madam Chair, you have a quorum. All

    right. Thank you. There being a quorum. Present. We are in session, and we will start with our construction and demolition department. All of the representatives that are here today, please join us at the table. You

    and good morning to everyone. When you are ready to begin, just make sure the microphone is on by pressing the bottom it will turn green and director counts, if you want to start off the floor is yours.

    Good morning, everyone I am group executive counts. Lawan counts over the construction and building operations unit, and I'm going to turn it over to the new director of construction and demolition.

    Okay, good morning. My name is Tim pelzolo. I'm the director of the construction the construction and demolition

    department. Good morning. Regina Greer, Deputy CFO for odfs, the Office of Department of Financial Services.

    Through the Chair, we would like to be able to presentation, talk to you a little bit about the work we do with construction and demolition department and our people. Our mission is to promote the health, safety and quality of life of Detroit residents and the people of Detroit through the stabilization, stabilization and elimination of lighted structures, as well as the maintenance and improvement of city assets. How do we do that? Well, we stick to our main pillars, which are dependability, being data driven and deliver. We want to communicate openly and transparently about what we're going to do, when we're going to do it, and how we're going to do it. And we want you to see that with through the data, the maps and any other tools that we can provide. And in the end, we know that results matter. Getting Things Done for Detroiters is how we measure our service, a little bit about our organization. We do have a deputy director, and we have eight divisions, which I would like to go through a little bit and talk about what each one of those divisions does on a day to day basis in service of Detroit. First, we have the planning and strategy division. It's a small team that does most of our coordination with the finance department, but also, in particular the office of contracting and procurement to prepare scopes of services, prepare documentation for the bid process, walking projects through the bid process and then issuing notices to proceed to the various contractors that we have next we have our environmental due diligence team. This is the first of our teams that are actual boots on the ground. These people work with residents as well as our contractors to make sure that work is done safely, quickly, efficiently and properly. Next we have our Field Operations Division. This is our second set of boots on the ground, these people also work with residents as well as contractors to make sure that demolitions occur safely and efficiently and properly in accordance with all the applicable rules and regulations. We have our compliance team. These are our in office staff who review all of the various data and documents that are produced by our contractors to make sure that they have performed the work in accordance with the scope of services, as well as all applicable rules and regulations. We have our data GIS team who helps us manage the vast amount of data that we collect and also produce, but also prepares that data for consumption by all the various stakeholders the Detroit, whether it's residents you the City Council, as well as the administration and other city department. Next, we have our vacant property stabilization team. These are again boots on the ground, people in the field who help us secure vacant and open structures. If you are familiar with the clear board program under Prop n, these are the teams that actually go out and install the clear board on those vacant structures and help us secure other vacant structures around the city. Next is our Capital Management Team. This is a small group of very talented people who are in charge of managing capital projects, improvements to city assets, whether it's something like recreation center or police station, fire station, these are the people that help manage those projects. Work with contractors to make sure that those improvements are done on time and on budget. We have our facilities management team. These are the trades people who help us maintain our city assets, more than 140 city assets across the city. These people work tirelessly, I can assure you, to make sure that all of our city assets are in a good state of good repair, and they're valuable member of our team. Next, I'd like to talk about a little bit of our production, what we've done over the past few years, particularly in terms of demolition. I'll start there on the residential side, you can see that we had a significant ramp up of demolition activity in with the passing of Prop N, we've done a number of demolitions to this point. We're approaching our 8000s demolition soon. We'll get we'll get there later this year. So far this year, we've done approximately 1220

    demolitions, and we're pushing that upwards.

    You can see the breakdown there by Prop N and also general fund. The general fund demolitions are generally the emergency demolitions, the ones that need to come home, come down immediately. The breakdown by plan demolitions, those are demolitions that require abatement prior to the demolition versus the emergency demolitions. On the right, those numbers are there for you to review on the screen and then talk quickly about our commercial demolitions. Our commercial demolition program was relatively small post COVID and into the early part of the 20, 2020s but you can see with the implementation of the ARPA program, we significantly increased the number of commercial demolitions that we were doing throughout the city. The breakdown between planned commercial demolitions and then emergency demolitions is on the next slide again. Plan demolitions are those that require abatement prior to the demolition. Emergency demolitions are those that have an order from the building official that require an immediate action because of some sort of structural instability that requires them to be demolished immediately. We get down to what remains of our remaining demolition pipeline, particularly on the residential side. That's where I want to focus. We have a total of 979 properties in the residential demolition pipeline. Of those, we have funding for 829 of those. Most of those 829 properties are funded through the what remains of Prop n, and then the balance is really what we hope to address through the the budget allocation about 150 properties overall for fiscal year 26 we're projecting about 300 Emergency demolitions. That's residential, I should be specific, 10 commercial commercial emergency demolitions, and then 125 planned residential demolitions of the 150 demolitions that we currently have in the pipeline. We do suspect that a number of those will shift to emergencies at some point, and that's why those numbers don't exactly line up. We also deal with polls of any kind, if there's an interest by a potential buyer who has a viable redevelopment plan, will pull those properties from the pipeline, usually give them back to the land bank, so that the interested person can rehabilitate and then occupy or sell those properties. On the stabilization side, the data points for our activities going back to fiscal year 22 are in the next slide of the presentation. As you can see, our board up team and our stabilization team is exceptionally busy. They're a very talented group of people. And if you ever have an opportunity to go out and see one of our stabilizations or our board ups in action, I highly recommend it, because it is quite a production, and it's amazing what they're able to accomplish in such a short period of time. At this point, I'd like to turn it over to group executive counts for a discussion of the facilities section.

    So we wanted to give you kind of an overview of where our or how our work orders have progressed. As many of you probably remember, we had through executive order facilities in the capital team transition into the demolition department at the time, and we became the construction and demolition department. And so in 2022

    we only reported about 1100

    completed work orders. Well, that was because of that transitioning period. We quickly realized that it was necessary for us to be able to accurately report the amount of work orders that this team was completing. Because for us, we call them the ninjas of the city, because a lot of time when the need arises for them, they come in, they get the work taken care of, and they're gone, and people usually don't know that they've even been there. So we felt it necessary to be able to accurately report the volume of work and services that they provide to the other civil servants throughout the city. So in 23 we actively began tracking all of those work orders. And we're at we were at 4100 completed work orders at that time. And of course, in 2024 we began to shift our operations to not only capture those, but move forward and do all of the more preventative maintenance items, as well as ensuring that we were capturing all of our contractor services as well too. So our numbers increased as as well. And we're 50. We were at 50 520 2524 I'm sorry, in FY, 25 however, we are currently at about 4900 and we're trending to be closer towards the 7000 mark, because we are not. We haven't even gotten into the seasonal transition time, and that's a big time for the team, when they start to bring comfort stations online and transition all of the outdoor features, where there's splash pads or the outdoor pool at Brennan, all of those efforts will still have to be captured as well, but that for US is a show of all of the efforts that we are performing for the citizens as well as for our our fellow civil servants as well. Now the reflective costs in FY 24 that team actually generated about $9.3 million in repair costs. And then currently we are about 6.1

    so in FY 26 we're requesting CDD is requesting 7.3 million in non personal funding. And this equates to about 51,000 per asset, which, when you compare that against General averages for operating costs for facilities between 41,050 2000 it's really significantly low, especially considering the fact that our properties range in age from zero to 126 years old. And so that cost, that average cost of 41 to 52,000 is typically a 10,000 square foot general use building. It's not a swimming pool, it's not a gym, it's definitely not 126 year old facility. And so we are operating very lean in the facilities union unit, because we understand that it's necessary for the city to maintain its fiscal responsibility. So we do all that we can with as little as we can in order to, you know, keep the buildings up and going. We also have the added responsibility now for the DDOT facilities as well, and so those will also now be represented more accurately in our work order reporting. And that additional cost to our budget is about 2.9 million, and that is a revenue offset from the trans the transportation fund. So that is not an increased cost to the city.

    That concludes

    our presentation, we are definitely open for questions, of course, and as always, this group is available for questions and any additional information towards whatever this body needs in order for you to have that familiarity with the group as well.

    Okay, thank you so much for all the work that you all do, and thank you so much for the presentation. We will start with questions from my colleagues, and I will start with council member Johnson.

    Thank you, Madam President, and good morning to you all. Is it? Director Palazzolo? I'm sure, yes. Ma'am. Okay, very good. Thank you for for the presentation. You kind of breeze through it. So I do want to get a little bit more information on how it is determined which property is going to be demolished? And I asked that question because I believe it was the summer of last year, there was a property that had been previously on the demolition list, and presumably it was taken off the demolition list because it was actively listed as a property on the Detroit land bank authority's website, I received a text message from a neighbor saying that the property was starting to fall down and it was still actively on the land banks website. So can you speak to how the determination is made on what is to be demolished, what we're saving and how that entire process works through

    the chair I can, I can certainly start, start an answer. And if group executive counts wants to step in and and speak a little as well, she can obviously do so. But we work with our partner agencies, primarily the Detroit Land Bank Authority to identify properties for the pipeline. The land bank helps us, obviously identify a good number of those properties through their inventory team, and then they assign those properties to us through our tracking system, which is Salesforce. And then, once that property is assigned to us in Salesforce, we essentially take over and move that property forward through the pipeline. If, upon inspection, we find that a property has some evidence of rehabilitation, or if there's some evidence of activity that may suggest someone has an interest in the property, other than demolition, we obviously return back to the land bank with that evidence, and we confer on the property and property and make a determination at that point, every property has its own unique story, certainly. And this particular property, I'm happy to discuss and share and go over whatever the details you might have with whatever we might have, and come to a shared understanding of of this property story, because they all have them, certainly. But we obviously work hand in hand with the land bank and their team, as well as the building department team. When there is a private party that is interested in a rehabilitation or purchase of a property for the purposes of rehabilitation, we work with those teams to make sure that those interested parties are provided an opportunity to to move forward,

    I just would like through the Chair, I just would like to add that those properties exist. There are properties that sometimes the land bank does feel that they can renovate or salvage, and then as time progresses, that condition changes. When we do come across those properties, should they be presented to us? We take a look at them for whoever is filing the complaint. We want to make sure that we're providing the correct service, and sometimes it does require an additional look. I mean, we will advocate for those properties to be inspected by BC bills and safety might determine this property really should come down, and then we'll move forward with that recommendation back to the land bank as well. It's it's really on a per case basis, the land bank makes a general decision about which properties they feel are deemed to be demolition candidates, and we move forward with that understanding. But the thing when we get into the field, the situations in the field dictate really what the formal or the final decision will be.

    Thank you for that. So as a person who has been advocating to save as many properties in District Four that we can because we've had so many demolished, I appreciate that. But I'm really trying to understand whether or not there is a building inspector who determines the soundness of the structure to be able to have it be a candidate for rehabilitation, as opposed to demolition. And I'm not certain that I heard that. I'm not sure who within the Detroit Land Bank Authority makes the determination on whether it is can be saved or if it should be a cam candidate for demolition. So I'm just trying to clearly understand that, just to make sure that an actual inspector who understands the foundation of the property is saying, Okay, this is a candidate, or this house is a candidate to go into, back into the pipeline for rehabilitation, as opposed to demolition.

    Through the Chair I there is a percentage, and it's a fairly large percentage of those land bank properties already have ODMs placed on them. So that means that they have been inspected by buildings of safety, and the determination has been that it should be an order demo. We can provide you that information about what percentage of them actually did have them or not. Okay,

    thank you. And I will would love to speak with you offline about this particular property, so I'd be happy to share the address, and I think there may be a couple others that residents are concerned about, the condition of them and the status that they're in. My other question is relative to the environmental impact, and so we all know that our almost decade or century old homes were built with a lot of what we now consider to be contaminants, and so I am wondering if you all do any outreach, providing information to residents as properties within their near vicinity are being demolished, recognizing and I'm hoping that the contractors are going through the process to abate any of the contaminants appropriately. But is there any information outreach to residents to inform them of demolitions occurring near them and how they can keep themselves safe and healthy, as these properties are being demolished

    through the through the chair our contractors are required to distribute door hangers to every surrounding property within 400 feet of a target site. That's regardless of whatever stage of the process it's in. The contractors need to distribute those materials to every home within 400 feet. That's the order. Obviously, we want to follow up with all of those sites to make sure that those door knockers are those, those door hangers are, are on those on those properties. And contractors are required to take date and time stamp photos of the door hangers that they've that they've placed on those properties. Additionally, our field team is out there checking to make sure that where they're still left on the house, that they're there as evidence that those, those door hangers have been distributed. So our field team, please, rest assured, they are tenacious, and they will find a contractor who doesn't meet the 400 foot requirement. I i would love for you to meet some of our team members, because they, they will not hesitate to call a contractor directly and say, I did not see the door hanger at 123, Main Street. I need your I need your photo that that door hanger was out there. So we have an excellent field team, and they are very diligent about making sure that people stay informed. I would also, and I would also say, obviously, it's not the perfect platform, obviously, and it's not the way most people, or every I will say, everyone consumes information, but I would always direct people to our website. Our list of properties in the in the pipeline is, is updated consistently.

    Thank you for that, and thank you for answering my next question, which was relative to the department actually verifying that that's being done. Thank you. I have additional questions that will send over to the department. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President, thank

    you so much. Member Johnson, if a clerk would note member der Hall and member Pro Temp Tate are both present. That was on. O, thank you. So just, can you speak a little bit more about and I've had this situation happen a few times, one more recently, and we'll send over the exact property address, but a situation where someone is purchasing a property from the city, it's in total disrepair, it needs a significant amount of investment. They start to make those investments in the property, and then they get threats and notices of tickets and possible demolition when they've already invested a significant amount of money into the property. So what is the notification and communication there, I think, and a lot of times, these people feel as if the city is not working with them, understanding that we do want to see some improvements to the property, but they are making investments, and then they start get tickets and threats of demolition. So what is the notification and process and what are you looking forward to see, as far as investments in the property as well?

    So through the Chair, thank you for the questions. We obviously want anyone with an interest in a property to have that opportunity to see that property return to a habitable use. For sure, our field teams as well as our contractors, are on site dozens of times before the site is actually demolished. So there are a number of field visits that happen, and if the interested party does encounter any one of those people, there are very clear communication channels through which we receive notice of someone's interest, and at that point, we coordinate with, usually, the building department to make sure that the interested party has you know, first of all, is is aware of of the order to demolish in most cases, but also is aware of the proper process to receive permits, apply for permits, and all the people that they need to contact to get those inspections done to bring the property back up to habitable use.

    Okay? So I think in this situation, and I know this person personally, definitely a good actor, someone who wants to do great for Detroit. I'm going to give you this particular address again. They purchased the property from the city. I think the lack of communication is missing. I know you said there's multiple attempts to do so, but they've invested a significant amount. And this is not just a one case situation. I've heard this more times in Detroit that this happens, and so I'm not sure why. There was a determination that the property needs to be demolished if, in fact, there is a significant investment going into the property. I'm not sure a group exec, you had your your hand raised,

    yes, through the chair. I do believe that I'm aware of which property you're talking about. It it happens. What we what I can assure you, is that the department has taken a very firm position on in the event that it's the determination for demo has been lifted, we stop immediate activity. We are in agreement where, if someone is has a very viable interest in a property, and they are doing the right things in order to restore the property, we have no there's no interest for us there. We would much rather have those buildings in place than for them to come down. In this particular situation, a lot of times, purchases, sales are made, and those people who are making or those individuals who are making those purchases are not aware that there's already a standing order on the facility, and so that it's kind of where the the cloudiness starts. It already was in a in a position to be demolished. The department itself, the CDD does not necessarily place those orders on those properties. Those orders are placed by buildings of safety. CDD executes a service. At that time when we arrive and start to begin our pre demolition activities, that's usually when those owners come out and they're like, Hey, we didn't, we didn't, we weren't aware. But it happens at that point. We direct them through the process. Our team members have been instructed to make sure that the owners, when they have those concerns, they're funneled the way that they need to go if they really are truly interested in saving their properties. We advocate for that to happen on their behalf. If the process isn't followed, however, we still have this property that has this order on it, and so there has to be some type of, you know, action that takes place. Either the private, private owner has to take the steps forward to remediate, or we have to do our job. And it sounds

    like that's what's going to be happening in this case. And I know you are aware of it, but it when, when people are purchasing the property, it seems like they should know at the onset, and it sounds like that's not taking place, correct? And that that come from the building authority, that they need to be letting people know as they're purchasing the properties that this was, you know, set to be demolished or whatever, because when people buy the properties, they should know what they're getting themselves into

    through the chair. Unfortunately, it's really the responsibility of the seller to tell the purchaser, right? This is the current condition. If that not does not happen. I mean, we've been actively trying to educate the public, like, if you purchase a property, commercial, residential, you should reach out to buildings and safety and ensure that there's no orders listed on that property. Okay,

    okay, so we will work with you on on that. That was one of the concerns that I had. And the second thing is, if you can provide an update on the amount of fire insurance escrow fund monies that have been transferred to the city for reimbursement for past demolition activities that was not touched on in the presentation.

    Through the Chair, I would turn to finance to answer that question

    through the chair. I don't have the full history of the FIE funds, but for fiscal 25 we've transferred approximately $6 million over to demolition for them to use for additional funding. Okay?

    And how are we? How are is the progress moving though with just reimbursement for fire, escrow, damage, things of that sort. Are we recouping most of the cost

    through the chair? I will have to get you that specific detail regarding the cost versus the demolition cost versus the FIU revenue.

    Okay, all right. Well, we have questions on that as well. And then lastly, my last question is just on the vacant property stabilization slide that you mentioned regarding board ups, I still run into residents who talk about homes that are not boarded up. And I know you've listed how many you have to date. Where are we with the requests that stand open with people who have put in requests for board ups. And do we have enough funding to cover those? I'm not sure what money we're using. Is it ARPA dollars, Bond funding, but where are we to date with addressing the requests that are still out there? Through

    the Chair we can get you that information, that data. I don't have it immediately available, but I can't tell you it is not ARPA funded. It is general fund. It is blight funded,

    correct. Okay, all right. We're looking forward to seeing those responses, and we will continue with our questions, and I will go now to pro temp Tate.

    Thank you. Thank you, Madam President, thank you all for being here. I want to make sure that I because I missed a part of the I missed the presentation. So you may have touched on this, but I know that it indicates that the proposed budget shows an increase of 8.6 million in your area, but it also shows a decrease in FTEs from 159 to 146 so not a crazy amount, but it's a decrease in employees. It's also been stated that, you know, demolitions are winding down. I know this is not just about demolitions, it's demolitions and construction. So can you talk a bit about the the increase in proposed budget, but decrease in FTEs, and again, the conversation that has been out there, or the message that has been out that demolitions are winding down, talk to us a little bit about reconciling that information

    through the Chair. I appreciate the specificity of the question. I thank you, and we'll gladly provide more detail in writing. For sure, I think I can turn some of it over to finance, to answer, but from an operational perspective, I can obviously say that we are approaching the tail end of the demolition program as we know it. We're, we're, we're down to a little over 100 some properties in the residential pipeline that we have planned for demolition. Obviously, with the wind down of demolition there, there will need to be some some changes to our staffing. There's no doubt about that. But to your point, we we provide more services than just the demolition program. The vacant property stabilization program is obviously one that we hope continues for a very long time, and as long as it's necessary, we'll happily provide that service. But also in the maintenance of our city facilities, as group executive counts had alluded to earlier, we have a number of buildings that are exceptionally aged, and we're doing our best to make sure that they are in operational capacities and positions, and we we need those staff, even staff that may be working on demolition now, to help us bolster those services, to make sure that they can employ properties are stabilized, but also that our city facilities are operating in an efficient capacity,

    in terms of, again, the justification I missed the presentation. I apologize for that, but increase in the budget, decrease in

    and to that specific point, I would turn over the question of the increase to finance

    through the chair, the total increase for construction and demolition is really $11 million for the year for fiscal 26 that primarily relates to additional facilities cost approximately $800,000 plus ten million directly In the Blight fund. And that increase is primarily due to additional supportive services for abatements, board ups, the field inspections and the environmental expenses. And that difference between the positions that you specifically asked about is 13 positions, but that is because in the bond fund, we've reduced it by 13 because they were primarily tasks, and moved those over to the Blight fund. And there was a duplication of positions during that fiscal 25 budget. So this is really right sizing the specific positions in the department.

    Thank you for that explanation. We'll have additional questions that we'll be submitting group exec counts, I want to thank you for the situation that you personally went out to in district one, addressing the issue with the neighbor who had a unique situation, I will say. But with that, without putting this person's information all out there, how does something like that happen if departments are truly communicating on the front end during a potential demo and then post as well?

    I think through the chair that particular incident was it was a failure on our part, I mean that that's the reality of it. Once, once I had an opportunity to actually visually inspect the situation, we should have made a different judgment call, and so I don't have really a much better answer for you. Besides that, as far as how we got to that point, I do believe it's a one off. We typically make the right decision when we have those situations and we are coordinating with the right departments. We coordinated with the right department on that call as well. We just made the wrong judgment call. I don't think that there would have been a different call that would have been made, except we would have known that right off the bat that we were going to do the repair that's that's where the the wrong decision was made. But like I said, typically, we make the right judgment call, and we do make sure that we coordinate with all of the respectful departments, because we don't want those types of situations to happen. That that one, we just got caught. We caught making, caught making the wrong decision.

    Is there any I know in police? In the police department, there's, you know, in service training that takes place where you take folks off the street, so to speak, to be trained, even if it's just to refresh them on certain things, to make those right decisions, even when, on paper, the nuts and bolts say this, but that's why we have humans in our AI doing this to make the right decision. So is there, is there any ongoing technology, or, excuse me, training that takes place to ensure that those types of right decisions are made, and it doesn't have to take a call from a council member and multiple failed calls to departments and to the Department of neighborhoods to be honest with you about these issues, but a call to the council members office and then again, graciously, you taking that call, going out And fixing the problem immediately and personally. Is there any training? Is there any conversation that happens even after a situation like that? Because if the resident hadn't called my office, she'd still be in that same horrible situation. So the question is, are there others out there that haven't come our way that need some assistance in getting to you or to whomever, so just talk to us a bit about that training, ongoing training and service. So

    through the Chair, I think in this instance, the problem was the more structured training the team was leading, by the book, they were following all of the rules. And what happened was we we lost kind of our customer service aspect of it. We do have our own annual type of training where we have increased our customer service guidance to our team members, and this is exactly one of the ones where we we needed that increased training and support, because people follow the rules. The book says we're going to do this, and they did what the book said, but you did not capture in the human aspect of it, which was, would you have wanted your house to be left that way? And so those comments, we had our own on site training, because I did not go alone when I went to go inspect the location, we took the entire team with us, and we walked through what this should look like and how we should respond. So we did make it a teachable moment in the moment, but this time, we won't have these types of situations moving forward, because we do know that we have to layer in the human aspect of it. They followed the rules, they did what they were supposed to do, but we just didn't capture, you know, like I said, the human side.

    Thank you so much. And as mentioned, I will be providing additional questions in writing. Thank you. Thank you, Madam President,

    thank you pro tem member, Mary waters.

    Mary waters, sorry, that's all good.

    Thank you, Madam President. Let me just first say that I do have some problems with the all of these dollars coming out of our general fund. It's a little scary for me, considering we're not going to have the type of money that we've that we've had for the last few years. And so I'm I hesitate when it comes to that, but let me just also say I'm looking forward to the new recreation centers reopening here, around around the city, our Senior Center, and then I want to discuss with you at some point senior programming at the various rec centers. That is something that

    we had discussed a few months ago,

    but then there was some changes made, and so I guess it just kind of felt fell apart so but I'll be in touch with the on that. So my question is, why are the emergency vendors residential properties, demolitions? Why are they cheaper than, say, the regular ones, the emergency ones are cheaper than the regular ones. Why is that? I want to understand that

    through the chair generally, the answer is, because those properties are not abated prior to demolition. Yeah, so there's an efficiency in a manner of speaking, when emergency demolitions happen, where the amount of time and labor spent to abate a property before demolition does not occur. And so, generally speaking, that is, the answer is that the abatement is not possible. It's not feasible because the structure is so unsound that it is unsafe to enter.

    Okay.

    Then my second question,

    what can we do to to shift responsibility of the of the land bank owned vacant properties, stabilization to the dlba and this budget, as opposed to the taxpayers? Is there anything, since they have money themselves? How? Because right now, like I said, I'm concerned about our dollars. So is there anything we can do to shift that burden

    through the chair? I'll gladly defer that question to group executive counts. Who has responsibilities for the land banks? That is, that is certainly a question beyond

    me through the chair. I

    I do believe that there's going to be even if you offset the responsibilities onto the land bank, I believe that our team is able to do that work far faster, less expensive than any outside contractor, and they have that consistency underneath their belt, where they are familiar with what they're getting themselves into, so they're just able to just do it better. I don't believe that there's going to be an organization that we would be able to pay who's going to be able to come in and do what we do, but there's definitely something that we could possibly have a conversation with the land bank about, but I just don't think there would be really a cost savings in that regard.

    Well, it could be if they paid you, then in that case,

    through the chair there, there is a certain portion, and I mean, I have to defer that to to the finance team to actually give you the details on but there is a certain portion where we are kind of upset by them,

    right? Okay, I'd like to know more about that when we get a chance. Okay, all right, then, thank you, Madam President,

    okay, thank you council member Benson.

    Thank you. Good morning. Thank you all for being here today. Just a couple of questions, and this is something that often confuses others, not just myself, when we talk to the community, is the difference between the DBA and the construction demolition department? What is the difference here? Seems like there's an overlap of responsibilities

    through the Chair. Yeah. Again, different group executive through the chair.

    The DBA, which is the Detroit building authority, is going to handle more of those large scale construction projects, mostly new, whereas construction and demo, we are going to be high, high volume or high cost improvements, so major system replacements, new HVACs, roof replacements, those are capital in nature and too big For the facilities unit to handle, but it is definitely something that we, you know, we need construction expertise in order to handle. We typically are going to be in the three to $5 million range. As far as what we're responsible for is

    the $5 million the bright line, or could it shift into 7 million? Maybe we'll do a 10 million this year. Where is that bright line? How you make that determination through

    the chair? It's really going to be if it's a rec center or not. Typically, our department is going to be responsible for recreation centers. We're not going to usually get into, like a new police station that would be a DBA Initiative, or a new bus terminal that would be a DBA project. So we typically are going to be new recreation centers and pretty much renovation for everything else, okay?

    And then thank you. And then when you talk about management and maintenance of buildings, you get the number $51,000 obviously, the benchmarking ordinance is really there to ensure that we know the operating cost of our properties. So does the $51,000 include the operating costs of our properties. And then what is your department doing to ensure that when you're doing construction projects on city assets. How are we working to reduce the energy consumption of those properties, ie, become more efficient, tighten the envelope, to reduce our greenhouse gas output and reduce our expenses when it comes to operating properties? So

    through the chair the 51,000 does not include operating costs. It is just state of good repair. And what we do on our capital projects are is ensure that we are doing the most efficient things that we can. Our major concern right now is HVAC systems. That's for us, that's our greatest loss. And so when we do a new system, we're trying to make sure that we're using the most efficient system. But we're also trying to ensure that we have building management systems in place as well. Because we have a very small staff on the facilities team. We're only budgeted for about 40 people, and you talk about 40 people over 140 locations, you're not going to be able to be everywhere, adjusting the heat right. So the building operation systems allow us that opportunity to control the heat, make sure that the occupants have their level of comfort, but it also allows us, like I said, to manage how much usage is taking place in those buildings as well. Okay, and

    just want to say thank you. You were one of the decision makers that made it with us to Minneapolis with the green Task Force and hoping that that experience and what they're doing and what we learned there around property management and becoming more efficient with our properties translates to your staff now. Thank you. No

    thank you through the chair, it was a very moving experience to see that it was able, that a municipality was able to make those firm decisions about what they were going to do for us, what we lacked was just taking that step forward. And so coming back after that trip, we actively started taking the steps forward to do what we could in order to make all of our locations a lot more energy efficient. But it's, it's like an apple you can't eat at whole so we've been taken bites at it at a time. All right, thank

    you. Thank you. Member Benson, member Durham. Thank

    you and good morning to you all.

    Don't have many questions. Did want to just talk about some of the great things that you guys have done? I do want to give a special shout out to you for really engaging our returning citizens as well plugging them in to a lot of these projects, and it has provided a tremendous amount of opportunity for them. So thank you. Did want to say, because it's one of our last budget hearings, when I first came in here, there was a building that sat on Burlingame in my district, and there was a young lady who was found deceased in that building, and we didn't know she was in there for over two years. And one of the first buildings I saw come down, working together with you, Director come and it brought a lot of closure to that family. They recently did like a TV series. I don't know if you saw that, but they they said that was just something that was really important that stuck out to them. So I did want to put that on the record. And I talked to the family, and they told me to make sure that we let you know that they are forever grateful for that. That being said, we talk about abandoned buildings sitting I want to shift the discussion a little bit. You know, when we talk about demos, and I know, I'm sure many of my colleagues, we hear about this, can we talk there are some abandoned schools here in the city of Detroit. What is those? What are? What do those conversations look like relative to demo? Are we trying to work and develop a plan where we can really get with DPS for some of those buildings? Who are that we just can't say some of those buildings are sitting right there, right there, before they become an emergency demo. What's the what are those conversations like

    through the chair? We have really developed a very good relationship with dpscd over the last two years, and it's intentional around the vacant properties that they they currently owned the city. At the time, we had our own about 33 vacant school buildings that were in some level of demolition activity. We still carry about 19 that we do need to have a plan to address. But then there's also the group that DPS, CD has as well. We have had several emergencies that we were able to take down on their behalf, and they reimbursed us for. And we do have about six properties right now that we're going to work on for them as well. But it's, it's a matter of, there is a there's a cost to it. And so while they have to establish where they're going to get their funding from, we have to do the same for our 19 but if we can't come up with that plan, we also have a we have to establish a plan for, how do we go in and secure those properties as well. So we did have an example of one that we did over on Joy road. I cannot remember the name of the school, but it was joy Road, Linwood area. Can't really remember, but it was an example of how we could get our securing team to actually move forward with securing a commercial property, which is something that they have not done in large scale before, and so that might be what our route is, is to provide that service for all of these locations moving forward, so that we can at least make sure that they're not open to the community.

    And I would just, you know, let it have that conversation about, you know, even sitting down, even if we're not fully doing the demo, but finding a way to to mitigate some of the costs that they have as well. And that's not to say that we want to subsidize their demos, because they are they have their own budget, they have their own board, and they're their district. But as we talk about Neighborhood Stabilization, that's a huge component. I think the school you're talking about is coffee over there. Maybe coffee

    started with the B. I'm sorry, through the chair started with the B. I can't I'll remember.

    Yeah, I know which one you're talking about, but right over I can't think of the name of it now either. But what I would say is our neighbors and our residents there, depending on that follow up question of that 19, how many are able to be rehabbed? Are they all, or do they all need to be demo

    through the chair? We had them slated for the demolition pipeline, but we are already in the process of securing those buildings. Some of them are already secured, but our stabilization team is actually out there in process right now, working on those buildings to protect them to the greatest extent possible from both trespass and the elements, and if that helps stabilize some of those structures for potential redevelopment opportunities, that's

    fantastic, yeah, and I think that's the challenge that we face as well. You know, I seen you guys do a lot of work on board the schools up, and then they get the boards are torn down, and kind of just tagging on there. Is there something more secure that we can board them up? You know, those little, I don't know what they call them when they put them on the windows, those big oh three

    Yes, yeah, the clear boards. So

    we, pardon me, not the clear boards, the

    VPS. Oh, the panel, yeah. Metal panels, yeah.

    So through the Chair, I guess really quickly the VPS. It hasn't been completely effective, but I think what our biggest struggle has been, what as it relates to the schools, is that the windows themselves were of value to people in the past, and a lot of those instances, they've already come in and stolen the windows. So now we're able to go in and actually install the barriers to get in where the average person who would have been going in would not be able to go in anymore. And then the thing of value, which was the reason why the boards were coming on, is gone.

    Love to have more conversation offline, but kind of just working to develop that, I would like to make a motion to put, if it has not been done this entire budget into Executive Session. Any objections,

    hearing none that will be added to our executive session. Thank you very much. That's it okay. Just

    to follow up, you said 19, the city currently owns the remaining work still owned by Detroit Public Schools district.

    No, through the chair, the 19 are what the city of Detroit owns. Okay, I can't think of the number. I think the DPS is like 26 they have additional 26 properties that they need to make a determination about,

    okay, that they currently own them. So I know we had transfer some to the city, and those are the ones that you refer 18 through the chair. That's correct. Plans have been identified. They're just being stabilized through

    the chair. That's correct, alright, thank

    you. Member, young Yes. Thank you.

    Man, Prezi clerk, acknowledge me.

    My knowledge. Clerk was so No,

    all right, on time you got me. I love

    wrestling. Alright, let's talk about, first of all, exit presentation. As always, exit presentation. Let's talk about technology here a little bit. So what are we doing in terms of on the construction side? Has there been discussions since last time we talked about 3d printing at all in terms of houses? Has there been a discussion at all about using automated demolition at all in terms of some of these abandoned buildings? Has there been an analysis in terms of how much is the cost? I know, like, the average automated demolition machine costs about, like $200,000 somewhere within that mark. But it depends on what you're trying to go if you're trying to go with something bigger, if you're trying to go with something smaller, like the Brock, like b, r, O, K, K, it's like $50,000 has there been a discussion about that at all, not just in terms of being able to use it, but also in terms of efficiency and effectiveness, towards your goal of being able to knock down these abandoned buildings so we have a zero abandoned building city. Has there been a discussion about using that type of technology at all, and how much that would cost from your

    end or from our end, through the Chair,

    I'm going to say

    those types of that type of equipment, while it does exist, it needs to be in a more I don't know how to explain it open area, because we do deal in very tight locations, especially in the residential areas, there's a significant amount of risk that could exist. Isn't just something that we're just not willing

    to from the demolition standpoint, it would be, because that's what I think. I think would you use that technology in terms of multiple buildings in one set? I wanted to talk about some like infill or something that's more threats

    so through the chair, ideally, it would have probably been the packer. The Packer plant would have been probably the best location for us to utilize that kind of technology. But the sizing of the equipment that would have been required, that would have probably been in the multi million dollars in order for us to to use it there. So that would probably been the only location there is a possible opportunity. Oh no, there was. We actually, we do a lot of handwork, as opposed to, you know, if we're in situations where it could be, you know, some type of tight confinement. That's about the only thing that we could do. Unfortunately, technology wouldn't be the the methods. It would be more direct, manual demolition efforts. Okay, okay.

    And when you and you mean like, and you don't mean like, God, I forgot what the title was. But like, where you have someone that would actually like be pulling down, like, demolition properties you like, for actual professional call it. It's not it. I don't know if it's it's more wet, wet demo that you're referring to, then, yeah, it's more wet than deconstruction. That's not what you're talking about when you're talking about hand on hand, right, right. No, yeah, yeah. I'm about to say because you're talking about deconstruction, when we can have more people, put people to work, need to stretch. And I remember we had that conversation earlier. We told me that deconstruction is not what you do. So okay, I just want to make so So I understand what you say. So you saying that it's more about the spacing of it that you have you can only use it in specialized services, and so that would probably be more be a better contractually because of how you would use it than it would be if you actually had in house when you only can use it in certain instances, but correct through

    the chair. We don't do any in house demos, um, the only in house contract

    correct,

    okay, and this wouldn't be something that you would see as viable in terms of changing that, because that's what I'm seeing, like, where, like, like, if you had, like, a major project where you had to knock down a whole but because I understand, if you were talking talking about building a neighborhood, I wouldn't suggest that, because you might need like, 1011, printers to do that. I wouldn't the cost of that would be exorbitant. I'm not saying that, but I'm talking about if you were trying to build, like a neighborhood of, like tiny houses or something like that, for people that were making, let's say like 24 it's talking about extreme low income. I'm not talking about houses that would be competitive on the market in any way, shape or form. I'm talking about for people who are living in the, you know, below the poverty line here. Would use that for that purpose, so one you could deal with the housing crisis, but also so you can rebuild these neighborhoods and add the value to the community that you've been doing through your work. It also, I thought it just be better. It'd be easy. It'd be more efficient for you to be able to tear down the buildings that you had if you had a long stream of them, just because one, it would be cheaper for you doing the processes to help you get your goals quicker, like you're trying to achieve. I know you're very goal and metric oriented in terms of that, but I understand what you're saying. Okay, and um, secondly, I wanted to ask you, kind of a little bit of a twofer. One I wanted to ask you, is the construction demolition? Is construction? Are they complete with the work at the Coleman, a young Recreation Center, and do you have any idea when that will be open, especially for the seniors in that area, because I would really appreciate that, because that's what everybody wears me out about when I go to my senior citizen builders, or when I go to the mall or the store or wherever else, I'll be walking out of CVS or somewhere down the parking lot, somebody jump out at me. Yeah, you know my coconut Hot Cheeto. So when do you know when we're going to fix that exactly? And then, on a second note, I also just want to ask you, and then I'll be done here, do we have an understanding of what you have done in terms of the houses that you've demolished in terms of relationship to crime, reduction, in terms of relationship of the property values increased in terms of opportunity, of parks being available because the space that you created. I think that's something that's very important when people start talking about demolition, because they only see it from the aspect of you just knocking down buildings. They don't see it in the property values that people have had because of what you've done. They don't see in terms of the crime reduction and the safety. I think it's crime reduction Through Environmental Design. So those are things that you've really kind of contributed to, that that I've seen. Do we have an analysis of what that is? So I can go tell my constituents while I'm asked about your department, what that is and what you've

    done, oh, through the chair. Let me start with Coleman Young so we are estimating being completed with all of our work and having our inspections and permits, not permits, our certificates of acceptance, by the end of this month, and then we will turn over that location back to the recreation department, or recreation in April. So yes, we have been hearing the concerns about when is young going to reopen? Yes, in April. Date. I don't, because we are just going to turn it back over to the department, and the department will make the determination about when they actually are going to reopen. What are the dates? No, I do understand, then, as it relates to the impact that demolitions have had on both police, fire and recreation spaces. We have done that. We do have that assessment. I The numbers off the top of my head, property values. We do have some general numbers as well. Yes, what I can tell you is that fire has reported they've got, it's something like 30% reduction in fires, and that's really because we've taken out those candidates that are usually the potential candidates for fire. Police has experienced a significant or associated with those particular vacant properties. They've reported on reduction in crime in those particular areas as well. And then there's several projects across the city that we have had a hand in providing demolition services for Joe Louis Greenway being one that has, you know, supported the expansion of those particular outdoor activities because of the demolitions that we perform. So yes, there is impact that demolition provides on other departments that is beyond just removing the blighted structure.

    Okay, excellent. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. I would like to make a motion to move for automated demolition to be moved to Executive Session.

    Any objections hearing, none that action will be taken. Okay, all right, that will conclude all of our questions at this time. We thank you for all the work that you all are doing and looking forward to following up on additional questions or concerns we may have, right. Thank you. Thank you all for being here. Okay, we will now move to our next budget Hearing, which will be from The Department of appeals app.

    And good morning, Director, past July and whenever you all are ready to proceed, the floor is yours. Just make sure your microphone is on. By pressing the bottom, it will turn green, And that indicates that It is on. Okay? I

    The meeting,

    for the delay, it looks like we've got everything situated now, so I'll go ahead and begin Good morning to this honorable body. I appreciate the opportunity to be here today. My name is Julian, past July. I'm the Director of the Department of appeals and hearings. I'm joined by Leticia Perry, my DH colleague, who is providing test technical assistance that I so need. Also joined by the managers of DH, Attorney Joy Lynn hunt and I believe Miss Mika Smith has is in the gallery that's also joined us today, before diving into my presentation, I wanted to thank the CFOs office in particular, Malcolm Walker, Matthew space and Donnie Johnson for their help during this process. I also want to acknowledge and uplift my colleagues at d h this presentation is truly reflection of their hard work and dedication to their job, to the department and to the city. Lastly, I wanted to acknowledge receipt of the LPD questions regarding the DH budget. We did receive those, and we'll be providing written responses to this honorable body as soon as possible. Let's start with who we are. The DH is an independent hearings tribunal that is committed to delivering impartial, timely and efficient services in a fair manner. We operate under state and local law, and we are comprised of two distinct bureaus, our blight court and our administrative appeals division. We're going to begin with blight court, that Bureau is responsible for adjudicating blight violations in the city of Detroit, we provide due process and an opportunity to challenge blight tickets that are issued, and DH has the authority to determine compliance with the city code, state law and uphold fines and penalties. There is a five step process through blight court. The first is the issuance of a ticket that contains the DH hearing date by the ticket issuing agency, number two is the city, and the respondent who received the ticket have the opportunity to present testimony and evidence to support their position at a DH hearing. Number three, the hearing officer makes a determination at that hearing based on the evidence presented, and will issue a judgment not responsible by determination. Responsible by determination are two examples. Number four is respondents can appeal. Responsible by determination judgments to the Third Circuit Court, the Wayne County Circuit Court, and number five DH does take affirmative steps to enforce its judgments after 30 days unpaid and after the mailing of a reminder notice after within 10 days, all of our unpaid judgments are automatically transferred to our collection vendor, looking at numbers for tickets, the number of tickets issued increased by 28,000 over the previous fiscal year. There was an increase of 8000 in tickets adjudicated, and the difference between the adjudicated and issued reflects those tickets that were resolved prior to the hearing, either by the respondent having an admission of responsibility on the part of the property owner prior to the hearing, or tickets that were dismissed by this ticket issuing agency, for example, for compliance, that for revenue, the total amount of judgments for fiscal year 24 was $18.4 million DH collected 6.6 million in fiscal year 24 which was an increase of 1.9 million over fiscal year 23 revenues. This results in an overall collection rate of 36% the second Bureau I would like to introduce is our administrative appeals bureau. It provides appellate review of certain city decisions. The decisions will indicate whether appeal to dH is available. Examples of those decisions would be business license determinations and emergency demolition designations, either the city or the claimant can file an appeal with DH in that situation. Moving on to administrative appeal statistics, while fiscal year 24 shows an overall drop in administrative appeals, we thought it important to provide current fiscal year totals to also show upward trends. The current fiscal year 25 total surpasses fiscal year 24 and is on track to surpass fiscal year 23 as well. Moving on to staffing. For personnel, our total expenditure is an increase of $150,000 over the prior fiscal year. DH, does not have any current vacancies. In fiscal year 26 we will have one vacancy, and that will be the new project manager position. We've included the fiscal year 26 six organization chart for your reference and convenience and again, and it reflects that new position for fiscal year 26 moving on to operational enhancements. DH is proud to report. We have completed our office consolidation project. We vacated suite 124 downstairs and our Customer Service Division is now centralized in suite 1004 so we invite members of the public to engage da H in person on the 10th floor of K Mac suite 1004 we also completed our public facing motion and blight clearance projects that will cover in more detail in the next slide. We reinstituted training and community outreach efforts which cover all three categories and will be ongoing. DH will be submitting a request to extend our collections contract to this honorable body in the coming weeks. And we're also very excited to be proceeding forward with our new court management software solution. The requisition number has been assigned, and we look forward to proceeding through the procurement process. We maintain our future goal of reinstituting community, Blake court, rotating through the council districts. But again, I'd like to cover a little bit more on the public facing improvements we were able to achieve this year in our on our march to community blight court. So the public facing updates include the ability to file motions and blight clearance applications online for the motion to set aside this is a request for a new hearing date. It must be filed within 20 days. And it's important to note, if the respondent is found not responsible at the subsequent hearing date, the bond will be refunded for blight clearances. Da H is the only entity in the city of Detroit that can issue a blight clearance. They are certifications that no outstanding blight ticket fines or fees exist. They're required for permits, certificates of occupancy and compliance, as well as variances contracting with the city, and for individuals or entities that wish to participate in either the Wayne County or Detroit Lion bank auctions. We've added a blight property history option, which is not a formal blight clearance, but will provide a report of outstanding judgments on a property. This is very useful for those looking to either purchase or sell property in the city of Detroit. Instructions and forms for both can be accessed on DHS website, and we've also provided QR codes for your convenience. Moving on to the department's overall budget, expenditures of 1.9 million in revenue, amount of 6.7 4 million have been identified the fiscal year 26 proposed budget is 135,000 increase in expenditures and 1.4 million increase in revenue the January 2025 year to date, revenues are on par with our budgeted budget, and we expect to end this fiscal year on budget. The DH budget breakdown shows an overall funding increase of 7% which is comprised of the 4% for general wage and cola and the operational increase of 3% for my final slide, I invite the public to connect with us online via telephone at div dept kiosk throughout the city, or at suite 1004 in the Coleman, a young municipal center. I would again like to support think ocfo for their support in this process, and I would be remiss if I did not again, acknowledge and uplift my staff and express my gratitude for their commitment and the contributions they bring to our team every day. In closing, I would like to thank this honorable body for its time. I am confident DH can operate within the fiscal year 26 budget as proposed, and I welcome your questions and comments. Thank you.

    Thank you so much for that presentation. And, of course, all the work that you all do. We appreciate you as well, and we will start with questions from my colleagues, and I'll start with you. Proton tape, thank

    you, Madam President, good morning. Good morning, director and your team. No, no question. I don't have many questions, let me say that. And most of the questions I have will be submitted in writing, just the overall, general question. You all were stood up in the early 2000s and you're approaching some years now under your belt. The goal has for how it's been communicated, has been to change behavior, not necessarily, you know, use this as a revenue stream, so to speak. How have you in your department been able to determine if if behavior has changed? I mean, I know that's a very broad question, but is there any data to show behavioral change outside of just more fines, more tickets?

    Thank you through the chair to pro temp Tate. So I appreciate that question very much, because I do believe that when DH first opened its doors in january 2025, and where we are now 20 years on, can only be different places, right? So the focus, I think now in the community is again compliance blight elimination and DHS role in blight elimination and enforcement is to have fair and impartial hearings in an expeditious manner. We don't write the tickets. We are there for the residents and business owners that receive tickets to challenge those tickets at our tribunal. So how we gage a change in behavior is is on both our side, in in the public side. So on our side, we've increased community outreach again last year. I know at my budget presentation, I offered, and I renew that offer to participate in any any community forums that this honorable body would like to invite our department to I know we received such an invitation from Councilwoman Johnson, and we very much appreciated that opportunity to connect with the community and the residents. So we are increasing our community engagement and letting people know our message is that when you receive a correction order or a blight ticket from a ticket issuing agency, that is when you have the most options available to you contact the Ticket issuing agency about compliance. DH, can't answer those questions, right? We're here to for your hearing date that's on your ticket. It's critical you attend your hearing date and and participate, but the further you go through the DH process, the less options you're going to find yourself having in really making sure that the public is aware of that we've made internal policy changes as well that I think, reflect our commitment to that five step process And that are really resulting in increased numbers of people attending their hearings, and that's really translates the education piece, and then having more people participate in the DH process. Pro Tem, does that? Is that responsive to your question? Okay,

    that's the response. Absolutely. The other question is, how do you determine the trying to figure out the right word. Effectiveness may not be it, but for your adjudicators, do they go through an evaluation and analysis of their execution of the cases is, I'll just leave it at that, how and when.

    Okay, thank you. So through the through the president to to pro temp Tate, so we, we do go through that process. So our hearing officers again, we're, we have ongoing training. Attorney Hunt is the manager of our hearings division. She they have consistent meetings to talk about issues that come up. But what I really want to highlight is that the the violations in the Detroit city code are strict compliance violations. So really, our hearing officers are are looking at the code saying, what does what is the city's law, and when the city presents the evidence and testimony to support that violation, and when the respondent prevent provides their testimony and evidence on why the violation should not, they should not be found responsible, it really is a question of, did the Blight violation exist at the time the ticket was issued? Again, the department ticket issuing departments can dismiss tickets for compliance, and that really, again, is blight eradication and improvement of blighted conditions is the goal. But our hearing officers, again go through the continual review of what the hearings are there, continually in discussion and keeping abreast of what the changes are that this honorable body makes to the city code so that we can stay abreast. And

    I guess my question is kind of stemming to, you know, the proverbial Miss Johnson, you know, 80 years old as someone who dumped blight on her property had nothing to do with it whatsoever. And then somebody else came and dumped more. And then two days later, more and more and more, and then Ms Johnson receives a black ticket. Ms Johnson is on a very fixed income, and it's based on the Blight that has been placed there. It's almost a good assumption that she didn't place it there herself and didn't allow it. It's just Ms Johnson is 80 plus years old, living in her home by herself. When that kind of a case come to comes to you and your team, as I mentioned to the other department that was before you, if there's a human factor that's involved as well, there may there's a definitely a letter of the law, but there's a human factor as well. How does your hearing officers, how do they determine the human factor of it? Because we can always do buy the book and it was on your property. It's your fault. You remove it, but understanding also the circumstance of the individual and their personal financial situation, as well as the again, as we have to assume, because we don't know who put the trash out there or the black but fairly safe to assume that it wasn't the person who received the black ticket. The human aspect of it, talk to us a little bit about how your hearing officers deal with that in a situation that on paper is black and white, but there's a human element involved as well. Thank you.

    Through the Chair to pro tem. So that human factor is definitely important, especially when we're looking at a at a process much like other courts right the age, different things are not available on the citation. It literally is, was there blight observed. So D, H also provides resources and is connected to the department, neighborhood and HRD and other departments that have have resources to give to the city. This is a situation, and the human factor really the city has the most opportunity, as does the respondent that received the ticket, the earlier they contact the city to begin talking to the ticket issuing agency about a situation. And the example you provided, President Pro Tem is, is, is often the best case scenario, because that way the city can can engage with that 80 year old Miss Johnson as soon as possible. I'd like to also give manager hunt an opportunity to discuss in the hearings how those situations might be addressed. Thank you. Thank you.

    Thank you. In the hearings, how that is addressed is the hearing officers, and having been a hearing officer before we have the opportunity to be able to take all things into consideration, we do look at the letter of the law, but at the same time, we also assess the situation. We look at, is this a person who's had this situation, maybe occur over the lifespan that they've lived there, maybe this is a troubled situation, or is it a one time occurrence? So we take all of that testimony into account, and then we try to look at, what have they done to remediate the situation? Have they reached out? Many times you'll hear citizens say they've tried to call someone, and they'll bring someone with them on Zoom, and they're able to provide testimony, saying, you know, hey, I'm here. I'm trying to help. Oftentimes, the in the inspectors or the police officers that have also gone out there, they're able to testify. I've had actual inspectors that have gone out and they have tried to assist either by showing that individual like Mrs. Johnson the things that she may need to do in order to rectify the situation, or have provided her with resources. We also try to take that in consideration and put ourselves in a situation that that was a family member or someone that we knew what type of advice that we could give them within the law, to try to help guide them and educate them on things they can do moving forward, to try to eliminate being in that particular situation. Hope that answered that question is a little bit Yes. Ma'am, okay. We'll

    have additional questions that we're submitting in writing, but again, thank you for the work that you and your team does on a regular basis. Thank you. Thank you.

    Thank you. Pro Tem member waters,

    thank you, Madam President. And I'm, I'm so glad that Pro Tem mentioned the whole senior p7 and a main part of because, I mean, if you're out canvassing, you you'll see most of the some of the better maintain properties because seniors live there. I mean, I it has been proven time and time again. So if there are some issues with light is normally either because somebody's dumping there or because they're too ill to take care of it. So anyway, I'm happy dept that he did ask that question. I just want to know my first question, Detroit land bank tickets versus BC tickets? How do you handle those? Do you handle those differently?

    So through the president to member waters, thank you for the question. So all of the tickets issuing agencies for BC, whether it be BC or DPD, any of those tickets are going through the same process, so that it's that five step process where the the community and the respondent that received the Blight violation notice has that opportunity to reach out to the ticket issue agency in advance of the hearing, and then again, once the DH hearing occurs, then you know they would be dealing with with our department, so it would be the same process. Ma'am. Okay, all

    right, thank you. Liens and property seizing. Tell me, how many liens do you place on property annually, and and how many properties has has been seized as a result of those, those light tickets

    through the through the chair to member waters. I want to be extremely, extremely clear da H does not seize property well. So, so I just want to make sure with responding to the question, I want to make very, very clear that that DH does not seize property. Currently, we're engaged in our collection and judgment enforcement efforts our collections agency, which, if a member of the public has received a note from the collections agency, they should contact them directly that file is now at collections in the past, they would be calling the city. We really want them to engage with the collections vendor as to liens. DH, did file liens in the mid 2010s that is something that we're looking to do in this upcoming fiscal year. Member waters, and we hope to report that back to you with one thing we actively do. And I apologize now for for for skipping I said one thing we don't do one thing we do, which is our collection efforts. Follow you. Okay, I get it and and then I skipped again to something we're going to start doing as liens. And now I'll end my comment with something that we also are currently doing, which is filing garnishments. So we have, we file garnishments again, that process goes through the Wayne County, Third Circuit Court, just like the DA H process, people have opportunity to to challenge that, and some often do so. So we also filed garnishments member waters. I hope that was responsive.

    Well, yeah, I guess I just kind of wondered if you knew, if you kind of tracked it in some way, in terms of, you know, properties being seized, not that you're seizing them in your sales, but how many do you ever track it? Are you just once it leaves you is kind of out of out of your hands, is that what you're saying the

    through the chair to member water. So what we track is the amount of outstanding judgments and the value of those that are in our collections. So if, if, again, we don't pursue any actions to seize properties or that so that wouldn't be any data or statistics that we would have available to us.

    Okay, gotcha All right, then. Thank you so much. Mr. Jim. Thank

    you. Member Benson,

    thank you. Thank you all for being here this morning, looking at page, bravo. 45 TAC five. We're looking at about a 1.7 $1.4 million increase, which is about 20% 20 626% increase over fiscal year 25 proposed for fiscal year 26 please explain that these are additional revenues. Please explain how do you get to that increase from fiscal year 25

    so through the chair to member Benson. Thank you for that question again, as Pro Tem stated, and I very much appreciated that comment to start off our conversation during our Q and A this afternoon. Th is not a revenue generating department. We're not set up to function as such, and our mission is not as such. We hold hearings. Please come to your hearing. Please don't ignore tickets. Please don't ignore judgments, right? And so are that increase in revenue, as I stated in my summary, fiscal year 24 we were a we were 1.9 million over our fiscal 20 fiscal year, 23 actual for revenue. So we believe that the again, the revenue projections are reasonable, and have been working very diligently internally to institute operational and process improvements, some of which we were sharing, the public facing ones today to help us again, maximize the efficiency of our hearings and streamline our processes so that we can stay within our budget and

    and report out accurately.

    Okay, Miss pastor, you indicate that you are not a revenue generating organization, but the numbers in our budget book will belie that information indicate that you are a very successful department that brings in far more than what you actually expend, which I don't think is a bad thing, but, and this is to pro Tim's point earlier, was hoping that we're looking at behavior change and compliance, which is what we say we want, and we do want that. But for those and my bosses tell me this all the time, if people do not comply, they are. They let me know that they want people to be held accountable, and I'm glad for that. I was hoping that we're doing it in a compassionate way and educating people, which is what I've seen moving forward. But I also just, I do want to indicate that you all are very successful when it comes to a department spending and then bringing in revenue. So you all are doing you're bringing money in versus only taking money out. So I want to make sure that maybe I'm wrong. That's clear as well.

    No through the Chair, if I may. Thank you. Member Benson, so I think what, what? And you're not incorrect at all in your comments or your observations. What I did want to highlight is what we have worked very hard to change since I've become director, is changing those perceptions in the community. Again, come to your hearing. If you miss your hearing, you have opportunity to file a motion to set aside the default if you get a ticket and you see that your hearing date is a date that you have a doctor's appointment with a specialist that took you four months to get don't ignore it. Call our Customer Service Division 2240098, you can adjourn your hearing date one time for a $20 motion fee. These are things we're trying to, again, increase the education. And the other part about it is really the consistency. Member Benson that this is the process, and as you go through the process, everyone moves through the process in the same way. So the earlier that the individuals connect with the city, the more time they have, the more options they have, the more we can address the human factor that was raised and is also so important. And again, our changes have been very monumental. We took the notary requirement off our motion to set aside, we made it available for people to file online. Our blight clearance application process is now all online, and those are the bigger projects that we were able to accomplish since I arrived. There are smaller things too we now use and joy. Lynn's going to laugh, but my bright yellow envelopes that I really we now have bright yellow envelopes with red lettering on them, important property document so that these, these judgments that we're sending to folks, these judgment reminders, the that are we're sending to folks, are really noticeable and get their attention so that they can reach out, if as a reminder, If they haven't reached out already on those issues, but I think it really is, is increasing awareness and really being inconsistent, being consistent how we interact with the public, which is, if you've had your hearing now you have a judgment, these are your options. If you're going over to collections now you're in collections, you need to speak with collections. And I think that message is resonating with the community and those those set expectations will only continue to gain traction as we move forward, right? Thank

    you Mister Chair, thank you member Johnson.

    Thank you Mister Chair, good at Good morning. Thank you all so much for the presentation and Director. Thank you for coming out to the district to give more information to residents about the department. I do want to kind of delve a little deeper into what you were just sharing about. One of the concerns that I hear is about notices and notification the timeliness of it. So can you speak to how you connect with residents when they have a hearing, and if you connect with them in multiple ways? Because I've heard that people receive the notification the day that the hearing is taking place. I don't know if that means that's when they open the envelope, or if that if there's a delay within the Postal Service or anything of that nature, so can you just share with us what your process is?

    Thank you so much. The chair to member Johnson, and thank you again for the invitation. We're more than willing to come out again. Should you wish to host us? So to answer your questions about the notice for the Blight tickets. Blight violation notice blight tickets are sent by the ticket issuing agency through the mail and posted on the property. So that's something that the ticket issuing agency is doing under state law, the DH hearing cannot be sent within 14 days. So what we're constantly one of our goals that we're we're constantly monitoring at Da H is that time between the ticket issuance and the hearing, we want to make sure it's exp you know, it's expedient and expeditious and reasonable, but it's not too long. So there, there is that. And I know in 2023 the average number of days was higher. It was at 37 before I came on board for last fiscal year, it was 23 days. So again, it cannot be earlier than 14 days. So people have have the notice and opportunity. But that is something we're always trying to stay under 30 days as much as we can with our docket capacity and ticket volume. To just touch briefly on your observation of that's the day they went to their PO Box. That's the day their tenant, you know, told them there are a host of issues that that we certainly don't have to try to identify. All of them. There could be many, many reasons. Again, those individuals normally reach out to da H in that situation and and again, the earlier they reach out to the ticket issuing agency, when they become aware, the more options they'll have, but, but we have noticed a decrease in the number of folks who are calling the day of the hearing or reaching out the day before, the day of saying, I never got notice. Because, again, I think the ticket issuing agencies have in our observation, have really the posting, I think, has been the most effective by by our by our estimation, and we have the out of state property owners that are often the ones saying they didn't get notice. You can register either your rental you're required under the code to register your rent rental properties and your vacant properties, to anyone that hears my voice that does not have their rentals registered or their vacant property registered, that is a disservice to yourself. That is the all the information that the city uses to contact you in regard to those properties. So when we're giving notices there, they're using that information as well as deed information. So I think we're we're doing we're not seeing it as much on our end that people are bringing up notice issues. Member Johnson, I know that was a long answer, I apologize, but I really wanted to make sure to give you the full information. I

    appreciate that. But do you all have other ways to provide notification to property owners that their hearing is coming up, or what the date of the hearing

    through the chair to member Johnson? No, currently we do not do that. The hearing date is on the ticket. Any member of the public can go on our website, the Blight enforcement tracking system, it says, look up or pay a ticket on our homepage, Detroit mi.gov, forward slash, D, A, H, if you select the button, it's a large button that says, look up or pay a ticket. You can add in a ticket number to find out the hearing date, or there is a carrot drop down that you can add in a property address and find out ticket information on our website.

    Okay, thank you. And just to follow up with that, I did have a constituent reach out to me for a blight hearing. They did a screenshot they were sitting on zoom from before the hearing was due to start, and sitting on Zoom for some time. So I don't know what that that process is, how you would know that the individual is there for a particular hearing, but would love to have a conversation with you about that offline. My other question is not necessarily a question. Well, I guess the question is, can you help clear up the process with liens, blight violations that do go on to, I guess that that were liens back in the day for properties that end up with either the county or the Detroit Land Bank Authority and go through the auction process. Sometimes people believe that because they're going through the auction process, that the lien, the Blight violation, has been waived

    through the through the president to member Johnson, so there, there the our DH judgments are valid for 10 years. If there's a lien filed, liens also have expiration dates based on the recording date. What I what I will say, is a situation that we encounter, create frequently at Da h, is individuals that are selling property. So da H, our requirement is you are responsible for the Blake tickets issued for you at that property address, or, you know, to get a blight clearance. If you owned four properties, the four properties would need to be clear, correct. So for individuals, what we get have have gotten calls on is that they are selling property or buying property, and the title company is requiring the complete history of blight violations that are active to be paid that is not a city requirement. That is something that the title company requires. And if that is part of your property transaction, then again, that does not have anything to do with the city. So we're we are our policy, and the city's policy is that it is you're responsible for blight tickets issued to yourself at that property. So do

    we know where the where the funds would go if that were the case? So the title company is requiring that these blight violations be addressed, and I've had instances where constituents will share with me that the funds were held in order to address the black the Blight violation, but it was a long time ago. Do we know where those funds go from the title company?

    Well, the the again, as through the chair, as it being a requirement of a title company, those funds should have been moved from escrow to pay those tickets so that the Blight clearance, the Blight clearance could be granted, and the title company could use that release to proceed forward with that closing. So I'm not and I welcome the opportunity to talk offline with you, because I know it sounds like you have more specific questions than you might want to get to in at the table, and I welcome that conversation, but, but again, the thing that I would like to highlight in those situations is those funds that are held in escrow by title companies to clear All the Blight tickets is is not a city requirement that would be something for the title companies that they're requiring as part of the transaction. The city requirement, again, is property, excuse me, blight tickets issued to that property owner for that property. Thank

    you. Thank you. Madam President.

    Member Santiago Romero, thank

    you, Madam President, through you Good morning. I also have questions regarding notices I chair public health and safety. We have dangerous buildings, and we will often hear concerns complaints about notices being sent out late. So thank you for going to what you actually do and what, excuse me, what residents can expect, because I do hear a lot of those concerns and complaints regarding notices, also wondering if those are being sent out in different languages, and if so, what does that look like? So through

    the chair to a member, Santiago Romero and again, thank you for the invitation to speak at your community event as well. We really enjoyed that, and we enjoyed being able to provide the resources in multiple languages for your constituents. So what I will say again with notices is that those are sent out by the ticket issuing departments are I can say that our currently, our judgment reminders are not sent out in multiple languages. We do work closely with Creo for the language access plan and those resources. We have resources in our in person locations, the Customer Service Division on the 10th floor to help identify people with that speak other languages is their primary their primary language. But it to my understanding, that the notices do not contain multiple languages at this time when they go out through

    the Chair. Thank you. Is there a way that the company that you work with that sends a notices Have you asked them if this is something that is within their capacity to do?

    So through the chair? So again, that we're open to having those conversations with the ticket issuing agency, agencies that again, creo, I know the language that the city puts forward about Creo and language access and all that has has increased, and certainly we acknowledge that there are, there's certainly still room to to do more, so we're certainly open to those conversations.

    All right. Thank you The Chair. Thank you that would be helpful, that way people are able to receive that immediately, not have to backtrack. Oftentimes these notices, well, this is important work, right? Sam, we want to make sure that people know exactly what to do, how to move forward. The other question that I have is regarding community blight courts. Thank you for for looking into this work. I know that it's something that we can look forward to in the future, but if you wouldn't mind sharing with us the benefits of community black courts and how how residents can engage with it,

    thank you for for bringing that up, Councilwoman through the chair to the Councilwoman. So we we were not able to reinstitute community black court during my first fiscal year, back back when I excuse me, when I started at Da H so that remains a goal, and we're certainly committed to doing that. What we were focused on, again, we're maximizing those internal operating efficiencies, we were able to accomplish public facing projects and efficiencies as well so that our operations are running more smoothly. Our goal for community Blake court, it was something that this department did in the past, under previous leadership, again, now that we're five years outside of COVID, we would like to, we would like to reinstitute that, and really that would be an opportunity for DH to come into the community, to go into recreation centers and hold our hearings. And we feel that this would be very beneficial to increase our community engagement, community education, and start some of those important conversations. And the goal, of course, is to increase participation in the hearing and DH process, so those that's what we hope to achieve with that. Again, my apologies. We were not able to to get that going, but, we definitely have identified that as a goal for this upcoming fiscal year. It will definitely be community Blake court in our new docket management system, our two main priorities for this upcoming fiscal year

    through the Chair. Thank you. That's exciting. Is there anything that we can do as a council to help you make this a reality

    through the chair to the Councilwoman. Certainly, as I indicated last year, we would be rotating council districts. We would be looking forward to partnering with each of your offices, as well as the at large members to to hold and coordinate those courts throughout throughout the city. So we would very much look for for councils, collaboration and in getting the word out that this is happening and and again, we really try. I always joke. The only way I say no to it in a community event is if I'm already booked for another one. So we really do make every effort to be out in the community as much, but I think holding the Community Bike court will really give people a chance to come and see how we operate and how the hearings are conducted. Thank

    you. Through the Chair, briefly, I guess, when can we expect community like courts to be established

    through the chair our my goal would definitely be before the next time that you see me sitting here, before you would be my goal. Thank you.

    Thank you, Madam President. Thank you so much. And that was the one question I was going to ask that she just asked was about the community black court. So if there's nothing that we can do in this budget to support you. It sounds like everything is fine. From a fiscal standpoint. From a financial standpoint, you have all the budget and finances you need to get that going.

    Madam President, I appreciate that question that yes, we, we're, we're very again, we've really been focused since I had the privilege of being appointed director, to be looking inward. Okay, we've got some public facing things done. Let's not forget about the yellow envelopes, and then we're looking for it again to increasing our public facing engagement and community bike court will be a big part of that. But we're confident that our budget is proposed is adequate for us to achieve our goals. Okay,

    all right. Well, thank you so much. We have some additional questions that we will submit in writing, if there are no additional questions from my colleagues that will conclude our budget hearing, and we appreciate all of the amazing work that you guys are doing. So thank you so much for being here. Thank

    you very much. Thank you.

    Okay, we will move now to public comment for this morning. And how many callers do we have joining us virtually this morning?

    Madam President, we have eight callers online.

    All right, we will proceed with public comment. Everyone will have two minutes for public comment.

    All right, our first caller is, we see you,

    right? We see you Good morning.

    We see you Good afternoon.

    All right, we see you. Good afternoon.

    All right, let's go to the next caller, please.

    All right, our next caller is William M Davis,

    okay, we'll come back after Mr. Davis to we see you. Mr. Davis, good afternoon. You.

    Mr. Davis has given permission to speak. He just needs to unmute.

    Mr. Davis, are you with us?

    Good afternoon. Mr. Davis,

    okay, let's try to go back to we see you.

    All right, we see you. Has been given permission to speak.

    We see you, good afternoon.

    We see you, good afternoon. Okay,

    let's continue.

    All right, we will move to Betty a Varner, Miss Varner, good afternoon.

    Good afternoon to all within the sound of my voice here, advocating again for the senior accessibility home repair program. It is needed for the seniors and for the disabled, and hopefully that moneys more monies can be allocated for this program, also for the the Detroit accessibility program for seniors. Hopefully money can be allocated for both of these programs and including we need those walk in showers, speaking to people. I was at the bank recorder meeting yesterday evening, and some seniors asked me for update or whatever, and I shared with them what I do know, but it is something that is needed by seniors who want to continue to live in their homes, and so we know they're expensive. That's why I started allocating because when I checked it out, did my research, I can't afford it. I don't need that type of bill hanging over my head at 75 years old by the time I take care of my regular responsibilities, I want peace. I don't want to be worried about paying bills and having a lien put on my home or whatever because of a walk in shower. Also, please allocate moneys for a program to help organizations to improve their neighborhoods, projects that they might have and let it also include monies to help organizations pay for fees that are needed when you apply for a 501.

    All right, thank you. Ms Barner,

    our next caller is Council oversight matters.

    All right, good, good afternoon.

    Council oversight matters, good afternoon.

    All right, going once and hear me. Oh yeah, we can hear you. Miss, worry.

    Okay, my apologies, that was away from the screen.

    Well, thank you for asking the questions about notices.

    I was given a blight ticket for long grass. I guess the way I discovered it was I got a collection notice in the mail. Then I found out that the ticket was mailed to an old address and there was no ticket on site because I spoke with somebody. So what was I supposed to do? Leave it on the grass or something? Well, why not? So I never got the notice. I brought this up several times. One of the DH or VC person says it should have been dismissed because they got it way, way late. And I've brought it up at mayors meetings, and nobody gets back with me. So I know I'm on the do not help list for a lot of people, but I'm one of those persons. And then there was another ticket. The guy, the the inspector, did not work with me, wasn't communicating very well, hit me for a ticket that, like, really didn't apply, and then they're trying to charge me for the ticket that I paid for. And so where do I go with this? I've gone to the the mayor's meetings. I spoke with one of the mayor's persons. Nobody followed up. And it's also pretty clear there's a lot of selective blight enforcement going on. I mean, people were maybe I had grass that was long one day I could have mowed it the next day, I don't know, but this city, and even director Bell, they're like, okay with people mowing over the garbage. And why is that allowed? You know, they say, Oh, we care about people's health, but we don't have a health department, but you're going to use eminent domain take people's property and that people can move over the garbage. So please, can I get some help?

    All right? Thanks. Miss work, and if you just send that information over, we can try to assist as much as possible. Miss Warrick,

    our next caller is Cindy Dara. Cindy

    Dara, good afternoon. Good

    afternoon. I've always felt for years that the city council should pass an ordinance requiring party stores to have a garbage can right outside their door, and they can always take it in at night if they're afraid somebody's going to mess with it. But I I want to just also mention, when you have a lien on the property, you can't get a warranty deed, and all you can get is a quick claim deed. So that's something that people and when they're sending these notices out, they should I, I had one. I had safes in there, just in the front yard to show people they're safe in the CAS quarter. Well, I'd taken them out of my basement years ago, so I had to get rid of those. But I went over to the where the old incinerator was, that's where their office was, that I could find for the people who give the bike tickets. So I went over there and talked to them. I got a inspection date before the hearing, so I didn't have to go to any hearing, because I got it cleaned up and paid some friends of mine to help me get this stuff out, and we moved it out. So that's that should be on the notice that they can get a new inspection and and putting a lien within 30 days is ridiculous. You know, punish. Come on. Did he try it? Move here so we can punish you. That's and I want to say the recreation General Services ruined recreation, and they put down these flick floors that you can fall on. So and now, what they got over to Adams vessel, a sign, so if we won't get sued, it just says these floors are always wet. They're always slippery. Be careful. Well, that's how they fix their mistake there. But they keep making mistakes. They're not asking the people who actually do the work to go over these projects.

    Thank you, Miss Dara. Our next caller is Stephen Harring.

    Steven Hari, good afternoon. You

    can i

    So demolition, you know, I feel like we just spent so much money on demolition. And you know, I see so many properties that are completely intact, and you know, they're just completely demolished. And you know, nothing's ever built over them. We can never really get anything built in this city. You know, we can barely even get a townhouse built. So, you know, I am happy this year that at least DDOT is higher increase that any of the other departments, which is, you know, satisfying. I know that obviously some activists wanted more, which makes sense. But, you know, I think the demolition, really the budget should be lowered a little bit in demolition, don't I mean, we need demolition here budget. We need a high demolition budget, for sure, because, you know, we have burnt down homes. But, you know, I just feel like the demolition department has just abused it so much with tearing down intact buildings that could easily get restored. You know, it's pretty much destroying our city, you know, and I know private property owners kind of have the right to do whatever they want with the properties, but you know, they gotta really look at the fees, maybe even get a feasibility assessment Before they tear down a building that seems to be physically in good shape, and I think the Renaissance Center. So I just want to mention that finally, you know, Nico Williams is full of, I can't say that word. You know, the towers aren't going down. It's two towers. It's going to be more integrated to downtown. It's not going to be like some fortress complex. You know, it's a good proposal, and it's going to pass. They're going to get the incentives, and it's going

    to thank you. Mister Hari,

    next we have Ronald Foster.

    Ronald Foster, good afternoon.

    Good afternoon, just a couple things. Appreciate Council always, like I said, I'm quite a while, and council have always had an open ear to the community. They just haven't had the ability or authority to really fix things or address things or command administration to do things but one, as far as DHA and appeals and hearings and enforcement, I spoke briefly about it with one of the offices. We have to have equal enforce, equitable enforcement, which means that when these enforcement officers are coming in these communities, it is an injustice for them to ride past a city owned blighted building and enforce on citizens and not make a note about what it is that they see in that community, not make a note internally for the city itself to rectify its own issues. That's where a lot of the grievances and problems come into the community. We we want our city to practice what they preach. If they're able to come out and enforce in our community, then they should be able to receive enforcement as well. And that's just about lying to it. Too many of our buildings, too many of our communities and too many of our cities, citizens who are already impoverished, already unemployed, already in bad communities are paying the buck of these appeals and enforcements. We have to do better with that. And then, like I said, more importantly, have a policy in place that any of these directors or BC or whoever comes into this community, they have to take notes into what they see wholeheartedly across the board, not just with citizens, but with what city owns as well and the neglect there. So I appreciate you all

    Okay, thank you all right, we will go back to William M Davis.

    Mr. Davis, good afternoon.

    Is he showing unmuted?

    Okay? Mr. Davis, good afternoon.

    All right, Mr. Davis, going once twice,

    and we will proceed. Mr. Davis, you will have another opportunity after at our next time for public comment, our next caller,

    we see you. We can try that. That's our final caller. Okay, we

    see you. Good afternoon. Hi. Good afternoon.

    Through the Chair. May I be heard? Yes, you can. Carolyn Hughes, this whole thing with demolition and emergency demolitions seems to be a forest. I read the document, and it says that in order for the house to be on that list, it has to be structural, unable to fix I don't understand how paying property taxes takes it off the list if they've already deemed it unfixable. And see, and this is, this is the thing that that keeps occurring in the city of Detroit, you have these properties, and you say that they go up to the demolition list. And that was the whole thing about the Munez properties, nobody has mentioned how much money the city has made or lost on all of the Blight tickets for this one particular realtor, or he's supposed to be supplying housing to people, but the housing seems to be sub par. Uh, nobody seems to be able to get a handle on this, including the demolition now, construction department that keeps switching names. You know, it's like a moving target, but these are not one offs that she's talking about. These are things. That's why she said we got caught. Yeah, we're fixing up the buildings, and then they're turning them over to the white developers and and land owners with the land bank, and then they're selling them, but we have paid to fix them up. And the other thing about emergency demolitions, you understand that they don't have to abate the property, as he testified to and in abating the property, you get rid of the contaminants that someone testified to yesterday about contamination in the soil. So you, you you want to continue to keep the city contaminated. Even though we get city funds, we get federal funds to clean this contamination up so you keep calling the property an emergency, even though that is to get around certain things.

    All right, thank you. All right. That will conclude our general public comment, and we will stand in recess until 2pm as we continue our budget deliberations, we will now stand in recess.