Welcome to pay leave and power week on the weird for good podcast all week, we're bringing you candid conversations for the nonprofit sector. And today is day four. And we're talking about the power dynamics and major gifts. We're so glad you're here. Hey, I'm John. And I'm Becky. And this is the we are for good podcast.
Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. Are you Becky?
Amazing human alert. You guys are in for a treat. today.
We're so excited to finally be talking to Maria Choi, we have been kind of following her kind of stalking her for a while and the way that she shows up online the way that she has positioned and grown her team to serve our sector and serve for good businesses. In a really unique way. This meeting the moment is game changing. And so we're delighted Secretary she's the founder and CEO of res for good, we kind of share last name with you on the name of your business, which is really awesome my cousin's. But you know, she is a first generation Korean American Maria's life work has been centered on developing education, economic opportunities for women and minorities to thrive in a global economy. She's a strategist, she's a fundraiser, she's a marketer. And she's just casually raised over $125 million through corporations and high net worth individuals. So she her partners. I mean, we were kind of geeking out on this partners list. But I mean, she has worked with the Gates Foundation and Reid Hoffman in the pledge 1% Sesame Workshop, can we just have an episode talking about that? Alone, she is leading this boutique strategy studio race for good that helps raise capital capacity and visibility for tech and purpose driven entrepreneurs and organizations globally. And we are completely geeked out you can hear our values threaded in her story, and then the work that she presents. So Maria, welcome to the show. We're so delighted to have you here.
Thank you both for having me. I'm so excited.
Oh my gosh, we've literally been counting down the days. So take us back to your story. I mean, your origin story. And really your lived experience I know had kind of paved this path for how you're showing up today, we kind of take us back to growing up and tell us a little bit about what led you to start raise for good.
Yeah, absolutely. Kind of taking it way back. My mom was supported by an NGO during the Korean War. And so she really instilled giving back and volunteering in our family at a very young age. So when kids were probably playing outside, in elementary school, I was volunteering at the nursing home every week, that really inspired me to get into social impact work.
Well, I love that just I think it's anytime we meet a founder, who kind of connects the dots back to something that happened in childhood, and those formative years can be so impactful. It's just the greatest stories because your empathy that's baked in, just seems I don't know more pure and authentic. And we just love what you're doing over at race for good. And I think one of the things that is so interesting to us, as we watch kind of your thought leadership on PAC is just the dignified way that you talk about how we need to be making some shifts in the philanthropic industry. And so I want to talk a little bit about power dynamics today. And we really attempted to try to talk about the disparities specifically in dei and nonprofits and the power dynamics and the shifts of just how our organizations are just not equitable, not in the way that we hire, not in the way that we bring people in from a board perspective, even the way that we engage in the way that we cultivate. And so I would love for you to kind of dive into this shift in power dynamics that you're seeing because leaders of color are often in the driver's seat of social and economic change, yet they're entirely underestimated and underfunded. So can you share a little bit more about this and paint that picture for our listeners?
Yeah, absolutely. I think we can talk about this all day forever. But I think we know that philanthropies, you know, burst from, you know, periods of extreme wealth in our country and a lot of the problematic systems that exist, it's a product of that system. So I think, you know, we are all pretty well aware of that, but I do think there is an opportunity. And we've known this I think we've dedicated our life's work to this, but there's an opportunity for those in powers of position and wealth and privilege to think and do differently. So we're really a couple key things that we want to contribute to as we think about changing power dynamics and philanthropy is really Thinking about trust based partnerships? Just thinking inherently that there's a funder, and there's someone who's asking for money? And how do we really looking look at it as a true partnership. So where does that trust based approach to philanthropy come in so few things. That means one increasing capacity building in grantees to is hiring people to give out the funds who have lived experience or can deeply empathize or understand issues facing communities that funders are investing in. Three is providing more unrestricted funding and loosening reporting structures, there's often this challenge of nonprofits have too much overhead, but then you're asking them to do a lot of this complicated reporting, and be able to prove the impact in less than a year. So really just the structure and how funding is given. And expected to prove is really challenging. So one example I give is in the venture capital industry. You know, I live and work in San Francisco, I work with tons of tech companies pre post IPO. And they're raising hundreds of millions in venture funding, they believe in the leader and their vision, they get decades, sometimes a runway to prove out their model before some of them are not even profitable. And so there's a huge disconnect in the expectations for nonprofit leaders versus how we look at it on the other side of the coin.
I love that you're lifting this up, because I think it's fascinating just to from a business perspective of you're trying to compete in a landscape where some of the biggest entities don't even have to be profitable for such a long runway. And you think about what that's doing, you know, holistically, and you're looking at the inequitable lending practices to in our sector, I mean, lean more into that, like, how can you kind of continue to lift the veil? Because I think there's a new conversation for at least our show, and we want to lift that topic and everywhere we're going,
Yeah, absolutely. I think don't quote me on the stats, we can put those in later. One of our past clients always is a community that's looking to increase funding for women in in venture. So there's a huge movement that we're seeing in who is funding both on the for profit and nonprofit side. And who gets the funding and how much so I think collectively, all of these sectors are interdependent on each other, really. So in our world of philanthropy. That's why we work with nonprofits, foundations, and companies, because it's really building those bridges to lift, you know, all the boats. And we need to see the for profit sector investing more and women and leaders of color, and we're seeing that momentum being built right now. And it's really exciting to see. And then we need to see that trickle down to the philanthropic sector.
I'm just so proud of you for doing this work. I'm so heartened that you're doing this work, it is so needed, and there's there are unlimited statistics that show when you invest in women, when you invest in people of color, the growth and the scale is so mighty. And I wondered if you could just talk to us a little bit about how you go in and start to change some of these mindsets. And I mean, even like a common any common myths that people may have around to this, we want to dispel them and sort of set a new path for how we need to be moving forward with these equitable discussions.
Yeah, absolutely. Again, we could talk about this all day. But I just see, you know, raised for good as a vessel right to be able to, again, I really see ourselves as bridge builders, bringing my lived experience, I can understand what a very early stage, nonprofit leader of color is experiencing as a first time founder, and be able to apply my direct experience to help coach them to build their agency to create a sustainable organization. On the flip side, I've worked with billionaires and millionaires, I've just had the privilege of building partnerships with companies and those in positions to give out the funds. And I think, again, we play we all play a part. And so it raised for good, we really believe in connecting those dots. And being that bridge builder and really putting impact at the center. So if you're a funder and you're giving away hundreds of millions of dollars, why are you doing what you're doing, you actually want to transform communities, I hope and so really putting the impact as the North Star front and center. I think we kind of forget that as philanthropy professionals. There's a lot of work to do, but really always bringing it back to the impact. So if funders truly want to create impact act, we're gonna challenge you to really look at how you're doing the work you're doing. And the current way of one year investments with a lot of hoops that you have to jump through is that really the best return on investment for you, for your legacy or the impact you want to create. So I love to kind of put it back on funders and in a respectful way, and kind of challenge the how, and the way that they're operating to achieve that impact.
Oh, Maria is shaking it up, and I am here for it. These questions are so important. And we need to, we need to be able to pose them. And if you're working in a culture, where you again to the power dynamic conversation where you don't think you can lift these questions that challenge, equity and challenge what is the true impact, then we're not doing our mission, the great service. And I think there's a component of bravery here that I that I really love about what you're saying, and just feeling confident enough to speak up. So thank you for doing that. And gosh, everybody, grab your Moxie, you can do this, too. I feel like this is something that we want people to feel equipped to do that they can do on their own as
well. Yeah, and we hear a lot about agency. And I think I'm, I'm a living example of that, right? My parents worked really, really hard. I had to navigate my own education career. just growing up as a low income kid, my parents were working six days a week. But I do believe that, you know, it, when you build that agency, you can neutralize those power dynamics. And I hope that our raise for good team can be a living example of that to inspire our clients, other partners, funders, you know, in the community, that it's possible, and we teach our clients both how to navigate existing systems and power dynamics that exist, for example, when you're asking for funds, and we want to teach them how to build their own earned revenue, or sustainable revenue models, so they're not completely dependent on philanthropy. And I think how you walk in the room, you know, says, it says a lot, whether that's in person, or virtually now, that's been really interesting. But again, when you know your purpose, and why you're here on this earth, and what you're here to do, and you can show be 10 steps ahead of the funder, and answer all their questions before they have a chance to answer it, I guarantee you, you're probably going to get that funding. Okay,
just so leaned into this conversation, because you don't see the walls, Maria, and you're my favorite type of person, you know, because you're focused and centered on impact. And it's like, how do we all get to that place? Where The Money doesn't seem crazy anymore? It doesn't seem astronomical, doesn't seem like too much like but that is a retraining of a scarcity, I would say legacy that our entire sector embraces. So I mean, what are you seeing in terms of the way or maybe a great example of where the walls go apart? And you've got corporations coming together and really making magic with a nonprofit or do good business to really kind of actually do something, you know, and not just work in different places at the same time?
Yeah, absolutely. I just had a little gathering in person a few days ago of close friends, who are leads of social impact at companies. So I'll just name a few. But Roxana at zoom, she's really transforming the way that funders particularly in the corporate sector think about funding. They take a completely community based approach. So she has no power or pull herself nor do the Zoom executives or board on who's receiving the funds. And they fund a lot of early stage grassroots organizations, led by leaders of color, so that's very progressive. And there's a lot of trust based funders out there. That's something I want to demystify with nonprofit leaders. There's really aligned true partnership focused funders and I've experienced that my whole life as a fundraiser directly and now more as a coach with our partners. So folks like Olivia pager duty Erin at Okta, Kathy, a Pinterest, odd masa Digital Ocean, there's so many funders who truly either bring their nonprofit and lived experience to the seeds and that's what we want to see is more folks with lived experience who truly understand the problems they're trying to solve in these funding seats.
Hey, friends, we're taking a quick pause to quite literally invite you into this conversation. We really want to hear from you and hear about your personal experiences and the topics that we're unpacking this week. As part of paid leave and power week. So head on over to we're for good.com/power. And there, you're gonna find a place where you can share your story confidentially through our secure form that's there. Or you can even leave us an anonymous voice message. If you want to add your actual voice to the conversation, you know, we'd love to hear from you either way. That's weird for good.com/power. And while you're there, we've also designed the page to lead you into action within your organization. Here, you can connect with this week's guest and get a deep roundup of resources and access to frameworks and scripts to help you get this conversation started. As we begin changing the trajectory of these deeply rooted problems that are plaguing our sector, we hope to see you there.
I just love what you're saying. I love how you've shown up in this entirely unique way. And you're pushing this conversation in a new direction. But I'm really curious about your founding story, for raise for good, tell us how you can how you moved from funder into seeing this need. And we'd love to know just how you started and what that experience was like?
Absolutely. So I kind of mentioned my upbringing, and I spent the first half of my career at looking at what supports a low income kid like me would need to thrive. So spent time at UNICEF, zero to five, Sesame Street early childhood education and the critical importance of access to early childhood, I'm encouraged to see more and more of a conversation there co.org K through 12, can we create new systems, why change they're in a very fragmented education system after school enrichment programming. And then I just felt a sense of in the next phase of my career, what is my purpose, and I really heard and felt that it was to empower other women leaders of color, to increase their own economic potential. And so that's really our Northstar at race for good, and why we're doing what we do. Also, having been at Legacy organizations to very small startups, I've seen kind of I've worn all the hats, I've seen all the challenges. And I as we think about the future of work, I think there's a need that I saw on the market to help support companies at an early or grow stage. And you need different sets of skills, as you're in these very quickly moving phases of growth and change, again, kind of looking at the venture world and the startup world on the for profit side, they are able to move quickly and be nimble and agile. And I really want to bring that type of skill set to the work that we do at race for good. So it's very difficult, for example, to hire a fundraiser, it's, it's most of us are not actively fundraising anymore. And as a very early stage, organization, your needs or the way that your fundraising could change within a year. So for example, if you're looking for that unicorn, major gifts officer, but then you learn you're building, you know, you're selling your product, and you're able to generate your own revenue, things quickly change. And so the investment for nonprofits, in particular, I saw, you know, you kind of need a Swiss Army Knife group of skill sets until you can come self sustaining and build that long term organization. So that's where we come in at race for good. And be that partner alongside you to build the right strategy and do hopefully, help you hire the right team. And then we Fly away. Fly away.
And I mean, I've heard it a couple times now in your words, and kind of in just the way that y'all wrap around organizations that you partner with is this idea of sustainability and building sustainable organization. So when you talk about that, I mean, what is kind of set the stage for how we are today? And how can we move to becoming more sustainable in our different organizations?
Absolutely. So our model when I look again, at the core foundational elements of what's going to make a sustainable organization. So to us that model is strategy, storytelling and scale, which is a nice way of saying operations. It's, you know, that foundation is so critical. So an example is beyond 12. They're an amazing organization led by an unbelievable leader, Alex Bernadotte and they support first generation college students through a mentoring program as well as platform. So an example is Alex is phenomenal, with deep lived experience, and she's raised 10s of millions of dollars in philanthropic funding. But also they have an app that they sell to different community colleges and organizations that help nudge students to change their behaviors and be able to pursue their college degrees. And so they have an earned income model. Are these very smartly acquired another nonprofit. So I think this is a trend we're seeing in the space, where they acquired another nonprofit for their technology, as well as their engineering team. And so we helped them through this acquisition. And they were able to create a financial model where they will become majority self sustaining in in less than five years. So that's an example of what we mean by sustainability of nonprofit leaders thinking really creatively, to set their organizations up to serve more young people in the most efficient way possible.
Gosh, I want to thank you for filling that need. Because, you know, we talk a lot about scarcity, like within the nonprofit sector. And it's like, however, if we could get into a growth mindset, if we could even have a little bit of runway to innovate, to cast some dreams. I mean, we talked to Dan palapa and he's like, if you're, if people are not laughing at your dream, it's not big enough. And you have given the these nonprofits, that little bit of exhale to say, Okay, we're going to pause from the, from the 10,000, tactical things we're going to do today. And we're going to talk about something that's going to go to the root to the systemic problem. And we're going to rewire all of this. And you use the ugly word earlier in your conversation, the dirty word in nonprofit, which was overhead a little bit ago, and this word plagues us, it haunts us. And I want to get your perspective a little bit about that. Because we think overhead is us when people say I don't want to pay for overhead. It's like, Oh, you don't want to pay for people. You don't want to pay for systems you don't want to take for for innovation. And I think there's just a misperception around this not only with funders, but with people who work in nonprofits. So I would love for you to talk a little bit about that, and how you've seen power dynamics impact, what I'm using an air quotes overhead in terms of paid leave policies, you know, pay time off well being I mean, I just want to give you the floor and let you run.
Yeah. And I think well, being is such a big piece of that too, right? We are. We are burdened as nonprofit leaders to be able to do it all. And again, the systems that have been created have perpetuated the massive burnout in the nonprofit sector. I'm shaking off my own scarcity, mindset and literal poverty, you know, from my background in feeling like I don't deserve to make any money. I didn't come from that background. And it took me you know, 15 years to be able to afford to become an entrepreneur and take that risk, at race for good. So I think there's a lot of messaging that we as leaders have to unpack, and I still struggle with that race for good as a bootstrap small business. And I'm really focusing on my why my purpose and my mindset. And that's where, again, it's not about race for good. We are kind of behind the scenes, really being a support and a partner to our amazing clients. They are the stars, they're the ones every day day in and day out, doing the real work. And I hope that we can be a small part of helping to provide safe space to think about different strategies. How do I approach that funder when there's this power dynamic, I hope we can just be an encouragement and really empower leaders, particularly leaders of color to keep going to be their cheerleader. Again, to be that safe space, and I hope bring some of our lessons learned to help them do what they are already doing so amazingly well and bring some capacity bring a new idea just helped bring a different perspective, when it's such a lonely path and and a huge burden to carry not only to be an example for your team, but also the communities you're serving. So it's such a huge disservice. But I am encouraged again, as we see ourselves as a bridge to see funders who were educators. Right now they're leading foundations. I'm excited to see the shift in the sector again. We all have to work together. And I don't want it to be siloed or polarized. And I do think we're making progress. And I hope that we're seeing funders invest in that new profit is doing a great job with capacity building, we work with great organizations like village capital, que por center. You know, Jlh fun, there are so many funders out there who understand the need to invest in wellness and capacity building for nonprofit leaders.
Oh, the point of wellbeing really lands because I mean, we identify as a company as a startup, you know, we came from nonprofit, and they both have their own grind. And I think you put them together, people that you're working with, are moving at an incredible pace with a lot of pressure. What is, you know, what's your advice to them as you coach? Because I know you have slid into this role where you're coaching and mentoring so many that are facing this? How do you advise people to really not just weather but like thrive in the midst of such a challenging time or season of a business or a customer? Organization?
Yeah, it's such a great question and add COVID, right year, three of that the tragedies all around the world, every day, let alone family needs and supports. So there's just it's a huge burden. And I would say I don't have the answer. But again, I just hope that raise for good, for example, or everything you guys are doing, like if we all play our part, to better support nonprofit leaders, then I hope they feel that they have that little bit of extra energy or motivation to keep going and the burnout is so real. And so I hope we can show on both sides of the coin, that this change is really challenging, but it can also be joyful. And I believe that self care is hugely important. And I will say I'm a work in progress myself, right. And so for me, I'm really assessing, you know, what is my purpose? And how can I best contribute to moving the needle here, and for me, it is about still working on myself as a leader and a shift in my mindset. So I hope that building a community of like minded individuals will help other nonprofits feel less alone. And I hope we can bring in a sprinkling of new ideas and new ways of working to make this work more sustainable, while really playing that call to action and partnering with funders, to ease these burdens in the way that they do the grant making work,
I echo and reflect everything that you just said. And, you know, we had our last theme week was mental health week, last fall, fall 2021. And if anyone missed it, I highly encourage you to go back and go listen to it. And there's a reason that we wanted to wrap a week around just talking about our mental health. Because the biggest takeaway I took from that was, we're not okay, we are not okay, in the nonprofit sector in the social impact sector. And we have to start not only socializing, you know, these issues and what's happening, but we have to talk about them and figure out how to how to learn and grow and do something differently. When you're in community. You know, the compassion fatigue doesn't feel as acute, you know, the burnout doesn't feel, as you know, oppressive. And so I wonder just from an from an action standpoint, because we don't ever just want to be a community that talks, we want to get active. We want to change cultures, mindsets, and dynamics. You know, we have a wide listening audience, from nonprofit leaders to young professionals. And I wonder if you have just any advice for them, you know, whether you're a leader or whether you're a first time someone in the nonprofit, where could someone start on this journey for building more equity in their organization? What would be one little tip that you would give?
Yeah, absolutely. I think, again, this is a very complex question. But my hope for starters is that funders will do their part. Right. So going back to what you said around equity that will enable nonprofit leaders to offer more competitive packages. They should frankly, be paid more right for the work that they're doing. And how do we normalize that? How do we build capacity and leadership development for nonprofit leaders so that nonprofit leaders can walk the walk, be a model for their teams, the community Is that they serve often young people, to inspire them and collectively show that while the work that we do is so I think ingrained in our values, our identity often that if we're not, you know, taking care of ourselves, we can take care of others. So I think it starts with the funding side. I hope that will, you know, continue to change the way that nonprofits operate as well. And one example is an amazing organization called the Highland project, led by Gabrielle Wyatt, her background is in education and policy, she leads the Highland project, which is a leadership program and movement to invest in female black leaders to build generational wealth. And so one of their core pillars, their education, economic development, policy change is wellness. So getting radical about putting wellness at the front and center. So they both invest in black female leaders in those areas, and really, are putting so much weight around the realities of how critical wellness is. So it's, it's great to see her leadership there. And I'm excited to see other funders, for example, like Pinterest, and Harry's that focus on mental health, wellness and investing in leaders like Gabrielle, to be able to create that community ecosystem coalition's to actually do this work to solve huge, huge, you know, this will take generations to solve these issues.
I mean, I keep hearing you say the word hope, you know, and it's not lost on me that you're in this position where you see so much, and you see a lot of the good of humanity coming together to, but I do think you have such a great point that it's not going to work, if we just sit on this little podcast and say, here's the plan, like it's gonna take each of us going into the spaces that we have influence, and we have an ability to speak up privilege, and to lean into that and work at one funder at a time, one conversation at a time, because it is such a big systemic thing. And so I hope whoever's listening is thinking about who in their sphere of influence, they can start to have that conversation, because there is a lot of hope. And we're like ridiculous idealists around here, I always see the hope. And I guess I want to throw that together with a story from you, or you get to be, I mean, in these spaces where you see these partnerships come together to change the world or a community, you know, and I gotta think that philanthropy for you has a really deep meaning being on the fundraising side, and now it raised for good. What's a story of philanthropy that's really moved your heart and has stuck with you? We'd love to hear it.
Yeah, I mean, again, I'm very encouraged to have had the privilege of working with a lot of what I call authentic partners. And so I think there's probably many stories that I could tell. But one close to my personal life is working with a funder. And when Trobe who used to lead the at&t Foundation, and I was a fundraiser at, I think three or four organizations, where I got to know and, and partnered with her, and I had never experienced someone who truly wanted to listen and understand the problems really deeply in education, and youth development. And it changed my perception of funders, frankly, you know, I always, personally, being a fundraiser of color, there aren't many of us. Coming from my background, I felt that power dynamic very strongly. I'm a very high empath. And so she showed me that you can create true partnerships where they're honoring your lived experience that the level of respect and care that she brings to her approach to grant making and funding while also pushing the boundaries within that community and within huge organizations like an 18 T. They actually exist. So it's a little bit of encouragement to nonprofit leaders. And again, trying to connect the dots and you know, bring the right, the matches together. Really gave me hope. And yeah, through three or four jobs and funded me. She's an advisor for raise for good, we continue to partner and collaborate. We live in the same neighborhood. So just really encouraged by the power of authentic relationships.
I mean, what a great story. And I love that you just kind of connected with the shared love that you all had. And that is what connected you to each other. And it's just eerie, that you are actually proximity, very close. But it's so great because that in and of itself is going to lend itself to having more conversations about this. And I think when you surround yourself with to your point earlier, like minded people who are chasing the same things you are, you're doing it in community, and it doesn't feel as daunting. And so we end all of our conversations Maria with a one good thing. And we want to know what you would give to our audience today. If it's a mantra, quote, what's your one good thing? Yeah, I
think I just want to leave with a change can be joyful. It's painful, it's real. But I hope when we work together, we see each other as humans. And again, it's great to work with people who are like you, but I also encourage everyone to work with many people who are not like you. Again, I think there's some shared element that we can find as humans together. And yeah, just hope that we can continue building authentic relationships because I think that's how we're we're gonna we're gonna make progress.
Okay, Maria, How can everyone listening connect with you and connect with res for good and all the kind of share a little bit of what y'all have going on? And where you can find on social?
Yeah, absolutely. Well, you can shoot me an email Maria at race for good.com. Check out our website. We're on LinkedIn. And we're really focused right now on how do we address changing power dynamics and philanthropy? So we have conversations every few months. We love for you all to join. And yeah, I think really focusing on building capacity for for leaders of color is our focus so excited to be a part of this community.
Well, thank you so much. And I want to give a second plug just to go find Maria on LinkedIn. We've had such a heavy emphasis this year on one of the trends we're seeing emerging as leaders as thought leaders, and if you want a dynamic thought leader to follow Maria's post on LinkedIn, blow my mind, and I, there's not enough like there's not an opportunity for me to throw a GIF on there of like someone giving a standing ovation. But I love how you're showing up on LinkedIn. I love your word choice. I love your humility. And again, honestly, that hope is threaded in even the challenges that you present. So please go follow Murray on LinkedIn and just keep having your mind evolve. It's because we're all on this journey. And it's going to be better when we're in it together. So thank you, Maria. We're so just lucky to have this time with you and just rooting for you all in your team at race for good. Likewise, thanks so much.
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