You're listening to cubicle to CEO, Episode 197. Today's episode is the second installment in our word of mouth and referral marketing podcast series, this time featuring guest Sara McCabe as a leadership and operations consultant who helps her clients build better leaders, stronger teams and more efficient businesses. Sara put her own advice to the test by choosing to walk away from her tik tok account, she had built up to 17,000 followers and focus instead on generating referrals through past and current clients. This strategic decision resulted in a remarkable 40% increase in revenue referrals now driving 90% of her sales and an extra $46,550 in her pocket over the course of last year. What may surprise you most is why she doesn't incentivize referrals from her clients with monetary kickbacks and what she has found to work better instead. This hot take and more are uncovered in today's case study on leveraging the power of word of mouth referrals from your existing clients.
Welcome to cubicle to CEO the podcast. I'm your host, Ellen Yin, I quit my job without a backup plan and bootstrapped my first $300 freelance project into $2 million in revenue by age 28. On the show, you'll hear weekly case study interviews with leading entrepreneurs and CEOs who share one specific strategy that successfully grew their business revenue. Skip the expensive and time consuming learning curve of testing everything yourself by borrowing what actually works from the best and brightest mentors. You'll also get a front row seat to my founders journey through transparent income reports and behind the business solo episodes, subscribe now so we can grow together every Monday.
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Hello, friends, I am thrilled to welcome Sara McCabe to our show today. I first met Sara when she was our featured Norby creator of the month for our podcasts live after show which, if you don't tune in already, you should every month, we bring back our podcast guests for a bonus conversation. So so you get to be part of another one. I'm so happy that you could join us for a full conversation today, though.
Thanks so much for having me. I'm so excited to chat with you.
Well, Sara, I have so many questions. And I think that this case study is going to be especially appealing to our listeners who either are burnt out on social or they're only showing up on social because of this obligation that they feel and or have been told that, you know, you can only have a successful business if you have some sort of online presence, which, as you and I both probably agree is not always the case. So just for a little bit of context here for our listeners, what we're going to be talking to Sara about today is how she chose to walk away from her tik tok account that she had built up to 17,000 followers, and most of social media marketing in general, to instead focus on referrals, which now brings in about 90% of the total revenue in her business. And this one decision to focus on referrals actually led to a 40% increase in revenue over a one year window, which we'll get more into the numbers in just a moment. But that's the context. That's the background of the case study. Before we jump into the numbers and details, Sara, what's your cubicle to CEO story? Why don't you start us off there.
I feel like it's so maybe so similar to so many other people's, I had what I jokingly call a table flip moment. So I was at the time overseeing development for a retail company for North America. And it was one of my dream roles, I got to travel a lot. But I also had to work a lot. And I ended up burning out. And I just sort of was confronted with this choice of can I continue doing this, this doesn't really feel in alignment with my values. And so I was at work one day, and I just sort of had this realization that I needed to leave. And so I went ahead and I started interviewing and other companies, but they didn't feel like they were in alignment with my values. And really the change that I wanted to effect within businesses within companies within their teams. And so I felt like I didn't really have a choice, but to start my own business, so that I could really work closely with founders and start to implement those changes from the ground up. And so, you know, that's the Cliff Notes. But really, that was why I did it. I felt like I didn't really have a choice. But to do that.
That's a really interesting way to frame it. I'm not sure that any other guest has put it that way before. But I totally understand where you're coming from. It's not necessarily that you know that your circumstances forced you out in the in the traditional way of like, Oh, I was let go or I moved or you know, something happened externally to you. But I love that your catalyst was really driven from within and feeling that clear sense of purpose and understanding that you weren't fulfilling that fully. In your role. I think that that level of clarity is something that people sometimes it takes their entire career to really discover the way that you have.
No, absolutely. And I get that. I think that the interesting thing about I love what you say sort of that clarity and covering it, the way that that shows up in the work that I do that has evolved throughout, you know, the three and a half, almost four years now of my being in my own business. But that message of why I'm here that you're right, that's that's been pretty clear right from the start.
Well, I love hearing that. And just so our listeners who may be new to you have a little bit more of an understanding of the work you do as we're talking about your case study today. What is your primary service that you offer to your clients?
So everything is custom, which is everyone's least favorite thing to talk about. But that again is very much a part of my mission. Everything is bespoke for every client or company that I work with. Because I'm of the opinion that everyone needs something different depending on, you know, their circumstances, their context and their unique goals, my work is the same in that it's always going to be leadership or it's always going to be operations consulting. So those are two things that I focus on. But as far as the work itself, and what that looks like, it's a little bit different every time because everyone needs something a little bit different, which I love, I love the variety of that. But it is different each time.
I can totally relate to that, especially where we're at currently as, as a business ourselves with our media business model, every single brand partnership we create is also bespoke, right and to your point, we have to first understand what is the outcome that we're working towards in this partnership in order to build the deliverables or the the right channel around it, and to your point, I guess, for your clients, building that container, or the work that you do together around what outcomes they need support in. So I think that's very wise. And I actually would pull that out as a as an early takeaway for our listeners is that it's okay, if you don't have a one size fits all service. But being really clear on what your strengths are, is going to help you be able to better position yourself in and create those bespoke offers. So thank you for sharing that perspective there.
Of course!
Let's kind of Rewind, I guess, to the genesis of this decision. How were you tracking referrals already in your business? And can you walk us through that data collection process, and ultimately, the analysis process of where your clients were coming from, that led you to the realization of Oh, referrals are my primary way of growing my business, and this is the marketing channel, I really want to double down on.
Yeah, so I mean, first things first, at the start of that would have been 2022. up into that point, my thought process, my I mean, my strategy is still relatively the same, which is I want my business to grow. But more specifically, I want my business to grow in a way that is in line with my current capacity, whatever that might be, and also my values. And so when I was really looking at that, I wanted to see what was driving my business, I was getting burnt out with certain things. And I also felt like it wasn't entirely in alignment with how I wanted to show up with and for my clients. So before that my my biggest driver was me marketing, and acquiring leads through tik tok through Instagram, even through LinkedIn. But when I sat down to look at what was driving that traffic, I'd noticed even before I focused on it too, too much, the majority of it was still through referrals, you know, tik tok up into that point had driven about six grand in revenue, and about two more grand with brand deals. But again, it's not necessarily the type of business that I'm building. So that's not fruitful, although that's great for a bottom line, it's not actually fruitful in helping me build the business that I ultimately want to build.
So I use just very base level in clickup. I have just a pipeline. And so whenever someone inquires, part of that inquiry is I asked, Where did you find me? Did you get a referral? Who is that from? But oftentimes what happens is clients connect me directly. So that's happening via email, or that's happening in an Instagram DM conversation. But I do have those two ways of tracking. And I'll immediately update it in my ClickUp just in that customer pipeline for me to see what's happening, where it's coming from, because I also want to follow up, and I want to thank those clients, I want to say, hey, so and so came to me because of you, thank you, if there's anything else I can do for you, please let me know. So it's really simple. It's just me tracking it in ClickUp.
I love that. And I think I mean, simplicity is always going to win my heart over because I love anything that can be simple and implemented immediately. So I feel like this is one thing that any of our listeners if you don't already track where your traffic is coming from, especially if you're offering a more intimate one on one type of service, this is a great option for you that Sara just walked you through. So Sara, you were starting to understand, okay, I feel like my best referrals or my best clients are coming from referrals that's driving most of my sales. Did you come to the decision fairly quickly at that point that you were going to drop social or was this something you kind of like hmmed and hawed over for a long time? And if so, what was the final push that made you go okay, we're doing this thing like I'm walking away from tik tok.
So I think for me, one, you know, to grow my tik tok audience to even that 17k When I look at the time investment and the return on investment All right. So you are typically publishing one, if not two videos a day. And I look at the time that it takes for me to do that, and what's the return? What's the ROI on that. And when I look at, you know, 6k being generated, okay, 8k in total being generated after the amount of time, that's just not a great ROI. And that's when it made it feel like a very easy decision for me to make because the information is right there, it's not worth it for me to do that. And I think the second layer to that decision, not just even financially, the second layer to that was, are these the types of clients that are steering my business in the direction that I would like it to go.
What I mean by that is, you know, where are these clients at in their business journey. I, you know, prefer to help agencies, I help a lot of agencies, or people who are scaling to get to an agency. And so a lot of the audience that I was attracting on Tik Tok wasn't necessarily the most ideal. And I think that's, you know, another layer to that decision that made it feel very easy for me to say, look, this isn't gonna get me to where I want to go. And the ROI in terms of effort and time is just not there. When I look at where I could better spend my time, it's so much more strategic for me to invest that in ways of, you know, delivering a better client experience of following up of connecting with people and really building relationships, rather than me just sort of feeling like I need to pump out content, right. Like, I also think I found when I assessed where some of my favorite clients came from. And what I mean by favorite is the most aligned work that I'm passionate about doing and work, that's also again, getting my business to where I would like it to be, those were referrals. And that was because once you see that a lot of those people are connected, it's fantastic. And you're going to continue to get work with clients that are similar. And so that's, that's really why I made that decision.
I really admire your quick decisiveness around this issue coming from someone who tends to, you know, be very indecisive about, I guess, maybe not all things more minute things I will say, when it comes to bigger leaps of faith, I do also follow in your path where I kind of just make a bold decision and run with it. So I can relate. But I also admire your ability to really think through that process quickly. I did have actually kind of an aha moment, as I was listening to you talk I love the way that you pointed out are these clients that I'm getting from certain channels really directing people toward the vision of where I want to build my company. And as you were describing the type of people you most enjoy helping like agency owners or aspiring agency owners versus the type of people that were coming through from tik tok or other social channels. I also realized, it seems it's obvious now that I think about it. But for some reason, until you said that I didn't really think about it this way, if you work with agency owners, they're more likely to know other agency owners, right. Whereas if you if you work with people who are maybe freelancers or have no intention of ever, you know, scaling their business in that manner, the likelihood that they could send you a quality referral from within their network is much smaller. Would you say that assessment is accurate?
It's absolutely accurate. And it really wasn't until I made a pointed effort to even start building relationships with people who had agencies that I thought they were doing really amazing, fun work, that feels exciting to me. And just to connect with them. It really wasn't until I started to build relationships, that I even started to realize, oh, wait, they also know plenty of other, you know, agency owners who are also doing equally exciting things. And that was an aha moment for me as well. It's, it feels obvious, but you know, until you start doing it, it does feel a little bit scary. Now, it feels obvious. But at first, I was with you felt really scary, because I definitely think especially in the online business space, we are really, you know, receiving so many messages around how much content we need to put out all of the time. And yes, it totally depends on the type of business and your business model that you're building. But there are different ways.
Yes, absolutely. And I know that there's going to be so many listeners who are encouraged by this conversation because we were living proof that there can be other ways. I wanted to know when you decided to, you know, leave tik tok and leave social behind. Did you make any sort of announcement was this a public decision? Or was this just kind of like I'm just going to phase myself out from doing the stuff I'm doing on there.
You know what itself I need to hear you asked me that question because it didn't even feel like something that I needed to communicate. I really did. I just, I walked away. And I said, That's it, you know, tik tok can just live there. I'm gonna leave it alone. And I mean, I still get a lot of followers on there and it feels, I feel like I'm wasting it in a way. But it's also still again, it's just not really helping me get to where I want my business to go. So no, I didn't announce it to anyone. It was all behind the scenes changes that I made that I don't think anyone else would really notice. But yeah, it was all internal. I didn't I did not make an announcement at all.
You know, that's a great point. I think sometimes we not just we entrepreneurs, but we as humans, in general tend to feel that people pay much closer attention to our lives than they actually do. So you're probably right, that not a whole lot of people actually notice that you, you know made this change unless they went specifically to go look at your profile and go oh, you know, sir, hasn't posted in a while. I do want to ask though, because you mentioned to me prior to our interview that 90% of your revenue now comes from referrals. But there is still that 10% chunk that comes from social. So I know you haven't really created any new content for Tik Tok, but on some of the other channels like LinkedIn or Instagram, are you doing any form of new content creation on those accounts? Or are you also just kind of letting them be as they are?
No. And that's a great question, I still am putting out some content. But in terms of quantity, it is so drastically reduced. So on LinkedIn, I will maybe post three to four times a week. And that is typically stuff that I've talked about in my story and my story on Instagram. And I'll just make that into a post or a longer form piece of content. If I noticed something gets traction in a story on Instagram, I will either make it into a real if I feel like I can make it really visually IMPACTFUL that way. Or I'll turn it into a carousel post just because I feel like there was enough value in here that I want it to live permanently for people to be able to reference.
But typically, the thing that I keep up with the most is Instagram stories, and that I actually did some research, I actually asked my audience on there. And something that I said to them is, look, this is not about marketing at all. This is actually about me doing something that's in alignment with my values, something that I'm really passionate about is teaching is sharing information. And so I want to make sure that I'm still able to show up and give you something give you value, whether that is you know, I've made you think about something differently, or I've given you a tangible tool that you can take away or I'm sharing a tool that I'm using in my business that you know could be helpful for you and yours. I still want to do that. So what's the best way that I could do that? And I gave them the options. I said, I don't have capacity to do all of this, nor am I really interested. So you tell me what's the best way that I can do this for you. This is the goal, what's the best way. And they all said to me stories, keep showing up on stories keep sharing, and talking and teaching on stories.
And if you can turn that into the occasional reel, hey, we're happy to do that. So in terms of what that means in quantity, about every day, I'm up on Instagram stories. And that's because that's easy. It doesn't take much time. For me, I'm still connecting. And the part about this strategy that I really want everyone to understand is that I'm not trying to amass a large audience, what I'm trying to do is build a really solid connection with the people that do show up. And that's why I still want to show up every day on those stories. And I want to share what I'm up to, I want to share something that I'm working on with a client, I want to let them see, you know what I've accomplished things like that, that still allow us to feel connected, but it's not, you know, I'm showing up every day and creating reels, it's just a different way of serving them.
Absolutely. And I really appreciate that you made that distinction that Instagram stories as a feature as a tool is really designed for building and nurturing existing relationships rather than, like you said, acquiring new ones or reaching more people. And I liked the way that you also shared how you use it as a playground for testing different content ideas, right? So you know, okay, is this worth actually spending time creating a permanent post around or am I just riffing, you know, face to camera. So
That I think you know, and I'm sure we'll get into it a little bit more. But the interesting thing that I find is often the people that end up following me are clients so a client might mention me to someone else. And I think we just live in a time where the first thing that people do is land on your Instagram profile often before we even land on a website. Right So I want that to feel current. I want that to feel up to date. And I still am growing not very quickly. But the people that are coming are often coming because clients are saying, Hey, I worked with Sara McCabe, check it out. And that's where they're landing. So I want them to feel like, it's not a ghost town, that I'm here, I'm still working, I'm doing things. And this is what it looks like.
Yes, yes, yes. And, you know, you're actually not the only one of my friends in this industry who only show up on stories primarily, and aren't really actively creating content for you know, their feet or whatnot, because it is such a strong relationship builder and their intentions, same as you are not to grow an audience, but rather to nurture their existing one. So thank you for that distinction and and perspective. Once you stopped actively creating content daily on tik tok and feeling like you needed to create feed content on Instagram all the time. Did you notice any immediate changes from like your work schedule in terms of how much time you were working in your business? Did you notice any immediate changes in revenue or any other just observations that you made that maybe you were surprised by?
I think the biggest thing that I noticed was how my workdays felt. And more specifically, they felt a little less chaotic for me, because it didn't feel like I was juggling so many things at once. It really felt like I said, Look, client work and clients come first before absolutely everything. And when you take something off of your plate, like having to create one or two pieces of content every day, that actually opens up a lot of time. And so what I felt like was I didn't feel and I can't quite find the right word. But oftentimes, you know, clients messaged me a lot on Slack, we're having a lot of slack conversations, if we're troubleshooting something, or I'm recording a loom video. And when you feel like you're sort of being pulled in a lot of directions, there is that hectic feeling or that sort of, like frantic feeling of I have to do this. And I have to do this, and I have to do this. And then I have to edit it. And now it's just sort of these people are my priority. My clients are my priority. This comes first before everything.
And I made some adjustments to my behind the scenes time. So you know, I only take client meetings on Tuesday, Wednesdays and Thursdays. And that really gives me time on Monday and Friday for me to do behind the scenes stuff in terms of my business, writing long form content, because I do have another business that I'm building, so it allows me time to do that. So I just feel like I have a little bit more spaciousness. And I'm a little bit more focused on the task at hand, rather than feeling like I'm trying to accomplish nine different things in a day.
I could not resonate more deeply with that if hustle culture was the name of the game for the last like decade, I feel like spaciousness and this feeling of being unhurried is like the ultimate goal and dream of this next decade. Right. So I, I'm with you, 100%. There. Let's talk a little bit about the the numbers in this case study. So, you know, like I mentioned at the beginning of our conversation, your revenue increased by 40%. Over the course of the first year that you implemented, focusing on referrals. Can you break down what that 40% actually look like in terms of dollar amounts? How many clients? What you know what that service kind of looks like in regards to that?
Yeah, absolutely. So it was that 40% equaled about 47,000, I want to say specifically was 46 550, to be exact. And that came from just six referrals. And again, I think that's indicative of the type of business that I have and the service that I have. And that was also one of those drivers. At the start of 2022. My biggest focus was to take on less clients, but to have them be longer term projects and bigger projects. And so those six clients equaled out about $47,000.
Wow, that's amazing. And are most of your clients typically, retainer clients that work with you month after month, or they usually projects based just out of curiosity?
They're all project based. So I am carrying two retainer based clients. That is something that I offer Once I've completed a project if I feel like it's something that's going to be helpful for the client, but typically they're all project based. And I would say, on average, minimum, my projects are about five months, four to five months, typically.
Okay, yeah. So they're pretty extensive. I mean, yeah, right. Yeah. You can only really You have so many on hand at a time to to do that type of work. I would love to know, you mentioned earlier that many of your clients, they take the initiative of connecting you to new potential clients through email or whatever means they want. Have you really developed any sort of process around? Here are some great check in points for when I can ask for a referral that you have found worked well? And what what does that look like?
Yeah, absolutely. I think the most important thing to remember is referrals and the amount of referrals you get are a really great metric for how successful your services. And so I let everyone know, right from the get go. At the second meeting, Mark, at the end of our second meeting, we are going to sit down and we're going to talk about how is this going? What's working for you what's not working for you in terms of workflow, communication, all of those things. And I think it's really important to do that early on. I know some people might think, hey, that's really early on to do a check. And you've only had two meetings, but that's about a month. That's about a month of working with someone. And so, you know, we both have an idea of what's working, maybe what's not working for you, what do we need to adjust? And so we can course correct, because we still have typically another three months together. So at that two month mark, I'll see how's it going? How are you feeling? What are you liking? What do you not liking? And we'll make those adjustments.
I do find before I even wrap with clients, like you said, they're saying I already told people about you already told so and so about you anticipate that they're going to reach out to you. And I attribute that to so much of the client experience. Right. So that is such a huge driver, I think for referrals, how do people feel from the moment you send a proposal to the moment that you are officially onboarding them? And then that work? Yes, that's a huge part of it. But client experience is also a huge driver for people just feeling so excited about what you're going to do together, that they're already telling people about what it's like to work with you.
And it's true. Now that I'm hearing you say this that sometimes client referrals don't always look like, Oh, hey, so and so you should talk to Sara and I want to connect you guys right now. But sometimes it is just the pure excitement, overflowing like, Oh, I just hired this person, Sara, and I've been working with her and like, it's been doing this in my business. And just tangentially there. You know, the person that's receiving that feedback is like, Oh, well tell me more about Sara and like, How can I connect with her? So that's, that's a really great point, I wanted to take a moment to ask you this hot take, because you just brought this up the importance of investing in the client experience. So traditionally, a lot of people as you know, Sara, and as you've tried yourself, which I'd like to hear your take on this. A lot of people incentivize referrals by offering their clients or their friends or their networks like, Hey, if you send me someone, I'll pay you maybe, you know, a percentage of their project fee or, you know, a flat rate commission, whatever that looks like. And so monetary incentives are heavily used in the referral industry. But you have a unique stance on this, where you feel that money is better spent reinvesting back into improving the client experience, rather than paying clients for future clients. So tell us about your hot take. How did you come to this conclusion? What led you here?
I mean, again, I think so much of it was was a trial and error. So in the first year of my business, I actually did try that I did try incentivizing people. And I found that I got no traction from it, or comedically, a couple people did send referrals my way. And when I followed up to say, hey, here's, you know, the money that I said, or these are your two options, you can get, you know, a meeting with me or I can just give you the money, what what would you like, people refused it. They're like, I don't need anything. I'm happy to share what you're doing. I think more people need to work with you. So it didn't, I didn't really get any traction.
So the money that I would get from or sorry, the money that I would send to someone, if they sent a referral my way I now just gift so I will send a gift. As a thank you, I will send an email immediately after I will send a gift I always send my clients gifts. So that's how I'm reinvesting. Rather than trying to incentivize and I you know, maybe this feels a little bit cutthroat. But I think if you have to incentivize, and I do see, you know, incentives working for other models, depending on you know, how much your services are, what it is that you're selling products, things like that totally incentives can work, but for The work that I do, I think if I have to incentivize people, again, it's saying that the health of my services, the quality of my services, maybe lacking and I would need to address that first, before I'm throwing out money to try to incentivize people to do that.
Yeah, I totally respect your experience in that. And I mean, sitting here on the other end, I'm kind of thinking through my own experiences, like who are the people I've been most likely to refer in the past. And while yes, I never scoff at, you know, receiving a gift, or, or you know, a payout, which is lovely. Most of the time, the people that I'm the biggest advocates for people that I feel a genuine like loyalty, or connection to because they have positively impacted my life in some way or my business in some way. So I definitely see the truth and what you're sharing here, you mentioned, one way that you've reinvested the funds that you would have in the past may be paid out as a commission, you've now reinvested towards client gifts instead, which I think is so fun, that's like the most delightful thing in the world to go to your mailbox and see a package and never gets old. Are there any other things in the client experience that you have really pour time into improving that you feel have made the biggest difference in creating those, you know, those really strong bonds that would incentivize a referral?
Yeah, absolutely. So as a systems person, I mean, that's something that's always been dialed in. So yes, I have, you know, automations. In dubsado, I have a client portal set up in notion I have myself set up in clickup. So those things are sort of, you know, what I would call a standard of things that we need to have set in place, but where I like to show up and really make it feel like something that is uniquely for that person, those two founders, whomever it is, I will always do a welcome video. So I do a welcome video, walking them through their client portal. And I do first round of work together. So I typically kick off every project with an internal analysis. And so because that one is a little bit more complex in nature, we're looking at a lot of the business.
Often what I like to do just to make sure that everyone feels at ease everyone's understanding of what's going on. I do that walkthrough video saying, Welcome, I'm so excited to kick off this project. I walk them through the timeline, the deliverables, once more, there's, you know, an FAQ there. So if they have any basic questions, it's all there. And then once we're ready to officially kick off, and we're walking through that internal analysis, I do another video where I'm walking them through everything, just so that they feel like I'm really there with them, taking them through this. And they feel how important they are to me, in our work together. So I think those two things right off the bat, really provide the clarity in terms of communication, what the process of our work is going to be like, what you can expect in timeline and deliverables. And you also get that excitement because I'm showing up and I'm you know, saying hi, welcome. I'm so excited you're here. And so it feels a little bit more personal in that way. And then those check ins that I'm doing throughout the project, I think really drive that home for my clients,
I can totally see how that strong of an onboarding and how that personalize of an onboarding process really builds affinity with you from the get go. And it actually reminds me of I don't know the exact stats around this. But research has shown that the moment in time in a customer's journey where they feel the highest buyer's remorse is right after they purchase, right? You think on your side you're like this is the most exciting part is like when you get that new sale as a as a business owner. But on the flip side, the other person's like all of a sudden doubting themselves like, Wait, did I actually make the right choice? So the fact that you show up with an equal level of, you know, excitement, and really lead them through that initial phase of their work with you, I'm sure. Leaves, obviously, I mean, just based on this case study alone, it obviously does leave a very lasting impression. So that's really, really smart. I love that you do that. I'm curious for those who are not as what is the word self initiated in providing you referrals? You mentioned that you do a check in after the second meeting with them. Are there any other checkpoints even beyond like after you've wrapped a project with a client where you are following back up? And what what do those opportunities for asking for a referral look like?
Yeah, absolutely. So something that I'm a huge advocate for is immediately collecting feedback. And I cannot stress enough how quickly I do that. So that's something that I let the client know in our last meeting. I tell them right away. Tomorrow, you can expect an email from me, it's your turn to give me feedback. And I'm already expressing gratitude for them taking the time to do it, I'm letting them know, it's only five minutes. But in that, you know, feedback questionnaire, I have very pointed questions about, what were you worried about before you signed on to work with me? What were your hesitations? Or reservations? Were you expecting something that you didn't get? How would you describe our work together? How would you describe, you know, me to someone else? Yeah, you know, a very specific pointed questions, and I'm following up. So as soon as they are submitting that questionnaire to me, I'm following up.
And I have found that that's the perfect place to one say, thank you so much for that feedback. I love how you described working with me. And on that note, is there anyone else that you think could benefit from this work? Because they're in that post project glow? Right? They are so excited. We've worked together for five months, we've done so much together, they feel really excited. They've just told me how excited they are. And so it's the perfect opportunity for me to follow up and say, Is there anyone else like Who else can we help? You know, you've seen what we've been able to do. And so I have found that to be a really great place to follow up. And if someone doesn't have anyone, right then in there, as you mentioned, I wrap my client projects up with six months worth of objectives and key results. So at the end of those six months, that's part of my clickup, it sends me a reminder saying so and so is now wrapped there six months, follow up with them. And so I will follow up just checking in seeing how everything's going, are they able to accomplish? Do they run into anything, sometimes we do just a small troubleshoot or something like that. But again, they're typically saying, Wow, I accomplished so much. I still love absolutely everything we've done together. And it's another opportunity for me to say if there's anyone else that you know, think could benefit from this, I'd love to be connected to them right now.
So if I'm understanding correctly, your typical project with a client lasts about five months. And then at the end of your time together, you're sharing over the next six months after this, these are the key metrics that should be happening for you in your business. And then you have a follow up six months after you wrapped the initial project to do that check in Did I understand that? Yep. Okay, amazing. And, okay, I want to ask you about like, if someone says, Yeah, I do have, you know, a friend that I think would be really great or appear or whatever, and they refer them to you? How do you then initiate the conversation with the person they mentioned? Are you putting them in a threeway email so that, you know, the stranger that you're emailing has context? Are you leaving the initial referral person out of it entirely? How do you word that email, any any tips or insight you want to share there?
It typically goes one of two ways. So they will say, Can I introduce them to you? Great. So then it is sort of a three way. They'll say, "Hey, this is Sara, I've already told you about her. She does XYZ, Sara meet so and so they have an agency. And these are the problems that they're running into. I think you guys could do some great work together, I'll leave you to it." So that's sort of the first way that it happens. And the second way is they will pass along a name to someone else. And that individual will either fill out a questionnaire and that's when they'll say, I heard about you through so and so. So those are the two ways that I have found.
Oh, okay, got it. And I feel like one of your strengths, which I'm sure you're aware of, but I just have to, you know, reflect it back to you is, I think you ask really quality questions to your clients. And my two favorite ones that you mentioned just a moment ago in your feedback form for your clients that finish working with you. The one about what is something you expected to get that you didn't get? I'm like, Oh, that's such a great way to pull out unmet expectations in a way that doesn't feel threatening, right? Like, not like, oh, however disappointed you are like, what are you unhappy about? Right? I feel like sometimes it can feel awkward to ask that question. But the way you positioned it, it doesn't feel awkward. Like I would feel comfortable as a client being like, Oh, well, maybe I thought we were going to do this thing. And we didn't end up doing it for whatever reason. So I really, really loved that question.
And then your other question, like, how would you describe me to someone else? Like, oh my gosh, that's genius. So I just wanted to pull that out again, for our listeners, in case you missed it. Make sure you write down those two questions. When you receive let's say a glowing response to the the latter question the one about you know, how would you describe me to your friend or whoever Do you repurpose those in any way? Are you using them as like screenshot testimonials? Or are those more for your private feedback?
Oh, no, that's getting shared absolutely everywhere that I can share it. I don't think that that's also just, it's far more impactful for other people to see how other people describe working with you, right? I sit here and say that I do X, Y, and Z very well. But if you know, my testimonials aren't backing that up, then it doesn't really hold weight. And so I'm a huge advocate for absolutely sharing that feedback, those testimonials everywhere. If I get a particularly glowing review, and it's a project that I felt like highlights, the work that I'm doing, I will go ahead and make a case study out of it. So you know, something that's far more in depth, so people can get an even clearer look at what does it look like to work with Sara? You know, more specifically, what do these people say about all aspects of the project. So if it's a really great review, I will turn that into a case study, which is just even more feedback from the client, and even more testimonials from them. So I am the first person to say, share that everywhere that you absolutely can, it's going up on my website, it's going on Instagram, it's going on the stories, and it's being turned into a case study if I can.
So for our listeners who maybe have never created a case study out of a client result before and maybe they've relied up to this point solely on, you know, screenshots or these quick little snippets. Can you maybe walk us through how you structure your case studies? Like if someone writes this glowing review? How are you that what kinds of other follow up questions? Are you asking your client to pull the information you need for your case study? And how do you organize the flow of the case study? Like if I were to, if you were to visually describe me reading your case study? What would that look like?
Yeah, absolutely. So I think first and foremost, I really want to paint a picture. Because I also think this helps us attract more ideal clients. And it also helps people understand what it looks like to work with you what they can anticipate, which again, just all contributes to conversion. And it also contributes to a really enjoyable experience, I am meeting their expectations, because they had a very clear idea of what to expect right from the start. So in terms of structure, I always start off with sort of a snippet of where were they at? What was happening in the business in terms of, you know, pain points that they were experiencing? What was their business at in terms of its growth, or its journey? And where do they want to go? So it's a really quick snapshot of where are they at? Where do they want to go.
And from there, I break it down into each phase of the project. So people can see, these were the pain points that I was, you know, shared. And then this is exactly what we did together over the five months, step by step, you can see absolutely everything. And then what I do in terms of gathering more insight from the client, I'm really asking them pointed questions about each one of the deliverables from that specific project. So for example, you know, it's how does it feel now to have the onboarding program that you have? Or how does it feel to have the workflow that you have with your entire team? What's that done for the business? So I'm really trying to get a deeper insight into how it's impacted their business, how it felt for them to build that with me. And then we always wrapped with just that big picture. Can you tell us a little bit more about what it was like to work with Sara, her process, the way that she engaged with you? So again, people have a deeper understanding of what it's like to work with me.
I think the big takeaway for me here is, the more pointed as you say, Your questions are the better data, the better feedback, you're going to be able to pull. So I really appreciate all of your transparency today, Sara, not only in sharing, you know, the finances around your case study and what that 40% revenue increase look like. But really walking us tactically through how you're applying that in your business. I know our listeners are going to get so much value out of that. And hopefully, each of you can pull at least one thing from what they're shared today and apply it to your own business. But for those of you who are itching to get a little bit deeper and want to actually work with Sara, yourself, Sara, where can people connect with you? What are the things that you're working on right now that you want people to know about?
I mean, first you could always go to my Instagram, which was @saramccabeconsulting you and I laughed about this last time I was like it just the most basic. But go to Sara McCabe, it's all you can go to my website, SaraMcCabeconsulting.com, but I also just launched a second project. And the handle for that on Instagram is @dobusinesscasual, and that is all about management and leave leadership training. So if they want to work on people skills or anything like that, there's still a lot of really rich, helpful tools for them over there as well.
I am obsessed with that name. I'm such a sucker for good branding. And that's a really that's a really cute one.
I have maybe I'm a little bit biased, but I'm obsessed with it. I think it looks really cool.
Yeah. Wow. Well, I can't wait to check out that project myself. I didn't know about that one. So, Sara, thank you again for your time today and for sharing your insights. And everyone. If you want to check out the links that Sara just mentioned, we will drop them below for you in the show notes. All right. I'll catch you all in the next episode. Thank you, Sara.
Thank you.
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