How to Handle Inflation and Pricing Without Creating Price Resistance

7:28PM Jan 6, 2022

Speakers:

Tracy Matthews

Jason Ayers

Keywords:

price

jewelry

people

jason

inflation

business

buy

boot camp

pricing

goods

money

brand

selling

working

orders

demand

cost

piece

shipped

very complex topic

Everything's everything is a function, everything is a percentage of that sales price that you make. So if your costs go up what needs to happen to your price if you want to put the same amount of money in your pocket,

You have to raise your prices.

You have to raise your prices to maintain your margins, or you have to cut your expenses somewhere else.So you have to, for example, become better at marketing or better at sales or better at advertising, so you can do it more efficiently to offset the increase in costs somewhere else.

Welcome to thrive by design, the podcast for ambitious independent jewelry brands, looking to profit from their products, get ready to make more and sell more doing what you love, without spending every single waking minute doing it. Hey, and if you're a creative fashion or product based business, I want to welcome you to the show. I'll be dropping big tips on launching, growing and scaling your business. So you can spend more of your precious time using your creativity to make money. You ready? Alright, let's do this.

Welcome to the thrive by design Podcast, episode 335. Hey there, it's Tracy Matthews, chief visionary officer flourish and thrive Academy. I'm here with a very special guest, Jason Ayers. Jason, welcome to the show.

Thank you.

I usually do my intro of our guest in a separate recording, but I'm just gonna do it while you're here. So for those of you who don't know who Jason is, you should go to my podcast and listen to all the episodes that we've done together. Because they are all incredible. A lot of them are focused around mindset, and optimizing your business, optimizing maybe your mind to optimize your business, which is amazing. Jason is the mindset coach in our momentum program. He is also my partner in life and an amazing business coach, he works with 1 to $10 million companies helping them optimize and streamline their business, so that they can increase their profit margins and live a better life doing what they love. So, Jason, I'm happy to have you here to explain a very complex topic today. But you're not saying anything, you're just shaking your head.

I'm waiting for you to itroduce me. It's very complex topic.

Well, before I introduce this very complex topic, which we're going to try to simplify as much as possible. I wanted to just mention that January's a very special month we just launched into the new year and every year at flourish and thrive Academy, we like to kick off the year with a boot camp or a training or something to help really build community around around our community help build community and create community around our community. And also to really add a lot of value to your life. So we're bringing back one of my favorite boot camps. It is called The Jewelry Brand Makeover Boot Camp. This boot camp is back by popular demand, we ran it for several years. And we've just elevated the content. We've upgraded all of the trainings and everything that we're doing, and we're bringing it back for a limited time, we're going to be hosting it from January 24. through January 27. I'm bringing in special guests and mentors. And the purpose of this bootcamp, which you might be wondering, is to help you elevate your brand voice and create a connection with those perfect customers who are waiting to find you so that you can expand your audience, grow your sales and make more this year. So if you're interested in joining us for that it is a must participate in boot camp, head on over to flourish, thrive academy.com forward slash makeover boot camp. We'll also have a link in the show notes. But make sure you RSVP. Now we are going to start the pre party in our group really soon. And we'd love to have you play with us. That's a lot.

Anyway, Jason, I'm excited to have you here because we're going to be talking about inflation and how that really affects your pricing strategy for a jewelry business. And I know that pricing is one of the most sensitive topics. So I wanted to have you come in here and help us break down and simplify as much as we possibly can. Something that can seem to be complex and overwhelming. And one of the reasons why this came up I just want to give a quick backstory is that we were having dinner one night, and where I was telling you about a consulting client that I was working with. She booked a call with me to talk a little bit more about her pricing strategy. She has a very successful business. She's already doing close to half a million dollars, but she's making zero money. In fact, she was really struggling to actually even pay for her business licenses or renew them. And she couldn't figure out why and so we dove deep into pricing and I think this episode is going to help that person, I'm not going to reveal the brand. Obviously, this is that's private information. And this comes on the heels of us talking with thousands and thousands of students over the years that we've been in business over here at flourish and thrive Academy. And one of the number one struggles people have is to clearly, number one, clearly understand how they should be pricing their jewelry. And number two, like how to get to a place where they feel confident in raising their prices, without feeling like they're going to repel all the customers that they have. And inflation is happening, whether we like it or not, so we got to really address this head on. So first and foremost, I would love for you to give us an explanation. And the definition of what inflation is to really simplify this for people.

I'll tell you what, I'll give you a definition. And I'll give you an example. That'll make it really clear. So inflation is essentially a decline in the purchasing power of a given currency over a period of time. So your money buys less over a period of time, if you have inflation. If you have deflation, that's the opposite. You can buy more over time. So let's let's look at a real quick example. So in 1980, a one pound loaf of bread. I know we're talking about jewelry, and we're totally gonna get to that and how it applies. But in 1981 pound loaf of bread costs 50 cents. In 1990, it was 75 cents in 2000, it was $1.99. And by 2010, it was $2.99. So that means basically that something that costs $50.19 80 cost $300 in 2010. So if let's say you were on a fixed income, now let's say you're retired, you're on a fixed income and your income is not adjusting for inflation. Well, your money is going to buy less and less every year, if there's real inflation happening. So inflation is a real thing it's called it's by a lot of people's called the hidden tax. Because you're not cutting a check for it, you're not sending essentially sending money to the government, your money is just sitting there in your bank account. And it's buying its buying power is going down over time. So you're essentially, they're essentially taking wealth from you through the inflation of the currency.

So to bring this back to jewelry terms, another example that we could bring is in 2018, the price of gold per ounce was $1,200. And now in 2021, as we're recording this, it's right before 2022 happens. So we recording it before the New Year. The gold spot price is that $1,800 An ounce. And so in the three years period of time, it's increased by $600 an ounce, which is a great indicator of things that you need to look at. So go ahead, Jason, you're about to say something.

Yeah, I was I was gonna say what, you know, one of one of the reasons why. One way to think about this is that cash for example, or if you have a US do not, you know, dollar denominated account at a bank account, you're thinking of that as a store of wealth. So you have wealth, which is essentially your ability to buy something, your buying power, and it's a store of wealth and different stores of wealth. Stand up better than others. Right. So when a when a currency goes through an inflationary period, it ends up buying less money. So it ends up being not a great store of wealth, for example.

So yeah, the current currency, right. But gold becomes a an amazing store of wealth. That's why people might end up buying gold at a time like this, too, because it stores it keeps the value. Is that something...

that that was the old thinking. So that was the old thinking the US used to be on the gold standard until the Bretton Woods Accord was signed, which took us off the gold standard, because we essentially needed to print more money to fight wars. So we didn't have enough gold to pay for the war effort. So we went off the gold standard. And then the challenge when you know the challenge for a government who's off the gold standard when they have a debt. So for example, China carries a lot of US debt in terms of US Treasuries. And those, those treasuries have an interest rate tied to them. When the government needs to pay its bills. And they don't have the money to pay it. They have two options. They can tax you, which is unpopular, or they can print more money. So it's a very easy thing for the government to say hey, let's just print more money. When they do that, when you have more money chasing the same amount of goods, those goods tend to go up in price.

Right.

So this is where you see the price increase.

So this is where you see things like the housing markets in certain areas, spiking right now lumber prices spiking gas prices spiking. Is that true?

Yes. So you have, well, you have a number of you have a number of factors that play into inflation. And I'm a big fan of there's a site called Investopedia, which you can just look up inflation. And it has some great examples. So there, there are three main causes of inflation. One is demand poll. So imagine that there are 100, high end designer handbags, in a limited run, there's only 100 sold globally, are they going to be more expensive or less expensive, than if you were to make 10,000 of those?

More expensive, of course.

More expensive, theres more demand. There's demand because it's scarse. You see this in the art world for example where, espcailly when an artist is no longer with us right? When they're already deceased.They're not going to make anymore art. which means there's a finite qunatity of that art. And if it's popular and have a bunch of people essentially fighting over it to see who can pay more to see who can own it. So, the price goes up merely because the demand goes up. And there's another thing that can create inflation which is cost. That's cash push inflation. So let's say that you are a semi fine jeweler and the price of precious metal goes up.

Silver.

Let's say silver goes up. Let's say silver goes up by 50%. So, the sales that you make. everything that happens in your business is essesntially function of the sales that you make. So you can imagine thta you hand somebody an earing for let's say $100. And you get out a pair of scissors and you cut off a little piece for taxes,a nd you cut off another little piece for labor that went on to making it. And you cut off anothe little piece for advertising. you cut off a piece for marketing, and you cut off a piece for the cost of the goods sold which includes the components of that ring that you made. Everything is a function, everything's a percentage of that sales price that you made. So if your costs go up, what do you say happen to your price if you want to put the same amount of money in your pocket?

You have to raise your prices.

You have to raise your prices to maintain your margins, or you have to cut your expenses somewhere else.So you have to, for example, become better at marketing or better at sales or better at advertising, so you can do it more efficiently to offset the increase in costs somewhere else.

Exactly. Okay. So this is great, because we're we're in this phase and of cost of things going up, you know, More money's in circulation, at least here in the United States, because money is being printed. So people are like concerned, like, what do you do? Do you raise prices? Do people have less income to spend? Or like, how should we be thinking about this? And so one of the things, one of the key points that I want to make today is that hopefully, as you're thinking about who you're serving and the customers that you want to reach, hopefully those people aren't the ones as affected by inflation, because you want to be attracting those customers who genuinely just have more disposable income, right?

Well, and so we're recording this right, right towards the end of 2021. And the reason why I bring that up is that there are three things going on right now. So there's demand pull contributing to inflation. So demand, there's there's more demand right now. And that's partially due to the fact that we have supply chain issues. So we were recently out in California, and I was looking out off the coast of Long Beach, where the Long Beach Pier is. And there was this huge line of ships. And I was saying to myself, wow, there's not a supply problem, globally, but there's a supply problem within the United States because there's the supply and it's sitting off the coast and it's not here, which means we can't buy it until it gets through customs and it gets put on trucks and trains and everything else and shipped everywhere. So that creates this this demand pull. Now the next part of the problem is there's their rising costs going up. Because if you're a producer of goods, right if you're making jewelry, you're seeing your prices go up. And then there's something called built in essentially built in, and that's where wages are going up because of the cost of living. And I recently saw, for example, a fast food restaurant was offering $18 An hour plus a signing bonus. And you don't see signing, you don't and, you know, normally you don't see signing bonuses for entry level jobs that are meant to be just just an entry point into the, into the market.

So if cost of labor is going up, cost of materials is going up, and there are fewer items around, then that's off all three factors that impact inflation, on top of which you have the government over the last 12 months has printed about or added about 24% more money into the economy. So let's say that you're selling only one ring, and it's in high demand, people really want it. And all of a sudden, you know that everybody has an extra million dollars in their pocket. Because the government has been adding all this money into the economy, sending people checks, and trying to stimulate the economy, what are you gonna do with your price?

Raise it.

You're gonna raise your price, because you're going to know that people can afford more. And the reality is, transactions occur at that point where the buyer feels like they're getting more value than what they're giving you. So if they, if you're charging $100, and they feel like they're going to get more value, it's going to be more valuable to feel the way they're going to feel to wear that ring. Especially if you've created a bunch of demand around it using something like the Desired Brand Effect, where you create a story around it, and you create, you know, this entire kind of brand that they get to be a part of and get to discuss with their friends. If they feel that it's worth more than what's in their pocket, and that's the price you're charging, they're going to give you the money, you're going to give them the ring, they're going to go off, and they're going to tell their friends a great story, and they're gonna feel like they got a great value.

We call that perceived value in the jewelry.

Yeah.

So this is why it's important to really communicate the value of the pieces you design, because at that point, it becomes easy to actually raise your prices.

Yeah, do you ever I saw earlier I talked about demand pole being a factor. And so some of these various, you know, the high end luxury goods market, they've done a lot to create a lot of demand, perceived demand, perceived value, they built status into, into their products, right, you'll you buy that and you get this increased status symbol, you feel better when you buy it. So there are things you can do. Like I get that you may be maybe may be afraid that oh my gosh, if I raise my prices, I'm going to lose sales, right, I'm gonna lose overall sales. And although I might make a little more margin, I'm going to I'm going to make less overall because I'm going to make fewer sales. Well, there are things you can do about that. That's one of the reasons why flourish and thrive exists is to help you position your products in a way to where they have higher perceived value, people actually want them. And I'll tell you an interesting story about this. So they took a group of people, a group of participants, and they wanted to see if they could accurately guessed the quality of wine based on the pricing. So they had three different that three different wines. One was an inexpensive wine, one was moderately, moderately priced and one was expensive. And naturally, after the people tasted it, and they rank them, they rank the inexpensive wine is not being very good. The moderate wine was was pretty good, but it was not as good as the high priced wine, which was really good. Later on, they revealed that they were all the same wine with different price tags. So in the absence in the absence of something else, right? We tend to judge value relatively. But if I can't, if I don't have something that I can use to compare your product against, I'm going to I'm going to go off a price. And it's more expensive, it's probably better. Like if that's the only thing I have to judge, Judge judge it on, it's probably better.

You make fun of me all the time for this because you're like that shirt, that T shirt you just bought, like you're probably black for $10. And I spent $65 on it.

But But how do you feel when you buy it?

It feels like it's a better t shirt. It's so soft.

Right? Right, in a way in a way we in a way we convince ourselves, right? Because these things are subjective.

Right?

So we're judging them off. Yeah, we're judging them off of other factors. And, you know, a big part of it is the story behind your brand and why you're doing what you're doing and if you're creating it with a purpose and all of these things things that you talked a lot about in your, in your book The Desire Brand Effect.

This is true. So, you know, we're talking about brand positioning, creating desire with your, your products and your brand in basically increasing the perceived value so that you can charge more. But I want to just share just some a couple of tangible takeaways that you can get from this. So the first thing that I want you to really take a look at is, it's the beginning of the year, it's time for a makeover, maybe you can join us for the Jewelry Makeover Boot Camp, where we're going to dive deeper into some of these topics that we're talking about today. And this is a great time for you to check in like with your suppliers really do a deep dive analysis on your pricing and your costing structure to make sure that you are pricing your products properly. Because if you aren't getting the right cost of goods sold to retail margin, if you're selling direct to consumer and or if you're selling wholesale, and you're not marking up your products, enough to really be sold at wholesale, you're going to put yourself in a really bad situation. And to go back to that story at the beginning that I was talking about. This was the problem, this designer that I was working with was pricing everything like for what she would want to sell it for retail, but then she had to go back and reduce the prices. Like that's how she was thinking about like reduce the prices, so that she could sell wholesale, but she wasn't getting a proper wholesale margin, which is really, really important. If you sell to stores, you need to make sure that you're making the right markup on those pieces, or else you will go out of business really quickly.

And there's a reason for this. You know, typically when we're selling bigger orders or volume orders or things where we're, you know, making like 30 pieces and shipping an order to a store. There's a couple of factors at play. Number one, we buy the materials way before we get paid for them. It might be 30 days, it might be 60 days, it might be and you might be thinking, well, Tracy, I take the credit card when I shipped the order. But that's not when you're actually buying the supplies and paying for the manufacturing or the labor to get those orders placed. So there's always going to be somewhere a lag time between 30 to 120 days, from the time that that order is placed for how how your cash is going out of your business. So if you don't have enough margin in that more money ends up going out and you end up in a cash flow deficit, which is really challenging for business. That's when you see, I've been there before. And so I know exactly why this happens. You see people who rack up their credit cards to finance their orders, they get lines of credit, and then they end up completely broke because they have no way to pay off those bills. And even though they're selling a lot, their profit margin sucks. So this is really important to get honest with yourself. And this happened in 2008. To me, because the commodities market as I mentioned earlier, gold prices spiked tremendously, from 2007 to 2009, to between 2007 and 2009 when the when the market crashed, and probably even a little bit before that. But we were pricing goods based on the old prices of the gold because it was almost like it happened overnight. And it was really devastating to a lot of companies. So they'd placed orders three months before with their vendors and they got orders placed with the stores that they were selling to but there's like you know, a 90 day window of when they had to ship the orders.

And during that time from the time that they placed the orders the commodities market completely spiked. And so diamonds were up, gold was up precious metals, all precious metals were up. semi precious stones were up like all the materials that you use, especially in the precious and semi precious categories that really decrease people's margins and it became very challenging to actually make a profit on jewelry. In fact, I probably shipped some orders that I lost money on and I didn't hadn't realized it at the time. So that's one thing to think about. The other thing to think about is what how are you communicating like what you're actually doing and Jason was touching on this earlier with perceived value and I think this is an important thing to think about because if you price your products too low, people won't buy them. And I interviewed a woman named Allison on the show she has a brand called Precious Elements Design. She is a sterling silver designer, she primarily sells at shows and in person and she couldn't figure out why people were walking into her booth saying oh this is beautiful. What's it made out of? And they would make a face when they looked at the price? Because she has been pricing things too low and they would say things to her like silver can't be this cheap. Like why is this so inexpensive? And one day she just had it she'd been sitting there for like two or three days at this like week long event or shower or whatever and she tore all the price tags off her jewelry. I will also link the episode in the show notes so make sure that you check the show notes so you can listen to this full episode. It's been hugely inspiring to a lot of people and in the middle of the show, she repriced all of her pieces and sold out of every single piece of jewelry that she had at that Show, because she elevated the perceived value of a piece with what the customers thought the piece should cost. And the third thing that I want to mention, this is the third takeaway. If you're having price resistance with people who encounter your brand, I want you to reconsider that those probably aren't your dream customers, they're not the people who are supposed to necessarily be buying your jewelry. I saw this reel on Instagram a couple of weeks ago, and it was like a background noise, it's like, don't tell me that my prices are too high. Tell tell me that it's outside of your budget, because that's really what the case is, it's not that you're over...

I mean, there is a threshold where you might be overpricing your jewelry, you can't just like, charge anything, like you can't charge a million dollars for a silver ring. Like no one's gonna buy that unless there's, you know, unless like Picasso made it or something like that, you know, it's like, there's that demand fold that you were talking about earlier, Jason. So if you're like still an emerging designer, and you're trying to get your name out there, there is a limit to what you can charge for pieces of jewelry, but I want you to consider that maybe if you're getting price resistance, those aren't the right people for you. It doesn't mean that you're necessarily overpricing your jewelry, it's about pricing your jewelry the right way and creating that brand messaging and the voice and everything that you're doing. So that you're creat, you're putting stakes in the ground, and you're claiming the pricing for yourself. And so what else you have to add to that Jason feel like that was a lot.

There's a there's another aspect to that, which is, which is more on the kind of energetics side. Yes, so I do a lot of work with our, our momentum students who are it's a program for students wanting to go from six figures and beyond. And a lot of this comes down to, to how you show up in the energy you you show up with. So we all know that confidence is attractive, for example. Insecurity is not as attractive. And one of the challenges when you're raising your prices is and maybe just when you're starting out is, especially for people that are starting out, they tend to they tend to kind of collapse themselves and their jewelry, their designs together, they conflate the two. So they feel like if I offer this and someone rejects it, then they're rejecting me. If I increase the price, and they reject it, they're rejecting me. And I would just invite you to consider that you are the creator, but you are not the creation. So you create different things. And you have to interact with the marketplace and put things out into the marketplace to see how people react to those, those things to know what adjustments you need to make. So maybe platinum is more popular than silver, or maybe silver is more popular than Platinum with the piece you're creating. The only way you'll know that is to put it out there. And to get feedback. We live in this, this super interconnected world where nature seeks balance, and it's looking for harmony. And a lot of people will sit at their bench and they'll try to perfect things and perfect things and perfect things. And what they're really doing is they're avoiding rejection.

And I would invite you to consider that you are not being rejected, someone might object to the price. Right? They may object to the materials. But that's just feedback that you can use to then dial in to find out where that happy medium is between what the market wants, and what you can offer in a way that builds a lot of desire for the market to have it. So that that's a huge part of this. And I would encourage you if you're going to raise your prices, which I would encourage you to do right now. Because there's there's something called used to be called The Wholesale Price Index. Now it's the Producer Price Index. And they have it for the jewelry market, there are about eight to nine different categories. And just from January of 19 to September of 21, that index has gone from about 212 up to 235, which means prices are increasing. That's the price of your goods and your materials and what it takes to produce something. Not only that, you need to remember that you need to pay yourself a salary. You need to compensate yourself and reward yourself for the work and effort that you're putting in and not shortchange yourself. Because if you're if your costs are going up the grocery store the gas station everywhere else, you need to, you need to you need to raise, which means you're probably gonna need to raise your prices. So here's what I'd encourage. If you're thinking about raising your prices, which I would encourage right now and you have a good reason to do it. You can say hey, look, everything's going up.

Blame it on inflation,

Blame it on inflation stand in front of the mirror. And quote, the highest price you can quote without, you know cracking a smile or breaking down or whatever. And just keep doing that until you become confident at that new level to where you can kind of kinesthetically feel that new price in your body and you're comfortable with it. And it may take some work, right? You may need to say, hey, price of milk is going up, price of gas is going up, all these things are going up, my materials are going up, it only makes sense that I increase the price. And consider that a lot of times, you know, people will there's a whole class of people who basically compete on price for what they can pay for something

You mean to pay more not competing on price down.

Yeah, it's a wild...Yeah, it's a wild world that I've gotten a glimpse into. And because there's that association of you know, if it's more expensive, it must be better. Of course, that has a limit. But I really encourage you, though, to make that separation between yourself and your guages.

Yep. I wanted to just mention, too, that in our Laying the Foundation Program, Jason has done a ton of pre recorded trainings about mindset work, and how to overcome these limiting beliefs that you have in our rapid reframe exercises and how how to just think differently about your belief system, because your belief systems sometimes shapes, your external reality, are actually always shaped your external reality. And if your belief system isn't supporting what you desire, are truly want, then you're basically working against yourself to get the outcomes that you desire. So if you want to, let's say you want to grow your sales to six figures this year, or you want to grow your sales to a million dollars this year, if you don't have a belief system that supports supports the fact that you can actually do that. Or if we're talking even about profit margins, or take home pay, like if you want to make $100,000 This year, or $50,000, or, or $500,000, and take that home, like what's happening inside of yourself, that is supporting or preventing that from happening. And so all these things are tied into pricing. I think it's this is a really important conversation. Jason, thank you so much for breaking it down. For us, I don't know if I would have been able to explain it as concisely and clearly as you did.

You're welcome.

Thank you, you have such a good voice anyway, at the end of the day. That's creepy. But funny. At the end of the day, we're going to be diving deeper into these topics in the jewelry RAM makeover boot camp. So here's your official invitation. To join us I'm sure Jason is going to make a cameo when we bring in some of our special guest mentors to talk about mindset and elevating your elevating everything that you're doing so that your vibration is rising up to where you want to be in business and life and all the things. So if you're interested in learning more about that, and you want to expand your audience, grow your sales, really create a brand voice that magnetizes and connects with your dream customers. And get those dream customers buying from you over and over again, this is for you, regardless of the stage of business that you're in. So head on over to flourishthriveacademy.com/makeoverbootcamp, and join us January 24. Through the 27th We are gonna hang out and have a blast. Jason, I'm sure you have some final words,

Of course. So here's the here's the thing with the Jewelry Brand Makeover Boot Camp, and the desire brand effect. And a lot of these amazing programs that flourish, thrive has to offer you everybody, everybody's kind of looking for a magic pill or magic bullet. And there's only one that I've really found. And that is to upgrade your identity. Because we act consistently with our beliefs. And if you surround yourself with people who are operating at the level that you want to operate at, if they're achieving the level of success that you want, you a couple things will happen. One is you'll see that it's possible. And you'll start to feel that it's possible. And those are two of the keys to starting to shift your identity to where you then believe that it can be possible for you. And a lot of our programs, you know, that's what we're doing. Of course, we're giving you strategy, tactics. Examples, what's working now what's not working now, all of that. But the real growth and change comes when you shift your identity to start to become the person that you want to become and to have the level of success that you want to have. And then of course, there's this lag effect, right, the world needs to catch up but it starts to resonate in accordance with how you see yourself And if you're experiencing a lot of challenges or problems right now, one of the things to do is to explore where are those internally? How are they showing up internally for you. So if you want to make a dramatic shift in your business, if you want to start achieving results that you've dreamt, we're possible. And you've kind of had visions of but you don't know how I'd invite you to join us for theBrand Makeover Boot Camp, and start to get a feeling of how it can be possible for you. Because once that starts to happen, you'll start to shift your identity. And once that starts to happen, it becomes easier and easier to get the kind of results that are consistent with that identity.

Awesome. That was a great way to take us out Jason. So once again, if you want to join us for the bootcamp, head on over to flourishthriveacademy.com/makeoverbootcamp. And thanks so much for listening to the show today. Ciao for now.

Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. It's my mission to help 1000s of creative businesses inside and outside the jewelry space. use their creativity to make money. Make sure that you're subscribed to thrive by design on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and wherever podcasts are played. And we'd love to hear what you think. Please rate and review the show and if you're inspired, please share this with your friends. Cheers to seeing you flourish and thrive.