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No Big Deal | Otter.ai

No Big Deal

John Pulleyn51min

Dhara Kowal

00:02

This is day four of this June 2024 seven day sesshin. And over the past few days, I've been reading from a book of Tongan Roshi stage shows, called throw yourself into the house of Buddha. But today, I'm going to change gears and go to another text. Subtle sound, the Zen Teachings of Maureen Stewart it's edited by one of her students Roco Sherry diet, and it was published posthumously in 1996. Several years after marine Roshi had died. She was actually a contemporary of Tongan Roshi. She, she was born in 1922. And he was born in 1924. And really, both were part of the same generation of Zen teachers as our very own PK, Roshi Kapleau. Their lifespans overlapped. And another thing that they had in common was that each had trained with Yasutani Roshi.

Dhara Kowal

02:02

For a little more biography, I'm going to glean from a book by Roshi James Ford titled Zen master who a guide to the people and stories of Zen. And in this book, he provides an overview of the emergence of Zen in the United States through the lives of teachers. And here's what he says about Maureen Roshi. She was one of the first females and teachers in America was also one of the first to give Zen, a Western face. Marine was born in Saskatchewan, Canada, in 1922. And in 1949, she received a music scholarship to study in Paris, with renowned conductor Nadia blue Lunger, who would later become the first woman to conduct a major symphony in America. While in Paris, marine first stumbled across a reference to Zen in a book called An Introduction to oriental thought. Many years later, when she was interviewed for a biographical study, marine recounted how she wrote in the margins of that book that said,

Dhara Kowal

03:49

this is what I've been looking for. And then he says, but it wasn't until 1966, after she had returned to the US, settled in New York, got married and had three children that she began practicing at the Zen study society. And after three weeks, she sat her first session, with Yasutani Roshi in upstate New York. And 1966 That same year is the year that our Center was founded by Kapleau Roshi. The year that three pillars of Zen was published.

Dhara Kowal

04:51

Then, James Ford goes on to describe how in 1977 At which time were being had Been working with Aido Shimano. She was ordained as a priest and became the resident teacher of the Cambridge, the Cambridge Buddhist Association in Massachusetts. However, she cut off her ties with ADA Roshi when his sexual misconduct was brought to the light. Such an abuse of power not to mention the precepts but fortunately, marines faith in the practice was not shattered by her teachers, a gregarious egregious behave behavior

Dhara Kowal

06:05

she also trained with Solon, Naka, Gowa Roshi, as de Roshi Kapleau. And Ford says that it was in 1980 to two years before son's death, that he had authorized marine as a teacher and told her to start using the title Roshi. And then ford says this, this was a controversial event, as he chose not to give her formal Dharma Dharma transmission. Consequently, she she refrained from using traditional Zen phrases such as Dharma Heir, or lineage holder when referring to herself. Although she did as requested, use the title Roshi. She ordained several priests, but did not designate any successors before her own untimely death from cancer in 1990. I

Dhara Kowal

07:19

can't speculate why there wasn't a public ceremony. But despite not having that, and the fact that she had been teaching for fewer than 10 years when she had passed away. Today, she's widely recognized as a prominent Zen teacher along with Charlotte Joko back, who also trained with Solon, Nakagawa, Roshi, and Yasutani Roshi, we can see Maureen Stewart as a real path breaker in the emergence of female teachers in the US, as well as in the growth of lay practice, practice in the midst of family and work life.

Dhara Kowal

08:30

So turning to one of her TV shows, I'm going to start with one that's in the middle of the book with a chapter titled, no big deal. Chapter 16. She begins our Zen life is ordinary life. When we start adding things to it as new organs and Zaki said, it's like painting legs on a snake. Just to be ordinary, is the most difficult thing. To be plain. To be simple. Not to make a fuss about anything. This is our Zen life

Dhara Kowal

09:28

Don't fuss about anything. We've heard this before. When tired sleep, get some rest. When thirsty, drink, have some water. When walking, just walk. Just walk not going anywhere. Just walking. You're not trying to get from A to B there's no special techniques or tricks to this practice. You know, it's it's radically simple. Just continuously bring the mind back to this one moment

Dhara Kowal

10:35

she continues, Joe Chu, one of the greatest teachers always used whatever was at hand, his teachings were along the lines of Have you eaten your porridge? Have you washed your bowls. Of course, when such ordinary acts are done thoroughly, completely, cheerfully, then they become extraordinary. And you know by cheerfully, she's not suggesting that we manufacture a smile in everything that we do. It's just been one with merging with whatever we're doing.

Dhara Kowal

11:34

Whatever it is, are dancing and songs are the voice of the Dharma. And so are our blunders and mistakes and missteps. Just be one with it all.

Dhara Kowal

11:59

She continues, every single bite of porridge is tasted fully. But it is not done with the feeling of doing something special. There is no self congratulatory inner voice saying, Oh, look, I'm such a wonderful Zen student, sitting long hours, doing everything so mindfully. We just do it with no thought about it. Whatever it is. And of course, this doesn't mean that thoughts are not going to pop up. That's because our brain is hardwired to produce them and makes no sense to criticize ourselves for producing thoughts any more than it does for judging ourselves for producing mucus. Sweating. Urinating body does what it does, it's not a problem.

Dhara Kowal

13:36

So not only should we not congratulate or pat ourselves on the back, for doing the practice, but we shouldn't blame ourselves for having a brain that loses thoughts

Dhara Kowal

13:56

let them be

Dhara Kowal

14:06

she says, to draw attention to what we are doing would be sickening and would have nothing to do with Zen. We just wash our bowls, washing away any excessive use of Zen terminology, any illusions of enlightenment. For our practice to become more ordinary, more real. We use words that everybody can understand. We refer to what is right here right now. We sit we walk we cook. We eat. We clean. We have nosebleeds and it's just here. Right in front of us. No big deal.

Dhara Kowal

15:06

practicing together, she says is a wonderful, extraordinary experience. Yet we are so much in it, that we can't even talk about it. There's nothing to say every single act, everything we do is the expression of our true nature. We may not know it, we may not be aware of it. We may not even think we have any insight. But everything we do is an expression of who we are. Standing up, sitting down, eating, drinking, laughing, crying, washing our bowls, especially if we do it unselfconsciously.

Dhara Kowal

16:06

totally natural, selfless, just doing what needs to be done with no trace of self importance, nor self criticism.

Dhara Kowal

16:36

As Boden Roshi often says, We need to practice like a total fool, a simpleton. Meaning we just need to completely lose ourself in it.

Dhara Kowal

17:00

That's why it's so important. Not to look around, not to check out others and see what they're doing. Focus on your own practice.

Dhara Kowal

17:17

Be a fool for Mo. For who? For this. Or whatever your practice is. It's kind of like being a fool in love. Giving yourself to it unconditionally.

Dhara Kowal

17:49

Can't put it down. Not Oh, well focus on it later on when I feel better. When the conditions are right. I'll wait until I have more energy. I'll wait until the Aza then I'll really get into it. None of that. I'm gonna sell unconditional love. Through all the conditions and mind states that we experience just keep giving ourselves and expecting nothing in return.

Dhara Kowal

18:44

And marine Roshi says and we have never done any of it before. This is the first sitting the first keen we have ever experienced. We are fresh, completely fresh, taking nothing for granted. With no ideas about what Zen is. Everything is seen as it is for the very first time. Even though this machine schedule may be very familiar. We are going through it with keen attention really being present with each moment, really eating our porridge. Really washing our bowls. And when it's done, it's done. There's nothing to hold on to nothing. Nor do we hold anything back. We don't think next time, things will be easier. Next time I'll work harder. I'll be able to concentrate better. I'll do better. Right now is all we have that's it. So let's be here. Let's burn up our resources unstintingly.

Dhara Kowal

20:27

This inhalation is the very first the very first and only inhalation

Dhara Kowal

20:43

there's just this one

Dhara Kowal

20:50

we're so conditioned to look at ourselves in the world, with old eyes, rather than new eyes. It's like opening up a door, you you've opened the door hundreds 1000s of times, you do it over and over. You know how to do it. So you turn the doorknob without even paying attention. There's no need to you don't need to look at it. You've got it down. Our habitual way is to only pay attention when something goes wrong

Dhara Kowal

21:55

when we don't get what we want if we get stuck

Dhara Kowal

22:07

in the case of the door if it's unexpectedly locked, or jammed and we look at it but each time you open a door each time you take a seat here in the Zendo or in your home each time you take a step

Dhara Kowal

22:42

it's the first one completely no it's only the way that we're looking. That is old.

Dhara Kowal

22:59

That's that's what it takes to look directly. Really, really look.

Dhara Kowal

23:18

Then she says when we think we have something, we just forget about it. We start all over again. Going deeper and deeper. Never thinking we have completely understood. Sometimes people asked me when did you finish your Zen training? I have never finished there is no end to it. When we think we have attained something, we're in trouble. We need to wash away everything and become a beginner over and over again

Dhara Kowal

24:11

there's no stopping point, no end to practice no point of arrival

Dhara Kowal

24:33

life flows continuously on soulless practice.

Dhara Kowal

24:53

Then Maureen Roshi tells a story about About a conversation she had with a student she says a young woman called me this week from California to tell me she had cancer. Very worried, very upset. She said, I am preparing to die. I said, How about preparing to live? They go together. And then I asked her, do you know any people who need help? And she said, lots. I told her, Well, you'd better get busy. Don't worry about your lump. Find somebody else to help. And later it turned out that what this young woman thought what she thought was cancer was just a benign tumor

Dhara Kowal

26:20

how many of us in this situation would do the same catastrophize assume the worst. get caught up in some imagined predicament get stressed out lose sleep, become consumed by thoughts about what's going to happen next are the what ifs. That's all a strategy of the ego.

Dhara Kowal

27:06

And catastrophizing is something that people can do in sesshin as well. I can't focus. I've lost my practice. That's it, I'm done. I can't do this why bother? And then a little later, maybe the next round maybe after a nap, maybe the next block or whenever suddenly the practices back? Where did it go? It comes back all the sooner when we keep working at it. And we keep working at it through all mine states, all conditions, which all pass sooner or later

Dhara Kowal

28:22

another kind of ego fueled strategy during such sheen, especially during the second half of sesshin is to Coast Coast along you may reach a point where your mind feels pretty settled. You're feeling more relaxed, more energized by all the days of Zen and instead of continuing your effort which may involve charting into unknown waters instead of pressing on you back off you put in just enough effort to cruise along. Been there? Done that? Don't settle for it. Remember why you came here

Dhara Kowal

29:48

marine Roshi then tells another story. And this one is an exchange between Hogan which is The Japanese name for the Chinese master Fiberon and se home and in Chinese His name is Ching Fen. I'll stick with her use of the Japanese names though

Dhara Kowal

30:25

once there was a monk, who spent three years at the famous master Huggins place without going to see him. Finally, Hogan asked him why he never came to him to inquire about Buddhism. The monk said, Before this, I was with Master say, ho. And I heard the doctrine and attained peace and bliss. And Hogan asked him, What words had brought him this peace. And the monk said, he had asked say, Whoa, this question how is it the self of this disciple? And say, oh responded, the lamp boy is looking for the light. The lamp boy is looking for the light. Hogan said to the monk, well, that's a very nice phrase. But you probably have not understood it.

Dhara Kowal

32:03

Perhaps Hogan sensed that he was just imitating or maybe there was some pride he could detect in the monks attitude. In any case, the monk was a little bit angered that his wonderful realization was being questioned. He told Hogan, well, this is how I understand it. The lamp boy is in charge of the lights, taking the light to go look for the light is like myself taking the self to look for the self. Now there are different translations of this exchange. And Andy Ferguson in the book Zinn's Chinese heritage has say his response a little different. He says, the child is of the fire. And still, he seeks fire. It's like the self looking for the self.

Dhara Kowal

33:38

Then Hogan said, I knew it. You have not understood at all. If that were Buddhism, it would have never lasted until now. The monk was very upset. He got up at once and started to leave thinking to himself, What am I doing studying under this fool? He doesn't even see how wonderful My understanding is. So yeah, this monk is caught up in thoughts about what a good Zen student he is congratulating himself for what he thinks is true insight.

Dhara Kowal

34:24

Words in and of themselves, missed the mark. Then the story continues, after going a little way. It occurred to him. It occurred to the monk that this Hogan was supposed to be a man of great spiritual attainment, one of the wisest teachers around so maybe maybe there was something to what he said. So he went back and this time, the monk said Had I may have been wrong. I bow and ask pardon. In reverence and repentance, I ask, How is it the self of this disciple? Hogan replied, The lamp boy is looking for the light. Or it's the boy of fire seeking fire. And with this, suddenly the monk had true enlightenment. And now here's Maureen Roshi is commentary. What happened? The first time the monk was dwelling in the realm of the intellect, of concepts of somebody else's words, some prepared answer, taking the self to look for the self, was his imitative way of saying the self is the Buddha and was no more than painting a picture. And when Hogan rejected his answer, the monks angry reaction was confirmation that he really hadn't understood. Yeah, when would a person of true insight become angry? If they were told, they had further to go, more work to do?

Dhara Kowal

36:53

Would they become angry if they received feedback?

Dhara Kowal

37:03

Would they be full of pride in their practice?

Dhara Kowal

37:14

She says, Yet he went back and he asked, Hogan's pardon. This is the point, the essential matter, that he let go of his egocentric self, to allow himself to become one with his teacher. When he asked, Hogan's, pardon, those words were his own. In other words, amongst response at that point, was authentic. The second time around, that came straight from the Hora

Dhara Kowal

38:00

marine Roshi goes on. So it is with us. Some of you come and give me very fine phrases. But where do they come from? Are they your own? Are they from your own experience? If they are, they come forth in a very different way, from phrases taken from a book, or from someone else's words. What is your living experience of this? How do you express it? Yesterday, I asked somebody to sing me a song. Quick. Right on right on the spot. And the person did. No self-consciousness. No. Oh, I'm nervous. I can't perform. I'm not good enough. I don't know yet. It happened to be a Bach Aria. It was fresh. It was a clear expression of this move, practice. It was spontaneous, and beautiful. Don't worry, I won't ask you to sing a song. But maybe I will. I'm getting some ideas. She says when we let go of all our intellectual stuff, all our indirect and static knowledge. We allow ourselves to get in touch with the dynamic and direct intuitive understanding that we all have. And out of this comes real freedom, freedom to express whatever is in the moment. Like the burglar who locked his Son in a chest as a way of teaching him his trade. A good Zen teacher puts the student in a box from which there seems to be no way out. The student must find the answer in their own way

Dhara Kowal

40:24

we think that there must be a right way that there must be one answer. And that what we're doing must be wrong. Must be the wrong way. It's wrong because I not getting the results I want. Nothing's happening. I'm not feeling it. And we might turn to the teacher for help. Please, what am I what am I doing wrong? What can I do differently? I keep trying and trying. Nothing's happening.

Dhara Kowal

41:15

I'm so grateful that Roshi didn't help me

Dhara Kowal

41:27

even when I was desperately seeking it he insisted on not robbing me of my own experience. He trusted me

Dhara Kowal

42:04

Maureen Roshi continues, the more we practice, the more we come to know our own minds. And we come to realize the absolute hopelessness of the mind restrained by the ego. All our accumulated knowledge is inadequate. Our teacher tells us over and over again, be simple, be plain, be ordinary, be open, have no fixed ideas. And still, we hang on to the idea that we can achieve something

Dhara Kowal

42:57

our habitual results seeking mind tells tells us that I need to make something happen. I don't know what it is. But there's got to be some kind of payoff here ordinary mind has no expectations. It's not interested in self indulgence. It isn't looking to change anything. It's not busy diagnosing and fixing problems. It has no complaints no sense of right or wrong. It just rest relaxes into what is

Dhara Kowal

44:07

just flows along with the current

Dhara Kowal

44:18

not putting up any resistance

Dhara Kowal

44:34

so when you come to Doxon unless you need some guidance on how to deal with an issue, something you're struggling with unless you're needing some help which you should bring up in dog so beyond that you don't need an agenda. You don't need to figure out ahead of time what you're gonna say you don't need to have a question that you need to ask in order to come to Doxon there's nothing you need to prove

Dhara Kowal

45:36

don't waste your attention and energy on trying to make a good impression you don't need to show me that you're a good Zen student everyone here in this machine is a good Zen student

Dhara Kowal

46:09

just like every day is a good day every moment is a good moment

Dhara Kowal

46:27

every breath a good breath

Dhara Kowal

46:37

just come as you are. Just be in your practice.

Dhara Kowal

47:00

Now I'm gonna skip ahead a bit. Maureen Roshi says, the Buddha directed us to look into matters of our own experience, to examine the nature of suffering. Where does our suffering come from? My way, my opinion, this is the way things should be, I have to do it this way. When we let go of this egotistic way of life, we discover what obaku said my mind, universal mind or reality is no other than Buddha. And Buddha is no other than sentient beings. When mind assumes the form of sentient beings, it has suffered no decrease and when it has become Buddha, it has added nothing to itself. So clear away these deep seated notions that are real steps, substantiated abiding ego exists. Thank goodness it does not. It did not. And it will not. What a relief. As we go along in this practice, we begin to see things differently. But don't expect anything. Don't think my life will change dramatically. To say my life is or will be anything is to go back to that egotistic prep process. Just do what needs to be done and let the results take care of themselves. Be patient. Everything will change

Dhara Kowal

49:21

if we're looking to have our expectations met wanting something anything to happen then, really, we're saying no. No to this. We're telling ourselves that this right here right now. Can't be it.

Dhara Kowal

50:04

How can we find a way to say yes yes to this to open up to things as they are unconditionally

Dhara Kowal

50:31

it requires attention to our practice and an open heart

Dhara Kowal

50:49

to allow ourselves to touch and be touched by everything we experience each moment as it is

Dhara Kowal

51:14

without putting a label on it

Dhara Kowal

51:41

will stop here and recite the Four Vows

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