Welcome to when mothers lead a podcast created by mother for soulful grassroots collective of single mothers. I'm Heidi and I'm Lisa and we will discuss how you can be a part of this movement and what the world will look like when mothers lead
feel the mother's grieving?
All right, welcome to our podcast. We are your hosts I'm Heidi house.
I am Lisa Woodward.
And we are the CO directors and co founders of the mother full organization.
Yes, mother full is black. Indigenous mothers of color LED multiracial grassroots collective of single moms in Columbus, Ohio. And our mission is to support empower and nurture single mother families through the community. We are so excited that this is happening. This is our first podcast and we are excited. And we celebrate it. Yes.
Especially because our very very beloved friend is our first guest today and her name is Rhiannon Carnes. Thank you for coming Rhiannon. Yes, so when I give a quick intro to our beautiful friend, Rhiannon Carnes is the executive director and co founder of Ohio Women's Alliance, and Ohio Women's Alliance Action Fund, and Rianne ins drive to make change and create brave spaces to build community runs deep. As the daughter I love that you have your mom and your bio like front and forward. This is beautiful as the daughter of a lifelong artist, writer and advocate for a child's Brandon's mom knew from Rhiannon knew from a young age that if you want to see real change happen, you have to get to work and that philosophy led her mom to eventually become a leader in black publishing, and the founder of Blackboard an organization that uplifted black authors in a publishing landscape characterized by gross underrepresentation of bipoc communities. In 2016, Rihanna became increasingly outraged as the presidential race played out the same racism and sexism she had experienced throughout her life were playing out on the national stage. eventually leading to the election result that meant America could no longer pretend white supremacy was a thing of the past. As a black single mother, survivor of gun violence and a military veteran. She could not be silent as Extremis conservatives tried to chip away at the freedom, dignity and humanity of bipod communities, especially black women ran in terms of her mother. All right, Pete ma mom for guidance and wisdom who encouraged her to get to work. So a few days after the election, ran and found the Women's March via Facebook, the organizers were looking for someone to lead Ohio's march in 2017. With a corporate and health care background, Rihanna did not have experience with community organizing, but she said yes, anyways, of course, there are not too many black women. That's right. There are not too many black women are women of color in this new feminist movement. I knew this was a movement where all women had to come together. I finally I finally felt that women of color could have a voice and be leaders in this movement. So I took it as an opportunity to use my voice. That's from Rhiannon. So she became the founder and leader of Ohio Women's March. And then since then, in 2019, Rhiannon and Aaron Scott began meeting over coffee to share their hopes for an Ohio that prioritizes the wellbeing, prosperity and liberation of bipoc Women and Gender expansive folks, especially black women, they envisioned a year round organizing group that centers grassroots leaders in Ohio. To get started, they set out in a statewide listening tour to identify the issues that impact our constituents the most, the challenges we face and the hopes and priorities we have for the future of our communities. The tour led to Ohio Women's Alliance, pillars of prosperity they're called which is the values platform that laid the foundation for the official launch of Ohio Women's Alliance in late 2019. And the oh who Action Fund and from each morning since then Rihanna is accomplishments have been celebrated across Ohio, in cosmopolitan and most recently by the Tides Foundation who named her one of five national reproductive best with you rose, and one of the 2018 Bagley Lehmann award winners, yes, boom, so well deserved. And we're so excited to have you Rihanna, this is you know, I started realizing we've got like amazing friends who are doing massive work, who are all mothers. And so we are so excited to welcome you on.
Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. As you can see, I have my baby, right. And so obviously, literally by myself. So if you see me like glancing away, it's probably like trying to keep her from eating my plants right now.
Don't eat the plants note, baby notes. Oh my god, we're so excited. And we're so glad you brought her with you. Because we want to remind mothers that our mothering is a part of who we are. It's a part of our work. It's, that's what this podcast was all about. And so thank you for being the being the example really up out the gate. Yeah, so we're gonna start with our main, our main focus today is going to be reproductive justice. And we we just want to ask you Rihanna to share, you know, about maybe start with like your definition of reproductive justice, and inform people who maybe don't know what reproductive justice is, per se, and then just share whatever you'd like to share about. You know, the fight right now in Ohio, specifically, and anything that you want our listeners to know about reproductive justice in general. Yeah.
Reproductive Justice was founded by a group of black women as a matter of a protest than actually a push back against a white feminist movement that basically silence their voices and embrace their humanity and existence and motherhood when it came to the fight for reproductive rights. And so a group of black women came together and define what reproductive justice means to them. And it extends beyond abortion access, I think, when we talk about the reproductive movement, we always just typically associated with reproductive rights, and obviously abortion access, but it's so much more so that actually reproductive choice, when it comes to reproductive justice, it's not just about the choice is about having access to those choices. And so what reproductive justice means it is the ability to decide when you want to have a child or not to have a child because children aren't for everyone. And also to be able to raise your child in a healthy sustainable environment and having the autonomy to make those decisions for yourself, your body, your family, in your community. And so that is how reproductive justice was founded. And Ohio Women's Alliance, we really build all of our view on how we approach the world, our mission and vision, the way we interact with the community. The issues that we addressed and how we serve as people every single day through a reproductive justice lens.
is amazing. I could listen to your talk about that forever.
Because she talked about motherhood, you know, I will say like, just transparently like I am 45 years old. So I feel like I am a generational mother. Like I hold so many roles when it comes to motherhood. Like I have a 26 year old I have a granddaughter, I'm a bonus mom to seven children. I'm also have been an adopted mother as well. Those children are grown now. So I uphold and also have raised like my siblings. So I hold so many roles when it comes to motherhood, you know, over my entire life, that I feel like without mothering like I don't even know like who I am, like without mothering. And so I have a level of I chose again, every day like, what did I get myself? But I mean, yeah, it's just with my 26 year old, being grown and self sufficient. And I'm just so proud as you know, when I birthed him, I was 18 years old, I got pregnant at 17. And I birthed him at 18. And obviously, you know, I didn't know my future. Hold on. I was just told so much daunting stories of what my life would would be. But I mean, my son is incredible. Like he's, he's in graduate school right now, like the most, I would say, the most important moment in my life. on all the things that I've been through, the most important thing in my life was when he graduated from high school, because so many people told me what he was not going to be and what I was not going to be. So I was, you know, I'm just a blessing like that motherhood is expansive. And that, you know, is not just about birthing children. There's so many motherly roles that we hold. And I hope, you know, so many, including the birthing, but so many other roles that I hold and mothering people. Oh, yeah,
that's deep. I totally understand that. I was a mom at 18. And I have a 29 year old. So it was, it's a big, it's a big gap. And I don't know how I would feel without being a mom right? Now, it's hard to imagine that. Can you speak more about how your mother influenced your leadership? Since you have all of these like roles? Inside of mothering? Yeah,
I felt like motherhood is just so complex. And, you know, I was reading something the other day, and why isn't something you sent me? Hi, Nina said that, like, our eggs are produced, like, within our grandmothers, like we are literally born, you know, into motherhood within our grandmother's womb. So I felt like we are literally born into this society World Framework, or whatever you want to call it. With this perception X, firstly, if you're born female, to be a mom, and it's already like within you. So I feel like mothering and the concept of motherhood, honestly started with me at a very, very young age with like, assisting my mom, with my little brothers, I have little brothers that are 10 years younger than me, and I definitely feel like a mother figure to them. And I think that is just so common, especially with women of color, because of like so many different disparities and gaps and oppression that sits on our shoulders. And so we have to fulfill so many roles. And it literally is a communal effort to raise children and starting with helping our mothers support the children that they have. And so like, mothering, you know, started me almost want to say, you know, according to science and consumption. Like yeah, it was crazy to think about. Yeah, and so like, I started out at a very young age, I'm just like, caring for my siblings babysitting them, you know, my mom, like believing in me probably sooner than I probably should have, mentally, as far as like taking care of like little kids. But yeah, that's where I feel like just the just the role. And the societal expectation of what motherhood is, as far as like caring for people started probably when I was like, 10 years old. For them.
Yeah, it's like second nature. Nurture. You don't have to think about. Wow, yeah.
What do you think your mom, for example, because she was such a powerful leader, and just entrepreneur and she was like, I don't I don't want to say ahead of her time. But she was so powerful, you know, if you would say she was head of head over time. What do you think she taught you about the intersection of work and leadership and motherhood, by her example, or by like her words are?
Yeah, also, you know, just like, just to kind of give you a picture of my mother. My mother, you know, she became mom at a very young age, she, she put her first child up for adoption. And then she went on to get married, and divorced. And I will say that, then after, my mom was like, the first queer person of color that I ever seen, and my mom was very unapologetic, as far as like, who she was, and the decisions that she made in her life. And she just showed up like, she just, my mom just did not care about what anyone had to say. Yes. Yeah, and I just feel like that is because of that, like, she literally showed up, like, This is who I am. And it forced people to accept her, you know, as the person she was. And so, you know, as I was younger, like, you know, you're confused, obviously, you know, because society tells you one thing and then family life looks another way but my mom, as I'm like older and reflecting back. I just think about like, how courageous and how powerful she was and how resilient she was to not to conform to society expectations and To be her true self and do what made her happy in her life. But yeah, I mean, my mother was like, She's literally when I say that she's the reason why I'm here today is more than just like, you know, literally, literally, but figuratively, like, I will not be doing movement work, if it was not for my mother, if it wasn't for my upbringing and watching her. Literally, I went to the 50th anniversary of the Million Man March when I was like five years old or something like, and my mom organized like, buses in the black community to Washington, DC. So she was my mom was a community organizer, before I even knew what community organizing was. And the most ironic part about it is that my mom wrote a book. And when I began, like, community organizing myself in 2016, like I didn't even associate, like what I was raised up in viewing all my life on it, because when you're in it, you don't really realize like, what you don't really realize what it is, and you don't really realize history that you're making in those moments, right. And so when I read her book, and like, it was like the, like the prefix. In the beginning of the book, I start reading her journey to organizing the people for the March, and I'm like, it was a march on Washington, I'm sorry, to march on Washington. And I was like, I just organized classes to Washington, DC. March, like, I didn't even put those things together. Like, it was learn like it was, it was in me, it wasn't something that I just did on my own. You know, it was taught, you know, like, people invested in me, people poured into me, and my mother was like, instrumental in that. And she's the main reason why, you know, I do this work today. And she, and even when I decided to, like join the Women's March, she's the one that encouraged me to said, you need to reach out to people, you know, to see how you can get more involved. Like, if this is your passion, this is your heart work, then you need to do it and solve it was not for her, I wouldn't even have the courage if it was not for my mom. So my say about that is that you need like, like leadership is not in a silo, like leadership is with the pouring and investment into you. And it comes from, you know, others labor as well and others belief into you, my leadership role is yet, you know, some folks want to take like all the credit, like I cannot take all the credit for the leadership role that I am in, like, I would not be in this role without the generations of people who've invested in me, and also without the current people on my staff and my team and my community and Mother full of people who continue to uplift the work that I do every single day.
Yes, that's yeah, I love that. I love that because, and I think that's such a powerful shout out, that you just gave and an example of the way that mothers can powerfully lead especially like, there's like yourself.
Yeah, that legacy she left mazing. And that's what was really important. So since you were raised by a queer Mom, did you? At what point? Did you become rattler radicalized? Was it like because of your mom? Or was there like one specific incident? Where it's like, wow, because it sounds like you've been doing this since you were a baby. So I'm thinking that was the way to hear the path to your radicalization.
I mean, I feel like, you know, when I came to the work, I said, I don't even know if I really reflected on the amount of labor into motherhood, because again, it's like so not talked about. It's so so much shame and stigmatized that I didn't even really associate myself in this work as a mom. I think first and foremost, like what gravitated me most of this work, and the identity identity that I hold, was me being a woman and me being black. And so those were the two associations that came to me and like, initially, when the struggles that I've had in my life and in fields that are dominated by white folks, white men, white supremacy, I really associated with that as deficits within myself as the reason why, like, why I can't promote or why I'm not being valued or why I'm not being seen, like, like me, not, you know, being able to speak well enough or me not being meeting the level of what the work expects of me. And it really wasn't until 2016 when I seen more women speaking out about the injustices that they that they faced. And so then I started to really realize, like, it wasn't that it wasn't like a problem was the first time I guess society, society like, makes us believe, like, literally like this culture of oppression runs so deep, that you also start to internalize it for yourself. And you don't even like, associate you don't even you can distinguish the difference between yourself and what society has played you who you are. So, for me, initially it was originally, you know, you start to like, think about all the other identities that you hold, and Mother mothering and motherhood, you know, is obviously one of them. But when it comes to, like, you know, motherhood, I just feel like, it's so difficult to like, show up confident, you know, for yourself, because again, like, there's so much shame and stigma around too mothering like, you know, you can't be too young, but wait a minute, you can't be too old. You know, even like, what, like, now just the age of social media, and, you know, you want to share things of your children and of yourself, but you have to be mindful, I see myself before I post a pic, like, make sure no one's going to come for me, like making sure you know, the car seat is like has the right straps or whatever on it. And if you're using one of those, you know, wraps around your body that instead of right placement, you know, because if not, people are definitely going to, you know, come for you and have their their fields and their say about it. So it's like, you know, you're constantly shamed and stigmatized around motherhood. And so, you know, when it comes to like, being a leader, and being a mom is like, no wonder, it's difficult because people are telling you every single day like, would you should not be as a mom, and how can you show up as a leader until folks like, who you are, who you should be and why they should support you in that role as a leader.
Yeah. And now, now that you have note, I'm just going with this organically, like now that you have note, and you're leading this incredible organization, um, two organizations, really, but these, you know, your, it's growing rapidly, and your influence has just been your impact has been massive, right? On the state on the country, you know, especially, you know, with the when we just had, that y'all were instrumental in, you know, with issue one, right. And we have abortion on the ballot coming up now in Ohio, which is think, Goddess, you know, and you were instrumental in that work? Can you share about that? A little bit about like the fight right now, you know, the struggle right now here in Ohio, and also share about, like, growing, you know, now you have no, and you just stepped into this Ed role, where you were a co director, now you're the sole Ed, as the other founder, Aaron Scott transition now. And wondering, like, be being a mom now, in this position. Now, that's brand new for you, like, how are you this love, rather struggle with issue one, and then also in the ballot? And then also, how are you? Like, seeing how you can shift the culture of your organization? As a mom
and leader, right? Yes, he's kicking me. Yes, um, yeah.
I mean, what do you want to shift? Like, within the org to you know, so that's a lot of question. But, yeah.
I mean, I'll start with, like, you know, just the political climate in Ohio. I think Ohio, people forget that Ohio isn't, isn't a hostile state. You know, for decades, there has been extremist politicians to take away from our voting power. And, you know, when it comes to voting, it is not everything when it comes when we think about our liberation, like there's other things that are involved when it comes to making sure that we have the things that we need, and that we are able to live and to survive and thrive. But policy is one of those things and legislation is one of those things because there are people who are making decisions on our behalf regardless of whether, you know, we know that we are capable of taking care of ourselves, and that we can provide the services you know, that we need in our community, when we have the resources and tools to do so like no one knows better knows what we need than us. But there are people who are going to be actively working against us every single day we have to be aware of the opposition. And so because if not, we're just working hard or Phil's harder and harder for no reason. And so extremists politicians have literally been trying to chip away our rights in Ohio. And I think Ohio is like perceived as this, as this Midwest swing state, you know, purple state, we have becoming increasingly red. And in free Mandarin and cheating, like these extremist politicians cheat, to get what they want. And, and it's taking away from our voting power. And so what issue one was reflective of was the people's voice and the People's Power and a people's vote. And because we put the abortion on the ballot for people to address as an issue, separate from candidate separate from politicians as a straight issue to impact your lives, they seen that as a threat, and rightfully so because the majority of Ohioans support abortion access, the majority of Americans support abortion access, and we get straight to the issues. People know what they want, and what is right for their life. And so with issue one, they tried to undermine the people's vote and people's voice and take that away from them. And they asked to write back and said, No, you won't. And so it was a monumental win for us. And a percentage of people who came out for that win is the same percentage of people who support abortion access. So we know that we will win in November, they know that we will win in November, and they continue to try to do everything that they can to undermine us. But you know, we are stronger than that. We are resilient, we will persevere and we will get our message across. And so when it comes to this, you know, this harder fight in November. We are out here, you know, talking to folks every single day, we're calling people. We're at community engagement events. And we are asking folks to to talk to your family, talk to your friends. And also to remind you that voting is also power. And then voter registration ends on October 10. So please make sure your voter registration is up today. You know, people move, especially my people, like people of color have a higher rate of like moving and changing to different addresses. Make sure your voter registration is up to date, you can look at Ohio, women's alliance.org, our website, we have a whole voting page for you and address all your voting needs, whether you need to register whether you need to update your voter registration, you can do all of those things. And you can find out in the election takes place as well. But when it comes to November 7, that is election day. You need to vote and you need to vote yes. On issue one. I don't care what you do that day. Yes. Are you going to vote by that date? Because yes, this is yes. The only issue
was yes, this time. Last time, you know this time?
Yeah. And you can even vote before then. So find out your polling location. Find out when the early voters find out what early vote is. And you can vote at that time.
Yeah, don't apologize for Yeah, no Santa mom. No, sorry. It's for being a mom, and bringing your your baby with you. So the other question, end of that question, thank you for sharing that powerful piece. The other part of that question was, how is your mothering this time around like with note the birth of your new baby, like impacting your organization and the culture of your organization? I would love to hear about that, because I know you you just invested in wellness for the women of color on your staff in a big way. And and you took note with you on this wellness initiative. And so I'm just curious, I know you're on mute, right, it looks like you're on mute right now.
Where she's like getting into it all the
time, thank you for Thank you. Thank you for you know, uplifting the importance of wellness. And although you know how long was lines is a power building organization where we, you know, dive into like civic engagement, education, you know, as well as the power of voting and policy. We also are really rooted into making sure that we are well healed and restored. And that's so important because like when you are doing the type of work that we're doing, where you're fighting for your humanity and to be visible In a world that basically tells you that you're not important, and your needs are not a priority, that weighs on you, it weighs on you in so many ways. It weighs on you mentally, physically, emotionally and spiritually. And so for us, we have to make sure that first and foremost that we are well and handled enough to be able to even show up in this work. And so, you know, I'm really like, trying to prioritize a culture of care within our organization. And there's so many things that goes into that. One of the things that we most recently did, I took my women of color staff on our wellness retreat to Panama. And so they spent a week surrounded by, you know, just a beautiful scenery. was native to the land. It was a remote island that we were on. And so all they had to do was rest, and eat good and care you for that day.
Next year, I'm setting.
And yeah, so we spent the week but also not like, a week of wellness is not enough. Like, right, you know, a week of attentional wellness is not enough. We need an everyday thing for us as well. And, you know, oh, wha we go on a listening tour by annually. And we talk about, especially women of color, like what it is that they need. And nine times out of 10, it is financial resources. It is money. I mean, we are aware of the gaps when it comes to the economic gaps when it comes to women and women of color. Just the lack of pay equity. And so we really like within our policies and OWI. Like we're an organization that pays 100% of Employee Benefits. We're also an organization that provides a wellness stipend every month. We also, yeah, we do so much when it comes to our staff to make sure that they have all of the things that they need to make sure that the long term wellness is in place. And we're very intentional about that.
Yeah. And their long term, you know, involvement in the org, you know, yeah, at least they'd love to be.
Yeah, that's the other thing, too, we make sure that we have salaries that are competitive with the, like, with national salaries as well, too. And we revisit those every single year. And we have salary increases every year that are competitive with national standards.
And I know you like you have, I mean, currently, I think you are you the only mother on your team right now.
I'm the only mother on my team. And so maybe the only only mom on my team, you know, having these child policies in place, you know, as a reproductive justice organization, and me being the executive director, you would think that will be like, easy, but like, as it isn't, because as the only mother, my team, like I have to make sure that I'm like, making sure I'm thinking about like everyone wants you. But I also feel like it's hard to think about yourself, like, when you're, you know, you're always thinking about everybody else. So because no one else has children. It's hard for me to like go back and prioritize myself and what my needs are. And to not feel like I'm being you know, like selfish or anything like that. I think that's how we feel as moms. So it has been a journey as far as like, defines our child and parental policies are but I am like, revisiting everything day. Yeah, making sure that those are like more equitable every single day. Like I just increased our parental leave policy, like it was at a place that's only equitable, like it was just like a standard policy before and I'm like, you know, what, like, my staff deserve more than when I gave myself so I'm going to change the policy to be better for them.
Yeah, that's a good foundation. They will start having kids. Yeah, yeah, at some point, somebody on your staff so that's awesome. And everything
you know, I should say my mother has been mentored By Rhiannon and by her team, and yes, you know, for years, so we're good friends, we, you know, we're just so inspired and informed. And our work is really, you know, informed by Ohio Women's Alliance and the work that you've done. And we we appreciate you so much. And we love you so much. And we love you to note.
Yes, I think we get oh, go ahead.
I was honestly, I feel like we have really kicked the podcast off and in a powerful way. Because we're saying like, yeah, you can listen to babies on the podcast, you know? Yeah. If they're breastfeeding on the podcast, yes. And maybe there are other podcasts that have that going on. But I don't I mean, stream. So we will be doing that. So if you're listening, please. You know, give us some positive feedback. And make sure you're liking and sharing everywhere we're at. And let us know that mothering, as you know, being a leader as a mother, like, just give us a shout out and let us know that this is this is resonating for
you. Yes, yes, yes. And I also want to share the love right back to Mother for like, all of the ways in which you have like, supported me and helped me to like, I had to be reminded of myself, like, one of the other roles that I hold in my life is being a mother and being able to embrace that bowl and out loud. And you know, with me birthing No, like, honestly gave me kind of like no choice. But I did. I did have to make decisions that work for myself, you know, and for and for my daughter. And so like every single day, like, you know, I just said no to someone today, like I had an interview. Last minute today, they asked me and I said no. I said no, because I don't have childcare. So sorry. Like, if you want me to show up to things like I need a more advanced notice. And that's the way it is, you know, folks, like I used to like just jump at every single thing, like someone wanted me to be there, I was there like I would travel, I don't care how far it was, you needed me that was there. And now like, I acknowledged like them, mothering is important to me, and being there for my children is just as important as this work. And so sorry, and so there, there is a balance. And I'm going to prioritize what my capacity is that makes me stronger. Mentally, you know, and spiritually, and physically, like, I'm taking care of myself and my body. First and foremost, because if I'm not here, then you know, my children are good, my family is good. And even my organization is a bit. So you know, that mothering role has definitely been a friendly, and constant reminder from you all and especially thank you, Heidi, for all the ways that you empower me and strengthen me and make me stand up for myself because I'm like, I don't know, I don't know if I should do it. I don't know if I should say you're like, No, you deserve it as a mom, you deserve it. And so it helps me and encourages me and it also is not just helpful for me it's helpful for my team, my staff and also as an example as a leader in this reproductive justice space for other people to follow.
Yes, yes. And thank you, we love you. We love you
so much. When a mother's lead
Yeah, so we have our signature like outro a question that we're working up and so as you know, I wrote a song called when the mother's lead and the song is kind of actually my vision for the song is that we're going to have a mother's march on Washington, and there'll be hundreds of 1000s of mothers marching on Washington singing this song so when the mother's lead some of the some of the verses are that I created are like the earth will be healed when the mother's lead you know will melt all the guns and some people don't agree with that but when the mothers lead the children will be safe. So when the mothers lead Rhiannon, what do you think the world
will will be like wow, that is a that is a big question because to your point like there's so many things where mothers lead but I think for me when mother's lead more prepared.
Prepared Virgo, it's a Virgo.
I mean, I feel like when not when mothers lead our children really that's how I feel my mother's lead our children only because my children for me like the things that might that comes out of my children's mouth. I'm just like, I can't even believe it. But with They always say like, Well, Mom, you taught me, you know I've got from you. And I'm just so proud of them and the way that they show up for themselves and even their friends. And I just feel like when mothers see our children will be better leaders. Yes,
yes. Ah,
you didn't prepare. That was perfect. Yeah, love it. Well, thank you Rihanna in so much. Let us know. Yeah. Thank you. How can our listeners support? Oh, how women's lions and Ohio women's lions Action Fund.
For Ohio Women's Alliance, they can go to Ohio women's alliance.org. To know, there also is a section for you to link to our action. Oh wha action find out or you can follow us on Instagram. We're on Facebook. We are on Twitter. And if you need to reach out to me directly. I am here for you. My email is Brianna ran and at Ohio Women's Alliance.
That's right. That's right. And we'll put it all in the show notes too. So that'll be available for everybody. So how women's alliance.org is the website and you can link to the Action Fund through that website. And it's Rhiannon RHA N N O N at Ohio women's alliance.org And you said she she'll take your emails y'all so yeah, Lisa, is there anything you want to outro
I'm just like this perfect. It's just luck. Luck to us. And yes, we've enjoyed working with you. We love you thank y'all for
welcoming me into this space especially with loud heard right now.
It's perfect. It's literally the most perfect thing Yeah, literally the most perfect first guest this whole experience so thank you so much. Yeah, okay, go out there and lead mama. Yeah,
