You're listening to cubicle to CEO episode 211. This is our final week of featuring gems from past guests before we resume our regular Monday case study interviews, we've compiled the best of pitching lead generation conversions and customer feedback advice into four themed roundups. This fourth and final roundup in the series features seven must try customer feedback tips all introduce each sound bite with the name of the guest and the original episode number and title it was pulled from in case you want to go back and listen to the full conversation. The clickable links to all referenced episodes will also be listed in the show notes below for your convenience.
Welcome to cubicle to CEO the podcast. I'm your host Ellen Yin. I quit my job without a backup plan and bootstrapped my first $300 freelance project into $2 million in revenue by age 28. On the show, you'll hear weekly case study interviews with leading entrepreneurs and CEOs who share one specific strategy that successfully grew their business revenue. Skip the expensive and time consuming learning curve of testing everything yourself by borrowing what actually works from the best and brightest mentors. You'll also get a front row seat to my founders journey through transparent income reports and behind the business solo episodes, subscribe now so we can grow together every Monday.
Tip number one is from Amanda Walker episode 196. Repurposing Client Results: Building A Million Dollar Business From This Three Step Testimonial Strategy.
Step two is all about creating and curating client testimonials. I'm gonna quote you again, because you shared some great insights even ahead of this interview that really got me thinking, you said "create opportunities to identify benchmarks and milestones, and collect those results." And what I love about what you shared here, it wasn't even like notice, or start collecting results and testimonials, it was create opportunities to identify benchmarks milestones, that was just such a, a micro shift. But it really is different than just I guess, passively waiting for someone to tell you, Hey, you really helped me out. So talk to us about that process? What does it look like to actually create those opportunities to measure benchmarks or milestones?
I think it comes from day one, when you begin to work with someone in some capacity. And obviously, coaching is what I'm most familiar with. But I think this goes to any industry in some sort of measurable way, even if you're a product based or a brick and mortar. But from day one, there has to be a discussion in some capacity that clearly identifies the outcomes that are desired through that coaching experience. And I think this is one of the biggest mistakes I see coaches make is they have a client, and they have an agenda. Not intentionally, but unconsciously, because they're like I have this framework. And I walk through clients from point one to two to three to four. And unfortunately, that doesn't always work. In the perfect world, the majority of times our clients don't move at the cadence for which we believe and so when we have that what we do is we we miss out on opportunities to meet the client truly where they're at. And that's where like masterful coaching really happens.
And so, from day one, we want to set clear boundaries. And I like to say like use the analogy of if you and I were playing darts, what some coaches do or some service providers do is they create a blank dartboard has no circles and no bullseye. And so we're taking action, and we're throwing darts, but there's no like, check in like, are we getting closer or not? So from day one, what we want to do is clearly identify at the end of this coaching journey, what would you say would be like wild success? And we want to clearly state that and know that because I can't read your mind and know exactly, and we have to have language shared between the two of us. And then from there is we also need to make sure that there is some sort of measurable way.
For instance, I want to feel more confident. Okay, well tell me then, like what does more confident actually look and feel like, we want to make sure that there is a bullseye. So it's like first is getting clarity as the rings and then we want the bullseye so we know exactly how to measure and this is true of anything, right? What we measure can grow. And from there, we can create the touch points to check in on that which could look like a variety of options.
Your speaking my love language, Amanda. Okay, I want to pull out the example that you just shared because this is like something that I feel like if everybody who's listening to this show today could grasp it will radically change the success of your marketing and your ability to communicate how you actually create results for people. So let's take the example that you share you said Someone might tell you, Oh, my idea of success is that I am more confident. And like you mentioned, Amanda, most people would take that very surface level answer and go, Okay, great. But like you also pointed out, there is no actual way to measure whether someone is more or less confident necessarily, without providing parameters around what competence implemented, actually looks like.
And so I think, where most people get held up, and I'm speaking more, not even so much from the side of coaching, but more from like, my world of, you know, course creation and creating a program that results in a tangible outcome. A lot of people say, Well, you know, I don't work in finances, or I don't coach you in business. So it's like, I can't like tie my clients results to a number, like, X amount of money earned, right? So they think, therefore, it can't be tangible. But I always tell people, like you said, Amanda, if someone wants to be more confident, and you ask them, if you warm her confidence, what would that actually look like in your life in terms of the behaviors and actions you're taking, that you're not taking today? And if they said something like, oh, well, if I was more confident, when I make a decision, I wouldn't second guess myself and text like five different people asking essentially, for approval on the decision I made. If I stopped that behavior, that to me means more confidence. And that is something that is measurable, even though it's not tied to a number, right?
100%. And then the extension of that is, then as the coach, we have to check in on that along the way. And the ways we can check in on that. And so this is all included in the client notes, right. And it's our responsibility as the practitioner to monitor that. And so that could be just a verbal discussion, like, every time we're together, or once a month, we're like, Hey, how's that decision making? And then if they tell me, Well, I only text my best friend, we're like, progress, right? We went from five people to one people, right? So then I might say, well, what would have to happen for you to not text your bestie, right, and so then we will be able to, like continue to grow from that element. And so those check ins and milestones can be as simple as informal discussions like that.
But that could also come from a form that we curate, and we send to the client weekly, or, you know, twice a month, or monthly or whatever the case is, or a scale, right, a rating scale of one to 10, or one to five, or it could be through a boxer check in right, which is how I support some of my one to one clients. So there's such a variety of ways. And what I find is, practitioners are doing some of these things already. And if you're listening, and you're like, well, I already do that. But my question is like, are you hitting the bull's eye? Is there opportunity to get a little bit more granular? And then most importantly, are you creating the platform for them to be able to share these wins back to you. And that's where I see most people missing, because they're so inundated with running a business. And they have like this magic happening, and they're not collecting it at in any way.
And that's important, because we want to show tangibly like this is what's happening, because there's times in the coaching relationship where people will say, it's not working, I have not made progress, right. And this is where this becomes so important. We can say, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's look like let's go back and backtrack a little bit and see just like actually how much progress you've made.
I often hear that when we ask something like, Hey, what's a win you've had? Or hey, would you be willing to share a testimonial about your experience working with me that it can feel so broad that we either get really general responses that are not actually very specific or measurable, or people don't respond at all? Because it just feels like, Oh, this is a lot to ask. And I have to sit down and think of a whole like testimonial and whatnot. So are there any specific questions that you've used that have been powerful in your business for generating the most impactful client results?
Yeah, I would love to just like also point one thing out that I have discernment around. And that is the difference between formal and informal testimonials. And so I will say that Typeform tends to be the more formal component, right? And we collect these and there are questions that we ask and then formal for me means this is what we're maybe putting the cute little quote boxes around and splashing on our website or using in carousels on, you know, Instagram or something like that. And I don't think those are out of date by any means. I think they're fantastic. And this is kind of leading us I guess, in my step three, which is repurposing, but I do believe that more effective than that are these informal splashes of feedback because they're unsolicited, I did not go to the person and say, can you tell me about that?
They were just so excited about working with me or the method that I taught them, or some sort of action they've taken that they shared that back. And why I'm sharing that is, I want to encourage people to take advantage of utilizing more of those and to understand and create places for that to happen. When we're on the other side. The more formal questions. The thing I would encourage is to not necessarily just say, Can you leave me a testimonial? The reason being is we have to educate to our audience about testimonials, they actually don't know often what a testimonial is, and what should be included.
And so if we get more granular with things, maybe this is at the end of the coaching relationship, be specific. And so things I like to ask are, you know, if you think back to before working with me, can you describe specifically where you were at? Right? What were your greatest struggles? And I like to paint it really just like you do is in the form of a case study, like, tell me about the beginning, because that really reflects the journey overall.
And so we're looking at more of a longer term. So I've got the beginning. And then often a question I might ask is, what from your perspective has been the greatest struggle you've overcome? And how did you overcome it? And so that gives them the opportunity say, this was the pain point. And here's what we did together. And that's why it was extremely successful. And then we take them to the end. And often a question is, if you were to guide another human being to work with me, what do you think like, what's the greatest value of working with me? So we take them through that, you know, whole thing, and I've got this past present future kind of experience. And so that would be more, I guess, at the end of a coaching relationship.
But I also think these milestones could look more like, if you think about your primary goal right now, you know, where do you feel like you are in accomplishing it, you could even give them a scale like scale of one to five, five being like, I've nailed it, I'm ready to move on to the next thing, one being like, I'm not even close, because that gives their perspective too. So I think those are just maybe some samples of depending upon where you're at, or what you're looking for, that might be really valuable.
Super, super helpful and valuable. Thank you, Amanda. And I love also that you brought in this into the equation, the distinction between informal and formal testimonials and, and how you believe that informal can sometimes be even more effective. You mentioned that the way you primarily characterize an informal testimonial or a result is that it's unsolicited. You're not necessarily asking for them to answer a specific question. They're just you know, sharing their excitement or their win with you. So I'm curious, because this is just the way my brain works. And I'm sure there are other listeners who feel the same way.
Can you share an example of how you are able to create or foster an environment that allows for unsolicited client results, like maybe even point to a specific example, recently in your business where you got one of those and how that came to be?
I think it's begins at the beginning of a coaching relationship. I think this is where the mastery of coaching comes in, as well as understanding the physiology and creating a building rapport with your client, and creating a space and fostering celebration as a regular part of the process. So if we do it together, right, every time we're on a session together, or every time I'm in a group coaching session, then we feel confident and comfortable in shining our light, which I think especially as women, right, this is something that many of us are struggling with, in general is to show up and authentically have spaces where we can say like I did that thing. And so that's where I think it's really built in the beginning and creating that environment.
But recently, literally, yesterday, inside the BDC, we were talking about belief, we're in a belief and sales kind of curriculum month. And one of the things that a client was sharing was she's very quietly was like, Well, I got a new client. And we're all like, wow, like, this is a big deal. And so she was wanting to downplay it. And we were talking about evidence collection. And so I simply said, Hey, would it be okay with you, if we just or rewind? Would you mind saying that again? And would it be okay, if we all collectively, like cheered for you out loud? And she's, of course, and so we did that with her permission. And I was like, how's that feel? She's like, honestly, I felt really freaking good.
And so I think it's pausing and creating spaces where we don't just overlook and quickly move to the next thing, because I'm a massive overachiever. And so like, part of why I'm sharing this is because I need this to, I want to move to the next thing. And I have to be intentional about stopping and going, Yeah, but like, I was a teacher, I never thought I'd make a million dollars in my life. Right? And here I am. And so we have to just really, you know, sit for a moment and see the value of what this holds and just our everyday life to not just business.
That's incredible. What I took away from what you shared, is that celebration is a habit that needs to be practiced in order for it to be natural. And I guess, I mean, that makes complete sense logically, but like, I guess I never just really thought about it that way like you. You have to almost instill this habit in people and allow them to practice over and over and over again in big ways and small how to Celebrate. And it's kind of funny because you would think it's just like a natural human reaction to celebrate when joyful things happen, or good things happen to us. But you're right, depending on how we grew up, or the norms in our society or just your personality type, it could be very easy to just move through it without giving it even a second thought. And I love that you are guiding people to do that practice so that when the time comes, when they have a really big one that they want to share with you, it's just so second nature, because they've done it 100 times before.
Tip number two is from Sarah McCabe, Episode 197. She Walked Away From 17k Followers and Made 40% More Revenue with This Referral Strategy.
When you receive, let's say, a glowing response to the the latter question, the one about you know, how would you describe me to your friend or whoever? Do you repurpose those in any way? Are you using them as like screenshot testimonials? Or are those more for your private feedback?
Oh, no, that's getting shared absolutely everywhere that I can share it. I think that that's also just, it's farmore impactful for other people to see how other people describe working with you, right? I sit here and say that I do X, Y, and Z very well. But if you know, my testimonials aren't backing that up, then it doesn't really hold weight. And so I'm a huge advocate for absolutely sharing that feedback, those testimonials everywhere.
If I get a particularly glowing review, and it's a project that I felt like highlights, the work that I'm doing, I will go ahead and make a case study out of it. So you know, something that's far more in depth so people can get an even clearer look at what does it look like to work with Sarah? You know, more specifically, what do these people say about all aspects of the project. So if it's a really great review, I will turn that into a case study, which is just even more feedback from the client, and even more testimonials from them. So I am the first person to say, share that everywhere that you absolutely can, it's going up on my website, it's going on Instagram, it's going on the stories, and it's being turned into a case study if I can.
So for our listeners who maybe have never created a case study out of a client result before him, and maybe they've relied up to this point solely on, you know, screenshots or these quick little snippets. Can you maybe walk us through how you structure your case studies? Like if someone writes this glowing review? How are you that what kinds of other follow up questions? Are you asking your client to pull the information you need for your case study? And how do you organize the flow of the case study? Like if I were to, if you were to visually describe me reading your case study? What would that look like?
Yeah, absolutely. So I think first and foremost, I really want to paint a picture. Because I also think this helps us attract more ideal clients. And it also helps people understand what it looks like to work with you what they can anticipate, which again, just all contributes to conversion. And it also contributes to a really enjoyable experience, I am meeting their expectations, because they had a very clear idea of what to expect right from the start. So in terms of structure, I always start off with sort of a snippet of where were they at?
What was happening in the business in terms of, you know, pain points that they were experiencing? What was their business at in terms of its growth, or its journey? And where do they want to go? So it's a really quick snapshot of where are they at? Where do they want to go. And from there, I break it down into each phase of the project. So people can see, these were the pain points that I was, you know, shared. And then this is exactly what we did together over the five months, step by step, you can see absolutely everything. And then what I do in terms of gathering more insight from the client, I'm really asking them pointed questions about each one of the deliverables from that specific project.
So for example, you know, it's how does it feel now to have the onboarding program that you have? Or how does it feel to have the workflow that you have with your entire team? What's that done for the business? So I'm really trying to get a deeper insight into how it's impacted their business, how it felt for them to build that with me. And then we always wrapped with just that big picture. Can you tell us a little bit more about what it was like to work with Sara, her process, the way that she engaged with you? So again, people have a deeper understanding of what it's like to work with me.
Tip number three is from Anita Seik episode 202. Save A Launch That's Flopping In The Final 48 Hours.
I just realized there was a third one which was literally listening to what people were saying in that current moment. And that included, what people were saying if they were thinking of joining what people were saying just in general about the course. So there was essentially three things that I really focused on that I believe really shifted this launch. Number one was the data and analytics, number two was the messaging. And number three was really listening in on the conversation that was already happening from prospective buyers. But that also, as you mentioned, is also why people didn't buy last round. And also why people ended up joining this time around and getting that live, understanding as to what made that person say, heck yes to joining this round.
I want to circle back to messaging in a bit. So we'll get there. But I want you to expand on what you mean, in that last piece of the difference between people who didn't buy last time who actually chose to by this time, what exactly did you hear from them in terms of why they decided to join? And how did you let that impact the approach that you took for the remaining 48 hours.
So there were essentially three things when I said the third element was really listening to what people are saying there was essentially three things I looked at. So every single launch that we run, we always do a non buying survey. It's so good, so juicy, it takes 60 seconds for someone to fill that questionnaire out. And it's just everyone who technically might have joined the webinar or the challenge that we might have been running, but didn't end up buying for whatever reason.
And we also usually incentivize from a space of if you, you know, take 60 seconds to answer this, we'll donate two extra 40 for each response. And we would get like a pool of responses, which, you know, for example, one of the questions would be aside from cost. Why did you decide not to join? And we were very intentional with how we framed the questions like that. Because by asking your audience, aside from cost, because cost is so subjective, and I firmly believe in the value that it delivers, based on the price that we priced it out. So I really wanted to know why people didn't join aside from the cost. And this is where we got the gold, it's usually I didn't have the time. Maybe I'll join next round, or maybe in another course. And maybe they might share a few other things. So they'll give us a list of reasons as to why it wasn't a heck yes, for them, which for us is intel for us to then know for the next launch, how we can better our content and pre launch content.
So I am a big believer that when someone doesn't buy, it's likely because you haven't communicated the trifecta, which is why this, why now? And why you. And a lot of the time when it comes to a live launch, the why now is what changes, right? I think for me, the mistake in a way that I made on hindsight for that particular launch was we use the same messaging as what we had for the launch around April of that year. And for 2022, a lot changed in April 2022 to around September, October. And you know, the why now change, like originally, our messaging was very much like, you know, learn how to think, right and convert like a copywriter, which you know, works for that launch. However, for this particular launch was so close to Christmas as well, like I mentioned, we needed to really connect the dots between how writing words right now in October, and learning how to write in October was going to really help you during this period where you want to switch off during this period where it's Christmas. So a lot of our messaging. And this is where it gets to the messaging part was then shifted, and I can talk about that in a moment was shifted to speak to that. So that was one thing we looked at why people didn't buy.
Number two was obviously why people did buy and this was purely manual, like I'm talking about like DMS, like notice someone joined and I might voice note them where I'm literally like, Hey, I'm so excited to have you in word video words, tell me call me curious, like what was the reason that made it a heck yes for you? Or why did you join? What are you looking to create or achieve? So that was the second thing I was collating because then I got the Intel in live time. What made people say heck yes, for this particular launch.
And the third and final thing that I looked at when it came to listening to the audience and what they were saying were actually their objections. So again, this is in lifetime we, along with my team would get a lot of emails being like, well, I'm thinking of this, but I don't know if I should join this round. So they would start giving us almost a list of reasons why they're thinking of not joining, or a lot of the time through these objections. You can really start to identify what they're all similarly, driven by and what I mean by that is the consumer, are they driven by ROI? Are they driven by the fact that they joined other courses, but they felt like another number. And you can tell a lot by the language and the words they use to ask you the questions. So if someone who's just like, I've done a lot of courses before, I'm just wondering whether or not this is for me, that already says to me that they are making this decision based on the previous courses that they've invested in, and it may not have yielded the result that they wanted. Right? So then you can create content from that. So those were the top three things that I was listening for, to use to then switch the messaging.
As entrepreneurs were idea machines, but that doesn't mean the rest of operating a business comes so easily. Thank goodness for Shopify, you're no excuses business partner that allows you to sell without needing code or design. Just bring your best ideas, and Shopify will help you open up shop and turn casual browsers into instant buyers with the internet's best converting checkout. What I love about Shopify is they grow with your business. Thanks to an endless list of integrations and third party apps. Anything you can think of from On Demand Printing to accounting to chat bots, Shopify offers everything you need to revolutionize your business. In fact, Shopify has been a part of my entrepreneurship journey since the very beginning. I'm talking since 2015, when I was on the marketing team at for a fitness apparel startup. I've used Shopify as a platform for all the ins and outs of E commerce sales, as well as in person transactions. So whether you're selling a tangible product or marketing, an online service, I know from personal experience that Shopify has features for truly every sales channels in your business. And the best part is, you're never left on your own to figure things out, they have an award winning support team that is there to help you every step of the way. There's a reason Shopify powers 10% of all e commerce in the US sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com/ellen. That's spelled ELLEN, all lowercase, go to shopify.com/ellen to take your business to the next level today. Again, that's shopify.com/ellen will also drop a clickable link in the show notes.
Tip number four is from Linda Yi episode 140. How This Neurodivergent Artist Increased Her Income From $250 to $10,000 a Month with An Online Course About Cooking Chinese food.
I'm sure there's people listening into this podcast, who are also fellow course creators, fellow educators, I would love to know like what what is the key question or maybe a couple key questions that you actually asked your students like, specifically, what were those questions that you asked? That allowed you to receive the helpful feedback that you needed to implement those changes?
I think the first thing I would say is I actually got on calls with people like I didn't send a general survey, which I like I think I also asked questions through this chat group that we had. So my beta students and I were all in an Instagram like DM group. So that was for some immediate feedback. But I mostly asked people who didn't go through the entire program, like if I could buy them a Starbucks coffee, and just like hop on a call for 30 minutes to talk about their experience.
And I think like one of the most helpful questions, and not specifically related to cooking is like, what are some of the things that get in the way of getting started? Right? So not even like, why didn't you complete the program? I used to also be like a researcher in grad school, and I did a lot of qualitative interviews. And so like, one of the things is, you almost never start a question with why because like, it comes off as kind of aggressive, even if you don't mean to be aggressive. But like, I think instead asking them, you know, what are some of the things that get in the way? What are some of the hurdles that kept you from starting? And then also kind of asking, you know, like, what were the reasons that you signed up for the program? Like, what are the things that you really wanted to get out of it? And then how do you think we could get you there? Or like, what other support could I offer to help you get there with that would have been more helpful?
So I think like, those were the questions that really got me actionable steps because like, you know, both like answers to what I can create the what, right, like answers to how I can create processes to support people to, you know, like, complete the hell, or as, you know, if people were just like, you know, I didn't have time or like, I feel like why questions usually give you sort of more ambiguous answers or, you know, they'll say, like, I don't know, or maybe they'll go down to like, Oh, it's my fault. Like, you know, I was like disciplined enough and like, that's not where you want to end like conversation ever as an educator, like if I was teaching preschool like I would never be like, oh, yeah, that it's your fault, Tommy. We're not like trying hard enough like that, you know, that's the surface level answer that you need to dig a little bit deeper into.
Tip number five is from Benton Crane episode 112. The Exact Video Ad Strategies Harmon Brothers Used To Grow Lume's Sales From 1.5 Million to $23 Million In One Year.
What are the top two or three takeaways from the success that Lume has had? That someone at home could apply to their own, you know, DIY video marketing or DIY ads?
Yeah. So I like to say that as entrepreneurs were all on our own poop to gold journey. And when I say poop, I'm referring to kind of the obscurity that we all start in. But we all have these hopes and desires of one day, you know, reaching what I call the gold of becoming a household name that people know and love and recognize and trust. And like you mentioned, Lume is on their own journey. You know, Lume is not yet a household name, like a Nike or an apple or something like that. But I would still argue that they're, they're well on their way, you know, they're doing the right things in terms of, you know, world class, product, world class, customer service, world class, marketing, etc, etc, storytelling, character building all of those things, they're on their way. But they also started in obscurity, just like you and me and all the other entrepreneurs.
And I think it's really important to acknowledge that when we're starting out, we don't need to act like Nike or Apple who are clear over on the other side of the spectrum, nor do we need to act like Lume, or Purple who are somewhere in between, we need to act like a startup. And that can mean that, hey, we can have ads that are really low budget, we can have ads that are scrappy, we can focus on just getting those initial sales to come in the door. And we don't need to worry about all the brand building and all those things.
You know, when we watch YouTube videos of Gary Vee talking about oh, it's all about the brand. And oh, you need to be on all these different platforms and everything. Sometimes that can be overwhelming to be like, Oh, how do I create content for every different platform? And how do I do all of this stuff. And we have to stop and remind ourselves that, guess what Gary Vee has taken years to build up this social media team. I don't know how many people are on it. But he's probably got seven or eight full time people who are capturing content and editing and posting and, and all this different stuff. Whereas in the reality for him, it just started out on Twitter, like all he was doing was was it was just a Twitter strategy, and it grew from there. And it's totally appropriate for us young, new entrepreneurs who are still living in that obscurity, trying to find our way through it. You don't need to do everything. You don't need to go big budget, you just need to focus on the things that matter. And usually that's, you know, sales, and where it does matter in terms of branding, like, just focus on, you know, the first platform that really matters to you go try to dominate on one platform before you try to, you know, dominate on five platforms or whatever. That's what I would say.
If you're looking for specifics, I would say a great place to start if you're saying okay, I need to drive those sales. We teach this course at Harmon Brothers University that we call easy ads that sell. And in it, we teach how many like 14 or 15 different ad formats that are all like super low budget, easy to produce ad formats that actually drive sales. So one of them for example, we call an explainer testimonial ad. And that this is like crazy simple, but crazy effective.
All it is, is you start a video with a one to two sentence statement about why your product is different. Or it's basically like your super quick elevator pitch to get people to pay attention. And then all you do is follow it up with testimonials that your customers have already written for you. You don't even have to write any ad copy your customers have already written it, you just need to go through and find the ones and then you present call it three to five, you know, really compelling testimonials. And it's like the simplest ad you could ever produce.
You can probably sit down on your couch, you know, you could work with a junior high level, you know, video editor, and you can have an ad ready in two hours and they're amazingly effective. So that's just one example and we teach. I want to say it's like 14 different ad formats like that. So it's like a super low budget way to get started in driving those sales, and then through driving those sales, you start to work through that poop to gold journey to eventually you get to a point like Lume, where you're ready to really invest into the long term branding and make yourself memorable and, and shareable and all those things.
Tip number six is from Dr. Tarika Barrett, Episode 143. Increasing Program Enrollment By Over 200%: What Educators and Course Creators Can Learn From the CEO of Girls Who Code
You've brought up this this concept of surveying and market research, listening, right? Getting community feedback, I think that that piece cannot be overlooked, because it seems like a core piece of really your approach to all the work that you guys do about Girls Who Code is listening to the people who are actually going to be benefiting from your programs, right?
So I would love to know, in the beginning, when you were sending out these surveys to your alumni and to your current, you know, younger students, how are you reaching them? Were you sending them email surveys? Can you give us any glimpse into?
Like, I guess what I'm trying to ask is, I think, there, there may be listeners who think Oh, like this is this is a missing piece for me and my business, I'm not reaching out and really serving people and understanding what their needs are. But then they may feel overwhelmed by the prospect of you know, what is the best way to survey people such that I will actually receive, you know, a lot of exactly what actus is in terms of like, the the channels through which you reach them? How did you structure you know, either the length or the content of the forms? Did you follow up with anyone one to one over calls, anything you can share? That would be great.
Yeah, I mean, it's a great question. I think one of the things we've been deeply blessed by a community that we have a strong connection to, that have a strong sense of affinity, you know, with Girls Who Code the sisterhood has been so good to us. And when we tend to put our feelers out and ask, we do have responses. But the thing I would say to your listeners is also, who are the stakeholders you're trying to get for us, because of the nature of our programming, we do have multiple stakeholders.
In some cases, it could be the facilitators, running clubs, who we might reach out to and ask very pointed questions about what are your needs? What do you need to be successful? What does enrollment look like? Right now? Are you even able to host your club. So there was a wealth of information that we could get from the frontlines folks who were actually running clubs. But then when it came to the alumni data that I shared with you that absolutely required outreach to alums, and historically, we tend to use two modalities depending. But we sometimes serve send surveys via email very often.
But we also have found, believe it or not, depending on your audience, text messaging is super useful as a way to get people to respond really quickly to something that you want. And I think less is always more in the way of surveys because we had hunches, and we use the surveys as a way to refine those, of course, you're always hoping to gain new information or a new perspective that you weren't contemplating.
But a lot of it was already suspecting the ways in which our community would have needs around Wi Fi, computers access quiet place to work, where the survey became deeply critical from a programmatic perspective, was figuring out for example, when we wanted to launch our work prep program, it became really hard to figure out, this was something that we were going to partner with a company that would host these young women in a virtual way, and figuring out what time of like, When could you do this program? Are you on spring break? Are you not? Do you have the time are you working? So that became really critical to land on something that was going to be really effective? And I think be iterative, don't be afraid to send it again.
And the other thing that's really critical that we sometimes leverage would be incentives, right? We might say, We want to hear from you. And we have a gift card or we want to do some other way to celebrate you as you give us critical information to allow our program to be successful.
That's really interesting. And I just want to echo what you said about SMS messaging, text marketing, right? It is such an underutilized, but such a powerful channel. I mean, if you think about it, just even in your anecdotal day to day life, you're much more likely to open a text than probably an email because email, you get a mix of personal communication, business communication and a lot of spam. So it's easy to overlook the pile in your inbox, but it's much less likely that you are going to overlook the texts that come into you know, to your phone, because it's traditionally a channel that you kind of reserved for people you actually know right who are actually texting you with their numbers. So exactly. I think that's really brilliant with texts.
I just just one follow up question on the text messaging, when you would send out like you said a simple short and sweet text. Would you just ask like one specific question and then if they answered follow up with the next one, or was it like a series of questions like What are the greatest barriers for you to you know, participate in the program, etc, etc? And all at once?
Yeah, I mean, we use different we've used a platform that allowed us to, I think, ask a bunch at once. But I would have to kind of talk to the team specifically about what they use for this round. Again, I think we've also, it depends on where your folks are, because I would say our alums, because they're kind of plugged into that college space or that workspace, being able to reach them by email is completely within the flow of what they would do.
Whereas for our students, especially as we wanted to verify information about, you know, enrolling in the program, making sure that they were ready for day one, text messaging can be so vital, because it's like, just in time, easy to respond really quickly. And keeping those questions really brief, meant that we would get exactly the information that we needed.
And finally, tip number seven from Sam Vander Wielen, Episode 207. $1 Million A Year with One Offer: Boost Your Sales with Bundling.
If anybody has a business in which, like, you know, it's not that you don't understand necessarily what your pain points are of your ideal client, but like the way that I explained, it is like, I've been a lawyer since I was 23. I never had a business when I wasn't a lawyer. So I like knew what people were confused about on a very high level, like, what how do I form my business? Like, do I need insurance? But I wasn't sure on the nitty gritty stuff of like, what are people getting confused? Or what are they getting stuck on? Or? Why did they not think this is important? What myth? are they hearing online? And me talking to so many people is so transformative? Because I'm like, oh, that's what you're worried about? Okay, no problem, I can help you with that. But what they were worried about was not what I thought they should be worried about, those things were very, very different. And I'm fine with that. I want to know where they're at and what they're worried about. And I want to explain to them, you know, whenever they need help with, but I thought that was super helpful to get very clear, if you like, or somebody who's not in it like or you haven't been where your clients have been.
And the only other thing I want to mention was that I still do research calls now. And I think that that's really important too, is that like, I hear a lot of people online, like a lot of online business coaches pushing people to do calls in the beginning, but then you ditch them. And I don't do free discovery calls anymore. But I do research calls where I do get on roundtables with people, we do calls after promotions with people, people who bought people who didn't buy people who sent us emails, but never bought. So I get on these calls all the time. And I'm still collecting data and still having these conversations.
That is awesome. And I totally agree with you that market research really should be a continual element in your business, there really is no end per se to learning about the people that you're serving with your products and services. As a sidebar to that, I guess, what are you currently utilizing to incentivize people to hop on these roundtable focus groups with you and give their time and feedback?
Yeah, so sometimes, like I've given, we've done it different ways, like so sometimes I've said to people, like, hey, I'll have maybe 10-15 minutes of questions for you. I'm happy to hop on for half an hour. And any questions you have, for me, I'm happy to, you know, answer for you at the end. So it's just kind of like a mutual exchange. Other times we've sent gifts, which we always tell them ahead of time, like we'll offer you this or that or the other thing. Other times, like I have something new that I'm creating, so I've given them an incentive so that they will get that product, if they talk to me, stuff like that. So I've used different things depending on the person.
That's awesome. Now, that I think is just something that is coming up a lot actually, in recent interviews, this idea of post promotion, similar to how a lot of people treat market research is something you do at the beginning of your business and then they never touch it again. Similarly, I think with launches, so much of the energy goes into the before the during that after it's kind of like Okay, it's done, wipe my hands clean move on, when really like you said some of the juiciest data comes from that after segment where you're asking people like why didn't you buy or why did you buy and understanding that process for next time? So I'm so glad that you expanded on that thought.
We're excited to be back with a brand new guest interview next Monday. But first, what did you think of this four part best of Roundup series? What was your favorite tip or episode? Is there a theme or topic we didn't cover this time that you'd like to hear covered in a future roundup series. Share your feedback as a review at ratethispodcast.com/cubicletoCEO, we'd love to hear from you. Thank you as always for listening in.
Hey, Ellen here. Thank you again for tuning in to cubicle to CEO. If you enjoyed today's episode, follow our show on Instagram at cubicle to CEO for more bonus content and hop on the last Tuesday of each month to watch our live after show with recent guests. If you want to support our podcast, text this episode link to a friend, leave a positive review on Apple podcasts or rate our show wherever you're listening right now. Please make sure you also hit the follow button on Apple it looks like a plus sign. Or click Subscribe on your favorite podcast player so you don't miss out on our new episodes every Monday and friends until next time, keep dreaming big!
