Hey fixers. I'm Dr. Jeanette Benigas, one of the cofounders of fix SLP. Our platform exists to discuss the biggest challenges that are currently holding back the field of speech language pathology, we present the issues with facts and invite you to be a part of joining this movement to make things better one conversation at a time. So let's fix SLP.
Hey, everybody, welcome back to fix SLP. This is Jeanette, if you are a new listener, I'm so happy to have you here. We recently went through a transition where I took over everything for the movement and the podcast had to be reassigned to my Apple ID. And when that happened, I watched a lot of followers disappear. It was also the same time that Google stopped Google Play. So that could have played into this a little bit. But in the last week or two, we've lost a lot of listeners, but I posted about it on social media and Oh, my word did you guys respond. So thank you for that. I'm so appreciative. So now I just need to unleash all of you to go give us a five star rating and good review and we'll be all set. today. We have our secret weapon back. Preston Lewis is here to do part two with me. I'm so excited to have him and really I think what this is going to turn into is Preston just hosting this podcast and I'll be here sipping my coffee just shaking my head. Yes. And agreeing. No pressuring at times. So we're gonna jump right into it today. We had this happened last week. Preston today. We as in I and then I sent it to you got a message from a fearless fixer, Elizabeth Nielsen, who has been working with NPR in Illinois. I think, for a couple months. This wasn't something that was a quick process. She reached out to me when it first started. I was interviewed weeks ago for it. So this was a long process. I've invited Elizabeth to come on the podcast to talk about the process. But the story came out. It's out there's a story and I by the time you're listening to this, it will have been posted at fix slp.com and on our social media, but there's also some little audio clips that are fun to listen to. So what did you think Preston?
I thought it told the story of the SLP who's just having everything pushed back against them, but still just loves what we do. And those are the folks out there that that Lizabeth Nielsen's the Audrey Meyers, these are the stories we really need to be hearing about therapists that are pushing so hard to make it in this field right now, Jeanette, it is. It's exciting. It's inspiring. But also I had a little bit of sadness, because I thought about a lot of the therapists I know, you know, a lot of them as well that have left the field or gone been reduced their hours or what they're doing in their capacity. And so I felt like these are people that are really pushing forward. I was so proud of Elizabeth, she is fierce. And what a great story. Public Radio is the venue to tell this story. Right now, from that audio perspective. I wanted to hear more of the horses in the background, because I know she does a lot of equestrian work. I was thrilled. This is great news for the profession. And I'm excited. This is great. This is the kind of news that we need, I think on a weekly and monthly basis to keep coming to tell our story. So that we're pushing back against a lot of things. And wow, I She's still so positive. But sometimes I get frustrated because I think about we're pushing back against the government, the big contract companies look, corporate rehab folks, the nursing home owners, the administrators and superintendents, the teachers, and that's bad enough, we're pushing it back against our national association. Yeah, it's tiresome. But while I'm so happy, the story was told.
Me too, and so early. I've been thinking a lot about when I'm going to post content. So here it is, verbally, everyone. I said this, when Asha announced that they raised their rates. I said, they gave us a warning. This is not going to be a surprise when the renewal letter comes in September, when it comes again in October, when everyone has to start paying in November when that deadline comes in December when you don't pay and you wait because we all know we can through January 31. It's not going to be a surprise and I said they gave us a warning. We need to do the work. Now. The time to do the work is not in September. The time to do the work is right now so we can undo some of this. So when it's time to renew we have the option not to if we don't want to and it's stories like these, it's getting the stories out in public It's the work that they're doing in Michigan and in South Carolina. It's that work that people are doing right now that are going to make the difference eight months from now.
This week, I contacted the Arkansas Medicaid office, because even though we got a positive response during our initial outreach, what what is that follow up response, I want to see some of those regulations that are being tweaked. And there's an email chain going back and forth right now. So I know that there are other folks that are in different states working on this. And some of them may not be seeing some of the pushback that some states or seeing if you've had that positive communication with the state Medicaid office or somebody within a state insurance body, if it's right now is the time that you need to follow up. And it's I can't instill that more that we just have to stay on top of it, especially if we continue on this state by state approach, which I love. Because early on, I know there was conversation, people said, What about a class action lawsuit? And yes, for some organizations that is had a big change, it can move a lot of things forward. But it goes so slowly in for us, I really feel like there is that option right now to go with this and some of our states and fix this right now in our name, rather than get lawyers involved and wait many, many, many years. And I think right now also, there is a quiet sort of a calm at ASHA, where they don't want to talk about fix SLPs there use some terms about us that are not always positive.
They literally won't even say our name in meetings. And I think it's because they're afraid of slander and libel. But that's just my own opinion. But yeah, they will not say they used to say my my first name and the co founders for saying we've heard that a couple times. B ut now it's just like, we will not mention them.
You will not be spoken out. Yes. I think also there's a good chance that they have gotten legal counsel, they certainly have a lot more resources and money than we do, where they have been advised. If this does go to a class action type scenario, I would be very nervous if I had some of those lobbying letters that we're still going out that we've seen in the past, where it looks like, even though there's a lot of folks in the pro Asha crowd that will say, Well, this is voluntary, until you show them the information, and then suddenly they get very quiet. But if they were to continue down that path, I think that that would raise the likelihood that in a class action suit that would come up as evidence. So all the more reason now is the time to reach out to your state organizations. Talk about your state licensing board and what that means and how it is, in many cases greater or at least equivalent to the actual CCC, which is a right to work instrument, or at least it's been used as such. People say, Well, what does that mean? That means that if you don't have that, then your entry into the SLP marketplace is limited if not even closed. And that's a very tricky thing for a nonprofit third party organization to hold over a profession. It doesn't really happen. Certainly not in PT and OT. It begs the question, if Asha decided to raise the CCC to $500 a year, how far would it go until somebody did say, enough's enough? Fortunately, I think there are enough SLPs out there that follow one of those quotes that I love which questioning the status quo is the heartbeat of progress. We we need to have those pushing forward right now to question what that is. But I also encourage those folks of Asha, who don't want to recognize us look at your own standards. Right now. If you want to raise the CCC at some point, do that make it voluntary, continue to do what you're doing. But uncouple this thing somewhere long ago, Jeanette, they decided this was going to be a wellspring for their revenue. And some other organizations walked away from that sort of thing like ot does with the OTDR. I would encourage them to do that. There's a way they can do it. But right now, this silence, I think this is our call to action.
Yeahm it's a time to get into it, get into that silence and make a change. Because if they're not going to talk, then we need to do the hard work.
The people that do talk, wow, some of the excess LP haters out there and some of the people that are just ardently sycophantic about Asha to where like you said, the ASHA, who like drinking, I've encountered that I decided to I was one of those people that decided mix and mingle on some of those actual Facebook posts, just to invite some conversation to invite some questions and some people don't like questions, Jeanette.
No, they don't. There is a lot of hate.
It comes from all sides. But that's it strikes me when there are a lot of passionate folks out there who are not going to be 100 plus sent accurate about every piece of information. We've seen that since the rate increase, some people will say, well, they're paying all the board members, which is not true, they pay their executives. But as soon as somebody makes one misstatement or somebody who's got a lot of fire and is just joined the conversation makes one error. Then the Kool Aid crowd comes in, and they want to discredit the whole movement. Yeah, all fix. SLP is one big disinformation campaign. And I look at the website Genet, and I look at the work that has gone into compiling state laws and state regulations and information this profession, in sometimes not even about Asha. And I think, wow, you're just gonna throw the whole thing out? To me, it seems incredibly insecure, right?
And it's surprising to me that people are expecting perfection from the information that comes from this movement. Because number one, no one is perfect. This is a grassroots effort that is coming from now one person, formerly two who have full time jobs and families and other responsibilities, and are really doing this to help. The movement is committed to accuracy. If there are inaccuracies, it's corrected, it's put on the website. But I don't understand why there's this expectation of perfection for the information that comes out when it can just be corrected. I haven't understood that from the beginning that why is it this movement? That must be perfect?
Sometimes I wonder, is it a threat to I tried to give him the psychology of those that are pushing back against us? Is that like I said, is it insecurity? Is it just because we're outsiders? I would love for somebody who's got that mentality to come on the pod. Talk to us. That's the thing that I've said. And I've had some very professional, very intelligent people come back and talk to me about Asha PAC, and how that's different. And people make optional donations to that. And so questioning the lobbying is maybe not necessarily fair, which that's that's a whole other debate. But when I have tried to come back around and have conversations with some of these folks on an individual basis, it's often met with silence. So that's the thing that I think disappoints me, not just with some of this, you know, not just with ASHA, their silence, but some of their most ardent supporters, it just seems to be a case of shoot the messenger, the people that are carrying this message, they must be wrong, they must be heretics, and we're going to burn them at the stake. And I don't understand it. I want them to come on, I want them to reach out. But instead, it seems often like this kind of sniping thing, which sort of, I think tendency tends to our worst social media instincts. And some people say, well, that's it's wrong that you're getting on Asha and on their Facebook page, and you're running them down. I think that it's good to invite different voices. And it's good to ask questions, particularly when so much released, almost 80% plus of your revenue is coming from a single product that you have lobbied to make it a right to work instrument, as many states as you can. And that is your main source of income. I'm sorry, I question that I really just think that, are you willing to modernize your business model to where you have voluntary people in an organization because that's where you get people who are truly engaged, and they're not like the therapist that I was for over a decade who my only relationship was this crummy newsletter that I got, I'm sorry, I'm just gonna throw shade on the Leader, but it I wanted to, like this periodical, I would open it and I would look at it and think, Well, I'm a sniff SLP, maybe there's something in here about a certain treatment, you know, actual therapy that I can provide, rather than just raw data. I didn't feel it. I never felt that welcoming. Presence. I never felt like there was something that I could chew on. So if you can't hook your audience in something like that, then find other things that you feel like you can appeal to the working class SLP I want. I want those messages that go to the Elizabeth Nielsen's and get them engaged. But right now, it just feels like we're going to stick with our pro Asha people, and we're going to ride along with them and everybody else who's not there, we're just going to ignore them. Pay no attention to them whatsoever.
Yeah. Well, you know, I do do just have to insert Preston, you obviously weren't reading the Leader closely enough in the last decade because I was highlighted twice once with a large article about spaced retrieval that you could have learned a lot from Go back boy. circle back.
Yeah, yeah. Spaced retrieval, okay.
Okay. So
Ah, okay.
I want to add this in, as we're talking about accuracy and being correct or incorrect. Before we get too far off of that NPR report. There is actually at least one little piece of misinformation that I picked up on, which was when the reporter said that Asha lobbies for supervisors to have the CCC and this wasn't our initiative. I was interviewed, but that was not information that I provided. I have a hard time believing SLP said that, although they could have, I just think that particular reporter may have misunderstood a little bit. So I don't want people thinking that fix SLP has said Asha lobbies to require supervisors have the CCC, they don't lobby for that. They just require it. In order to purchase the CCC, you have to have been supervised with someone who has the CCC. So I just want to put that out there. I haven't been lobbying efforts for that particular thing.
Going back to that story, the exbroadcaster in may notice this right away at the end of the story. And at a very clunky ending. Did you notice that Jeanette Yes. And that's not a I'm not putting down the journalist at all. I thought they did a nice job. But I have noticed that the end Asha comes up at the very end of the story, which is when most reporters would say the American Speech hearing Language Association and then offer a chance for something to be said a quote. I would be stunned if they hadn't contacted Asha for some sort of comment they did. Again, silence Go ahead. Do you know about this?
No. They did. And there was a quote. Did you read it?
No, I did. I listened to it. Because I was in the car.
What you heard is different than what was written. Yeah, the audio was very clunky. It did reach out to Asha. And it was recently and so I think that that was a late add in.
Oh, okay. Bury the lead Jeanette! Tell me - what was this? I want to know what the Oracle from on high has said. Okay, yeah, in a statement to WNIJ. And Asha spokesperson said they don't lobby to make their certification required, just to offer it as a pathway to licensure. Oh, boy.
And then that author dropped the mic. It was like, what statement? What's that letter to Nevada?
Yeah. And there are more that
And then Nevada did require the CCC for licensure. So a lot of things could have gone on. It probably wasn't the only effort from Asha that made that happen. But Asha was certainly a part of it.
They sent the letter to the state licensing board. It doesn't get any more complicit than that they were in the library with the lead pipe with Pro fessor Plum. What more do you need?
I mean that that, and that's the narrative too, as we talk about this misinformation, and these people who are pro Asha, somebody just said this to me this week on Facebook, in an academic group. There, somebody asked a very reasonable question about this platform and how to communicate with students. And of course, I was reading along and then I did jump in. And I was very professional. And I answered, and in my own way, and people started giving me I think, very well meaning advice, even though it was clear that they have not followed our content or movement at all. They've simply operated off the rumors instead of doing their own research. But one person said to me, this is I'm just gonna read it. Yeah, I want to hear this. The other thing you could do is aim for the entity to that matters. If you want states to not require the CCC, work with the states and not against Asha, your state legislators live in your community, your kids play soccer together, you go to the same dry cleaner, you talk to them, not a lobbyist who will be voting for them help the right regulators to clearly specify when the CCC is needed. And when it isn't. When you start doing progressive and positive things you might be perceived as wanting to fix SLP and not hurt Asha. So I jumped in and I said that's exactly what we're doing. What my exact response was, it's exactly what's happening in multiple states. The person came back and said, I know you're trying but when you state that you want to make the CCC optional, that's spreading false information because it is optional. And that's where my little spidey senses started to tingle. So I looked this person up and sure enough, this person has deep roots and ASHA, has been volunteering for years has held multiple positions, doing multiple things and hasn't...
obviously driving a DeLorean because she's gone back in time and has no idea what we have been saying for The last several months.
So I just said in 11 states, almost all SLPs will disagree with you. And SLPs in Nevada can't get licensed without it at all. No response? None.
No. And that's you won't get any at that point. And I know that we get all sorts of grief over any misstatement whatsoever, any slightest inkling of mistake, and then it's totally discrediting, but it strikes me also is that we are having a very fundamental debate about this. And you bring out that Nevada letter where Asha openly lobbies the state licensing board in Nevada, there is usually a just absolute deafening silence that occurs. But also, we haven't really even talked about all of the private sector jobs that mentioned right up front and their job description, the CCC. So this thing has seeped its way not only in the public sphere with Medicaid and several state agencies where they require it, but also into the private sector. So yes, it exists and to act like this thing is just some innocent little, you know, girl scout badge out there. I just don't get it. I don't see the sense in denial. I would much rather have a conversation that says, okay, yes, maybe we can start moving to a different point. And maybe we can even raise some of the requirements to make the CCC a bit more prestigious, where it goes above most of the state licenses and has an added value. Okay, great. Let's have that conversation. I would love to have that visit. But right now, it's just utter denial. I feel gaslighted.
That's what's happening. It's very, they're very word smithy. They're very creative when they do respond. So I suspect the silence will continue.
I'm really excited about the students that are out there right now. Because this is the message that was lacking. During my time in college, I just, I never felt like I was part of that group. All we heard was that Asha was like the, those movies where the Greek gods are controlling the figures, and they're moving around like pieces on the chessboard, and they're high atop Mount Olympus, and they're their ivory tower, and they know what's best for this profession. And from day one, the skeptic in me was just sort of saying really, okay. I, I don't know, Jeanette, it just, I think now about those students that are changing the way that their core curriculum has worked. And they're now advocating for minority issues, or LGBTQ initiative initiatives out there, and I'm excited for them. But I think that they are going to be a huge part of this change over the next decade,
they are going to be the change of spoken in a few platforms for grad students since fix SLP started. My own students that I've had, I have said, the seeds are being planted right now for what is going to happen 10 years from now, or 15 years from now, we're starting this, but it's your generation who's going to take this to the finish line, because this is going to take years to unravel and untangle and undo. And I am so excited because we're already seeing more progress than I ever thought we would this quickly. Stuff is happening, right? But it's still going to take a really long time. And so it's these students now they're listening. They're out there, they might not be listening to this podcast, but they're hearing rumblings. And somebody else in that same thread that I was mentioning earlier said something like I talk about this issue and fix SLP with my students, but I bring it up as a critical thinking, activity and you know, not running to the wrong person for answers. Clearly, like, not in support of fix SLP. But as I thought about it, I thought Bindo Thank you, because you don't agree with fix FLP clearly, but you're encouraging your students to be critical thinkers, and they might tend to agree with you right now. Because you're their professor and you. You've gained their respect and you've built some rapport, but they are going to get out in the real world. And they will see what's going on. And they will come to their own conclusion eventually. So so thank you for encouraging them to think critically and allowing them room to make their own decisions because I suspect they're coming in to this side of the field.
To think that'd be the definition of an alumnus is going to be so much different over the next decade because of virtual learning because of the pandemic, but also because of the way the field is changing and And if you aren't asking those questions, then you are stuck. I think in that I feel guilty because I was part of this cohort that has seen the wages and the reimbursement stall out. I think I was part of that cohort that originally just sort of took it for granted and said, Well, I guess we just have to pay this money every year, because I guess this is like a license when it's not. In Wow, now we've had our eyes opened. And I guess I'm glad that we're on the sort of beginning of this, but I really wish that it could have happened sooner. And that makes me perhaps have some regret. Bu t I'm, I'm glad we're here.
Me too. Me too. It's, it might have come from you. But Someone recently asked, well, what's the motivation? What's the motivation for doing this? What's the agenda, and for me, the motivation and agenda is to make things better. And even if that's not something that motivates you, we all have different personalities. And I like to take it back to the Enneagram we all have different Enneagram types. And advocacy is part of who I am, it is part of my personality, and it has been for forever, you know, I I'm not someone who likes the establishment or to be a part of controlled organization. So I was in a sorority for one year. And when I was in that sorority, for one year, I was the philanthropy chair, you know, it's just the, it's what I do, I, I took my family to this little gated community to watch the Eclipse because it was in the path of totality. And I was in that community every summer through a church organization that I grew up being involved in. And I was the youth service fund representative. And our tagline was money raised by youth spent by youth to benefit youth. That's what we did. And so I would help plan these huge, huge events, to raise money to give to other kids who needed money for, for whatever, it was a really cool thing to be a part of. I've been doing this stuff my whole life. It only makes sense that I do this, for the profession that I love. And I'm not raising money. But it's, it's still the same kind of thing. I'm helping to make a change where it changes needed. And I I was given a voice and a set of strengths that I can put to good use here. And that's it. And the motivation is it's fun for me to watch this stuff happen. It's fun to see, here's that I don't even know winning. Getting on NPR, getting getting a letter with draft legislation from their representative. You know, he's having their their boss, their HR department say, Sure we'll take this off the job description. That's fun.
It's change. Something different. It's not doing the same thing over and over again and getting the same year after year, the lack of reimbursements, the squeezing of productivity, feeling other professions but up against us. It's something different. This is defining and staking our own claim. I think for me, Genet motivation goes back to the patient. I feel such profound sadness when I think about, I've got about half a dozen SLP friends, a couple who have just walked away from the profession altogether. One's in real estate now and doing great, I'm so thrilled for her, but others that have backed down to PRN positions, and in some of them that make choices for family. I get that. But a lot of them left because it wasn't the same job that it wasn't the beginning or the growth that was there just stopped. Yeah, I think about the patients that have been denied the services from some of the best SLPs that I knew, and it just breaks my heart. And I think, wow, what what are we doing? Why if we're losing some of our best people, then we as a profession are not growing like we should. Right? That's my concern. It goes back to the patient. I don't know maybe that sounds hokey, but for me, it all begins.
And I think each one of us has these different motivations that we're bringing into this and it's all valuable and needed. And every effort is going to lead to those changes. I think, just doing your little part. It all helps. It all helps. It doesn't need your motivation doesn't need to be the same as my motivation. Just as long as we're here together doing this thing. I think it all works in the end. Doesn't matter. Doesn't do our motivations even matter. I mean, we're faking it. Who cares? No one cares.
I'm here to help.
Yeah, yeah.
What can I do
That's how change is made
Besides paying $250 A year and getting a newsletter, what can I do? And I know I can hear it right now. Well, you could get on this committee or you could be part of this little webinar. Yeah, yep. Yep. Yahoo. That's great. I can have myself muted one more time being on a webinar, because my question didn't really fit the topic, or my question kind of went against the message of the day, I just want to see those therapists that were like the ones mentioned in the public radio story, being uplifted in sometimes just being honest, that it's not all Raindrops on Roses and Whiskers on Kittens. There are some very dark things out there right now that SLPs are having to deal with, day in and day out. Let's be honest about it. Let's be honest about what this profession is facing right now. And not just huddled around this pack mentality, that the people in Mount Olympus know what they're doing. And if we just keep paying our money, and being good little stewards, then everything will work out. Because that has not been the case the past 10 years. Now I know people can look at some of the salary data and say, Well, look, it has grown, you know, in conjunction with compared to some other peer organizations, one thing I studied is from a data standpoint, that did concern me a lot is that pay increases for the nonschool SLPs in the last 10 years. That has been very, very dry. And yeah, that's the profession that I work in. That's most of the colleagues that I've seen have left the profession. That doesn't mean that school SLPs have had, you know, the day of Wine and Roses. But it does mean that there's something that's missing right now we're getting squeezed. And I'm sure there are national implications that go into that. But I don't see that honest conversation taking place to recognize that and say, How can we do this differently than we did 10 years ago? Because what we did 10 years ago isn't working?
Man do I miss that money I used to make it.
Well. I mean, that's the thing is that people say, Well, you know, it hasn't increased. It's not only that, look at everything that has increased, there is that ocean of difference there with an inflationary economy. And that I think more than anything, is what Asha really miscalculated. I get the information that was put out saying, Well, we haven't asked for a rate increase in so many years. Yes, I understand that. But we are in an inflationary economy. And our bottom line has not improved. And so yours needs to then people have that reflexive response where they look at those executive salaries, and they kind of scratch their head. And I drew some iron mentioning one of the executives by name, who's in my state, it's a great audiologist. But I really don't see $290,000 of advocacy, this is a very excellent person. That's not to diminish them. But I certainly haven't seen that kind of growth in the profession that I'm working in as far as my colleagues and myself. And so it begs a lot of questions as to why are these increases really necessary? If we're not looking at results? Can we put them with productivity?
We should. Yeah,
Best over our heads. But I wanted to go back for a minute. You mentioned back in college, you were in a sorority? I really want to know more about this. Jeanette, that was back in college, and kind of what that experience was like, because I have a feeling ours experiences were quite different. Hmm. Can I open that file?
The old Jeanette is - my husband regrets every day that he doesn't know the old Jeanette. Let's just start there.
Okay, do we need to have him on?
I was in college for a good time not to learn or grow. I
You like telling on yourself.
Remember I said last time, this is where I
self incrimination?
Yeah, this is where I self incriminate. Now I'm very I'm very open about my life. And it's a joke too. So I started college when I was 16 years old. In the state of Ohio. They have a bill. It's called the Senate Bill 140. It used to be for juniors and seniors only. But my sophomore year they were running a pilot program to see how students did if they entered as freshmen and sophomores. And so there was absolutely no criteria. All you had to do was sign up. I heard you get out of school to go to college and get some credits and I was like, hell yeah, I'm there. So I started college when I was a sophomore in high school and went consistently all the way through my senior year. My senior year, I was in college full time. I only went to high school for band. I was a major et which was more of a dance line at our school in yearbook. So that was my life. And so when I entered school, I had a year and a half of credits already done. And I was in between cohorts. So I had the cohort that was my own age, you know, the same graduation year, and then the cohort ahead of me. And I had a really hard time initially making friends and fitting in, especially because I was in college for a good time. And I, if I went to class at all, I would show up in my pajamas, and sleep. So clean through glass. I do not know how I got a degree with a fairly good GPA. So I got into grad school. So you know, I offer a lot of mentorship to a lot of people, and that includes my friends. And so when these friends from grad school call me to like ask a question, it's often preceded with I can't believe you're the person I'm calling to ask. Oh, no. And I'm like, Hey, I had it right. I had a fun time. grad school. However, I think I did it to myself. Professors maybe always didn't like me the boast because was I showing up for class was I the most committed? I would have hated me as a professor. Now I would have not been the favorite. I did enough work to get through with good grades. And the strength of mine has always been like book smart intelligence. I haven't had to study a lot or you know, it's that's been very easy for me. Thankfully, many other things come very difficult. Like, don't talk to me about numbers. So college. Yeah. S o college was was rough in terms of getting through the program, being well received by professors. Again, I did it to myself. I don't know. What do you want to know about the sorority? I got kicked out or I quit. It depends on who you ask.
I just I love that you were - I can just see you sending out letters and calling people and asking for you know, hey, we're having a party. Could you bring a free grill out there? So hot dogs and burgers? I don't know. I can just see this. It's very visual to me.
I know that I always had on a fabulous outfit. A lot of high heels. I was at the parties. Okay. I don't know how I'm still alive.
Fate. It protected you?
Yeah, literally. Yeah, grad school now. Then in grad school. I became a live in nanny. So I was a live in nanny. I lived there for free and had a set number of hours nanny and for the kids, and then I would commute to grad school. And I had I don't know how I made it through grad school. I barely remember my campus. And it's not because I was partying and having a good time. It's because I was working so much. I was a waitress. I was a live in nanny, and I was the church secretary and the youth coordinator of the youth group. When exactly was I going to class? Again? I don't know. But I made it through I somehow graduated with a decent GPA.
I'm right, though about one thing is that it was so different for both of us. Yes. The high school part. Now I can't identify you were taking those college classes. I think if there was like a logo or like an item that I would have buried in the time capsule of my high school experience, it would have been one of those Motorola bag phones. Do you remember those? I don't know if you're old enough to remember that.
I think you're only two or three years older than me.
Okay. Okay, so yeah, they had those. And for the younger SLPs out there that don't remember these, they had these like little leatherette kind of bags that you would have a cellphone in that was long and you know, you had to plug it in and with a cigarette lighter. You've analog phone, you might have had a minute plan that was 15 minutes on a good month, if you know you were calling after 9pm I had to carry one of these around because I was broadcasting my high school football team and basketball teams games. And that was how we broadcast back then was we've actually literally put this little cell phone hook it into a microphone and a headset, I'm probably going to be irradiated by some sort of wicked cancer later on, which I wonder about that sometimes. But this was this was high school version of me. And I was calling those ballgames and going from city to city and for for me that led into the, you know, first college years, which was still like a job, I was just going on the road flying to Nashville, Tennessee, or flying to Denver to do a ballgame for our basketball team and a lot of fun, but as far as the work experiences and being a young sportscaster, but it really didn't endear me or you didn't allow me to have that opportunity to to have a college experience that was traditional, and that was kind of sad, but each to their own. I got it back in the last couple of years of college but still did a lot of broadcasting. And then there was that pivot that I talked about on the last episode where I became a school speech therapy aide. That was a lot of fun. It was a good opportunity to really interact with the first people that I would consider patients. Granted I wasn't a billing SLP but I was interacting with students in middle school and then elementary school and that sort of born love for this profession in the communication that went into it then interaction with patients, but wow grad school Genet, my goodness, you know, I had the post baccalaureate in which that was okay. But once that admission happened, and I feel a little strange saying this because I'm a white male. But I went into a program that was predominantly female in my cohort, I was the only, I think I was the only male. I really felt, I'm gonna be honest, I felt a lot of discrimination in grad school. I did. I did. And I think some of it for some of the professor's was just not having dealt with a lot of male SLPs, especially ones that were may be coming to the profession as a broadcast journalism major, but also maybe a little bit of resentment, because some of the admission, wouldn't be honest, it may have been somewhat quota related, my GPA was good. I don't know that it was the best I had a good one is that the GRE that we took to get in at a good GRE score, but then got into the program, and encountered some really tough customer professors that were female. And I remember having a conversation with one where I had failed a couple of assignments. And I was just having a really hard time I would listen to see what it was she wanted for these assignments, write down all these details. And then something that she would have mentioned in passing was like the key thing she wanted on that assignment, and I would get an F. And finally I met with her in her office. And I said, Look, I know I'm having trouble with this. Is it perhaps possible for you to provide a written handout of what some of the assignment expectations are, that may help me and I will never forget sitting in her crummy little office. And she said, Well, I'm not going to do that unless you go down to student services, and get some sort of an accommodation for your disorder. My eyes about popped out of my head, and I was since I post baccalaureate into the field. I was in my late 20s and married and I just wasn't going to take that and I said, I'm sorry, that is very offensive. And from that day forward, it was a very animosity, you know, there's a lot of animosity in that relationship. And then when the student placements came, my goodness, we all sit filled out, I don't know how it was in your program, you fill out some of your interests in the field, where it is you might like to have a student placement. I of course, had no interest in school SLP work or pediatrics for that matter. But I understand we all have to have a broad experience. So I put down that I'm interested in sniff rehab, VA, outpatient, hospital, all those. And I've got about three school placements in about three pediatric placements, and I was going out of my mind. In fact, I think if it had not been for working at an adult habilitation center one they gave me one, placement two days a week, worked with a speech therapist who I still work with this day, I'm going to use her name Brooke Jeter, fantastic speech therapist, I think I would have washed out if it wasn't for that one placement. I'll tell one more story. I was at one of those public school placements Janette, would you believe I was accused of stealing articulation cards by my supervisor is yes, I and I'd already gotten a really negative review. I was having to go under a improvement plan with the same professor that thought I had a learning disorder and or had willingly or unwillingly diagnosed me with one, which I don't have. But anyway, I came into the office one day or at the school. And the speech therapist that was my supervisor there. She said, have you seen the th articulation cards? And I said, No, I haven't. And she said, Well, they're not here. And I said, Well, if you looked over here where we keep them, and I started trying to look for them. And I said I don't see them here. And she just she said Were you sure you didn't have them? And I said, Well, I think I had them three days ago when I worked with this patient, but I don't have them now. Well, they're not here and I don't know what I'm going to do about it. I felt terrible. And after you get asked something about three or four times or something is what's the expectation? Jeannette? You're thinking I'm being accused of stealing that? Yeah. So I finally went to a different school speech therapist that would periodically rotate through that elementary school. And I asked her I said, have you had these cards and I think it turned out she had and it came back to my supervisor that I had asked about them and I said, Well, I'm I think I'm being accused of stealing them. Well, she called me in about 20 minutes later and just rang me up and down, said, How dare you do this. And she just, I felt at that time, a bit of discrimination. I just felt like I don't know that I would be going through this same thing. If I was like every other student up here because I talked to my fellow students, and they said, Well, I've never had that happen. And she called that professor, the one that thought I had the learning disorder. She showed up within 30 minutes, and they came up there, and both just took me down to size. And so when I finally got out of that program, Jeanette, and I, fortunately, I didn't wash it out, I just decided to put one foot in front of the other. But I remember visiting with the Vice Chancellor, or the dean of the department, I remember visiting with the department chair, and putting forth concerns and grievances. And they were all ignored. Yeah, there was this like now. Now, this is all in your head. There's there's your front along. And that's where we've mentioned it earlier, when I hear about those students now that are pushing for different things. And some of them are a little bit beyond me right now. I must admit I'm, I'm a enthusiastic person about some of the LGBTQ stuff out there. But I will openly admit, I don't know everything about it. But I do see those accommodations taking place now. And some of that culture change happening. And I think, Wow, well, I'm glad that's different, because it was not different when I was there.
Yeah there is some exciting stuff. I always love to shout out great work, and I see it. My friend, AC Goldberg owns the credits Institute, and he does a bang up job. One of the things that he offers is like a 62 hour course that my employer had purchased for us. And he helps you bring diversity into your courses. And he'll look at your syllabus, and there's all these assignments. And so there are resources out there for educators to be learning if if they're open to it, and His credits Institute, sell some of that. So, yes, yeah. I you know, it's interesting, I always found that non traditional students were my best students, the older ones, the ones who are married with kids, you probably would have been my favorite.
Well, we had, you know, there were positive experiences. I remember one of the cool things was in the post baccalaureate, I went to a different college there. I had the speech therapist in Arkansas, that she's now passed, she was really a very kind soul. Her arc showcard, which that's our or not Akshay, excuse me our best but card, which that's Arkansas board for speech therapy. She had the number one love that. Yeah, that was awesome. And so she was really a pioneer in the field. And I wonder now, I think some of those folks would still be in that academia crowd that is a little cold about embracing fix SLP. But I will say this for some of those, those Kinder professors that I dealt with back then that I think found intrigue with somebody who was coming from the outside. I think that they would be in that group, which you mentioned earlier. They may not agree, but they're okay with questions, and they're okay, engaging. And I think sometimes that's just what we want more than anything is not to be afraid to communicate, because isn't that what our profession is all about?
Yeah. And communicate and be okay to agree to disagree? Not and on a silent note, or
not telling me that my $250 A year is totally voluntary. Bad. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,
I definitely with my clinical rotations flew under the radar. I somehow just always made it but I'm very good on my feet. And so and I have three clinical rotations in undergrad. So by the time I got to grad school, our clinical instructors were tough in house, and they left me alone, because there were students who had no idea what they were doing. And I had already done two in house and one school rotation, I was fine. I was independent. And I think probably I made their jobs easier. Whoever was supervising me those semesters, because I could just pick up materials and walk in and figure it out and treat and so if I was going to class during grad school, I was definitely flying under the radar. But they didn't all hate me. That's how I ended up with a PhD. One of my professors encouraged me non stop, and I think I've talked about the story on the podcast before when are you getting that PhD? When are you getting that PhD? And he's the one who introduced me to my mentor. So he obviously saw something in me that I didn't necessarily was aware of at the time, because I had no interest in staying in school or going back to school. No, none, but I think that's where the turning point was for me that I was out in the field for three years, I realized that I really, maybe could have done a better job paying attention, that I had no idea what I was doing and had to get my act together. And started to which then led to the PhD. And so then when I went to get that PhD, I was very committed, and a lot of PhD work is independent study anyway, so I didn't have to, there was a full year of going to classes, which I did, I loved all of the classes that I took, but I also got to pick those classes. Those classes were directly related to the things I wanted to study and do and found them to be very interesting and some life changing, practice changing, life changing hospice and palliative care out of the nursing department, amazing. Best course I've ever taken. So I didn't come around until my mid 20s. When I went back for the third time
beyond academia, I want to be positive about this. That feeling of discrimination vanished, once I got into the workforce, the sniff world was the great equalizer. Because if anything, I found that some of them I do ours were glad to have a male SLP in some of these locations, because there was always that one crusty guy in the dining room, Carl, who was a veteran from a war and he was a big sports fan. He doesn't want to talk to anybody. You've got to go figure out what's wrong with Carl, he choked on something the other day, and he won't visit with anybody. So I go down to the dining room and I find Carl, I sit down, he's got a very stern look on his face, like what does this guy want? And I learned also, it's not a good time to talk about sock blue and bed when you meet people like Carl, let's get to know Carl first. So I would sit down and say Hey, Carl, you've you've been kind of angry lately, what's going on? And he'd look at me and I'd say, you know, the Razorbacks or college team? They won last night. That's one reason to smile. And you'd see that lip kind of curl up in the corner just a little bit. Yeah. And he'd finally start talking. And I'd say, Carl, what's what's going on? Talk to me. And, you know, are you do you feel like the nurses aren't doing this or this? And he's finally shook his head. And he said, No, no one's listening. He said, I'm not upset about the nurses. It's that SOB I have to sit next to in the dining room. Great. So I can move you we moved in to one table over a month later, the DLR and the administrator come down. And they come to my desk and they said, What did you do to Carl, he's suddenly become a model student. And I said, I just moved in from Bill. But there was a, I think there was a great embrace of having a different perspective SLP in the work setting, because it was seen as an asset and a tool, and not something that was just different that somebody didn't want to handle. And that was a good thing. Because again, that experience in college not being so great. It would have been tempting to have left the profession pretty early. B ut I stayed with it other than that, soiree into politics, which somehow has kept me relevant in the Fix SLP. World, I suppose.
I have to wonder if you were also well received, you said because you were a male, but because and here's, here's my take on this as a woman, you know, sometimes were looked at as whining, nagging women, and not always as respected as men in a medical setting. And so I do think sometimes, male SLPs are more respected in medical settings, simply because you're male.
I think that could be the case. I mean, that's very arguable. I would also resign, I think that's probably more true than untrue. Although I've had my behind pinched by many a feisty little 90 year old lady love that. You know, there are times where, I don't know that I've always had it both ways. But it happens. And I'm sure you've had it happen to your profession where you walk in and they'll say, Hey, doctor, you know, I need to tell you about this. I have not the doctor. Let's let's get that clear right now. So I don't know that I've traded on it that often except in situations with dealing with topics of sports and history and those kinds of things to relate to the patients. I often felt like if a doctor that I was going to call up for something, they were either going to play ball or not, I don't know, maybe gender did factor into Jeanette, but one thing to think about. I don't think it hurt.
Especially with the patients who are coming from this very patriarchal society. Oh, the doctor said "da da da". Those doctors were always male. Even still, today, we still have our 80 year olds, 90 year olds. Oh, sure. Who are very the doctors. My mom is about to turn 78 haven't talked about this story in full on why I disappeared for a little while, but my mom has breast cancer. She had surgery, got an infection. The oncologist told her she needed chemo and well the doctor said, so I'm going to do it. And she didn't want chemo. She didn't. She told me before a chemo ever started before she even though she knew she needed it, that she didn't want chemo. She's had cancer twice already. She didn't want to do it a third time. I wasn't on that phone conversation where she got the news and I missed the first chemo appointment. Like the two things I've missed through this whole ordeal. When I said, Mom, I do you fully understand why you need this. I thought they got everything with surgery. I thought you didn't want chemo, she was mad at me. Well, the doctor said. I said it doesn't matter. Mom, we don't live in that world anymore. Just because the doctor said doesn't mean you have to do it. You should fully understand your plan of care why you need this, why he's recommending it and then have a conversation about well, what if I don't want this? What happens to me then, and then decide. It's not you get a call on Friday, you need chemo, and then you will show up on Monday with an infection and he gives it to you anyway. And now you're in the ICU for a week in the hospital for another week. Like so how this works.
I imagine you're a great patient, aren't you Jeanette?
I'm an ok patient but I am a great advocate for those who ...With my, when my dad died. I was in that hospital. He was in the hospital for 10 weeks. There was at the end of my dissertation, so I had the time. And man, it was not a good time for them.
Well, I'm going to ask the question that a lot of fix SLP audience wants to know is how is your mom?
You know, she's doing all right. She was living with us as well. So she was in the ICU then in the hospital. Then she lived here, which I think was a tough time for all of us. She is getting stronger. So her white blood cell count was down to 0.5. And I rushed her to the hospital, thank goodness, I ripped her out of her home and said you're coming to my home, and then watched her deteriorate after another day or so. And I said we're going to the hospital and she wasn't yet septic. But it was really bad. She had to go and have a debrief moment. And it she was a mess, she was masked. So just getting stronger. She's at home doing her own laundry, feeding herself. She's retired. So I've been encouraging her you need to kind of start getting back into life a little bit. We fired that oncologist met with a new one who has been fabulous. Man did that oncologist model, patient centered care and shared decision making, which is what I wish our field looked like when it came to thickening liquids. So something to shoot for. It was great to see it in action from someone else in the medical field that educated my mom on her options, my mom made her choice and the doctor was like, great, we're gonna support that. I want to meet with you again in two weeks just to make sure that still your decision. So we meet with her again tomorrow. And now we're moving on to the radiation conversation. She may want to forego radiation, she might not we're having that conversation. We're sending questions. So but it's patient centered. Yeah. Or she has the radiation, I might disappear for a little while longer because it's 15 rounds over three weeks.
So we'll be thinking about you. But I think a positive thing that I noticed this week is when you reached out to the Fix SLP audience about the podcast and making sure that the subscriptions it carried forward with some of the app updates, there was a groundswell of response, I still see a pretty steady amount of traffic on Pumble, this, this is not going away. And granted, there was going to be that big flashbang with the ASHA rate increased, but this has gained a foothold. And I think we saw that this week. And that had to be heartwarming.
Yeah, it was because for me being gone for so long, really just stepped away from Fix SLP completely. At the same time, my co founder was like, I don't know if I need to continue with this. Very much worried about the future of what Fix SLP was going to look like and knowing I had my work cut out for me taking over the role that was now empty, and then getting caught up with a role that I was filling. I was worried and then when I saw the subscribers go down, I had forgotten about the transfer because we put in for that transfer a while ago. And I was like, what, what just happened? This is falling apart, like what's happening and then I remembered, Oh, I bet my Apple account is the owner of fix SLP now and I logged in and sure enough there it was. And I was like, okay, and then well I you know, I just have to reach out and ask and the other thing that you didn't see was this week I also reached out to the AAC community to ask for help. Because that was one of the projects that I was working on. I actually had a meeting with a Tobii Dynavox. Person, the day I rushed my mom to the hospital. And so I had to cancel that meeting because I was sitting in an ER, and I have not been able to circle back and there is a lot of questions. Do we need the CCC to purchase an AAC device? The answer is no. But I still have more work to do. From my end, before we have some kind of call to action or whatever. So I, I reached out for help. And I said, I need people who are passionate about AAC who will kind of like do do the work kind of like they're doing in Michigan, but do it with the AAC community. I said, I need people to help me because I can't do this alone. And this is a really important topic. And people responded in droves. I wanted three. And I think I got 30 in the first hour. And so. So if you're someone who responded, I tried to respond to everybody, I just kind of took the first five or six people, I'll be meeting with them, probably all five or six can't commit, I'd like to see it get down to three. So it's more manageable. But if I need more help, I'll be reaching out. So that was a standard sort of that previously fixed SLP wasn't going to take volunteers but I as a one woman show for now, you'll maybe we'll get some permanent fixtures down the road. But I need to figure out how this is working for me and what needs done and what roles need to be filled. And then we'll go from there. I need help. I can't do this alone. And it's I love I that's hard for me. Asking for help is really hard for me. So I took some big steps this week,
you're building a good team. That's the thing. My weaknesses right now, that's a lesson that we had to learn in politics is that and I was very guilty of this, I would ride out in front of an issue. And I wouldn't build my bench, I wouldn't have three or four other council people behind me on something. And that was a lonely feeling sometimes, but that's passion for you. That's part of what it is. And so you've got the AC thing. We've got another meeting coming up in Michigan pretty soon. It's an exciting time.
Yeah. This seems like a good place to wrap up.
Absolutely.
Unless there's something else on your list that no, you want to talk about. This is great. We're gonna have you back. Maybe not. For Part Three, I have a couple other people that I fan girl over who are going to come on just good. I want to hear their stories. And then hopefully, Elizabeth will come on and talk about this NPR thing. So audience, people apply to be co host, I have not ruled any of you out, no one has been excluded. I contacted one or two people, and then have all these other things lined up. So I've got you in the can and I think I had a deadline. If you want to come on and co host if there's something you want to talk about go to fix slp.com. I think I have a link there. If not, it's on social somewhere. Apply. I'll be looking, I'll be circling back. This podcast isn't going anywhere. Eventually. Hopefully, I have a permanent fixture that to come on with me. But for now apply. Get it. And if there's a deadline, I don't care. I can't tell whether you're talking to me or the audience. So I'm looking at you because I'm talking to the audience.
No, I did. I did turn in a I did turn in an application.
Did you?
I did. Yeah.
I didn't read it.
Yes, I did. It's short. I you know, it felt like since we had already visited I didn't want to you know, ad nauseam so I didn't put a recording or anything like that. But I wanted to be very clear as well that just I think there's a I think you're gonna get a lot of great options. I think you have to look at them. Awesome. You might be one of those is the one you pick. I want you to know that. If you go with somebody else, my work here continues as it is. So you know I'm having a ball helping these folks out and I want to keep knocking on those doors and you know, harassing state legislators and doing my thing. I think I can add a different voice sometimes I think I can add some different experiences and a different angle. But you know, you could do good just having a roving band of contributors to and I happen to be one.
Okay, so let's wrap up here. Preston. We'll see you again sometime on the pod. Absolutely. Give us a five star rating and review. We don't want four. We don't want three. We want five. I normally like hey, I'd say subscribe, but I think a lot of you already have so I'll just say thanks for fixing it. And I'll see you guys next week.
