Great. Well, thank you for that introduction. And it's really good to be with you all. It's my first time in the nightclub and in the vibe is the vibe is strong. And I wanted to you know, I'm the new guy. I was wondering where y'all are from if if you could put in the chat where you're located. City State wherever you feel comfortable with sharing I just love to see. Yeah, how spread out we are the you know, I'm in Philadelphia and it is everything is blooming now I've got this beautiful trellis of Wisteria in my backyard that's just exploding like it hasn't done in years. So we got Massachusetts, Nevada, New Hampshire, Manitoba. Nice, nice woodacre California. Great. Savannah, of course. I grew up outside. I grew up in Atlanta, Texas, more Canada. Boulder. Excellent. It'd be shocked if there was no boulder representing. Nice. Well, thank you. Oh, that's That's great. That's great. Oh, nice Mexico. Okay, welcome. This is This is excellent. So you've heard my you've heard my introduction. I've been at this for a while I've been doing dream work. In one way or another since about 2005. And it hasn't been my full time work though. I think healing work and dream work is often has to be done in balance and the way that I balanced myself for quite some time was internet marketing. And these days, and then after that, I went into working for congregations and working in congregational settings as a spiritual director and and I'm back now working for myself again full time for the first time in like a decade. I did a lot of state home dabbing when my kids were really young for a number of years. And so it's a really cool Renaissance for me personally right now to have the flexibility and the time to to really delve into the dreamwork into consciousness studies to meeting with groups like this as well as teaching my own online courses and I do have an online school called Dream studies Academy. And in Yeah, and in fact, analysts said it was okay to mention that I've actually got a class that starting next week called the luminous knights, the spirituality of the dark, which is about big dreams. And so I can send a link for that later. I'm not really concerned about that. I really want to just focus and be with y'all for tonight. And a couple more here. Sarasota is in the house in Maryland. Nice. So, so yeah, so it's good to be with you. So what we've got is my little book, tiny little book. I'm sure some of y'all have it in the mail because I did notice a flurry of sales over the weekend. I tried to mail them out as quick as I could, if it hasn't gotten there. Hopefully the mail will agree with him and cross our fingers that they'll come to you soon. And so this little book is kind of came out of nowhere. Honestly, it started off as a creative project. When I was thinking to myself, How can I give people more in depth information about this approach that I've been working with with lucid dreams, and I almost called it a new approach, but it's actually the opposite. It's actually a very old approach to working with dreams, using amulets using talisman using liminal objects using right sacred psychology to sort of tether or anchor our intentions. And that's the core of what that little book is about. And it came out of the fact that I sell these talisman on my website lose a talisman.com, which is a partnership that I have with my buddy Lee Adams, who also is a lucid dreaming author you should check out by the way, he's got a it's got a wonderful book on lucid dreaming. And Lee makes coins for living he does he makes challenge coins. He's got a military background. He's a veteran in challenge coins is a really big deal. into that particular niche. And he's, you know, came to me one day and he was like, hey, I want to make a coin and it I was like, let's make a dream coin. He was like, Okay, what would that look like? He kind of didn't believe me that it would work or he kind of thought it was kind of gimmicky, but I really got into it. I went to all these like old dusty libraries near my house and uncovered some really cool lore that really got into you know, the archaeology of the dreaming we could say the archaeology of consciousness. And so we designed just for fun. I think 50 of this first batch of loose a talisman and we didn't sell them we gave them to our friends and we kind of carried them around, you know, just ourselves to see what would happen and it was amazing. Like they clearly began to work really quickly. That was the part that surprised me. Is that it for me it really is effective for concretizing My intention for making my reminding myself that a check in basically right to check in with reality to check in without feeling it. It can come a mile an object of mindfulness in a similar way that Alcoholics Anonymous uses the token so it can become a sort of de stressing object a grounding object as well. And so it can be used for mindfulness. And here's the thing right, it became I began to have more vivid dreams my dream or recall went up just as naturally does when you're excited in any way about dreams. If you have conversations or you read books about dreams, like it happens quickly, right? These bridges start to be built with the dream world. And so what happened with the coin, but what surprised me was is that I began to have actual dreams, with the lucid talisman showing up spontaneously, and I wasn't prepared for that. I did not think that it would had this sort of inception effect, where the talisman itself would inject itself into my dream sphere. And I became lucid in the dream because I would see the talisman so we became you know as we say you know, in Stephen LaBerge his language, he became a dream sign. It became a way of realizing that I'm dreaming. And that happened again, it happened really quickly. And I said, Okay, maybe I mean, maybe I'm biased just because you know, I made this frickin thing. So maybe we need to sort of see what's really going on. And so but my friends and I have a cousin who also had a same effect. He began having more lucid dreams. And so we said, Okay, we got to we're going to take this further. So that's it. That's the origin story really of this. And so we've been selling these lucid talisman since 2015. I believe. They've gone all over the world. I think six continents at this point, none. Sadly in Artica waiting, keep waiting for that one, but they've gone more places than I've got. A lot of them you know, and I think in the postmasters hands too because I don't know there's something about them. They have a material nature they need they go where they go. So I ended up sending out replacements actually more than more than you think. But that's kind of part of it seems that's part of it. So yeah, that's that's how it started. So I wrote the book to really give people some more training into how to work with this object and take it deeper and I infused it with essentially my own sort of psychology spiritual psychology that I've been, you know, distilling, I guess over the last 20 years or so, with my own lucid dreaming research. Which is always a work in progress. Yeah, so I'll start the introduction that way, and then what we'll do is I'll read a little bit and then we can open up I have a couple of a couple of questions that we can go about. This is a nice sized group that I actually think that we've got what 40 So we can take text questions in and I can do some q&a kind of interspersed throughout tonight's event we don't have to wait for the end. And and Alyssa Yeah, elicit feel free to interrupt me or get my attention if you're seeing comments. And it seems like a natural place.
Okay, great. I appreciate them. I've got I've got it up here but just in case. So with that, I love to see I know not all of y'all have your screens on but for those of you who do, who has a copy of the book in hand. So I'm seeing a couple, a few. Okay, so some of this is going to so for most of you, this is going to be this is going to be now so i'll read slow. I'm going to kind of kick into my like Georgia, poetry reading voice, which is what I do. When I start to read. It's I had to actually unlearn this when I begin doing ministry because that's a completely different cadence. So what we're going to do, we're going to get back into some into some Faulkner style. And we're gonna read the first chapter, the introduction of lucid talisman forgotten lower.
Here is the Forgotten lower for using the lucid talisman. It's a modern version of an ancient ritual object used for focusing and refining consciousness. No matter the version of the lucid talisman that you have in hand. This guide book will help with activating this cognitive tool for encouraging lucidity in waking life and in your dreams. Talisman in amulets have been used throughout history and across cultures as magical dream objects. More precisely, they are liminal objects, which is to say that traverse the waking world and the dream world. Lucid talisman is an effective tool for promoting lucid dreams which are dreams in which you know you're dreaming catches you have to use the talisman actively. You have to incorporate the talisman into your daily life, through habits, moments of contemplation, and opportunities to experience the Wonder of Consciousness. This is a modern take on the kind of ritual life to which our minds respond well. If not used actively, then what you're holding in your hand. Is a very pretty paperweight. And honestly, I often use one to keep my book open. It's pretty effective at that too. But this is not a treatise on paperweights. The small book frames lucid dreaming within the story art of using ritual to transform consciousness. Then we will illustrate the essential practices for inducing lucid dreams. And then specific practices for integrating your talisman into a lucid lifestyle are explored. Finally, this book integrates the practice of lucid dreaming within the larger context. Of the quest for self knowledge, or what can be called the alchemy of consciousness. So yes, that's where that's that's how the book starts. And I will say that my talismans act as paperweights quite often, and there's nothing wrong with that. But as we'll see, if you don't do that, if you don't keep your talisman charged, what happens is it loses its juice in the section in the book that talks about this is like way, we're not going to get to it to week four. So but I want to kind of press that onto you you know now how important it is that if you use any kind of dream amulet, it doesn't have to be you know, my particular lucid talisman. And I encourage you to to pick up your own dream amulet and to you know to play with these ideas, you know, to keep it charged and what does that mean right? It means to to only basically use it for the purposes of your intentionality and then let it go or put it away and that's really the main thing. That's the main thing when you when you have a talisman or amulet and you find it banging around in the laundry machine. In a pair of your pants. That's a sign that it needs a rest. That's a sign that it's lost some of that juice, and it needs a rest. So that said I'd love to. I'd love to see maybe what we'll do since there's 40 of us another if y'all could put into that chat. What is an amulet or a talisman or you know, Lucky objects that you use in your life now, or maybe if you don't now, when you did when you were younger? Because, you know, becoming aware of these objects and how actually they're pretty. They're pretty common, more common than you'd think. It really shines a light on this hidden aspect of awareness. Dreamcatcher catcher is a perfect example. So I've seen that in in the chat. Yes, yeah, right. The dream catcher, we put it up on our wall it catches nightmares. Berries bear claw. I don't actually know what that is. Takes me it takes me a description of that. Anyone ever, ever will ever have a lucky rabbit's foot when they were a kid?
The Ripa amulet. Yep. Are stone hearts. Right, right. And now when you could find those in shops or you can. You can also just you know, it's always wonderful. To see caught as a stone, a stone shaped like a heart when you're out on the trail. You know, I love picking those up. I've seen a stuffed chicken
Lapis, very nice Lapis. So So yeah, you know different stones have different properties and I'm not an expert in crystals at all. By the way. I've barely gotten into I see someone as that Laura's holding up a powerful object. It's wonderful. Bound stones, protection cords. Are stones and jewels for prostrations. I love that. A Blackstone. Yeah, Blackstone you know I've got some machine you're mine. Got a nice piece of obsidian right here. That was kind of how I got into this too. Okay, yeah so arrowheads right when we find when we find presence of the prehistoric past you know I'm an archaeologist by training and I can't help but always look for objects when I'm when I'm on the trail and you know, the arrow has been long since picked up more or less in my area, but what I find all the time are scraper tools and pounding stones and things of that nature in debutante right like flakes of quartz and Flint that were made from tool napping and those objects I just you know, I my practice when I find a native object is I think the objects. Sometimes I take a picture of it. And I'll also take a picture of its GPS coordinates using my my digital compass. And then I'll put it back more or less where I found it. And you know, I live in the east coast you know, it's the woodlands and so, for me the practice is simply to put the stone back near the sort of the biggest tree you know, distinctive tree near the trail like right by the roots. And that's a way of where it can be found later if it needed to. But it also sort of protects it and it lets it still hold it space. That's great. Yeah. So So we're, you know, we've we're just surrounded by and protected by all of these, these wonderful magical objects all of the time. And it's, it's, they're surprisingly common. It's actually a part of, of modern life and you know, this didn't come up but a lot of people have you ever noticed when you're driving around in a car, how many people hang something from their rearview mirror, like if we need protection, y'all it is on the road in fact, I see probably more dream catchers on the road. I live in an African American community in Philadelphia, and there are a lot of dream catchers. It's a very popular Amulet of protection around here. I've got myself a st Christopher's medallion that I've had probably for 25 years or so that I keep on my key ring. That keeps me safe. So yeah, this is all to say that we know how to do this. We've been doing this for a long time. I'm going to pick up here and I'm gonna go into a little bit of the history of amulets, this is pretty short. So the definitions and the distinctions between amulets and talisman it's richly storied, and it's peppered throughout antiquity, in mainstream as well in esoteric texts. For example, an 18th century scholar named Martin bloomer to find the amulet or emulate them in Latin. In 1719. He described it as this in a strict sense of the word it designates an object covered with letters, images or figures, serving to guarantee its singular effects with the help of celestial forces. There are painted carved and written amulets. amulets claimed to have fallen from the sky or dug up or discovered by chance. They are old and new. Large and small, obscure, made from metals, papers or stone. And again, that's from a 1719. The French acknowledges Dominique commu. He reframes the tradition of carrying an amulet for the purposes of protection. Using the innate powers of the found object. Whereas a talisman, on the other hand, involves a more complex practice of ritually enhancing an object by harnessing what he calls active universal forces through transference. So, so we've seen a little bit there's really there's two different traditions going on here and with the words and how they're used. So this distinction of ritual enhancement is also the view of the occult historian Claude Lika. to Now he's a rational guide, I find him still open to mystery and the power of ritual. He's got a number of wonderful bucks in translation. He traces the word talisman from till Psalm, which is Arabic, and before that, from the Greek tell sama. kilo means to bring to an end right? So it's, or an apocalypse or transformation. To lead to a or to lead is an ancient Greek goddess of ritual of consecration and by the late Byzantine era, to let a itself was known as the magical ceremony that came from this goddess. So we've been throughout these lands in these traditions the objects known as talisman were known as ritual objects, and designed to incorporate various spirits or powers in order for the user to wield beneficial magical power. And so when an amulet in with this distinction is found, or it already has sort of its innate powers of the universe, the cosmos with the material itself, its crystalline structure. Perhaps like that is where his power is derived from, whereas a talisman is a you know, is consecrated. It's brought in through ritual, it's enhanced through magic. Plus, we have this distinction, right of an amulet being to ward off and a talisman or to protect in a talisman can be for many different kinds of purposes. So today that the terms amulet and talisman are often used interchangeably, and that's fine for our purposes, as long as you know how you want to put your magical dream object into service. So under still understanding the depth of the history here, how objects have long been used to transform consciousness is central to how the lucid talisman can affect your dreaming. So here's the question, are you looking for protection from nightmares, or perhaps intending to catapult into one of the easily accessible liminal zones of the dream world? These kind of aims these kind of questions are second nature to us. They cut through the forgetfulness of the modern era with ease. The old ways remember us even when we have forgotten them
if you have something that comes up for you, feel free to go put it put it in the chat put it in the text and and I'll get to it. I don't really have anything to say about this except to say that I am not an expert on talisman and amulets like this, this this research that I did scratches the surface of tremendous wealth of knowledge. The archeology of magical objects is something that I have a passion for, but I don't consider myself an expert of it. And I'm continuously finding new examples of the way that dreams and Dream Dream amulets had been put into service. In fact, I just came across something today for the first time that I think is a Syrian object that was used in a household context to in I believe, second century BCE to ward off Knight demons. It's a theme that we'll come back to in a number of times in the book, especially in the chapter in protection. But here we see an amulet being used in a you know in an ancient way to to ward off negative forces and forces of the night right so forces of the night and so they perhaps did not call it a dream. But there is a vulnerability of the night. That of course we all feel and I think the modern era right and in a large sense we are we live in defense of the dark with our practices of electric light, with our practices of letting Hollywood dream for us. Smartphones that we cradle, until we sleep in, like yo, I am a parent of young children I Netflix and chill you know that is part of my practice sometimes I Netflix and chill. How different is this than our ancestors in most of the time that we have been human? In a long you know, in the long view, right and say even the last 200,000 years, it's just such a blip of what we're doing to our circadian rhythms and the way that we use light. And I can only think that our imagination and a deep sense is threatened by this practice. And in our sensitivity to subtle shifts in weather and everything. Energetically and every possible level is blunted. By, you know, Wi Fi and, and electrical noise and electro magnetics and everything else that's happening. So, so, amulets are a way of taking us back to these old ways. They are a physical presence that can remind us of our better nature, to practice going to sleep in a mindful way. And what does that look like that looks different for everybody? And I'm seeing a comment here saying that the fireside has more magic image still than Netflix and it does right and when do we conjure through the fire when we look into the fire? We see things we we definitely the fire is a source of divination as well. I'm seeing another comment other than dream catchers, are you aware of other objects that were used by the Indians I suppose Native Americans or other ancient cultures to influence dreams? So yes, and so this is it. There is a there is a rich and I would say a hidden esoteric history of dream amulets that we know of and it has not been collected as such in this book does mention a few of them. I mentioned the chapter and protection. We're gonna get there. There's you know, there's more for sure that I documented. But, you know, I think most of them are hidden in the literature and as anthropologists, especially early if early 20th century anthropologists or late 19th century anthropologist when they were talking about people's beliefs about say, spirits or entities or creatures, they blew them off and they also did a lot of like weird Freudian analysis as they wrote down what people said they they had this entire the structural perspective of people's beliefs. And we, a lot of those traditions and cultures are gone now. You know, that's part of the, that's part of this, this modern era. Yeah. So there is a, I would say a rich hidden history that is active. So I think these these are there are practices that aren't talked about that are that are active. And I believe that there's plenty of artifacts that are mislabeled and misunderstood that are currently on display and for every object on display, right, there's 1000 of them in a cardboard box on a shelf in the basement of that particular museum. That no doubt we're dream amulets of one kind or another.
So I'm looking at the first chapter here of the book origin story. I basically already told that it's the story of me and Lee deciding to to do this together. But I would like to share the dream that came up from this process of when I began holding the lucid talisman myself. And so on page two I write personally once I began to curate the talisman, I immediately started having better dream recall. In more lucid dreams. The Lucid Tasman took on a vibrant and autonomous role in my dream so autonomous meaning that it was self directed it seemed to be it had its own energy it had its own will power. And in fact, the talisman seemed to provoke me into lucidity. In one dream, for example. I am outside near a group of people at a picnic when I see the lucid coin bouncing up and down in front of my face as if it was on a string. So it's literally just like kind of like making this motion in front of my face. And I look at it curiously for a moment, and then I think, Oh, I'm dreaming. And so that was it. That was that breakthrough moment of the coin, reminding me and showing me that this was a dream. So several people shared with me their dreams to Towson, directly provoked lucidity within their own dreams. Suggestion it can become an effective dream sign, which is of course an image or experience that triggers self awareness that you're dreaming. But I'm getting ahead of myself. So one of the challenges of this book was is to incorporate sort of modern lucid dreaming lore induction strategy and techniques with this older layering technique. This older, this older sort of ritualistic way of being Yes, so I see a question asking about consecration of a talisman. And I do recommend it in effect, that's in the book as well. There are recommended practices that you could use for any sacred object for cleansing number one, is very important. And then consecration which is really going a step further, imbuing it with a ritual purpose and calling on your, your powers your deities or spirits. You know, how you gain strength how you are tethered right to the cosmos. That is the consecration ritual. And when I mail my own talismans out, I don't consecrate them for people or anything like that, because that would make me a bad sorcerer. So I recommend people do it themselves. So this next section in the book is called what is lucid dreaming and this I think, might be old hat to but I'm going to read it. Lucid dreaming is the art of becoming aware that you're dreaming. When you realize, hey, this is a dream. You have an active and unique opportunity to make choices to interact with the dream content with purpose and with clarity. Lucid dreaming is one of the most amazing experiences I've ever known to look around and know that everything is part of an imaginal landscape that is mind blowing. Especially because it feels more real than waking life. Right and that's the lucidity effect. Right? It is that sort of vibrancy that comes when you realize you're dreaming it sort of ripples outwards. The colors are more bright and sensations have an extra power to them. Perceptions clear Joy rushes through so strongly that your feet lift off the ground and it gets dreamy or when you realize that the other dream figures want to talk to you and show you well they show you what you're ready to see. They can be friendly and other times they test your boundaries and the limits of your courage. Occasionally, they'll let you in on a secret or two that can remind you that the dream world is not at all what it seems. I'm speaking so vaguely here because lucid dreaming is really what you make of it. lucidity is really an extension of dream work in general, building those bridges between worlds, honing in on your passions, your concerns and providing a self arena for growth. And there's really no one way to lucid dream either. After all people around the globe had been using lucid dreaming for 1000s of years for all kinds of culturally defined purposes, right including shamanic healing, communication with plants and animals, finding answers to dilemmas and solutions to problems exploring the mythic realm for self knowledge and dissolving the self on a path to enlightenment. So the value of lucid dreaming really lies in its variability. Let me stop there because it's more than that. Sort of like I was talking about with this with this idea that there's in the history books, probably many more examples of dream amulets that are unrecognized. I think in the ethnography. We also there's much more examples of lucid dreaming that aren't recognized as such because the anthropologists didn't know what they were looking at. They didn't understand what folks were saying and communicating to them. And also from many indigenous perspectives. The concept of being self aware in the dream is not so novel, because it's more common, because they are in this worldview, that values, visions that values the imagination, that values connectivity, to the natural world. And so it's really lucid dreaming is really an an ethnocentric perspective, because it assumes that that we're fractured, and that we're don't know what dreaming is when we're dreaming, and that we don't think dreams have meaning. And so all of those are presuppositions that allowed the definition of lucid dreaming to even emerge, right? So if we lived in a culture where we were dream sharing every morning, and in our elders were asking us about, you know, powerful places and our dreams and who visited us. We would be developing these skills and not everybody because there's so personal variability here. But it would be in the water. And so it's like for lucid dreaming to emerge. It just it has to almost like a erupt outward. Like out you know, like a, like an iceberg out of the ocean. Where it's just it's just I think it's diffused in everywhere in many indigenous cultures. And I'd say in in the history of our peoples in the history of humanity. So we have kind of a cool opportunity here, as we go about learning lucid dreaming for ourselves. And of course, I hope you know, talking to others about it and reminding them and trying to build this dreaming culture that that we're sort of waking everybody up to larger realities. So I've seen
a couple of comments here.
It'd be great if a talisman helps identify and work with shadows. That's an interesting comment. Yeah, yeah. And so, some amulets served the purpose of the defense against shadows, right, but this is something different to to engage with shadow. So perhaps shadow work could be done in I think, a carefully controlled environment where you had essentially some protections in place some boundaries in place and the placement of talismans and amulets and the removal of them can probably provide that kind of shadow work, right. So if we are protecting certain doorways but not others, we can funnel psychic energy. This is this is the the way that mental objects work, you know, and sort of that, that, that logic. So yeah, that's very interesting. I'm also seeing a question Do you know if the ancient Greeks or the Romans use talisman in their dream temples for scrappiest you know, if the ancient Egyptians used talisman, so I don't know about the townsmen used in a Greek, ancient Greek setting like so Hellenistic Greece, temples of Asclepius being the cultivars clypeus I just don't know. I don't know. And you know, who would know would be Sarah Jane's who is been doing a really lot of excellent work these days on dreamwork and ancient peoples. She just has a book that came out as well and I would recommend check it out. Sarah Jane's is her Jane last name is James with a with a s. And did the ancient Egyptians use talisman and I think that they did but I also I don't I don't I'm not sure and I couldn't talk about it. But I do think that the ancient Egyptians had so many sacred sleep practices. I would be shocked that they weren't using ritual objects as part of that sort of their setup as they go into their sacred their sacred sleep. Rituals. Babylonians as well. I think that yeah, there's a lot of crossover. I think Mesopotamia also had a lot of crossover and this ancient knowledge was passed on. Yeah, fun stuff. This is really fun stuff. And again, I'm not an expert. I have stuff but it gets you it gets you thinking in realizing how much of it is hidden in plain sight, right? Like how much do we not understand?
So I'm gonna continue reading here. Lucid Dream has transformed my life. And I can say that without hesitation. It's difficult to imagine who I would be today without these experiences that allowed me to meet myself and my patterns, my habitual patterns, as well as sources of wisdom much older than my waking personality. As a teen, my earliest lucid dreams helped me face and dissolve nightmares, as well as experiment with that avalanche of sexual energy that appeared out of nowhere. Later my lucid dreams were philosophical tests of reality, and still later portals to ancestral knowledge, spiritual downloads and psychological healing. In one of my earlier lucid dreams, this was the dream. I explained to a dream figure that this was all a dream and that I dug my hand into the concrete at my feet to prove it. At first, the concrete was hard and gritty, and my fingers got scraped up like they would in real life. The pain was very realistic. And then the ground yielded and I was able to scoop out the concrete like soft sand underneath about four inches of concrete with a dark glenties substance that was revealed. The rocks fell into the void underneath and they d materialized. I realized that the illusion of this dream world was just a few inches thick and that underneath was something completely unknown. I widened to the hole in the earth and I jumped in, dissolving into a spacious void, where I no longer had a dream body. And that was my first journey of many into spaces beyond the ordinary dream, and this is probably not going to render very well but it's a depiction of a painting that I made about 20 years ago trying to depict this glinting void this cosmic snow as I called it, that exists beyond the materiality of dream forming. And I bet some of y'all have seen it, too. We all have sort of our own individual. I mean, I don't know a style or flavor to what happens when, when dreams de materialize. If we can hang on in that dark space. You know, this is where we get these hypnagogic images. This is where we get you know, these sacred geometries come through, voices come through. And if we keep hanging on and just with grace, and trust in the unknown, the dream re materializes in. For me that particular practice actually is very profound and one that I developed that was the subject of my master's thesis on lucid dreaming. In which I did that very protocol, in which I would sink through a wall or a floor. D materialize the dream body. Rest in the void. See what comes. And with a meditative, I would say, a meditative perspective and I was using the Western meditation of phenomenology which is usually described as a qualitative measurement in a narrative tool, but it's also a philosophical premise about noticing your biases, your thoughts, and letting them go it's a Western form. of meditation. And so, by practicing that, what I discovered for myself is is that when the dream re materialized, I would be brought into a number of spaces, a number of places and some of them were repetitive. I would often go into a childlike body, for instance, not necessarily reliving something, but they were settings of my child like home from when I was a boy. And I do have at least one occurrence I think of a of a found a memory and I don't have the prop so I'll maybe I'll bring it next week. But it was I just realized this a week ago, that I think that sort of recovered memory. And then other times, I would go into natural spaces. And so we've been talking about flying of forests or being inside of caves or sort of drifting above snow, sort of ancestral places, ancestral landscapes. And then a big another subset of those particular experiences. I ended up in false awakenings right and so dreams in which I thought I had woken up but then it turned out that it was all the joke was on me and I was still dreaming. And those were just repetitive until I finally we'd like to shake myself up and awake out of those. So that turned out to be a very profound perspective. It was the void the glint T void, that that interesting cosmic snow that kind of got that whole journey started.
Has anyone here ever experienced that the cosmic snow or the void or some people call it the matrix?
Watch for it. Because it's there. And at least in that dream that I had, the dream was only three inches four inches deep. So it's just under the surface sometimes.
So I'm going to, this is good, we're good. We're heading towards the top of the hour and we're right where I want to be. So I'm going to read the next chapter which is called a ritual. And this is an important chapter for the book. This is the chapter that tries to bring together why we need a new perspective or an old perspective on lucid dreaming. So despite the snake oil pitch that lucid dreaming is all about controlling your dreams. The real value of lucid dreaming is to interact with the Deep Mind. Otherwise, we would just close our eyes. We'd have a fantasy daydream, done. But that's not really what we want. Lucid Dreaming at its best invites something dynamic, unknown, possibly ecstatic. With greater consciousness, the dreamer can dance with the dream. Gaze into the bright eyes of mystery and move with new power in a mythic world. So let's agree to use a simple definition for lucid dreaming, a dream in which the dreamer knows this is a dream. I don't talk a lot about dream control in this book. It's not a big part of my life. I'm more interested in choice. I'm more interested in meeting the dream where it stands. Now controlled aspects of lucid dreaming do come in handy though. Don't get me wrong, especially when calling the dream for fun when setting the stage. Indeed, when viewed from a practical perspective, lucid dreaming induction can be seen as a controlled ritual used in order to stir up the unconscious mind and its visionary effects. Now, by ritual I mean an act or series of acts regularly repeated in a set or precise manner according to a social custom. throwing the book at y'all that's what ritual means. Right? And so when you start noticing what is a ritual you realize that we do this all throughout our lives. In almost every social setting and aspect of our lives rituals are just right there. So reframing lucid dreaming as a ritual complex is the hidden structure behind our forgotten lower. It's the key of getting the most out of the lucid talisman in any dream amulet. The ritual aspects of lucid dreaming can be seen in every step of the process, and I would argue that they're inseparable from the culture of lucid dreaming to begin with the daily practices that bring on lucid dreams, known as induction, right, they're a modern take on the ancient skill of dream incubation. The term comes from the Latin in Cuba era, which means to lie down upon, or as he would say, today, just sleep on it. Dream incubation is about calling dreams. It's about asking for guidance for clarity. Anthropologists, Charles Loughlin has noted that while dream incubation is largely a lost art, many people have participated in dream rituals without knowing it. When they're attempting to have a lucid dream. In fact, lucid dreaming can be thought of as a specific form of dream incubation in which we are not looking for a dream message. But a specific form of dream thinking, being aware of being aware. This is metacognition, right. So we're seeking a specific way of being a specific way of thinking rather than I'm looking for healing or I want to know see a deceased loved one, right. Those are that's content. We're incubating process we're incubating. Now, returning the mirror. So ritual drivers of lucidity. In its weakest form dream incubation can be represented by a wish for a certain kind of dream while lying down before sleep. So this is the idea behind auto suggestion, which is one of the first lucid dreaming techniques that was popularized in the 1970s by lucid pioneer Patricia Garfield. She recently passed away by the way, if you haven't read pathway to ecstasy, the way of the dream and dolla if you can find a copy. It's a very powerful book that is out of print if but I have seen copies on Amazon. I've seen copies on a VHS books and pals. It's a remarkable book and it's shocking actually how much of what she wrote is been repeated in deluded throughout the last like 3040 50 years that she was coming about through her own meditation practices or on mindfulness, as well. As her own, I would say, erotic sensibilities, her embodied consciousness, she really had a way of dreaming that was really his that is really exciting, frankly, and she would, you know, experiment with orgasm and experiment. With sensuality and with all of these things within the safe place of a dream in for her, you know, it was Tantra. It was it was it was spiritual. It was a metaphor for union with the cosmos. Really lovely stuff. So, in stronger variations, common ritual drivers can include affirmations said throughout the day, meditation, prayer, fasting, seclusion, drumming, the ingestion of a tonic or pill or smoked herbs. Sounds familiar, right? These are the new tactics posted on lucid dreaming forums. But all these techniques have been used for millennia across the world in many cultures to ignite altered states of consciousness. We know now neurologically that lucid dreaming is associated with increased activation of the frontal and the parietal lobes. It brings waking like awareness during dreaming. It's a state of consciousness that comes with intense emotions, vivid imagery, and a deep access to long term memory. In this way, lucid dreaming is a bridge between the imagination of the dream state and the focus and intentional thinking that comes with being awake. However, the emphasis on Waking like consciousness and sleep such as applying reason, testing memory skills, signaling to scientists in the lab, all this is a modern preoccupation. Anthropologist Michael Winckelmann has called lucid dreaming a shamanic state of consciousness because it quote integrates the potentials of dreaming and waking consciousness. He calls this the integrative mode of consciousness. It invites the classic markers of visionary awareness that we see in other altered states. These These things include abstract geometric, geometric imagery, encounters with animal human hybrids, right or Ferrier toffs emotional catharsis ecstasy and experiences with white light and non duality. So, that does not mean that every lucid dreaming is a shaman. But it sets up lucid dreaming as a vital bridge into the visionary worlds that we have been long explored for the aims of shamanism around the world. Largely healing, uncovering uncanny information and looking for power looking for personal insight. So this bridge, this transfer of knowledge can go both ways. It's not just about bringing waking life levels of self awareness into the dream, but bringing the imaginal realm back into the waking world. And that's the true potential of lucid dreaming not the ability to change the dream, but our allowance to be changed perhaps to be transformed. That was a lot, right? But um, what I love about Michael Winkleman is work is that he pulls in lucid dreaming and says Look how similar this is to other altered states that we've studied a lot from a psychological perspective from an anthropological perspective from a neurological perspective. And those things that we see in lucid dreams, especially that long term meditators see and those folks who have lucid dreams that last say, you know, like over a minute long, some things begin to happen. Like there's certain archetypes that begin to emerge and this is what he's talking about this, this abstract imagery, and these, these guardian figures, these these, these and these half human half animals, you know, the same thing is that we see on cave walls and Paleolithic caves in Europe. The imagery is, is strikingly parallel.
And so it makes me wonder, like, is lucid dreaming, you know, were were the Paleolithic. Cave artists. Lucid dreaming or is lucid dreaming just one more way to access that route, that spirit realm perhaps, in there's many paths to this, there's many different paths to view this kind of imagery in so Winckelmann would say that there's different ways of triggering the brain of creating this this integral. Integrative state of consciousness and lucid dreaming is one of them. It is a shamanic state of consciousness. And so what makes it shamanic in another sense is this emotionality piece right? Like and I think that folks who are into lucid dreaming, but not interested in dreams, I missed this part of the conversation a lot because dreams are superduper emotional. Dreams are largely negative, right? Almost three to one. Negative emotions are positive. They're visceral, they're messy, they're existential. They're full of angst. The creepy rhetoric is go on and on about all these like nuanced words that can describe sort of the flavor of dreams. And a lot of folks who kind of come into lucid dreaming through pop culture, are interested in love and light and maybe sex and you know, and that's about it. And yet what happens is is when we dip into these realms, were dipping into the shallow end of a very deep shamanic pool. Whether or not we're aware of that, that's what's happening. And so sometimes we get more than we bargained for. And so that is the another aspect of ritual that I think forms kind of a protective layer to allow us to enter these realms in a way that's respectful. And
I would say
What's another word for that? I guess? Sustainable? Yeah, sustainable safe, right. So it's the top of the hour now and I'm going to pause for a break in what's coming up for y'all. Shoot some some text we can have, we can even have an open conversation at this point. And I think that's where I'll stop for tonight because there is one more section but I can get to that next time. We did pretty good. We got to page 11. So we're more or less moving along. I'm seeing a comment that someone read the book Dream messenger by Patricia Garfield. I haven't actually read that one. It's interesting. She her more. her other work. I think it's called the Universal dream key where she talks about the most common dream themes of the world and she did a lot of research into that but she also as a as a clinical psychologist, bring us you know a psychological perspective to that. And it's they're really kind of fun, fun reads. And so for lucid dreaming that she talked about in the 70s. I don't think.
So I am, I'm just going to have some a little bit of awkward pausing here for the introverts in the space.
Nope. We have a live question. Let me get you unmuted you
all right, how you doing?
Great. That's a great talk. I mean seriously, I love it. Um, you know, I've read, I don't know, maybe a few 100 books on Eastern religions, you know, all kinds of topics. But in my early 20s, I started reading the eight books written by Carlos Castaneda. So are you familiar with him? Yes. And I mean, some of the stuff is when put in the right cultural context is very, very, very much like what you're saying and you know, I personally believe that Carlos Castaneda was not writing about a real person John one betas. I you know, it was like the names have been changed to protect the innocent. And, you know, because I've read reviews that said there's contradictions in his books and stuff like that, but I think he did that purposely. So people wouldn't be running down to Mexico looking for this guy. But especially on his book on dreaming, and he talks extensively, like you know how to induce lucid dreams, what to do with them, and many experiences that you've talked about. What's your
take on this? Yeah, great. Thanks for that. So I have not picked up those books in probably 20 years. But I know the the debate that still happens in anthropological circles about just what you're saying, was he for real? I mean, he. Clearly, people have basically decided that Don Juan did not exist in at least not by that name. He might have been a combination of one or two fingers. Right. That's what I think that Carlos had access to from an ethnographic perspective. He clearly is tapping into some real wisdom.
And so if that's what it's sort of,
maybe the most important thing is is that when you read especially now, like I said, it's been a long time, but the first two books in particular, they have a character to them. That seems like a transmission. It seems like it is embodied knowledge coming out of a cultural tradition. And then it kind of gets increasingly weirder. Luminous eggs and things like this. It gets it gets pretty bizarre. But But this practical piece right of, of, he's the one who said I think it's the second book about looking at your hands as a way of learning how to lucid dreaming because essentially using your hands as a talisman as a as a object as a refight object and say, when you ever you see your hands to ask, Am I dreaming? Right and so that's a reality check. This is Paul Foley's critical state check that he independently came up with, as well in Germany in the 1950s it's the what Stephen LaBerge picked up. Stephen LaBerge, of course, also reading Dongwon in esslyn circles in the 1970s picking it up from the Tibetan traditions as well and his the influence that came through Wrestlin 1970s spirituality in the California movement. Don Juan Carlos Castaneda in the hands was right there even Robert Wagner y'all. Y'all seen Robert Wagner I hope you've read his book. It's such a, you know, powerful book. He says that he first learned how to lucid dream by using the hands method from Carlos Castaneda. And so it's like, it's one of these things that okay, maybe we don't know where it came from. But there's some knowledge here then he you know, it seems to be real. So. Yeah, so, you know, sometimes we have to separate the art from the artists. There's other things we could say about Castaneda, but what's not right, but thanks for that comment. You know, it's um, and I think that what he did also, let me just end with this is that he was part of a movement that helped, I'd say Ignite and interest in shamanic cultures at a time when people were open to it. And so we've got the East Meets West thing happening but we've also got this, these indigenous movements that are gaining traction, and at the same time, Western culture, got white culture that is taking, taking some of the stuff out of context. There's all kinds of tensions here. Enter about what's happening. With sacred knowledge and how it's being used. Who owns it. Where does stuff come from, you know, even around like say the the, the tension around the the Native American Dream Catcher which detention actually is pretty cut and dry there, which is don't buy plastic dream catchers in the gas station. That's just it. If you're gonna use a dream catcher, get one that's made from an authentic Native American artist because they make them for Westerners. They make them for non natives. As a gift it it came out of the visual tradition it came you know, and it now it's it's pan, Indian or pan Native American, but it is a gift. But it's it supports native arts when we buy it from folks. But it doesn't when we when we buy the plastic ones in the gas station. So right and so there's there's the lines of cultural appropriation and stuff that can happen but Right, yeah, cool thing. Thank you, whoever posted the image of of the sorcerer here. That's from Lesko, right. That's from the cave. paleolithic cave. It's like 40 45,000 years old. And you've got the bird shaman who is like, half bird half human. He's got a very visible erect phallus. He's sort of falling backwards some people say that this is the is this that this person was in a dream state because in a REM sleep, there's often endorsement of the genitals right you know, for for everyone. And more obvious for some than others. And so this is perhaps on the cave wall. as that of course. This also happens in other kinds of vision and trance states as well. So I don't know where to say, but very cool. I'm also seeing a question Have any of your townsmen induced dreams that have been premonitions or pre cognitive dreams? Wow, good question. I. I don't know. I don't know. No one's told me any that I know of, that I can think of right now. And none have been from mine that I know of. But sometimes, I guess with pre cognitive dreams, it's a waiting game.
So hard to say. We have another live question and there was a couple more above the Image two, but let me get your muted here.
I mean, I wouldn't be me. I will be he'll. Okay. Um, I find this synchronicity quite amazing. I have yet to actually have any kind of stable lucid dream, though. I've been practicing trying to attain for a few months only. My whole life. I've had very vivid dreams. Last night. I dreamt I don't know what I dreamt about. It was your foggy, and there was no narrative to it. But I woke up at 3am and I heard the word in my head and the word was not one. I had no idea what this word meant. Until I looked it up. And it's from Meso America and it's the now who was are the shamans who are part animal, part men. So I dreamt about this. Well, I didn't dream about it. I forgot about it. When I saw it, I Googled it. I went, oh man. Amazing. I have a deep connection to owls, but I personally did not Shapeshifter at all but to have that dream and then be in this in this situation made your I find quite amazing. So I just want her to say
thank you. That's amazing. That's that's that's that's powerful. Let's see who there is a dreamer or an author. I'd like to connect you with Sergio Magana. I believe they he is based in Mexico City. And he wrote a book a book called the Toltec secret the art of lucid dreaming. He comes out of traditions that are I think contextualized next to the Naga I'm not sure if that's part of the of his tradition, but he has a lot of, of Central American Mexican, indigenous lucid dreaming practices. And so if you're feeling like this, you know this call, I would check out his work because it's authentic. What's the name again? Sorry, I'm going to type it in. It's pronounced mispronouncing his name. It's much magani I think. Okay.
The Toltec
secret anyway, right? That's right. That's right. All right. Thank you. Super. Thank you very much. Yeah, you're welcome. I have an idea for if y'all want to do a super easy, Houseman, you know, homework assignment. I have a printout that I can send you a link for. If you give me a second. I'll put it into the chat. And it's just a piece of paper, where you can write or draw your intention for the night could be to have a lucid dream could be to have some specific kind of dream context. So you know, Dream content, healing dream or, or what have you. And what you do is you fold it up and you put it beneath your pillow. And so it's super simple. And it's effective. It's really powerful and it works. And so, I'm going to see if I can find this link and I'm going to
send it to you because I'd love to hear
if y'all can report back what happened or if you tried it
Alright, let me test it here first to make sure that I'm not sending you on it. All right. Yeah, it worked great. So this is a download link. And so when you click it, it's going to it should download a PDF. It's a PDF. So it's it's just one page. It's printable, there's no color. It's shouldn't even take up much ink. That is the printable dream amulet. So that's my invitation to you. No worries if you don't do it, but if you're feeling the energy printed out what can you reify what can you actualize? By writing this down on a piece of paper and putting it under your pillow and I would say do it for more than one night. We have this attitude in the West that dreams and lucid dreaming should happen like this. And dreams are not dogs. They are cats right dreams don't come when called necessarily unless it's in their best interest. So just be patient and see what happens in give it a few days and see what comes
Did you see the question about the bracelets in the void. It was right above the
Oh yes. Thank you. Yes, thank you. So I don't have bracelets but it's a wonderful idea. And I've been thinking about wanting to do that. Yeah, it's a great idea. Thank you for that. And also seeing a comment about it. Someone who had a dream, tried to pull a brick wall apart in another one try to meditate. In both cases I went into a void state. What do you think that void is? Right. So what is the void? And so, so we're sort of the Western, you know, hat on those sort of research hat. There is no neurological you know, micro study of this image list lucid dreaming that I know of that has successfully shown anything that's different from dreaming in so it looks like dreaming as far as we can tell, but no one's really focused in a kind of like a neuro phenomenological kind of way, like really highlighting these experiences, although they have happened in lab settings before. And I think that there's a bunch of different stuff going on and it's not all quote unquote, the same place. And so it's not necessarily for instance, a non dual space. Just because you don't have a dream body doesn't mean that you're in a non dual space. You can still be very much in a sort of dualistic mind with a very robust sense of self in an ordinary sense. And things can be happening in the space that feel like not me, right and so, so, other folks, though, have had non dual experiences emerge from these void settings. And one of them would be February Bulldogs Iran, who is a dream researcher out of California. She's a painter, and a teacher. She was one of my mentors. In grad school, she calls it hyperspace lucid dreaming and so hyperspace is starts off in the void. And then things accelerate things move rapidly in you enter a tunnel or a vortex and it's very spacey right there's lots of it's like stars and geometry and and for her and she is a Buddhist practitioner of many years. She moves into non dual spaces in these experiences. And so I think that there's a variety of things that are going on in in the void if we can even call it that. They might be just a collection of you know, what Ken Wilber would say a pile of unknowns. It's not a mystery. It's a pile of unknowns. It could be different things going on. I don't know. But I do think it's an opportunity if you can get there and see what happens. Right. And I think that's part of it is just like what happens right and so if you're in a lucid dream, this is a really fun thing to try. You know, try to go through a mirror or into sink into a wall or through the floor. And notice how the dream body disperses or doesn't, because it might not
notice what happens. And in
notice the sensations notice your expectations right and expect notice and expectations and lucid dreams is such an interesting thing. Because expectations can can create realities, but not always, not always. Sometimes our neurotic thoughts are slower than the dream architecture and the dream architecture has something has something else in mind. And so there's kind of like a good enough attitude about well, I'm going to sit here in the state of
patience and grace and waiting to see what emerges.
And it's good enough and yeah, see what happens. I'd love more people to try this. By for instance, the fact that I went into kept going back into early childhood bodies like is that no just my own peculiar personality or was this something that happens a lot, but we don't we don't have that yet. We don't have that kind of
information. You have
seen a question? Or what are the best ways to energize or charge an amulet or talisman for lucid dreaming so yeah, so I mentioned this in the book, but it's kind of late in the book. So I'll just verbally say that what you
want to do is cleanse it
and cleanse it either with water or with salt or with smoke. Those are sort of the three classic ways of cleansing a ritual
object or all three. You could do them up.
You want to cleanse cleanse the object that removes the traces, the energetic traces of everyone, before you. Probably charging it then is about adding prayer or intention. And it's really about your own. What works for you. And so, what has worked for people in the past and in more ritualistic settings is essentially having a prayer having a ritual moving through a movement and then also resting the object near other powerful objects. Also, resting the object at powerful times, right so full moon, set your object outside or in the windowsill to let it soak in kind of like folks do making Moon water right. You can do that with your dream objects. You can have it sit next to your your other stones. So they are imbued with those properties that you resonate with and that you're aware of. So it really has to do with your own sensibilities and your own, you know, particular genius and things that you pay attention to, perhaps his herbs, what herbs are allies for your magical object,
how can how do they complement
each other? Right? So yeah, so create a ritual and I would recommend that you do it before sleep. And and then you use your talisman by having it near you stating your intentions for sleep. Have it near your journal. When you wake up in the middle of the night, have it nearby. And so what happens is it creates this wonderful surround it just kind of like you notice it. You notice it even when you're in that liminal state of self awareness, where you're not sure you're awake or asleep. You'll feel your ritual object first. It shows up first. That's how you know that it's real, that it's working in that
in that state of mind. And then when you're not using it, put it away, cover it up, let it recharge.
And so that's just I would say really basic cleanliness for for using virtual objects. Now someone's saying today is the new moon. Thank you for that. Thank you very much. Yeah, so I think that we're probably at the end of our time together. What do you say let's say should we should we close it down? That sounds good to me. You've got
fun in it. We'll keep going.
Andrew always does this thing at the end of our book studies and everybody unmutes and says goodbye. So let me do that for everybody. There we go. Hello. Goodbye. Bye. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you
