Hey welcome back to cubicle to CEO, the podcast where we ask cessful entrepreneurs the business questions you can't google. I'm your host, Ellen Yin. And this week on the pod, we kicked off a brand new mini series called retirement for entrepreneurs. We're showcasing how entrepreneurs from various industries and business models are utilizing different investment vehicles to plan and fund their retirement. And on this topic of conversation about investing, I thought it would be interesting to also look at investment from the standpoint of not just using money to compound money, but how we're investing to grow ourselves as leaders, as entrepreneurs as people.
So I actually posed this question to my community a while back, I asked them to weigh in on their experience being in masterminds and whether they found paid masterminds more valuable, or free peer led masterminds more valuable. And about 20 people answered, it was quite interesting to hear their responses in terms of why I'll quickly just share the high level data. So you know, what we're working with, like I mentioned 20, people answered 14, so the majority of people shared that they preferred paid masterminds, five people voted for both. And then there was one person who actually advocated for peer led unpaid masterminds. So I collected some of the best responses from the people who had weighed in. And I'll be sharing some of their thoughts with you here today, as well as sharing my own thoughts and experiences in participating in both types of masterminds, both paid and unpaid, and sharing how my view on investing in myself has changed a little bit in this current season of business that I am in.
So we'll start with the data from the community, and then we'll go to my own thoughts on this. So first, let's talk about the people who said paid like I said, this was the majority group. And there were a couple couple, you know, key responses around why they believe that free masterminds or unpaid masterminds don't work. And I would say the consensus for most of these individuals is that there's that lack of follow through or long term sustainability with 100 masterminds. So for example, Natasha with @shinewithNatasha said, "I have been in two well intentioned peer led masterminds that were unpaid, and they both fell off after the excitement wore off, it was hard to have any buy in and be incentivized to show up." Tiffany, from @theTiffanyCoyle, said "when it is peer-led or unpaid and life gets busy. Your focus and priorities go to your family, your job and anything you've invested in."
Her response really stood out to me because I find that to be very true. You know, when push comes to shove, and you have limited capacity, you're typically going to prioritize the things that you've paid for over the ones that you haven't, right. We know this to be true. Even in our everyday adult lives, or if your parents with your kids, right, like if you sign someone up for a free, I don't know, a free volleyball camp. Versus if you're paying, let's say for ballet class. And let's say your your child only has the ability to go to one or the other in a period of time, most likely you're going to be taking them to the paid ballet classes and not the free volleyball camp. And I think it's that age old adage that when you pay you pay attention, right when there's skin in the game, people are more likely to show up. So I tend to find Tiffany statement. Very true.
Now, Erica from @EricaPowellandCO said "I have tried both and I have personally found that peer led masterminds are best for people who want friendship and emotional connection. But every peer led mastermind that I've been in, has fizzled out within several months." So very similar to the sentiment that Natasha @shinewithNatasha shared and then Erica continues. "I'm intentional about my mentors, and I choose someone who is perfect for the season or year I'm in I find someone who has knowledge and has cultivated skills and strengths. I don't yet have I invest and I do the work to get results." I picked her response here because I wanted to highlight what Erica has said about it's not just about making the investment and showing up and being part of a mastermind, but what you get out of it is really what you put it in, right. So I invest and I do the work to get results. So it's both right. It's not just oh, if I'm here and I'm present, all these amazing things are going to come my way you actually have to take action on the things that you may be learning from the mastermind or may be exposed to from the mastermind. So I thought that was important to include.
By the way, I want to also give the disclaimer here I realized, as we're talking about this topic that it could be, it could be construed that this may lead to an eventual discussion of like, Oh, I'm opening my own mastermind come apply. That is not the case for this episode, just in case you're wondering, I've actually never hosted my own mastermind paid or unpaid. So I am not planning to do that anytime in the near future. I think if I were to ever host my own mastermind, it would not be a year long container or six month container, but rather like one weekend retreat, or something very time specific, where I'm just bringing together a group of people on a specific topic. I actually kind of alluded to this in my income report, I believe, because some people have asked me before, like, Would you ever host a mastermind, I would love to be part of yours. And I said, you know, if, if I were to do one, it would just be like a two day thing about one specific topic. And the topic that's most relevant or that I've been getting the most requests on are how to structure high end partnerships, how to structure high end brand partnerships. And that is something I'm interested in, but not not for 2023. I don't believe so. Anyways, all this to say no mastermind to apply for not going to sell you anything at the end of this episode. I just thought I should preface this conversation.
So I'm coming at this from a very objective standpoint, I just I think it's really healthy to have these kinds of conversations because it's a polarizing topic, right. And I think it's important to see both sides of why people believe what they believe. Okay. So anyways, those are the main reasons shared for why the people who voted for paid masterminds didn't believe that free or unpaid masterminds were as valuable. Now, they're, like I said, there was one lone duck who actually preferred unpaid masterminds. So I want to shout out Vonda @thelistcoach on Instagram. And Vonda said, and I love that she brought in context to this fun to said, "when you are beginning your business, the value of pure lead, helps create some foundational relationships, processes and competence, then, as you scale up, it's helpful for your masterminds to scale up too." I really liked that she brought context in the equation because it's so true that you know, when, when you're especially when you're new to the industry, to the online business space, specifically, it's easy to look around and see everybody in a mastermind think I have to immediately jump into one or else I'm not going to be successful. But Vonda I love how she is sharing, you know, when you're at the beginning, relationships are always important to your business. But especially at the beginning, when you're really trying to get your business off the ground. Just having some sort of camaraderie is going to make it more likely that you're going to stick with this new process, right. And sometimes, when your resources are a bit strapped at the beginning of your business, it might make more sense for you to participate in a peer led mastermind that allows you to form those friendships and relationships. And then like Vonda said, as your resources scale, and you have more money, or capital, at your availability that you can deploy to reinvest in your business, then perhaps spending on a paid mastermind at that moment makes sense. So I thought that was a great perspective that she brought to the table and I wanted to share that.
Now going back to the 14. The majority that preferred paid, the big question is why right. Also, an important layer to this, I think, is to understand the people that aren't participating in paid masterminds? What are they paying for these masterminds? And what have been their results? So I did a quick scan of all of the answers. And what I found is the answers in terms of how much people are paying for masterminds. And these are typically year long containers by the way, we found that their answers ranged between $2500 to $60,000 a year on the higher end. So as you can see paid masterminds really run the gamut in terms of how much you can expect to invest.
I will also share that the paid masterminds that I have been involved in. I think my first one was $1,000 a month and I paid that monthly. This was back in 2019. And then my other paid mastermind that I participated in a few years ago. If I remember correctly, I want to say it was either 12,000 or 15,000. I honestly can't remember the exact number. I do know the difference is that the second time I paid it all up front in one lump sum because it gave me extra savings like a couple $1,000 in extra savings. And I had built up pretty healthy cash reserves at that point, because I was a couple years into my business versus in 2019 When I joined the other one. I was only about I think a year and a few months into my business so I was in a different place right now. So it made more sense for me to just pay upfront with the second mastermind that I was part of. But like I said, I'll get to my own personal experience later in this conversation. I just wanted to give you that context, though, of what people are paying anywhere between 2500 to $60,000 a year.
And I know there are masterminds that probably cost less than that. 2500 I think 2500 a year, or even for six months is quite on the low end. For most paid masterminds, I would say most paid masterminds are at least $5,000 for a six month experience, or like $2,000 for a one year experience, I would like just from my own personal experience, I have found that to be true. And then again, there are also masterminds that are well beyond $60,000 A year I've seen masterminds that charge, you know, $100,000 a year or more. And so, I mean, there's a lot of nuance here. But I think it's helpful to have that piece of information. And granted, this is a small sample size, right? 20 people answered, and only 14 of them said they preferred paid. And of those 14, all 14 shared exactly what they paid. But I just think having some sort of data around this is helpful.
And then the average returns that I could glean from people's comments where people were seeing anywhere from two times a return on investment to 10 times a return on investment for their paid mastermind. So I thought that was quite interesting as well, personally in business, if I invest in something and get a 2x ROI, I'm pretty pleased with that, right? Like at the stage of the business that I'm in now, that would be a solid investment. For me, I think the earlier on in my business, I actually would want to see higher returns because it's just disproportional Right. Like, if you're only making let's say, $500 a month, at the beginning of your business, then even at 10x ROI in absolute value is $5,000 a month, right? Which is amazing. That's like a full time income. But let's say you're making $100,000 a month to expect the same 10x ROI, which would lead you to $1 million a month is just not as realistic, right, because it's just much more of an exponential jump. So I think at the beginning, when you're making less, it's a little bit more realistic to expect those much higher returns. Whereas the more advanced your business becomes. And the higher up you scale. It's it's harder, right to make those huge leaps from let's say, 1 million to 10 million, versus from $100 to $1,000. I hope that's clear.
Anyways, so outside of how much they're paying and what they're recouping, like, what are people saying about paid masterminds? Why do they prefer them? So Joyy @JoyyMichelle, "I find there is such a benefit in the clear structure and roles that developed from a paid program. But I also just believe bigger results come when putting your money into something." So that kind of echoes what we've already talked about this idea of having skin in the game. Then Haley @hayleyluckadoo said "I found that typically it works out better for me to invest in someone who has hit those goals, and who has a history of bringing together groups of people that are a good fit with each other." So she's referencing because I just took a snippet of what she shared in the response. She's referencing, that when she's looking at what masterminds to invest in, she's wanting to find one led by a person who has achieved the goals that she's wanting to achieve. So someone who's a little further ahead in the journey than she is. And then she continues this thought with quote, "for example, if my goal is to hit half a million dollars in revenue, I want to join a mastermind with someone who's beyond that and has a history of creating spaces with people who are close to that number, not just a group of 100k revenue businesses getting together with a similar goal, but no real structure plan for how to hit it."
And I get what Haley is saying here. I mean, it's this concept of if you're in a peer led mastermind with people all at the same level, as you who have never done the thing that you are all collectively trying to do. It's a little bit more difficult than, you know, being part of a group led by someone who has the benefit of hindsight, right, the benefit of having already walked the path and understanding what can accelerate your results and what pitfalls to avoid. So I see the point that Haley's making there. And then Erin @ErinHurleyMD shared quote, "to get the most out of any mastermind, I found it crucial to not only learn from the organizer of the paid masterminds, but to find the critical individuals in that group who would help me get the most growth and whom I could help with what they are working on. Over the past five years, I have collected a group of 20 to 30 individuals I know and trust, who have helped me immensely".
I really love this comment and wanted to pull it out. Because I think it's so key what Aaron is saying that the true benefit of a mastermind, I mean, it's literally in the name right mastermind. It's like all of these brilliant minds in our brains coming together and sharing ideas. So you become like a Megamind, or a mastermind, right. And I think people often forget that like, sometimes I think masterminds have a habit of falling more into the scope of a group coaching program, where you know, all the mastermind peers are kind of just learning from the facilitator. And they're treating it more like a group coaching program, and not really leaning much on each other in terms of learning each other's expertise. But in a true mastermind, the value comes not only from the organizer of the mastermind, but from the other individuals who are in it with you. Because theoretically, these individuals should be at a similar place and business to you and have also value to add to the group, right? Even if it's different than the value that the facilitator or organizer is bringing to the table per se.
So I love that Erin is placing a focus on leaning on the individuals in these groups that she's been a part of. And I just love that she says over the past five years, I've collected a group of 20 to 30 individuals who have helped me immensely. And I can relate to this sentiment of every group program, or mastermind or thing that I've been in. It is kind of like a collection of people that you bring into your life, and you choose which relationships you sustain beyond the walls of a paid container, and who you continue to have in your life that comes with you on this on this business building journey. And you'll hear a little bit of that when I share my own experience and Masterminds in just a moment.
Alright, so we've talked about people who prefer paid people who prefer unpaid and then we have the camp of people who believe and both these were five individuals, by the way, who voted for both. One of them is Sigrun of @SigrunCom And she shared "would I be where I am today through only the self led masterminds? Absolutely not I needed to meet new people and be surrounded by more people at an above my level to grow. Would I be where I am today, if I only had joined paid masterminds, probably, but I would be lonelier. So for me both have worked." I really love this perspective, right? Basically, with the self led mastermind, maybe the business growth would not have happened on the same timeline, or to the same magnitude that I did, because she was part of a paid mastermind, right, the access to the resources and the learning and the relationships really helped accelerate those results.
However, she is recognizing that the unpaid masterminds, the free masterminds really helped develop some deeper relationships that were not tied to, oh, I'm only showing up because I paid for this right, it was like a choice to continue to show up because it's it's not rooted in any sort of money obligations. So she's recognizing that even if she had only done paid masterminds and had achieved the same success, it wouldn't have been as fulfilling because the same level of relationships would not have been there. So I thought that was a really unique perspective. Then Kara @KC_creativeLLC. She's also for both. So Kara said, "I'm currently active in a free peer led local group, and it's great for holding me accountable. Last year, I did a paid group with multiple people in the same industry. This group is what really helped launch my social media management company into a full agency. I went from losing money on some clients because I didn't know how to properly price my services to restructuring my price is learning how to get clients to commit to longer contracts and hiring the right people at the right pay."
Kara's feedback here really mirrors my own experience in that if you are building your business, it is really helpful to join a group of people not only at a similar income level, but who are in the same industry as you or selling similar services. Because it really helps you get much more tactical, in terms of solving problems that you all uniquely share and have experienced, right, you can swap resources a lot easier when it's comparing apples to apples instead of apples to oranges. So I think, of course, that there's immense value and looking outside of your industry for wisdom and inspiration and creativity. But as far as like the things like building processes, right. Some of the things the fundamental things that Kara was mentioning here like contract negotiations and price structures and hiring people to fulfill on services, it's going to be much easier to replicate what's already working for someone who has the same business model as you than to, you know, recreate from scratch when you're talking to people who don't understand necessarily the type of business you have, or the service or product you're selling. So I thought again, another excellent point to think about when you're considering where you should invest your time and money.
And then finally, last quote, before I dive into my own stuff my own take Dailey @MizDailey, said, "I have found that unpaid peer masterminds offer a different depth with regards to friendship, accountability and human connection. I think this may be because the unpaid mastermind that actually survives past a year has done so due to a certain chemistry with people involved. Without money to anchor one's place, participants choose their level of emotional investment and quickly identify the worth and value of the space." I thought this so beautifully summed up and tied back into what we shared at the beginning, when @shinewithNatasha and @theTiffanyCoyle and @EricaPowellandCO when all three of them share that their main concern around unpaid or peer led masterminds is that that lack of longevity, right where there's a lot of excitement at the beginning. And then it quickly fizzles out. And Dailey, who believes in the power of both containers paid and unpaid is sharing here that specifically with pure lead unpaid masterminds that last beyond a year, so those who actually do get through that initial hurdle of, you know, excitement, and then and then don't fizzle out and actually do continue to meet up for longer than a year.
Those are truly truly powerful groups, because those are people who have, again committed to each other not because of monetary obligation, not because they paid into it and are saying, Okay, I better make use of this investment that I've paid for, but rather, they have some sort of deep emotional connection or attachment to one another, that keeps them coming back, even though they don't have that monetary obligation. And I think that is so true and so powerful. And I've seen that in my own life, which brings me to my own experiences in masterminds.
So for a little bit of context, because, you know, I love context. I've said that word probably like 10 times now, just in today's episode, but for me, I have participated in two paid masterminds. And three, you could say maybe four I'll explain in just a second, but I would say three unpaid peer led masterminds. So the two that I paid for were the social clique led by Rachel Pedersen, and the shine mastermind led by Julie Solomon. And then the three unpaid ones I've done one group, we call ourselves the Traveling Blazers.
If you've been in our community for a while, you may have seen me do different events with them. Last summer in Oregon, they all flew in and we did an in person Cubicle to CEO presented live event featuring the traveling blazers, which was so much fun. So that one in the summer was called Let's get visible. At the beginning of 2023. We did let's get intentional, which was a virtual online event that we all lead together. So the traveling blazers, the group of women that are part of that group, it's me and for others, Tiffany, Renee, Dana and Elise and those four ladies actually, I met through the paid shine mastermind with Julie. So we met in that original paid container and then chose to continue our friendship and our mastermind relationship beyond that paid container once our year with shine ended. And we all participated in shine and 2021. It's now midway through 2023. So for all of 2022 and half of 2023 we have continued this peer led mastermind ourselves.
And then my other two peer led masterminds I've had kind of more of an informal one with two friends, Tessa and Laura since 2019. So I met them really early on in my entrepreneurial journey and we've seen each other through a lot of life and business changes a lot of life and business changes like several babies pregnancies for Laura and you know, Tessa just going through all these different changes from real estate to these amazing companies that she's now invested in or or grown. And then for myself, you know, I'm getting married, and I've changed my business model several times. So lots of exciting things that have happened between the three of us and we're not as formal about meeting like with the traveling blazers, for example. We meet every single month, and we have a standing calendar date that we typically will keep on our calendars with Tess and Laura it's kind of more of a you know, we check in on an as needed basis, and that can be very frequent and sometimes very infrequent at times, but it works for us. I feel like ours is a little bit more of like a personal journey kind of mastermind.
And then the last unpaid peer led mastermind and part of is actually a recent one that I just joined. And this one is media specific. So Jasmine Garnsworthy who we recently had on the podcast. If you haven't listened to her episode, I'll drop it in the in the show notes below. It's really great. Jasmine shares, three AI tools every business owner should be using and how to actually use them in a way that isn't super complicated like isn't this huge, steep learning curve. So anyways, great episode. But Jasmine actually gathered together a group of incredible women who all run media businesses or media like tangential to media businesses. And we had our first meetup, I think a week or two ago, and it was incredible, like, I'm just, that was a ray where I was so in awe of the women that I was around, I almost couldn't believe that it wasn't a paid mastermind, just the caliber of some of these businesses. And especially with myself being new to the media industry, or the space of being a media operator, I was just so grateful to be able to be there and learn from these women who have built incredible media businesses. So I'm really excited about that one, because I think that one, I'm going to be able to really dig deeper into some of the tactical things.
Whereas with some of my other peer led masterminds, we're focused sometimes more on like mindset things, or leadership development, or team building, which are all super important things that bring a lot of value to my life. But it looks different than again, like when you're in an industry specific group, you can really swap a lot more resources in terms of like, these are the exact processes that I use, or like, This is who I would hire for what reason or how I'm spending in terms of ads, you know, it's just again, Apples to Apples versus apples to oranges. So I have a lot of high hopes for that one. And we'll see as time moves on, I'd be happy to report back the experience that I've had with that one, but I think the group of women are incredible.
And then I said like three and a half, like three unpaid but kind of three and a half. And the reason I say that is because last December, I believe I had the honor of being invited to a beach mastermind it was like a kind of a weekend thing. So not a year long container, not an ongoing thing. But it was this time specific meetup at Veronica Romney's beach house who again, Veronica is another amazing podcast guest. So I'll drop Veronica's episode in the show notes as well. But we met up at her beach house in North Carolina. And it was a small group of us. I knew about half the women, the other half were new, I had never met them. And it was just so much fun. Like we talked about all different things in our business, we did a lot of hot seats, and each presented something that we were you know, challenged by and everyone weighed in from their unique skill sets and perspectives and experiences to help each other out. So it was a really empowering experience and just really wonderful, generous, good hearted humans. And we have a Voxer channel that we have continued to stay in touch with each other. No regular meetups, no virtual zooms that we're putting on our calendar. But again, just kind of that open channel to check in as needed to run an idea by to celebrate a launch with you know, all these things. And so that's why I say like three and a half. It's kind of like a half mastermind.
I think that things that I really want you to take away from my own experiences with masterminds is that it's really important to clearly define your goal or your purpose for joining a mastermind, whether paid or unpaid, before you do it, because otherwise it's just going to lead to confusion and ultimately disappointment. And I share this because my goals for each paid mastermind that I participated in, were completely different, because I was at a different stage in my business for each of them. Right. So in 2019, when I was part of the social clique with Rachel Pedersen, I joined that mastermind because at the time, I was still running a boutique agency I was offering done for you marketing services primarily. And I wanted to learn from some of the best digital marketers in the industry, how they were acquiring clients and what their retainers look like and how they were hiring team members to help them with managing different accounts. And so I was really looking for more of that tactical industry specific information. And Rachel's mastermind was completely comprised of digital marketers and social media managers. So it was like a perfect fit for what I needed in that season. Now, did I develop awesome friendships from that some who I still keep in touch with? Yeah, absolutely. Right. And that has been such a beautiful gift and blessing from that experience. But that wasn't the main reason that I joined that particular masterminds. So I was very clear going in like, this is what I want to get out of this, to make this a worthwhile investment of my time and energy and money.
Now, the opposite was actually true for joining Shine with Julie. At that point in my business, it was 2021. And I was not necessarily looking to, like, get any specific strategy or tactic or whatever it may be from that group. But rather, I was really looking to plug into deep relationships like that was my goal for investing in that mastermind is I wanted to expose myself to new people outside of my direct industry. And that's what I loved about the mastermind that Julie put together is, you know, all the different women had different businesses, some had blog, businesses, some had in person studio, some people were in digital marketing, some, you know, we're like photographers, and just all sorts of things. And so, it was really interesting to meet women from all walks of life, and all types of backgrounds and skill sets and just develop those deeper relationships. Which, ultimately, was what I got out of that mastermind with, you know, the traveling Blazers with these four women who have become really close friends of mine who are coming to my wedding in August, you know, that level of friendship.
And so, clearly, identifying your priority outcome ensures that you're not going to be disappointed by whichever experience or mastermind you invest in. And it will also help you find the best fit for yourself, because you can ask those types of clarifying questions both to the facilitator and to past alumni who have come through those masterminds asking them right, like, what was the best thing that you got out of this experience? Or can you share, like how you help foster relationships between your mastermind cohort? And let's say you want to learn more strategy specific things like what types of strategies or topics are we going to cover? And can you share any case studies related to how other mastermind participants have been able to achieve those outcomes in the past? So you can tailor the questions that you're using to interview and scope out different mastermind opportunities by getting clear first on what you're wanting to ultimately achieve from being part of them? Right.
So, as you can see, my initial kind of history with masterminds is that I participated in a paid one every other year. So in 2019, with the social click, and then in 2021, with shine, and I was planning to keep up that kind of routine. So I had like pure lead masterminds scattered throughout, right, that's kind of more of a continuous thing. But for paid masterminds, I was going to be really intentional and invest in one every other year. But as you can see, in 2023, I have not or I chose not to invest in a long term paid mastermind. And the reason that I broke that rule this year, is I have been choosing instead, for this particular season in my business, to invest in topic specific retreats, events, or sessions, even like virtual sessions, rather than long term containers. The reason being is I realized what I loved most about the paid masterminds that I was part of, in the past, were the in person experiences those times when we got together as a group in person and got to truly mastermind together right. And, for most masterminds, this isn't true of all, but for most masterminds, it's not atypical for mastermind groups to get together at least once a year, usually two or even three times a year in person. So most of the masterminds that I know of, you know, you have regular virtual meetings, but you know, one to three times a year you're getting together in person. And those in person experiences were what I truly got the most out of in every single container that I've been part of.
So now, I kind of just extracted like my favorite part of paid masterminds, the in person experiences, and I choose to invest there. I use that as my paid opportunities, right is I'm choosing what rooms I want to get into what events I want to be at what retreats I want to be at to really learn about something specific. For example, I recorded a bonus episode recently, about a personal wellness retreat that I chose to invest in. I went to Laguna Beach for Carmen Ohlings permission slip retreat. I'll link that episode in the show notes if you want to hear about the three life changing lessons that I took away from that retreat. Another example of how I've been investing lately is I paid for a marketing team, VIP intensive, which was a two day virtual event with Veronica Romney of Rainmaker Residency who I already referenced like she was the person I went to the beach house in North Carolina with her beach house. And she was also on the podcast. But Veronica is a brilliant leadership development person who specializes in nurturing your Rainmaker or your primary essential like your marketing director. But it's so much more than that, like, I'm not going to do a justice explaining it. So you'll just have to listen to her episode on the podcast, to get a clearer sense of of the work that she does. But she was hosting this marketing team VIP intensive, that I really wanted to, to bring my team to. And it was such a unique opportunity. Because this was something that wasn't just for me, it wasn't just me participating, I got to bring my entire marketing team and have them participate and really understand and define each other's roles more clearly, that was kind of the whole point of this intensive was to really understand how we could as Veronica calls that play team Tetris, and help shed some of the things from each of our roles, that was actually holding the business back, and then how to rearrange those things, to play to each other's strengths. So that was a really awesome, again, specific outcome type of retreat or event that I was investing in.
And then most recently, I invested in a YouTube VIP gameplan session, this one I haven't actually completed at the time of this recording. So I don't have any, you know, initial feedback here yet. But YouTube is YouTube growth particularly is one of our big three goals that I shared at the beginning of the year. I know I keep referencing all these episodes, that was another bonus episode I shared at the beginning of the year, I shared a company's big three goals. One of them is to achieve monetization status on YouTube, which requires 1000 subscribers, we're really really close. If you're listening to this and you haven't subbed to our YouTube channel yet, all of our guests interview podcasts on Mondays, those are all full length video recordings. So if you're someone who engages better by watching video than audio, we would love for you to hop over to our YouTube channel, just search cubicle to CEO and it will take you straight to our channel, subscribe there. But anyways, to become monetizable you have to have 1000 subscribers and 4000 watch hours in a given year window. And so we are hiring someone to help us really understand how we can leverage you to shorts to help fuel that goal. So again, very specific write very specific outcome. I'm investing in these paid experiences with a clear understanding of what I'm hoping to leave that experience with. So that clarity is so key.
And my final wrapping thoughts right on this whole conversation, should you invest in a mastermind. I personally will vouch for the fact that relationships have 100% got me the furthest in my business, more than any tip or hack or strategy that I've learned relationships have been the foundation of my growth in business. And I really believe that the variety of groups that I get to pop into as a result of investing in these different experiences has introduced me to so many people that have become key players in our success. And so any chance you get to put yourself in a room, whether virtually or in person with people that you want to meet that you want to learn from, I think is an amazing opportunity and well worth every single dollar. But whether or not you should invest in a paid mastermind today, and more importantly, how much you spend. I think that's again, a very nuanced question, right? Or answer. It's a gray area, there's no black or white answer to this.
I think investing in yourself and your continuing education is crucial at any level that I am a staunch believer in. I don't care if you're making a total of $1,000 a year or if you're making a total of $10 million a year. I believe at every level, you will never regret investing in your own growth. However, whether or not a mastermind is the right container for that growth and development, I think depends on your goals and your capacity and your season of life to actually take action. Because I think that masterminds this is just my personal opinion, but I think masterminds require more self starting. It requires more of your own ability to show up and do the thing. Then let's say if you invested in a one on one coaching mentorship, or relationship where someone is literally checking in with you and you alone and holding you accountable to your goals. So depends on your capacity to actually show up and do the thing. It depends on the facilitator. It depends on the peers that the facilitator rings together because that curation process is also a skill set in and of itself and can make a huge difference in the experience that you have. It also depends on your learning style. Right?
Typically, masterminds are not as structured and curriculum as let's say, an online course, or even a group coaching program, it's a little bit more, take what serves you leave the rest. And it can require a higher level of discernment on your part to kind of wade through all the various topics and strategies and ideas and relationships and guest educators that are thrown your way and to really discern what is most applicable to me right now. And that may suit your learning style. And it may not.
I personally, would be very hesitant to spend more than, say, 20% of my gross revenue on a mastermind, or really any form of business development that kind of falls under the same umbrella without risking sustainability elsewhere. Right. And that may not be true for every business. But for me, I typically don't want to sacrifice in key areas like marketing and sales or labor in favor of investing in a mastermind. So we generally at the point in our business today, aim for spending about 5% of our gross revenue a year on business development. And that's actually still a significant amount in actual dollar terms. Like when you're looking at 5%, you're like, oh, that's nothing but typically for the the revenue that we're making, that's 10s of 1000s of dollars that we've allocated every single year, to spend on our continuing education, my personal development or team development. So we make it a priority in our business. But that 5% really allows us to continue to also play aggressively in the areas that dry for the business, like marketing and sales, like labor costs, you know, our team payroll, contractors, professional guidance, and advisement, et cetera.
So these are all factors that you should consider when you're thinking about whether or not to pay for a mastermind and how much, but I really hope that today's conversation, both my input, as well as all of these amazing perspectives that these people so generously shared, will also link all the contributors, Instagram handles below. So thank you, if you are someone who, who shared your thoughts, thank you for allowing me to quote you. I just want to let you know that no matter what you decide, realize that for every season of your business, your your needs may change and your requirements may change. So allow yourself that flexibility to explore, see what serves you well and what doesn't and you can adjust from there, right? It's not like, Oh, if I don't invest in a mastermind this year, I can never invest in one and vice versa. If I invest in a mastermind this year, I have to invest in one every single year. Just give yourself that permission and that flexibility to try different paths and see what serves you best. All right, that's what I'm going to end on. Thank you for tuning in to another bonus episode. I will catch you next week cheering for you always friend.
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