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DefendingDemocracyNobelPrize2024 | Otter.ai

DefendingDemocracyNobelPrize2024

Spencer Graves32min

Speaker 1

00:00

We're going to begin with a session called defending democracy. And as Anna said, that will feature Maria ReSSA. And Alexandra Medvedchuk. To start it, Maria ReSSA is going to give a brief talk. So as you know, Maria is 2021, Nobel Peace laureate. And please welcome her now.

Speaker 2

00:33

Of course, I have to take a photo of you. So thank you so much. And I'm going to warn you, I'm running on an hour sleep. So I'm going to talk really fast. I will try to keep the time so I my question to everyone today is where do you find hope, right? We live in a world on fire. This is my 38th year as a journalist, and I've never lived through anything like it today. You will hear a lot more from Alexandra. Let me quickly go through right what, and you'll see this from my eyes. But you have heard the macro. We have half the world voting this year, in November, in December 2021. I actually talked about an atom bomb blowing up in our information ecosystem, and warned about 2024. Here we are. Everyone talks about AI. But AI is 70 years old, right? It's not that new. But what is new is computing power. And you will hear this from Deep Mind from the meese will be on a panel later on that increased computing power has given it increased power. But right now, generative AI may or artificial, General, generative AI may be more speculative than useful, very narrow uses are incredible. But let me go through the two buckets that we've had right? Social media, which we've lived with for a long time, and I'll show you what has happened to me first, bottom up social media attacks. If you are a woman or you are marginalized in the real world, you're further marginalized online on social media. Oh, yeah, Facebook went down today. You do know that right? Matter went down. So the first is social media. None of those problems have really been addressed. Although every company will tell you they have the second generative AI rolled out in November 2022. This thing of opportunity to unpredictable rewards to quick repeatability. That's the way they design casinos to keep you on slot machines. It is also the way social media is designed, right? It is in the design to addict you mild addiction, because the goal is to keep a scrolling. And what has the what has happened in May last year, the US turn Surgeon General actually said that all of the problems for our use, right? Decreased attention spans increased levels of sleeplessness of suicide of eating disorders, so many more, and he ended with this epidemic of loneliness. There's more. I won't inundate you with all the bad stuff right away. But, you know, tribalism. We're living through it again. We've always had it. But it's never been as powerful as it is today. And it was really pushed by one algorithm chosen by these platforms, all of them, use the friends of friends to grow. Meaning in my country when Rodrigo Duterte became president, right? We were still pretty much in the center. But in 2016, if you were pro detector, you moved further right? If you were anti detector, you move further left 2017 2018 2019 and the radicalization went with recommendation engine, right? Daxing if these words are new Daxing dogpiling. bullying, harassment, gendered disinformation, I just ran off a stage with Hillary Clinton, on my way to Brussels, where we were talking about how the attacks on women are the first signs of the retreat of democracy. And then of course, you've already heard the the power shift in 2024. Do you have agency to vote for the person you want? When we know that up to 85% of who you vote for is not dependent on what you think? It's how you feel. Here's another part Right, you saw the first social media AI the second generative AI, they both made the same mistake. We didn't learn a lesson because in social media, it wasn't anchored on facts. In fact, in 2018, mit said that lies spread six times faster. That's 2018. And then, now that Twitter is Elon Musk, and it's called X, and he's fired, the trust and safety teams, is July's only spreads six times faster. In Manila, in the Philippines. If you lace it with fear, anger, hate, it spreads even faster, that leads to the tribalism. This is what I've lived through. And I'll quickly take you through it. This is the network that attacked journalists, women first that attacked opposition politicians, women first, that attacked activist women first. That's kind of fun. These are the types of attacks that I got. And I was receiving 90 hate messages per hour, things like this, you know, their memes. The way I look the way I sound. I have dry skin, eczema. So you can see they doctored the photos to make it look worse. It didn't. Well, yeah, then this sorry. It was sent to me by my mom, you know, the kind of dehumanization that we have is a prelude to violence as well, because online violence doesn't stay online. And you know, they called me scrotum face, they took it forward. That's both PHS a Facebook page. And you can see again, what they did, right 1000 cuts as the PBS film, you learn to develop a thick skin. But we got to keep going there scrotum face, you see. All right now I just want to take you to I'm not alone. Every woman in the public sphere has to this is a UNESCO report from 2022 global trends in online violence. But 73% This is an international center for journalists report, have experienced online abuse 25% of those received threats of physical violence and 20% of those led to real world violence. Now I want to just quickly show you what's generative AI doing. You know, I keep getting attacked with these things. But I kind of like it in a weird way. Because you get data. This we just published on Sunday, a Russian scam network took generative AI audio, and then spliced it on an old video. The an interview I did with Stephen Colbert in 2022. They spread it on Facebook and they took out ads on Bing. Take a look. Today I want to share one of my big secrets. What helped me to become a successful person is to quickly jump into new opportunities without any hesitation. And right now my number one source of income is a new automated cryptocurrency trading program. This is the biggest opportunity I've seen in my entire life to make a big Fortune quickly. You can invest 14,500 Philippine pesos and earn from 120,000 monthly without much labor. I urge everyone to check this out before the banks shut down this platform. Did you did you know that crypto is up. It's hot at its highest point today. Right? So there's that but it came from this just I just want you to hear the original never seen before. But the scissors went bottom up social media lies. A fact, you know becomes a lie or a lie said a million times becomes a fact. Oh, right. Okay. Well, so crypto is now at its highest point. We're still we're gonna come out with a second investigative in that report, you will see we trace the IP addresses. We took a look at the M one ad network A Russian scam network, things that were used for advertising that are now used for Information Operations. What were they what did they put in place on the website that I was going to be arrested again? Right. So is it is it commerce or is it politics? Or is it both? We're gonna find out? So what we did and I have negative Now, I will quickly close with this. I've given up on big tech.

Speaker 2

09:48

Because I've had many years of this and because of that I was facing a century in jail, right? My company was clobbered. We spent millions unlegal feeds. So we built our own a matrix protocol chat app for news organizations this year, and next year is not only democracy facing the cliff, it's an extinction event for digital news as well. So try, please, if you have iOS or Android, you have an unlimited leave with with this one point. And it is something that we raised in the Nobel Summit, it was at the Nobel Peace Center where we launched the 10 point action plan. On a big picture. This is actually what we're after, this is what you should be demanding. And you should be signing up on, we have to reclaim our rights, the first stop surveillance for profit. You never gave permission to be cloned, or to be manipulated demand your rights. Second, stop coded bias. If you are marginalized in the real world, you're further marginalized online. If you're in the Global South, we not only are getting tech from the north or from China, but we are also the ones cleaning it up. So you can use it. Third, the last journalism is an antidote to tyranny, because of one thing that will never change. Generative AI will never be able to tell you exactly what is happening in this room at this moment. At this time. Thank you.

Speaker 1

11:44

Take a seat. Then we can move you along. Thank you very much indeed, Maria, so much to talk about so little time. One thing is you said you've given up on tech, and then you you hope you call for these changes at the end? Who should people demand make the changes who actually can do this?

Speaker 2

12:05

Anyone who builds tech? Right? The reason why we built our own tech now is because I have waited for what like seven years, eight years for big tech, the people who had huge amounts of money to throw in to actually do what's right as a gatekeeper to the public sphere. But what I realized when I was designing our tech or matrix protocol chat app is that oh my lord, our CTO would always say Maria, personalize this, because that'll get more engagement. And I'll say, No, I want the public sphere. Right, you know, what they call a house where everyone has their own reality. It's called an insane asylum. We need a public sphere.

Speaker 1

13:02

You also mentioned that 85% of why people vote is because of the way they feel. So disinformation and manipulation are a very big threat to democracy. But another threat to democracy is straightforwardly that people are disengaged with the whole democratic system, they their lives are getting worse. It's not working for them. So how do you as a journalist, engage people who are essentially switching off from the mainstream? It's

Speaker 2

13:29

why I'm not sleeping. Literally, I think this is it. This moment is incredibly critical for all of us. I hope, you know, when you leave tonight that you will go and talk to your family and friends and act. How do I engage them as a journalist? The entire conference is about facts. But facts are really boring. And social media actually, when it was rolled out, it's funny, the internet did this. In 2009, there was a book called The Cult of the amateur, the cult of the amateur. We have scientists that you will hear from here. Will you find them boring? Will you find the facts boring? Yes, that's the answer. But what we try to do is to make you realize that when it matters, in order to make the right decision, we have to have a shared reality. And we need to have the facts. So as a journalist, I don't give up. I keep telling you, you're being manipulated, but it's been I feel like Cassandra and Sisyphus combined. But I still have hope. Because we must act. So yeah, just keep going.

Speaker 1

14:52

But it's also the fiction is important, the narrative of the facts that ties the facts together and making that palatable and attractive To such a big part,

Speaker 2

15:01

you know, that's what I've spent. Journalists have spent their lives, their careers, learning how to tell a good story to hold your attention. And actually, the last time we did this in DC in May, we talked about forum. We're beyond that with with the tech, the tech is so manipulative, that it literally hacks our biology, right. And the the incredibly bad part is, it is the worst of human nature, that we're, we're wading through toxic sludge, it incites the worst of human nature. So one of the things I do try to do is to remind you, I still believe in the good and I've seen some of the worst, some of the worst things in conflict situations. But human beings, humanity has always been inspirational, we have to remember that we have to have hope. I didn't really answer your question about you know, yes, it's a perfect storm, the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer. But why is that? Is capitalism? Here's their sure other problem, right? But we can't even begin to answer these questions. If we do not have a shared reality, if we do not have the facts. I think it's time to relook reinvent. And here's the most exciting part in all the nastiness I was saying. This is the time to create, we must create the world we want.

Speaker 1

16:32

Well said thank you. Now having two Nobel Peace Prizes in one session is an abundance of riches. But I want to bring, I want to bring Alexander Medvedchuk on if you'd move there. Please. Welcome.

Speaker 1

17:00

Welcome, thank you for joining us. Now you head the Center for civil liberties in Ukraine, founded in 2007, to promote human rights and democracy. And since the annexation of Crimea in 2014. And then the invasion in 2022, you've focused particularly on abuse of human rights in Russian occupied territories. It is, if you like the front line, perhaps in the in the threat to democracy. With so many threats all over the world? How would you see it tying in to this global effort to defend democracy?

Speaker 3

17:42

When we speak about 2022, it's a year when half of population in the earth will go to election. But only 8% of people are according their Freedom House reports. And I say the words only with some in sarcastic manner, leave in non free or partially free societies, which means that people who have real a possibility for free vote is a tiny minority. And the question is how it can happen. Because if 80% of people live in not free and partially free society, this means that we're losing freedom. And the problem is not just in fact that in certain countries, is a space for freedom is shrinking to the size of the prison cell. The problem is that even in well developed democracies, a forces putting into doubt the Universal Declaration of Human Rights again, wait. And there is a clear reason for it. Because those generations who survived the Second World War gang and current generations, they inherited democracy and human rights from their parents. They start to take freedom for granted. They they became a consumers of democratic systems. They start to look for freedom, like a possibility to make a choice between cheeses and supermarket. But the truth is that freedom is very fragile. We can't attend human rights once and forever. We every day make a choice.

Speaker 1

19:48

So what do you expect from people?

Speaker 3

19:56

I am a human rights lawyer and I have been applied is a law to defend people in human dignity for many years. But now I found myself in situation when the law doesn't work, because Russian troops, deliberately Shalin residential buildings, churches, hospitals, and museums. They're taking evacuation corridors. They torturing people infiltration camps. They forcibly taken Ukrainian children to Russia. Their ducting robbing, raping and killing civilians in the occupied territories. And the entire UN system of peace and security can't stop it. But I know from my own experience, that when you can't rely on the legal instruments, you can still rely on people, because people have a much greater impact that they can even imagine. And what I want to tell two people that this war is not just a war between two states, Russia and Ukraine. This is a war between two systems, authoritarianism, and democracy. And this war started not in February 2022. But in February 2014, when Ukraine obtained the chance for the democratic transition, after the authoritarian regime collapsed due to a Revolution of Dignity, and in order to stop us on this way Russia invaded. So with this war, Putin attempts not just to punish Ukrainians for our democratic choice. He also want to convince the entire world that freedom, democracy and human rights are fake values, because they couldn't protect you during the war. They wants to convene that country with a strong military potential and nuclear weapons can break international order can dictate its rules to entire international community, and even forcibly changed internationally recognized borders. And if Russia succeeds, it will encourage other authoritarian leaders in the world to do the same. And what do you want to tell that we are dealing with the formation of the whole authoritarian block, because I live in Kyiv. And my native city is constantly being shelled not just by Russian rockets, but also by Iranian drones. China helped Russia to import Western technology is critical to warfare. Syria voted for Russia in general assembly of UN, North Korea, sent to Russia more than million artillery shells. This is very different countries, but they have very common feature. All these regimes they captured power in this country have the same idea what a human being is, and they denied people in rights and freedoms. They see people like object of the control democracies in opposite they consider people their rights and freedom, the highest value, and there is no way to negotiate it, because only existence of free world will provide a threat to Autochartist because they can lost their power. This means that if you not be able to stop putting in Ukraine, he will go Filter. And this means that if authoritarian countries support each other democracies has to support each other even stronger. We know in very critical situation. Russia, prepared for a long protective war, and only officially 40% of Russian budget will be spent on military expenses. While military support to Ukraine in United States is blocked. Europe can't close the backdoor to bypass sanctions by Russia and Putin. Recently, in his public interview, repeat the genocidal claims that Ukrainians cannot exist. We need solidarity from democratic countries and from people who believe in democracy and freedom. And this solidarity has to be proactive. Like

Speaker 1

24:45

Thank you, I really want to make the most of this incredibly rare opportunity of having the two of you together. So Maria, please feel free to talk to Alexandra

Speaker 2

25:00

Okay, so I think the question I would ask first you is would you do what the Ukrainians are doing today to fight for democracy? Because that's the challenge we all face. Right? In Ukraine, you literally are, it's a person to person battle. How it's to it's been years how, how are you maintaining despite the odds.

Speaker 3

25:34

Frankly, speaking, it's very difficult to live during the large scale war, because every single bit you call normal, normal life is ruined in one moment. And you live in total. And certainly, you can't play not just your day, but your next several hours, you never know what will happen. And you live in constant fear for your beloved ones, because there is no safe place in Ukraine where you can hide from Russian rockets. But also, these dramatic times, provide people an opportunity to express the best in us to become the best version of what we are. To be courageous to fight for freedom, to make difficult but right choices and to help each other. Because when we help each other, when people literally risked their life to save others they never met before. In this exact moment, you have this failure? What does it mean to be a human?

Speaker 2

26:44

Every time I see her, she always makes me cry, right? Get started online in 2014. Right, the attacks and the meta narrative that was ceded to annex Crimea first in 2014. And then that same meta narrative was used by Putin to invade Ukraine itself. What Ukrainians were actually ringing the alarm on, on the information warfare that was happening, has it gotten better or worse?

Speaker 3

27:19

This we're having different dimensions, not just military, one, but also informational dimension. And this dimension is very important, because there are a lot of things which have no limitation and national borders. Freedom is such things, and information, it's such things. And now we see that not just in Ukraine, but here in this country, and other democratic countries. The battle is coin, the battle for hearts and minds of people there. And when you have a truth as the instruments is not provide you a huge like privilege, because, as you mentioned before, lies spread six times quicker. This means that we need ways of millions of people in the world to stand for truth. Because if we lose this battle, we will find ourselves in the world, which will be dangerous for everyone, without any exception. And whether we are brave enough to admit it or not, this war has already crossed the borders of European Union. I know it because people started to recognize that the war is going on when the bombs falling on their heads, but lies its first symptoms of the boss.

Speaker 1

28:56

The picture you have both painted is pretty black. We have just just under a minute each for me to ask you what gives you hope. Maria, can you go first?

Speaker 2

29:13

Cassandra and Sisyphus combined, right. So first, know that when you elect an autocrat, and the Philippines has gone through, electing Rodrigo Duterte. And then then our next six years after we elected Ferdinand Marcos, Jr. We were in hell. And now we're in Purgatory. So that's kind of a good thing, right? It can get better. But it takes six months to collapse institutions of democracy. And the Philippines was an example. And when these leaders are elected democratically, they don't stay in their countries. They are creating I mean, something we started calling kleptocracy Inc. You see the Philippines as one, were getting slightly better. And you see Ukraine as another where citizens are forced to fight for what they believe. This is not staying in our countries. This is also coming for you. So what well, but weight loss. I know we're still here, right?

Speaker 3

30:36

I know that not just in Ukraine, but in a lot of other countries like Iran, in Sudan, in Nicaragua. People are fighting for freedom and for democracy. And sometimes, their efforts seem have no sense because they face with enormous opposing power. But we Ukrainians know that we have to continue this fight, honestly, because the history of humankind convincingly proved that when you have no other instruments, even just your words, in your own position, it can make a significant difference. It's not a little and result, even unexpectedly, will be achieved. Every effort no matter where all drops in the ocean.

Speaker 2

31:41

hope hope comes with action. So you have to act.

Speaker 1

31:47

Maria, Alexandra, we'll see you again at the end of the program. Thank you both very much indeed.

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