EP339 How to Create a Benefits Ladder to Sell More This Year
6:04PM Feb 1, 2022
Speakers:
Tracy Matthews
Monika Sharma-Patnekar
Keywords:
jewelry
customer
people
buy
brand
benefits
business
product
feel
societal benefit
selling
desire
called
transformational
emotional
talking
wearing
piece
functional
speaking
You have to find who you really, really speaking to who that person really is, because they're never going to be just like you. So figure that out. I've had people change the brands completely because of this, like one guy to finally know what we're talking to what I said before about, you know, really, it's not just about what they're eating, reading or hanging where they're hanging out, it's really the desires.
Welcome to thrive by design, the podcast for ambitious, independent jewelry brands, looking to profit from their products, get ready to make more and sell more doing what you love, without spending every single waking minute doing it. Hey, and if you're a creative fashion or product based business, I want to welcome you to the show. I'll be dropping big tips on launching, growing and scaling your business. So you can spend more of your precious time using your creativity to make money. You ready? Alright, let's do this. Welcome to the Thrive by Design podcast. Hey there, it's Tracy Matthews, Chief Visionary Officer of Flourish and Thrive Academy. And I'm thrilled to be here today with a very special guest who's going to be talking about basically how to really dial in into the key motivators and the reasons that people buy your jewelry by dialing deep into the customer benefits ladder, which is a little bit different than what we most think I mean, raise your hand right now, if you're listening and you say, my dream customer or my dream client is just like me, or it's just like, whatever we make up this fantasy of who this person is without really understanding how you create desire for your brand. You know, I wrote a whole book about this. It's called The Desired Brand Effect and hopefully you picked it up on Amazon. You can also head on over to desiredbrandeffect.com and purchase the book right there. Anyway, the reason why I'm talking about this and sharing this with you specifically is because when you can really dial in the key motivators and the reasons why people buy jewelry from you and you understand how to be selling more on benefits as opposed to only features you will stand out in a saturated market with a timeless jewelry brand. All right, I wanted to do an introduction of Monika Sharma-Patnekar, she is an E commerce, business and brand mentor. She helps conscious product business owners understand how to communicate and connect with their real audience for predictable sales. I bring together 16 Or she brings together 16 years of experience across brand marketing and strategy. And she's worked with Fortune 500 companies and Google. She's Dutch by birth, Indian by heritage, and an absolute Chai addict and also the mom of two girls. We had such a fun conversation. I love this conversation so much that Monika is training our Momentum students as well. So let's dive in to today's episode. I'm really excited to have Monika Sharma-Patnekar on the show today, business with Monika took me a couple tries to save her last name because I am dyslexic. And I like to wish the letters around. Monika, thanks so much for being here.
Thank you for having me. I'm really excited.
Well, I'm excited to be here because we were on a virtual summit together. And we connected on social media. And we were in some clubhouse rooms a while back and all the things and we chatted a few weeks ago. And I just love what you had to say about identifying different reasons why people buy from you. And that's always my thing. I feel like people, they they when they're promoting their brand, they're talking a lot about features instead of
Yes. Instead of what feelings emotions Benefits Value, I can say I can go on on this topic forever. Yes, the first thing I always say is you're not selling a product, you're selling a lifestyle. You're selling a movement, you're selling the real feeling why people buy from you. That's what it's all about.
Just so exciting. So we were like jamming, I was running late to our little meeting for a second and we only spoke for like 15 or 20 minutes, but I'm like, I gotta get you on the podcast. You made it happen back then I'm like, I gotta get you talking to our Momentum students. So we're gonna do that too. So before we dive in and get in before I get ahead of myself, why don't you share a little bit about your journey?
Yeah, so Hi, I'm Monika. I'm from Amsterdam in the Netherlands. So across the whole ocean, Master's in Business over 16 years of experience in this space. I'm brand management, global marketing strategy consulting in the corporate sphere with Fortune 500 companies to working with Google with scale ups, tech, SAAS and digital agencies that work with E commerce businesses, to really focusing on conscious ecommerce businesses. They want to better communicate and connect with their audience with a real audience I say and for predictable sales. Yeah, that's in a nutshell.
That's it in a nutshell. And you know, we all want predictable sales and I think as we grow as business owners, our job is to always be refining our messaging, understanding our customers more, getting more into the nitty gritty of like, what really motivates them to buy from you. So why don't we start there? Like, where did where do we even start with this whole thing?
First of all, I mean, what you said is exactly that. And I feel like it's the steps that people nowadays sometimes really skip in a hurry to get online. But you start with your customer, it's really simple. Because if you don't know who you're speaking to, how are you going to sell your products, it's as simple as that. And when I say who you're speaking to, I can't emphasize this enough, it's your real audience, your real customers, who are you really speaking to us just see too many people still trying to make a customer persona from their imagination. So you're told to make a customer avatar, customer persona, your ideal client, whatever you call it. But then they'll start drawing and writing out on paper without actually speaking to people. So then you're chasing an ideal and ideal is something that exists in your imagination, it's not real. So I'm obviously going to have a hard time trying to find out those people in those customers. So it really starts about with really getting to know who your customer is. And it's as simple as actually picking up the phone and having chats with them. It beats anything else that you can do, and really getting them to know them on deeper levels. I always say you're not even solving a problem. You're fulfilling a desire, especially the lifestyle products, where we are, it's not like a technical thing you're solving. It's, you know, I didn't need those fourth pair of leggings yet I bought it right. So there is a desire that you're fulfilling into you need to get to know your customer on that level. Who are they? What do they really, really want with their needs. And once in their life, I don't care what they're watching on Netflix right now, what they're reading, what they're eating, when they're drinking, that's all great, maybe to start a conversation. It's all great for Facebook targeting, which is also getting harder with all the new privacy rules. But it's not what's going to drive them to action to your store and visit you and check out what you have to sell and then hopefully move to actually buying.
That's such a good point. And I love that you said desire because we spoke about this when we talk my books coming out called The Desired Brand Effect. And it's all about creating a brand that people want to buy from and how you actually stand out in that saturated market. Because there's so many other things. And the other thing that I want to draw on, it's like, yeah, who really needs more leggings, you know, like, I, you know, what ends up happening for me when I buy stuff, it's like, especially when it comes to like workout clothes. Obviously, this is a jewelry and like more handmade products podcast. Like, I find a brand I like like, in the beginning, it was Lululemon. And then it was another brand and now I'm stuck on this other brand. And it's like, when I find something I like, I just keep buying the same thing until I'm over it. And then next thing, right, so it's because I like the way they fit. They're comfortable, like I know it's gonna work.
Right? Absolutely. But I'm really curious if we would talk about this one, because I will say we actually bring people in on emotions. But we urge them to buy on facts. So what you said as you stick with them, because they fit well in everything, which is the facts, the logical reasons for why you actually started getting hooked on them why you started maybe checking them out. And even going to them is usually a feeling and emotion. And we are unable to voice that. There's actually a lot of research that has shown this is a Harvard professor has done this and said that 95% of customer purchases are subconscious. So we buy on feelings, and we're unable to voice what that is. So when you ask somebody they're not gonna want to tell you, they'll give you all the logical reasons. They're not lying. It's just hard to voice that right. I had the same with these headphones that I The amount of research I did, knowing actually already wanted it. But I just had to validate that choice because it's not the cheapest thing either either. Or the Beats are no, they're Bose Bose, like really good.
I comment them the first thing I said, Okay, so I'm going to tell you what got me in to buy the leggings. There, they were sold, they're sold at this company called Bandier that I love and I always talk a lot about Bandier or to my customers because I our to our students here who are technically our customers, but I tell that you know, I'm like follow brands that like actually get you to buy and understand what they're doing. And the reason why I buy all my fitness clothes primarily from them and another brand called carbon 38. So those are the E commerce webs. Yeah, they carry multiple brands on both of those is because they are focused on fashion forward workout clothes that actually are performance too. So they look good. They're not like these fuddy duddy, like Nike stuff, like I've never been drawn like Nike or Adidas. They're, like stylish and they're sexy, but also at the same time. They're functional. So my boobs aren't gonna fall out in the middle of the workout. Do you know what I mean? Like,
so you feel good
in them. Right? Exactly. Like it comes down to. Yep, yeah. All of it. Yep. So okay, so I really like where this is going already. Okay, so in our when we were chatting and in the pre interview stuff, which you talked about something called the customer benefit ladder, what is it? Why is it important?
So the customer benefit ladder, it's a tool, I use this a lot with my clients. And it actually links your product attributes, your product characteristics, features to your customers, desires and lifestyle. So and that's what's going to allow you to make that shift from being completely product focus features focus to really evoking emotions in your brand, I will help you also translate into all your messaging your content. So yes, it's a bit of a theoretical exercise, but then it becomes super practical to put it into everything else you do. And there are different levels to this. So when I talk benefits to people, most people will go like, let's if you take jewelry as an example, especially a lot of clients I've worked with people's always started with well, it's unique, it's one of a kind, it will help you easily take your outfit from day to night, or things like that. Those are very practical benefits. And that's what we call functional benefits. This is what your product does. So you have your features. And then this is what your product does. And this is the level most people I've seen stay on in all their communication. But this is just one level, there is so much more to it. So the next one, what you really want to tap into is what we call how does it actually make me feel? So all of this combined? How does it make me feel? That's what we call emotional benefits. You go a level higher and say, how does it change my life, which is transformational? And the top one, which is how does it therefore change and impact society, that's a societal benefit. So and again, research has shown that if you can show this value on multiple ways in these multiple levels, you tend to have more brand loyalty over a longer period of time as well. So I know,
I want to ask you I'm gonna stop you there. Go. And I want to you to complete your statement to you. But I just want to get this functional benefits, emotional benefits, what's the third one?
Transformational transformational benefits, and then societal, okay,
sorry, I want to recap that
No, and it absolutely starts all just remember, the base is always your customer, knowing your customer, the desire is the actual insight behind your customer, which has allowed you to, you know, create the kind of product features you've chosen. And then you move into this laddering up of benefits, I was actually just to give an example to make a little practical for people because otherwise it sounds very theoretical. But let's just take so I'll continue with the jewelry example. So we have say product features, say you have the one of a kind, unique can meet higher priced product. So a lot of people will, like we said it's it's very unique, obviously, it's one of a kind, you'll not get it anywhere else. And the quality is absolutely exceptional, because it's tends to be make a lot of people make it handmade. So this is kind of the stuff that people will start with, and then they will go into something, okay, and it helps you go into day into night. And you can use it with different outfits. So we're at the very practical level. But let's be honest, a lot of people say this, a lot of jewelry brands, different ones. So there's nothing really differentiating you here. So but then you need to go into the emotional levels. And it really depends, like I said, from who your customer really is. So brand rhinos and brands I've worked with a lot of people go into the confidence for example, you know, the jewelry piece really helps them feel more confident have wearing that big chunky piece that they're wearing. Transformational if you are a woman, professional woman with a career, it just makes me feel more confident going into work and grabbing that or nailing that next cut that interview if you are maybe a stay home mom you are you just feel like better about yourself in tackling the day and therefore your home life is obviously better. So that's why it's impacts your life and and societal as well. Happier women, right happier home, happier life, or more women in leadership positions depending on who your target audience is. And that's why I always say we also start with the customer as the base and then you ladder up. Because that affects the direction you go into. And this then goes into all of your different messaging, you can make a content plan and all these different levels, your messaging on your websites, or the ads you put out and you actually draw people in using that.
I love this. So I'm thinking I'm thinking like, you know, we're using this stay home mom, like the mom example, functional benefits. jewelry that you don't have to take off, right? Like it's something you could wear even in your sleep. Emotional benefit. I feel pretty when there's barf on my shirt from my infant. Exactly. Yes. Transformational benefit, like okay, like I'm doing a little bit more than just like rolling out of bed and not showering all day like I feel better about myself. And then the societal benefit is like you said it earlier but like I'm a better mom. I can show up better for my partner if I have one. And that the impact on that is like better functioning kids and society.
Absolutely fair. We just no good. Is anybody going to take this over? We should be.
I know. I thought we should do one more. There's a huge thing with like eco friendly jewelry right? So people are using like old materials, or in the fine jewelry world, like people repurpose, like diamonds and stuff like that, instead of right, buying newly mined diamonds, buy old mined diamonds, or secondhand diamonds that are in the market. So the functional benefit, where would you go there? Like, you know, we wouldn't start in the same place,
it would start roughly in the same place. I mean, but but I think that's what we need. Even on the functional level, you can start seeing what's really different in your jewelry. So you don't start seeing the same thing. So if you're saying, Okay, well, it's ethical, it's sustainable. For me, those are all again, product features, it's actually feature. But what does that really do? What What's the benefit of that to us as a person, that I'm wearing something which is obviously, you know, it's really, if it's pre loved, you know, for example, it's something that's been used before, it's, you know, like you said, recycled or anything, it is something that I know, is good, I'm wearing something which is good for the environment as well, and not impacting in a bad way. So those kinds of things you can combine with the uniqueness?
Yeah, the beautiful part, okay. And the emotional thing, like, especially for people who maybe let's say they're recycling a family heirloom or something like that, like they have a connection to, yeah, you know, to their grandma, or whoever it is, and it makes them feel good, connected, pretty, like all the confidence things, I feel like the transformational would be like, you know, I'm doing my part. I feel like these two might be together. And so maybe you can coach me through this, because the transformational to me would be like, Oh, I'm doing my part in society. And the societal benefit was like, we're reducing like, greenhouse emissions carbon, and like saving the environment.
Well, there are two directions you can go in, I think it depends, again, on your customer, why you need to speak to them. But for example, there's also a part that you can say, if you stick on the emotional side of things as well, there is about carrying on traditions, yeah, on a transformational level, you you're taking that forward, and you have something to pass on to your children, and therefore those traditions on a society level because I still think that on a societal societal level, yes, you're carrying on the sustainability and ethical aspect, people try to really bring that into their messaging. Whereas for me, it is look I'm carrying on traditions. And guess what, it's also ethically made and sustainable. And this for me, that comes down always to the functional aspects actually. And society on a societal it's still with bit on an emotional level from, like, you know, we're taking on traditions, family traditions, and we're making sure we can pass that on into generations and not lose them. That's the kind of level of messaging I want people to start thinking about.
So I told you this when we talked before, I love Indian culture. You have a lot of jewelry that's been passed down, but through generations of your family.
Well, yes, I did. But we had a robbery few years ago and I lost my all my wedding jewelry and that breaks my heart. But yeah, that's how emotional it is. My sister still has some my mom has kept a few safely. Bangles or something for me. But I had my mom's I actually wear my mom's wedding jewelry, my own wedding. And I don't have it anymore.
Maybe that's something I should have asked you now I suppose.
It's okay, I've grieved it. I've been through it.
Yeah, well, I've been robbed before. And a bunch of my jewelry was stolen from childhood. Like my childhood jewelry was stolen. Back when the economy crashed. Yeah, 2008 and nine, and I was devastated. And I felt like there was divine intervention, because there was one piece that did not get stolen, which was the one that are two pieces that did not get stolen because they were somewhere else. And I feel like you know the universe, like put them aside for me. So
that is the only job we still have all the gifts my children got because we give jewelry gold jewelry to kids when they're born as well. That didn't get stolen. So we have theirs.
Okay, good. That's awesome. Okay, now back to this conversation, because I want to go, what are some of the questions that we should start asking ourselves to, like, really dig in to this benefit letter?
Well, I mean, it's literally what I was saying. So how do you make your person feel? How do we get audience feel? And how you know, and how do you pick their life. But to do this, again, I'm going to go back to the customer. I mean, I know, I keep repeating this again and again, until it lands, but you have to do this exercise by actually speaking to your customers, don't try to invent it, in your mind. Then it's just a hypothesis. And there are four types of questions. I always say, to start with to ask your customers for different categories of questions. So obviously, demographics, you know, I call them the four Ds. So demographics, it's the factual information that you'll find out. And I think everybody knows that. But then the second D is desires. So really, what is going on in your customer's life? What's going on? Where are they at? Are they happy? What makes them happy? Or are there any struggles and if they're, how can they have more of those happy moments? And as you see, I'm not even going into your product over here yet. I'm just trying to get to know who your customers and what's going on in their life at the moment. And then we go into the Third D, which is Do, how do they behave within your category? So if we're talking about jewelry, what other products are they buying? Where are they finding those? And how do they feel about that? How do they even get the information? And then the last one is Delight, which is, so what do they think about your products your brand or other brands there may be buying? And how do they feel about them, and what really makes them happy in that experience of shopping with you. So the four Ds being Demographics, Desire, Do and Delight, so you want to ask questions in each of these categories. And this ensures you're covering the factual stuff, the actual, you know, life, what's going on? Who is your customer? And then within your category and your products, specifically,
I love it, the four Ds, the four Ds. So what is there? What else do we need to know to really like, go into this?
What else you need to know? So literally, if once you do this with your customers, then you work through the steps of the laddering? What I say. And I would also say combine it with one thing, which is called, which is your differentiation, what really makes you unique, because it's a combination together, what makes it unique, and your benefits together, which I always say answers the question, Why should I buy from you? And that's what you want to be able to tell your customer? Just remember that sentence always, why should I buy from you? That's what you want to be able to answer for your audience in whatever you're doing.
I love that. I love that. I think I shared this story with you too. But I'm going to share it again with our audience. You know, what are the most transformational selling workshops I ever went to was when years and years ago, when I went on QVC. To go sell my jewelry, I had to go through this extensive sales training. And Lisa, our head coach for our Momentum program actually had a massive business selling on QVC. They were doing like millions and millions of dollars a year selling on QVC. And she's the one who actually helped me get in there. She like, gave me the connection and all and all this stuff like 10-12 years ago, we had to go into the sales training, I already had a really successful business, like I've been doing this for a long time, I just gotten this big order from QVC. I've been selling to all these stores. And they're like, why do people buy jewelry from you guys? Like oh, cuz it's lightweight, handmade, like all this stuff? And I'm like, No. And then. And then they're like, Well, let's talk about the emotional reasons or like how it makes them feel kind of and I was like, I don't know, they feel they like it because I kept repeating the thing and lightweight, but I didn't quite get it until they started going into like, imagine someone like walking down the street wearing your earrings. What do they look like? How do they feel going on. And she's like, maybe flirty, maybe it's confident. And like all these things we started really diving in to the emotional level. And I think that like taking this a step further with your customer benefits ladder. It really does like get into the real reasons why people buy jewelry, because it creates a transformation for the person wearing it. Yeah, bigger impact.
Yeah. And what it also does is it shifts away from pure problem focus, because I think a lot of brands are always focusing on a problem, which I've seen that people struggle with, especially to get into the negative negativity, they're always trying to find out what his problem was, it doesn't always have to be that one of the brands, one of the jewelry brands I've worked with, it was such a positive, these people have been through a journey in their life. And now the jewelry was actually a keepsake. And kind of it was a way of capturing that moment in life that they were at, in the journey that had followed. So it wasn't about like a problem they were facing in life. And they needed to solve that. But this was about capturing who they were. And that jewelry was a piece piece of them, either for themselves or sometimes as a gift that they were giving to people.
Well, that's so true. I mean, think about how many people have you ever bought jewelry for yourself when you're on a vacation? Because you're like in the moment and you're like, yeah, oh my gosh, I want to get this. There have been many times when I bought stuff like from a street vendor. I'm like, I'm never gonna wear this that it reminds me of this place in time, you
know? Exactly. Exactly.
Funny. You know, that's happened to me several times. And as someone who designs commissioned pieces, like I work with a lot of people like they'll be in Sri Lanka, let's say going on their like, you know, Bucket List trip, or whatever it is. And they end up buying a bunch of gems there. And it like, I've designed some really beautiful pieces for several different customers from Sri Lanka and stuff like that. But I feel like a lot of people kind of when they're on their journey, they're exploring things for a different reason whether they're buying it in your local area or abroad, or it's a combination of them. Finding something that reminds them of that place in time that gets like repurposed or whatever. I think it's pretty awesome.
Yeah, I remember I just recently bought silver anklets for my cousin in New York, he got a baby girl, and I was hell bent on buying only silver anklets for her I looked up online where can I have it sent to the US from here. And it was because a it's a traditional we give jewelry when a child is born, but I'm the one who gave all my other niece in the family, I'm always give them silver anklets. And so I wanted to continue that tradition. And even though she's not here with us that they have something that connects them together. And that was the reasoning for me. So it was less about that actual piece of it was something about connecting everyone in the family, even though we're all at different places.
I love that. I love that. Is there anything else we need to know about this right now?
Oh, good. I can go on on this. Let me say. So one thing I'd like to emphasize is that you are not your own customer, the amount of people I speak to that say I am my own client. But why can I find more of me there should be more? Well, you're not because nobody's going to be exactly like you. So it is you can start with an idea that you have, and that is great. There's nothing wrong with that. But once you're really running the business, and you want to grow it and you want to move out of being just a hobby, you have to find who you're really, really speaking to who that person really is, because it's never going to be just like you. So figure that out. And I've seen, I've had people change their brands completely because of this, like one guy to finally know who I'm talking to what I said before about, you know, really, it's not just about what they're eating, reading or hanging, where they're hanging out. It's really the desires, that's something I really want to emphasize again, those other things are great for, like practical things like Facebook targeting, but to really drive people to action know those desires. And finally, what I said is that, you know, remember, you're bringing people in on emotions, and then you try, urge them to buy on facts. So it's not that you we need to forget about your features. Some people think, oh, so I don't need no, that's just as important. They feed into each other, they help each other it they validate choices, that the emotions are bringing people in those factual things about your product. And what really makes it is validates the choice for those people.
Awesome, awesome. Monica, working everyone find you.
So I'm on Instagram Business with Monica. And you can go to my website, that Business with Monica dot com. And I have a special download for everybody that they can follow the link which is on the four Ds that we talked about. So you'll have a simple checklist explaining what each is and in the box, what kind of information you need to be getting from your customer.
Awesome, amazing. And we'll have all those links in the show notes and everything so you can connect with Monica after the show. Thank you so much for being here today.
Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it.
Thank you so much for listening to the show today. Wasn't this amazing? We are thrilled. Monica has a download that she wants to share that she mentioned in the episode. So if you want to go check that out, you can head on over to business with monica.com forward slash thrive. And we also have a link in the show notes. Thanks so much. This is Tracy Matthews, signing off. Till next time. As always, thank you so much for listening to the show today. I hope you enjoyed it. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. It's my mission to help 1000s of creative businesses inside and outside the jewelry space use their creativity to make money. Make sure that you're subscribed to thrive by design on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and wherever podcasts are played. And we'd love to hear what you think. Please rate and review the show and if you're inspired please share this with your friends. Cheers to seeing you flourish and thrive.