S3 E14 - 6:17:21, 1.13 PM
5:15PM Jun 17, 2021
Lee Skallerup Bessette
Hey, everyone, welcome to another episode of the all the things ADHD Podcast, where Amy and I talk about what it's like having ADHD in our 40s as Gen X women. Yeah, that's pretty much what we talked about and everything else because it's an ADHD podcast. So digressions today is part two of three of our conversation around being just a too much, and how our brains work in overdrive and how that gets us to be stuck sometimes and overwhelming sometimes and overwhelmed. And other times and, you know, all the things that come along with that, and hence the name all the things. Again, this is part two of three of our conversation, because we obviously had a lot to say, around this, around this subject. So this is a continuation of the conversation we started last week, or that you listened to last week. Or if you've been gene, maybe you just listened to it. moments before this one. So it'll feel almost seamless, except for my ramblings at the beginning in the end of this particular episode. So enjoy. As always, I'm ready writing. Amy is did you want you can email us at all the things firstname.lastname@example.org you can go to our website, all the things ADHD calm. And if you literally just listened to this after the outro of the last episode, which incidentally, I just recorded before this one, I forgive you for skipping through and pressing the advanced 32nd button. So with that, I'm here is Amy and I get again? Well, it's like for me, I am going to, you know, and a lot of people say this is the extrovert versus introvert tendency. But I really think it's because of the ADHD where I have to talk through an answer. Right, you will ask me a question. And it might be the easiest question in the world. But it'll take me 20 minutes to answer it because I have to talk through to finally get to it. And everybody says why you always once you get to the answer. Why do you always say it again? Because I'll do that. I'll answer a question. And then I'll answer it again. Now, like, why are you doing it? And now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like, so make sure that it's right. Yeah, that's right. Like because my brain couldn't take it in a different direction. And I
do want to make sure is actually the good direction, double underline. It's like, it's like, Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? Is that your final answer? Right. So by saying it twice in a row, that's my final answer. That's funny. I'm like, Okay, yeah, that's it. And then I repeat it, because I've got 10 other ideas.
Yeah, boom, boom, boom, boom, in your head. And so sometimes it's an I noticed this when I'm doing the podcast, and sometimes I'll edit it out. We're all have like, that'll be my transition point. I'm like, Where did I stop making sense? And I'll listen for that point where I stopped making sense. I'll edit that out. And I'm like, that's the end of the episode, we switch topics, and my brain has skipped a beat. And that's and that is literally when I will go and cut that out. And whatever I say next, or use it have said next in reaction to my incoherent ness. I'm like, that's the new episode. All right, good. We dead serious life.
We need that in real life. Because I too, I like I like to talk things out. Because, again, I guess I need that sounding board, I need to look at somebody else's face when I'm explaining something. And if they look confused, I'll be like, okay, now I need to explain that better. And then I will, or they'll ask me like, a follow up. Question like, is that like this? And I'll be like, no, it's not, which now allows me to clarify. And I know, out of all the 10 million bits of information in my head about toxic robot masculinity. I know exactly. The thing I need to say to make it make sense now, but I don't get that without bouncing it off. Somebody, it's like somebody else serves as my sort of editor might in my brain editor there is like, what is the best way to make this point? Or what is the best way to advance this argument? Or what is the best way to share this knowledge while with somebody is like, I sort of have to do it live? Yeah, exactly. What comes out, right?
Yeah, no, no, that's exactly it. And a beat is one of the reasons why I really like making podcasts. Hmm. Because I just like, sure, let me talk it out. Let me just talk it out with you. Um, it's also why I don't like scripted podcasts, right. So I'm like, No, give me that. You can give me the questions ahead of time. That's probably smart. I'm not necessarily going to tell you I've prepared an answer, but at least I have some direction to sort of like, guide the stream, right. Well, I was rushing river.
Oh, yeah. You don't you don't want to get surprised by one of those questions. Like what are the 10 best books on ADHD? like shit? Yeah. would have asked me to look this up before.
Yeah, exactly. So you don't but but those like so the ones where they want information, right, like what should I be listening to? What are your three tips, you know? Like any of that, yes, I will sit here and I will think those out. But those other ones that are more broadly, like, tell me about your research. I'm like, let's just see what my research gonna sound like today.
Yeah, I don't know that either one of us would be as articulate about how to be a grown ass woman with ADHD if we were doing this podcast alone if we were talking into a microphone by ourselves, right, because I think each of us, crystallizes the idea that we want to share in dialogue with the other. So yeah, so probably, because we both know too much, right? We both know too much. And sometimes when you know too much, it's hard to get started. And like, I know, this sometimes comes up in school, for children with ADHD, who, who really struggle with the sort of modes of assessment because it's like, you know, do this project on natural resource and it's exploitation in Canada, like, oh, kids, it'll be maple syrup. Maybe okay, but now I know, 85 billion facts about maple syrup. And when the teacher is like, you know, what's the just like? I don't know. But you know, if they say like, is maple syrup production, environmentally friendly or not? Oh, okay. Well, I can answer that. Because like, Here's 10 more facts about maple syrup. Like, it's the kind of question that assessments tend to ask or like, write an essay about this and be like, your child is failing, because they couldn't, you know, write five pages and like, Yes, because my child could have written 40 pages, right. So the discipline and sort of executive function and editor function required to whittle down 40 pages worth of fun facts, anecdotes, and interpretation that's in your head down to five pages is like a task. That's, that's much too hard. So people often misunderstand that people with ADHD have lost the plot don't know what's happening and don't have the required information. Often, the problem is that we have way too much information and do not know how to get it out in the required format or within the required sort of constraints of space time, formal language, informal language, you know, oral delivery, PowerPoint presentations, as we cannot what's relevant and what cannot find a way to make all the learning that we have come out in the way that people wanted either because of the way that they're framing the questions, or because of the way the assignment is designed. Because it's almost easier to try to this actually, dissertation students have this problem. And is that in there undergrads, they read until they have enough information to produce a minimally viable 10 page product, right? It's like I know, just enough to fill out 10 pages. But every year that you stay in school, you learn more and more and more about comparative Canadian literature, for example, so that now when somebody says 10 pages, you're like, holy shit, I can't do that. Not because you don't know enough, but because you know so much. Yeah. Right. This is why senior academics, even neurotypical senior academics are always saying, like, I can't possibly do a 15 minute paper. It's too short. Right? And they mean it because they're just won't use that editor function. So like, I think that's a common misconception about people with ADHD is that we don't have enough information. And often, it's that we have too much. And we're not really trained about what to do, when that's the problem that you have, like I had everything there is to know about maple syrup, but I cannot fill out this worksheet. Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. I want to talk a little bit more and like, go back because there's other maximalist tendencies that we have to, and you were talking about the the element of shame, right, that you feel shame around, not being able to edit your own work, but I think that there's we have because of all of our different interests, and also knowing the kind of stereotype of and I fall into this, the stereotype of people with ADHD being lazy, the stereotype of that we can't get anything done all those kinds of things like I have, and there's also the gendered element of being people pleaser, and all that kind of stuff, but I can't say no to things. Right. Right. Um, in part, because everything is interesting. Mm hmm. Right. Like everything sounds like a really fun project.
Well, and let's be honest, the project that has not yet been started is always more interesting than the project where you are exactly in the right
yeah, yeah. Yeah. And so you know, and we talked about this about rest and about burnout and about falling down and it's just and I think it also has to do with like, not understanding time, right? He we have a lot of trouble with time. Like I think there aren't 48 hours in one day or this is this like how long is this going to take? I don't know 15 minutes? Well, no, actually an entire day. Oh, hmm. So I guess I can't do this and the 17 other things that I committed to because I thought this is only gonna take 15 minutes. So it's this you know, the I agree to a lot of things right. So I this maximalist tendency and I mean, you you've said it before already that like, you know, I coach I write I teach I you know, I have my job I've got like two side teaching gigs I've got,
if I know Lee, who do all the things,
I do do all the things And yet, you know, I find myself saying yes to other people say like, I love to do that thing as well. Like, do you want to contribute to like, do you want to write two textbook chapters? Sure.
Sure. Why not?
Yeah. And I mean, it's it's in things that I like it's on, you know, digital fluency and, and increasing diversity and inclusivity. And, you know, building digital identity, and I'm just like, man, like, I've been teaching about this for years now. Like, I got it all up. Again, it's all up there. It's all up there and cool to get it out on paper, because
awesome. This is gonna work for sure.
Yeah. And it well, they gave me deadlines, and I'm relying on other people. So that kind of did but right. But you know, at what cost? Right? And I'm happy I did it that but like, but sometimes it's, it's saying yes. And I did it, I feel good about it. But what was the cost of that? Yeah. Right. What was the cost of agreeing to do this thing, finishing the thing, and this is one of those circumstances where a shitty first draft is really good, right? Like, that's all they really wanted from me was a shitty first draft, and then to be able to iterate it. So that sort of took a lot of pressure off to write, I don't have to give him like a polished, peer reviewed. Let's go. Um, but yeah, and so sometimes I'm really thinking about these maximalist tendencies, what is the cost on us, even if we get it done, even if we feel good about it at the end, even just like, you know, talked about it before, I gotta get this sewing project done by the end of the weekend, right? Like, I just, I got to get it done. Like, what's the what's the cost of that? Well, I haven't. Yeah, of course.
I mean, I think I think the cost of that, again, surprising no one, my experience is slightly different in that I say no to a lot of things, because I really need to focus on the one thing, but then I tried to focus on the one thing, and I turned it into 45 new things, right. So I like try to dig down, I had a book I was trying to finish it was going to be about digital life writing generally. And I worked on it for so long. And in such detail, that I decided then actually the chapter on selfies was going to be the book. So I could discard the rest of the book. And that was just going to be a book about selfies. And I'm started write that book about selfies. And I've been reading and writing and writing and I have like, 100,000 words on that now, like, maybe it should just be a book about social justice selfies, like I'm digging down and down and down. And the further down I go, the bigger I make it, the bigger I make it. But I keep saying no to things because I want to quote unquote, focus, but like, versus drill, drill, drill, because every time I go down to start getting narrower, it's getting wider, but like the thing is Lee, we're both bored. Like, I think that's the issue. I think we're both bored in different ways. So you say yes to things, possibly. Because sitting still with a reasonable amount of work is not enough to get you going. They know, just on the knife edge of falling to pieces, so that you can surf that adrenaline wave and get everything done. But just barely, right? Yeah, I have a slightly opposite tact. I get so bored when I even have the discipline to focus on a reasonable number of things to get done. And like our mutual online friend, Joe, then every wrote this, like I was complaining the other day, and like I said, Oh my god, I made this thing. 10 pages longer. Instead of 10 pages shorter, I need to cut things like instead of adding new things, and she said, Is this an ADHD thing? Are you just so bored? Because you already know the stuff that you already wrote that you have no interest in looking at it again, that what you're interested in is every new idea that you have, and I was like, shit,
yeah, yeah, I saw that. I was like, oh, that hurt Joe,
that is like, Oh, that's exactly what happened. So I'm doing a version of what you're doing. So it looks like I'm saying no to everything that I'm focused very specifically on one important task. But when I get in there, I turn it into 45 new projects, right. So what both of us are manifesting here is a kind of misuse of plenitude, a misuse of maximalism, to create a kind of work pattern where we get things done, but it's not the things that we need to get done or not in a healthy way. Right. Yeah. So that we are still creating situations of happy brain chemicals that are what we need to have in our heads in order for us to work right. But other people don't have to trick their brains into work, right? Yeah. So your brain into working by releasing stress chemicals into your body by almost overburdening your schedule, just being on the very edge of like, even if I worked really hard on this, like a grown up, I may or may not get it done. And that's exciting. And it focuses you. And for me, I'm like, I'm really going to do the best possible job of writing this book that I'm writing, and every sentence that I look at, already wrote that but now I have three more really interesting ideas about the topic of that sentence. So I'm going to be a very good scholar and write those down, but we're both fooling around. Because we are indulging in habits that produce brain chemicals that allow us to work, but it's not the work that we need to do. Or it's in your case, maybe like cutting too close into your schedule, right. And for me, it means I'm never going to finish I'm going to write, I'm going to be chidi Annigoni from the good place. I have like a 3000 page dissertation, and my supervisors gonna say like, you need to make some edits, I'll be like, maybe four or five more chapters. I'll just add, yeah, like, I'll just keep that's me. I'm cheating. I'm like, stomach ache all the time. And I'm just like, add more, because the world is complex, and I want to give it its due. And I want to be sophisticated, and I want to be like, attentive to the nuance and the details, which I'm bad at. So I'm just going to keep writing and writing, you're ready. And you're like, I'm just gonna keep saying yes. And saying yes. And saying yes. So what we're not learning is how to manage our energy in a functional way, instead of one that just goose's our brain chemicals. Right?
Shit. Is that possible, though? Like, I mean, and I'm not being like, again, it's this whole, like, ADHD is still new to me. Right? And so it's, it's, you know, it isn't, is it possible, right? Like, is this like, because, because we're medicated, and it helps, right? And, um, but it you know, as we've said, it doesn't make it go away. It just makes it a little bit more manageable, and not as overwhelming just like, moderately overwhelming. But like, I don't know, like, because my husband, my husband says, and he knows me, he's just like, you're gonna take on another project? Or, or if I am getting cranky and irritable, he'll be like, do you need to start a new project? Right? Because he knows he's like, the busier you are, the happier you are. Yeah. Right. And, and in a way, I think that that is, is a truth about some people with ADHD, at least for me with ADHD. But I don't know, like, and I happy. It's just basically pleasant. Right? I'm more pleasant. You're right. Like I Yeah. Right. You know, I mean, there's, there's, I can be busy and happy and busy and miserable. And I've been both right. Um, but like, I am a less. I'm less unpleasant to be around the busier I am.
Right? Right. Like, and I am less unpleasant to be around, the fewer things I have to keep track. Right? Yeah. Because I get rapidly overwhelmed by that stuff. It's not energizing. For me. It's, it's draining. And so can we, like change some of our habits. So like, I started medication when I did, and then afterwards, after a substantial amount of a lot, like at least a year and a half or so later, was when I started ADHD, focus therapy, right, which some of that was around. These are habits that you think are an inevitable part of the way that things get done. But we're actually a coping strategy for your unrecognized disorder, right? And you are attached to them, because now they are habits, right. So like, in what ways? Are there sort of patterns that we have to unlearn? Like, is it possible to be motivated to work without feeling like you might throw up? Right? Because for me for a long time, my best sort of get things making, I'm making a pensive face right now going like, maybe for a while when I like really into a project, right? Like, do I need to feel like it's possible, I'm going to die. While I'm attempting this in order for me to do it at all? Maybe not. Right, like, so I think we talked in another episode about like, my insight that I don't have to do an entire spring's worth of yard work. Yeah. But I used to have to do that. Because otherwise, I would not remember to start all the different tasks, I'd block one miserable day in the calendar where I would attempt 75 different things. And it's like, oh, I don't actually have to do that anymore. And I don't, but but something like our, our personal relationships, or our hobbies, or the sort of cognitive things that we have to do in our work are like a little bit less easy to spot that we're being dysfunctional about them. Like, it is not right to try to do an entire springs worth of yard work in one day. Anybody can see that. And that's easy to recognize, but is like when Joe said to me, like, are you just writing new things? Because that's more interesting, right? than going back to ideas you already had. Because you already have those ones. And that was like, I never saw that about myself until she pointed it out. And then I 1,000,000% saw that about myself and I talked to my therapist about it, right. It's like, what am I going to do, David? What am I going to do something new, right? Yeah. And so like, a new strategy, give me a new strategy. Things I can try out right. So yeah, like I think it's like if it works for you, and there's no I mean, this like we were talking about eating and yeah, right. Like if you are achieving your goals in the world, and you don't go to bed every night with regret, right or a stomach ache, then sure, pylon too many things because that's who you are. It's not too much for you, right? But if you decide that it does, in fact, feel like it's having some downsides, downstream from your own decision or other people are suffering because of the way you do things, or you are kind of suffering in a different domain, because of the way you operate in this domain, then that's when you can start thinking about like, Is this how I want to continue? So like, my problem is, I can't finish these books, right? Because I keep books plural, to add to book contracts, right to book contracts. What is what the six now doing? Oh, yeah, yeah. Like, it's insane. Like, I have so much privilege in the sense of like, I don't even have to worry, like, are these things going to get published? If they are going to get published? I have contracts, I just cannot finish them. It's so embarrassing, right? And it has to do with the to muchness it's not that I'm lazy? No, oh, gosh, no, oh, many voices, trying to get onto the page simultaneously out of my head, that is just good confidence and don't get anything done. Right. So I think that's, that's quite common for people. So like, I think that's what's happening is we're bored, we're bored. And we try to goose our brains into being engaged by these sort of dysfunctional, sometimes, strategies that don't advance, like where we want to go. Because my way of writing is not helping me finish a book, it's just gonna be like, Oh, this book about personal computers is now just going to be a book about Robocop. Right? I'm not just going to keep drilling down until the book project gets narrower and narrower, but somehow longer and longer. Totally read book or read a row. Totally not helping, but totally not helping. I could just write it before breakfast tomorrow, because that's like, asked me about the film. So Paul Verhoeven like, do
I'm ready. I'm ready. You want to talk about cinematography?
You are talking about the original Robocop? And not only Okay, all right. I've been dying asked that question the entire time. I'm like she is talking about the rich,
I have to address the sequels which produce increasingly recuperated version of robotic masculinity into established orders of capital and good versus evil, they become less dystopian, less innovative as they go. And, you know, Lee, because I know, there was a Canadian children's television series of Robocop that ran for 26 episodes, in 1995. But it was basically like, Robocop and OCP. Together work to save the world. Like it was just what is all I can do not to watch all the episodes because I absolutely do not need to know. But I do. Yeah, easier to learn new things about Robocop to prove to everybody what an expert I am than it is to cut this chapter to something really simple.
Look, dude, do you know how many of those body breaks I watched yesterday on a whim of calling it that? Right? So it was totally on a whim? Because I was like, how do I want to title these episodes? Right? And then I was like, well, we're talking about movement. And then I went to like the ADHD thing, right? It's like, oh, we're talking about movement. And oh, my God, do I remember when body break followed me on Twitter. And that was the most amazing moment of like, my, one of like, the top 10 amazing moments of deception. Oh, do do do with the action. See, it's all up there.
Up there. Yeah. And we were recording a podcast. And now we're going on a side question our own memories of like, the TV shorts,
right? And if our listeners aren't used to that yet, then they have been listening to the wrong podcast. Um, but yeah, so then. So then I was like, well, I need to I need to link to something for those that don't have the context of what body break is because I know that a lot of our audience is not Canadian. And this is a very Gen X, early millennial sort of rock. Yes. Right. Like this is this is sort of this real niche. So of course, a quick Google search. Oh my god, they have a YouTube channel. Oh, my God, look at their ski outfits. Oh, my god, they're still making.
When I had come across in my Insomniac, midnight news, browsing about, you know how speaking out about racism at ESPN in the early 1980s. I also went on a body brake deep dive the exact same one that you did, because learning new things is interesting to me. I would always rather learn something new. Then finish something that is a product about what I already learned. And I'm always like, this is like we're both Spider Man in here.
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like,
oh, here's something and I make a weird connection. You've made a weird connection for target. This is like a podcast about movement, a body break. Where the fuck did that come from out of your brain? Like, no, it's just like, boom, popped. And then you immediately like Spider Man your way over to the body break zone of your brain. And then you're like, oh my god. Remember when two suits when people were matching when suits look like where did that start. Now I'm going to look up like Tom and I find a pattern for that. And then like you get to, it's only it's gonna be three minutes later and then you're gonna be like seven steps away from where you started. And I would have forgotten to publish the podcast. Yeah, right. Yes. That's there you go like drop. That's ADHD maximalism right? There is we're just so tremendously interested in the immediately brand new thing that just popped into our heads, which other people often are fascinated by, because they're like, I don't know how you made that connection. And like, I don't know, either. But there was inside my head, who Yeah. Oh, that's an amazing metaphor for something. I'm like, I don't know. It was just in my head, right? or How did you even know that? I don't know. It was just in my head. So people are often like, surprised and amazed, like, Oh, you're so smart. Because look at those connections you're able to make? And I'm like, Yeah, because he asked the question the right way. If you asked me a question in a different way, I would have been like Mark. Right. Yeah. So like ADHD maximalism is this, like, you compile all this stuff in your head and you keep chasing it down just because it's interesting while you're doing it, and then suddenly, you're like, the little kid that that was looking at something in the mall, and now their parents are gone. And they have no idea what happened. Right. And you're,
how did I get here?
How did I get here?
I supposed to be doing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and so finding smell. So I've, I've been I've had this really experience acutely, because I wrote, I wanted to write about growing up where I did in Montreal, when I did write, which is a very specific, I'm a Bill 101, baby. Like the amount of explaining and again, there's an easy answer to the question. Like, where are you from?
That's not an interesting answer. No,
no, I can't tell it that way. And so I'm like, there's a, I literally have what is 120,000 words now on this? And it is it is a mixture of like, obscure Quebec wild pop culture. And like, do you want to know the history of national snack cakes? Because I can tell you the history of national
movies Yum, yum, yum.
Yep. which ended up coming out in like my datacenter club work and talking about the baby sir club and how they could better translate Twinkies for cat back while audience but that's, you know, like, again, that chocolates. Yeah. But I'm sharing this so I have a complete manuscript is a really rough manuscript, right? Like it's 120,000 words of like, word vomit with some like, again, like rabbit hole research, right? That I think is so important to like, you have to understand about our culture, you have to understand visual snack cakes. Let me explain to you national snack cakes.
a cigarette hanging out of my mouth, too. Yeah. Right. And,
and the and the different and how important it was that you either smoked the mores or players. That's right, right. You had the red packs, or the blue packs. And that was like really important that you drank Molson or Labatt. Yeah.
And that was, you know, dudes were speedos to the beach. I don't know why. Oh, God, don't even get me started. Right. That's, I could tell my beach because we like we lived on the border of Ontario. Yeah, great. And we had a beach It was very close to the border. And you could tell the Ontario people from the Quebec people buy their bathing suits was weird. I like and we, each of us half an hour apart from each other. Oh, yeah. two completely different fashion vibes. Yeah. Oh, and everybody has rooms
all of us had perms. Men. Well, that that was also just when it was but so. So now I'm sharing it. I'm part of this writing group. And so I'm sharing parts of it with the writing group. And it's been really interesting to sort of get a complete, outsider's response from this. Right? Where it's and I know what what it is now, where it's like, there's a lot of stuff here. And it's interesting stuff. And I write it well, but they're like, there's no theory. Yeah, where are you going with this? And I'm like, I literally then they're like, so what is this? I'm like memoir, history, personal history. And I'm like, Yes,
yes. Yes. Now it's at like john malkovich memoir, publishing my memoir.
But, but it's, it's kind of like, and whenever I tell people about it, they're always like, and they're like, Who cares? Like, well, let me tell you about how I grew up with three different religious school systems to linguistic school systems. new language laws that were just introduced that told us which schools we could go to, but also which languages we have in our flag. I lived through two referendums, and like the explosion of both Canadian right that 80s 90s sort of cultural Canadian explosion, but also Quebec wall cultural explosion that was happening, like literally right there. How everything in Quebec had to have like this parallel epic la version of anything that was going on, in either English Canada or the United States. Like an all of this just sort of comes bearing down at you. And when you're in it, you're just like, whatever this is, you know, this is what life is and then you leave it and you're like, Jesus Christ. That was weird. How is very specific, very special. civic and theory weird. Um, and so like that's I wanted to end like, again, the ADHD brain injury was like trying it, it's still grappling with it or trying to make sense of it all, but in a way that makes that I can explain it to other people. That again, is that maximalist tendency, like did it need 120,000? words? Like know how many words 75,000 words on the education system?
Yeah, like, yikes.
Yeah, well, exactly. I'm like, What the hell? So like, we're
in the same spot there, right? We have too many ideas. They're all equally interesting. We want to write them all. And yeah, I think important grad student wave writing. But first, it is important to note that, dear everybody, take that out of your draft. Don't tell me Don't say before we begin when you're on page 30. Don't do that. Right. Ask me how I know this is how ADHD people tell stories, though. Right. I'm sorry. Let me back up for a second. Let me back up for a second.
Well, I'm not going to back up for a second. But I am going to take this moment to end this week's episode, part two of our conversation and we'll come back around next week to continue that conversation. Because we had all the things we wanted to say and had to spend an hour and a half saying it still isn't really read our Mary's Kondo tidying up conversation in having all the things to say, but comes pretty darn close. So
yeah, as always, I am ready writing on Twitter. Amy is did you want you can email us at all the things email@example.com or visit our website at a poor, you think I know my address by now. All the things adhd.com and we'll be back next week. Or maybe we'll be back in three minutes or two minutes after you take a bathroom break. Because you're binge listening to these. But no matter how you're listening or consuming this podcast, thank you so much for listening. Do your best to try to stay focused. And if you can't stay focused, try to use less than 200,000 words to say whatever it is that you need to say. But if you don't, that's okay. I want to hear all the words anyways. So have a great day, afternoon evening morning. bout of insomnia. chores who knows however, you're listening. I hope that thing you are well and things are well. Have a good day.