Hey everyone, welcome and welcome back. I'm so glad as always, to be here with you in this ether, black hole, World of the podcast, place in time, and today, I have the enormous pleasure of being joined by a really fucking cool human who is just an awesome, awesome, awesome person whose name is Dee, Frane, and Dee is a, oh my gosh, a change maker catalyst, which I think is so freaking cool that is helping people social impact, leaders, change the world. And so welcome, Dee, so glad to have
you. Thank you. I'm so excited to talk about human being with you. Yes,
yes, yes. So if you don't mind, would you just quickly introduce yourself? It doesn't have to be your bio. It could just be whatever you want people to know about you in this moment, whatever feels resonant and relevant. Yeah,
I don't. I'm a silly, fun, playful weirdo who, you know, woke up as a baby and wanted to change the world, and have not stopped thinking about it ever since. I'm pretty obsessive about leadership and change and making the world a more just and equitable place for everyone. I was that annoying kid that was always like, What do you mean? It's not fair. That's dumb. Why don't we make it fair? So I don't know. I just recently learned that a big part of ADHD is justice sensitivity, so I think I need to be tested.
What I mean this is not what we're here to talk about today, but can we just have a moment for all of the adults in our lives, and which may be also you or me that are like, hey, like, ADHD may be a real thing for me and not like, this catch all thing, of like, everybody's got it, but like, oh shit. Like, this is why, yeah, these things have happened. The this is why I've had these experiences. Like, I can't tell you, in the last two years how many of my friends have been able to finally come to, like, an understanding, like, with the help of their healthcare team, of like, hey, like, there's, there's actually something going on here and been going on for a long time.
Oh yeah. We can start down a rant that I have because I read way too much neuroscience, and I'm like, there. I there. I don't think there really is any such thing as neurotypicalness. I mean, like, and I'm not trying to say that to dismiss anybody's diagnosis that makes them feel more seen and heard and validated in the world, but like, there's no two brains that are the same, and so, like, just this idea of a typical, neurotypical but also, I think a lot of the ways that our brains are adapting to capitalism and the world, the way it is, divergence is probably a normal reaction to a lot of this messed up stimulus. So, you know, yeah, but justice sensitivity, yeah, life isn't fair. And I don't like when people tell me that, wow, you
don't like when people tell you that it is fair or that it is not well, like, you know, as a little kid,
being like, Well, why is it that way? Or, like, you know, getting in a fight with my mom about something she was saying, and the reason was always like, Well, life isn't fair. Get used to it. And I'm like, But you say we could do, I could do anything I want in the world. So why wouldn't I want to make it more fair?
Yes, it's, you know, oh my gosh, what that is? Such an eight, I feel like 80s and 90s kid like. That is a response that so many of us heard, yeah, and
it's just like, normalizing, right? Like, yes. So things like pointing things out that were weird because I was a girl, not a boy, or because we were poor and didn't have money, or this that the other right? And it was just like, okay, but that sucks. And we say that we love all people, but Right? I'm being taught these, like, values and morals at church, at other places, and I'm like, okay, but like we say over here, this is important, and this is the way we're going to do things, but then this is how we're actually doing them. There seems to be a mismatch. There's no integrity here. I mean, obviously I didn't have that language when I was little, but I was just like, that's not fair. Why? What? There seems to be a contradiction here.
I think it's so cool that you're drawing these parallels between, like, your experience and your understanding now, and and your experiences in a in childhood, and like how that's kind of impacting the the work and the way that your work is taking shape now, and how it continues to grow and evolve, which is so cool. Yeah,
I've always been pretty nerdy about it, so I it. There's been points where I'm like, Oh, that's so strange. I got a PhD in leadership, and then I'm and I look backwards, I'm like, no, it's actually pretty obvious. Like, of course you did. Then I was like, the kid that was like, doing every leadership program an opportunity. Like, yeah, from elementary school on, Duh, of course I did. But like, I don't know, it's weird. Oh, that's
awesome. And so we are here together today to specifically talk about anger. Because when I reached out to you, like, Hey, do you want to come on and, like, yell about some stuff. What might you want to talk about? And you're like, how about anger, right? Yeah. And I'm like, Oh my gosh. Like, this is so fucking timely, because I don't know, I mean, like, again, like you've said, like, not to make light of anybody's experiences, but there's so much shit out there to be mad at right now, ongoing stuff, long, long, long, long, ongoing stuff, and also more recent shit that's going on. And so you gave me a few things, a few topics that you want to talk about, and I'm like, shit. I don't even know, like, where we should even start here, but here, because, like, we could just talk about any of one of these for episodes and episodes and episodes. Yeah. So I want to offer you two opportunities of ways that we could get started. You get to choose which one you want to go with
and choose your own adventure also. Yeah,
yeah. So first one is we're conditioned not to be angry, and why that's one of the most dehumanizing things we've learned to do. Yeah, and then there's a caveat for that. Or do you want to start with what anger really is, and how can we reclaim our anger for sustainable as sustainable fuel for change? Let's
do it in the order that you said it okay. I think it builds really nicely.
Let's do it so let's talk about being conditioned to not be angry. Oh, yeah, I feel like blood, like my blood pressure started to rise, like, as I just said that.
I mean, like we have all of our own repressed anger from our own experience as a, you know, women in this world, and then also, you know, epigenetically, like we carry a lot of rage from our ancestors who have been wronged. And so,
you know, so as humans, we are carrying generational correct anger, yeah. And then also, what I'm hearing you say is, depending on how we have been conditioned in terms of the gender we've been assigned, yes. And then there's as well as all of our other intersections, right? And then the intersections Exactly. So I want to make sure, like, what are we exactly talking about? So it's so layered and so multifaceted, I want to but go ahead, keep going. Yeah.
So, you know, at the in our oppressive systems, right? All of them are creating a hierarchy where one person or one type of person is at the top, and the intersections of all of them place a CIS, het, white, Christian male at the top of the hierarchy, right? And so if you are not in that positionality, you intentionally marginalized by by these systems. And if you have one or more of these identities or positionalities, we have been taught that we're not allowed to be angry. So why? Anger is a very igniting emotion, and it's a protective emotion. It lets us know when our morals, our ethics, our values, our mental, emotional, physical, physiological boundaries are being violated. It's it's really an invitation for us to see very quickly that something is not correct, and that's that we are being wrong, that we are in harm's way, in a system that tells us that we need to shut up and take it that like, and it's not even silver like, explicitly taught. A lot of these things are implicitly taught that we are observing as babies, when our brains are sponges, and just trying to figure out the rules and the expectations of the world that keep us alive, that keep us in the in group, that keep us safe. It's like a primal instinct to say, to figure out like, this is how the world operates, and this is how I have to behave, to be a part of the tribe, to be a part of the group.
And so if we're conditioned to not be angry, who wins? Then the people who hold the most power, yeah, privilege, yeah,
absolutely, people with the power of the privilege, people on top, the people with fewer intersections of positionality, right? I am a white woman, I have to acknowledge my whiteness allows me to be the angry one in some rooms, but not all the rooms, right? If I'm in a room with a CIS, het white male, I'm not allowed to be angry. But if I'm in a room where my whiteness is an advantage, I'm socially allowed to be angry.
So it's almost as, oh, sorry, go ahead. No, it
so it is a really weird thing, because it's dynamic, right, but, but, but more so than not, if you hold any of you know, being put in a place of less power means that you are less entitled to anger, anger as a corrective force, anger. As a way to stand up for yourself, a way to say this is unjust and we need to do something about it. And so we when we are conditioned or told we're not allowed to be angry, and there's so many different ways that that happens, you know, using really gross tropes to tell you that, like, that's wrong and you shouldn't do it, and to basically shame you out of using anger, or, you know, like, even like, if you express anger and a man is like, what are you on your period? Or something, right? There's just so many different ways that our anger has been invalidated, and we learn that it's easier to eat it or to shove it down or to not speak to it, to the people who have power, the to the people who have wronged us, than to do something about it. It becomes very dehumanizing, because we are negating our own needs, our own safety, our own humanity, in order to keep the peace, to be non confrontational, confrontational, to recognize our place in the power structure.
And sometimes, I think there may have been a lot of time that has gone by from the time we were born until we realize our place in the power structure. Yeah, and I think that maybe it could happen a few different ways. Actually, maybe you're well aware of where you fall in that structure, but maybe you might have been raised around people who kind of have just had to take it right, had to be quiet and or and so you may have, you know, realized, oh my gosh, like, there's nothing I can do about this. This is what is, and there's nothing I can do about it. There are other people who may be in the same situation, but are feeling like, Well, why aren't you, as the adults, doing something about it? Why aren't you standing up? So there may be some anger about that too, um, and also maybe another experience where you know the people who are around you, helping raise you are doing something about it, and and you you see that experience too. I mean, like, there's so many ways that this could go.
Yeah, I think it, it really depends on the relationship that the your caregivers have with their own anger, and what is modeled and what you see happening around you. And then also, like, you know, whether or not, how much you feel like you need to conform as a small child to be safe, right? Yeah, it's funny that I started with saying life is that that conditioning of life isn't fair, but I remember like that so often that was like, something that you know did make me angry, right? Whereas like, this is silly. This doesn't make sense. Why aren't we doing something about it? Or, like, That's stupid, that that isn't like, why wouldn't we make that fair? Like, and so, you know, I think it's, it's it's different for each of us, and it's neither right nor wrong. It really does come down to, like, our primal instincts of trying to keep us safe. Yeah, and we often repeat what we see, all right, like, I don't know how many times as a kid, you were around a table of of women assigned female at birth, CIS, you know, women at a table who there weren't any men around, and they were just like, you know, to kind of the the terminology, or whatever, talking like a hidden party, where you're just like, everyone's kind of cackling and like, there's that that simmer of anger or frustration, and it's almost like a pressure cooker where these women around The table are venting their frustration, because frustration is allowed, but anger isn't. And so like, it's almost in your little kid, and you see, like, Oh, this is how we deal with our anger, right? Because we learn that reactive anger, where it's explosive and violent, is not okay. And so we're really only modeled like and especially in media too, because it's hard to show what anger actually looks like. So on media representations, we often see people punching walls and throwing Steff and like that big explosiveness. And so you're like, oh, that's what anger is. That's not safe. I don't want to do that. So it's either that or the seething or the tamping down, where or or like the coercive anger, corrective anger, which is what we see in the people who have power are using violence and coerciveness and explosiveness to harm and and correct people to put them back in the right proper space in the power structure. Right? So if those. Are our only options, and what do we do?
Right? And I think, you know, I'm thinking back to my own experiences, especially for me, you know, like being raised by two immigrants, you know, and as people you know, of the global majority, you know, we don't have white skin so many there's like, just so much going on there. And I also think generationally, culturally, also my experience, how I watched my parents deal with anger, how they instructed me to deal with anger, I think very, very much so it was, you can be angry, and then, you know, you need to get on with it. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, life isn't there That's right, we got to keep going. Move on.
Are you still angry about that that happened two hours ago? Are you still angry, right? And, and I feel like it what the intention was, not to shame me with that question. It was just like, come on, Steff, we got to go like, we got we got to do this thing. And I even find myself sometimes saying that to my kids, and I'm like, damn it, Steff. Like, you know how that made you feel? You can't say that. And and I think what it's forcing me to do now, as I'm trying to break certain generational practices that I still see to this day amongst other family members too, you know, like outside of my immediate family is I have to stop and find different words. I have to be able to define things and find language for these emotions that you were like you were saying, like, I don't know that I have language for this. And how do I offer this to my child when maybe I'm not even dealing with this this way, right? Like I've never been taught so and here I am, 42 years old, and trying to make sense of my own anger and how I feel it and experience it, and then how I allow it to dictate my actions in the world, and I something that I do want to ask you about, though, is that you're you're talking about our experience as either we hold on to the anger and it's just a low simmer for days and months and years, or even the explosive anger, And mean, and there's so much in between that. But you make a point of we are carrying this, and it's gonna have an effect. And sometimes that outward effect is punching walls, screaming, yelling, breaking shit, and other times it may be, I don't know, dismissive behavior, gas lighting, but by spiritual bypass, I mean, the list goes on. But I'm curious, how are you feeling that that the the lack of support in dealing with our anger as well as our conditioning, or the ways we're gas lit to not be angry? How is that making us sick?
Oh, it. I'm so glad you got there, because, you know what is it? 80% of autoimmune stress related health issues are in women. Or, I think it's even higher than that, 97 I recently went to a new dentist, and he asked me if I wore a bike guard. I've been wearing a bike guard since I was 23 because I clench and grab my teeth when I sleep. And he was like, Yeah, I learned, or like, we're seeing that more than 80% of women are the ones that need by cards. And he seemed perplexed
by that. And I'm like, surprise, fucking surprise, right? Like,
you know it's so it's when we don't honor our emotions that's energy. Energy is emotions, a biochemical response in our body, and when we don't do something about it, that energy gets stored, and it's anger is very inflammatory, and most autoimmune stress related disorders are inflammatory issues. And like, Look, I'm not like saying that they have proven that in the science yet, but just having
eyeballs and thinking they're indications
it's there, you know, like this whole I was talking to my partner the other day about this, this issue in western medicine, of like, really disconnecting the mental and emotional from the physical, as if they're not all connected. Because, like, our nervous system takes in stimulus from the sensory information, and then there is a biochemical response in our body that it is emotion. Those two things are fundamentally tied together. And so, like, even in western medicine, like this idea that, like, it's psychosomatic, that it's like the whole premise is broken. But of course, because medicine has been co opted by capitalism, so you know, not doing something about our emotional response will cause a physical issue. And and so like we often see folks marginalized folks, intentionally marginalized folks who are in the lower power, you know, position as doing things to kind of vent that energy, right? We might see passive aggressiveness. We might see. Steadiness, we might see resentment in relationships, and because those things are a little bit more socially tolerable for some reason, or just like a given part of a quote, unquote woman's condition or temperament, right? And so it's like, no, that's a that's women responding to the patriarchy. But okay, tell me more about how we have a flawed disposition. So you know, we'll see it come leak out in other ways, or like depression, which is a, you know, resistance to feeling our feelings, anxiety, a fear of feeling our fear feelings, right? If we have a lot of things that are making us angry, and we're not allowing ourselves to feel that because we don't, we're scared, we'll be explosive or handle it in the wrong way. We might be anxious all the time. So there's it's it's coming out in a lot of different ways if we're not dealing with it. And the reality is, is anger is, is, even though we've taught, been taught, it isn't safe. It is very safe if we allow ourselves to sit with it, to respond to it, to honor it, because the biochemical response is actually really quick, and we just need to get curious and say, Hi. What are you here to tell me? Because all all emotions are messengers. They're neither good nor bad, and we've been conditioned to think that some are bad and some are negative, yes, when those are actually some of the most informative ones that we need to listen to. And so, you know, when we don't listen to those, especially anger, because it is such a powerful ignitive, action driven message, that's when we start to feel like this chronic sense of helplessness and hopelessness and like that, what we do won't matter we we feel very powerless to create change in our life. And so if, if, if you're feeling any of those other emotions, those things that are typically coded as okay or more tolerable, because it's a women, the woman's temperament or or whatever. I would encourage you to get really curious, because there's probably an anger underneath that, and anger is just telling you something that matters to you is not being taken care of, and it's an invitation to say this matters to me, and I can do something about it and and sometimes the the steps to create change are very simple. It's a one step solution. And other times, if, if there is a pattern of you accepting, you know, poor treatment or poor conditions over a longer period of time, it might, it might be a little longer to unwind, like, maybe, like you're in a position at work where you've been poorly treated abused, but you can't just immediately quit your job. So maybe you have to put in some steps to, you know, figuring out, like, what are you going to do next? Get your resume in order, start applying and interviewing, and then you get a new job at a place that's not as toxic or abusive, right? So, like, that's multi step, but at least like the anger is saying I am being violated at work this, this person who is my manager is abusing me and my good will, and I will no longer tolerate this, right? That is the that is the first step of saying, like my needs matter, I will not tolerate this, and I'm going to do something about it.
And so that's how we start to reclaim it, by acknowledging it. You're saying, acknowledging that it's there, that acknowledging why. There's
nothing wrong with you if you feel angry. And we don't need to rush through it, we don't need to tamp it down. We don't need to be scared of it.
Yes, and then I love what you just said, too. You just dropped, like, 10,000 gems in what you just said. And I wish that we had five hours to, like, unpack all that. But the one thing, the overarching thing that I think that you just so beautifully offered to us was one what reclaiming our anger looks like, or could look like, right? Because it's not going to be the same thing for everybody. And also, you touched on the idea of sustainable change, because you said it may be one step that you have to take. It may be multi step, and I love that you said that, because one of the issues with American culture is that we want a quick fix, and we want it right now, and when we can't have that, not only are we frustrated, but also we feel a way about ourselves that we could not make it happen immediately.
It's more of a conditioning that yes has been taught to us to keep us not bucking the system, not pushing back, not changing right, docile and. Inflamed because we're easier to control. It's really gnarly when you start to pull on a thread. But like, it's amazing how much when you allow yourself to not expect the change to be immediate, overnight, like quick pill, kind of change, but once you recognize, okay, this might take multiple steps, I'm committed to doing it, because this change matters to me, how much relief and pride is available to you when you take each next tiny step. Yes, because you're like I'm allowed to feel better because I'm doing something, and I'm allowed to feel proud because I'm doing something and I don't have to feel Wait, to feel relief and pride and celebration and all the things for one that change is done. Every single small step I take, I'm allowed to feel more and more and more better.
Yes, oh my gosh. What a gift that offering is, what a gift it is. Honestly, thank you for that. Oh, it's beautiful and that.
And the thing is, too is, like, if we don't focus on the destination of like, the change is what allows us to feel better. Because, like, some of these, like, larger social issues are generational things. We might not see the change in our lifetime. But like, if we expect to see that change in our lifetime, and we only allow ourselves to feel good once we get there, we're never going to do the work. But like, if we're saying, like, I did something today that mattered, I did something today that said, I don't tolerate this, and I'm going to help be a part of this solution, we get there other things. Like, as we start to get into motion, we get more information. And like, what we thought the destination was, like, a new job might be like, Oh, I have a lot of marketable skills and talents, and I could start my own business, right? But when you've started that, like, I will not stay in this job any longer. That was not available to you, right? And so like sometimes the destination shifts or changes as we get more information. And that's why it's so important to say, like, I'm moving in a towards the direction of what I want more of I'm moving away from what I don't want. And so like that sometimes, when you have been in this position of powerlessness and helplessness and hopelessness for so long, you don't even know what you want. You're very clear on what you don't want. And so like with a lot of clients, I say, Okay, what do you want to feel more of? What are the top feelings that you want to feel more of? And what are the top three you want to feel less of and so then it's like, each next step is it taking me closer to those things that I want or farther away from the things I don't want? And so then that becomes the guiding star, even if you don't know what the quote, unquote destination is, new job. It's like, I want to feel less anxiety, I want to feel less resentment. I want to feel less frustration. And so then this next decision, does this bring me closer to that or farther away from that? I
think that's so cool, because, you know, anger, I know, for me at least, can often feel very restrictive. It can feel like I'm being backed into a corner, like there's no space. And so I love what you just said about acknowledging how it is that you're feeling, acknowledging how you no longer want to feel, and those small steps, like you said, like even if that's one step that I take will not fix the situation. It is changing the energy of the situation I'm in, and it's also opening space. And what anger needs is space to begin to dissipate amongst other things, right? But it fuels more when we, you know, close around it more, yeah, but when we wait, sorry, no, that's okay, when we can open space, then it has a place to go, a place to soften, a place to cool off. And then also we can maybe begin to see more options. So like you were saying, sometimes we end up at a place that we never intended in a good way, right when we just start taking the steps. And I think also another really beautiful thing of creating some space for the anger to exist is actually then we begin to open our mind to other options for ourselves too. So we also regain, I think, some control too, especially like when you were saying that anger can feel very out of control. It can feel very unsafe, it could feel very difficult to be with everything that comes to us through anger. Mm. And sometimes when we're angry, we're just trying to reach for control, and so when we can open the space to the anger, we end up getting control back. Yes,
it's so true, right? Like it needs oxygen, it needs space, and like it as you are changing your practice and awareness of anger, or even recognizing the anger that is there that you have conditioned yourself not to say, See or allow, is just being curious. You know, that's what I when I work with clients around their anger, that's the first step, is just being like you're allowed to be here. I'm sorry I haven't you know, always allowed you in the room before and welcome. How are you? What are you here to tell me, and just being curious and like and and like, not having, allowing yourself the space, to not have to do anything with it, but just to befriend it, to start listening, to get curious. Well, why might I feel that way about that thing that's really interesting, right? Because we're starting it really is allowing us to become aware of a lot of things that are happening on a subconscious level. It's allowing us to see the world differently in ways that we haven't allowed ourselves to see it. It's allowing us to see dynamics in relationships, in community, in spaces and places that we have tolerated or accepted or or or not paid attention to because of the way that we have been conditioned in the world. And so that's a lot, if you haven't done that before, that awakening, that consciousness raising, is a lot. So just give yourself the freedom and the space to just say, like, I'm going to be curious, and I'm going to, I'm willing to pick this up and look at it, kind of like, you know, when you go to a completely different part of the world and you and you see a bug that you've never seen before, and you're like, there's not bug like this where I live, and you, you spend a lot of time, like, looking at it, and we're like, wow, it's got different pictures, and it's got different colors and, wow, it moves different than bugs, like, where I'm from, like, almost, do that as, like, a Anthropo, Anthropo, why can't I say that word, uh, whatever you guys know what I mean, anthropological, yes. Like, it just kind of like, in an investigative spirit and, like, non judgmental. It's like, wow, that's interesting. Where might that have come from? Why might I believe that? Why might that bother me? Why might I have ignored that in the past and like, if I wanted that to change, what would that look like if I if I wanted to not tolerate that anymore. What might that look like? Yeah,
I think that's so it's such a wonderful and sweet way to look at things and to try things, because from an Ayurvedic lens, one of the balancers for the energy that fuels anger is sweetness, and that can feel really uncomfortable, right? To bring in sweetness when we are feeling rage or we are feeling right, okay, that could feel really uncomfortable. But I love how you just offered it in a way that is like, Oh no, that's doable. Because, you know, befriending anger, right? It sounds ridiculous when you first hear it, but, or sometimes it might be like, Oh, my gosh, yes, that's what I need, right? It might sound ridiculous, or it might sound like, Oh, that was what I needed to hear. And it's the sweetness that is the underlying factor of it is sweetness. And so thank you for offering that, because I think that when we're talking about energy, and we're talking about balancing energy, that is necessary, sweetness is necessary. And and so it has to be offered to us by someone else, or we have to offer it to ourselves in a in a way and at a time that it can be received. And so what a beautiful self care practice that is to begin to understand that, you know, when I'm feeling angry, here's something sweet I can do for myself that deals with or acknowledges and creates space for the anger to exist. And this so beautifully leads me to where I want to kind of end our conversation just for today, because this probably is not gonna be the last one. But if I can ask you about your self care, if you have as much time and energy as possible, what might self care look for you look like for you that day when you've got time and you've got energy,
what might it look for you? So I used to be a person that was like, This is my self care routine, and this is what I need to do. And over the years, I've realized that that was putting a lot of, like, perfectionism and like productivity, kind of capitalist, like white supremacist things, into self care, which was not okay, and it was, like, more achievement, focus, necessarily. Like, obviously, when I was doing the things that felt good, but now I really. Hone in on nourishment as the goal, and so I check in with my body every each day, it's not it's less of a checklist. I know what tools help me, and I know which things I kind of what are your favorite ones on the menu, time outside, time just watching the natural world like I can sit and watch bugs do bug things, or birds do bird things. Like, I love tapping into wonder and wonder through nature is a is very nourishing for me. Sunshine. I was born and raised in Southern California, so I need a lot of sunshine to feel good. But yeah, it's kind of like I just asked my body, what do you need right now? It's like, what is the state of my nervous system, and what would nerve what would nourish her and and like turning off my brain and listening for what my body has to say. And sometimes it's a nap. Sometimes it's like allowing myself to binge a show. Sometimes it's going for a walk. You know, journaling, reading for me, like, my brain needs a lot of like information to chew on, otherwise that it turns out and say, like anxious energy. So often learning new things is self care. For me,
I love that. And so I always tell my listeners, you know, I'm always very honest about my own experiences. And so if you could be honest and acknowledge like when you don't have a lot of time or when you don't have the energy. What does self care look like for you in
a positive way or a negative way,
either way?
I mean, I know that I the truthful way. Sugar and caffeine is a crutch when I'm not taking care of myself, and that's like that quick, fast fuel, because I have not fueled myself in a nourishing way, but really quick, easy ways, is just intentional breathing. Like I know if, like, a few minutes of intentional breathing is going to reset my nervous system, reset the biochemical state of my body. And so, you know, I always have a minute to breathe and so like that. And then also just reminding myself I can do anything for 30 minutes. So, like, if my brain's like, you really don't have time. And it's like, okay, well, I can do this for 10 minutes, right? It's like, it doesn't take a lot of time to nourish our body, really,
doesn't. I always say to people 30 seconds is way more powerful than you think it will be. Yeah,
and it matters more more than not doing it right? It's like, I just try to remind myself that it's not that it's an ongoing practice, and anything that I do to nourish myself, even if it's only for a minute, is a minute in the positive column, versus, like, you know, if I chose to do something that was inflammatory to my nervous nervous system, yeah, that is a vote in the negative direction. And so it's just kind of, in each moment, what's the most more nourishing choice that I can make? Yeah,
it's hydrating versus dehydrating period, right? Yeah. And I think it's really important, you know, to acknowledge, like, sometimes we're going to make decisions because we haven't taken care of ourselves the way that we needed to. These are okay decisions, right? We don't have to label them, just like we don't have to label our emotions. We don't have to label what we have done right for ourselves. And I think what's really important to acknowledge, too is that no matter what we do, whether it is, you know, it would no matter, let me, let me finish this one, no matter what we do in terms of disrupting and dismantling any system in place, whether that is the larger systems or the way that the systems are showing up in our own well being, whether it's how we're dealing with anger or what our self care looks like that day. Nothing, no. One thing that we do is going to completely take care of it. All could completely take care of the problem. Nothing. Oh, yeah. We still
live in highly traumatic systems. We are still like enduring on a day to day basis.
But the little bit we can do, whatever we can do, it matters. It really does, and it's worthwhile.
And then the most important things that you can do for self care are things that repair your relationship with yourself that create less judgment, less criticism, less self negation. Yeah, and so it doesn't necessarily have to look like what big, crazy self care practices, but even just being kind and loving to yourself is the most generous and important self care practice you can have, and honestly, the the the most anti oppressive work that you can do, because any of that criticism and any that judgment is the voice and the sound of the oppressor in your own in your own mind. And you know, the more that you can get rid of that, the more self trust you will have, and you're going to feel more self worth. And. You're going to be so much less manipulated and controlled by those oppressive systems, and so much more effective in your work of creating change out in your own life and in your community and the larger world. So you know, as we do this work, as we love ourselves, we become the best role models for change and like there's no better way to lead or influence change than to be an integrity with your values and self love and self that, like self care as self love is is the most anti oppressive work that you can do.
Yes, on that note, tell everybody how they can find you, how they can keep in touch with you. Anything you've got going on that you want everybody to know about. Tell all the things.
Yeah. So I am on Instagram. Just my name defraney. My website's defraney.com I'm sure you'll probably put it in the show notes, because it's a weird name to spell. I've been working on. My current thing that I'm just talking about anywhere and everywhere people will let me is the anger Academy, and it is a small group experience. We're coming together with five other humans to honor our anger. And it's a really beautiful thing, because a lot of our our wounds around anger happen in community. And so we're going to start the healing process in community. And then it's got a little follow up course. It's a audio course, five modules, and then there's this beautifully paperback, bound, printed implementation workbook that will help you completely change your relationship to anger. So that's what I've got going on right now. It's, it's pretty amazing. It's, I've got ongoing the live session. Have it offering them at different days of the week, different times of day, just to make it as accessible as possible for for folks who want to do it, there's equitable pricing and scholarships. So don't think that if you really need to change your relationship with anger and you don't have the funds. But really, really want to, I want to, I want to help you out.
Yes, and all the information for that can be found on your website or on Instagram, either, please. Yeah, yep, yes. Check it out, friends. Don't sleep on it. Thank you. Dee,
thank you so much. I love this conversation, and I love what you're doing for your listeners. So
all right, my dears, remember that you are amazing and you deserve to be well nourished and feel nourished, and so allow yourself that gift in this world, and I'll see you soon. Bye.
