Hi, my name is George Abraham, and welcome to IB conversations. My guest today is Aditi Shah, who works with Microsoft in the United States. She specializes in cyber security and artificial intelligence. Hi Aditi. Welcome.
Thank you so much for inviting me. You know, after
you finished your master's in information technology, you started working as a freelancer, what happened
with me is, you know, I finished my undergrad in it, from University of Mumbai. And even though I was at the top of my class, I was denied interviews. So I started going to a lot of campus placements that were happening in my college and also applied to a lot of other companies in Mumbai. And everyone turned me down because they've never seen a blind software engineer in their life. So they did not think that I would be able to code or performed in my job. So after a lot of those rejections, I still wanted to pursue engineering, like most companies were willing to hire me, but for non engineering roles. So I said, Hey, I don't want to give up on engineering, because I know I'm good at it. So that's what really sparked the passion to get into freelancing. So I used the websites like freelancer.com, and upwork.com, to actually get assignments online. Initially, I started off doing a lot of school projects for American students who would just outsource their school assignments. So that's how I started and started gathering lots of ratings. And then slowly, slowly, I get started getting more mainstream projects after I got good ratings, and I would try to bid lower because for me, getting experience was more important than making money at that point. So that's how I kind of got into freelancing. And that eventually led to my first job. Yeah,
that story about how do you how you got into Iraj that might be interesting to were going to tell us, one
of my friends was working for Iraj and he knew that I do freelance work. So Eros had a project, which nobody on their onsite team was able to do. So they invited me. And I met the boss and he explained the assignment to me, and he asked me by when can you do it? And I said, a week, and I had no clue how am I going to do it? But I so badly wanted a job that I said, Yes, I'll do it in a week. And then I really slogged 2022 hour, days, throughout that week, but I managed to deliver that. And they were so impressed that they offered me a full time role with the company. So that's how it worked out.
And then you got interested in cyber security, how did that happen? So Eros
actually was into enterprise security solutions. So basically, what they do is secure data centers. So basically, you know, there are so many servers and things like that in data centers, right. So they build a product to secure all of these infrastructure in a data center. So I was basically in charge of leading the engineering for this product. So the more I did that, I understood the business and understood, you know, like to defend something you also know how to break it. So I understood various aspects of cybersecurity and I almost fell in love with it. And I decided at that point that this is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life. Or the
you got interested in cybersecurity. So what exactly did you do to pursue this passion of yours?
I did a few courses like I did a Certified Ethical Hacker certification from EC Council. I took some online courses in cybersecurity, to just keep up with the demands of my job. And later on, I really wanted to specialize. So I applied to a few schools in the US that offered cybersecurity specializations, and I got into Georgia Institute of technologies MSN cybersecurity program. So that's when I moved to the US in 2018.
So what the challenges for this transition of yours or was it kind of Just another walk, you
know, it was definitely challenging. Like I said, I was not very independent. When I was in India, I was a very sheltered child, I am a late blind. So my parents took a little bit of a time to just accept that I couldn't see. And I could still walk on roads and be safe. So I was not very independent in India. So when I came here, Georgia Tech was a 400 acre campus in the middle of a city, and every class used to be in a different building. So I had to eventually pick up mobility skills. So that's when I got like, oh, nm training here, and I learned how to walk with a white cane. So a lot of that learning, I had to learn how to cook. Because this was the first time I actually lived alone in my life. So I believe like more than the technical skills, I think just the life skill was a bit of a journey. But I'm just glad I made it.
If you know of anyone with vision impairment, who needs guidance on living life with blindness, please share the EIV national toll free helpline number 1-800-532-0469, the number is 1-800-532-0469.
Then you move to Microsoft. So how did that come by?
So when I was doing my master's at Georgia Tech, and during summer, I interned with Microsoft, and I really enjoyed my time at Microsoft, I think it's one of the most inclusive places in the world, just in terms of you know how easy it is to go around campus, like you're in Seattle, where I live, there are 100 Plus Microsoft buildings, and I can literally go to any building, things are very much in place like the there is assistance available everywhere there is tactile markers on the ground, and things like that. So I just love the fact that I could go around independently meet more people, and everyone was so happy. So I wanted to come back. And that's how I took a full time job. Like they offered me a full time role after my internship and I joined them again, talking
about Microsoft. What exactly is your role here? So
at Microsoft, I work for the Microsoft security team, I basically use machine learning and artificial intelligence techniques to automate a lot of their security response workflows. So basically, you know, there are a lot of frontline defenders who deal with security incidents, like say someone is trying to hack into a hospital, which is hosted on Microsoft's cloud. So then we kind of intervene, we detect that, Hey, someone is trying to hack into, and we kind of have these automated response mechanisms that would immediately block that threat. So that no disruption of service happens. Because that can be like lethal sometimes, especially for hospitals, IT infrastructure goes down, because a lot of life support systems run on the cloud. So a lot of those things is like in simple terms, what I do for security, but it's basically just trying to apply AI to make security much faster and help people who are in the frontline defense,
or the a lot of us keep hearing artificial intelligence, machine language and these things being thrown at us very often when we meet technology people, to the extent that we also started using these words without really knowing what they are, is artificial intelligence and machine language, two separate things are they connected?
So artificial intelligence is the umbrella term, it's basically anything that makes the machine look intelligent, right? So instead of you giving every single instruction to the machine, every time a machine is able to think for itself, that is a technology that we call artificial intelligence. Machine learning is a subset within that. It's basically a technique where a machine is able to learn by example. So instead of defining rules for the machine, like say, if you know a machine is trying to identify an animal, so instead of saying that if it has four legs, and one tail and in all of that, you don't need to define we just give lots and lots of pictures of different animals and it automatically reduces What an animal looks like in, you know, my self. So it's learn by example. So that is basically what machine learning is looking
ahead. How do you see artificial intelligence playing a role in, if I might use the word empowering and liberating blind people say in India, I
think there's a lot of potential, right? Like, a lot of people might be using the My eye right now. So Be My Eyes powered by GPT. Four, which is the technology that we use at Microsoft as well, a lot. So the idea is that, you know, these multi modal models is what we call like, basically, they can perceive multiple modalities, whether it's images, sound, text. So it's basically an amalgamation of all these different modalities. And these models are able to understand these different dimensions. So you give it an image, for instance, and it's able to understand what's in the image and is able to describe it in text, or you give it text and it's able to generate images. So lot of things are going to become possible, which were not possible before, like today, I can take a picture of anything from my phone. And it describes in great detail, what is in front of me. And if I want to draw something, I can give detailed, verbose instructions in text and I can get an image out. So like, the art was never accessible for blind people, now we can engage in art. So you know, AI is just transforming the limits of what you can do without saying,
moving on Aditi. You know, you and I have a common passion, which is reading. I started reading like a maniac ever since technology came to me, because I was denied the opportunities to read what I wanted while I was growing up. What actually got you interested in reading because the current generation people generally say, don't really like reading? Because they have a lot of other options? What got you into reading? What are the kinds of books you read? And why do you think it's important for people to read?
Yeah, I think, for me, I always was very passionate about reading, even before I lost my eyesight. I would kind of give the credit to me being a huge introvert. Right from my childhood, I just hated talking to people. So during summer breaks, my mom would just buy those books, like from a reseller. And I would read like 40 to 50 books over the span of a summer. So I was so much into reading, then I lost my eyesight, and I couldn't do it anymore. And like you said, you know, the moment I figured out technology, it was like a whole new world for me. So I use Bookshare. So I use an app called Easy reader on my phone. I also use Audible whenever I get some nice audiobooks. So those are the platforms I read. I read all kinds of books, I love fiction, fantasy. I read all the Dan Brown Books, all the Harry Potter books, Lord of the Rings, I also love a lot of nonfiction. I am particularly interested in like self help self improvement spirituality. Right now I'm reading a book by Adam Grant called hidden potential. So, you know, like some of my favorite books on the nonfiction side are all the Adam Grant books, in terms of think again and give and take, there is a book called Deep Work by Cal Newport, which I really admire. On the nonfiction side, I already mentioned like Dan Brown is my favorite author. I really feel people should read as much as they can, because I feel that a book is someone's life experience delivered to you in a very succinct manner. So if you can only have certain level of experiences in your life, and specially we as persons with disabilities, we don't have the privilege to travel as much our you know, have every kind of experience in the world. So it's fun to kind of learn about different cultures, different eras, and not of other things from the perspective of these authors. So that's why I feel like people should just read to expand their horizons.
I also believe that you do spend your free time when you have it in playing games online. And you enjoy it. So and I also believe that you seldom lose games. So what got you into games and what are the kinds of games you play? If
I again, from my childhood, I was very passionate about playing cards. And again, like one thing, it could be that I was losing vision gradually, which I didn't know. So, I was not so much into outdoor activities. So I would sit at home play cards, chess carom, and also play computer games. And then now I found these audio game platforms like I use Quincies playroom, which is a very fun platform. And I have a lot of other visually impaired friends who are like minded. So every Saturday, we kind of come together and play, especially because it becomes a bonding thing for people. I live alone in the US. So a lot of times, I'm working throughout the week, I don't get as many opportunities to have those fun informal conversations with people at work. So this is almost like a stress buster, and just a fresh experience for me every week to meet these people have fun. So I play like card games board games like poker and spades and mana monopoly. So we, as a group, we come together every Saturday play these games and just then have very meaningful conversations about life and experiences. So you also said
that you learned how to cook so what's the kind of cooking you do?
I cook a lot of Indian food. I am a vegetarian. So a lot of times in I don't find very good vegetarian options outside in the US. So that's how I got it got into cooking more and more. I pretty much cook everything. I'm from Mumbai. So I cook a lot of street food. I like all types of chard and sandwiches and things like that. I also make a lot of Indian dishes like curries, and roti. So I like lunches always does have G roti. And I also try to cook some Italian like pasta. I try to do indo Chinese. So yeah, I've picked up like a lot of cooking thanks to COVID and just living by myself. Three
people who have inspired you are Satya Nadella from Microsoft, Elon Musk, of the text love fame and the X fame. And a colleague of yours by the name of Avila Shah, tell me a little about what you see in them and what you what, what inspires you.
Yeah, so I'll start with Satya, I really see the culture that he has created every single day at Microsoft, you know, there is such a huge push for inclusion. I have not felt like hiding my disability even once, in my almost four years at Microsoft. So I really feel it takes a lot to create that safe space and create that culture. And I see him pushing for that. And there's less of a compact station and more of a mindset of people coming together to achieve bigger things. So that's I admire him that a single person could bring in that level of transformation. Elon Musk, because I just admire his ability to do so many different things in so many different domains, whether it is space, or electric vehicles or AI. So I read a lot about him. And I really admire his ability to drill down concepts to just first principles, right? Understand the gist of what it is and approach things in a more common sense way rather than getting into a lot of jargon and details. And Abhilasha is one of my dearest mentors at Microsoft. He not just inspires me, through her technical abilities. She's a partner security architect at Microsoft, but she also inspires me through her soft skills, like she's one of the most humble people I've ever met. And she is someone I'm trying to learn how to lead people without authority, like how to just motivate people to do things that you want them to do, but, you know, by actually motivating them rather than commanding them. So that's something I really admire.
You know, you did mention about the Microsoft environment being safe and very inclusive. I also believe that you are actively involved with the various initiatives to to include people with disability within the company within
Microsoft security. I run an employee resource group, which means basically it's for the employees by the employees. And I basically chair that, over there, we do a lot of different events to sensitize our employees about, hey, what are the kinds of disabilities out there? What challenges do they pose? And how do people adapt? Because a lot of times, you know, people, if you tell someone that oh, this person is blind, like, even today, I have people who sometimes wonder how do I use a computer? Right? So it's about sensitizing them at what can people with disabilities do. So we bring in a lot of people with disabilities who are successful to just show them as examples. And we also bring in a lot of other experts to talk about accessibility. How can engineers and designers think about accessibility right from the get go, instead of doing it as a compliance thing, we've tried to create an accessibility CHAMPS program where we recruit volunteers from every area of our security business, so that these people basically connect with us on a regular basis. So they get more sensitives about accessibility, and then they advocate for accessible behaviors within their niches. So, you know, it could be in the product design, it could also mean that if an email is coming out from leadership, it has, if it has images, it has alternate text, you know, just those little things that make the environment more welcoming, because we do have a long way to go in tech to you know, bring in people with disabilities, we don't see as much representation, right, like there are 1.6 billion people with disabilities in the world what that one in seven ratio is not reflected in our workplaces.
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You have a condition which is retinitis pigmentosa, evidently, you could see when you were a child. So, when when your diagnosis happened, and your vision was being lost, how did your family respond to us support you, I
am actually very blessed to have parents who love me more than anything else in the world. So when I was diagnosed, like I remember initially, I used to walk over things like I had a perfect central vision, but I did not have peripheral vision. So I would walk over things lying on the floor and all that. So my parents thought I was absent minded. They took me to a psychiatrist. Then the psychiatrist said, No, she's fine. So then I went to an ophthalmologist and I was diagnosed. And first few years they couldn't accept. So a couple of years, we just visited every single doctor possible. And then slowly that acceptance came in that retinitis pigmentosa has no treatment available. And at the same time, I was losing vision very rapidly. So initially, in I had to start reading bigger forms, so we started doing the rocks off all my textbooks and bigger font. Then that time I could still write, and at some point I couldn't write anymore. So I had to find writers, but my parents adapted with me. They constantly adapted with my changing life situation in when I came into class 10. I couldn't read and write anymore. And my mom immediately adapted that time. I didn't even know that screen readers exist. So we just devised our own solutions. So we got lots of audio cassettes and Walkman and she would sit and record all my notes onto the cassette and then I would just play them back and forth. So they've been with me in this journey. They've been scared for me, they're still scared for me that I live alone. But they've never kind of held me back. And every time I decided to do something, they came around and supported me
and talking about college life. But you are kind of an island in yourself or did you have friends? Did you interact with them, have fun with them?
In India, I was more of an island and myself, I think, you know, because I lost my sight. I had vowed to myself that I'm going to achieve everything that I would have achieved if I would I have lost my sight. And I was always a bright student even before starting to lose my vision. So, which meant I had to work extra hard. I still remember like, even though I was in Mumbai University, I was working like, from 4am to 11pm in the night, every single day, even if there is no exams, and one of my teachers told me like, Hey, you are not at an IIT, you know, why are you working so hard. But I just had this thing that I'm going to be so good that my future employers wouldn't be able to deny me a job. So I was just driven by that. So I did not have a lot of fun. I wouldn't say I had a lot of fun. And throughout my education, both in the both in India and US, it was a different journey, because there's learning to be independent. So not a lot of fun, but learned a lot. And I love what I do. So I think kind of paid off in that sense. And now, I'm settled in my career. So now I'm having a lot of fun and lots of friends. Excellent.
It's been wonderful speaking to you, and thank you very much for giving the time. I wish you the very best as you move forward, and hopefully we'll bump into each other again.
Yep, thank you so much. Nika.
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