Care of Magical Shippers Podcast Episode 20 - Drarry? Who's Drarry? It's Dreville, Baby! (Draco Malfoy/Neville Longbottom)
3:59AM Jan 17, 2022
Care of Magical Shippers Podcast
Hello there listener, yes, you specifically, you should know that sometimes due to the things we discuss on the pod, it might contain potentially triggering content. But the good news is you can always review the episode descriptions for a full list of the warnings applicable to this episode. Oh, and just so you know, this podcast is rated R for really filthy. It includes adult themes and explicit content. So if you're an adult, buckle up, Gird your loins and prepare to flood the basement because we are going down with these ships
I ship it!
Severus just being like a snail
greasy, greasy- (laughs) yes, he is like a snail. yea, just leaving a greasy trail. Oh my gah
oh no, wait, I came up with that image but I regret it now. I don't like it, can we take that back? I don't want that
slug, like a slug! (laughs)
ohh no, (laughing) oh my god
so, if he's aroused does he get the slughorn? (Megs laughs)
Oh wow. Oh, wow.
Oh my goodness, yea (laughs).
You're on the Cannon ground, I'm up in the crack ship space. Let's start a shipping war, dont care if I get hate, don't like my pairings, Well, then you can hit the bricks. This is my OTP, I'll go down with this ship! I don't care, I ship it. I don't care, I ship it, I ship it. I don't care! (music fades)
Welcome back to Care of Magical Shippers. It's your Harry Potter ship culture Podcast. I'm Nathan.
And I'm also Nathan. (both laugh)
And sometimes I'm Megs and
this week. We are care magical slashes again, because we're gonna be talking about Dreville. I almost said Drarry and I didn't, and I'm happy about that. (Laughs)
It is Dreville this week. And I have some thoughts. Well, we both have some thoughts. That's what we're doing this episode.
So let's get right down and dirty with this straight off. What do you think Megs tell us?
Okay, so, so getting started with this ship. I mean, I had never considered it. I knew that I knew no people who really love this ship. And when I looked into it, I was like, okay, Drarry obviously has its like realm of what it is like there's oblivious Harry. And then sometimes Draco is either like snarky and thriving postwar or he's like, you know, I deserve no happiness and misery or it's like, the, it varies tremendously depending on how the characters are written. And then when it came to Dreville, one there's actually not a lot of works out there. Which part of me is like, that's a travesty. Like why why is there so many of other ships when it's like Dreville has potential to be something like really, like beautiful and wholesome and like, kind of like we talk about healing with like James and Severus. I kind of-
bring them to kind of like be a parallel to that, because obviously, Draco was super terrible to Neville.
um, but what I've read thus far, which I'm not surprised, I mean, enter Matt Lewis, so like, (Nathan laughs) Neville is like hot, you know,
Of course he is
so then Draco, so then Draco either doesn't recognize him, because of course, he's just like, oh my god, you're so fit and you're gorgeous and whatever. And then Neville's just like, Draco? and he's like, huh, what you know who I am? It's like it's Nevile Longbottom,
he became Neville fic bottom (salacious laughter from both)
so it's like, I mean, you definitely get the like, it's usually tagged accordingly, like, oh, pudgy, Neville. Like he's still you know, cute and the little like,
like chubby and whatnot and seen as, you know, attractive in that way because you know, you still are but he's often written like, oh, it's like, oh, he might have like this sexy beard and like abs and like, just this totally, totally different Neville. That of course, Draco is just like vain as he is like falls for him.
Yeah, but from what I can feel out from this ship. It feels as far as what's out there. Like I feel like other things could exist. They just don't yet. It's very kind of like one level. Like, it's definitely a very slow burn with a lot of like,
hurt? like, it's just like kind of hurt. It's not so much angst, I would say it doesn't feel like a very angsty paring. But it's just kind of a journey of them, accepting themselves and then one another and being something good for each other. I don't know.
Like, I, I, I definitely prefer Drarry In that sense, because that is can be like the biggest roller coaster of drama on the face of the earth. Like it's, it's gonna be all over the place.
Yeah, we all know you love drama.
Yes, drama. Exactly. And pretty much with Neville, it's like we usually see like awkward Neville, like, just like or all of a sudden, he's like just confident guy, they also play off the, the fact that he's like the almost chosen one. So
he's also super famous and has the famous life and is living according to that, as well as like him dealing with like his traumas of going through the war, or his parents finally passing or his grandmother passing, and then he has no one. And so he's dealing with a lot of his own grief that he's trying to work through. Meanwhile, enter Draco being an emotional mess
that they're both
two broken people trying to navigate each other. And it's like, you can tell like, neither of you are ready for this relationship. But apparently, you're on that journey together of healing to eventually get there, which I can appreciate that. But I mean, a lot of times when I, when I start a story, it's like, oh, like they met each other in a pub or something. And they hook up and then they go their separate ways. But then they can't stop, like thinking about each other,
or things get really like misconstrued between them. So then there's like some animosity, and it's trying to get over that. And the whole time. It's like miscommunication is definitely huge.
in this in this like, it goes with a slow burn. It's like the assumption that there's nothing there. It's like they had something that could have been something more,
something goes wrong. And then if they had just talked about it, it would have been fine.
but They don't (laughs)
Oh no! This is the sort of fanfic, well, I can appreciate why it's written because
people want to use fanfic as their therapy, and then maybe writing lived experience, you know, I don't want to project that to people.
But let's say that that's what happens.
So we can appreciate that this is why people want to write this stuff. But I also want people as we know, to get that emotionally holistic ending. And
if that doesn't happen, and these characters are left hanging, I feel unsatisfied as a reader,
because I'm incredibly protective of Neville as a character. And I think he deserves his happy ending, we talk a lot about Draco. And you know, whether or not Draco can be redeemed and
which version of Draco we're dealing with today. Really depends on that, I think. But with Neville, there's, there's not really a lot of fluctuation with his character. You know,
you can you can say that there's fluctuation around his appearance, but
Neville is that stalwart guy. He is the, you know, he's the dependable you know, what's the word? He's the, no, My brain is failing me today.
I don't know but, I definitely, I definitely see him as like, he gets his character growth in canon. And then he's there.
you know what I mean?
like, he finds his strength over the course of the books. And in the end, he kills Nagini And it's just like, Damn Neville, like, you know, like, it's just the scared little awkward kid is gone. And all of a sudden, he's, you know, coming up, bam, Flake,
I'm just gonna kill this snake in front of freaking Voldimort.
Here comes his Aladdin in moment, you know, Rickem rockem, Rickem Rake, stick that sword into that snake. (delighted laughter and squeals)
But Nathan, we can't get through an episode without a Disney reference, apparently.
Why would you want to get through an episode without a Disney reference?
I don't, I just think it's really, it's just really funny. (both laughing)
Anyway, Neville has his Aladdin moment
Stick that sword into that snake (laughs)
(laughs) Excuse us for five minutes. While we laugh
I know. I know. I'm trying, I'm trying.
Okay. (laughs) Right.
Anyway, did you think of the word?
uh, No, but I just wanted I just wanted to say, he's just this really dependable guy
who really doesn't move beyond that because like you say, he gets his character growth.
And he is, he does evolve to be his own man. And you know, you have that metaphor of him no longer using his fathers wand, you know, he's using his own.
He's not feeling the pressure of his lineage. He's striking out on his own. And so I I really like Neville. I empathize with him a lot. I think I see some of myself in his canon character. In that he is a bit awkward and a bit nerdy. Just a bit like he's off center for awful lot of when we see him so that when he comes into his own,
and is heroic in his own right, it feels justified.
And that's why I, see, I get this weird moment where I'm like, I don't want him to lose that side of himself
in a relationship with Draco. And Draco
is such a character, especially fanfic Draco,
he says extra that
I don't want Neville to be sort of brushed aside
by this very, very flamboyant, very out for himself
guy, like Draco, I want them to, I want them to come together in a way that feels right for both of them.
And I have a hard time properly conceptualizing the scenario where they're both in it for the long term because, of that
yeah, so what I get out of it is the Draco in this instance, is usually very like is obviously in need of super therapy, like is very traumatized from the war and the things he went through.
He feels like it depends on how he's treated postwar. Whether he's on probation or actually had to go to Azkaban or, you know, has loses his wand for however much amount of time like he feels like he deserves what he's given or that he doesn't deserve anything more. And he doesn't, he can't see anyone loving him like
I think this is why I see the parallels with Severus and this
like all of a sudden, like, he's the ostracized you know, guy who doesn't fit in like he's like, I even though i semi redeemed myself, and Harry Potter spoke for me or whatever. Like, I'm still the kid that was the Death Eater, you know what I mean? Like, I still was that way.
And Neville being the open hearted, forgiving, like how all around happy and positive person that he is, is the first person to show Draco any sort of, like seeing him as a person
versus as who he used to be. And being like, why don't you hate me? I was terrible to you. And it's like, we were kids like, I don't care, like
Whatever like I just, we're adults, and I want to get to know you now. I don't care about what how it was, like, are you trying to hit me now? Are you trying to, you know, like, make fun of me now? Like, no, it's,
it doesn't matter. And so it's really hard for Draco to accept that. And he usually like runs away from it. So like a lot of times, you know, Neville and him have like a really either, like passionate one night stand because they were drunk and didn't know who was who until morning.
And he's like, Oh my God, you're Draco and he's like, Wait, who are you? It's like, I'm Neville. And he's like, What the fuck? No, you're not! what? And, and they either have like a really nice, like, post, you know, whatever, that ends up being something more.
But then Draco panics, you know, like, he's just like, I can't, he's like, No, this was supposed to be a one night thing and stop, you know, like, being nice to me and whatever. Like, he's just, I got to get out of here. And then he can't stop, you know, thinking about him, even though like he had needs his time. And they both need their separate time to grow separately before they
come back together later, and have what they wanted to have together but weren't prepared or ready for
which is like, yeah, the the fic that I'm reading now, essentially, is that where Draco poly juices himself goes to the bar to pick up a guy at a Muggle bar and picks up it picks up Neville and doesn't know it's Neville and they
you know do their thing. And he's like he's like determined to leave, you know, early because obviously as poly juice business, well, it obviously runs out before they wake up and Neville wakes up and sees this blonde dude in his bed and he's like Draco and it just this whole thing.
And they have like this weekend together because they're like, oh, yeah, the sex is great. And then we're also gonna apparently talk about our past together and Draco was like, how is it that you can get me to like, talk about things I don't want to talk about and make me really uncomfortable, but they just they have like this really transformative weekend together. And then of course, after the weekend, I guess like they're in America, so I think
Neville is going to school to a school in Salem and doing some sort of like studies
regarding like magical plants and stuff from Salem area. And then for Draco's probation, he goes to school or is doing something in Boston and has a specific like tailored wizarding thing that he you know, has to follow and whatnot.
So of course, he's like, I have to go back to Boston. And like, oh, okay, like cool get What's your address? All owl you or maybe we can get together next weekend? And Drake was like, no, no, we're not gonna see each other ever again. Like, this was great. This was wonderful, but I just I can't like I'm not ready. I'm just I can't do it. And of course, Neville's just like wants to shake him and be like, No, I had the most amazing weekend with you.
I can see myself with you. And I don't want you to leave and it takes everything in him to not just like push it, but he knows if he pushes it's only pushing him further away.
Of course Draco leaves and you see two years. He's like, look me up when we're, you know, when we go back to England or something like that. So of course, it's two years later that they end up meeting, you know,
by chance, and then things start happening between them. And it's just, it shows like, what is it? Draco goes through therapy, and a lot of it is around the fact that he regrets and misses Neville and hasn't been able to date or be with anyone else because of what happened between them.
And Neville essentially, like he had done some dating but it was the same thing like nothing compared to Draco and them coming back together. And of course, Neville is all sweet and Draco's like still, like really like a scared little, you know, just he can't, he doesn't know how to deal with it. But at the same time, like his therapist is like, like, you should embrace this, like, you can be happy, like or whatever. And
I'm still, I'm still reading it. But I really like that. That it was like they had their heated weekend. And they started breaking down barriers, but it was too much too fast for Draco. Rightly so,
like you would imagine. I'm like, Hey, you spent what, 48 hours together and now all of a sudden, are you gonna be like, yeah, we're in a relationship now or whatever. But it made an impact because Draco had never been like sat down and actually listened to not by his family, not by his friends. It was completely bizarre to him. He couldn't believe Neville didn't want to like kick him out on his arse or whatever. So it was yeah, it's this has been a really good one because it's showing that taste of what they had. They go their separate ways to become and be better selves. And
then together, so I'm loving. I'm loving that one. What's the name of it? I need to- hold on? I had looked it up. Yahhhhh, all this?
It's a long title. Yeah.
Yes. "All This and Heaven Too" by memes girl. I'm pretty sure.
Yeah, that was correct. So yeah, I'm it I'm, I'm well into it. But I think it's- yeah, 100 like 100k. So it's a long thing.
It's been really good, because you get to see Neville's point of view for a while. Then you get to see Draco's point of view. And then you see Draco's point of view going back so then you see how he perceived the weekend and stuff like that. And it's, it's really good, really well written. I really loved that. I I'm really glad to have found this. This was kind of like, it's not obviously to the level of "The Love of a Good Wizard", but I'm really I really am into this fic like, I really like this one
If i'm to picture Dreville, This was written in a way that I'm like, Okay, this makes sense. But yes, like Draco is always more broken. Like he's not snarky, confident, Draco, like he's always on the journey of healing and finding his confidence again.
So it's not like he's extra, like he's not extra in Dreville. So that's where it kind of it shifts with this because he has to be a little bit muted because that's just, it's just how their dynamic has to be versus him just being super snarky and whatever
toward Harry and whatnot. So
be that because we see Neville is like a more sensitive individual versus Harry just being like, shut the fuck up Malfoy, you know, like, you just I don't know. It's just It depends on how this is why we we look into all these characters in different relationships because they're written absolutely different, which it could still feel in character for them. But that's how it works when you're putting them with said person. And it's Yeah, it makes that also makes fanfiction and shipping and all that
so much fun. Because you don't know what you're gonna get depending on who's with who and yeah
Absolutely. But I was gonna say I just wanted to pick up on I'm sure that their fic is exquisitely written and you would be talking about it if it wasn't
so, I was gonna say that first weekend they spent together
that's bound to throw up some issues because, Draco, you say he's not extra, but he does poly juice himself.
And then Neville wakes up with Draco in his bed not knowing it's Draco. He's gone to bed with.
So that's got to bring up some trust issues right there.
I mean, if I were Neville in that situation, that would be a massive red flag. I mean,
you say like, oh, you know, we're getting to know each other over the course of this weekend and breaking
down so many barriers. But how can you get to know someone who deliberately doesn't want themselves to be known? And I know that that's part of the-
well, the reason why he did it is because he's on probation. And if he was seen out doing anything, he would be locked up.
Oh, I see.
So he was like, I wanted to get laid and I can't get laid as Draco Malfoy. (Both desolve into laughter) so, that's why, he's like when I can go out and be Brennan, which is some random Muggle dude, I take a class with (laughs). But he'll go to like,
and that's not illegal?
oh well, I mean, no, of course it's not.
(laughs) So, he's going to
It's because it doesn't have a, he's not doing anything like a glamour, it has no magical signature. He's like, he buys like, I want to say he buys polyjuice potion or figures out a way to brew it for black, you know, black market behind the scenes gets this poly juice so that he can have some sort of, you know, semblance of freedom.
Otherwise, he has to stay like on campus and has this check ins and can only use magic for studies and yeah, blah, blah. So it's not like he can operate or do anything. So it's like, but apparently, there's like community like floo networks, which I think is
really good. Like, I think that makes sense like that different areas would have a station like a floo station for people to travel around,
can't operate. So I'm like, oh, maybe it's an America thing. Maybe it's just something that they do. It's like, oh, so Europe has trains. And that's great. And then we have America that actually has a decent floo system, like who knows? (laughs)
Yeah, I mean, that's entirely possible.
I do still think, though, that the likelihood of him being able to communicate all of this effectively to Neville, in this situation,
the course of 48 hours,
is- has- is bound to be tricky, right.
And this is where I sort of feel like even if Draco is being amped down, and tamping down his sort of volatility,
He's still coming from a place of this thing, this is the sort of stuff that I am working through, or trying to work through. So it's all coming from that sort of self centered,
self aware place. I don't know how much of Neville is factored in here.
And of course, you know, I could see Neville having massive boundary issues initially, to just be like, wanting to help but then feeling like he's also in too much, you know, invested too much after the weekend.
So I don't know maybe I just clearly I just need to go and read this fic.
Yes. Yeah, it's like I like I don't want to give too much away but, but it's convincing. When you read this, you're like, okay, like that's this feels like, true behavior that they would have in the situation. Even though this isn't the Draco I'm particularly drawn to, like, I'm all about self deprecation and being like, needing to be, you know, help to find love, but I feel like he's extra tragic. And
in Dreville- I don't know how to like, it just feels like this. It's just there's the Draco low. And then it's like, we got to push them a little bit deeper, because we have super sweet fluffy, like loving Neville that has to like, you know, save the poor, unfortunate soul and, you know, bring him out of whatever the dark deep darkness. But yeah, but I I think it's really fun to see Draco's point of view. Like dating Neville, because the whole time he's just like, like, can't get over like how nice he is. Or like, how obviously how hot he is or?
like, what was it? when he saw him again after time and He had a beard. And he's just like, Oh, I didn't know I liked beards until now. (both laugh) Oh, man, but no, it's yeah, that's that's been a good read. That's really kind of changed my mind as far as how I could see Dreville working. But of course, it hurt so much for him to be like, no, like, I'm not giving you any information. You cannot come find me. But if we ended up both in England, like you know, see you if I see you sort of thing and Nevels just destroyed because he's like,
seems like he slowly started opening himself up and because of who Neville is. He is very compassionate and caring. And of course, he's gonna invest too much too fast. So that's the thing I see with Neville is like he obviously got past the forgiveness aspect. And as he got to, you know, be vulnerable with Draco like he already was like, on the fast track, whereas Draco was like treading carefully you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah. The see if we're gonna be talking about like empathy, and that being the governing thing about their pairing in this instance, what I would like to see is them poly juicing into each other to live each other's lives. (Megs gasps) They both go, you know what
Yeah! so So Draco gets a break from being Draco and he gets live as Neville for a bit and
gets to get in touch with his compassionate side. Neville gets throw caution to the wind and live as Draco and be this wild mercan.. Not mercantile.
This this wild sort of more unhinged version of himself,
that isn't expected to be the good guy that isn't expected to be that dependable character that we talked about
I would love to see how that work so I think in that way they could be excellent mirrors for each other. And
that's how we see it working.
So, then I haven't found one... but now I want! So, here's fic number one we are asking our listeners to write for us! A body swap fic. Like we had a potions accident or whatever like that random like, Oops, I woke up as the other person were it was Draco and Neville.
Like that would be super it would that would be amazing and hilarious. Can you I just especially if it was in school,
and like imagine school Neville trying to like pretend to be Draco.
Ohhhh my god
And then Draco being... I mean, imagine! like I mean, I could just see like Harry, Hermione and Ron's face, like, what the fuck Neville? Like what? Like, why would you say that like or whatever. (Nathan laughs) And then all of a sudden, he's got no back, like Draco has no backbone, and they're just like, What is wrong with you? It's just, I think that would be so, So fun. And then of course, they'd have to seek each other out and be like, Oh, my gosh, you're me. You're me. And we have to figure out how to, you know, go back and
and whatnot. But I, I am new to body swap fic. But I love that because it does give you that, like you say in inside, look at the life of the other person, which then you get to see what they live and what they go through. And be able to learn from that and be able to understand them better, which I really liked. So then you you could obviously see then them being the other person is slowly why they're falling in love with that person, so yea
because they're literally seeing it from the others perspective.
And a lot of what makes Draco villainous, if we want to call him that,
you know, I don't know if he's really a villain. He certainly does some really awful things. But I
don't know a figure of her goes far enough into the villain camp to be considered a villain.
And anyway, what, part of what makes Draco so dark is that he has this characteristic lack of empathy. And he is so selfish and self centered and spoiled.
And it's when that shatters during the war, and afterwards that Draco has to piece together his character again.
But what better way to do that than by literally putting yourself into somebody's shoes?
Whether, whether or not that's intentional.
And I do think of all the people he could do that with Neville will be the most hilarious
because he's so antithetical
to everything that that the former Draco, the sort of pre shattered one represents.
So the potential not just for, you know, a fluffy relationship between them, but for comedy,
Is astronomical as well.
Yeah, yeah. Cuz you just, it's, it's impossible to imagine Neville trying to all of a sudden be like snarky. Like, he's just like, oh, yeah, Potter's terrible, or whatev, you know?(Nathan Laughs) he's just like, Yeah, hate that guy. I mean, am I Right? (Laughs) like, oh my god, Neville, being on the Slytherin Quidditch team. Could you imagine
all the sudden he just like, they're like, what the fuck, Draco? What happened? He's like, I don't I don't know. It's like he like can't fly. You know what I mean? Can you imagine? Oh, it makes me think of Freaky Friday when it's like the mom
has to play the show. And of course, the daughter comes and is as the mom and is playing in the background so that she can pretend to play the guitar
because she no idea how to play the guitar. Yeah.
(Laughs) He has to pretend he's been hit in the head with a bludger or something.
Yes, exactly. It's just like, I don't know and he has to go to the, he keeps going to the hospital wing and madame pomphrey's like nothing is wrong with you. Nothing is wrong with you. Why do you keep coming back here? (both laugh) Oh, man, so then maybe Neville feels really guilty because then maybe maybe Dracos kicked off the team like could you imagine or he's benched and then
and so takes his spot. And so then he feels really guilty. And then maybe Neville Draco gets really pissed off at him. And so it's just like, that's where the drama really gets, you know, the angst gets intense because Nevels like fucking shit up, you know what I mean?
he's really messing things up for Draco. And it but then, obviously, they have to work through it, you know, in some fashion and whatnot. But I could definitely see that causing a lot of drama, especially from Draco's point of view of like, you're fucking up my life. Like you're fucking up my life and it just like, and then I could see him spitefully, doing, you know, random things. And then just like starting to get really spiteful and doing and saying things that are going to piss off the other person.
And then all of a sudden, that's when Neville starts getting confidence because he's like, You know what? I have, I have nothing to lose here because I'm you. So if I do or say something, like, who cares?
Because this isn't this, In the en- at the end of the day, this isn't my body. This isn't my life. So if you're going to be a dick, guess what, sir? I'm gonna be a dick too. (Both laugh)
And then I love the idea that Draco as Neville is scared of Neville's grandmother, because
she could be she is really aware that it's not her grandson like she knows that something's off.
Oh yea! Oh, she would know, absolutely
yeah, yeah. So I love the idea that eventually they're brought together because the other people in their lives are like something is really off here. So they like shove them into a room and
that's when things get real.
But I love the idea that Draco as Neville is also trying to deliberately do things to, you know, alienate Neville from his friends, but
because they care about him so much. They're like,
no, but no, but really what's going on? Like,
tell us what's actually going on? Like, you don't have to front
And Draco as Neville. You know, he's gonna be like smartass as hell to Snape.
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
You know, like, all of a sudden, he's just be like, Neville look at you. Like, you know, flubbing up your potion again, it's like, well, if you were a better teacher, or something like that, (Nathan laughs) you know, all of a sudden Draco's like, what can I do? And then Draco, you know, Neville Draco the corner is just like what the fuck? Like oh my god, like mortified. And yeah, I could totally see him like, all all the ways. Yeah, all those things
Yeah. Yeah. And I have to believe that the teachers are wise to what's going on or that they know something's off as well.
But they deliberately do nothing, because they assume it's like a Fred and George Weasley thing, like a prank gone wrong. They're like this will right, itself. It's fine.
and when have the teachers, like ever entered into something that seemed off like No, like things just happen. They're like, Oh, yeah, that seems not normal. I'm not gonna do anything about it. (laughs)
Exactly, exactly. So it's perfectly in character for them. I mean, they had to have known that, you know, Moody wasn't behaving quite right, in fourth year, and did nothing. You know, they had to know how suspect Lockhart was
in second year. There's just so much
there's so much there. But I think I love the idea of Draco getting empathy. But it not just coming from a place of, Oh, I've self reflected. And I've meditated.
And I've done away on this yoga retreat. And certainly I'm a better person, you know,
I wanted to come from a place of real hard fought, hard won experience, so that when he, you know, jumps through that hoop or whatever, it's not that Neville is being presented with somebody who is still figuring out who they are. To that degree, you know,
and I think it'll be fun for Neville, like I said, to really push the boundaries of what he's capable of, as well,
when he's not, you know, living under the watchful eye of his gran or of the other Gryffindor's. You know?
having those looser reigns over his life might be really fun for him.
And I love the idea of getting to see him just having fun,
just really letting loose with it. And then then both growing closer because of that.
mmhmm. And then especially seeing how hard Draco actually has it like say he has to go home for you know, for a holiday or something like that.
And then he just kind of has to like he gets home and he's expecting something completely different from what Draco's life really is, like regarding his dynamic
with his parents, and either like they kind of ignore him or they're just like, oh, like just expects the politeness or things like that. And he's just like, wow, I always thought that he was this snobby, you know, stuck up spoiled kid, when really it's like, no, like, he's, you know, either has parents or especially his father, that puts a lot of pressure on him and, and he finally understands that point of view of the reason why he acts out is because he his voice is like, overshadowed, like, in his home environments, like so when he's, he's like, it's like a cry for help of help for him at school and stuff. It's just, like, pay attention to me, because let's say that his family doesn't pay attention to him. You know what I mean?
Like, they just expect him to do well in school, they expect him to behave, they expect him to be polite, and it's like, fun isn't a thing. Like, you know, it's just it's
you know what I mean? So, I just it to be able to do a lot of fun, like you said, have have the humor aspect, but then also see the angsty, like other side of things that they can just full circle experience one another's lives and yeah, and maybe that's reason why his parents like apart from like Neville's grandmother might like be in tune to it. His parents may not notice because let's say in this instance, like they just they don't pay attention to him really, ya know?
Yeah, they're not emotionally available they're not those parents.
Exactly. So yeah. So never could just be like, like, oh, they just they have no idea because they don't try and you know spend time with me or it's like be seen not heard at like a holiday party or anything like that. It's just like, wow, this is really shitty. Like I, like
I thought not having parents was the worst, but having parents that don't care is even even worse than that. You know what I mean? So
yeah, absolutely the the, I'm picturing the scene now in Malfoy Manor, where they're sort of at opposite ends of the dining table.
And there's just a space between them all.
And nothing's really being said, you know, maybe Lucis is reading the paper.
And, you know, narcissias eating a bite of food,
and no one's really talking to each other.
You know, you've maybe got the sound of a clock ticking in the background, but
and then Neville, as Draco is just like this is really lonely in an entirely different way.
And, you know, if I had grown up with like, no immediate friends around me,
it's entirely possible that I could have become a conceited selfish
prick, you know?
mmhmm mmhmm mmhmm
And then meanwhile, maybe Draco as Neville goes with his grandmother, to see Frank and Alice in St. Mungo's? and he's like...
(gasp) Yes, of course, of course, like, because on Christmas or whatever, like there because what was it, it was Christmas at St. Mungo's when Arthur was attacked,
So like Christmas on the at the closed ward or whatever
it was the chapter.
So that's why why Neville went to go see his parents it was like Christmas time. So absolutely, Draco would go with his gran and meet, And then and then that could be really traumatic for him too, because he knew, say he liked didn't know how it happened. But once he discovers it, and knows that it was his aunt and uncle, who were involved in the torture, and essentially mind mush, mushing,
of Neville's parents, like how much that could completely change everything for him and get rid of all of that, like, he's like, I Whoa, I can't be mean to this person ever again, he's lived, you know, through a lot of shit? And yeah, no, absolutely,
gets to see them.
And maybe because he's in a different body. And he knows he can get away with feeling more emotionally vulnerable. Maybe he cries at that moment.
I don't want to get too I don't want to go too down this road. Where we,
where it gets really sad, that's really sad. But maybe, maybe he's able to, like, have that emotional release in that
moment. And that is a way of his character,
getting some closure from feeling that
connection to these terrible events.
You know, that can be the moment where his empathy sort of slides in over the direct experience
of being like, this is what Bellatrix did, you know, this is what Rodolphus did? And
and I don't want to be a party to that. And
why am I defending the behaviors of these people when this is what happens because of it?
So I absolutely see that trip happening. And I see that Neville's gran will see in Neville's face while it's still Draco,
that she's like, oh, yeah, maybe he's not lost to all this after all
mmhmm mmhmm absolutely
I love how we're just writing fic again
that's exactly what I was gonna say. (Both laugh) (Megs starts coughing)
Megs has been temporarily indisposed.
Your listenership is important to us. (sings-Do-do do do do do-do-do do do do).
(laughs) But yes, so, I was thinking the exact same thing. This is amazing. It's Another fic that I want to write that I have no time to write? And I am just like, oh, gosh, that oh my gosh, that'd be so good. Be so good.
Yeah, I, I sort of feel as well, that while I understand that people want to write sexy Neville and him coming back, you know, with Abs and
it's obviously, coming off of the the Matt Lewis thing, you know,
people are being informed by what they're seeing.
And I'm not saying that that's not hot. But I also want
I also want some justice for like chubby Neville, and for chubby Neville to be sexy, because there are different kinds of like sexiness in the world
and sort of feel like maybe Draco falls for Neville when he's older, and
still chubby. And he's like, Oh, I didn't realize that I like this, but I do. And then that's exciting. And he's like, Oh, it's not just that I'm falling for a guy, but I'm falling for somebody that I never thought I could fall for
because he's overcoming that vanity,
He's Overcoming that side of himself that needs to be, you know, pure blood and uphold
quote unquote It standards and all the rest of it. And he's like, No, do you know what I'm going to give full vent to these feelings like this is different for me and new and exciting. And I also want that for Neville. Because that validation, like from somebody like Draco, who has to then backtrack and go, No,
you know, all this shit that I've been giving you all these years, I kind of have to eat humble pie here.
And I think that in much the same way as that will happen with Drarry. He's like, Oh, crap, I have to reevaluate all of this, you know, quote, unquote, Hey, I've been feeling all this time.
It's really love just buried underneath.
Yes, it always is. So okay, so another trope I was thinking about when we're talking about the pureblood thing is, like them both being purebloods something like, um, like marriage law, or forced marriage, or forced
bonding could come into play,
because either it happens on accident or something happens that they, you know, either have to get married or do and then like, of course, his parents are like, well, at least he's a pureblood or, you know, something like that, versus
something like, Oh, I'm with Harry, and they're just like, ah, like, he's a half blood, blah. But it's just another instance of like, well, he might be the most awkward and untalented pure blood we've ever met. But, but at least he is. And so that's, and that's a fun one too like force bonding of the two of them, they have to live and be in the same space and understand and learn from each other, too. So that's kind of where I think some, some other fic follow that have like, forced proximity, you know what I mean? Like, all of a sudden, they have to be around each other for an extended period of time, and how they navigate that and eventually move past everything and then can actually, you know, find a genuine relationship.
Something that they were forced into.
Yeah, absolutely. And I do see that, and I, but you know, I'm obsessed with auror pairings. And I just think
it would be you know, that thing about forced proximity.
I just love the idea of them being assigned to the same beat and having to work together,
hating it first.
And just really begrudgingly being like, Oh, well, I guess I won't hex you because we've got too many other people to
go and chase. Or, you know, I love the the love hate dynamic that can build out of that.
And I really think, you know, there'll be some thing where they're in a building and it's exploding all around them, but they get to shelter.
And then in the quiet moment, then things get sexy. Do you know what I mean?
(laughs) And of course, I picture Draco coming in being like, obviously, Neville, like, how the heck did you become an auror? Because you're terrible with magic. Like, he just assumes that Neville. He needs to like he's like, Oh, great. I'm gonna have to do twice the work. I'm gonna have to watch you. I'm gonna have to deal with the da da da. And meanwhile, Neville comes a blazing like, doing all this crazy magic. And Draco's just in awe. Like he was just thinking that he was going to have to babysit instead of
actually, maybe he was placed under him to like, learn, you know what I mean? Like, maybe
he's actually played to like, you know what, it was a role reversal. He's just like, Oh, I'm here to teach this dude, you know, something or other, and I'm gonna have to take care of, you know, this little puppy. Meanwhile, it's completely the opposite. (laughs)
Yeah. I love that idea that Neville is prodigiously magically talented,
and that he's so confident in his own skin.
I could see Draco being attracted to that confidence
that you know, because it's not with Draco. It's bravado. And it's ego
and it's, it's, you know, it's Oh, it's almost that Gilderoy Lockhartian quality of magical
me you know,
but but with Neville, who has like come into his power slowly, and that's built over time. I could see Draco just being completely taken aback
like literally knocked off his feet.
And I, I love that. I love that moment of surprise for him where he does the double take, and it's like,
oh, hang on. Wait, do I like this guy?
mmhmm Yeah, no. Yeah, absolutely.
I ship it!
I don't mind a bit of emotional turmoil, but I also love it a nice slice of comedy.
And I think, you know, Neville might be magically powerful now, but I still imagine that he'd be a bit like sexually awkward because
he has had very many experiences with people.
So and Draco just wants to take charge of the situation.
He's like, No, we're doing this. Now. You go there.
mmhmm mhmm mmhmmm
We'll just follow my instructions. And you'll be fine. Right?
Yeah. Like Hermione, like we talk about Hermione.
She knows all the things. She's gonna tell you exactly what to do. Exactly what feels good.
exactly what she's looking for. Oh, yeah, definitely.
Yeah. Because if Draco has been obsessing over you, you know, he's been over scenario after scenario
in his head and made like,
itemized lists of, here's everything I want to do, you know?
And I just think Neville would be like Neville's a sort of guy that would go along with it and just be like,
yep, you clearly know what you want to do. Let's,
let's try it and see.
And something that I was actually shocked by going in I assumed with the Draco Neville situation
that it would be primarily bottom Neville, like I just thought because of
the strong personality of Draco and Neville just being like just needing help to, you know, navigate whatever, shockingly,
it's, oh, it's, it's pretty much almost always the other way around. And I'm just like, so. It wish I just like I as I read it, I'm like, okay, I get it. Like it's, you know, same thing. Draco's either like helping him through it. And he's just like, he's just just do it already. (Nahtan laughs) Like, I don't want you doing just sitting there. Like, like, seriously like, I yeah, I think that's, that's super funny, but he's literally I pictured there's one fic what was it? Vilawings had written a short Dreville that I read, and it's essentially essentially they get locked in the greenhouse together like
Yeah they do
they're both professors, like, Draco's the potions master
(makes funny smutty music sounds)
and then of course, (laughing) and then of course Neville is the herbology teacher and apparently there's this snot like this really snotty kid that Neville gets, you know gets in tiffs with all the time and it was the end of I think like all the students were leaving either the end of the year I think the end of the year
and the kids set up some sort of charm to like lock him in for like an hour you know, for whatever
you I don't know something like that.
And so then of course it's they're in the greenhouse. It's hot they're sweating
it's literally steamy in there
it is literally steamy in there and they had been had their friendship and Neville of course it's the biggest point of view Neville in the whole time he's you know thinking about like, oh man like I've I definitely have a thing for Draco but I don't see how anything would happen and then of course you know Draco either it's like well Well, since we're stuck here (both laugh) and so yeah, and I think
so, do you think Draco paid this kid to do it?
Oh, I don't know! that's very true. That's very true. So of course they get it on in the greenhouse and it's it's it's funny because that's exactly what I pictured it was I think it was one of the first I read of Dreville and I just pictured Draco like pounding Neville on the back or on the chest like get on with it already (both laughing)
oh... oh, Draco
It's definietly written to be like you know tiny itty bitty Draco and then there's like you know, either like Husky I want to say
like, I don't know if he was like hairy or not, if it was a bear situation, I cannot recall. But it was definitely like big Neville, small Draco and it just I just pictured him being like get on with, get on with it!
Yeah, Neville is definitely the muscle bear in this situation or
at the very least an otter
and he's thick with two C's. Yeah, I definitely see that. I think as well though, that it annoys me in fanfic sometimes that people confuse top and bottom with
Dom and sub right?
Right mmhmm mmhmm
because you can be you can be a dominant bottom
and still be still be organizing everything from underneath.
You know, do do research at your own peril listeners like (Megs laughs) you
you can find appropriate resources I'm sure
if you want further instruction
on how this works, but I (both giggle) but so when I when I picture this pairing I definitely pictured bottom Draco because Draco is just such he knows exactly how he wants to be treated.
And and yet he's a bit of a pillow Princess like he doesn't
want to move. he doesn't really want to do anything
yea! Yea, he's like I'm gonna tell you how to take care of me but you're taking care of me.
He has this all taken care of. He even like conjures little mints for their pillows, ya know? I could just every detail is taken care of.
And like monogrammed like robes in the bathroom or whatever. Like, I just know, I just know that Draco. Draco is accustomed to a certain kind of lifestyle. And he would not let those standards slip Not least because it's with you know Neverland button but I do. I imagine the line of work where Draco is like giving him the once over going like long button by name lon button by nature. I took this in a really weird direction. Mike just told me today, maybe you want to talk about how sex?
Well, that was okay, apart from greenhouse sex. But that was another like, trope that obviously I see with these guys is Draco being some sort of professor, you know, at Hogwarts while Neville is you know the herbology professor because you just you're like yes, that's that's what where he fits like, yeah, he could end up being an order. But for most of us we're like, oh yeah, does like Professor log bottom, the herbology professor and then maybe Draco is the potions master. And then of course, they have to work together. And so I could see that, you know, going from children who like hated each other, or, you know, had that bully situation, all of a sudden had to be like, we work together and maybe had that like really cold, you know, feeling towards each other. It's like, hey, let's be professional about this. Like, we don't have to hang out like we don't have to. It's like we're just you have to do teacher things. It's like we do and we both be adults, and then we can go from there. And then eventually, either something happens where Neville happens to see something silly, you know, either like Draco do something silly or something happened to him that he's just like, you know, that just kind of gives them a double take of seeing someone who is like smiling or having fun or you know, things like that and then slowly over time, obviously another slow burn kind of sort of force proximity because they're both working at Hogwarts and get to see each other all the time. And yeah, I just I just could see them being like the teachers at odds and eventual, you know, teacher teach enemies to lovers. Yeah. Yeah, professional rivals to love. I don't know. Cuz I could seem like because Neville obviously like gross all the like, like plant based, like pure potions ingredients. And I could see Draco trying to come up with all these reasons why it's not like to the level that he expects or needs when of course devil has done beyond what's normally purchased or whatever, and a pumpkin and apothecary, you know, it's just I could totally see him like, well, this is useless. Like I like you're gonna have to start over and that was just like, oh my god, like, seriously, I just Oh, like it's just yeah, so
he just wind him up to the point of it being obviously, you want to spend time with me for more than my bloody ingredients. You know what is going on?
Or I'm gonna watch over you planting them and how you take care of them. And you know, like you just like, being over his shoulder and then spending all that time together. And Neville is just like what ever Malfoy like Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. Oh, like one day, like Draco finds himself caught in a plant of Nevels. He's like stuck in the brambles hands to be. I'd like Neville has to cut him loose. Yeah, and and so that's how Neville figures out that Draco has been spying on him or whatever. And then they have that moment of confrontation where it's like, Look, I know you've been following me. I know that you do the weird, lucky thing, even though you think I don't notice what is going on. And so then it all has to come out in the wash. And you know, all of these feelings from all of these years just come tumbling out? Of course they do. And you know, and that'll be up to whatever fanfic writer decides to take up this mantle, which you should because this is something that I need to read.
Oh, he just always we're just so needy.
So like, when I'm doing the notes for every episode, I do this thing where I'll be like, I'll make a note for time. And I'll put a little note to say, Oh, by the way, we mentioned that we want listeners to write this thing. This entire episode is one big fic request. Yes. So yeah, yeah, yeah, good luck.
Definitely this the body swap one is definitely going to go on my list of like, I don't know when and how I'll, you know, do this thing. But I yeah, I like so it would we would have posted a buy now. I'm pretty sure because we did the fall exchange, right? Yeah, yeah. So there'll be live. I'm pretty sure I can write this for the person I was assigned. So technically, I could write body swap Draco novel for me, so if it exists, listeners, I will put that link in the description and surprise we just wrote the fact that I'm going to go and write apparently because it's You know, we're what is it? It's middle of October, even though you're gonna get this in like near the end of December.
Yeah. Way, way, way in advance. So, by the time you're hearing this things could have drastically changed. Yeah, you know, who knows what's gonna happen in two months? I know if this fic now exists. This is something that we created. Yeah, you've on. Live on? Yeah. Wait, yeah. What is that the phrase? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's like when Neville in the situation, yeah, we've grown something from the little seed of an idea. tended it? Well, you have to say, Wait, I've come up with the idea. And then you've gone and written it, because
I'm pretty sure that I can. I'm gonna run and look at my assignment, but I'm pretty sure that I can write that fic and I really excited about it. But of course, as I'm going through it, I'm like, god dammit Meg's. This is gonna be so long. Like everything is gonna be so long. I've been working on era said and it's just gotten way out of hand. I mean, it's amazing.
So for all listeners that might not know Meg's has no time whatsoever. And she's just committed to doing this. She just added more work yourself all. I know, the parallel is wholesome. I know we want to see Neville and Draco together. But I also I also don't want you to be like metaphorically stuck in the greenhouse. Getting steaming. Just like, oh,
well, regardless, I have to write a story. So if it's if I want to, if this is fun for me, then I get it, right. Yeah,
I was gonna say you heard it here first, but this is December. So you really did? Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that's what is it? Oh, and I'm not gonna say anything about my eras said work because it's not until January 6, or seventh or something when they finally reveal us. So I did write for it, but who knows which one it is, but obviously, you know, it was, you know, whatever it was what it was. So
I can't wait until we can talk about that though. Because it's my you've written a lot of great stuff. But that is my favorite thing that you've written.
So I it's my favorite thing that I've written to it's I just I was not prepared for it. So I'm really excited.
So thank you for this, you know, retrospective of your work so far. This is this has now become, you know, a meg centric fanfic episode Snapple, it's Dr.
J. Trevor and I was like, forever doing
this just become an entirely different. We need a whole different racing system for this.
Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So what about this, so you know how like, Nevels always losing Trevor? Yeah. What if it's, like, what if he's actually an anime I guess that turns into the toad. Like we'd never see him with Trevor. He's just like, Oh, I lost the toad. And then he I don't know why, why he would say that. But all of a sudden he like he is Trevor the toad.
Oh, and he said the Trevor the toad starts following Draco round and like hops into his bag. And then Draco was like, What is this Toad doing? He was lately plumbed buttons towed because the direction I thought you're originally going to go in was what if Trevor the Toad was actually Umbridge
Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Yeah, cuz like the Scabbers because
Umbridge is always described as like the tow Yeah. as being this toady faced witch and she isn't introduced to us as a character until but five but we see Trevor in way way early in book one. Yeah, so it will be really weird if he just stopped coming to school with Trevor one day.
Yikes. I bet I don't know why that squick Be more than the thought of Pettigrew in Ron's bed bed with nipples Yeah, yeah. I went enter Lockhart emoji
and five times winner of squick weeklys most disturbing smile award.
Anyway, but yeah, or Trevor is like kind of like Crookshanks in the sense of like, we don't know how smart he actually is. And he is like tracking Draco or something and like, right are you doing and learning things that Neville isn't aware that Trevor's doing or whatnot, like, who knows? I don't know. Trevor's Yeah. Trevor's constantly lost. Obviously, he's off doing something like, yeah, he's doing something. So I mean, yeah, novels forgetful. But
yeah, what if he's conspiring secretly to bring Neville and Draco together? And this is Trevor's plan. Trevor can sense that there's a magical connection between the two of them. So he conspires to bring them together by I don't know, deliberately hiding in a broom cupboard that he knows Draco will have to pass so that when Neville finds him, he's like, oh, you know, I know that Neville has no idea that he's being set up but slowly but surely they keep meeting and then over time, it's they just happen to be spending more and more time together. And then Trevor the toad can be secretly very pleased with himself that almost I don't know if this is some weird like Toad said should pay you situation like this.
So now Okay, so to get back to like, I don't know something. I don't know Loki, I guess kind of fluffy but like first year when Draco takes the Remember all you know, and it's like, yeah, I think I'll put this on the roof and flies off. And like maybe he's taunting Neville specifically, like he's literally calling out Neville. But then of course, it's Harry who's the reckless one that goes, but Draco was hoping Neville was gonna follow him like maybe now has been like number one, because you think about it like, okay, Jerry can happen because they're at odds, obviously, drummer and he can happen because obviously, you know, it's it's just the constant story of like, Drake was mean to a lot of people so he could be that, boy, that's mean to person because he likes them for quite a few characters. And Neville is one of those top people that Draco does make fun of and calls out. Yes. And so that very easily could be him, you know, showing that he actually is interested in Neville in a way and maybe, and maybe it gets into like, him not understanding those feelings and being really like uncomfortable and upset and not quite, like confident and sure why he's feeling the way he's feeling because either it's not something he's ever been exposed to or understood. And yeah, no, I think I could see him wanting Neville to come after him. But then Harry does.
Yeah, so in this version of events, Neville isn't taken to the hospital wing, because his broom doesn't fly off the handle. So wanes right? Yeah, yeah. So he's still there a men still able to fly? Yeah, cuz
he's gone. Just kidding. Yeah. Cuz he's like, don't don't even think about, you know, being on the broom. I got to take Mr. Long bottom to the you know, whatever. So yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. So it would have to go a little bit different somehow. But yes, that's why we can write things the way we want cannon divergences loud.
So maybe in the pursuit of Draco like going off with the remember all. That's how Neville injures himself. And Draco feels so guilty about that, that Draco accompanies him to the hospital wing.
And there's this moment of, you know, Nevels been injured. So obviously, he's in pain. But he's also weirdly comforted by having Draco there, because he's realized in that moment that he didn't really mean to cause him harm. You know?
And, of course, then there could be a chosen one, like Harry isn't the Chosen One A you were then all of a sudden Neville is in that position? You know, so like, everything that happened between Harry and Draco was actually happening between Neville you know, and Draco. Yeah, so yeah, so there's, there's that too, because a lot of times it it's interesting, because a lot of fanfic, like, I love cannon driven stories, like I just think it's really fun. But then there's plenty of people who are like, I think we talked about this in the Tomarry episode, in particular, people will write like random stories like Muggle A, you or or Tom's a healer and blah, blah, blah. It's like, okay, you just you wanted Harry and Tom to be together, but they're in positions in a world that doesn't fit like canon, but it's like, Yo, you love her. You like Harry and Tom being together, and you're gonna make it happen in a bajillion different ways. And the same could be said for, you know, Draco and Neville too. Like it just it's people have fun with that sort of thing. And like, Yeah, I mean, a used pitch. Things get way off the rails with Canon. It's just like, Oh, these are the names and the characters that I love and they're gonna do completely.
The thing about that is as well about that au when Neville is the chosen one, I keep going back to that question of why was it hurry? Why was it hurried or not? No because it's always in the books, it's always brought back down to, you know, it was an arbitrary choice Voldemort could have chosen either, boy, but he chose Harry in the end. Yeah, I think it'd be really interesting if they're the Chosen One stuff didn't revolve around prophecy at all, but revolved around like magical capacity at an early age, so Voldemort could sense which of the two children was more was going to be more of a threat to him. And so if we're dealing with Neville being the chosen one, and Harry, you know, taking more of a backseat, then we also have to deal with this image of Neville getting over his own clumsiness and clumsiness, and growing into his own power, because for ages, he's been thinking of himself as like, a secondary imitation of his dad who never lives up to his grands expectation of what he's going to be. But Voldemort, meanwhile, knows that he's this incredibly powerful, potent wizard. And what if it takes someone like Draco, even in a platonic sense to be drawn to that in him? And they, and because they grow together? That's what gives Neville his courage and his confidence and his ability to realize that he can measure up to Tom.
Yeah, so for me when I think of the whole choosing Harry over Neville, it could go two ways. Like I can't remember how much of the prophecy he actually hears, do you know, does he hear the part of them of marking him as as equal?
I don't remember off the top my head and I don't want to say in case I get it wrong.
I, I don't know. Hold on. I've got a I've got a sorry, pause to Google because I need to know. A quick Google it says the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches born to those who have thrice defied him born as the seven month dies, and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, he will have the power the Dark Lord knows not. And I think that's where it ended. And then either must die at the hands of the other. But okay, so let's say he did hear that, like Mark does is equal. So perhaps he reads a Harry is the 31st, not the 30th. Therefore, He is literally at the death of the month to he's a half blood, therefore is his equal, someone that he can see a direct relation to as well as going after Neville means going after a pure blood and he doesn't want to kill unnecessary, you know, pure blood NISS. So I feel like there's a bunch of different parallels that would have otherwise driven Voldemort to go after Harry versus going after Neville.
Do we think if Voldemort had gone after Neville, that the curse would have backfired in the same way that it does? Well, it
all depends on whether Alice, you know, gives herself up like Lily, did you know like he needs that protection of Yeah, yeah.
And then then we get into a complex discussion about what love is. And that brings me back to Neville and Draco, because defining their loving relationship gets tricky. When Draco, like you said, we're presuming that he hasn't been shown a lot of love growing up. So how he finds that has to be either through his friends, or through a relationship later on. And those have to be murky waters for Neville to tread. Because he's growing into a new idea of himself, right? This new version of, you know, this, this confident level this accomplished Neville, and how does he square that against wanting to help Draco when he doesn't know how to help someone who hasn't been shown love because he's been raised by his ground and had that loving relationship or his life. So it's really interesting to me to think about the different ways that can work between them. Because we see love it canonically presented as this really grand sacrificial act, you know, it's what Lily does for hiring and then Harry ultimately does for everyone at the end of Book Seven, and it's this huge tumultuous thing, but like you say, with the Dremel stuff, it really is quite different. That idea of love is like love with a small L. It's the slow burn of like, a slow release thing over time and neither one is really sure. And it's this cautious, slow blooming of something rather than a grand Yeah, we Grand act, you know, to to be spectacular. I like that for them. I think it doesn't need to be this grand gesture, especially not for Draco, who's used to that sort of thing. I like that it's this the slow burn this thing that it's, it evolves every single day. And I want, I want to know, where those characters end up, like much as I love the the, you know, the Platonic stuff in school or their relationship growing up? I want to know, do they finally realize their feelings for each other, you know, when they're always on the beat? Or is it that they realize it much later when they're older? You know, and then they and then all of this other bluff and bluster just slips away, and they're able to, you know, because it's established that wizards live to really old ages. You know, so even if they fell in love in their 60s, that's nothing to wizards, right?
Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. Yeah. Cuz that's mid life. You know, when you think about Yeah, like, goes all the way to, I think, I don't know if it was on, I think it was when I was on the Snape chat, snow myeni episode of like, try it. Like, I don't know, at some point. sometime. I talked about how funny it is that wizards find their true love in school, after school, get married, and therefore have a beautiful existence for 100 years with one another with no problem.
Yeah. So thought is so popular. But I know,
I know. I'm like, I'm like, just the the idea of, of not getting married seems like so wild. So early. Like most of the time, it's like, within the first couple years after the end of the books that a lot of fic. You know, romance happens, because it's like, they're still younger and whatever. But it's also nice to read the later in life stuff of like, Hey, I had one sort of life that wasn't the right life. And now I'm finding the one that I deserve afterwards, which I also really like. And yeah, cuz it's like 40 or 60. You still have so much life left, potentially, like, was it Dumbledore was like, 120 or something crazy, right?
I think he was like, 150. It was really it was it was old. Yeah.
And of course, he wouldn't have died if it wasn't cursed. So it's just like, That's wild. Yeah,
exactly, exactly. And I hate the sort of assumption that's baked into the writing, that if you're single past a certain age, that must mean that you're either dowdy or promiscuous. You know, and you can be happy and single and carefree. And all the rest of it. Yeah. And we talked about this in Bella miney, actually, where the queer coding have Bellatrix is sort of a dig at her, you know, sexual promiscuity and her existing on the fringes of what acceptable to do with kink? It, it is so sort of baked into the code of her character, that part of what makes her morally gray is her, you know, her pawn shop for leather, and then all the rest of it. I do definitely think there is room somewhere in the middle of those ideas to be, you don't have to be married at 17. Yeah, that's not necessarily going to be the best thing for Yeah. And, you know, it is a big, wide wizarding world, there are visiting communities all over the world with different cultural ideas about what is going to be acceptable surely. I don't like that characters sort of tied down to these really archaic forms of matrimonial quote unquote, bliss. Yeah, but just from my own personal perspective, it doesn't seem very enlightened to just have all characters resolved in this way. You know,
so now I have I have thoughts, which are now not related to the ship, whatsoever, but I don't care. It's our podcast. No, because they live so long, like potentially past 150 years old. Do they age the same? Or does magic keep them younger? So like at 40 they still look like low 30s You know what I mean? Like versus like, you know, like, I mean, otherwise would have made it wouldn't make sense. Like, all of a sudden you just be this completely, unfortunate, wrinkly, whatever, by the time you hit 150. So I know we kind of write them in regards to like, oh, okay, if they're 40 Then they're 40 but it's like that's how muggles are but if you have magic your body probably He behaves and ages differently because of it. So I would imagine that at 60, once again, you could have been mid 30s. Because of how how time affects you.
Yeah. Okay, so then that complicates the movie casting again, close, because they should be so much younger than that. Because magic is keeping them radiant, and youthful and effervescent. And wow, this is a whole different kind of work. We're just going with us today. I just, well, you know, if you're here and listening to us by now you're you know that you're not really here to listen to one specific topic. No, you're to listen to us talk and laugh. And that's what we're doing. So I feel like we're still on brand clothes.
Nathan, do you remember that? The James Ollie Severus episode when we made a really intense outline, and then we never did ever again.
Because that was the episode after we'd gotten so much amazing listener feedback. And one of the things was we really love you. But yeah, maybe a few less tangents. I feel like we've taken that feedback and gone. Okay, we see you and appreciate you. We're going to make you feel validated for one episode, then just move on.
But it did kind of set the stage for us being able to stick to the ships, which I think we do. For the most part. I think this episode has pretty much been pretty dreadful. So I think we're doing pretty good, but I just think it's really funny. This,
this episode is certainly a lot more durable than our Wolfstar episodes. About Wolfstar. Mm hmm.
I just that's too too long as episodes that were barely Wolfstar I'm still so embarrassed.
We're gonna make more holsters. It's an excuse. I did it deliberately. Because I want to come back to them. Yeah. Because I love the ship so much. You see, this is what happened with this was I love the ship so much that I'm worried that if I start talking about how I really feel about them as as the ship together, then eventually I'll have to still be a point where I have to stop talking about it. And I don't want to get there. There's there's so much to say. So i i I'm putting it off so that I don't have to finish that conversation. Because a bit like Tomarry I carry a little part of Wolfstar into every reading of every ship that we do. And I because it's just so it's everything. It's that mix of wholesome and sexy and everything in between. And I just I feel like I'm setting the stage at some point down the line when we're like, you know what? We can't think of an episode. Oh, we didn't do Wolfstar properly, accidentally on purpose. To talk about it again. evil plan laughs
Oh, man, both Wow, we managed to go. So I every time I'm like, how did we go? An hour and 20? Like, I go in and I'm like, Okay, are we gonna have enough to talk about and every time it's like, Why do I feel? Why do I think that it's gonna be an issue like, week. I'm like, why am I concerned?
If there's one thing we don't have a problem with. It's talking. This is, uh, this is why we did this. Because we were like, we love to talk. Yeah, let's talk about Harry Potter.
I think the only the most recent one that actually was short was the what was it? The Luther the Luther fic one. Just because we went in being like, fuck, we read this like, two three weeks ago. What the hell was this story? And we still made it through like we powered through but it still ended up being like 15 minutes by God, I'm like, the whole time we're like, yeah, this fic to what happened?
Yeah, cuz we read it like three weeks ago. Like, yeah, we can talk about.
We're so excited about it that we're like, yeah,
don't get me wrong. I love that thing. But after a while, it was just like, what happens again?
What am I? Up? What what, what of this? Did we talked about and right in the previous episode versus what is actually in this fic? Yeah,
yeah, everything all blends together. It's a beautiful smorgasbord of ideas. We're not just sure where they belong. So you know, after a while, it becomes tough to put everything back in its appropriate box. And we want to make sure that we credit authors and creators wherever appropriate to be like, Yeah, this was your amazing idea. But you know how terrible I am with Calvin. You know how when we get two weeks Sleep brothers, I can't do it, I can't do that. I have a really hyper specific knowledge of certain things. But then then I lose really important details. Like, I'll just forget what Harry's middle name is one day.
So even though we just got finished doing a flash pairing, and we're usually good about swapping everything up, apparently, I'd need to keep the slash train going. And we're going to be doing a next gen pairing which we have yet to get into next gen. And I chose and Nathan was like, I guess
this is the first chip This is the fish. Have you ever presented me with a nose like we're doing what? I know these characters. What are you doing?
I mean, to be fair, I've read like one fic. So I have a lot of I have a lot of things to catch up with one
fee. Bread but one fee fic. Only for you.
Yes. So the reason why I went with this pairing was because I thought it was too early for us to jump full into doing like Scorpius because that is like the top. You know, the Drarry pairing? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So we're gonna be doing Jedi, which is James serious slash Teddy Lubin. So this so this is new to both of us? Um, okay.
I don't know who these characters are. We'll, we'll find out. We'll find out. I mean, I look I know. They get a train at the end of Book Seven. Blog. I know that they feature in curse child. feature in that thing that we don't like to talk about? Because yeah, yeah. Although, you know, although, you know, school buses cabin and that's fine. So do you know, do you know what if you love it, I will learn to love it. Let's let's go do that thing. Yeah,
so we're gonna be doing another slash guy because I yeah, I love it. I'm excited. I ready to talk about it. Even though it'll probably be a couple of weeks before we can talk again with the holidays and everything.
Yeah, that small little caveat. Yeah, yeah.
But anyway, so yeah, thanks for listening to travel. Finally, after we I think we bumped it three times. Is that what happened? Yeah,
we will record an outro saying it's gonna be drama next so often, that I started to doubt myself. I was like, Wait, we just, we're just in the business of gaslighting listeners. It's going to be traveling next time guys.
aware it's next time we swear. Oh, gosh, no one's gonna believe us ever again. But yeah. So that's what we're looking forward to in two weeks from now. And yeah, we hope you really enjoyed this one. And yeah, let us know your thoughts on how you feel about travel and whether anything that we said made sense to you, or what your thoughts are? Or if you have any racks. I mean, like I said, there's not a lot of a lot of stuff out there. Or if you have ideas as far as prompts or things like definitely, you know, especially hit us up on Tumblr, Care of Magical shippers, you know, send us an ask or a message. And we love to that's the best way for us to you know, get it get in contact with which is great. So,
yes, or if you have a lovely voice, and we're sure that you do. And you want to just talk to us in the form of voice notes. Hit us up on our Telegram, which is
Care of Magical shippers.
Podcast Well, I wasn't sure if you were magical ship pod but no carry? Yeah. Because then you can have that like instant wrap party with those. You don't want to be if you're like, No, I don't want to get in touch because I don't want them to use my voice on the pod or whatever. Don't worry about that. We won't use your stuff unless you give us permission to exist. So So just like when I'd like to think we're nice people and we don't bite, you know, come talk to us. We'd love to hear from you.
Absolutely. What is it? Are we gonna do the windows? That's, that's the best thing that I can think of that we did as a sign off was the windows. What was it shut down?