Library Board Meeting - December 14, 2020
4:57PM Dec 21, 2020
Okay, my watch says seven o'clock. Welcome, everybody. Happy Holidays. Thanks for attending this special board session, special holiday board session to take care of the month of December. And with that I'll call the meeting to order. in deference to the call statement, I understand there's nobody from the public to be heard. So we'll move past item two in the agenda and go to item three, approval of minutes from November 16. Meeting. Do I have any questions or concerns to address before we move to approve the meeting? Kathy,
I found there was a, at least in the copy that I received that what appeared to be a typo in the it was in the section for the library directors report, Part C. It reads at nine Wi Fi hotspots can now me checked. So just public needs to be changed to be
Oh, since that was the PDF version, Nancy. Should I the doc version and change it and send it to you?
Yes, that'd be great. Thank you.
And then do we need to amend the minutes to reflect the online vote that we did.
And we'll talk about that when I get to the Empson fun thing, because we might we might end up just voting again tonight, because we haven't released the check yet. So okay,
that's fine. Thank you,
then we have, we have new wording for the group to look at. So when we get to that, then maybe you can just roll it back in or make it part of this night's minutes. So with that correction, Do I have a motion to approve these minutes? Nobody wants to step forward and approve these minutes.
I'll move to approve the minutes as amended. Second,
I'm gonna miss you, Katie.
She's here today. I'm saying I changed my mind.
Thank you. All in favor, raise their hands. I believe that she nanus. So with that, consider the minutes for the November 16. Meeting approved. Okay, then on to our normal items. Nancy, you have the floor.
Okay. Hi, everybody.
we are pretty busy as I was kind of chatting before we started the meeting. Um, our curbside numbers continue to increase. And I think our previous curbside had been around 300. Now I think our average daily curbside is about 375. So we're up at more than one per minute. And the hours were open. And I think last Monday we hit over 500. So um, Monday morning and Wednesday at one since Wednesday's are late day are crazy. And a lot of folks waiting to get their stuff. So people have really caught on to putting things on hold definitely. And we have added since we don't have other folks in the lobby, we have a mishmash of added shelving now that we've put on because our whole shelves were overflowing and all of us shift those shelves just about every day. Our holds limits are still at 10 per card. At this point, we will increase that if we can later but right now we're just absolutely overflowing with holds. So even though we've had a few patron questions about why museums just reopened and why we haven't reopened to browsing, we have a whole different situation going there. Um, you know, they are just they just have folks that are browsing exhibits and not touching things and, and mingling and checking things out. So we our plan is to stay with curbside as long as we're still in the red zone. And then we'll room you know, once we once things improve, we'll certainly look at at opening back up to browsing and we are seeing some computer users we do have some short stations that are available by appointment and those have been used fairly frequently. And we have a fair amount of patrons who are taking advantage of be able to print remotely from their devices so helped a lot of people do that and For those folks who need to use computers for a longer period of time, for job applications or other applications for assistance, or just just longer than we have available
we have now through the cares Act funding, I think we have 223 of them. So far, Chromebooks sitting in our lobby, waiting to be cataloged and putting in the system. All 89 hotspots are in the system. So very shortly, we'll be able to check out Chromebooks from not just the library's location, but we'll have some located, I think the housing authority in some located children, youth and families, and we're figuring out what goes where at this point, the library will be cataloging them all and keeping track of them. But we do have some that will be located in other locations, and we have charging carts that go with them. Which is all linked to providing service during pull them through that we also have up and running. Or when patrons return a couple of secure phone charging stations, we've had some issues in the past with folks coming in and not having any place to charge their phones sticking the money in any wall out that they could find walking away and having the phones walk away. So we have an upstairs version and a downstairs version of six cute little lockers that people make an electronic code for stick their phone in on the chart on the charger, and they can lock it while they use the library, come back and retrieve it. We've also received 20 something I think it's 21 play that play away lunch pads. Those are like smart tablets that do not require Wi Fi on a wide variety of topics. They have pre loaded software on everything from Preschool Learning to a CT and LSAT practice tests and those can be checked out and use. Like I said, with no Wi Fi connection. We've also received some rolling on rollers screens that will be used to better separate our computers upstairs once we reopen to the public up there. So a little a little extra barrier assuming that COVID will be a risk for some time. Another COVID act and other cares Act funding item will be receiving soon is a much better color copier printer scanner. We've been working with city purchasing with Pam and purchasing has been amazing. We had been leasing copiers for years and years and years from from a business and paying to lease the copiers and they came in emptied all the money from the copiers. And we had questioned that before Pam was working with us so that we don't plan to make money off of our copiers. But we plan to at least Break Even so, um, copiers actually taken quite a bit of money. And we were not recouping any of that previously, but we will be having new color copiers, printers, scanners, you can you can scan materials directly to your email, etc print things. And they'll have good capabilities. And people can also print to those from home and pick things up curbside funding is from a company called mo Zio. And it's text a librarian. So I've used this product before and if we talked about this before, but it is just another way for people to attend ref reference service and to contact and chat with the library. So pretty soon there's a there's a chat program, you'll have a a probably a five digit number that you'll use to type into your phone. And you can text real time with library with librarians and get information about your account reference service anything by chat. So it was popular A while back in libraries. And I think we're seeing a resurgence in popularity of the texting programs. A lot of folks now would know my kids never call anybody if they can possibly text them. And a lot of folks do. And also, a lot of people do have a phone where they might not have complete internet access. So what are some things that are piled up in our lobby that we'll be instituting? Although not we're working on year end everything we're always you know, better balancing our budget. I'm trying to spend as as much of everything as we can without going over. So we have our insurance and our internal departments that all have their wish lists. So I tell people at the end of the year you know, here you go stop spending on this but but compile your wish list and we'll see what purchases we can cram in your instant working on your own staff reviews and working on our year and salary spreadsheets. At this point. It looks like
the market rate has not moved for the next year. But we are allowed to bring employees who are below 101% of market rate up to market rate and we are allowed to nominate a Small amount of our staff for possible exceptional pay. And it This was the toughest time to figure out who should be given exceptional pay. Because honestly, there aren't any of our staff this year who didn't go above and beyond. I can't even tell you what people have done this year. That's, that's above and beyond. And, you know, we have staff working, doing all kinds of jobs that are nowhere even represented at all in their job descriptions, etc. and doing an under less than, less than optimal circumstances. So,
that's most of what I was, like I said, was just about your end frenzy of, of trying to get everything in by the deadlines. So the last day we can pretty much spend any money for this fiscal year is, is the 18th. So we're looking at having to get everything into for Friday.
Thanks, Nancy. Oh, one one observation. One question. When you look down to read your notes, we lose your okay. Terry,
I'll help I'll hold them up here.
I lose it anyway. And then, Mike, my question is, is all the additional electronics you've been able to secure? Is that from cares? Or is we're in budget?
That's from cares that funding?
Right? And then you don't have to pay that back in next years?
No, we don't. And you know, the the object of it was really trying to find some expenditures that would really do something to help. not eliminate, but close that digital divide. And, you know, we always talk about the digital divide, but we've never seen anything like what COVID will do so. And, you know, normally, we definitely have the haves and have nots with technology and the people who are more technically proficient than others. But now we have, you know, entire segments of the population that I completely cut off, that don't have internet access. So you know, the gaps only widened. So trying to look at more and more ways to communicate with folks who don't have, have Wi Fi or internet technology, and also other ways to keep in touch with and provide services for people who do but who are stuck at home. Well, that's what we were looking for.
Any other questions for Nancy? Sophia?
Yes. And see if you may have touched on this. And apologies, if I missed in an earlier meeting, I noticed on the website that you had an update about prospector?
Yes, we do. That's, that's something that's not the best news for us. And we are not going to be using prospector during this next year. And that was a consortium wide decision. And we probably could have squeaked it out on our own, but we you know, we're in there as a consortium. And their, their costs
high. And because we are composed of five separate libraries, even though between all of us we have what eight branches, I think we paid triple the amount of Denver Public of Jefferson County, etc. So we pay really high costs for prospector. So unfortunately, it is something that we had to let go this year, we have a lot of patrons who use it. But luckily, we have a really cracker jack, I ll service through our libraries that we think will be able to accommodate our patrons through interlibrary loan that we've beefed up, we've moved a couple of the folks that we're dealing with prospector items over to assisting with interlibrary loan. So the difference for those who don't know what that is, prospector basically gives patrons at quick access to materials from libraries in Colorado and in southern Wyoming as well. So it is pretty quick because it's a smaller geographic area. We've always said interlibrary loan, but we're expanding that to cover this year, and we don't have prospects for an interlibrary loan can come from anywhere in this country, and it actually from other countries as well. So unlike other library systems, we're not charging for interlibrary loans, you can really get pretty much anything from all over the country. It just it'll just take longer than prospector did. Because it won't be a local delivery.
How much would you guess came from prospector? What's that? Mike? What's that, for much of your borrowings came from?
I'm trying to think how many things we borrowed last year, I think we bought about 6000 items total. There prospector but some of those items are available, you know, elsewhere, too. So we are capping we have some folks who who really really are power users a prospector and and you know, those folks would get in just tons and tons and tons of materials and then kind of look through it or not pick up part of it too. So that could be a little problematic to have step is being delivered. Back and forth, and the people, you know, really don't want it. So we're hoping that people will be a little bit more selective if we're putting some limits on this year. And I think that we'll have maybe a little leverage to do a little bargaining in the future potentially.
Because we are by far a net lender, we have a really excellent collection and we lend out by far more than we borrow. So, you know, hopefully, everybody's financial picture in our consortium will, will improve to the point where we'll be able to have it back at some point because it is a good service for our patrons.
Thank you. Any other questions for Nancy? Okay, friends report.
my report is on the board meeting that occurred December 2, via zoom, membership and friends is reported at 470 members. We were reminded that patrons are able to purchase from the lobby bookshop in the gift shop using either cheque or cash, and then they use the curbside delivery service to pick up their item. And this is all occurring now during this restricted access in December. If you want complete instructions, just visit the friends website and they tell you exactly what to do. you contact them to make sure the item is there and then bring a check or cash to the curbside pickup. The sales were reported for October were $1,419.15 in the bookshop. They had sold $374.36 on eBay or online sales. And $59.90 at the gift shop. The Treasurer Lynn Newberry reported transferring $34,000 out of one of their CDs that was up for renewal the end of November. And this will provide them operating funds for the friends until the book sales can resume. The board will be evaluating a membership and donor database called Wild apricot on a 30 day trial. This is this month, the product they're looking at it will provide member and donor management email and letter communication an integrated website development and also a store function. So they will evaluate it and a decision to to purchase it would be made via email.
Kathy, are you are you aware? Catherine that your notes are up on the screen as you edit them. Is that supposed to be Kathy's report?
Sorry, I must have chosen the wrong tab. I made it harder.
Thank you. Okay, Kathy. I'm sorry. All right. That's all right. Yeah.
The next meeting is scheduled for January 27 2021. And that's all I have.
Any questions for Kathy? Okay, city council liaison report, please.
Thanks, Mark. Real quickly, just building on the last part of Nancy's report. or part of me she's important terms of the number of Chromebooks and the electronics you mark you were asking about on the other side of town LPC. My my communications in next slide are really dedicated to ensuring that we have no families, especially with young children in Longmont without an activity. So kind of parallel to what what Nancy has been able to do, why my parent communications can identify families, at least eight of them just recently, with children between the ages of zero and five, who have never been connected to the internet. those families have 17 children who are now connected and can take advantage of those Chromebooks or the other the other electronics that the library is able to provide. So you know, big picture. What, what's happening during the pandemic, as difficult as it's been long term, there going to be a lot of people much better served, I think, in the long run, because of the innovation, and how we've deployed both human and digital resources under these remarkable circumstances. So that just a bit of good news, right in a year, a lot of bad news. So here are some things that are going on you tell me if you have questions about them, and I'll come back to Boom. He's the kind of out of the ordinary things. Federal Court two days ago, just missed a suit that was prohibiting progress on the construction of the chimney hollow chimney hollows reservoir, part of the firming project for the windy gap. initiative. So if you have questions, I'm happy to come back to that, number one, number two. We get it. We get information from Jim golden, our Chief Financial Officer, but we get reports all the time on a regular basis in terms of sales, tax revenues, US tax revenues, what's happening in terms of the city's financial situation. And it's a pretty interesting story, I think, how effectively Jim and his staff and then all of the city team has managed city resources during this pandemic. We as we approached the end of the year, it's an untold story about how good how how effective the stewardship has been, and how effectively the city staff has shepherded resources. That gets us to the end of the year, in much better financial shape than I think anybody imagined we might have experienced back in March. We have an item on the on the on the agenda tomorrow night. That is a letter to weld county commissioners in a resolution that goes along with that. I don't know where we'll end up with that tomorrow night. But that's on the agenda. coming after the first year are short term rentals ordinance that a number of people have some interest in we've got an open forum on January 19, this group will have met again, I know we won't have that again before January 19. Well, we Yeah. So if you're interested, or your friends are interested, we, we passed on the open forum in in June, because we could, we could only do it virtually. And we decided that we would go ahead and take a shot at doing a virtual open forum on January 19. Probably one of the two, the two most fun council meetings of the year, are the open forums. So I'm glad that we have a chance to go back to the open forum, even if it's going to be virtual and see what kind of interest we can generate. The last, you know, kind of what's coming in the new year would be among a number of capital projects that we're going to start to see the construction on railroad crossings and the creation of quiet zones to the city. So you're interested in any of those follow up? If not, those kind of things on the horizon for the council. That may have some impact on you.
Any questions for cultural water? You get a break tonight? Okay.
Well, I'm not I might weigh in on some of these other items.
Well, that's fine.
Then let's go with if there are no further questions, let's move on to all business. One of the items that came up between meetings was a request to spend some money on the from the Epson Fund, which the board had agreed to. But for purposes of, I guess, proper stewardship of those assets and to notify the public, we were going to formally pass the request tonight. And if not, Nicole, if you can put that up for everyone to see, Kathy went back in her notes and looked up how we said this sort of thing in the past. And all I did was copy her information and put it out there for all to see. So I'll give you a second to read through it. And if anybody has any questions or concerns, please, please raise your hand. Otherwise, I will move to get a motion to approve.
Kathy, Nancy, I just want to confirm that we have the correct number of encyclopedias.
This is correct. And this is exactly the wording of the last motion and it is 19 $198. Okay. One is for one is for the children's section and when it's for the adult section.
Okay, very good. So with that, can I get a motion to approve this formally at this meeting? Where's Katie? I need that motion.
Nobody wants encyclopedias.
Okay, Kathy. Sorry. I was gonna I just like Kathy do it because she wrote it up.
Kathy, that's your motion? Yeah,
I move that the Board recommends that the mayor's signature be authorized on one emson check in the amount of $1,998. To World Book encyclopedia for the purchase of two sets of encyclopedias.
Go I get a second.
Very good. All in favor? I think that's everyone. So um, would you please kindly note, Katherine, there was unanimous support for that language. And could you get that language please, in minutes?
Can someone send it to me in text? Like in actual form, I can copy? Is there a way to email to me? This is Nicole. Yes, Catherine, I'll get it over to you is that that's
okay. Mark that I sent it. Yeah, that's fine.
That's fine. You bet.
Thank you, Nicole.
Of course, guys.
And then I thought it would be good for the board to know how much money was in the pension
fund. Okay. Well, there's, there's quite a bit of money in the emson fund. Not all of it is available at this point. But the total market value according to the last report that I had, which was September 2020, we get you know, nice thick reports. With all the investments in there is $2,827,119.86. That's it. That's as of September and that's the last we get quarterly reports. So I can tell you what the cat the cash equivalent is about 21 is $21,069.43. It has 1,000,007 and equity, little over 1,000,007 in equity, fixed income taxable amount is 1,012,002 91. Real Assets. 69,005 17. So I can send that out to people.
Yeah, please, at least to Katherine, so we can get it in the notes.
I'll send her the exact numbers.
Okay, wonderful. Any other questions with respect to the option fund decision or the discussion around it?
I'm just curious what it is.
Okay. Nancy, you want to explain that?
I don't know, the whole history of this particular fund. Actually, you know, most of these are just long since established endowment funds that we have. And some some of the funds that we have were established for specific purposes. And some of them were just general. So
so my my recollection, and in those that have been on the board for a while can correct me, but I, I thought it was an endowment from quite quite a while ago, and it is at a modest beginning. But because it was never touched, and in in truth was lost within the city's accounting records that it prospered, and it had done quite well. And it seems like it's continuing to do quite well,
it is doing quite well, you know, what, from what the reports look like it is doing quite well. And we do actually, they've changed a little bit the way that some of the proceeds are distributed. So we do actually receive checks, which we turn around and you deposit with the city cashier. Monthly. But before apparently, I think, you know, to my understanding, it's similar to what you, you just expressed that you'll for a long time, they never saw the checks, there were direct deposits into the fund. And it kind of disappeared and grew. And and I guess folks thought that it would not be as much as it was because it was quite conservatively invested. But it's done very well. So
what it was originally it was set up to be only used on reference materials. And so over kind of the years that kind of been like, well, what is a reference material? And can we use it for XYZ? Can we say that, you know, so that's also kind of earmarked for that specifically?
You know, that was really typical with this type of funds. We have one fund that that like this was set for reference, and then we have another fund which we might be confusing. Mark. The other funds that I think grew more than people thought was originally set up for materials for the visually impaired. Right. And, but, you know, over time when someone says something up, but then it's 40 years later, and you know, things have changed you There used to be really specialized equipment in libraries that was used for the visually impaired before we had the building. Just to turn on a computer and change the font size, that's basically what what the expensive equipment did. So, yeah, a lot of these do change over time. But it's always a really nice blessing. When you find out you had more than you thought you're in some of these funds. And what was the name of the other fun? Yeah, I'm
trying to now I'm totally blanking out. But it'll come to me as soon as I mean, definitely remember the purpose of it.
So there was I think, at one point, probably prior to Katherine coming on the board, some discussion about going back to the emson, folks and seeing if we could get more latitude.
I think that was the other fun. The other time that we were talking about that was for the visually impaired. But well, I'll sort them out. It did.
It did make me wonder when you were saying like, how do we define it? Because, like you said, some of these materials that you've been able to get through the cares act are kind of a one time only purchase, probably. But something like one of those tablets that you were describing sounds like a reference material, right? I mean, there might be so there's a pretty loose definition
of reference material. And also, you know, obviously, when these funds were established, you know, libraries still had giant sections filled with reference books, which now most libraries have, you know, a teeny weeny little set of shelves with reference materials if your public library, because you can get so many more things online, so. So it just
makes me wonder if we end up having to replace any of those, you know, they'll probably be some wear and tear on those kind of things as they get loaned out. That might be it will be to
where you keep most of the reference stuff in house. Right? It's all
I'm talking about the tablets that are pre loaded, like learning material.
Yeah, that was those will be. I'm sure, you know, absolutely before we know it, just like everything else. But I will say our biggest challenge with this MC fund request was, was trying to find where the MC fun checkbook was, because we haven't used it since Debbie was there. And we found it very safely locked in the bottom of one of our three safes. Finally, after looking everywhere, high, low, and every lock door, we're like, it's in the safe, it's in the state we never go in so
well, Councilman waters, hold your ears on this. But there was when we were talking about this before there was concerned that with this amount of money that would be rated by the city for the general fund. And we were we were concerned that then that that resource would be lost to the library. And so far, we've been lucky in that regard.
Now we'd we'd like to read it, as we talked about before, we'd like to read it for you know, and finally now that we're past, or Well, we are past dealing with mostly COVID all day, every day, we would like to reserve our electronic sorter search and installation. So that is something
board at that time. We'll look forward to getting that request.
We're checking this year, Mark.
I'm with you. I would
mark I think it was the most you're fun mode. Your family was
And my recollection The last time I checked, I think there was like $570 of spending authorization? Yes, I'm in the concern was that if you actually if this board exercised that option, the city would then pull back that amount of money. Right. That's the way it would be raised. Right. Right. I I have to tell you, I I seriously doubt that would happen. I know this group. And I think they're Friends of the Library. And I personally would get a great exception, I would I would make it so painful for the city to do that. They never want to do it again, I can promise you. But that that money while the fund was dedicated for the purpose of servicing the visually impaired, it was my understanding from my conversation with Jim, that this board had the author's the authority to to redirect that. And, you know, I couldn't be that we would go back and when you need to make a recommendation to Council, but I don't think so. I don't think there's anybody left in the Moser family, to go back and confer with this. This like, this has been, you know, for so long. So I do think you have those degrees of freedom. And I'm happy to follow that up in any way that might be helpful when the time comes. But But you bet you've got that in your back pocket. Right. And on behalf
on behalf of this order a future party, it might be good to know that if we were to pull that trigger, that we wouldn't legally complicate the life of the city or the library. Specifically, if the board was to take that sort of action.
I'm happy to follow that up if you want me to.
Yeah, if you don't mind if unless somebody else has some objection to it, I guess it's it's only in our best interest to know what our prerogatives are because this board won't stay the same, nor will counsel stay the same and the dynamics can change and you'd like to have some thoughtful management on the distribution of those monies.
Oh, pull it up.
Really, that would be really helpful as we have several ideas for, you know, how we could make some space planning and technology improvements to our current building, to render it a little bit more modern, but it's 30 year old self. So
very good. Well, let's, let's do as as suggested, let's understand what our prerogatives are. But I'm sure there's plenty of needs out there, and how we how we thoughtfully meet those needs will be a challenge for this sport, and any others? So that's all I have on that unless there are other questions or concerns. Okay, the next item on the agenda was a follow up question to the council man's question on the role of his liaison ship or whoever else would come on, on council as a liaison? Did you get any additional comments,
or mark, I got your input, and I appreciate it. And I'll just say, again, to the members of this board, there is nothing in writing. There's no suggestions, there's no job description. There's no checklist, there's not a ton of bullet points, there is nothing when people come on to the council that that would inform how they approach the role of liaison. So you're told, or you no assigned, you're going to be the liaison to fill in the blank for the library advisory board. And then you make it up as you go along. And maybe that's okay. But we certainly don't, we don't say that to you. Right to the members of boards and commissions. We've raised the standards the council has, we've set attendance requirements, we've created the low more rigorous interview process, even though it's only five minutes for, for most boards and commissions. Now it's 10 minutes longer for some, and there are higher standards for getting applications in time and those kinds of things. But as a council, we've created more accountability for you and never addressed. So what's our role and all that in terms of making certain what we're doing adds value to what you do? So, you know, I pride I raised this question with the council and there wasn't much interest. But just for the boards and commissions on liaison to, it would be helpful to know. And if And to the degree that any of that's generalizable to other boards and commissions, I'd be if I got feedback, I'm going to share it. And and maybe others would take a look at what it is that we should be doing. And if you're making it up as you go along, and it's okay, that's fine. I'm not looking to criticize anybody, I just think we ought to have a, a at least a set of standards with which to start when people come onto the council to say, here's what, here's what you deserve from us. Because we're pretty clear about what the city deserves from you. So.
So is there anything? Has there ever been anything? Or is there anything in the works by this council that says we want to address this liaison relationship across all boards? Like
I was asking what I was suggesting we do. And and there wasn't much of an interest on the part of the rest of council. Okay. So
and and on your other ports? Have they produced anything useful at this point that we could take advantage of? Not yet. Okay.
But I have a meeting Thursday night, I haven't had a chance to ask this question yet. of the of the neighborhood group leaders and the long line Economic Development Partnership. I have asked that question. Don't have any feedback yet.
Yeah, I just have a because prior to you, on this board, we actually didn't really hear I mean, delay liaison, of course, came to the meetings, but they didn't participate that much in the meetings. They were mostly just there and if we had questions that we had to be more proactive about it and I just wanted to mention that I I think I don't think it's probably a part of every boards minutes that the Lia liaison actually has a section where they talk about things that are pertinent to that board. So, I mean, I think that in particular for us has been very helpful, like big city council meetings are very lengthy. And they cover a lot of topics and some of it related to library, but certainly not all of it related to library, I do think it's very helpful to have that part of the meeting where you specifically talk about what's pertinent to that board. So I think that's been helpful, at least for our board. I am certainly it's not across the board of all other boards. So I just thought I'd mentioned that.
Well, if any of you individually, or collectively have additional comments, for the councilmen, I would encourage you to send them on because it's not often you have someone that's receptive to hearing, advice and concerns and criticisms, and this is a great time to get that out in front. So we can all try and figure out how to build a better model of this arrangement. So if you haven't done the more,
if there's any reticence, like, yeah, I have a really strong opinion, you want to do more of this, or less than that, and, and you don't want to hurt my feelings. You know, you'd have to go a long way to hurt my feelings based on what we kind of input with him from the public. But you could share that with Mark, because Mark has no qualms about hurting my feelings. He's just gonna tell me or Nancy. So it's easier to do it that way. I just think if we could build a collective understanding across boards and commissions, what is it that we should be doing that adds value to your work, because that's the whole reason for liaison. And we just don't, we just never had a conversation about it. And it just seemed to be like, it's we ought to, given the fact that we've raised the expectations for you, that we ought to be setting an example of how to raise expectations and meet them. So
I have one, thought that just occurred to me, but, you know, you've been great about encouraging that, that communication from you to us. What other boards Do you see, come to you through counsel, that, that administer their function more effectively than this board? Does?
Um, yeah, that's a good question, Mark. I think I don't I honestly, I would not, I don't think there is a better example, I think, I think you've done a terrific job as Chair, I think the input this board is it's, this is a fun board to be a liaison to, both because of because it's the library. And because you all bring your own passion about the library, and, and you you value it, as much as you know, any patron in town. That's part of what makes it fun. But you're not reticent about providing input to one another, you take on responsibilities as volunteers outside of this meeting. I wish I wish there were some other boards, I wish were as active as you are in terms of helping to, to move an agenda or, you know, consistent with mission of the library. But I but I wouldn't say yeah, take a look at you know, at the parks and rec board. Or, you know, the historic preservation committee or any of the other boards and commissions that I'm familiar with. I you want to feel good, in my opinion about what you do, how you come at it. And I think, Mark, you've been I think chair for as long as I've been the liaison and and I think your leadership of this group has been terrific.
Well, thanks for those words, you have my condolences for our time together. And, you know, the invitation is open. We're all we're all interested in learning and figuring out how to do.
But that's what it's all about. We have to learn a way forward. And I just haven't been quite as intentional enough about it, in my view on the council side of this, so.
Okay, very good. So did we do we address all that bullet was intended to address? Are there additional items out there that we want for on the table? Hearing none, I'll move on to the next item here. status of activities regarding face to the feasibility study. Is there any update on that, Nancy that you'd have for us,
there isn't much at the moment with us trying to fit, you know, fit all the urine stuff in except that we are. I have dredged up the original consultant RFP. I don't have it with me at the moment, but we're going to be Looking for that consultant to do the financial modeling portion of the feasibility study. So if you if we have one or two members of council that would love to proofread our newest version that we're coming up with of our next phase, we will be discussing that at an upcoming board meeting as well. So we're in the process now of looking at looking at this RFP for the next phase. And we'll be obviously talking with our wonderful purchasing department about what that RFP looks like. It was Ford support on
you Well, okay. I mean, do you want a feedback recruit?
Well, I'd love to know, I mean, if anyone is against us continuing with the study and figuring out what that data extrapolates into for the, for the different options, moving forward to fund some of those things have been laid out in the consultant's results. And, you know, if you want to do a formal measure of any kind of support for us moving forward, that would be awesome.
I didn't, I didn't have anything specific in mind. But you'd mentioned that you were going to have counsel take a look at it. And,
yeah, we're just not there yet. We're not done with
it. Or my and I think some of us would, would be happy to take a look at it as well and provide feedback as as you felt that it was needed. So I'll leave that out as an open.
And what we're doing with that is, is you know, a couple of different things right now that we're starting to pick out really is to look at how we it what exactly we're looking for in a consultant moving forward, we know what the original consultant had intended to hire out to a second consultant. And but we would like to have more say over that, then them passing it on to someone to do the the financial modeling. So you're really just just considering what it is that we want them to do with all the data that the first consultant gathered, and really want to be pretty stringent because I think we we expected a little bit more out of the first phase of feasibility studies, I want to be a lot more stringent this time about what kind of analysis we're really looking for, and what kind of presentation we're looking for. Well, that's where we are right now. He's just trying to work that and also, I've been making some calls and reaching out to some contacts to try and find a list of names, when we have this prepared to send it to you consultants that we feel have experienced doing this.
From your background. And this is this is really part of the next step from your background. Do you have experiences or recommendations that that you would put in front of the board that says this is a good way to interact with counsel over the results of this. So there's no
sense that I do have some experience with this, but it's a little bit different because my experiences in working with this type of a project have been been with a an advisory board, even though the libraries were were not with an advisory board rather with a governing board. Even though the libraries were city city and municipal libraries, they had a governing board rather than an advisory board. So the role and responsibilities were a little bit different. So I'm gonna have to think about that one.
Well, if you have any recommendations from your pasa you know, we'd love to hear it because like, I keep turning this over in my mind, and I'm sure the other board members do too. Is that okay, we're going to have these results are going to come to us from from the consultants, councils going to see them, the board is going to have an opinion, based on just the interactions that we go through monthly Council is going to have an opinion, but it's not clear whether the two opinions are going to be the same. And that the potential to have this thing drop into, you know, there might never come back out again is real. And I don't want
that to happen. What typically happens and when I would expect to happen and I would build into the provisions of this second set of responsibilities for this consultant. And the one that I worked with last in Bellingham was that they came on site and met with the board pretty extensively, went through everything prior to presenting it to Council and the consultant was you know, were the ones that took input from the board and various other entities and then and then and refined their presentation and presented it to Council.
Well, that's having the board's viewpoints on their study presented as part of the study, but it doesn't, it doesn't close the gap between counsel state of mind and the opinion of the board and the study that would be presented to Council. And I'm just trying to find mechanisms to keep the process going. So, I mean, we're spending 50 plus $1,000 on this to try and find answers. And you would like to think that the money's not wasted. We have we have some sort of consensus that both groups agree to, and then that creates the path forward kind of thing? Well, I
guess I've been lucky because it, it's worked out. Okay. And the ones I've been involved with in in that the council, and the councils that were involved, took in the information as presented, you know, and asked a lot of questions and then proceeded in a way that benefits library. I'm sure it doesn't always. That's apt to think about that. But what happens if that doesn't happen?
I think you've got a wealth of of hard won experience that you can keep keep us safe with? And I'd love to hear it. Do you have any thoughts on this capsule?
Well, I have a couple thoughts. Is it safe to say, Nancy, that you're disappointed in the consultants or consulting firm? And
you know, it's not it is not what we expected it to be? And I think, you know, the thing is, we started out with Kimberly Bowen and Associates, and it was a husband and wife team, and he had the expertise in compiling data and doing those type of things. And she had the library experience, and the two of them split up personally and professionally. And possibly, even before we hired them, even though that's not how it was presented, I'm not sure. But, you know, I felt like something was missing, because we never saw Kimberly Boleyn from Kimberly Bowen and Associates after the interview. So I did feel like at least initially, it was quite disjointed and not organized the way I would have liked to have been, I did feel like our staff did a lot of the grunt work on this project. And, you know, I'm not opposed to doing that. But I'm sort of opposed to paying someone a lot of money to do it and having us do it. I think there were some areas that were they excelled. I think that the community surveying the paper survey, and the analysis of that was very good. I think the first part and the last part of the consultants project are very well done. I do feel like they they were pretty good at synthesizing things at the end. And I didn't feel that they were as proactive as some some folks I've worked with. Before in in that, you know, for example, you we have several spots in the, the survey data where he would notes, what percentage of our population is Spanish speaking, but doesn't extrapolate anything saying, well, you need to serve people more. And this is a significant percentage of your population. And here's how you might do it. So I felt like there was some of those things that are open ended. And what I would expect from this second phase would be to take this a lot of this raw data from the first phase. And you know, a lot of times, you know, I've had consultants to do all of this. But in this case, I'd like it to move in a more definitive direction than I feel like the other one was a little bit loosey goosey. So I would like to have a consultant's results presented in the way that I've had them in the past with some really great data and you know, data extrapolation and charts and graphs that show the different funding possibilities going forward. And you know, like you've said, you know, it's not gonna it's not, it's not like you can build this library system of the future for a growing population with with nickels and dimes. So if you're going to be funding here are the different funding mechanisms. Here's what they cost overall, here's what it costs for you, the taxpayer to do these different, these different, you know, options for funding. And it's funding, it's governance, you know, it's funding, it's, it's taking into account the raw data. What does this look like, for Library District? What does this look like for me, for a municipal library? You know, what are the what are the advantages and disadvantages? And I was, I was hoping they would get more into that in phase one, you know, because there are distinct advantages to disadvantages and there are hybrids. So they did mention Yes, there are hybrids, but they didn't say what the hybrids are. So like, for example, In my last city, which is very similar to this, and definitely a municipal library, not a district library, but with the governing board, which actually gave us more flexibility when it came to things like contracts and policies. So, it which which, which we struggle with occasionally here. So that's one option, you know, there are all different, there are multiple different hybrid options. And, you know, maybe it's one of those things where you don't ever want to do the consultants work for them, because you want an outside opinion, but, but I sort of want to go and talk to the next person and say, you know, here are options that we have seen, we went data on how these would work. Plus, what else do you know? Yeah,
yeah. So for me, it's like, you got the what, that's the data, you didn't get the So what?
You're gonna get the sowhat? No, it's just what
you'd expect from a console. So basically,
hopefully, um, I know, a couple of consultants that I've worked with before, and I'm sure there are others out there, too, that that can, can take what we have, which is considerable amount of data and make it into a So what?
So as you do that, I would suggest if you haven't had any conversation with Tony chacoan, uh, you know, was Nancy rezac? Was the point was the point person on the performing arts in concert, or a feasibility study that with Nancy leaving that got shifted to Tony, I don't know how much of a role Tony is playing, I'm told that he's just kind of the point person that fields or whatever. Now, that's not. There are different views on how that's playing out. But I've been in a series, a series of recent conversations about that feasibility study. And here's what here's what I think you should be concerned about, Mark, this goes back to, you know, what, what the gaps in understanding or how much bandwidth the council would have, you're going to have to do feasibility studies, what I think you'd like to do is have them come in about the same time
And there ought to be a real thoughtful coordination in terms of when and how the results of both get presented to the council. I think there should be some really strategic conferring between you and this board. And Elliot, Moore and Bob balsam in the pie. Because at the end of the day, there is a there is a, I think a unique opportunity because of both feasibility studies. To bring this home in a way for both studies and the interest for all the groups involved in a way that will never come along, again, not any of our lifetimes. But it's going to have to be timed in and thoughtfully integrated in terms of how it all gets presented to the council into the community. But there's an opportunity that shouldn't be missed. And I'm, I've got a phone going off in the background, you buzz. A buzz, so I do think checker would turn on the timing, on the other hand, using that to kind of calibrate what your deadlines would be for your consultant. Mm hmm. And then they can certainly you're in close proximity or in close collaboration with the lapide group and the other staff members who are involved in that feasibility study. You don't want to you how that gets tied in, and how they both get presented to the council. And then what what we might be able to do in the community becomes really important.
That makes a lot of that makes a lot of sense. Because there's so many overlaps, though, that are possible out there. So
verify the name of the other feasibility study, please. It's the arts.
It's a performing arts and competence center usability study. Yeah. In the truth is I the folks who are the the interested parties in Longmont, who have been working with us consultants, and they're not real happy with that consulting firm either. So it's a little discouraging to find out we got two feasibility studies that we got that were disappointed, I think, in both consulting efforts. There's nothing to do about that at this point in time except lemon lemonade out of what otherwise might be lemons, I, but I do think you ought to have an eye on their deadline as you set a deadline for the modeling and, and then think real hard about how do we bring these together, and I'm happy to confer with you on that, how and when to bring them to the council so that the bandwidth the council has available to get a taste of this and understand if there are strategies that need to be employed between the two studies and what we eventually want to put before the community.
Well, I think that's something we really do want to look at and you know, the consultants had spoken with, for example, with museum staff, etc before but then they didn't really do anything with what we talked to with them? And, and, you know, that is definitely another option moving forward. And you know, if we were to look at some type of a district, there's no saying that it would have to be a like just it just if you're a Library District, there are a library museum districts, their library and called their cultural arts district, there are all kinds of different hybrid options. So we just didn't get those hybrid options out of out of this. I think we have really good library data which can contribute to that. But I think I think we definitely need to talk to them about any options that may involve a, you know, a greater entity than just the library.
Well, you know, there's a keen interest in the community. Yes. In how to how to move this forward and how to do something big. Right, like, go bigger go home. Yeah, like to do something big. So
it's anything bubbling up through envision log? I mean, it's Are there any different visions that would work against the direction and the flow of what this is tending to suggest?
No, I don't think it'll be through envision long month. Not that there is a work that doesn't get done but that's that's that that's the comprehensive plan. It's not static, but it's there's not a lot of active visioning. In the context of envision Longmont, I think where it's likely to happen. Mark is we have money in the budget to to reinvigorate the steam initiative. I think it'll happen there. Right. And it's in that context, I think that we need to bring all this together around land acquisition, land aggregation. And you know, and what's the what what is it? We want to ask the community? And and where are the partners that in terms of the private sector, because I think, both from you, the friends and from the the those with the pockets to support the arts, there's an interesting public private partnership to be created here. And change it the change in our charter enables this in ways that were not available before. All the thinking that's come into the gun into the steam project, what's going to happen with turning all that visioning into planning documents this year? I mean, along comes now this opportunity with these two disability studies, it's going to happen one time, right. And we need to seize that opportunity. So
Well, that's a hell of an opportunity.
I think it's great.
So the timing of our phase two, what do you think the timing would look like for our phase two?
Me or Tim?
Well, since since you probably know more, I'll ask you.
Well, we can you know, we can set parameters. I think that, you know, since since I kind of know what we want to come out of phase two. And I've worked with consultants doing this before. But you know, since we did have a lot of the rod data, and community surveying done by by our first consultant, I don't think that timeframe will be particularly wide. In this case, it's not going to be as long as if we were starting from scratch.
Once you guess, second quarter,
If I would, I would assume we'd hire somebody. Hopefully in January, if that's not too optimistic. And I would say it would probably take him a couple of months to complete this. Depending on
second quarter, likely,
I'm looking down I would think so.
Okay, and I guess you'll find that through your conversations with the timing of the other studies going to look like so we'll see where it goes. Okay, any other thoughts on on this topic? I this is gonna be something we're gonna have to continue to grind away on. But I think this is good stuff. I mean, this is, this is exciting stuff if we can pull it off. Okay, I'll move on to new business then. We didn't really have a topic for little libraries on this agenda. And I didn't add anything under new business because it occurred to me in the interim, but I was driving around town and I was looking at all these private little libraries that that are popping up everywhere, which I think is really great. And I just wanted to throw out a thought or two about maybe an alternative way of of trying to skin the cat that works. Trying to skin here. You know, we we built, we built the couple little libraries that the library answered, we funded them with books, we had a flow, we had a workforce that would would take care of them and all that. But I was wondering if, if we were able to put something out either through the friends or through the library that said, Okay, if you have a little library, we're willing to work with you, in terms of making sure that you have enough books to be in that little library. So that kind of gets the board out gets gets the library out of the day to day stuff, maybe intercedes to friends instead of the library from an administrative standpoint. But when all these books come in, and they get segregated for sale or whatever, there's always some that are leftover that don't get picked up. And maybe at that point in the process, we can say, those beady little homegrown little libraries, were willing to help you. What do you guys think about that is that said, Councilman,
I just would suggest you think about the neighbor, a group leaders Association, you get like 56 neighborhoods, right, or 66, in Longmont, that are a part of ngvla. In in most instances, where you'll find the more private small libraries are in their pocket parks are in somebody's you know, posted in someone's front yard, where they have eyes on it. And you know, they, they police more than the ones that were posted in public parks, right? We're nobody. And if you want to make it kind of a seamless way to do it, talk to Wayne about getting this in front of ngvla. My guess is they'd love to work with the library, or
I don't know, I mean, I contacted them multiple times. I contacted Wayne about the problems we had with our little free libraries before and I never got a response.
Well, there's a leak Thursday night, and I get time on that agenda for my agenda, if you want to ask that question. Well,
okay. I'm kind of intrigued by Mark's idea, though, because we do always have, you know, a plethora of stuff that's not quite good enough for the book sale. But that, yeah, there's a bunch of I passed, like four of them on my way through one month driving home,
in school to a vendor that, you know, turns around and does whatever the vendor does with them. So why not keep them in the community?
I think that's kind of intriguing, because I think there's a lot of them that people have, you know, they probably struggle a little bit to stock them. Before, I think it'd be worth talking to the friends about it, see if
you think it should go to the friends before it goes to the NCI.
Maybe, because they'd be the ones that I think I could see this working really well through the friends, because they they were fabulous through COVID at pulling a ton of books for us to give away at the free lunch giveaway spots, etc. So I think that they have some really great volunteers that work on the sorting that would, you know, look for it. Look for a good assortment of materials to be to be sent out to these folks or put aside for folks to come in and pick up for their free libraries. I think that's an interesting idea.
What would your mentioning that at the next meeting? No, I
would love to,
and see if there's any interest at all? I'm sure that's
if there isn't, then we're then we go to plan B.
Put the puzzle together. Mm hmm.
Do some libraries even put them out at their brand? I've had them at my library branches before. And it seems weird, but you know, we're not open 24 seven. So we did have a few issues with people putting library books in them, but and you know, the idea was to be somewhere accessible with cameras.
Well, I will mention it again. GLA Yeah.
But thank you for the thought of. That's ultimately a good way to spread it if we can get the mechanism to be the back the back end side of distributing the books. Another item I had under new business is the member appointment, and I didn't know whether you were kidding earlier or not. Katie, are you staying with us or is there a new you are going to stay with us? Oh great. So then this will be the board going forward for the next year or so great. So then next meeting, we should have an officer vote. So get your campaign slogans and your your ads gone and your, you know your placards and all the rest of it and your supporters. And we'll, we'll do the officer vote in January. That's great.
I mean, there's no new blood to voice the secretarial duties on to?
Well, we'll work, we'll work it out on the next meeting, actually, it's the 25th. So we'll give you plenty of time on the podium to make the case
load myself completely.
But I am, I'm thrilled that Katie is staying because I think this is a really good board, I think you're a really good combination of a lot of great qualities and passion for the library. So I would, since there is a lot of stuff that's going to be going on in the next year, year and a half or so I'm very pleased that you're all still with us as a group, because I think I see great things coming. In our future.
I like to thank so as well, makes me really happy. It's been it's been great for me to work with such supportive people over the last year or so. And I think we're moving the ball forward. So from my perspective, it's been wonderful. Do you? Do you want to send along your thoughts, Cynthia, in terms of what you might be interested in going forward? Since you're not going to be here?
I'll do that. Um, so I can email, I guess you would make the most sense, Mark, because that right?
Well, I'll get it in front of the group, or you can get it to Nancy, and she'll get it in front of the group. But at least at least when we we nominate you for all these jobs, you end up with them that
was saying it
should be lucky if we don't make her baby, the Secretary
Um, Mike, can we go back briefly to the free little library conversation?
one comment I did want to make during that is maybe sending part of the original idea was to get out to some more underserved areas of the community. So I'm wondering if there's I think the idea is really exciting, reaching out to people who already have these setups, but I'm wondering if there's a way to also make sure that our efforts are to areas where people may not be frequent library patrons. And so I'm assuming that that could be part of the conversation with the free what's called the group, the neighborhood group Association. But I think that would be an interesting, an important thing to keep in mind during that point
well made. Can we get that in the notes, please, Catherine. So we remember that. That's the game plan. Thank you. Thank you for that. And I look forward to your thoughts on officer petitions or you can send it on demand Chief, you feel more comfortable?
Can I Can I ask a question? Just following up on this. If we ever put little free libraries inside buildings, like in lb K's office, or do we have one in the youth and family,
we put it, we put it inside the youth services, and it's still there. So that one's still inside the Youth Services Building and this is their one inside sandstone? I think it's inside sandstone. That's not ours. I don't know where where is it at a sense?
I like the whole community area was it was there are they?
Well, j l COVID. j in the our center would both be places you could put in three libraries inside a building where you don't have to worry about vandalism. And they would be accessible to populations that are typically less well served.
Yeah, I had mentioned the our center before 10 because we had had a couple in our equivalent to that to the our center in Bellingham, and it worked out really well. And you know, folks are doing a lot of sitting around and waiting sometimes. And you know, having having reading materials is really beneficial.
I'd say the whole offices you would put put that on your list as well.
That's a good idea.
And I would I would propose that when you folks bring this up with the friends that you might inquire they're interested in sponsoring.
And I think you know we can I think it's
Yeah, I think this it could be a great combination, because I think you know, we could put something inside one of these buildings that would serve some folks that would probably like it and appreciate some access to these materials, but at the same time us not putting it on their staff in these buildings to stock these stations. So I think the friends could stock them.
Yeah, I mean, if you wanted to put together the initial library and stick it in the our center is an example. And we and we had a mechanism either through the library or through them to keep it funded with books. I think that's a win win for the community. If we can,
that'd be really simple, too. I mean, that's, that's, you know, we walk over there all the time for meetings, etc, and three blocks from us. So cut through the parking lot.
There are typically folks looking to do service projects to if we needed help with construction.
Like, that's a really good idea. Because I know there have been some I've seen Eagle Scout projects and some other things like that, that, that do a lot of work with those.
All good ideas.
Okay, great. Um, that's all I had for new business. I did want to open up the library board comments for some thoughts from Katherine on her project on the Kudo boards. But you would we have any other items for new business before we move along? I don't think anybody's handsome. So would you mind spending a couple minutes Catherine, if you if you don't mind updating? I mean, it made the paper. So congratulations. It was a nice article. That was it's a good, it's a good pat on the back activity. And I applaud you for your efforts for pulling it all together.
kids are so techie.
Yeah, I'm used to be the oldest one in the room. So it's kind of nice to have that perspective. Um, no, I certainly don't want it to be about me at all. But I just been pleased that it got some traction in the community. And Nancy, you said that you felt it was, you know, well received with your staff and gave them a little boost, which I think we could all use right now. So I was, you know, just approached by the Longmont leader, reporter and I reached out to Nancy and Mark just to let them know, I think that was sort of the protocol we had agreed to. So you know, it was a very brief conversation, and he took down a few of my thoughts, I did try to put a plug in for the fact that, you know, the staff makes do with so much less funding than
my son that
just trying to lay that groundwork there for us, you know, but mostly, I just the board is still open. So I hope it will invite more people to share, they'll share their love and appreciation for this team that has really gone above and beyond. And
like I said in the in the article just probably doesn't get a lot of direct light shone on it all the time. So it made me really, it was really nice for staff and, you know, among us, we recognize most of the patrons who made comments because, oh, we know and love our patrons. That was actually the community outside that a few cranky folks. You know, we understand that a lot of stress now. We love our patrons, and they act, they actually express their gratitude often, you know, the ones especially since we went, you know, off into the dangerous Red Zone, etc. I know the long white leader had had put what what was the correct article, but their headline, when we went to the red zone was library closed. And what it then explained in the article was it it was closed for browsing. But a lot of folks didn't go all the way into the article. And they totally panicked. We had so many calls, and so many people coming up saying you're close, we can't get materials anymore and say we're so relieved that we weren't close that we were just taking a step back to curbside so actually our patrons have been incredibly appreciative that in and continue to have a ton of seniors that use the library, we thought that it would be mostly the younger folks and the seniors would be, you know, holed up away from COVID. And instead, a lot of them have told us that this is their outing. So to come to the library, so we're just we're grateful that we can provide at least some of what we have, but it was very, very beneficial to staff and it came out kind of a tough time. So I really thank you for doing that. It's
just great. A great idea. At the friends meeting coming up. Do you think it's worthwhile mentioning this at the Friends Meeting in case they want to To get on the board and express comment for whatever.
Yeah, I think Kathy was gonna forward it. I'm not sure if you ever had a chance to do that. I know I sent it to you at one point just to everybody. And I think you might have already forwarded it to the friends.
I didn't forward it specifically to the friends, but I did forward it to other of my friends, actual friends. Real Friends. Yeah. But I can certainly do that.
You know, they're obviously big boosters of the library. And,
you would think that the library staff as well, and, you know, they're, they're a bigger organization and our board. And, you know, they have tentacles in the community that we don't have, and maybe with their backing, and in their individual comments that will give an added boost to the staff. If you you know, if you feel comfortable bringing it up.
Yeah, I'll do it.
Very good. Okay, that's, uh, that's all I have. Are there any other comments or concerns? Or? Oh, wait, I have one more. Happy Holidays, everybody. And I hope you have a wonderful one in this age of the virus, and that you all socially distance in a responsible way, but party the hell out in the holiday? And we'll see after the first of the year.
Cynthia, if we don't, we don't know you again.
What's happening to Cynthia,
so you're gonna miss it. I'm having a baby. In early January, maybe.
Didn't you tell January 9. Was that when you told me?
So I really hope I'm not at the next meeting.
I'll be feeling up to that the next meeting.
That's very exciting.
part, the nice part about these virtual meetings
is that you could show us the benefit of the virtual future students,
Hopefully, that's exciting news.
Did you have something? No, I thought you I thought your hand was up. Okay. Well, great. Well, we'll see you all after the first of the year. And
what is our next meeting date? Just to clarify.
A it's January 25.
I'm so excited for it to be 2021.
Thank you, everybody.
Bye. Bye. Bye, Nicole.
You're a trooper. You're welcome, gang. Take care.