What to expect from the Nigerian election | Global Journalism Seminar with Seun Okinbaloye, Political correspondent, Channels TV | Otter.ai

What to expect from the Nigerian election | Global Journalism Seminar with Seun Okinbaloye, Political correspondent, Channels TV

Reuters Institute1h 6min

Speaker 1

00:00

area will go to the polls and what Foreign Policy describes as 2023 is most important election 13 candidates standing for President of Africa's most populated country. Political analysts in the photo watch are the PDPs atiku Abacha, APC bolotin, LPs, Peter Roby, and an MPC audio compressor. As of last month, an estimated 93 point 4 million voters are registered to cast ballots for presidential and National Assembly candidates. More than 176,000 polling units and 774 local government areas. We polled 14 Journalist fellows to ask what they thought would be the most important issue to determine the outcome of this election. 43% said corruption 29% said unemployment and the economy and 29% terrorism and security joining us to discuss the election is veteran political correspondent Sean Malloy from channels TV news, who's interviewed almost all the candidates and covered elections in 2011 2015 and 2019. That's the briefing that's begin

Caithlin Mercer

01:11

Thank you. Welcome to the local journalism seminars. I'm Caitlin Mercer. In 10 days time Nigerian journalists will be working overtime to cover one of the most unpredictable and deeply consequential presidential elections of the year. Today we'll talk about the issues the candidates and the challenges for journalists hoping to cover this story. Well, to do so, we're joined by an award winning broadcast journalist Sean Aachen Beloit, a veteran political affairs reporter for chat channels, TV news and host of several agenda defining political talk shows. welcome Sean

Speaker 2

01:46

so much Catling appreciate it's an honor to be here.

Caithlin Mercer

01:56

Thank you. I mean, you must be incredibly busy. So thank you for taking the time for us today. My pleasure. Let's get going before before we dive into the candidates, and there's a lot to talk about there. I thought we could chat a bit about the key issues that this campaign revolves around for Nigerians. We pulled our journalist fellows downstairs as you saw in that briefing video, who one of them is from Nigeria, but most of them are not and I'm not familiar, and they thought that corruption would be the most consequential issue that is helping make the helping voters decide. Do you agree with that?

Speaker 2

02:44

Absolutely. Corruption is a major issue in Nigeria and a lot of politicians who have made these like I kept a campaign slogan. The incumbent Muhammadu Buhari in 2015 had said that he was going to focus on corruption amongst other issues that he plan to focus on. And there are those who have also said that if corruption if we don't keep corruption, corruption is going to kill Nigeria. Corruption has dealt with this country more than anyone can imagine. Ideas say that Nigeria is perhaps one of the world's natural and human resources. Nigeria is the is the largest gathering of black people on in the world. Out of every African gathered out of six or five African you find one Nigeria and Nigerians in some parts of the US make the lag Nigerians people imagine this and in some parts of America make the largest population of medical doctors and so you find Nigerians in every strata, and every sector of life across the world, but you imagine that why is it not working? Why is our financial system happy devil by the challenges that he's facing? Why is our transport system not working? Why is our public's working? Why is the civil service in the state where it is right now? You discover that there are systemic corruption that has held the nation back is like a curse that has really caused our nation a lot of pain, a lot of sadness and corruption is a big deal. You hear how much money public officers steal from public office, you hear how many governors who are being in office are being jailed in the last few years. It tells you how big the issue of corruption is, and those who have said, Look, if you don't kill corruption, corruption is going to kill Nigeria. Anyone who was willing to leave Nigeria needs to find a way of tackling the issue of corruption. So corruption is a big deal. At every checkpoint that you get to remind you how you find a police officer on the road at a checkpoint asking you for money. Because of corruptions at a lower level. We can be in office and send a strong message out there that will send some jitters down the spine of every aspect of our lives. That kind of leader is needed in Nigeria because if everything shipped up, Nigeria would just be what Nigeria needs. From the from my own point of view is a sound leadership in Nigeria guests leadership right and upright leader a leader that doesn't have any encumbrances or any corrupt tendencies. There is we would have solved a major problem to almost 15 or 20% because that perception alone we do a lot of attention, federal direct investment, you just see them rolling in you see a lot of people who have an interest in Nigeria leadership draft of corruption is going to be very important and that's why

Caithlin Mercer

06:13

we're just gonna wait for Shawn's connection to catch up with us. Please are the joys of an international call

Speaker 2

06:21

There you go. You're back here back. Oh, my bomb. Okay, I was off for one more reason.

Caithlin Mercer

06:31

Don't worry about it. But if if we if we encounter the problem again, we might turn off video and continue to talk but it's completely normal. And it kind of is a good illustration of my next where I wanted to take that, that corruption discussion because yes, I can acknowledge that that it is an issue but I wonder if corruption is not symptomatic of other issues like connectivity, electricity, fuel shortages. People are just trying to get by day to day and is the average voter actually swayed by campaigns built around corruption or do you feel like yeah, I guess that's the question is, is the average voter really swayed by an anti corruption stance or do they want to hear about the economy unemployment, security is surely a big one.

Speaker 2

07:38

Well, to the weekend and to be truthful as Nigerian elections being shaped by the issues in the campaign, maybe not to a large extent. And you ask an average Nigerian Have you voted just because someone said he was going to do this or do that? Maybe not to a large extent, interesting. Do this thing matter? And that's the reason why those of us who have led conversation, political and election related conversation, we have always hammered on the fact that we need to have a civil engagement with those who want to lead so that they can tell the people what do you want to do. Nigeria's Fourth Republic is experiencing the seventh election. And you agree with me, that consistent elections are also a sign of a growing democracy. And so when this is happening, there are a lot of things that Nigerians are getting used to, especially those who started voting or those who are just aware of the democratic and the society development of Nigeria in the last 20 years or more. We're just getting used to the Democratic nature or the democratic principles. So people choose an A leader, based on campaign promises have not been that really is not being the norm. The political structures have always been the order of the day. People have traditionally voted for who they wanted to vote for. We've just seen these kinds of change recently, and you will agree with me in the early 2000s. We saw some kind of change that was sweeping across the world. We saw what happened in France. We saw what happened in the UK, for example, the issue of Brexit, what a major issue, some prime ministers are to leave off is because of the heat that that's carried the aftermath of that controversy. Scenario brought into that country. We saw what happened in France. We saw even a term the word change. Several countries and several politicians across the world had used that word, and it's really changed things around. How much of the strain of campaigns slogan now campaign jargon as an effect on our politics in Nigeria, it hasn't not so much. Because, see, people will vote according according to party, ethnic or religious lines. And Nigerians are gradually getting to wrap their heads around what the politicians have in store. And that's why some politicians can get away with not talking to the people and just going to the podiums, because we need to have a democracy where the people will be the ones that politicians will be subjected to they need to answer to the Nigerian people because they're seeking an officer seeking a job and employers are the Nigerian people. So if you're not able to answer to them, then there is a problem. So we are gradually getting to that shape and form as a people, and I think is gradually working. We made a lot of progress. Absolutely. Yes. Are we there yet? No. So for those who said they will fight corruption, the ask them how much of corruption Have you been involved with? You, yourself? How much of corruption Have you fought when you in your other track record? So these are some of the basic questions that people are asking. And this election is so different. There will be a lot of upset a lot of people these Nigerian election of this year will be a lot of there'll be a lot of shocker. A lot of surprises. There will be a lot of new grounds are going to be conquered. There'll be a lot of old foes and enemies that are going to be seen on the field. And while we succumb to the other, a lot of things will happen in Nigeria, the political map will change. A lot of things will happen. The world will be shocked at what kind of things that will happen in Nigeria after the election of the next 10 days.

Caithlin Mercer

12:10

Yeah, I think you make such an excellent point there about it, not necessarily being just a Nigerian trend. Than a global trend, and people are not so much swayed by the issues anymore, but by the rhetoric of ideologies, and that's probably a cause for concern for all of us. So let's talk a little bit about the candidates. So we start with the two that are expected that were expected to be at the top of the list was Abu Abu Bakr and Bala to newbie, what have you seen of their campaigns? What surprised you and perhaps let's talk a bit about whether they are mentioning issues or ideologies and they're campaigning.

Speaker 2

13:01

Well, if you so this election, unlike what we've seen in the past as always being this election is it is a little departure from our past elections, past elections of being to answer these, but this time around the a few. There are a handful of people who had sprung surprises and brought with them some kind of offsets in the in the round elections. You look at the history of most of the politicians who are on the ballot, most of them are belong to one political party before but for the first time, we Nigerians especially political experts in this country, were telling you that is very difficult to call 10 This election, you're still not certain who is going to win this election. You You mentioned the candidate of the PDP and the candidate of the APC as perhaps the front runners, but I'll tell you that retail the the Labour Party candidate is also a very, very big contender in the race and Robbie, of NPP is also a contender. I see it as a three or four arms race, in the sense that look. Take for example Afghan console has his own stronghold. It was a two time governor of a Nigeria's largest state with the largest voting population cannot study is come from a region that has seven state compared to other regional six states the state now as an enormous following across the country, not only in the Northwest region where it comes from, is also being on the ground is sponsored people. Scott scholarship is sponsored a lot of people to school is is conferencia movement as a huge following. And you cannot cannot relegate that kind of candidate to the background. So you might not give him a chance. Because he doesn't have a political party that controls any state at the moment. You can say same of the Labour Party can they better be now this is another candidate who is a former governor to Governor of a southeastern state. Now the question is, Peter will be as come with it. He's been tagged the social media February 8. He has a huge, huge following of the OB GYN movement those his supporters who are taken to the social media and you know the breath a different perspective that is a legend altogether. If you think PDP and APC is additionally I've run these ways over the past few cycles. Peter B and con console with throw spanner in the works of what has become a nom and dangerous election. Peter we definitely will win some state one console, we also gain some grants. That might affect because constitutionally, there are provisions of the law of how many states you can win to become a president. Not only that they are the majority number of votes, but you must win to third 25% into third of the state of the Federation. So if that is the case, how many of these candidates if you say Peter, article and bola Tinubu, like you mentioned, are they able to garner or win as much of the state that is provided by the Constitution? How many seats would be Toby win when I'm going to say we can console when I see a very, very big struggle in the race in the sense that these candidates have come to show themselves based on their history and the trend of the campaign that they will hold on to some grounds. They will lose some grounds and it will give a very put some difficulty in determining the next president we've seen in the past in 1979, there was a big quagmire the nation couldn't decide out of the ballot. Who becomes the president they have to go to God. There was a very big issue of mathematical problem of how to determine who wins and if God was able to decide at a time do I see a 9079 scenario play now? Maybe not absolutely. But those school of thought that I mean that those who believe that Nigeria may not be able to decide his election or the fourth ballot to an eighth and I share that belief because of what has happened in the past past few months, but if there is going to be some surprises if anyone is going to win this election and the first bioload that will be a shocker. I'm ready for Chaka to I'm ready for that kind of surprise too, but a bola Tinubu and articles campaign or veto of his campaign. It's been some interesting things. They've thrown more shades and more more, more suited each other that characterize the campaigns that we've seen how much of the depth of their campaign manifestos are they been able to dug into of the cove on the stage. I would say not so much but one thing is very obvious and evident is the fact that they have been able to speak to the people, the audience. So someone goes into a commerce oriented community of RBI estate and tells them that ABA is not producing what he should produce. When I become President, I'll make about a commercial hub is speaking directly to the heart of these people. And we've seen almost all of that too, that we've seen people will go to a certain state and politician or some of these candidates and say to them, Look, this state should have its own pots. I'm going to make this pot function. When I become president. This weekend. They say things that will suit the interests of of their audience. And we've seen this we've not seen too much of ideological debate on the podium between these candidates. We've seen some of them that are capitalists oriented. We've seen some of them that are wealthier is oriented, socialist oriented. But I've never been able to bring these ideologies to bear I have not seen so much of that. I've studied and I've read a lot of their manifestos have had discussions about their manifestos, but I'm a bit disappointed that of most of the candidates. I really wanted to hear it because I follow their campaigns author and true I want to hear concrete solutions. And I think this is what the yearnings of Nigerians are to progress solutions on how to solve electricity is a nightmare. And how to fix the double exchange rate that we are multiple exchange rates that we battle with in Nigeria, how do you fix security permanently, such that you can write in Nigeria, and every region of the country is embattled with their own kind of insecurity? So not so much of these ideological issues have been brought up? Which I think is something that politicians need to learn, and it's your turn to kneel even.

Caithlin Mercer

20:47

Yeah, I mean, it underlines again the importance of the selection if, if Nigeria were to break with the two main the main party and the opposition party and bring in an outsider, that's a seismic shift and points to a seismic potentially global shift in how much rhetoric how much how sick people are of putting up with rhetoric instead of hearing concrete policy steps. So it's going to be one to watch. I've got two more questions for you before we open up to questions from the audience and from our journalist fellows downstairs. And for those who are on the Zoom call, please use the q&a function to submit your questions for Sean. But, Shawn, I wanted to ask, I'm not going to ask you to speculate. But if we do end up in a runoff situation where are you expecting to see coalition's from? I mean, I'm saying speculate and I am literally

Unknown Speaker

22:00

when Yes.

Speaker 2

22:09

Some parts will be clear some will not. I see our situation, like I said, being some of these candidates or being in one political parties before so they know each other very well. They've worked together. But what I see is that the Knott central region of the country as always being a swing region. They've they've been in the A lot of times when the election have gone mostly enough. We've seen the North Central Region add their own vote, to determine the they the trajectory of the election. We've seen one the election was largely south in north central region, because we have maybe more than any part of the north than not you can count at least three or so states in the north central region there are predominantly Christian dominated state. So that's a big deal. And I mean it compared to the northwest and the Northeast, that are predominant. ethnic group like Fulani, Hausa and canneries, you have enough that they don't have as as so much of our homogeneous source society compared to these days. So in a lot of our elections they've brought that dominates and the timing where the election eventually swing. That will happen. That region might give us some kind of direction. In the end. And I also see that the third and the fourth candidates will will have to be the decider. Because if there is a stalemate in the fourth Bala will find a situation where the first and second they the winner and the runner up will have two qualities of final support from any of the third of four political parties. Now that is going to be the major problem. And I don't want to speculate on I don't want to say because as a journalist, I'm not allowed to, to speak in this manner. But beyond that, I've told you the region that could swing it and I've told you that this election muddy for us raise some I said drew down to two political parties. But I tell you that the third and fourth political parties will also determine a lot in our elections. And so that's why I wanted to say he said to us raise the third and fourth political parties will be we'll have to determine work eventually determine how the election go.

Caithlin Mercer

25:02

And I want to ask a question about the speculation about the third and fourth candidate that's happening. And while it does seem very, very likely from I'm reading the same sources as you and the tea leaves do look to be saying wow, there's an upset coming. But is it possible that our tea leaves and I'm this is not unique to Nigeria, we've seen it with Brexit with Trump. And with a few other elections, surprises happening and in the last few years where the media has become so centric in Nigeria's case, so South centric so Lagos centric, that the tea leaves look incredibly clear, and then turn out to be very badly misread because you're only hearing from the south. Do you think that that's a possibility that the Nigerian media is

Speaker 2

26:12

in an echo chamber? Yeah, that happens a lot. And a lot of the times, you cannot blame Lagos for being over reported. Because Lagos in Nigeria is the media hub. Most of most of the media organization, they have days and their headquarters in Lagos and so that that tendency that because of the advantage of where they are located are based, that you will find them doing more work in Lagos. But this time on, you know, one of the candidates is from Lagos. And so in that sense, then I add to that, that tildes, where the media might have to focus on Lagos, but China's television as a network, we have a strategy to do an election that is beyond a place a region or location where upon Nigeria network. We have our base in virtually every state of the Federation, and we have on almost every major candidates that is on the ballot. There is that tendency you're very right. Not the medium I want to focus on Lagos, but it will be it'll be a big problem because one of the candidates from Lagos that tendency then will swing swing either in favor or against that candidate. That is from Lagos. So that's awareness need to come into the mind of not only political reporters, more managers like myself, who manage elections, and how to deploy and, you know, think about coverage and how you can get the upon Nigerian reference and and coverage for the election is very important. Yes, you are right. There is that tendency I used to be in Lagos. I've been legacy several years, reporting from Lagos where I'm at since moved to Abuja. The nation's capital, where is the base of politics? And so there is that tendency that you deploy almost every resource that you have into the city of Lagos and don't forget, Lagos because of his number can give you a false sense of presence. But this is something as journalists as professionals that we need to be aware of, so that we can make the necessary adjustments.

Caithlin Mercer

28:56

Yeah, it's something like 170,000 polling stations, how on earth do you cover all of them?

Speaker 2

29:06

You cannot cover? I'm not sure there is one single media organization in the world that can cover every point in their country of baseball. So this is where the expertise come. The experience those who manage elections are not those reporters are also experience. newsroom managers, and experience field reporters who have done elections in the past on also who understand our elections or prayer. So covering elections and you want to cover you design your demography your coverage, demography in such a way that you have areas that can represent the whole. So you pick just a community that you think is representative of a larger community within that area. And, for example, at Lagos state as the mainland as the island. So if you're deploying in Lagos, for example, you could have the sense of deploying some of your personnel to the island and some of the personnel to the mainland. So you have that covered in one sense. And you can go region out deployment also that will help you to be able to cover areas but covering every polling unit. That sounds almost impossible. But one thing that covering elections that I've thought of is that if you're not careful, as a television reporter, every footage of your congress looks the same. The ballot boxes are the same. The ballot ballot cubicles are the same the officials are wearing virtually the same thing. The ballot papers are the same. So there needs to be a careful you need to be careful in reporters need to be careful in the way they report does one location and you need to be location specific or you need to be incident specific reporting places and elections.

Caithlin Mercer

31:15

I'm gonna go downstairs to our journalist fellows and ask my colleague I am from South Sudan has a question for you.

Speaker 3

31:22

Hi, um, thank you so much for taking my question. I was just wondering how are the youth responding to this election cycle and what does that tell us about their demands and their vision for Nigeria?

Caithlin Mercer

31:37

Just repeat that how are the youth responding?

Speaker 2

31:40

Problems? Yeah, their response or not? The one of the candidates is then tagged the social media Canada's Federal Bureau of, of Liberal Party, and now the social media, Twitter, especially as being the tool of the young people. And in this election, you've seen a lot of fights. You've seen a lot of a lot of acrimony on social media. In the past that has been a dismal outing from voters. They've not been able to go out and election that we've had between 35 to 40% of voter turnout. voter apathy is a major challenge in our elections in Nigeria. And in this election, there's been a lot of campaign. So if you look at it from the continuous voter registration exercise that was conducted for almost a year and a half, we saw out of the all new voters that registered over 70% of them are young people between the ages of 18 and 49 or 35. Whatever way you want to classify them, young people from the larger percentage of voter the new registrants now about 71% of the new of the 12 million that registered nearly, that is a huge encouragement. If you compare it to the last election cycle, there isn't so much difference now. Would there be a larger turnout of young people and that's what we have been pushing. Now. Let me tell you, just how much how big the young voter demographic is the Nigeria between 18 and 35 is over 30% between 35 and 49 is another over 30%. So, between the age of 18 and 49, you have way over 60% of entire 93 million voting population in Nigeria. So young people have the numbers, but they've always been on Twitter on social media and watching TV. On election day. You go on the street, or you see young people playing football on the street, because the streets are locked down. So you provide them a free football turf or pitch for them to play football on election day. We're hoping that we'll see more young people engaged and come out to vote. Them I've collected a permanent voter card because it's not enough for you to register is also important for you to get your voting card in Nigeria. It is called the permanent voter card. So that voter card is very important without a voter card you cannot register. So a huge number of that is still with the electoral umpire and collected. So the actual number is not the overnighting million registered voters. The actual number will be the actual number of people who have collected the cards. Now either as the voter the electoral umpire had not come out to tell us how many people have been able to collect their PVCs. So that is very important. But let me say that we've seen more engagement on social media by the young people. They've called to, they've held people accountable. Also showed me that you will see that most of the candidates are very active on social media. It tells you one thing: that they are cautious about what young people are saying because, take it or leave it, the social media is a young people tool. They're the ones who are using the tool more than any of the demographic in any population across the world. And so you and especially Twitter, Twitter is abuzz about every topic in Nigeria's election. So when you see young people trending topics trending on Twitter, and it's about the election, and it's happened over the past four or five months, so it tells you the engagement the young people are having. I know that I started a podcast recently and it's about young people. See the kind of followership that has gotten. And my my my my my bubbles of being that is to draw those people who do not watch my weekly and my daily show to take them to another platform they are familiar with. This then why they are on the go they can watch later on. They can join. And so we've seen this kind of engagement with young people, but my biggest fear is would they be able to turn that passion? So fine, we'll take it offline and go to the to the voting polling unit on election day. But the good thing again, is that the government is shutting down AI institutions, the tertiary institutions, the polytechnics and the universities, they're shutting them for 20 days.

Caithlin Mercer

37:10

For one day

Speaker 2

37:14

for that there's a two week gap between the first election and the second election. So students are going to be trained or for about 20 days.

Caithlin Mercer

37:24

So Shawn, I want to I definitely have a question about your podcast but I'll come back to that. You mentioned social media, and you mentioned shutting down institutions. Do you personally in those channels TV have a plan in place for if social media gets shut down?

Speaker 2

37:43

That was a very big question in 2011 2015 Don't forget what happened in 2011. In Nigeria. The Electoral umpires webpage was shut down on election day. It was a disaster. The ionic officials told us that they there was a lot of attacks on them. In the last cycle elections where we had in case you're not sure election and some of these attacks have come. They can trace them to out I mean, as far as the Middle East as far as some part of Europe. I wouldn't want to make public what China's televisions plans are. This was what we envisaged sometimes in October last year, and we've made adequate plans should there be a shutdown on election day? What our plans channels we have an alternative plans for that. I wouldn't want to make it public because it's a trade secret that we hope to keep close to our chest because of our competitors. So there is a possibility now, there was a scare yesterday one of the major networks went offline for about two hours yesterday. And that is my telephone network provider. And for two hours, you're not able to make calls. That is a test of what will happen on election day. So yeah,

Caithlin Mercer

39:18

how do you what is the advice that you give to political reporters across Nigeria? If if communications do go down and or if they're if tensions do spill over? How do you keep your readers a and formed but be calm? Sorry, I shouldn't say readers audience

Speaker 2

39:43

audiences. No, no, no, we have. So now because of digital journalism, these things are now pretty much you know, read watch listen, everything needs to be fluid. And so now, one of the things that will happen definitely may happen. Not Nigeria's Internet penetration is not up to 60%. There's a lot of places that we're not they're not properly covered. In Nigeria, in terms of internet penetration. There are those areas that you have problems. We have supplied deployments and equipment that can bridge that gap. Should there be any kind of outage in internet provision provision. But one thing is starting, for example, for the organization that I work for channels TV, which by the way, is a leading network in Nigeria here. We are online. And we are in fact opening more streams to our coverage that you can see online, which we'll be launching in the next few days. That provides our readers, our viewers and our listeners the opportunity to be able to catch us on virtually every platform that they have and even more and you can see more of our content at the same time. He can see multiple content at the same time on our platforms. We perhaps one of the only media organizations in Nigeria that will stream the content across all social media platforms at once. So you can watch on Twitter, on Facebook, on Instagram, on YouTube at the same time on our web page. So if internet fails, television is one way one thing that you can revert to, and it can be a very big disaster if that should there be an internet outage on election day. But one thing also is important that in Nigeria we carry mobile more than one mobile network around so I have about three telephone lines. So Should one fail I go to the other. So everyone listening to also make these plan and also think like some of us who started practicing just before mobile telephony came into Nigeria, that you can shut it yourself to say she did not hear from me in the next two hours. This is where I'm going to be. This is what I'm going to be doing. And if you're not able to hear from me, should there be an internet outage? This is what I'm going to do finally hear we need to be able to plan ahead. And since we're thinking about this, this is a very good way to start thinking into so you ask yourself there was a time that mobile telephones are not what were journalists doing, how would they do their jobs? So we need to revert to that traditional mode as a backup. Should there be a problem with digital or mobile telephony on internet networks? I

Caithlin Mercer

42:45

have a question for you from Asif Islam from Bangladesh. She says thank you for your insightful remarks. Has climate change been an electoral issue?

Speaker 2

42:56

know I'm not the type will try to know climate. Look, Nigeria. I speak to you. Hopefully now Nigeria is so blessed that we don't have natural disasters and my heart goes out to Turkey, Syria and those of our friends across the world who are experiencing one form of natural disaster the other so it's such a sad moment. The earthquake that we saw and we hope that the peace and joy will be with the families. In Nigeria, no natural disaster. The only natural disaster is the bad leadership. And, and corruption. We've been blessed with good weather. The weather is enough to provide us electricity we have not been able to use. You can pretty much I wear the same kind of clothings if I was living in Europe or America, I probably have a new set of clothing for for winter. And instead of plugged in for summer. Nigeria is have the same set of clothing for Euro all year round. So people that you can almost predict what is going to happen. We have had a dry or wet season. So it's either it's raining or it's not. It's not so chilly to the point that you have to put on a heavy jacket or what have you. We don't have such problems. And there is the stims not to be so much awareness and the average life the mind of average Nigerians about the issue of climate change is a major issue. The only time you see Nigerian politicians or leaders talking about climate change is when they get on the global stage when it's an issue with global leaders. But out of all the political parties and their candidate. I mean, I stand to be corrected. He doesn't want to talk about climate change issues is not been a major issue, maybe because of the bargain I gave and that's why people don't see it as a major issue. But I think it's something that will impact on us in the next few years. That we as a developing economy, we need to start thinking about alternatives to fossil fuel alternatives, energy that we need to start thinking how much of that the question that people ask is that we have not even been able to conquer the fossil fuel and the kind of energy that we have now about of alternative energy. And I guess this is some of the challenges. It's not far away from third world economies. I mean, it's not they're not major issue. We deal with people deal with issues of death and shelter, issues on issues of education. These are major issues, kidnapping, kidnapping. So these are major issues and some of the issues you some of you in these rooms. are not facing at the moment. From for, for the people in Nigeria, and for the larger percentage of the population. They are thinking about the food on their tables.

Caithlin Mercer

46:23

And they get a climate change can seem very very far away.

Unknown Speaker

46:26

If he's far away to be kinda Yeah,

Caithlin Mercer

46:29

but for a really good follow up question on that is right, a Shem downstairs from India, who has a question about agriculture. Radish I'm taking away

Speaker 4

46:45

your Thanksgiving a small scale farmers Association in Nigeria, they have been raising this issue regularly for last few years. They are talking about men being kidnapped when farmers being kidnapped, raped and murdered and According to FAO, around 60 to 79% of men are in agriculture. Considering the number do you think these issues should be discussed in relation campus and are they being discussed?

Speaker 2

47:22

True so if I got the question, right, you're talking about kidnapping as it relates to farmers and farming communities, specifically

Caithlin Mercer

47:33

in rural areas.

Speaker 2

47:35

Yeah. So now the thing is that you look at it come in interestingly, just yesterday on my show, we're talking about just how many people have been affected by some of the violent incident in Nigeria. Guess what, over 11,000 people, victims that we have seen have been affected by violent situation. This is not just these are issues related to kidnapping, caught clashes and insurgency in the northeast, our over 11,000 Just yesterday, on my show, we're talking about this. There is a big it's a big issue. And we have heard candidates speak about how they will help those communities that are being battling farmer herders clashes, because that has been a very big issue also where in communities where you have commas, on the other hand, have heard as they've been clashes between these two people. And there's also been the accusation of ethnic attacks on another lesser ethnic group or less powerful ethnic groups in the country, which is a major issue. Now, we've heard politicians making promises in that direction. But how do you then protect the rural communities? I've not heard so much of that, because that's a specific problem that needs to be tackled. How much of these farmers can go back to farms? Don't forget my brother, that recently 1000s of farmlands in Nigeria were being swept away by floods 1000s And most of farming communities in Nigeria, of farming in Nigeria is consumed subsequently, subsistence farming is main is a major issue in Nigeria. So, um, there are complaints about these farmers not being able to go to farms for the fear of being kidnapped There are reports also that there are some communities that insurgents are the ones who are even protecting them. Now, you know, taking levies and taxing them, this is some of the situation and it's going to be important to to find solutions and the issue of state policing becomes a major issue. Nigeria is a federal state. And most of what we see in Nigeria today is the Federal Police, catering for the police at the local level. And law. said look, this is not working the average person in those rural communities are not protected, because the police are being sent by the Federal Police is not being able to cater for their needs. So there is a big question. Anyone who becomes Nigeria's next president needs to fix that problem. Security in fact, is a major problem in this country. And it's not a joke. Anyone who wants to rule this country or govern this country next will have to find a permanent solution to that

Caithlin Mercer

50:51

quite a few problems. And I have to point out that you in the space of two questions when from climate change isn't an issue for us. We've had made major floodings affecting our farms. So maybe climate change is an issue is an issue framed as a climate change issue, but it probably underlies a lot of the tensions happening. I am going to go to officer to Yalla. I'm going to give the SEO to questions. We only have eight minutes left so and I still want to ask you about your podcast so

Speaker 5

51:34

I don't have more than a dozen questions for us.

Caithlin Mercer

51:37

Yeah, he's got about 16 questions.

Speaker 5

51:40

The last time I saw you You've not You're better than this much. Simply provide your guests with questions. Very popular shoe politics to be sold out. I'll ask you. In your opening sentence, you did admit that corruption is the biggest issue in Nigeria. My question is do you find in ironical and does it bother you? That of all the Presidential aspirants, not the candidates, the aspirants where the political parties were determining the ticket doesn't bother you that you want to imagine the candidate of the ruling party, the party that came into power eight years ago promising to fight corruption. Does it bother you that the candidate of that party is the one with the biggest image of unexplained wealth? You know, no one has been able to hold him no pot and be able to complete them. But each time he gets asked to explain his source of wealth, his answers differ that he can never consistent Does that bother you? My civil is up interviewed virtually all the political presidential candidates, you know, apart from the only one that keeps running away from interviews, dodging live interviews, I'm assuming with almost all of them, who Who do you think is the most qualified to lead Nigeria to where it deserves to be?

Speaker 2

53:19

I must I must warn everyone in the room. That besides that dangerous journalists, yes, very dangerous. Anyone could go to the prisons and and do an undercover journalism is a dangerous journalist. So he's asked me to dangerous questions that will take me from being a journalist to being a political analyst. Thank you so much besides a piece of very sensitive questions, but I will answer it in the most professional way. Does it bother me? Yes. There being other people who have promised to fight corruption in the past? Yes, they have been because it's a major issue in Nigeria. And guess what people do? If you know that I like chocolate, you will offer me chocolate to get my vote. That is what campaign campaigning is like in Nigeria. And that is why some organization have now started to document campaign. Promises. In fact, post 2015 I started a show on my regular show to focus on the campaigns or take the sound bites of the campaign and play back to them and remind them now as that could be very painful because they make those promises and then know that they are not true to those promises. Now, the government of the day the political party that is seeking reelection, promised that he was going to fight corruption. Now, the President will say I'm not corrupt and those who are, excuse me, those who are around and say our president is not corrupt, but almost the same administration, you find an accountant General of the Federation that has been taken to court over allegations of enormous amount billions of Naira that are being stolen stalling under his watch, you'll find people that have been alleged to have stolen money. Now, if such a political party is presenting a candidate for the election, you will want to ask them, your party said they were going to fix corruption. How much of that are you able to fix? Now we live in a country where you're not you're innocent until you're proven guilty by the court of law and FISA. If you know that I had a very fierce program with the spokesperson of the political party over the issue of the allegations leveled against the candidate of their party, basically doing my job as a journalist asking the question on what can you say to respond to these? What about this? What about that, and that cost a lot of steps. It was a big deal. We were being reported to to a regulator just because of that. And I don't mind being reported on I don't think my my boss mind being reported to the regulator for doing the right thing is for the regulator to decipher whether we did the wrong or the right thing, but this is a very major issue. And we keep asking the question, it will come to equity markets come with clean hands and we've I'm not sure we've been able to get a very good answer is more of rhetorics, and it's not even that pilots political party alone, or its candidate, I think he's also most of the people that are running for office. You know why? Fisayo Because if you and you know very well that if you are being a governor in Nigeria before, it's going to be very difficult for you to represent say that you are claimed. And you have people who have said they've been in office before. If you boo, boo them out, as you scrutinize them through and through. I don't know how many of them are going to be able to withstand the heat. So that's going to be a major question. When I'm bothered. Yes, I'm bothered. And I'm hoping that we'll be able to ask question and look whatever becomes Nigeria's next president will give Nigeria a good image or a bad image in the eyes of the world. We are playing within the global community. And we are also people a lot of countries are looking towards Nigeria and so we need to be able to give the best and I guess, say that no one in this room will ask a company or a business interest will hire a CEO who cannot do the job, or do we hire a CEO? We will think that round down the is former employee employers business down the drain. So these are very major questions that Nigerian people will be confronted with whether or not these guys have been able to answer the questions. leaves one within the realm of of conjectures. It's up to our

Caithlin Mercer

58:33

desire to understand whether

Unknown Speaker

58:37

the second one is

Caithlin Mercer

58:41

go for it. And we're gonna go slightly over time go for it. Let's just do it. This is too important character. Go for a job because I was over to you, Sean. No. So the second part of the question the second part of the question was who, after all of these interviews apart from one who was most persuasive to you, most convincing? If you have the right not to respond to that question. I will remind you of

Speaker 2

59:25

our won't blame you but I will, I will. I will say this now, because this is also a public. We bring in things to the public consciousness, and whatever we say today or we do as journalists will also help our nation and the word in generally. I'm not terribly impressed. I'm not very impressed with the positions of the candidates generally. Some of them are their strength areas. But some of them have not been able to give the solution to my own satisfaction. And maybe I'm too critical because I'm a journalist, but I'm looking at it from the point of view of an average voter whether or not these guys are being able to tackle the questions. There are those who think that they are more private sector driven that those who think that they should spend more money to influence the economy than those who think that they need to produce more and I'm asking the question, how much of Nigeria Do you know now? Because the realization of Nigeria as a leader is when you get into office, and that's shaaka. The government of the day when they got the handover notes, and they discovered that Nigeria was not in the in the shape they thought it was. And several months down the line, they were stumbling, and they were struggling. To, to steady affairs of state, because there are a lot of things that are not privy to now. I do think that we need a national consensus that will give us a concrete idea of what we need in the area of security. Because the government of the day started off on some policies and unfortunately the next government when they come into power, they we all know whatever has been done and start over again. Our problem will persist. The economy problems Nigeria has seen double digit inflation, double digit and unemployment rate, double digit on an under employment. Almost every of our problems are in double digits. Now, whoever needs to fix Nigeria's problem they've not been they've not been able to tell me that in four years. Inflation we go into single digits. They've not been able to tell me. This is how I will permanently fix the issue of Boko Haram. This is our chase out the bandits. We spent so much money to buy two kind of Super Tucano aircraft from the US. Why are we not been able to flush out these elements effectively out of our system? There's so much questions, and so much of them have been answered. I'm not terribly impressed. And I just hope that Nigerians we will be to see beyond the rhetorics and beyond what the politicians are saying. I'm able to pick themselves the best president for Nigeria.

Caithlin Mercer

01:02:30

Sorry, last question for you. Sean. You hosted Fela, kuti son on your podcast. Do you regret hosting an influencer to talk about politics?

Unknown Speaker

01:02:44

Sit down again. So

Caithlin Mercer

01:02:47

your podcast with Fela Kuti son, who had some very vocal things to say about some of the political candidates. Do you regret hosting an influencer to talk about politics on your show or do you think it's necessary to engage them?

Speaker 2

01:03:04

No, I do not. I in fact, thought that that sparked some conversation or as a hobby that had not happened because it raised some issues. And when he did that, there were reactions. And beyond that, I was able to look into the engagement later on. And they started debating on what account the character of the candidates, the achievement of the candidate, the track record of the candidate, and I thought that that was a good beginning of it. It started off on a very bad footing, because there are now two prominent musicians in Nigeria that are talking at each other and insulting each other on social media. That was not the essence the essence. podcast is for independent minds. And I want people to be able to speak independently and freely. But what of what I discovered was the good thing it was the fact that people were able to argue the point and defend their candidate, and they were able to ask themselves the question, Why am I following Why am I voting for this guy? What has he done? He's the kind of person that I think he is. Why is my candidate better than these? Why is this one better than mine? Those kinds of conversations are needed. I'm happy that young people of Nigeria did not before this time, you don't have any business in politics. They are more engaged now than ever before. And so we saw the followers of Shell cootie and the followers of the peace square, none of them got into the conversation. At the end of the day, they will be asking themselves what what exactly is the debate about is about this candidate, the capacity to deliver his character, his track record, and somehow notoriety or by other means we have been able to bring people to have political conversation. And these are the demographic that we never talk about. Politics, but rather talk about big brother and one thing that it was very instructive also to me. Outside is sad. That big brother Africa that was launched in the middle of the campaigns was one of those. Why would you do such a thing? You just distracting the use? of this of this nation? From focusing on what matters to them, and

Caithlin Mercer

01:05:29

why you would do such a thing.

Speaker 2

01:05:32

One of the reasons so and I'm happy that more Nigerians are now there are trends. They're making political issues trending on social media. Which is a good thing is a good start for me. The next stage for us to go is to direct the conversation in a civil and in a more progressive manner.

Caithlin Mercer

01:05:52

Shawn, thank you so much for all of your time today and for your extra time. We wish you and your colleagues every success in reporting and providing the best available information, asking the best possible questions even if they aren't answered. And for a peaceful transition of power for Nigeria, thank you.

Unknown Speaker

01:06:19

Sure, thank you so well. Bye

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