569: The Story Behind the BoA Podcast with Rion Willard on Podcasting in Professional Services | Otter.ai

569: The Story Behind the BoA Podcast with Rion Willard on Podcasting in Professional Services

Enoch Sears53min

Rion Willard

00:00

I would say the number one reason why we've had any success whatsoever is just been pure consistency. Hello and welcome to the Business of Architecture. I'm your host, Ryan Willard, and in today's episode, I will share an interview where I appeared as a guest on John tiriman's podcast, podcasting in professional services. So John tiriman, who is a seasoned expert with over a decade's experience in marketing agencies, has been instrumental in guiding numerous firms through the intricacies of understanding their clientele, refining their brand identities and crafting potent digital marketing strategies. His contributions to research on buyer behavior in professional services are extensive, and he's also been the host of countless podcast episodes. In this episode, John and I will discuss how the Business of Architecture podcast began. We look at how to get guests onto your podcast and how to promote a podcast, and I'll be talking about how Enoch and myself did that in the early days, and how that process has changed as the podcast has been going on. And we also look at why a podcast is a valuable tool for any business. And in actual fact, I think that podcasts are up there with as an essential marketing tool as a website, and in the very near future, are going to be the tool that will replace websites, and are an absolute brilliant investment for any organization to to set up. So sit back, relax and enjoy myself and John tiriman having a good old chat about podcasts. This podcast is produced by Business of Architecture, a leading business consultancy for architects and design professionals. This episode is sponsored by Smart practice, business of architecture's flagship program to help you structure your firm for freedom, fulfillment and financial profit. If you want access for our free training on how to do this. Please visit smartpractice method.com or if you want to speak directly to one of our advisors about how he might be able to help you, please follow the link in the information. Hello, listeners. We hope you're enjoying our show. We love bringing you these insightful conversations, but we couldn't do it about the support of our amazing sponsors. If you're a business owner or know someone who would be an excellent fit for our audience, we'd love to hear from you. Partnering with us means your brand will reach over 40,000 engaged listeners each month. Interested in becoming a sponsor, please send us an email at support@businessofarchitecture.com

Speaker 1

02:35

On today's show, we've got a great interview lined up. Today's guest, Ryan Willard co hosts the Business of Architecture podcast with Enoch Sears, which has published more than 500 episodes over the last decade on the Business of Architecture, you'll discover strategies, tips and secrets for running a fun, flexible and profitable architecture practice. And one thing I've noticed around these successful podcasters that I've been interviewing recently is this innate sense of curiosity. And one thing that stood out to me about Ryan's journey when he started was he decided to have more discussions with successful architects and practice owners about how they ran their firm. This was before he decided to launch a podcast he wanted, he just wanted to go out and interview these folks, and then he teamed up with Enoch to publish those interviews through Enoch's Business of Architecture podcast. So it's really interesting story of how these two guys got together and built the Business of Architecture together. So in this episode, you're going to hear why Ryan got started with podcasting, how it's impacted the architecture community as a whole over the past decade, how Ryan and Enoch teamed up to grow the business of architecture, the impact of the pandemic and how the podcast created in person, event opportunities. That one I think, is really interesting. And then Ryan goes behind the scenes to give us a look about a typical production workflow for the podcast. So he's got some interesting perspective there. But before we get to Ryan, this episode was produced by Red Cedar marketing. We help professional services firms achieve podcast led growth. Whether your firm has an existing podcast and you want to distribute your content more effectively, or you're thinking about launching a show, please reach out. We've got a number of resources, and also we offer podcast production strategy and marketing services. Visit redseedermarketing.com to learn more or connect with me on LinkedIn. All right, here's my interview with Ryan today. I'm joined by Ryan Willard, an architect turned architecture business consultant and host of the Business of Architecture podcast. When Ryan isn't interviewing architects, investors and industry disruptors, he helps. Successful practice owners build a business that gives them fulfillment, freedom and exceptional finances. Ryan, welcome to the show.

Rion Willard

05:07

Thank you very much. John, absolute pleasure to be here.

Speaker 1

05:09

I feel kind of like the Spider Man meme a little bit. We've both got the brick backgrounds.

Rion Willard

05:16

It's a cool look. It's a cool look. We can't go wrong.

Speaker 1

05:19

What I like saying is that building a business is done brick by brick, and that's why I like having the bricks in the background. Absolutely, absolutely. So Ryan, before we dig into the Business of Architecture, are you still running your own practice, or are you solely focused on working with other practice owners?

Rion Willard

05:38

I'm solely focused on working with other practice owners. Now, in the past, I there was a period where I was still running my own architecture practice, but it came to a point where, you know, I had to make a make a choice. Did I want to go full in with doing the podcast and full in with doing the consultancy? Or did I want to be an architect? And in my in my heart, it was a very easy decision. And, you know, my own story of being an architect, and why I'm helping other architecture practices is, you know, it's, it's part and parcel of that, my own dissatisfaction with the with the industry and the profession, and how difficult it was to, you know, make money as an architect, and the the kind of, I guess, the disillusionment, if you like, of spending all that time and money in becoming a professional and then being very disappointed with the with the outcome of the of what was, what was presented to me as a career. You know, that was one of the things that led me to podcasting in the first place, because I started to want to know, well, how are these other how are these other architecture practices actually winning work? How are they marketing themselves? How are they talking about business? And that was the thing that kind of got me into, into interviewing, if you like, and then there was a point where it kind of Enoch and myself, we'd grown it to the consultancy, and we needed to, I need, certainly, I needed to make a decision whether I was going to continue being a practicing architect or was I going to do the the consulting and the consulting one quite easily, I must admit.

Speaker 1

07:27

Did you find it challenging to balance both of those worlds together? Is that kind of one of the driving forces for

Rion Willard

07:36

me, as in architecture, I don't, I don't love. I wasn't in love with it. I didn't in love I didn't love the process of designing buildings. I never enjoyed designing buildings, which is pretty weird for an architect to say, and and at university, I was one of these strange students that was always trying to avoid designing a building, and would do a project that wasn't related to designing a building, and was much more communication based. And I think the other thing for me as an architect is that the the scope is quite limited in many ways here what I do now as a as podcasting in the media, as a consultant, I'm talking with people every single day. And you know, after I jump off this call, I'll have a in the next six, seven hours are going to be just me conversing and talking with people. And I love it. That's what fills me up with, fills me up with energy. The idea of sitting with CAD or drawing anything just fills me with a sense of dread. And it always did that. And that was it was interesting, because when I went about 10 years ago, or a bit longer, when I first set up my own architecture practice, when the first things I did was hire a business mentor, and I didn't quite know this at the time, but I was really trying to figure our way out of architecture. I was trying to figure a way out a different career. I was I knew that something wasn't quite lining up, and I wouldn't recommend anybody setting up a business in something that they don't really love in the first place. And you know, the business was quite difficult to begin with, and I hired this business mentor. And I remember at the time I just, I couldn't there was just, it was just the fees were so beyond my comprehension. But I was so determined to work with this guy, a guy called Johan Taft, who's is now based in Vietnam, actually, but he's, he's a he was based in the UK previously, and I was so determined to work with him that that gave me a little mission and a goal, and I ended up winning a whole load of work. And, you know, got the fees together to to hire him. Hire. Following him as an advisor. And one of the things that we worked on was, you know, started to identify skill sets and where your kind of core competencies were in terms of, like, natural ability and your kind of personality profiling. And it became very clear that it was like, oh, right, you're of the personality that should be talking to people. How come you're, how come you're in this very detail orientated profession that doesn't really have that much contact with loads of people. I mean, you can as an architect, and certainly, very quickly, I kind of started to fall in love with the business side of architecture, and then winning the work and the marketing, and then the podcast kind of started to grow around that. And then again, I started to win work in my own business, and I had no interest in wanting to build a team to deliver that work, though I did, I would outsourcing lots of it to different countries. And there was a point actually, where we had a nice little workflow going, where I had a team in Bolivia, and we'd outsource drawings and work there and get it done. But again, this conversation around, you know, the kind of business side of the financial mechanics, interviewing practices, and suddenly to begin to realize that there was a there was a lot of stuff here that we were never taught in architecture school that would have made running a practice a lot more sustainable and enjoyable from the from the outset, if you like, and so that's where the podcast started to, you know, take a take a different direction, and I'd partnered up with Enoch. So Enoch in enixes, in California, he'd founded the Business of Architecture, and I probably joined him podcasting. So he founded it as a podcast, and then maybe a couple of years later, I kind of started. I joined him. I listened to a few of his episodes. I contacted him on LinkedIn and said, Hey, I'm an architect in the UK. I'm going to be interviewing all these architects about how they run a business. Can I publish them on your platform? And he was like, yeah, absolutely, that's a great idea. And then that relationship began to blossom and to grow.

Speaker 1

12:28

That's a fantastic story. And it sounds like your introduction to business and podcasting was fueled by kind of this innate sense of curiosity within yourself to try to learn more about the Business of Architecture and that show that Enoch launched, I think it was more than 10 years ago, going all the way back to 2012 today, that podcast is published over 500 episodes, which is just simply amazing. I was actually in prepping for this podcast, I was listening to Episode 128, in 2015 where you were actually a guest on the show before you became one of the hosts. And I want to dig into kind of your working relationship with Enoch and how that how that's gone over the years. But before we do that, what I'd love to do is kind of dive into, do you think the podcast has done its job? In other words, use in those early episodes you set out to elevate the awareness and understanding of the Business of Architecture within the profession. Have you noticed practice owners becoming more aware or educated about the business side of architecture?

Rion Willard

13:45

Yes, absolutely. I'm very proud of what Enoch and I have accomplished with the with the podcast, and feel that it's become a kind of industry staple. I'm amazed at the how it's found itself into the ears of all these people around the world, and how many people contact us about it and acknowledge us and say great things. We get a lot of weird comments as well. And in the past, I've had architects tell me that I shouldn't be talking about business and I should focus more on, you know, talking about beautiful buildings. And I've had people accuse Enoch and I, or myself as well, of being responsible for making architects focused on profit and producing really bad buildings. And, you know, there's, there was one guy who messaged me saying how I was, you know, encouraging architects to work on things like Bibby Stockholm. So Bibi Stockholm in the UK is one of these floating barges where they put immigrants in who were trying to get into the country. It's not a very it's really unpleasant. I can guarantee there aren't any architects who are working on that project to start with. But it was such a ludicrous. Us kind of accusation, and did show, again, that kind of deep misunderstanding about business and profit and architecture, but that's definitely in the in the minority of it, and loads of people have become so much more interested in the business side of it, we get students, which I think is so encouraging, who are always contacting us about, you know, they've got their ideas and plans and hopes and dreams of being developers or setting up their own practice. I know so many architects, certainly, when they set up their own practice, they listen to hundreds of our episodes. And I love it when, you know, when they become clients, and they're like, well, we've been listening to the podcast for the last six, seven years, and I've implemented X, Y and Z, and you know, we're actually, it's this is how we've got the money to be able to afford your services now, and there's already a kind of really solid, foundational relationship that's been put into place without us ever having to actually to be there. And it's led, you know, both Enoch and myself to be, you know, public speakers, and we talk a lot on the subject, whether it be at universities to at the RBA in the UK or the AIA in the US. You know, these kind of talks with the professional bodies. You know, we get interviewed on podcasts and other people's podcasts all over the place. So I certainly feel like we've been one of the major players over the last decade in turning the architecture industry on to business. And Enoch and I, we've often said, you know, one of our missions is really to make business sexy for architects. And you know, at the heart of it, if you want to be doing good design and running a successful business and be fulfilled with it, you've got to be, you've got to be skillful in the in the business aspects of it. Otherwise, it's just, it's just too difficult. Really, too difficult.

Speaker 1

17:04

Yeah, the, what is it? The first job of architecture, the first rule of architecture, is to win the job,

Rion Willard

17:11

right? Very good, yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1

17:15

So, there's no architecture that happens without clients, yeah? So that's a, it's a very, a very good message, I think that you're, you're sending out there, and I think it's a, you're doing architects a service so that they can provide a service to the community. Yeah, can you kind of dive into the story of how you teamed up with Enoch and what that working relationship was maybe what it was like when, when you first started working with him, and how has that relationship evolved over time?

Rion Willard

17:49

So I believe, as you said, Enoch started his podcast in 2012 may have been a little bit earlier. He may have had some few episodes a little bit earlier than that. Around about 10 years ago, 2014 I started working with this business mentor. One of my assignments from the business mentor, if you like, was to go and talk to other architects about how they were running a business to benefit my own architectural practice, see what they were doing. I figured it was a good idea to record these conversations that I was going to have with these architects, and I had listened to Enoch's podcast a few times. I believe I had even bought one of Enoch's first online marketing programs, which I still have the password for somewhere, and that might have been in 2013 I've told him about this. It was, and I remember, and I went through the whole program, and that was, and I enjoyed it. And again, I think it was one of my first forays into online education. It was quite dense. I remember the online educational package? It was like, there was a lot of a lot of video content, and it certainly not as slick and as well organized as things that we produced today. But the hot I remember seeing the whole idea of, like, wow, this is really good. This is kind of quite comprehensive online program for for education about architects, but I listened, listened to the podcast and started doing my own interviews. Contacted Enoch on LinkedIn and said, Hey, as this is what I'm going to do. We jumped on a Skype call. I believe I remember it being sort of one in the morning for me in the UK. We had a conversation. He said, Yeah, that sounds like a that sounds like a fantastic idea. I think we arranged a little little financial deal where he was giving me maybe, I think it was like 50 bucks or something. It was a small amount of. Of of money. But it was, it was a it was a nice, it was a nice kind of token, if you like. And he gave me some advice on what a kip what, what equipment to get, and told me to get my Zoom H for n, couple of XLR mics and some audio technica microphones. Those are my first ones, which I still have to this day. And I still use them. And the Zoom h4 and if I do a live podcast of that, it still makes an appearance, and I still get I still get that out and use it. But it was a pretty basic setup and and that was it. And I kind of started doing these podcasts. Then I would send them to Enoch and and he'd edit them and publish them on the Business of Architecture, the main platform I did that for for a few years, and I absolutely loved the whole going into other people's architecture practices. People were really open and positive and were really encouraging, and were like, yes, somebody needs to be doing this. Somebody needs to be and because I was focusing very much on the UK, and there was nothing like that in the UK, and people were really like, yeah, we need to be having this conversation. Because what's happening in the industry is it's really warped. At the moment, the fees are really low. The profession is so poorly paid for the amount of work and energy it takes for you to become an architect. And you know, to document this kind of the background of practices is would be really, really a very, very valuable thing to do and a worthwhile body of knowledge. And so Enoch and I, you know, that was that how the relationship began. And I was aware that Enoch, at the time, he was, um, he was, he'd founded, found, about that time, a company called the architects Marketing Institute with Eric Bob Rowe and Richard Petri and they had kind of started selling online marketing programs. It wasn't associated with the Business of Architecture. The podcast, Business of Architecture was a kind of separate thing that Enoch was doing that wasn't really a money generator for a little bit of time anyway, but he had the the AMI program and that that was kind of selling, you know, online programs and courses all focused around marketing. I believe Enoch, at some point, began a program called the AFF, the architecture firm formula, perhaps I can't remember what the name was for it, but that was an online business training program which was all to do with architecture business systems. And so Enoch was doing that, and I was just kind of providing architectural content and and podcasts. And at some point, you know, Enoch and I were talking, and we were like, well, what if we, what if I, part of my interest was to, kind of to, to bring the Business of Architecture to the UK as a franchise, almost. And so Enoch and I started talking about this idea of bringing it as a franchise. And I think at the time, I had ideas of turning, turning it into, like a media company, or having a kind of, you know, more media production, and kind of leveraging the podcast. And Enoch was like, Well, yeah, why don't we, why don't we try it, why don't we see what happens? Why don't you, why don't you launch a Business of Architecture podcast which is totally focused on the UK. And I think that that was about 20 we had that idea in 2017 and it actually got launched on the first of in january 2018 I believe. And so that was, that was what happened. And that's when the podcasting got super serious. I think at the time, I probably went off and recorded 20 episodes before I before we launched it. So okay, I kind of had a big stack of them ready to go, and we reused some of the ones that I'd already been using on the US platform, so we weren't short of of content. But I remember I launched it as a big event in the center of London, had a big kind of industry panel. So I invited five, you know, top top flight architects who I'd been very impressed with and who had admired their careers. Had them on a panel, hosted it. I remember, kind of, I struck up all sorts of interesting marketing deals with sponsors and people, things like that. And it was a, it was a great. It was great. We had about 200 people that showed up for the first event, which was really kind of wow. And I remember. The time, there was a lot of people that came along and they they were saying, Wow, that the RBA struggles to get 25 people into a room to talk about business. So this is clearly that some there was something fresh and interesting about it. And perhaps the fact that it wasn't coming from a professional body made it a little bit more kind of appealing. And certainly from my side, I've always thought that the the RBA and the AAA, they, they actually do really good events, and they've got loads of stuff available for architects. But it's not in an entrepreneurial context, it's they're an they're an institution, and they, they lack the kind of entrepreneurial spirit of what's needed to run a business and, and I think, you know, that's one of the things that we, we can offer, which is quite a fresh perspective. But that was how the the UK podcast started. There was ideas of it, you know, perhaps doing more of these live events. And that was certainly the trajectory for the beginning, was that we would do more live events like that. And Enoch and I were talking about, you know, I was going to, I had plans, probably around 2020, by this point, to to do a whole load of live events, live training, weekends and things like that. And then, of course, covid happened, which kind of put a stop to all of that. And by by this point, I'd actually started doing one to one consultations with people. So just as a you know, kind of my credibility in the industry had grown through the podcast, people were asking me for bits of advice. I felt confident enough as well to to advise and give counsel to people about their businesses. And I'd also been doing a little bit of work with the architects Marketing Institute as well, kind of behind the scenes. So had sort of a little side gig there where I was doing little bits and pieces, and, you know, learning all of the strategies and and, funnily enough, I though I'd never intended on being a coach, I had participated in a personal development program Since 2014 which had trained me to become a coach, essentially. And so I, whilst I was doing all of this, I'd spent probably about seven years training to become a coach. I know that sounds strange that I'd ever had any intentions of being a coach, if you like, but that was another sort of thing that I'd been doing, really, for my own personal development, and didn't necessarily think of it being a career in and of itself.

Rion Willard

27:49

But of course, it was like, it was like, the elusive, obvious. At some point I was like, Well, I've actually been training to be a coach, and I've been coaching people in performance outside of this as part of my own personal development. And then around probably 2018, 2019 I think I got my first solo client. You know, very much to, you know, Enoch encouraging me to do it and take it on. And we'd spoken about how it could be structured. And, you know, we had people asking me for advice. And I think we became more actively, you know, I used to put these little messages into the podcast that were, they were quite open. And they were, I think I used to call them, you know, have a cup of tea with Ryan. Have a, have a, have a 15 minute chat. Cup of tea. You know, tell me about what's going on in your business, and I see if I have anything I can do to advise or to help. And they, they became, basically took you up on that. Yeah, yeah. People took it up. And I was finding my calendar was was being just totally booked out. And and then they became sales conversations. So I'd speak with somebody 15 minutes. I'd ask, just ask questions. You know, what's going on? Hmm, okay, sounds like something I'm, you know, might be able to help you with. How about we sit down for 90 minutes and I can do a deeper dive into what it is you're talking about and see if there's something that we can do together. And, you know, at the end of that 90 minutes, we've been in a position I can give you an idea of what the investment might cost and what the problems are. Could probably outline a bit of what the process might look like, and then we can make decision if you want to do business together. How does that sound? And people were like, Yeah, sounds great. So those calls started to to mount up before I knew it, you know, there was one client, and then, you know, once you've got the first one,

Speaker 1

29:47

it becomes a bit addicting after that, right? Yeah, exactly,

Rion Willard

29:50

it had the first one, and was like, wow, this is, this is amazing. Actually, I love doing this. And the person I was working with was getting, you know. Was getting great results. And then before I knew it, it wasn't very long where I had a whole load of I had a whole load of these, you know, one to one clients. And I was that was when I started thinking, Hmm, I can let go of the architecture. Actually, this is way more enjoyable. It's much more kind of in alignment with it. It started all these sorts of light bulbs started going on off of my head like you realize you've just spent seven years training to be a coach and in leadership, and this is probably why you've done all that training, even though in your brain, I was consciously saying, you know, this is a personal development thing.

Speaker 1

30:43

What I love about this story, Ryan, is I can just, I can just see the momentum building throughout, right? And it's, it's kind of started with this, this podcast idea, and that grew into more of like a peer to peer conversation forum, and that was the appeal when you launched the Business of Architecture UK and were able to have a crowd come together in a in an in person event. And then, I think, from my experience and from researching podcasting and looking at the kind of the evolution of podcasting over time. In 2020 according to listen notes, there were over a million different podcasts that were launched during that covid period. Yeah, it was like, I think it was like 330,000 podcasts in 2019 it was like three times as much in 2020 and then from there, it just, I see the confidence building on the foundation of that podcast for you to take on clients and then eventually lead you to the decision to leave architecture behind and go full into into this consulting gig. This is a it's a really great story. Covid

Rion Willard

32:00

was a very important point. And it was the during, then during covid, when I decided to kind of let go of architectural together. And I'm so glad I did, because, to be quite honest, that I was very aware as well that trying to do two things just had my brain split. And there was there was two. There was so much unknown, intrigue and excitement with the world of business, of architecture and the podcast and the freedom and the, you know, just it was an, it was an entrepreneurial kind of hunger, if you like, that wasn't there in the architecture business, and it was, and things changed as well, when I made that decision, you know, just to kind of let go of something, kind of say no, to say no to that, that chapter of my life, and you know, had been the best part of, you know, over 20 years, just been dedicated to training, studying, becoming an architect. And it was very much, you know, a lot of people thought it was a bad idea. And you know, why are you doing this podcast? Is focus on the architecture and blah, blah, blah. And, you know, it actually was the thing that opened up a whole new world of possibility. And covid as well, was one of the things that, you know, it was the point where Enoch and I started to collaborate even closer together. He left the architects Marketing Institute, so he was in a kind of this position of, well, you know, I want to focus just solely on the Business of Architecture. And during covid, you know, I wasn't able to go out anywhere, so I just naturally stopped interviewing people in person, and started interviewing people like we're doing right now. And that suddenly opened up this whole world of the rest of the world, basically. And I started being more involved with people in the US and interviewing us based clients. And this is when I started to kind of let go of being solely focused on what was happening in the UK. And obviously Enoch's kind of, you know, welcoming into America, and here are people that you could be talking with, and we just started to kind of work more and more closely to together. And eventually we kind of came, came to an agreement to, you know, be business partners, essentially, and build up the Business of Architecture and the smart practice program, building upon what he'd kind of already developed with this AFF program. And then that was where we really started to build what we've got now, which is, you know, we've now, we've got about 6070, clients all over the world. We've got the smart Practice Program, which is a year long engagement for for architects, you know, and we spent quite a few the first few years selling and coaching and building up a client base. And it was really, it was it was life changing, really, really, really kind of amazing. And. Um, development, if you like,

Speaker 1

35:02

sure, yeah, and it's clear how well, first of all, what I would want to say is, in talking with other podcasters, one thing that's kind of like a common theme throughout is that these podcasts grow and evolve over time, right? And that's not a bad thing. That's actually a very good thing, because that if you're if you can't evolve and adapt to, you know, changes in your business, changes in the external environment, then you know your show's not going to last and it's going to flame out, and it's clear how the podcast fits into your marketing strategy. In fact, I co host a podcast called breaking biz dev with Mark Wainwright, and he and I talk about how certain aspects of business development and professional services industries is broken, one of them being lead generation. And I think businesses have this preconceived notion of what it means to generate leads. It's, I think, that there's this kind of, like, sales lens that people think about it, where it's like, hey, get let's get on a call so I can sell to you when, no, that's not really how it works. It's more along the lines of, you know, would you like to have a conversation, like you said, a cup of tea with Ryan? Right? Yeah, let's just have an informal chat. And if there's a good fit, you know, if we can have a mutually exchange of value, then sure, let's explore that. But, uh, yeah, so I think that that's a really important point to just point out. That's something that I'm trying to bring awareness to in the professional services space. But, um, what I'd like to do, Ryan is shift gears just a little bit and just quickly touch on, you know, you've The Business of Architecture has produced over 500 episodes, and with so many episodes, you've got to have a rock solid production workflow. Can you take us just a little bit behind the scenes? You're smiling? I'd love to kind of like, understand, like, how do you manage guests, prep work, production, that kind of stuff.

Rion Willard

36:59

Yeah. Yeah. So it's been, it's been a an interesting one, getting our workflow up and running. We right now, you know, then this has been through a lot of mistakes and problems. We have a awesome, awesome team that helps us do all of this, like just and the technology now as well. Well, was brilliant, like Riverside. What a fantastic I mean, I've had pop I had my issues of a riverside in the past. But now, nowadays, now it's got, it's the AI function and the clips that you can produce, and you can edit it in in here, though, we don't tend to do that, but you can. And you know, sometimes now I've started doing actually using Riverside in person with people. I don't know if you've tried this, actually taking your laptop, bringing a, you know, kind of interface with you, and then I'll record, I'll record the video on Riverside, and then I'll record the sound on audition, for example. Yeah. So that that works quite nicely. But the workflow now, we have a guy called Suresh in India who is amazing, and he's been, I mean, he's been working with Enoch, I reckon, probably for the best part of 10 years, for a long time, and he takes all of the videos, he edits them, cleans them up, and then we've got Jackie on our team, who's the kind of office superstar. She handles all the kind of internal communications with the Business of Architecture consulting team, and she also manages the whole process of the podcast and make sure that, you know, she makes sure that I get my intros recorded on time. She makes sure that she she's the one that collects the bio and the photographs and the guests that we have on. She schedules Enoch and I. She schedules all of our podcasts. She schedules the podcast that Enoch and I do with each other. So all of that is kind of managed. She also, you know, nowadays, if I want to speak to a guest, she'll be the one that reaches out to the guests that bring them onto the show. She'll often liaise of all the PRs. So the PRS, they contact her, she'll show me a list of potential guests, and I get to pick them. It didn't used to be like that. It used to be, you know, I used to be the one that was reaching out to architects, and would, you know, would ring people up and would plead them to be on the podcast and try and explain, no, I don't want to talk about buildings. I want to talk about the business side of it. And then I used to do a lot of my own editing, certainly with shorter form, micro content I would do. I used to do all of that. I used to love doing all of it as well. It's not, you know, it's not the best use of your, best use of your your time. But now we have, you know, the workflow is great because I can do maybe two podcasts or. Week, Max and Enoch can do this, a similar sort of thing, and it just, it just shows up in our calendar. We click on the link and there's a guest there. All the information about the guest is is written to the side, and often I've spoken with them, you know, 15 minutes beforehand, or I'm already aware of their work, or whatever. And then it's easy. I finished the podcast. Then Jackie will write an introduction for me, so using the bio, and then I'll go and record that introduction separately, like what you said you were going to do here. And then that asset, the video asset, and the audio gets sent off to Suresh. He tidis it all up these days. I think a lot of the captions and the writing, we use chat GPT quite a lot to help us clean it up. Again, Jackie's the one who sort of directs a lot of that, and she'll, she'll use chat GPT and to come with a headline. We actually write with a headline. We've recently started working with a copywriter to help with some of the headlines and stuff. And we've tried all sorts of things with headlines. And certainly, Enoch and I got, I feel like we got a good handle on writing good headlines for a while anyway, and then, and then there's been points where we've kind of, we've outsourced it, or let other people do it. And it's not always as as effective, but that's quite a big thing actually, just finding, finding the headline, and then we manage it all. Nowadays, it's all managed inside of air table. So we just, you know, it's a kind of like, is this piece done? Is this not done? And it's great for me, because, I mean, I, all I do, literally, is do this as I just look at my calendar, click on the link, someone presses play, they ask me a question, or I ask them a question, and that's it, and then I'm done. But in the in the past, it was a lot more you know that we'd have a we used to use smart sheets, and then you'd be able to see what piece was done, when it was it ready, and we have publication dates all set up of when the podcast is going to go out, and all that kind of stuff. But again, it's we know that the team behind it is, is really, really good. And it took a little while to find it took a while to find the right people for sure. And you know, Enoch and I a few years ago we because we've been releasing a podcast pretty much every single week. So we never did seasons, yeah. And my advice to people is, do seasons, because, because you could just, like, block up a whole load of them and take a bit of a break. But we, we just went, and we just, pretty much, for the last, you know, 10 years or so, it's been almost a podcast every single week. And that, that's, that's that takes a lot. Actually,

Speaker 1

43:03

it does. But I think that unrelenting consistency is one of the biggest factors to the podcast success. Absolutely,

Rion Willard

43:11

absolutely, I would say the the number one reason why we've had any success whatsoever is just been pure consistency with it, with this one thing, the podcast has been the central consistent factor, and we've just done it again and again and again. And there's, yeah, I mean, between us, I think we've probably done in the realm of maybe 800 interviews, I reckon something like that. It's, it's quite a lot. And then there's lots of other videos as well that are that, are there, that we've produced. And, you know, we've, we've started doing more kind of little mini documentaries. Now that we're, we're starting to put together, I tell you what's interesting, though, for the vast majority of life of the Business of Architecture, podcast, Enoch and I always interviewed guests. And it's only been in the last 18 months that Enoch and I have started to interview each other.

Speaker 1

44:11

That's the trend these days. I think I'm seeing more and more podcasts kind of shift in that direction. It

Rion Willard

44:18

will. It's it works for a number of reasons. One is that now we have complete control over what was said. I honestly believe as well that we have we're in a position where our careers have evolved, where we've become, in a healthy way, unplugged from the architecture industry. So we're no longer practicing architects. I think that's a really important position to be, because we're not in we're not not like in the weeds of it every single day, but we're still working with it, and we've had that experience of being architects and being unplugged gives us this unique perspective on the industry. Where we can step back from it, and we can see how it's working, and we can be very critical of it as well. And I think we're entitled to be able to be critical of it because, well, we're architects, and we've gone through all of that kind of SLOG and trauma of the of the industry. So, you know, I'm quite happy to be in a position where we can call things out and and also, we've worked with, you know, over 200 clients in a very intimate capacity, and we've seen businesses. We've helped turn around businesses that weren't making profit. We've worked with some of the most successful practices, you know, small architecture businesses in the US, and we've gotten a real good level of insight. So now, when Enoch and I interview each other, or we talk about a topic, I feel like we can produce really good, valuable stuff. We can be more provocative. We can go deeper on a topic. We're not we don't feel like we have to be filtered by anybody. We don't care what the AIA thinks or the Riba thinks. We can say, whatever it is, we're not running the risk of upsetting, you know, some of our, you know, our developer clients or anything like that. So we can be a little bit more open and transparent about it. And also, we can talk very precisely and clearly about how businesses have turned around or solved some of these problems, where, I think, when we interview guests, many times their expertise is unconscious, so they don't actually know what it is they're doing for why they're successful, or why something's happened in their business, or sometimes they're not as successful as they're making out. And so that's so that kind of happens as well. So I feel like, you know, now Enoch and I, we can have a much more frank, open discussion about something. We can be much more kind of personalized with our opinions, and it's more valuable for the clients and and for listeners and the audience. And what we've actually found that since we've been doing that our engagement has shot up with comments. We get people who now, we used to have quite a long, protracted, you know, sales funnel off of the podcast, or we'd invite people into webinar trainings first, or we'd have, you know, I was saying I just did the cup of tea with Ryan, type of thing. And now we just have people just coming straight to us. They're saying, just heard your podcast on such and such, and think, how do I join your program that you were talking about? And so it's a very kind of direct call. And I would recommend that with anybody who's doing, you know who is, who's doing a podcast, is to make sure that you give yourself the opportunity to demonstrate your expertise and and show people what you what you can do. So don't, don't, don't forget to interview yourself or to have you on on the show. And you know, and then it's one of the reasons why I'm enjoying being the guest on other people's podcasts like this, because it's a kind of new, a newish thing, and you're like, Yeah, I want to be on the other side for the microphone for a bit, actually. So what it's like,

Speaker 1

48:09

that's, that's exactly what I've found, is podcasters are typically the ones asking the questions. They're not necessarily the ones talking, you know, being the in the spotlight, per se. But I

Rion Willard

48:21

think you've got to tread a line here as well, where you don't want to fall into the trap of being perceived as a journalist or being perceived as the media and at one point I I did want to be more like a media person, if you like. And then it became, actually, we've got a service to sell now. So if you're using a podcast as a professional services organization, you want to be able to do it so that you're still demonstrating your expertise in something and not become a journalist. And you don't want the industry to treat you like a journalist. Not that being a journalist is anything wrong with it. It's, it's just that you're, you're a consultant, you've got something to you've got something to sell. So you still want to make sure that we're showcasing the expertise. It doesn't need to be. You know, look at me. I'm fantastic. And blah, blah, blah, you can the podcast is still quite a subtle way of demonstrating expertise. And you can demonstrate expertise through asking good questions, for sure, absolutely. But it also, you know, give yourself that opportunity where you can be the one who's advising on on a podcast.

Speaker 1

49:33

That's, that's great advice, Ryan and I think that folks that are listening to this would be wise to follow that advice, especially if they're thinking about launching a podcast. Well, Ryan, I want to be respectful of your time. Thank you so much for sharing your story of the base the Business of Architecture. Your journey through being an architect, through launching the podcasts. Breaking up, breaking it off into the Business of Architecture. UK, bringing it back together with Enoch and the Business of Architecture. And just it's really cool to see how that's been the foundation of your growth and in your career. For folks that are listening to this, obviously, subscribe to the Business of Architecture. Subscribe to the Business of Architecture. UK, check out those episodes. But if folks that are listening want to connect with you, where can they find you?

Rion Willard

50:26

You can find me at Ryan, at the Business of architecture.com, you can email me. LinkedIn is probably a good place, LinkedIn or Instagram, I encourage people to go and follow me on there. I'm always posting lots of content, and you can engage with me, ask questions and happy to meet, happy to meet and talk to

Unknown Speaker

50:46

people. Excellent. Well, Ryan, thank

Rion Willard

50:47

you for your time. My pleasure. Thank you, John, and that's a wrap.

Speaker 2

50:51

Hey, Enoch Sears here, and I have a request, since you are a listener here of the Business of Architecture podcast, Ryan and I, we love putting this podcast together. We love sharing information as much as we can glean from all the other industries that we're a part of. To bring it back, to empower you as an architect and a designer, one thing that helps us in our mission is the growth of this podcast simply because it helps other architects stand for more of their value, spreads the business information that we're sharing to empower architects together, so architects, designers, engineers, can really step into their greatness, whatever that looks like for each individual. And so here my my simple ask is for you to join us and be part of our community by doing the following, heading over to iTunes and leaving a review of the podcast, and as an expression of our sincere thanks, we would like to give you a free CEU course that can get you one professional development unit. But more importantly, we'll give you a very solid and firm foundation on your journey to becoming a profitable and thriving architect. So here's the process for that. After you leave us review, send an email to support@businessofarchitecture.com let us know the username that you use to leave the review, and we will send you that free training. On the training you'll discover what 99% of architecture firm owners wished they would have known 20 years ago, and the other 1% well, they just didn't even know that. They didn't know. Head over to iTunes and leave us a review. Now this

Rion Willard

52:34

episode is sponsored by Smart practice, business of architecture's flagship program to help you structure your firm for freedom, fulfillment and financial profit. If you want access for our free training on how to do this, please visit smartpractice method.com or if you want to speak directly to one of our advisors about how he might be able to help you, please follow the link in the information. Hello, listeners. We hope you're enjoying our show. We love bringing you these insightful conversations, but we couldn't do it about the support of our amazing sponsors. If you're a business owner or know someone who would be an excellent fit for our audience, we'd love to hear from you. Partnering with us means your brand will reach over 40,000 engaged listeners each month. Interested in becoming a sponsor, please send us an email at support@businessofarchitecture.com the views expressed on this show by my guests do not represent those of the host and I make no representation. Promise, guarantee, pledge, warranty, contract, bond or commitment, except to help you be unstoppable. You.

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