Q+A with Andrew Holecek [#64] - Recorded 9/16/2021

6:54PM Sep 17, 2021

Speakers:

Andrew Holecek

Keywords:

book

meditation

question

view

dreams

lucidity

divisiveness

dream

feel

light

fact

practice

consciousness

called

talk

sense

continue

good

mind

completely

All my nice to see all my friends. You're the only friends I have. So I really enjoy to be with you all really. Plus doing it every every couple weeks gives me more jazz. You know I'm more into it. I'm more excited about it. So a couple things since I haven't seen you in a while housekeeping. did a really really fun, almost two hour interview this morning with my dear friend Charlie Maury based on his new book. wonderful surprise. We talk all about the power of breath. Trauma really are the stuff good sleep hygiene, what he saw great. So that's going to be processed, released probably in the next couple of days. So I'm excited about that. At least always puts up the new programs that are coming. So you know, this is my busy season so to speak. So the next big event is the two weekend deep dive. This is my annual first time I've done this line. Well wait, no, I take that back. I did it last week. Last year, I think two weekends. Deep Dive exploration of the natural meditations, lucid dreaming, Dream yoga. Also, the Sedona program, we got just a few seats left on that one. This is based on my new book called Okay, I'm mindful now what so is a week long exploration of the deeper aspects of mindfulness and post mindfulness practices. And then we're doing this program and planet Del Mar. Probably the most beautiful retreat center I have ever seen. Period. Absolutely jaw dropping north of Cabo San Lucas. And this is a silent semi silent meditation retreat with all kinds of cool things. So anyway, my opportunity to put up my lemonade stand in terms of what we're doing, but basically what we do on these Thursdays is respond to all the really great questions that get sent down. So I'm going to start with the ones that were submitted. And then transition into the live q&a. This is a chancellor we can talk virtually about anything we want. So not in any particular order, but it's kind of where they came in how they came in. From Murray hi Andrew Could you please elaborate they get these are from these are all over the place which is great. Can you please elaborate on the consciousness that continues from lifetime to lifetime? Its name description and how it operates in the Bardo and how it makes decisions for its future. Okay, I can do that. Uh, it's called the eighth consciousness, storehouse consciousness or in Sanskrit the Alia a la ya. Vig. Yana VI. J, na, na. There's a massive literature on this comes from the yogacharya tradition. number of books come to mind. Whoa, time. Probably the easiest one is by tech, not Han. I think it's called understanding our mind. The commentary on Basu Bondy's teachings on this, some 50 verses I think, really good stuff. Carl Braun holtsville, has written extensively on this massive three volume Compendium on the Mahayana literally more than you'll ever want to know. Really good stuff. And so it is, yeah, this is a really big topic, obviously, you know, talking about what is it that continues? Well, it's not it yet. And it's a it's a dimension of experience, called a substrate consciousness. Alan Wallace uses that term, he writes about this a lot as well, is the root of consciousness that does in fact, trans migrate, how it operates over a day, geez, this is a big one. It doesn't make decisions, so to speak.

Because it's unconscious, the eight consciousness is unconscious. It's basically the repository of habitual patterns and karma. And so it doesn't make decisions and the way we know it, it's like asking, Who decides what you dream and a non lucid dream, right? Who decides? Well, you don't because you're not lucid. What makes who makes the decisions, your habits. So it's similar to that is it that's what that's what decides in a dream, you don't decide if you're not losing your habits decide. And so it doesn't matter how it makes decisions, it doesn't make decisions. It's just the unconscious propagation of habitual pattern and habitual impulse. Now how it operates I am not going to be able to say too much on that because this is a really big topic. You know, this comes these up was teaching the eight consciousnesses comes from the yoga Chara, which is one of the most sophisticated refined philosophies ever to come out in India. It's super sophisticated, really elegant, there's a ton to say. And so talking about his operation is phenomenology. Murray is something that you really have to do a little legwork on, because it's such a big topic. But what else can I say about it? It's inextricably connected to the seventh consciousness and these these numbered consciousnesses, they're not eight different things or eight aspects of one kind of continuum. That's what continues, there's not an it. It's a continuum, an ineffable process that continues, and how it operates, you just have to dive into these teachings completely connected to the seventh consciousness, which is that's kind of the bad boy, Bad Girl consciousness. That's the aspect of mine that doesn't recognize its own nature. It's called the Krishna mollusk, the conditioned mind. And it does two really interesting things. Again, it's not separate, it's not completely the same as the storehouse, but it's also not separate. It is that aspect of awareness that looks back upon the eighth. And Miss takes it for itself. So that's why if you want to know what is the sense of self that continues, it's the eighth, but it's a mistake, literally mistake, because it's not a self, it's just a collection of propensities. So the seventh looks back upon the eighth mistakes it for itself, and it looks out one through six mistakes that for our other. And then in a really very sophisticated kind of complex feedback loop, that one through six feeds back in to actually create Eight. Eight is a bi directional process. So everything arises relatively from the eighth. But then one through six, and also seven comes back in to actually generate a contents of ate itself. And so that's what it's called, that's the tree that I would bark up. And it's definitely worth the effort. Because this is an extremely sophisticated description of the nature of mind, and consciousness, they will help you understand your meditation or help you understand your dreams, and it will help you understand what it is that continues after you die, at least according to this tradition. Okay, Rachel is the mother of luminosity. His mother luminosity only found at the time of death. I'll define what that is in a second. Any clear mind experience during the life during life this child luminosity? Yeah, and the rest of it is technical stuff. So the technical stuff Rachel was answered in the email that we just sent out a Monday group meditation sessions, they are recorded. Thursday, recession's are also recorded, we've been going through some changes that I explained in the last email with Andy electing to go into different ventures. So Bob, and other people coming in. And so we've been in a little bit of shuffling phase and a few things have slipped through. Because there's a lot involved in making this whole thing run. Basically, yes, Monday's recorded Thursday's recorded, and sometimes they don't get posted right away, because we have this gap. So that's easy. The mother luminosity, is it only found at the time of death? No, it's not? Well, yes or no. So what Rachel is referring to is this wonderful imagery in the Bardo teachings have what's called a child luminosity of the mother luminosity. And so the mother luminosity is is what we return to at the moment of death, the mother of your mind, the child luminosity. So at that level, yes, the mother is only found at the moment of death. And that context, yes, the mother is only revealed when you return to her lap. Again, don't think literally here, I think politically nuthall politically, that mother luminosity is only found at the time of death. And so when we have a glimpse of that when we recognize that during the life, that's the child luminosity.

And so by definition, they're different mother only arises at the moment of death child is our experience or of that during the course of life. So any clear line mind experience during this life is char luminosity. Yes. So there you go. That should answer that question. Okay. And I didn't get the name on this one. So I forgot these are cut and pasted from a number of different emails coming in. So I can't remember who sent this one. Maybe it's Rachel continuing. I just don't know. I think it's somebody else. So next question. I'm trying to reconcile feeling joy and experiencing inner peace. With all the suffering in the world. sometimes feels like a betrayal to my fellow man. I realized dwelling on all the badness will not change things, but I feel like it is almost my duty to keep it all in the forefront of my mind. If I should promote myself only so much contentment. Oh, I have to chuckle I'm not laughing at you. I'm laughing with you. Yes. Don't allow yourself too much happiness. Again, I'm not laughing at you, I just find this whole the whole thing is actually really quite humorous to me and the gallows humor kind of way. Yes, we should not allow ourselves to be too content and too happy. So here's the way this works. This is the way the tradition talks about this in terms of twofold benefit, twofold benefit, benefit for self and benefit for others. And so the ultimate benefit for yourself playfully I often use this languaging. But ultimate benefit for oneself is realizing there isn't one. That the sense of self is an illusion. And so on that level, that is an incredibly joyous experience, in fact, when it's first literally experienced is called the first Bhumi is that the title of that movie is joyous. It's it's marked by a tremendous sense of release and joy and liberation, then, of course, that there has to be stabilized. And so that is something for you, the nine you you, and you can celebrate him that it's like His Holiness, the Dalai Lama, who is always cheerful, you know, I mean, you know, there's this most amazing Oh, it's right around the corner, this amazing statement of His Holiness when, when he was asked about the happiest moment of his life, and he said, I think right now. I mean, amazing, right? I think right now, like right now. And so for every moment for him right now, I'm the happiest I've ever been. And so why not be content? Why not be happy. And so when you have this ultimate benefit for yourself, you live in this constant level of contentment, but juxtapose with that is exactly what you're saying. There's tremendous compassion. suffering with the word compassion literally means to suffer with, and so completely, kind of concomitant with this ultimate sense of contentment, peace, for oneself is also this compassion, genuine heart of sadness, where then exactly like you're saying, you feel the heartbreak, you feel the suffering of others, because at that point, there is no other, the suffering of others becomes your own, and you want to get rid of it. And so you work with both one level unflappable, joy, contentment, peace of mind, from your side, unshakable, and at the same time, in a bit of mind big enough to work with both these experiences a sense of heartbreak, a sense of tremendous sadness and trauma of compassion, which will then express itself as enlightened activity in order to help the world. So yeah, reconciling that is a matter of understanding that you can allow yourself both of those you can allow yourself to feel this incredible sense of relief, release, liberation and the like. And then at the same time co emergent with it is this sense of tremendous compassion, sadness, and your desire to basically trying to propagate into others the level of contentment and satisfaction that you have realized through your own inner work. And so let me see if I'm missing anything here.

Yeah, it's not a betrayal to your fellow man, not at all to feel this way. One near enemy of theirs. And this is beautiful that you asked this question I wish I had the name for who asked this is that if we, in fact, just chill out in this feel good thing, if we just chill out in our contentment, that's not genuine awakening, that spiritual bypassing, that's just your comfort plan extending itself in meditative arenas. And so if you're hanging out in that space, in a somewhat bubble bath spiritual approach, then that's not the real deal, then that is something you do need to be aware of, because that is, first of all, it's not authentic, because otherwise you wouldn't have that feeling. And then you can use that as a metric. If you are feeling that there's something a little bit a mess, because then that feel good strategy. It's not the real deal. It's still highly provisional. So I realized early on all the badness will not change. That's true. Don't dwell on it, feel it, but don't feed it, don't dwell on it, but use it to inspire you to act to help others to relieve their suffering. So somewhere in there, I think is the truth. Okay. So from Patricia in a lucid dream, when only action is noticed. What about the psychological aspect analyzing its meaning? Yeah, good question, Patricia. Well, the really cool thing about dreams right is they have a vast spectrum. of usages and ways of engaging the dream. So when you're working, especially with dream yoga, zero interest in dream analysis. Now, this doesn't in any way dismiss the validity, the power of doing dream interpretation, Dream analysis, I still do it. It's super important. But that's our dream yoga. And that's really not even lucid dreaming. So you could, if you wanted to, you can do what you're talking about is a witnessing lucid dream when you're just watching the action. And you're not really engaging it. That's a witnessing lucid dream. So in that case, if you're engaged in witnessed lucid dreaming or pet lucidity, you can watch the arising of the dream content from a lucid arena. And then usually what happens post dreaming, you come out, you can actually work to analyze it. If you wanted to do that, that's completely kosher. That's a way to juxtapose a little bit of lucid dreaming with classic dream, interpretation, psychological analysis and the like. And so, again, Dream Yoga has no interest in this, it's a little bit like the difference between meditation and therapy. When you're in meditation, you don't care at all what arises in the mind, the relationship to the arising is what important, you don't analyze it, you don't interpret it, you establish a new relationship to it, therapy, that's when you do all that kind of work, which is great. Dream yoga, same no interest whatsoever in the content, the issue, the practices relating to that content, transforming no interpretation, none. Now that doesn't mean that isn't valid to do this. Again, super valid. It's just a different bandwidth of applicability. So in a lucid dream, or witnessing lucid dream, you can watch the arising, then afterwards, usually post dreaming, then you can go back, write it down, journal it and do the analysis, the psychological stuff. You know, it's really like I think, I think it was Freud, but not 100%. Sure. I think Freud said something like, you know, an uninterpreted dream is like an unopened letter. Well, True enough, right. But dream yoga, deeper, lucid dreaming is more interested in why was the letter sent in the first place, right? Why was the letter sent in the first place? It just goes deeper. Okay. Yeah, and then here's a couple of really good questions tied into the other one that these are closely connected distance persons from Julie and the next one from Virginia, very similar. These are good ones. They're all good, but these are clickable. The earth seems to be barreling towards inevitable chaos and destruction. In terms of climate upheaval, political divisiveness and a pandemic, I find it increasingly difficult to wake up without anxiety and fear for the future of my family loved ones and humanity in general. In Buddhist terms, in the midst of this degenerate age, how can I foster a positive outlook? On the cushion I can rest in awareness of my Buddha nature, increasing my experience of the unchanging ground of being. But off the cushion, I sometimes come close to panic. How can I reframe my view to stay open, relaxed and receptive? What a great question, Julie. And I honestly I love these sorts of questions. Also, the next one coming up from Virginia super similar. And that is, yes, this planet is in really big trouble.

And the more aware we are of it, the more sensitive and realistic in fact, some studies have shown parenthetically that usually depressed people are actually more in contact with reality. I mean, how interesting is that? I'm not going to get too much on a rant on this unless you want me to, because I'm super into this sort of thing right now. reading all this literature, about the climate crisis and everything. I mean, we're in very deep, serious trouble, definitely heading towards the six Matic mass extinction. And it's not looking good. But you know, what we need to do is at least what let me say what I do is always maintain this view. And this is where we have to again, juxtapose both kind of relative and absolute perspectives, complementarity of using both and helping the absolute to inform the relative so that the relative doesn't kind of overwhelm the absolute and so therefore, if it does, then you you become panicky you feel like, you know, I can't do anything, we're just so screwed, I should just, you know, jump off a cliff. So the way I work with this, and I want to refer you to some sources here, my dear friend, David Loy, when I interviewed him if you're a nightclub member, and I think you are truly listen to the interview I did with David, he, we had talked about this thing for 15 minutes. It's a really beautiful, elegant answer. also read his Marvel. Book, eco Dharma, Buddha's teachings for the ecological crisis. He talks about this a lot. And so what what he says, and I'm echoing this from my own experience as well is we harness the view of the right view of perfect purity of basic goodness that if reality is really perceived properly, even in the midst of this three ring crap show, it is no matter what's happening, it's fundamentally sacred. It's pure, it's actually divine, if we just leave it alone. And so we hold that as the fundamental view that if we just leave reality alone, don't manipulate it. Don't adulterate it, don't co OPT it, don't transform the sacredness into profanity. The world is sacred, even now, even in the midst of all this. And so we maintain that view because that's what keeps us going forward. But again, if we take excessive refuge in that view, then that that absolute testing approach can turn into spiritual bypassing. In fact, I heard this thing was like Ken, my friend Ken Wilber shared the story with me just blew me away. He said he was talking to this, this Buddhist guy, pure lead some pure land guy. Amazing. It's kind of an extreme statement. But apparently, this this purely on teacher said, You know, I really that concerned about what's happening to this earth, I'm going to go to sukawati when I die. It's like what I mean, that's classic spiritual, bypassing, that is a colossal misunderstanding. So what we do is we maintain the absolute view, Julie, again, that's in a certain sense, ultimate benefit for oneself is an ultimate benefit for ourselves, realizing that, that when we go for the walk, that when we recharge, when we're with our

you know, connected to reality, we realize that even in the midst of everything that's happening, this world is magnificent, beautiful. And then on that absolute bed, then we acknowledged just the horrors of the relative. And again, I don't need to list them off, you know, it's really, really bad. And so therefore, if we have the absolute view, we can then step into the relative arena, with real conviction, power, strength, and we will not get burnt out. If we have this fundamental view, we actually feel things more, but it hurts us less, because we don't give it a place to land. And so then we continue, we have this this positive outlook, because the nature reality is in fact positive. We understand that all the horrors are coming from manipulations and loss of this right view, tremendous ignorance, tremendous confusion, tremendous egoic over overhaul, I mean, overrun. And then because we're so secure in the ultimate refuge, then we can step into the world, and do what needs to be done without feeling we're going to be overwhelmed without panicking, without really freaking out too much. And we do so without expecting anything in return. It's like one of the low junk bond trading slogans, don't expect applause. You simply do what's right, because that's the right thing to do. And so this is where the importance of view is so important, so critical. If we really get this then we can always take refuge in this fundamental space. And then from that space, we can act with ceaseless talk about renewable energy, talk about green energy. This is a renewable green energy view where you never get exhausted because you're not taking things personally because there is a person taking them. And you act selflessly endlessly as a representative of reality on behalf of reality. And so again, I I work with this stuff a lot these days, and especially since I've developed a wonderful friendship with David who lives just down the road, we hang out on a weekly basis. Now we talk about this stuff all the time. So read his book, eco Dharma, and then continue to kind of strengthen your view. And then, with an appropriate understanding of that view, then you will act spontaneously. It's like, well, Suzuki Roshi, once said, very beautifully said, you know, strictly speaking, there are no enlightened beings, there's only enlightened activity. So enlightened activity is basically lightning activity. nobody's doing it, right. nobody's doing this. It's just a selfless expression of reality acting on his behalf. And because of that, there's no you won't get burned out, literally has tremendous practicality and replicability. So work with those two views really. And realize that we have to help is the only game in town. And if we don't, and I'm saying this with every single program I'm doing, of what relevance is it that we're doing or what relevance is even Buddhism Buddhism becomes irrelevant. Spirituality becomes irrelevant. Meditation becomes irrelevant. If it can't help the world right now, because not only will Buddhism, meditation and spirituality go extinct, the entire human species will go extinct unless we act. So this next question is a follow up on that. So I'll pause and read that. And this is a longer rendering of the very similar thing. So this is one virgin. Yep. It seems that our country and really the world continues to be trapped by so much divisiveness that is making the already existence Terran a fair bit worse. And really, what can we accomplish if we're forever at war with each other us over here versus them over there?

I've heard Charles Eisenstein suggests that our worst enemy is not climate change, or COVID-19, or any other number of existential crises, which actually have solutions, but rather is that divide, which have not mended will be humanity and its undoing because this is a long question. I'm going to pause and run some commentaries. I go through it. First of all, I completely agree. But I would actually go even deeper than Charles's assessment of this. This divisiveness is fundamentally the divisiveness of us from reality itself. So this is a nature of mind Deficit Disorder goes even deeper than what Charles is saying here. I completely agree with he's saying what he's saying. But that's a relative expression of this foundational fracture, tying it in to the earlier question about what continues, this is exactly what the seventh consciousness does. That's what causes this fundamental divide at the level of mind itself. So what child says is absolutely right. But there's even a deeper, more fundamental expression of that. So what he's talking about is actually an expression of what these teachings are pointing to. And that's why these teachings when they're done properly, a natural consequence of the fundamental healing of this fracture and divisiveness, that's real divisiveness, thinking that you're separate from the world, thinking that the world is dualistic. Thinking that the world is made of matter that solid lasting and independent. That's the fundamental divisiveness from that is the epiphenomenal expression of what you're talking about, and what Charles is referring to. So what we're doing here, if we really relate to it properly is tremendously powerful, tremendously curative. Because we're going to the very roots of the whole problem of wish all this other stuff is just a byproduct of ignorance of blindness of selfishness. So what we're doing here is going to the absolute Foundation, the root of the whole crap show. Okay to continue the current vaccine issues seems testament that if we don't heal this divide, we will create a perfect opportunity to wage war against each other. And, again, interjection if we're even get that far. I mean, one small point here. Again, I used to say, I shouldn't bring politics into this stuff. I've completely changed my tune on that. Bring everything into this stuff right now. Because, again, otherwise, what are we doing here. So if we don't get this vaccine thing under control, there's going to be a monster variant coming out. It's just a matter of time. This is the way evolution works. These viruses are at a very adapted adaptation. If we don't reach herd immunity, sooner or later, there will be a monster variant that will put Delta the shame that none of these vaccines will even touch and you're gonna have to start all over again, ground zero, the next virus will be even more deadly, more contagious, and then things are really going to go out of control. So it can get a lot worse as you're saying. Okay, a lot. Really, is the vaccine issue. The most important thing? No, it's not. But it's an important thing. It's not the most important or is healing what may be common unhealable wounds more important. Yes, that is more important. But again, why not work with both? Why not do both relative and more absolute? do both?

I find our current culture filled with haters who have just been waiting for a victim to dump their hatred on totally agree. If I'm dumping hatred on someone else, because of their personal decisions, I have become the hater. Bingo. I'm seriously concerned the spiritual teachers address this hate and fear mongering dynamic before we dig ourselves in so deeply that the world will crumble around us. While we're still fighting about who is right and who is wrong. I mean, I totally agree with you. And then this final statement from Rumi, this is what I close my book dream yoga, close my book with this quote, out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and right doing there is a field I'll meet you there. Shouldn't this be our goal? Yes. But again, do both right. So for yourself, personal path, spiritual work, inner work, do all the stuff that constitute psycho spiritual development because otherwise when you step into the world, how do you really know Know what you're doing is beneficial. How do you know that you're just not acting out your projections, your prejudices, your imputations your hopes and fears. So that's why any good therapist put it in that kind of umbrella. Under that rubric is they always work in therapy themselves to clean up their own stuff. So they before they stopped out to help others, they, they do so with some level of purity. And so to me, it's always like, this is why I love this integral approach to things. Do all the inner work, continue to do your meditation continue to do your spirituality continue to stabilize your view, continue continually to deconstruct your sense of self realize egolessness because from that, then everything we're talking about arises spontaneously, naturally, you don't even have to think about it. So we continue to do that. But then we also don't wait. Oh, I'm gonna wait till I attain the first Bhumi to help the world. No, no. Then also help the world do what what is appropriate in terms of activism. And there, you know, the levels of activity are endless. Again, David Lloyd in his beautiful book, eco Dharma has a whole section about like what you can do. So check that book out. So these are wonderful questions from Julian Virginia. And we can talk about this. This is heated charged topic, super important. Okay, last one from Tim, and then we can open it up for the live people. This is a long one again, and I'm not going to read the whole thing with your permission, Tim, because I've already received a ton on this topic. And I will direct you to some sources on this. But basically, I'm wondering if you can address again, a will to a certain extent, Tim, but not a time because I talked about this a lot. The question of the use of psychedelics on the spiritual journey. Back in my teens and early 20s, many of my friends were using them extensively and although they experimented a bit, for the most part I avoided and the extensive involvement me to since I began meditation and yoga same with me, I wanted to go the more natural route rather than the mph approach at the time is you fairly recently mentioned it and clearly reassessing their values and multiple arenas. They certainly do show us a different state of mind. So I'm going to pause there. Yes. You know, this deals with what's called neuro phenomenology. Big, big fancy word for phenomenology, his experience. neuro phenomenology means that there's a neurological brain correlate to that experience. And what that means is that you can induce phenomenology, you can induce transcendent experiences by what you do neurologically with these empty gems. And there's provisional validity to that is even as a type of Tantra where body is as important as mine. So if you engage in these agents, and I'm putting every possible disclaimer, I can, I'm not endorsing these their legal issues, these agents are illegal. I'm not saying run out there and start tripping on this stuff. I'm not saying that I'm just providing the information, then you can make your own decision. So when you get thrown in jail, you won't blame me. But you can use these agents as a way as a pointing out transmission or pointing in transmission to actually point out certain dimensions of thing but then the question is, well, what do you do that when you do just keep tripping out on stuff? No. You use it as pointing out transmission. Then you go to the cushion to stabilize then inside because fundamentally you don't need these agents. They can be helpful and there are some teachers and I can't recommend them. I this is just a really tricky touchy topic. So I will not recommend there are people doing stuff. This is really tricky stuff. You know, there are other places in Costa Rica now. You can do that iOS, good thing, you Peru that kind of thing. Again, I'm not saying do that. I'm saying it has a place. It's a very cautious place. I read all the literature on this. There's more and more coming out.

James Kingsland wonderful book, am I dreaming? Michael Pollan's wonderful book, Stan grof has been working with this stuff for 65 years. So there's a ton out there all the names you mentioned here. Yeah, my familiar with all those. So here's you mentioned something about a friend who has stage four lung cancer and is extremely afraid of dying. These are the instances where Yes, if the person is open to it, and that's the kicker, are they open to it? If you can go somewhere underground in San Francisco or whatever? And with the proper set and setting have someone guide you through this, you know, 60 minutes did a whole special on this like two years ago after Michael Pollan's book where Stan grof in his book ultimate journey, you might want to recommend that book to this person, Stan grof, in this book, ultimate journey, talks about well before the recent wave of interest in this how he's been using these agents to help people die for decades. So if this person has no Do it. Give them Stan's book, see if you can find someone who does this and then use your own intuition and judgment to see if it's of any of any value to you. So, because I've read quite a bit on this team, if that's okay with you, I'll let that go for now. But read those books, Michael Pollan's book, James Kindle books and grass book. There's a lot coming out on this topic. And I think I've shared this before I have completely changed my tune on these things. I used to be really conservative, and say, No, no, no, no, no, please, no, please, I think it does have a place. But again, I'm not endorsing it. I'm just saying it has a place. Finding that place and working with it then is a very individual, personal idiosyncratic journey. That has to be done extremely carefully, judiciously with proper set and setting. This is not a recreational enterprise. The way the container The principle is hugely important with these things. But if it's done properly, the data is there, the research is there. It can really help people dislodge their identity, it shakes the snowglobe, as they say, not only for fear of death, but other really intractable psychological issues. These agents can be so powerful because they're relatively found fundamental. They can shake the whole snowglobe and completely remove a person's fear of death completely break the habit patterns of some of these other issues. Okay, those are all the ones that came in. And so now for the live q&a, Elisa will help us here. If you have your hand raised. She'll call on you and we'll start dancing through some live questions.

All right, I'm going to start with you, Glenda.

Hi, there. Thank you. Oh, I'm coming to you because of Vicki Simon and Deb Zimmerman with Timo seconds. xo chin group in LA. Oh, nice. Yes. And then I also am a student of Lama Surya das. So

speaking of LSD.

Well, it also, but my basic deal is I study a Course of Miracles on man. And what I want to ask about ultimately is stabilizing the clear light mind is and they that group, Debbie, and then you know, your dream Yoga Book. On paint, you know, this thing about look at things as if you're looking at them from the back of your, of your eye. I didn't know what I was doing. But when I read that, I realized that what has occurred due to this advanced forgiveness that A Course in Miracles teaches that you look beyond the form to the immortal spirit that that's there the clear light that's there. That's the reality that and this over four or five years of practice in this I call it fake it till you make it. I didn't know what none of this man, I just damn did it. But it works. Folks, I'm here to tell you this stuff, we're and I meditated. But this meditation, I do an hour a day with tmos, who this really took me to another level of being able to go to this clear like mine, but now I want to stabilize it, which is where you know, I come I just come back. Beyond and then last month, surely Aloma says it's the mind turn inwardly recognizing its nature. So my mind turns in on itself. And I just see the clear light, and it's spread out everywhere. I don't have a hitter skull. But yet these projections from collective ego unconscious are here that I see. But they're filled with light too. But I just keep I keep going back into my mind the clear light, not come back out here, realize that I've focused, I've grabbed onto something or push something away, made it real, then I go back to my mind, is that how are you? You just keep doing that till finally you can stabilize this view? You know what I mean?

Yeah, I totally know what you mean. So a couple of things. So yeah, that's sort of an order of what you said, I really like what you're talking about developing in my languaging, this kind of X ray vision where you see through the outer superficiality of physical form, into the true nature of the being and therefore, connect to the universality of the human condition. And then fundamentally, once you get past the costumes of the outer forms, we all share this fundamental divinity and so I love it. It's kind of the vision of the superior man or woman and Tao is Superman, Superwoman, X ray vision, come to appearance is into the core with him. So two other things then secondly, your languaging is actually very interesting. And so one thing that may be helpful to refine your view is you never you don't really go to the clear light mind. You leave it so Yeah, yeah, wait, even the way you mentioned that phrase that is regulatory because you don't go to the clear light mind. There's only the clear light mind. That's

the default. Yes, it's my true self. Yes. So you don't go

to it, you leave it. So that's the thing to look at. There's only the clear, light mind. So what you then do what becomes the path is stabilizing that recognition. That's the key, right? So, as Houston Smith, I say, here's this quote from forgotten truth whose book all the time, the you know, process of the path is to transform flashes of illumination into a biting light. And so then what we do is we just flash and what does that mean? Well, if you really look at the somatic, visceral, equivalent of you know, they say flashing the clear light mind, you will discover that what it means is opening, opening, opening. And so when we leave, so the issue is like going to the clear, light mind, because that's all there is the issue is leaving it, how do we leave it cracked

with a thought, yeah, I'm attracted to something I grab on to it, or I push it away, make it real.

Exactly. So when you leave it, that's always more of contraction, the contraction literally gives birth to self another. Like attraction isn't secondarily expressed as grasping. And so the display is not the problem. It's the relationship to the display. That's the problem. So the way you stabilize it is through strengthening your view. And then just continuing to flash that is often as you can, throughout the day, short sessions repeated frequently. Open, open, open and realize it's always hiding in plain sight. There's nothing. It's nothing but yes. in plain sight, yes. The path of practice is simply recognition, like it says on the Tibetan Book of the day, recognition and liberation are simultaneous. So one last thing, and then we'll let this go for now really quick questions. The last thing is, again, a very interesting, subtle changing in the languaging, you talked about how phenomena, or somebody says something like a lot saturated with his light in this light. World phenomena is the light, the phenomenon is the light. So when you look up now, everything that you see, that is the light, that is the clear light mind, you're looking at frozen light. And so therefore, again, the languaging is also somewhat revelatory. That's that's the light is not in objects. Objects are the light. And so that again, also reinstates the proper view, there is only the clear, light mind under any circumstance. There's that's all there is, period. And hard stop, full stop. That's all there is.

Yeah. Now, Andrew, so yes, there's so the clear, like I said, it's spread out all over the earth. But yet the collective egoic unconscious has projected these forms these false images, that yet they're filled with light it reflects on,

say that there's a collective egoic unconscious that that doesn't really speak to me. There are collective propensities. Because if you if you talk about the collective ego or consciousness, you're reifying something that's just a mere karmic predisposition.

Yes, yes. Don't solidify that. Okay. Oh,

we are the ones that mostly out of fear. We are the ones that have this insatiable lust for frozen, like we are the ones that freeze it out of fear. And so doing the fear results in a contraction, and the contraction is actually what generates both a perceiver and the perceived. So this contraction I'm talking about gives birth to twins. And so the take home message here, how to work with this contraction sensitize yourself to the infinite forms of contraction. And therefore every time you feel that contraction that you have to do is use that obstacle as an opportunity to open. So now every time you feel the contraction, which is all the time, every time you grasp afterthought, you're contracting, every time you have a felt sense of me, that's a contraction. When you feel that now you recognize that for what it is right view. And then you apply the antidote on the spot, which is what? Open you know, the Buddha is the synonym for the open. Buddhists is not just the awakened ones but the opened ones and so open open open and you realize oh my gosh, it's it's been here all along. That's all there is.

So for final thing frozen light is that image that she seems to show up out there. Is that what you're calling well,

any any sense of the illusion of out there itself is frozen like so. Okay, here's the other thing when you talk about light, that's what we know is form. So when you when you talk about the clear light mind Look up. This is the clear light mind. Anything that you see is separate form that's frozen, clear light mind.

Okay. Oh, thank you. Oh, well, I hadn't thought of it that way. Thanks. You're welcome. Thanks for the Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it.

All right, let's see. increases lis. How is that right? purpose?

Hi. Hello. It's really interesting, because my question, do you hear me? Yeah, yeah, Mike, he was about the frozen light, or the light. As I'm practicing since quite a while with I found out that I still have the conditioning that my body is, is matter. So I know since decades, it's you know, quantum physics and all this stuff. But you really have to recondition it to, to get to change it. Right. So I did it since some months. And the experience is that a lot of the self, the feeling of being myself, this is with that

was the very last thing you said. I'm sorry.

Um, a lot of what I I experienced as myself. Yeah.

Yes. Is and then you said something, and I didn't hear it being your site.

Yeah. I hope the connection is better now. I said, a lot of what my conditioning about being myself disappears with this practice.

Beautiful.

Okay. Yeah. So, like being fresh and new. And what I wanted to share, next to the fact that this is very effective. I'll change the room. Maybe you hear me better than

I can hear. Oh, you're good. You're good.

Alright, what I, what I experienced last night, is that my, my body is totally empty. And I knew that from you know, Reggie race, meditations with closed eyes, that the body disappears. But last night, I was practicing Qigong. And I was totally awake with open eyes and even like, the TV ran somewhere. And it still it suddenly happened that I experienced my body totally empty. It was really, really pleasant.

Just going here. Yeah, I was going to ask you, how did you feel was a pleasant or was it a little bit? frightening?

No, no, it was totally pleasant. And I want to, to have more. I just, it just happened also today. And I thought, I'm starting with my body or it starts with my body. But it will ripple out to the totality I hope. Correct. So I just wanted to hear your opinion about that.

I mean, it just makes me smile. It's beautiful, I guess just absolutely spot on. And eventually, you know, what you will discover in Reggie also writes about this is that your body will become replaced by the cosmos itself, right? So this is this is a great bargain, right? So you give up being somebody to become everybody, you become you give up being yourself to become the universe. That's a pretty good deal. And so if we understand that, then what you're feeling you'll continue to again, stabilize it, enhance it, until eventually there won't be even the slightest flicker of reference even to my body that will completely disappear. And it probably did win. Yeah, it's very good. You're sharing something that happened post exam, and then you append these terms. So

it was like I could go with the hand through my body. You know, like, going through a wall. And it was like just my clothes. Were the border was something on. Do you know there there is a fairy story about a man who has no body And who has to put on clothes. So nobody runs into him. We read this, this story when I was in grade school in English. And it felt a bit like that. You should.

It's beautiful. You should read there's a, I mean, if I had two seconds, I could run out and get the cool for you. In, in the book shamballa, the sacred path of the warrior. There's an incredible paragraph where he writes about exactly this experience and how it is that when we put out our clothes, were dressing up space, when we put on cosmetics were cosmetic sizing space. And when you read it, you could say, Is this a quantum physicist writing this or is it a mythic? And so we can use? In this case, parenthetically, the insights of quantum mechanics to really talk about very similar territory to realize the the illusory nature of the self sense in the body itself. So all I can say it's good for you. It's fantastic. Thank you for sharing. It's

beautiful. Okay, so thanks a lot. Thank you.

Keep it up. Beautiful. Makes me happy.

All right. Now we're gonna get to Rachel. Okay.

Hey, Andrew. It's Rachel. Hi. Thank you for all your enlightened expositions I really enjoyed I also learned a lot over the past few weeks. So to follow up on the clear light mind that the previous attendee asked, I'm going to reframe my questions in the following way. One is W ILD. Wake induced lucid dreaming, the induction of it, I was gonna ask you, you know, sometimes when my body feels tired, I actually just, like, fall straight into slumber. But if I keep on working with the clear light mind, then I should be able to more or less dissipate the slumber, right and then carried that wakefulness into my sleep, as opposed to just letting myself drop into a ball of darkness when I go into wild. Wild, right? Right. So

two subtle things your there's a slight difference between wake initiated lucid dreaming and wake initiated lucid sleep. So when you use wake initiated, lucid dreaming, that's a way to bring awareness with you today into the dream state. So you're talking about something that's even deeper than that. That's awake, initiated lucid sleep. And yes, indeed, with this is considered, by the way, one of the highest accomplishments of the yogi, it's really difficult. It's very subtle, where you, in fact, can maintain a sliver of tacit awareness that basically maintains itself as the coarser dimensions of mind, in fact, dissolve back into the eighth consciousness in the body. But that's, you know, that's really kind of advanced, that's postdoc level, spiritual practice, it's not so easy. But we can aspire to do it. And and so doing even trying cultivates a heightened sensitivity of mindfulness and awareness that eventually with tremendous proficiency is you're suggesting, you can, in fact, as outrageous as it may seem, develop a complete 24 seven awareness where you literally don't sleep, the mind just goes from gross to subtle to very subtle, like a dimmer. And you maintain this test that level of Turia, the fourth, where you simply bear witness to whatever rises in the outer domains without ever losing awareness altogether. So that's pretty dire for additional to put it mildly. But still, we make some segue, we can make some headway into that by working with waking, lucid dream, and then maybe eventually trip into wake up, initiated lucid sleep. So I'll pause for a second to see if that's where you want it to go with this, or Sure, that's

fine. So I'll just try to just cut through that the physical slump or the physical fatigue. And

in fact, one way to work with this, like when I did sleep yoga practices, there are several ways there's several little kind of, I wouldn't say tricks, but tips for working with it. One and I use this when I do international travel, is to stay awake for a day or two, until you're just incredibly exhausted. Because what happens is when you're super exhausted, the mind can drop rather clearly, very quickly, like a big rock because you're so tired, you plunge right into sleep. And so sometimes that rapid descent actually facilitates recognition. It makes it easier but the other thing to augment the as Rachel to support it, is to work with the formless meditations during the day, because that's what you're attempting to recognize clear light mind today. And so this is where the formless meditations come in, that allow you In fact, to, you can say fall asleep, but you're really falling awake, in your daily meditation. And then these are the people when they do these kinds of practices, those are the ones that their mind never turns off. Because during their meditation, they're able to dial it down, dim it down, to do these extremely subtle dimensions of formless awareness, precisely where you go when you fall into the non expressive component of the clear light line. And so this this was a real quick point of clarification. Because on one level, what tends to and I got confused about this for a while I said, like, something's not really clicking here for me. And that is that on one level, we're talking about the clear light mind is being everything, which is true. That's all there is. Period, under any circumstance, that's period. Done deal. That's all there is. Yeah, there is something also, you know, we talk about, well, I'm going to descend into the clear light mind when I die. I'm going to descend into the clear, light mind when I fall into deep dreamless sleep. Well, how do you reconcile that on one level, you're saying clear, light mind is everything. on another level, you're saying? Well, I'm going to go to the clear light mind in these refined states. And so the way to reconcile that is that what brings about sometimes heightened capacity for recognition, in deep dreamless sleep or even the death process is the display is turned down. That's the difference. Because we lose a little bit like the earlier question, we can't remember the person's name, from the Course of Miracles is that we lose the essence of the display, we get lost in that light. And so sometimes it's helpful to lessen the display to recapture the essence. And this is what happens in deep meditation, you're turning down a display, so you don't get lost in the mind turned out to BlueJeans. Same thing happens in deep dreamless sleep, same thing happens when you die. And so that's one way to reconcile clearlight mind being everything. And clear light mind being what I descend to in sleep and dreaming meditation is just in those states, the display has been turned to zero. And therefore the on one level, it's easier to recognize the clear light mind because the display has been completely turned off. So that just helps understand the how those two expressions of clear light mind actually work together.

Okay. Okay. Thank you for the clarification. If I may ask you a simple question. I, in the past couple of weeks, I noticed that I've been practicing losing your form during the day. So I actually noticed that my, the, the vividness of my dreams at night has dialed down a lot. Like it's getting fainter and fainter. I just, I know it's there, but it's very faint now. So it's been washed away. So I guess I hope I'm on the right track.

Yeah, you know, here's the here's the thing with this, you know, the, the the, the path of lucidity is it's not a linear process. It's like the stock market, right? Some days, you're really reaping the dividends. You're cashing in, and you're like cooking, and you're lucid dreams all the time. And you're like, Oh, my God, I got this down. And then you enter this bloody drought where like, nothing is happening. You're Oh, my God, I'm a failure. Oh, geez, I've lost it. I'm a loser. I can't do this. And so this is incredibly normal. It's super common. Yeah, Jeff, keep going. Because these are all experiences. Yeah, good or bad. And what basically will allow you to mature is just a simple otter constancy. You know, like, I have a little scroll upstairs from the Dalai Lama. You know, you've probably read it where he says, Never give up. Never give up. Never give up. So you're in a drought, you keep going. You're in a high, don't, don't let the highs carry away. Don't let the lows take you down. Just keep going. Now, that doesn't mean that you can't have obstacles. This is where it gets a little bit tricky, because there are times when in fact, you could be doing something so to speak wrong. When they say there's no such thing as wrong meditation. I don't know where that came from. That's just not true. It's like Yogi Berra, you know, the great sage, Yogi Berra, that baseball player, right? Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. So what does perfect practice mean? That's the subtle of event. That's where you need one on one conversation with a meditation instructor, someone who can really listen to an end to where you are, and speak with some authority about Oh, you may be a little bit too loose there, maybe a little bit too tight there. And so therefore, even though I just said you keep going, you have that has to be reconciled, in my opinion, with proper guidance because they're good There could be something that's a little bit of scans. And then we have to then you know, like a good diagnostic diagnostician, you have to assess like, Where's that coming from? Sometimes you'll find it. It's completely, seemingly unrelated. And by this, what I mean is that, in when you're doing really do practice like this, the foundation for success with these really deep levels of practices was what's called Sheila, which is like a quality of morality, ethics. In basic goodness, I mean, you have to have these really advanced practices, you have to have a handful of foundational preparatory views and practices in tech, or these higher practices won't work, you have to have this basis of purity of ethics, morality, goodness, and kindness, Sheila, they have to have some level of meditative stability that Samadhi then you have to have, or it's very helpful, I should say, the motivation of bodhichitta loving kindness and compassion. And so very often when you're working with these pretty advanced practices, this is why they say the preliminaries are more important than the main practice, okay, you have to have all these infrastructure things attacked, because otherwise you can hopscotch over into the somewhat contrary things thinking you've rushed to the goodies. Well, good luck. It's not going to work. They have built in safety mechanisms, there has to be these proper motivations, this proper infrastructure set or practices. This is totally what separates this from, from things like lucid dreaming, by the way, you don't need any of this for lucid dreaming. But if you want to go deeper, deeper meditation, deeper nocturnal meditation, you need all these other tributaries. And this is why when you go back over the two and a half years of nightclub, there's just all this material coming from all these different directions like well, what did all this stuff have to do? With lucidity? Everything, everything. It's not just the gadgets and the techniques, you have to have this Gestalt, this this nexus of causes and conditions in order to get into these really refined states. Okay,

okay. Great. So all right, I go back and review those. Okay. Okay.

Thanks, Rachel. Okay, we got just a few more minutes. Anybody else?

Yes, we've got a question in the chat. And we've got two raised hands. And before Glinda, Carol wanted to let you know that she sent you a direct message. So just in case you didn't see that, but I will unmute you Shanti.

Shanti.

There we go.

Thank you, Andrew. I am it's interesting. For some, I actually was smiling when I heard you pull out my thoughts and say, oh, I've lost it. I'm a loser. And things like that. So how did he know that? Because

Because I'm a loser too.

I mean, having a steady practice and meditation, and I just finished your body teachings with embodied philosophy crew. Thank you. And that really, you know, put me again, has given me hope, because every I, I've been wanting to kick up my practice a notch, right? Because it's been steady. I mean, I'm nervous. Not. I mean, everything was fine. So I was able to go through the COVID, my husband step, everything went, I mean, I could handle it all. But now I think maybe I'm getting too greedy for I've been wanting to pick it up a notch. So now I've been trying to read about your lucid dreaming. And one of the things you said was set an intention before sleeping. And so I set an intention, and I consciously tried to go to sleep. So much. So I forget. I mean, as Rachel said, everything becomes such a vague, it's so faint, like even my dream doesn't stick in my head. I used to keep a journal where I could vividly remember my dreams every morning, or whenever I dreamt, but given that gone, so I guess I do feel I have lost it. I'm losing it. Okay, and now I'm right in the twilight zone, where I'm neither in the real world, or I can be functional in the spiritual world, because when I'm in a group like this, I feel totally comfortable. But when I go out, I feel oh my gosh, I'm such a misfit. So how do I deal with that? I'm in a twilight zone.

Yeah. Have you tried drugs and rock and roll?

Yeah, that's my next thing that no.

Please, please excuse my No.

Carrying about this, maybe that's what I need.

Now I say that because we'll never we have to take this, you know, not too tight, not too loose with a sense of levity, a sense of humor or sense of playfulness, but also a sense of resolve, determination, perseverance. And so I think it's very important to work with both notes, kind of the theme for today is working with both these kind of vectors of growth and progress where on one level, yes, we do need to apply effort, somewhat paradoxically. Because on one level on an absolute level, the only thing you truly have to do is relax. I mean, that is it. But that's too simple. It's too that path is too steep. So then we have the path of effort. And so, for me, it is juxtaposing continuing with effort with proper effort and a supportive community doing everything that you're doing, but also doing so again, not too tight, not too loose, where you're doing it with a sense of determination, perseverance, resoluteness resolve, but also a sense of delight and playfulness and celebration, always remembering. And this is really this is so true. The journey is the goal. The journey is the goal. Because if you get too goal oriented, that massively backfires. I mean, Trump, LBJ even said, at a certain point, striving is the only obstacle so celebrate the fact that you're even on the journey, that you're even on the path that is monumental, the journey is the goal. And so we have that, and then we still have made these aspirations, well, I want to be a better person, I want to become more lucid, I want to become enlightened. That's fantastic. So we have these aspirations, where we always then it's helpful to join heaven and earth. And so one thing I do want to say, you talk about this, again, that the languaging sometimes is regulatory, you talk about the difference between the real world and your spiritual world. Well, part of what we're talking about today is recognizing that the real world is spiritual. So but that's the point you want to get to our with proper view, the real world is spiritual, it's not material, it's not physical, it's not made of matter. It's made out of this whatever you want to call it, clear light line, basic goodness, Buddha nature 100 words for that which cannot be worded. And so therefore, kind of, you know,

central part of this path would be in fact, entering lifetime retreat in the midst of daily life, where you start to mix your meditation don't don't separate your spiritual practice, from your physical life. Realizing that with a proper skill set your physical life becomes your spiritual practice. And that's one reason why the tantric methods virginiana and the like, are so helpful, because one of the things that characterizes that particular vehicle or tradition, all the different meditations that allow you in addition to standard mindfulness and awareness, which is beautiful, all the other practices you've been hearing about illusory form, clear, light, mind, practice, dream, yoga, sleep, yoga, all these other different very skillful means that allow you to bring more overtly, your real world life into your spiritual so that they fundamentally turn out to be the same. And so somewhere on there, you'll just find your way we always pinging off between extremes, not too tight, not too loose, trying too hard. Try Not at all. We make mistakes. And always remember my teacher kempo Rubik, J, one of the best team he best things he ever taught us was airing and airing. I walk the unerring path. That's a fantastic statement. mistake after mistake. I continue on the unmistaken path. And so yes, we're going to make mistakes. Yes, we're going to fall flat on our face. Yes, we're going to come across all kinds of seeming failures. But if we relate to it appropriately, every one of these failures is actually can be perceived as a success because it can be pointing out certain dimensions where you're stuck. And so therefore, if we have the right view, the right attitude, really, then at that point, there is no such thing as an obstacle. Everything can actually be brought to bear on the path, but understanding that that's not maybe so simple, that takes some deeper exploration. But in short, I get to just return to the main point not too tight, not too loose. Knowing that, yes, we're all faking it. We're all faking it till we make it. We're all pretenders. It's like, what is this Ziggy Roshi, say again? You know, you're you're perfect just the way you are. But you could also use a little improvement right in some way on there is is is the answer somewhere in there is the answer. And that way we stay inspired. We don't get dejected. We realize this is just part of the process. We dance between relative and absolute approaches, with a sense of levity and resolve. And then we just, you know, never give up. So, something like that. That's what comes to mind.

Yeah. Okay, thank you. I'll keep at it. One step at a time. Exactly. And I'm so glad I stumbled into this group. And so I think there is a facade for teachers, so there must be some. Yeah, there's something. Yeah, something that's driving me and stars properly. That's right. The Bardo teaching is led me here. And thank you so much.

Thank you for your great questions and your good heart. Okay.

And Kara. Okay.

Hi, guys. Hi, Andrew. I, I think you might have already answered this. It's not a really answer question. But it is about the lucid dreaming. And, of course, I'm never going to give up but, you know, maybe I was in a headspace when I first tried it, that I was so successful. I read your book, my husband died. I read your book. I said, Okay. Tonight, I'm gonna have a lucid dream. I had a lucid dream. The next night, I had another one. And, and I was, but now we're going on a year here. And the thing that happened after the deeper dive course last year, I think what happened is that it started to be work. And I am really understanding what you say about this play, because I was doing all the exercises and rotating my head and doing the breaths and, and it started to feel like I would go up to bed and I had this whole other thing to do. And so I stopped. I said, I can't do work at night. It's enough of a job just falling asleep. So I hear what you're saying. I and I'm my meditation has grown and grown. But I'm just curious why it would have been such a breeze to wake up those first. That first week of trying.

Beautiful. Yeah, really great question. It's hard to say for sure. But what what comes to mind, couple things that just hang up is, like you're perhaps suggesting one is the openness of beginner's mind where you didn't have all these expectations you weren't. It's one of the near enemies have all these techniques. You didn't have all this stuff. There was just this almost childlike, healthy naivete. That resulted in quality relaxation and openness, which then results in lucidity. And so this is also important. We're talking a lot about relative and absolute truths and paths. This is important in this context, because we can look at lucidity in two ways. One is the more common way of effort. The doing the techniques, doing the meditations doing all the infinite blah, blah, lies, totally works. Absolutely. But the more unconventional way is the more absolute way, which is that really just like the clear light mind lucidity is actually the natural state. And so therefore, lucid dreams are actually the natural dream. We just trained ourselves out of it, we find ourselves into normal acidity. And so from an absolute perspective, probably what was happening early on with you. Again, the only thing you need to do is just open and relax. That's it. And if you open and relaxed lucidity is a natural consequence of that openness. And so my guess is probably a little bit of that beginner's mind on the front end, natural sense of childlike wonder openness, the result of which was lucidity. And then somewhat ironically, you start to then engage in all these relatively pious skillful means and, you know, they kind of kicked you out of that space. So that sometimes can feel just like you're saying a little bit like wtf is going on here. That's one of the things so that's what comes to mind here. It's hard. It's hard to say exactly at this what happens, but it certainly seems to suggest something like that was going on. So what you could do now again, not too tight, not too loose. Drop some of the Silva stuff, relax more, or on occasions like this one. I have a really long drop myself every once in a while. I'll kick it up with some galantamine. If you haven't played with that, that can help jumpstart things a little bit, take four, eight milligrams, six hours after you go to sleep, that stuff can really help kind of pop things for you. And then otherwise, just with the other questions, you just, you simply keep going, not too tight, not too loose, stumbling, fumbling, finding our way, and then you'll probably come back into another functional period where they start popping like crazy. And then it's going to fade away again, it'll pop like crazy. And then it just does it's kind of a nonlinear thing, so to speak. Okay. Make sense? Yes. Thank you. Cool. Okay. Let me see if there's any other questions in the chat column here. Before we check out.

There is one from David.

Oh, yeah. David Wembley. Yeah, exactly.

Okay. Andrew, I very much appreciate your your discussions of the connection between a spiritual path and a healthy environment. I often find myself in wonder at how many people seem to disconnect their meditation path from the need to also have a path of compassionate action for the earth. In all living beings. Do I have any additional comments? You know, I guess I really don't at this point, David, outside of I totally agree with you. And this is why again, you know, you're hearing me lately read a lot about the work of my dear friend, David Loy. So one reason I love his work so much is because he is very engaged. Most of his books unusual on this regard, really applied Buddhism, really active Buddhist activism through social books on social theories of Buddhism, ecological approaches, I cannot recommend his approach more highly for this age. He just brings such a lens of insight, David, so if you have any connection, they haven't read eco Dharma yet. This should be must reading, in my opinion. So outside of referring you to his incredible book. You know, he has about 14 books out there. I read every single one of them. But I love the way he brings these teachings into application, how to use them today. So I just refer you to his work. He's a really wonderful human being as well. He absolutely practices what he preaches. Okay, so the rest of it looks pretty good. Yeah, from quickly, thank you. Yeah, so here's a statement, I would challenge that we're heading toward the sixth mass extinction, rather, we are in it to Shay, you're right. Thank you for the correction. We're not heading for it. We're in it. Totally agree. I mentioned this because I think we need to re language our view of the climate crisis to bring it more into the present. Excellent point, I completely agree with you. Thanks for that modification and corrections spot on 100%. So unless anybody has a final joke, contribution, comment or question, we can close for today. It's nice to be with you all again. So next week. We're going to do these every other week now, starting in October. On the alternate week, we're going to book group book study group is going to start up again, we'll have a link coming out for that all night club members. That's a freebie for all you. This one will be on per request on my first book of the dream trilogy, the dream Yoga Book itself. So we're gonna start that on October 7. And if it's anything like last year's Book Group, it's probably going to go six months. We had I had so much fun going through and just riffing away and just talking about these sorts of things with you. So unless there's one last minute thing here we can call it for today we can Linda did

say she had a joke if you want to hear if it's if it's a absolutely faraway jokes or you know,

I got one. Okay. Um, Adam and Eve are laying on the ground under a tree in the garden of Eden. And Adam returns to Eden says, I can't help but feel like there's a book in this

bloody awesome. Oh my god, I love it. I love it. Thank you. I

love you guys. So much.

That is like bloody perfect. So we do this completely geeky thing. We We not only now turn on all our cameras, but we also take off in true. Yeah,

before you hop off. We got a last minute submission question. Okay. I just got it from Max. It says, Oh, okay. I have prosthetic cross. I can't say the word. Thank you. On and Off throughout my life. I've gotten to the point where They are fairly commonplace, but due to them not being all the time, it is hard to tell what is just a dream. But what is more prophetic, right? This added on to the fact that every dream I have is extremely vivid. Sometimes being morbid in real life is actually become a bit stressful if I don't try my best to just ignore them as much as possible. Recently, I made a trip to California because my friend was supposed to be married soon, it was a last second idea and everything was planned within about a month. While we were driving to our Airbnb, I happened to notice a restaurant within a 32nd walking distance from our place that was really familiar. It was only after the second time seeing it, seeing it that I noticed it is a restaurant that I dreamed of detail for detail. A year prior that I had just ignored due to the dream seeming to be just random stuff. I'd never known this portion of San Diego existed. The trip was planned in a short timeframe, and it was a small mom and pop local place. All of this to say there's no way I could have known this place existed much less have gotten the exact details that I did. Down to the back room, I only glimpse to having the meetings that had the large slice of fish waiting to be cut, the man eating ramen in the grill on the floor. My question is more a matter of trying to have more tools to be able to deal with situations like this. Yeah. Tony, I would obviously love to know what the stream is an investment. But having the tools to be able to understand these events would allow me to be able to deal with this more in the future.

Yeah, good stuff. This is the whole issue of pre cognition, dreams of precognition prodromal dreams, this is really interesting stuff. I can say very briefly a little bit, again, broke up a little bit. So I didn't hear every single thing that was conveyed. But what comes to mind is these dreams are not at all uncommon, I have a ton of them. Deja Vu comes from this. They're not the phenomenology is actually relatively clear to state and then I'll give you some references to explore, because this stuff to me is mind bending. And that is that when you drop into these really deep states of dream and sleep at night, depending on how far down the rabbit hole you go, when you start to get to these foundational dimensions of being eighth consciousness, in such, these in below, these are dimensions that are pre temporal, pre spatial. In other words, they don't abide by the restrictions of space and time, which by the way, space time and causality are the three classic metrics of Maya illusion, they these are all constructs, time doesn't exist, that's a construct. Einstein even said this space doesn't exist, believe it or not, it's a construct. And so when we go to sleep, we deconstruct and so you can drop so far down the rabbit hole that you drop into dimensions that are no longer restricted by space and time. And therefore you can have these dreams of premonition, they are not at all uncommon. There's tons of literature on this. So there's so much to say here, I might recommend the I mean, William James riff on this a lot. He wrestled with this notion of precognition and freewill. A wonderful book by my dear friend Jonathan Bricklin, called the illusion of real space and time, William James is reluctant guide to enlightenment. This is a brilliant book, academic book, but worth the effort where he talks about these sorts of things. The other one that just came out that I'm reading now I just got it in the mail. Bob Rosenberg, I think his first name was Bob Rosenberg, in this marvelous Anthology, which is really brilliant, called consciousness unbound. It's an extensive book, about 600 pages of anthology of some of the brightest minds on a planet talking about an idealistic description of reality. So to really understand this, you have to explore idealism, you have to understand understand the nature of reality is being of the nature of mind that matter. And therefore all this stuff starts to make a lot more sense. And so that's a book I might recommend, if you want to explore Rosenberg writes about pre cognition, as does James, in a really interesting way. And when you actually sit down and pause to really reflect on this, you know, people talk about pre cognitive dreams, pre cognition, and people go Oh, yeah, well, that's interesting. If you really sit down and reflect deeply on this thing called pre cognition, it's like WTF what is going on here? What How can someone actually have an experience of the alleged future? So working with this stuff, I recommend you backup this tree as well. This will lead to real insights into the nature of mind and reality. But the fact that you have this in a dream, not in any way to dismiss what you're experiencing, this is not at all uncommon in the literature you'll read about it all over the place. And the fact that sometimes you can have when you talk about his hyper lucid dreams also, eventually, you want to get to the point where you're comfortable with hyper lucidity being as real as this. And so you don't have to tend to freak out when your dreams seem more real than this. Because in the mind of a meditation Master, there's zero difference. None zero difference between what you experienced in the daytime, what you experienced and dream, what you experience in deep dreamless sleep. And so it's good for you cool stuff with you know, if you want to get some theoretical so called trial infrastructure behind it. I think some of the sources I recommended you'll find super interesting. Okay, so now we can say goodbye. So what we do is silly, geeky. We turn all our cameras on. And you also turn your microphones on. And then this ridiculous cacophony of you know Group hug and love fest, we just say bye to each other until next time.

Thank you, Andrew. Thank you, Andrew. Thank you. Thank you, Andrew. Thank you. Bye bye. Thank you. Bye bye. Thank you.