So I'm going to launch in to these questions. Not necessarily an order of kind of importance or priority. I'll ping through these and then have a conversation with whatever you guys want to talk about. Really. I am here to serve and protect. Is that what it says on the police car slogans? Right, right. Boulder County police to serve and protect that's me. Okay, so some David if humans managed to succeed it turning this planet into an uninhabitable wasteland, doing a really good job at it. Actually, there's a book very disturbing book called The uninhabitable Earth. If you have the stomach for it, read it. You know, I don't know. I'm preaching to the choir here. We're doing a really good job. We've entered the sixth mass extinction. And I have to say I used to be more optimistic than I am. I don't think we have the collective intelligence. Anyway, I won't go there. If we managed to succeed us into an uninhabited wasteland. Yeah, we're going to be scraped off like excised like a cancer or a sore and then the planet will heal then it'll start this whole thing again, right? What would this mean for the cycle of rebirth if this realm was no longer available for incarnate beings? Ah, David, this is very revelatory. I'm going to Jabba you a little bit here. This is uh, this is kind of indicative of the view that we all tend have and I had this for years. This kind of pre Copernican view, you know, that this this this is the only we're the center of the universe. This is the only the dimension you know, it's all this kind of anthropocentric view, the human realm. This is this earth planet. First of all, just think of the numbers here for just a second, David. Just think of the numbers okay. There are at least at least minimum, minimum 2 trillion galaxies, each of which has 100 to 200 billion stars, each of which has anywhere from one to two to like nine planets, the conjecture, do the math on that it's just incalculable. How many planets are out there and yes, we're in the Goldilocks zone. We have all these right causes and conditions. But do you think we're the only planet even in this universe? No way. So this doesn't mean anything if we get scraped off just because this cancer story gets removed. It doesn't mean anything for the cycle of rebirth. I shouldn't say anything. It doesn't mean much, because this is just one of different types of human realms of the six realms of samsara, which is a basic classification of 27 realms of samsara. There are a ton of other places you can go so it's just means this particular
little sweet Earth may not be the most hospitable place to support life, so it doesn't really affect much you really want David. Again, you have to kind of buy this I have zero proof for this. I have no way to substantiate this. But this is what the kind of the cosmology of the wisdom traditions and start. So don't worry, there'll be a place for you. There'll be vacancy in some realm. That doesn't mean we shouldn't fight like hell to keep this planet alive. For sure. Absolutely. Right. We have to do that. But you know, human realm is okay, but it's not great. guardrails are a little bit better, but not a ton, because sooner or later those you'll exhaust that. Go to a pure land. Don't don't come back. I have to be careful when I say that. Okay, let me put a disclaimer. Yes, you can come back as a bodhisattva. For sure. Absolutely. Totally. I'm not dismissing that. But the best thing you can do is go to a pure land. That's why I'm doing all these parallel programs right now. Because from there, if you want, you can emanate, you could come here voluntarily. You can do all kinds of things. Get outside of samsara. Don't come back. To samsara. Go into a trance. I'm sorry, dimension Lexicology. Okay. Okay, Pardon, pardon, a little humor here. Another question from David. I don't know if it's the same David or not.
Hold on a second here. Hold on. Yeah. Looks like a different David. Practical Tips to Improve lucid dreams. Okay, David, number two. I have to say if I had a nickel for every time I was asked this question, and I'm not dismissing it is a great question, David. I could retire. I'm partly retired. So I'm good. I have written so much about this. If you're a nightclub member I have. I don't know how many webinars on this. My book. The lucid dreaming workbook has a ton of stuff on this and because there's so much already out there, David, I'm not going to repeat it all. I'm gonna direct you to the sources. I will say a couple of things. Meditate, meditate, meditate. meditators have more lucid dreams number one, believe in this stuff more study it more believe that it's true. Have the conviction. Number three have a powerful intentionality. It's incredibly important that you can do this that you will do it. And then really number four is never give up. Just keep on doing it because you're trying to turn the tide against this massive tsunami of now lucidity. It's not easy. Lucid dreaming is not easy. And so that's why I get this question. I don't know. I've probably been asked this 500 times. That's a good question. I'm not dissing it. But these are the ways that you do it. You never give up. Meditate, meditate, meditate. Engage in the induction techniques, increase your intentionality increase all the stuff I've talked about and dozens of other locations. And eventually you will push the door open to lucidity. Okay, my friend. It's only because I've talked about this so many other places. I hope that's okay. Okay, here's one from Matt. Really nice long. Some of these longer ones. I'm going to kind of get to that point because they're, they're somewhat long and they're great. For me, but they're not necessarily important for you. Here's one from Matt about a very powerful synchronicity he had I want to get your opinion on powerful synchronicities is the one and he's really cool. He sends me these two links, he actually videotape this one. So thanks for doing that. That's awesome. Synchronicities are very interesting. They completely fascinated Carl Jung he wrote a lot about this topic. I have several books in my library on this topic. In the Tibetan tradition, it's referred to as using the concept of tendril T and the real auspicious coincidence and basically Synchronicities are we all know what they're like there are these amazing confluences of events, right? We've all had these experiences. And there's a fair amount to say here, Matt, but one of the ways I relate to these is that synchronicities This is my languaging our kind of messages from the cosmos, that that are indicative of the universe, the universe is on your side. Same as coincidence, same thing, coincidence, synchronicities, coincidences, synchronicities universe is on your side. Accidents when coincidence is replaced by accidents, and a synchrony is synchronicities by this synchronous events. That's the universe not on your side. That's when you have small or large stumbles and trips and whatnot. And so I pay attention to the synchronicities they're always nice little indicators of what sometimes talking about a symbolic guru where your world becomes your teacher and they're also really ineffably indicative of the just the the idealistic or mental nature of reality. So I'm big into these these days using this nomenclature. idealism is basically a Western philosophical way to talk about non duality. And so I've been studying non duality for decades. I'm overtly studying idealism from a philosophical perspective, just because there's some cool thinkers these days riffing on it. And so when you really explore non duality, idealism and the like, and you realize the world is made of matter, it's not made of mind then if the other way around the world is made as mine there's an interesting for you slip the world is made of mind it's not made of matter. When you realize the world was made up mind these types of relationships have inner and outer become
actually more available to you. You start to have more and more of these synchronicities and if you're actually aware of it, it's a fire Milarepa once said, phenomena are all the books one needs, let your world be your teacher. And so they're super common for people who start to open their minds. They can be actually cultivated, there are practices. There's a particular set of practices, called windhorse practices that are actually designed to cultivate auspicious content so practices can actually nurture this directly. A lot of other practices that basically open your mind and heart allow these synchronicities to kind of appear with a little bit more frequency and impact. And so the I really pay attention to these things, they're really cool. And so like the story you share, Matt is awesomely cool. So look at the work of Carl Jung, look up the word tendril a te N D Ral auspicious coincidence. Trumper RBJ talked about it. I think the last chapter he was marvelous book called glimpses of ABI dharma. He writes about this sort of thing as well. It's not at all uncommon in the so called spiritual business. And I have had countless of these sorts of experiences, as I'm sure everybody here has listened to. And so, by the way, any of these questions if somebody wants to come on and say a little bit more about them, that's great, but that's what comes to mind. Okay. All right here okay. So here's one from Tim, some nice comments. Thank you for those comments. Okay, so here's a question about reading these books of yours. Thank you. Thank you. You mentioned a great experience I had with TM Yes, transcendental meditation. It was my first form of meditation. It was a big deal experience. Right about it, I think in power and pain. First time in my life, where I was just beginner's luck, right, our first meditation session instruction, I entered this kind of beginner's luck Samadhi some early stage absorption stage, stay for sure. And it was a big deal for me. I loved it. I mean, TM was great. I still have a lot of respect for it was such a great successful meditation. Why did you not just stay with it? That's a good question. That's my main spiritual practice. Well, it's because Tina really didn't have much of a path back then. And they still I can't speak with a lot of authority here. I'm not that up on it. But I left TM for a couple of reasons. There was there was no path quality. They gave me it was great. I'm not dissing it. Wonderful mantra practice, fantastic. But then it was like okay, like now what right and so, that's one reason and plus mantra meditation in and of itself, as powerful as it is. It's just one meditation of dozens, right? And so, Mantra practice, generally, especially the way TM does it is concentrative. It's a it's a referential shamatha and as such is marvelously impactful, super important, but it's it's limited. It only has a certain bandwidth. And so when I started reading about the Buddhist Tibetan thing, oh my gosh, they transcended but included a yes, they have definitely TM related practices, like mantra for sure. It's actually archery out was called mantra Yama. It's that big. But then as you know, Tim, they've got dozens if not hundreds of other meditation practice. It's just the scope is so much bigger in my opinion. My experience in the teaching is so much more profound for me for me. Yeah, so what made me switch to Tibetan Buddhism? I don't know it just happened to be in the neighborhood, right. I had a deep connection to the etymology, but as the awakened one I loved, and continue to love the intellectual rigor. It's really kind of intelligent in a certain way in a real way. The I mean, reading the guardian or read read dig dig Naga Garrick, dharma Keerti yoga Chara. These are some of the most profound thinkers in the history of the human condition. So it's an incredibly sophisticated intellectual tradition, as you know, has a vast array of meditations that's the number one reason and it has a lot of verification in terms of lineage, tradition, authenticity, in terms of this thing's been around for like, what, several 1000 years now. So for all those reasons to him, it just speaks to me but as you know, if you know the way I work, I roll with anything. I'm a deep student of Kashmir, Shaivism Advaita Vedanta, I love science. I love psychology. I don't care where the truth comes from in. I'm a Tibetan Buddhist, actually, I'm an American, studying Tibetan Buddhist. I'm not a Tibetan Buddhist.
And so those are some of the reasons also as I get older, and concepts, this is Tim continuing of impermanence and emptiness, snakes and things to not have the importance and value they used to high five my friend that's the whole point, because I know things out there. Mind. We say that again. There are no things out there. That's what emptiness means no thingness its mind so good for you. Something's sinking in. Have you noticed this? Absolutely. Have you? Have you noticed this happening also and with that in mind, how do you find meaning in your life? Oh my gosh, everything is meaning. So you mentioned the soul Viktor Frankl thing which is beautiful Man's Search for Meaning. This really powerful book that he wrote. I think after coming out of concentration camp, that's what kept him alive. So let me riff a little bit. You say, Here's Viktor, Frankl disgusts. Having meaning in life is very essential, especially when you're in a concentration camp. With the idea that nothing lasts because there's nothing is and everything is basically empty. Yes, it's empty. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It means it exists in a way that is not in harmony with the way it appears to exist. Otherwise, you fall into nihilism. And that's where your question seems to suggest. This kind of nihilistic tinge, they would say that there's no meaning no, no, no, not at all. Emptiness means fullness. If you really understand this, it means the world is full of meaning. And again, that's a multi valence term, what kind of meaning are you talking about? personal meaning, societal meaning, spiritual meaning, what kind of meaning are you referring to? If you really understand emptiness, fullness, the world is just soaked with meaning. How do we get that important sense of meaning it by understanding it properly and experiencing the world then just becomes saturated with meaning? It's not nihilism. I mean, that's a really common trap with the whole void empty shunyata thing. Emptiness means fullness. Empty of self means full of other. We have that understanding the world is soaked in meaning. Okay, and another long one, but these are good. I'm not criticizing them. They're great. I'm an agnostic, curious, cool, same ol same as me. I don't feel able to devote myself to one specific doctrine or tradition, because I think we're practicing it. That's great. Different strokes for different folks. Literally like to question from Tim. I call myself a Buddhist slash curious. But I you know, I am not, I'm not going to fight tooth and nail over this is just one of many wisdom traditions. There is some power and commitment. So there's near enemies both ends here. Yes. There's something to be said. For not being locked into one tradition, having tributaries of knowledge coming in from all these different sources super important because that's the near enemy of exclusive identification with anyone tradition, which to me, that becomes somewhat problematic. The Dalai Lama again is totally up. To this stuff. He's, you know, he says, do not convert to Buddhism, if you're a Christian, use Buddhism to augment your Christianity. So there's, there's shadow sides and bright sides to both approaches here. There's something to be said about committing. Because if you kind of plug into a certain power source, then you get that kind of juice is a little bit like getting married instead of just the dating game all your life, there's power to that. So somewhere in the middle is to me what works for me I find it very helpful to make a commitment. I reap the benefits of that, but I'm also completely open to truth and even though I'm associated with a ton of different communities, I don't belong to one I don't pay dues to one community anymore. This doesn't it's not criticism. It's just that I want to be a little bit more open. So I've a little bit with you on that. I can't create enough devotion for doing aspiration monitors the generation stage for utilizations as you can recommend that's fine. It's like I always say you know but doesn't speak to you don't do it. No problem. Dalai Lama against us the same thing if you find what I say useful, take it to heart. If not throw it out the window. That's great. And again, you know, like the the Hindu approaches to this right back to yoga, jnana yoga, Raja Yoga, kriya, yoga, all these different ways because we're different people. That's all fine. As a non Buddhist, I don't feel the heart connection to which it would be essential for success. That's fine, then don't do it. That's fine. Somebody wants said I shared this physical story.
This is this is a in a setting with me. Talking Rinpoche who is a big, big group of people and this guy was having this really kind of poignant exchange with Rinpoche saying, I can't do this. That doesn't work for me. I think I'm maybe in the wrong place. The whole thing it was really beautiful Rinpoche last listened to a tremendous kindness and patience. And at the end, he basically said, the Buddha just wants you to be happy. He doesn't care if you become a Buddhist. He just want you Buddha wasn't a Buddhist, remember that. He just wants you to be happy. And so whether you define happiness in conventional terms or more overt kind of happiness, the ultimate happiness is enlightenment. That's really what we're after conventional happiness as a substitute for that. So if you're a non Buddhist, who cares? Do what feels right for you. Okay, why can't i Why can't I devote my practice directly to the ultimate guru in my heart? Absolutely. If you can do that, that's the ultimate guru to my Amitabha. Absolutely the best. Zen maybe cuz Zen offers such an open approach that's up to you. You have to check that out. I'm not going to criticize that. It's a beautiful tradition. It doesn't speak to me as much as the Tibetans but that's just me. You know, I like hamburgers more than cheeseburgers. Actually. I don't eat meat, but you get the idea. Try it out. That's the great thing about these non dual traditions Maha Mudra, adsorption, Advaita, Vedanta, Kashmir CyberZone. They're more more directly point to the ultimate guru within you for sure. And so even even the Buddhist tradition, Buddhist tradition is totally aware of it that that's why they talk about the four types of Guru. The physical teacher that we know is a guru, symbolic guru. Like I talked about earlier, the world becomes your teacher, the text, the teachings as a type of group, all of which all three of those are provisional. They're all pointers to what you're talking about the ultimate girl within you for sure. You can do that. That that's everything. Okay, close. From my workshop was always scary when people quote me. I always get nervous when people say, Well, you said this and I was like, oh, yeah, I guess I did. Real devotion is an unbroken receptivity to the truth. Yes, I did say that. And that's true. You're devoting yourself to what's real, real news. Not fake news. Yes, I did say that. The audit puroland ultimate guru Amitabh is in your heart. Absolutely. 100%. And actually, when I talked to Eben Alexander, if you guys have not club members, and this is I think we might have released just released this for edge of mine. More public podcast. I talked about this with Evan when he had this near death experience Proof of Heaven thing where we talk a little bit about outer inner heaven that real heaven is right here right now. It's in your heart. Devotion is my key for lucid dreams. That's awesome. That's what a what I call a magic induction technique for sure. And your last q&a Somebody suggested for more frequent lucid dreams inside the dream Yes, I did. I remember that. Therefore a date or dare to try it out and shouted please let me experience a lucid dream each night for the benefit of all beings. Beautiful. But as the circumstances of the dream scene didn't feel I deal for success. It didn't work. That's fine. Doesn't always work. Just keep going try it again. I think I had to trust you. 100% by dreamer behind the dream will grant me my request. Yeah, I think that could be part of it. But some of it is also these things always don't work. Get the first crack. Right. So maybe what you're saying I think that's part of the strand of maybe why it didn't work. But the other is the firewall of non lucidity. I mean, that's the biggest reason the firewall of all our bad habits all our non lucid practice all the things that keep us away from it. That's the main thing. What you're talking about is just one part of it. Only then could my self hypnosis work Yes, that's true helps. Me not have any doubts about it. Yeah, doubt. Doubt literally means of two minds. That doesn't help.
That's why dodge shamballa teachings talk a ton about doubt. And this is really a deeper topic where on one level, there is a kind of healthy skepticism, the the the empirical approach that's that's actually quite healthy. But have you noticed these days how it's almost fashionable to be skeptical how it's fashionable to have doubt that somehow it conveys a sense of intelligence? A Yeah, I'm not so sure about that. That's where this kind of skeptical land can really flip into a really powerful and near enemy, because on one level, as he talked about even earlier, you know, if you have complete devotion, I mean that in the tantric traditions, devotion is everything. I mean, everything. So devotion alone can lead to the whole shebang like you're talking about so yeah, we read some a trunk which a trunk about refugees work on doubt. He's written a ton on this. Really, really, really good stuff. Did I try it? You know, I haven't. I did not try that technique after I think it was Kip that mentioned it. I haven't tried it yet. Okay, I think there's one more and then I'll open it up to people who are attending. Okay, yeah, familia. Actually, two more. was a long one. Let me see if I can summarize this. I'm a beginner. someone new to Dream Yoga, but have some success. Good for you, Leah. By the time practice on the flip side has recently become more involved in magical. That's fantastic. Because I mean, it's why I wrote my book dreams of life that when you do these nocturnal meditations, you don't just keep on under the cover and the blanket of darkness. The whole idea is bi directional. They infiltrate and they help you become lucid during the day, so good for you. After processing, reflecting on some of the philosophies you walk us through in your books all of a sudden like last 40 hours I feel waking reality the primary illusion so differently. That's fantastic. Probably a little bit less real, less material less dualistic, more like a dream right good for you. You don't you know these kinds of breakthrough glimpses things. They're really not that difficult because what you're talking about, that's the natural space. That's really the natural way to see things. They may not be all the way to the deepest end yet. They may not be fully stabilized yet. That's true. But the ability to see the world in this way that's like a dream. That's because the reality is really like to dream. Okay, so instead of just listening to the concepts and thinking, Oh, that's an interesting point of view, the concepts are beginning to click for me. Yeah, that's the whole idea, hearing, contemplating meditating, hearing the concepts contemplating starting to click meditating. They really click right. So you're just sharing what's absolutely classic, and it's beautiful to hear. Thank you. It's an extreme sensation, even physically, mentally, nearly too much or overwhelming. As you mentioned, we might start to feel a little insane that you want because the ground is shifting, that's all. So it's best to reflect on these teachings and take our time. Yes. If the mental stretching feels uncomfortable, you're on the right path and so forth. Yep. That's my question. I like to ask if you hit if you have any meditative tips for these breakthrough extreme moments of clarity and growth and how to sit with processes and get the most out of them. That's a really good question. I'm going to be talking quite a bit about this with my friend Chris beige, and part two of our interview this coming Wednesday, this Wednesday. I'm bringing him back. We're going to talk a lot about this issue. of integration. This is the $64,000 question. When you have specifically when you have these breakthrough moments. They're not extreme by the way, what's extreme is all the adventitious defilements that make that natural experience appear extreme. It's not extreme. It's natural. We're the extremists. We're the ones that are so far off that when we have a natural experience, a natural experience feels extreme. It's not it's natural. This is the extreme state. So that's important. The breakthrough Yes, breakthrough is often accompanied by the way with breakdown, breakthrough experiences. How do you work with them? Well, you know, first and foremost is appreciate them for what they are.
But don't indulge them. Don't repress them. Don't turn them into a golden chain, let them come let them go. Otherwise they turn into really insidious types of traps. You can use them for aspirational purposes to reinstate those qualities. But if you start grasping after them, then yes, while you're still grasping them as long as grasping is involved, I don't care. We're after what delicious meditative state of these states of mind if you're still grasping that's samsara. So the way you let your the way you work with these, you have to work with metabolic process. That's an experience. Experience, by definition is not stable. We all go through this stage, in order for experience to mature into realization, which is stable. That's the path. That's the digestion and metabolism part. You just have to be patient. You have to take your time. They went Chris Bailey, she was talking about his experience, you know, he stopped his 20 year journey, because he he couldn't take it anymore. It was too it was starting to get too much and now, the rest of the rest of his life, he says until he dies is just about digesting everything that he experienced. So you have these breakthroughs. They're great. They're super cool. Don't think too much about them. Otherwise they become real traps. Let them come let them go. And then never give up. You just keep going. He starts to digest and metabolize eventually becomes more and more part of your system. And then you start to live from from that space. That becomes your default. So I write about this in power and pain quite a bit in that book. And the sections on experience versus realisation. Okay, a little bit more. I know that discomfort is natural and unavoidable. Yes, it's only this uncomfortable from an egoic point of view because it's so open. Again, these things can appear this uncomfortable and extreme because we're so bloody contracted. So their discomfort is like putting a crowbar in and you opening your mind and heart into it first is like it's too much right? Too much like too much wisdom too much truth. It's like the Dave Matthews song that's why you play it so much too much. I love my favorite Dave Matthews song too much and so the discomfort is just the yoga it's the stretch. It's like it's just like you're taking a spiritual cognitive Asana mudra posture, that at first is just it's a big stretch. It's not comfortable for your contracted ego. So if you understand that you will hang with the discomfort you realize stretching is good. For growth and you just you know, be patient with it. Breathe. Take your time for you. Any thoughts on keeping stable during these luminous learning moments? Yeah, don't take it too seriously. And while reality as ego knows, it is crumbling apart. Yeah. Again, everything I said also strengthening your view. That's super important to asking questions like this through understanding more about these breakthrough moments read or which book is there's a really wonderful riff on this. In one of major MPJ is books and he's I can't remember which one turning confusion into clarity. I just don't remember. He used to have tremendous panic attacks. And he used to have also other experiences somewhat similar like this when when things were like coming apart. And so he talks he was a meditation master talking about how he had to work with these types of things. So this is totally par for the course read Chris Pages book LSD in the mind of the universe. He talks beautifully about this. Okay, I think that's kind of it. For Alia. There's some other things but there was a little bit more sidebar stuff. There was one more question that came in recently. Let me get that and then we'll open it up. So give me one second. Okay, here I've been trying to condition myself decondition don't condition decondition. But I get what you're saying. When trying to condition myself to recognize recurring dream size and something to help me wake up during a dream fantastic. The other night I had a dream with both sides and yet I failed to recognize it and achieve lucidity any suggestions? This is really great. Pure. It's actually hysterical. I'm laughing with you. Let me share a story. I'll say something very specific. Don't worry. I'll get to your question but let me share a story with you. In fact, Joseph parent, you know the the PhD guy who comes in on Mondays and does our meditation stuff, my dear friend. He shares the story is hysterical. Right. So
he had this he had this dream and his teacher. I think it was compartment a he had another teacher in the larger region. So one of those two actually appears in the dream and says to him in the dream. You're dreaming, right? Like, how much more of a sledge hammer do you need on your head? His teacher appears on the dream. Right and says Joseph, you're dreaming and even with that he didn't attain lucidity right? So cut yourself some slack here. So the way you work with this, this is not at all uncommon, is first of all good for you for doing it. Just keep at it. recurring dreams are very powerful. Just keep at it. Write down the recurrent themes, highlight them in your journal. I have a recurrent dream about x. Like for me it used to be my beach house, where I grew up in Michigan, myself a lot of Recurrent Dreams. I wrote them down for a while. I highlighted them I knew at the principal reiterative recurrent themes were and those then became dream signs. So just like you're saying the more I did this, it got to the point where every time I had that dream was like, oh geez, I'm at the beach. This is a dream of lucid. But again, because of the mass of influences the forces of the dark side and only city. You can have your teacher come into your dream like Joseph did and say hey, Joseph. You're dreaming and you still don't get it. So relax. Have a sense of humor. Smile at the whole bloody thing. And you just keep going and have fun with it. Okay, my friend so. So something like that makes me chuckle because I've had dreams like that as well not quite as direct as my friend Joseph parent but quite similar. So it's actually quite quite funny on one level. So anyway, I see my up there I see bland if you guys want to ask him questions. In the meantime, I'll go to the chat column but fire away questions again. Appreciate it. Hello, hello.
The whole question is is your first answer is a little bit of a it took me a few times but anyway, because at the first you go into the pure lens and make it like so differently, like go here like this is the method and I know better to know that this is it fits a certain person's and other not others but I wonder how disjunctive sometimes it is because we feel like we get it but I am lists all that to say I'm listening to extraordinary nine or nine is a great book and I am seeing it as maybe people did not hear you before offering that it would be a good line is to literally air it in terms of the information that it gives the most detail as to the evolution within this psychology of trying to prove the remote knowing and other other ways of knowing. But what brings me to this is is the way that she goes into something that you have explained also before it doesn't have to be this or that is like it could be a fluid situation like in between in terms of the knowing and that to get the How to know that you are having that experience you have to come to a level of relaxation or a level of in between. That is what you acquired and the only way to acquire that is to practice doesn't matter how many times you tell us he said knowing sensation that is a somatic sensation and then you will have no doubt and knees when we be gained with the patterns of us trying to put it in a little box that then things get out of out of whack and we get out of the experience. But I recommend that because I think if that Fluke situation of knowing in the dream we have a we it could be that we are not lucid, but there's something about the dream that stays in our body or we don't remember that we would lose it or anything that you say today is the way that we feel it in between I that sensation I think it's like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow kind of
go through it. We go through it all the time because we want to get somewhere. We want to get the formula we want to get to the Pure Land. We want to see the mountain we want to have the experience and that goal by itself. I guess it gets us out of the way. Is that true?
Yeah. I just want to give you a big hug. I mean you know you're everything. You're saying is just so spot on. Really wonderful contributions really great stuff. First of all, the book, extraordinary knowing I found it quite an extraordinary book. I really enjoyed it when it first came out. If you haven't read it, it's a relatively straightforward read and really super insightful. Basically, everything that you said if I understood you broke up a little bit at the very end Myra but if what you said said yes, on one level and stop me if this is not what you said. Yes, on one level we want to get there, wherever that is that that's path right on a relative level. That aspiration is quite okay. That's the aspiration to get out of samsara and into nirvana. And so this is precisely why the programs, mela and DMC I'm so excited about because in both those programs, we we actually work with the issue of anova which is the path of no path. So if I'm hearing you right, that at one level, yes, even trying to get to the puroland trying even trying to attain enlightenment actually backfires at the highest level on a relative level for sure. That's why we have a path. But if you really understand the deeper implications, which I think is what you're saying, and I've been intimating this we already are in heaven, we already are in a pure land. We just don't believe it. And so therefore, the at the highest levels precisely what to explore these programs coming up, you annihilate or transcend the notion of path altogether. And really remove the cataracts of confusion that allow you to see the immediacy that there is nothing but the clear light mind right now. You're in Nirvana right now. You don't have to die. You don't have to do anything you just have to recognize that's ultimate lucidity. And so what we do just parenthetically, with lucid dreams, I grew up on lucid dreams. Yes, they're interesting. They're cool. But to me, they're they're iterative and indicative of the deeper lucidity issue. So lucid dreams are just a pointer to this ultimate lucidity. That's the key for me. That's the reason I work with this stuff. Is it works with ultimate lucidity, which is wake up. You're in the puroland right now. You're in Nirvana right now. Don't even think about the path because the path itself on one level backfires and keeps you from it. So I'm gonna pause because that's what I heard you saying but I want to make sure when you broke up that I didn't miss something. Is that what your
dad has? Said? And I guess what I'm trying to say is the like, it's like da Amin is can you see it? Like I mean, it's between the breath is between the thoughts is between your words is between your teachings. And it's not like we don't have to find in CAG the discipline and the practice because we have to clear up but it could be I mean, there may be people do not need it. I know I need it. I still have a lot of baggage to get rid of. But um but when I see that and I we are so tough. In ourselves. So we are so tough. Am I doing it right? Am I doing it enough on my you know, we're just hitting ourselves when we just have to relax like you said, but
that's all you have to do is just open a contraction and relax and I'm gonna say one thing to just refine what you're suggesting my room because on one level what you're saying that it has provisional truth and this is interesting, this is difference between the like the Hindu languaging here Buddhism doesn't have quite the same languaging when you say it's, it's me, it's in the gap between thoughts. It's in the space Yes. Partially, because if you if we all if we think somehow that it only abides in that space, that's the whole Turia thing. Somehow you have to go to that. partly true, provisionally true, but what I'm saying is, you don't even have to wait for the gap. You can see in the thought you can see it, it doesn't have to be in that space because there's nothing but that so what you're saying is true. I'm on level. Initially, it helps to lessen the display to recapture the essence. That's what the gap allows. But then if you just hang out there then then what do you do with thoughts, then then it's lost? No, it's not. It's just not recognized. So what you're saying is true, but partially true. Eventually, you want to get to the point where it doesn't matter what you're doing. It doesn't matter. Our thoughts are arising. It doesn't matter what's manifesting even that is the radius of the clear, light mind. So there's that final refinement, right?
Yeah, but what I'm saying is that when you when you think about the gap, I was not thinking like you're going to stay there like Oblivion, but more to see the the interconnectedness and interdependence in the fact the effervescent sense of the way that clarity manifest
that thing, I just totally agree with you. Yeah. Thank you so much. I always appreciate when you have to mute yourself.
Okay. Can you hear me now?
I can faraway.
See. So I have a I have a question that stems from a mid year online retreat. A year ago, which was basically the first pointing out of the of the five and
which, which one was that gland, which it was
all phenomenon come from the mind. The pointing out of that?
Oh, yeah, yeah, the pointing okay. Yeah, this is
in passive liberation one. And so that was done online. And he just gave path of liberation to face to face which he wanted to do. And that was a, it's been all over the country. So I was at that, but I have a question about a year ago, after he gave the pointing outs over a series of two days. He then ended with this very strange comment, and I'm wondering whether you can you can shed some light on it. So so he said, I want to talk about and it depends on whether I've got the notes right. I want to talk about energy movements and emanations, he said there are four and two you should not you should let go of and to you should pay attention to to stop us to go on to have what oh, I'll tell you what, okay, so the first one he said body sensations you should pay attention to emotions up and down. You should pay attention to five sense perceptions. Let it go. sense perceptions of energy visual or otherwise, let them go. And this is within the context of of that first pointing out.
Yeah, this is tricky for me to run commentary on Glenn because I wasn't there. I mean, I can conjecture. Sure. I love that. I'm a little I'm slightly hesitant to do that because I might be retrofitting my complete misunderstanding of where he was going with this. I mean, you know, this guy's amazing and I'm sure whatever he said, was just absolutely spot on. So I, I, I mean, I can make some guesses, but I'm a little reluctant to do that. Because again, without a fuller sense of the context and understanding I might be selling something that is just completely wrong. So with your permission, those are the kinds of questions I'm always a little reluctant to run right because I just don't have enough information. Okay. I'm sorry, go ahead.
Oh, I appreciate that. And they've been superseded by what's happened this year. So, but I assumed there was just a focus on really somatic.
Yeah, that's exactly that's what I pick up out of it is that this whole lovely notion, Sanyo Vaughn, who came up with this term decades ago, which that was common, I love it. This notion of waking down. Sarah ha right wisdom abides of the body, this whole notion of really waking down to that but but what doesn't jive then with that is why then would be the slight criticism of or letting go of sensory perceptions because they're actually part of the physical apparatus. So there maybe perhaps he was intimating the the, all the baggage that comes with sensory inputs. Again, I'm just purely guessing on that. But I think the most important thing, just from what you've heard you say, is just trusting the wisdom of the body, waking down, staying with that. That's one reason that when so choose language, right. It's kind of really the basis of lie detectors. And so again, it really the one final thing and then I'll let it go unless you have no follow up is when we walk this journey this journey, this journey. We're walking a journey that's connected to the issue of the ultimate guru within your walking a labyrinth, into the center of yourself that's the journey that and that's why the Buddha used the Buddhist tradition uses the word Kaya body to refer to refer to this journey to integrate nirmanakaya symbol good chi Dharmakaya. And I think that's perhaps what he's saying is the real, the real treasures are actually down with and right here right now. And they are completely fully embodied. In fact, you might discover that when you become absolutely totally fully embodied, not only do you become fully human, but you become a Buddha to become before you become a Buddha, you have to become fully human, then you may discover that being fully human is the Buddha. And then how do you do that by staying in body staying in the coyotes that's why that term is actually used. So anyway, I'm gonna pause there because I'm just guessing otherwise, but that's what has come to mind from what you shared. Well, thank you. That
was very helpful.
Yeah, nice to see you. Welcome. fantastica is a Francesca or Francesca.
Francesca,
Francesca. I love that name.
Yes. Sorry. It's very late. So here it's it's night so sorry. For the lights.
Why are you in Italy? This sounds like an Italian name.
I mean, nice in the south of France.
Oh, wow. Just even better. Anyway, nice to see you.
Thank you. Nice to see you. Thank you for everything you do. And my question is, I wanted to share a dream experience I had recently and I wanted to get your opinion and like a bit of like, what you think that was? So um, it was a few weeks ago. It was shortly after the Pure Land retreat, the online thing. So it wasn't a dream. I was my dream sign was frustration I was doing by those repetitive tasks that you can never get to accomplish and dreams you know, one of those things that keep so I realized them in a dream. I was not completely lucid. I was like on a scale from one to 10. I was like the seven and so my idea was okay, I'm gonna go I wanted to go visits a cavity, because I remember that was you know, something that was talked about so I'm from FERS appear and I start going towards them, but you know, they fall apart and whatever. At the end of it. I'm like, okay, new plan. I will. I will try and go beyond the dream, which it's weird to explain, but I had this this idea of, you know, going beyond the appearance, the visual of the dream, you know, and just like thinking below and seeing what happened there. I had done it once before and so I started literally
Oh, come back. No, she just left for a cavity. Come back. Jessica, you've disappeared into the pure lands. We're here for you when you come back.
Yeah, I think it might have kicked her out.
You might want to sign back off and come back on we'll make room for you. Okay, perfect, because I do have some thoughts about your experience so far. But anyway, we'll pause until you come back. Okay.
We can get Mariana muted in the air and
how are you? Well, I like looking at your artwork. Hold on a second. I like your stuff.
Thank you. Thanks. Andrew. Hi, everybody. Nice to see you all today. Um, is this is this a good time and venue just to share a lucid dream? Sure.
I think it could be inspiring for people Francesco starting to do it anyway. So yeah, far away. Yeah. Well,
Greg, this was a few months ago. I had just finished reading your book on Dream Yoga. And I had been trying to lucid dream for about two months and I finally had one. And the first the first lucid dream was just pure fun. I mean, it was just pure play, you know, going through ceilings and floors and different lands and things like that. And then, about two weeks later, I had my second lucid dream. And it started out in a non lucid dream and I said, I'm pretty sure I'm not dreaming. But I'm going to try to stick my hand through this wall just in case. Oh, cool. And my hand went through the wall. It was like, Oh my God. I lucid dreaming. I got so excited. Okay, what did Andrew tell me to do? And I immediately just kind of started going through the instructions in your book and I thought, I remember Andrew said it was good to try to die. Okay, and so I turned around and there's a door and open this big red door. And there's just like, the vastness you know, and I looked down and there's like this straight drop off that goes 1000s of feet. Oh, very cool. Yeah. And I thought, well, this would be a good way to try to die and so and I leave you know, and I and I start falling and falling and falling, but there's no ground,
right, right.
So I'm like, huh, and then I see this black hole over there. I thought I should go into that black hole. That'd be a good place to die. And so I dive into the black hole. And I and it just turned to do a tunnel. And I'm going down and then it turns horizontal. And then I before I know it, I'm flying. And so I go through the tunnel and I come out the other side and I thought well, I guess I can't die. And and so then I thought well, what else do Andrew said it was good to try to meditate. I'm gonna go find a place to meditate. And so I might have mentioned I live just over the hill from the mountain cloud Zen Center, and I'm a member there. So I kind of thought I would wind up at Mountain cloud. And so but to my surprise, I wind up at the Zendo and Hawaii. Like, oh, that's a surprise. I mean, it's so interesting. How this interplay between what we can control and then the surprises that come up in lucid dreams. And so I'm in this in Hawaii, I see the little place to put your shoes on when I'm not wearing shoes. So I go by and I and I opened the door. And then to my surprise, there's Roshi, Joan Halifax greeting me so warmly and I was surprised to see that she wasn't wearing black. And then I looked down and I was surprised to see that I wasn't wearing black either. And and now that this is the end of the dream, I look over and I see all these women stay. I'm in New Paya, even though it's wise to Paya these women's just standing kind of quietly talking and smiling and everyone had on these beautiful different colored kind of Pell Lenin robes. And they had been in retreat for a long, long time and I just walked into the middle of it but everybody was so welcoming to me. I felt I felt like I really belonged.
That's awesome. First of all, thank you. I love hearing these dreams I hope is somewhat inspirational for others as well. I mean, what an awesome dream. All's I can say is just what an awesome dream. The only thing that does come to mind that may be of interest. A slight commentary is that when you when you saw this kind of abyss in the dream, and then good for you for having the memory of like, okay, I wonder what happens if I die? First of all, you're never going to die in a dream but you know the avatar is just your mind in there, right? And so the avatar may dissolve into formlessness but you're not going to die. Because formless awareness doesn't die. And so the fact that you saw us it's kind of a burst you drove it dove into it. The fact that it's this kind of tunnel, I guessing maybe but maybe not. When you're dreaming consciousness is usually in kind of throat area chakra center. And so sometimes when people have the false sense of falling or a tunnel, you're actually dropping through the central channel, heading towards the heart center, which is where dissolution and death would take place for that avatar. So maybe I can't say, but in short, I mean just high five. That's tough. I love these kinds of stories and I really appreciate you sharing it. Just keep up the good work. So I it's kind of funny again, I have to chuckle because when people start quoting me, or they say Andrew says is like already great. You know, I gotta I gotta get my spiritual attorneys here. You know what I'm saying? But you did the right thing, right? You did some really cool things. You you worked with some really wonderful principals, and then a little bit perhaps connected to Francesca's thing and like she she's that guy we can bring her back on is you can also then make the aspiration to go to psychology. That's the only thing you can do. So that's that's especially with stronger lucidity. It's just amazing and that allowing like you mentioned that the spaciousness is for serendipity for auspicious coincidences and whatnot to rising and to allow yourself to actually be surprised because it's not just all your stuff in there. I used to think more and more earlier because the influence of science, but now I'm more much more open about permeability, transparency, translucency different agencies, different qualities, where you can make yourself more available to things that can quite surprise you. But in short, just the high five really great stuff. Thank you for sharing. Yeah,
thank you, Andrea. And I'll just finish off by saying the next day I felt incredible, so permeable and so loose that my my whole reality I would say felt more different, but I guess really, it just feels more more accurate. Yeah, that's beautiful. And
that's also I often joke, I don't play with the end the whole notion, you know, we wake up wake up on the wrong side of the bed, it can ruin your whole day. These practices show me how to wake up on the right side of the bed. So it if it affects your whole day, and you can have these dreams so powerful. Sometimes they'll affect your whole life. I mean, you'll wake up from one of these things and go oh my god, that was unbelievable. And that type of memories like a near death experience, that type of memory, you never forget that. So that's kind of a pointing out pointing in, in transmission where those are the things you want to nurture as beacons of possibility and also, cautiously tap yourself on the back and say, hey, well, well done. Really cool. And then just keep keep going. Yeah, I
would say it was life changing. Thank you. Yeah,
right right. Those puppies down I with those dreams. I write them I date them, title them, keep them in your dream diary keeping your dream journal because those are the ones you want to make. Keep track of those. Sometimes they can evolve mature, developing their own. I don't write most of my dreams down now because my dream life is so bloody active. I'd be writing all day. But these big dreams. Those are the ones I still chart so you might want to write that one down. Well, I'm
so grateful to have this venue to share. Thanks, Andrew.
No, I love hearing it. It's terrific. Terrific. Okay. Francesca, you're back from the puroland.
Thank you for your thanks. Yes, sorry. Zoom. Nice on me. I don't know where
you left off where you're saying. You saw some stairs. Interesting. The first thing I thought of was Led Zeppelin my favorite rock band right? Stairway to security. And then you use you're saying something about how you wanted to try to get behind my dream and then you disappeared?
Yes. So it happened once before where I kind of like went below the visual appearance of the dream kind of like shed that layer and when below so I started thinking that and I kind of started crouching, as if I was thinking and as I start thinking that the the the dream starts fading away and as it fades away, it fades into darkness and they feel this huge wave of relaxation and complete bliss just washing over me gradually. And when it's over like when the dream is completely fade away. I'm in the darkness and there's some notes some very simple music and some light some rainbow very like some some light from rumble that and I don't know how long I stay there. And it's ridiculous because I think then after a while I'm like okay, this is boring and I wake up but what is interesting is also that that music, I was listening to the podcast with Eben Alexander that you did, yeah. And he was mentioning sacred acoustics and I found a really similar music to the one that I that I was hearing so I was like really impressed by that. So I kind of wanted to get your opinion on on what you think that was. Yeah, totally.
You see, these are awesome. I love hearing these stories. Thanks for sharing. Yeah, I mean a couple of things just come to mind. First of all, I absolutely have to chuckle when you said at the end you kind of got bored and woke up. That's actually quite interesting because that's your ego coming back in that you know, there's no there's no place for personal identity in that space. And so that particular bandwidth of course, which we all have until we're fully awakened, have your egoic common commentarial self kick in and found itself bored and then kick you out of the dream. But the this notion that you were working to get behind or below the dream is really interesting. And so let me ask you a question and then I'll write a little bit more of this. So you're when you're in the stream you had enough obviously lucidity, clarity of mind to kind of set this intention ality and so say a little bit more about or maybe could just be as opaque as the poetry of what you just said. Say a little bit more about what when you said you wanted to get below the images. How did you actually try to do that? Did you literally like try to dive below the images or what did you actually try to do to effect that intention?
Yeah, it was like, I don't know when when you're when you're swimming and you just like exam everything. out and you start thinking to the bottom like you should stand very still. And it happens what happened once before I did the same thing. I I didn't know why or how I think I remembered in the dream I remembered something about one of the Dream Yoga I don't remember. I don't recall exactly. But it happened the same thing. I wasn't darkness. And there were like, I didn't have bodily awareness. I just had these lights here and there and there were there was nothing and so it happened twice. But this one I had the music as well. So
there was no sense of anxiety or fear. There was really a sense of openness and really joy.
Yeah, and the second one, it was very physical and my interpretation of that is like I became aware of my body sleeping. That's what I think. I became aware. Sorry if you hear some noises, it's my dog. That is if He's snoring. So that's I think I became aware of my body completely relaxed. That's my interpretation. I don't know if that's true.
Yeah. Well, yeah, it's always a little bit difficult from a third part, party point of view to say exactly what was going on, but I can tell you kind of like first thought impressions. I mean, first of all, like I mentioned that they also really cool that you have the wherewithal to like get behind the scenes. That's a little bit like the the intention to dig below beneath or through appearances, you know, like what what's really going on here so that in itself is really quite novel. Because, again, this is the maturation of Dream Yoga, into sleep yoga, because when you're working with Dream Yoga, you're still working with contents of mind, which is great, it's fantastic. It's really tantric in that sense. When you start working, to cut through appearance is literally called traction to that cutting through or below or whatever metaphor you want to use. Now you're starting to explore potentially deeper formless dimension to the mind from which these images that arise and the fact that there is this kind of effective quality of of peace, contentment, relaxation, whatever you mentioned, is also highly indicative of this, this profound openness that takes place when you actually drop below appearances. And so that's actually really, really cool thing to continue to explore. One of the things you can do a little bit more overtly, in addition to what you just tried next time is a transition. This is like stage eight, Dream Yoga. But again, anybody can do these, you know, just because I call it stage eight, it doesn't mean it has to be a really advanced age nor anybody can do it. So the next time you have this experience, perhaps in addition to what you did you can have a little bit more overt intentionality somewhat connected to Mary Ann's story to actually kind of like drop below literally just set the intention. I want to experience the formless dimensions of my being, and then you'll actually drop and the fact that there was some sound there that's interesting, I can only conjecture. Remember, Eben Alexander talks about all the sound that he experienced on the music? That could be a symbol GokaiOh manifestation I can't see with with complete assurity so again, it's difficult for me in a certain point, it's not even that important what I say is like, it's your dream, right? Your dream. And so the most important thing, deliberate, like Maryann's is, what it leaves you with, how it has affected you how the impact that it's had and how you can nurture it. That's what's really important. But what you may consider next time is perhaps setting an intentionality that then can be actualized like with Marianne head, okay, what can I do here? Oh, I can actually I can make a more overt attention. I want to experience a luminosity of my being that sleep yoga, what actually dropped below that and then basically keep it open ended like that and just see what happens. And then follow little on Iron arts report next time we see you know, so this stuff is just really cool. I love it. I love hearing these things, because this stuff works. And sometimes really what we all share in the West is this kind of poverty mentality. That Oh, I'm not advanced enough. Who am I to have an experience of the nature of mind? Who am I to experience the clear, light mind or the enlightened state? Well, it's your legacy. It's who you are. And so it's stability. That's a different matter, but accessibility is not and so this is perhaps my comments can best be used as empowerments for you. High fives empowerments that, again, I can't say with total authority, you were starting to access really formless dimensions. The other thing you may want to explore either now retrospectively from the dream experience, or the next time you're in it is is when you have this experience, is there a kind of a coordinate of self sense. In other words, is there still an experience or do you still have a sense of location that I'm experiencing that So was there a quality of that there was there still a quality of Francesca experiencing that? Yeah.
Yeah, I could feel it. I got it. And when even in the dream when I felt bored, I'm like, Okay, what am I? What am I going to do here? I knew that was the ego in the dream. I realized, you know that that's my defense mechanism. So it wasn't complete that I
have to share this cartoon Do you remember Gary Larson? Remember, the the cartoonist, the really brilliant cartoonist, you probably didn't get his cartoons there. This guy was really brilliant. He has just one terrific cartoon where there is this guy, this guy in a beard, sitting on a big cloud. He's obviously in heaven. And these here's a little thought bubble that says, I wish I would have brought a magazine. I know the words he's bored, right? He's bored being in heaven. And so maybe that was a little bit I wish I would have bought a magazine and so next time what you can do is, is inquire, do the self inquiry. Okay, so this more nuanced, but you can totally do this. It's like, okay, I Okay, this is interesting. I'm I Francesca, I'm still experiencing that. That's not quite yet. There's still subject object going on, right. So what you can then do is in that really subtle, partially formless state, then you can actually then you can inquire type of ALEC investigation, you can actually try to turn the lens of your mind Dec and then see if you can find the experiencer just try it to say okay, who you could do it as a question who is experiencing this look. And then when you do that, you might find that that looking actually consumes the experiencer then like a colon, then you're left with a non dual experience. So these are just really cool options that you can play with. And I mean, it's just really exciting to me. And so I love hearing these stories. Keep up the good travel logs and then share the next journey when we see an x okay. Thank you so much. Yeah, I love it. Really good stuff makes me happy you guys. Thanks for Okay, George fire away, but
yeah, Andrew, can you hear me? I can. Yeah, excellent. Okay. So thank you very much. I highly appreciate your your efforts and your support and your program. It's great. Thank you very much. So, just a while ago, I posted a question on the community forum had the idea to ask this question on the forum. And maybe also that the to get your feedback and maybe it could be discussed between yourself and Tenzin Maryellen. Thank you give the feedback that I should bring it to the q&a and that's okay. I would like to do that today. If that's okay for you. I'll be short. Everyone. So basically, I'm just due to the fact that I'm English is not my native language and it's a little bit more structured. I prefer to read it. Yeah, totally. Alright, so in this book, The Tibetan Tibetan yoga is of dreamless sleep. Tenzin Wangyal writes, If you if we abide in awareness during a dream, we can allow the karmic traces to self liberate as they arise and they will not continue on to manifest in our lives as negative states. As in waking life This will only happen if we can remain in the non dual awareness of Rekha the clear light of the mind. So that was Tenzin Manya. So my question starts here. Basically, for many lucid dreamers it is possible to dream lucidly on a certain level from time to time, and apparently not be deeply in a state of rigpa. One is lucid, emotionally less involved with the dream content, but there might be there might not necessarily be the qualities of bliss for example, present. So at least that's the case for me. So I'm still alright and happy but I'm not in the bliss state. For example, when I'm doing my data and practice, there's a big difference. So basically, here comes two questions. How does the state of resting or recovered during daytime and nighttime practice differ to just being lucid in a dream? Yeah, so that's the first one. Yeah. Show it continue with the second one.
Let me get these one at a time. So a couple of things. Yeah, this is good stuff. I'm going to be interviewing him by the way sometime this summer because I endorsed his book. There's a new issue of that book. Coming out a new edition. They asked me to riff on it. So I did and so he's going to come on. I'm looking forward to that. So a couple of things. Even before you question when you talk about the bliss of rigpa. One of the things we have to be careful of here at least keep in mind this is not the type of conventional over the counter of bliss. And so it's what's called the great bliss. This is the type of bliss that comes through de reification. So it's not this big, orgasmic, happy place that we know conventionally. It's the bliss of bliss, emptiness. And so this is important because if we think we have to run around with a post-coital smile right? All the time. That may not quite be it. It could be if you can relate to it that way. What I'm trying to get at here is the bliss that is referred to here as the great bliss the great equanimity same. There's this as it's actually quite ordinary. It's basically the bliss of release. That's what makes it blissful. And so we call it bliss. Again, somewhat related to the earlier question, only in proportion to the level of contraction prior to that opening. See that's what makes it blissful. So if you're really contracted, and you experience rigpa, which is complete openness, it's ecstatically blissful. But again, it's only because of the preceding level of the cramp. It's like when you wake up in the middle of the night and I'm a runner, this happens to me unfortunately, if I don't eat enough bananas, right, I'll wake up in the middle of the night with a bloody as cramp. hurts like a mofo right? And then when I when I released a cramp, it's like, Oh, my God, this is blissful. Well, before I had the client cramp, it wasn't blissful. It was my normal state. See? So the bliss that we're talking about, this is important. It's not this big, kind of orgasmic type bliss. It's basically a fact if you're open, it's just ordinary. It's not blissful as we know it conventionally. So that's the first thing. Repeat the first question one more time. Just make sure I have it. And then I can definitely run with it or something that came to mind. So
just okay. So the first question was, how does the state of wrestling and rigpa during daytime and nighttime practice differ to just being lucid in a dream?
really different, really different? So when you're looking to connect, it differentiates itself so when you're dealing with rigpa in the dream state, this is this is already transitioning into sleep yoga during the high stages of Dream Yoga, interested in yoga, and the types of dreams that manifests here. This is beyond lucid dreaming and a traditional way. It's an expression of rigpa but But what you're talking about is much more deep, much deeper and more profound. The types of dreams if they arise at all, if you're really resting in rigpa dreams as we know it cease. Because dreams again, this is somewhat connected to the earlier riff on karmic traces being purified. The ultimate purifiers resting and rigpa that purifies more than anything, and when that is brought to fruition, karmic traces are completely purified, liberated. There's nothing to give rise to a dream. So in that case, dreams as we know it stop. And what takes place then is a larger understanding of the notion of dream where this then becomes the dream, dream as code for manifestation of mine. So on one level, if you're if you're completely stable and rigpa, you're no longer dreaming because there's no longer any karmic seeds coming up from the eighth consciousness that's been completely purified. So dream stop. However, until then, you can have rigpa type lucid dreams these are called dreams of clear light. And again, Tenzin right, Rinpoche writes about that, that's what a dream of clear light hits. That's when if you know the language if you're a student of Buddhism, that's also called the unification of generation and completion stage meditation, where the completion stage is rigpa. Within that then generates arises the dream, but it arises is ultra pure illusory form and arises is a completely purified, kind of hyper lucid dream where the dream then manifests as a display of rigpa see Does that make sense? Yep,
makes sense. Makes sense. Okay. Second question. Second question. During daytime practice, the practitioner of texture rests in the nature of mind and does not follow phenomena of the mind. If the practitioner aims to practice Dream Yoga during the night, what is required to deliberately REDIRECT FOCUS in transition to a sort of Tokyo practice, but in this case with green phenomena, so basically, could this be a form of Tokyo practice to to try to rest in the in the nature of mind during a lucid dream, and use the dream images as its similarly as Tokyo images? That's beautiful. So is that your question? You came up with this? Yeah, that's my question. High five,
bro. That's beautiful. Yes, you can work with so again, this gets pretty nuanced. It's a great question. So. So yeah, so for people who are wondering like what are they talking about? So in Zhou Chan, which is the fruition of the Dzogchen path in the NEMA tradition of Buddhism, and also the Booneville. And so Joseph Cheng itself is characterized in a number of different ways, some classifications the two main practices or what he's referring to GA referring to his fracture, cutting through Cadac fracture, cutting through to primordial purity that's cutting through everything to a little bit connected to both Francesca's and Maryann's riffs, cutting through to the base the the rigpa right so cutting through to primordial purity and contact fracture. Clear like mine took all that and here's the here's the difference because we'll toggle with trek show there is there is this kind of intentionality cutting with toggle toggle is crossing over just spontaneous presence so so here this is the type of practice that's associated with what you're kind of sharing connecting to the actual radians or display of the mind of whatever arises and with with with total, you don't do anything. You witness. It's really at least at the entry levels, you simply allow whatever arises to arise and then you bring in the way this ties into attraction I'll see if this is landing with you is deeply also connected to the dreams of clear light is that that whatever arises is automatically seen through see that's the thing, that's why you do texture before you do toggle. Right. Right? Because if you don't do if you don't do that, then what arises you get swept away with it, then you're gonna listen to it. So with that level, if you're resting in complete traction rigpa then whatever arises, you can look at it as an expression of toggle, but it's generally not spoken of in this dimension of Dream Yoga, at least that I'm aware of. Toggle is more specifically related, you can extrapolate it into this arena, but this is not as usual exposition. That is stuff is usually rift on in dark retreat or sky gazing, like gazing practices, right? So you can you can gain the insights using those more traditional approaches and then extrapolate into what you're saying. But I have yet to come across and if you have let me know any texts that talk overtly about toggle within the context of Dream Yoga, I don't know of anybody who actually does that.
Actually, I haven't found that either. The reason why I came up with this this question came up within me was because I tried to practice texture and basically practicing texture as we explained, it's really cutting to the nature of mind and basically then as you explained, but basically then phenomena just get diluted the the the the rise and immediately dissolve so basically is a strong distribution in their practice in their data and practice for me at least. And it's so this this somehow doesn't seem to harmonize with let's say the the the different practice of lucid dream of Dream Yoga. lucidly.
Yes, exactly. It doesn't quite harmonize because you're, you know, they're connected, but they're not the same. And so, when you're doing this during the day the result of that is literally an illusory form. That's when you see the world in this dissolving way through the X ray vision of trek show, then that the world appears as a dream as illusory form. But that's that step that you're talking about into the actual arena again, that's not a traditional exposition. I've never come across it, you can extrapolate some of the things I just mentioned, but it's not quite the same display. Does that make sense?
Makes sense? Thank you very much, Andrew.
Yeah, yeah, good questions, my friend. I appreciate it. Okay, so I think there's one or two in the chat and then we have time to go I'm sorry.
There was four I sent you through the chat.
Yeah, let me look at um, so from Christiana just joined in at the end of that. How does a regular human mortal go to the pure Lance? I guess there's doesn't say go? Yeah. That's such a big topic. That's what my whole dream Sukabumi puroland program was all about. And so these are tricky because some of these questions are so big. You can get there through Dream Yoga. You can get there through traditionalist Pureline practice, you can get there through Tibetan approaches, but since I raved about that so extensively on that course, I'm going to send you to that sorry did you send those at the very end then Alyssa, yes. Although they are okay, here we go. Oh, yeah. From Kathy, can you please explain why in certain practices is checked. It does not work with subtle winds and drops because they're different practices. Subtle winds and drops is a soft, long tingly practice. Absorption is a full formless practice. So they're, they're two different classifications of practices. Unless you're talking about ultimate Bindu principle, which we don't need to go there. To get there. They're just different vectors of meditation. Can you please explain what I've tried to do? Does that work with a subtle because it's not the same set of practices and that's specifically focused on the developing three bodies of a Buddha. be finished. It seems like the practitioner is focused on developing clear light mind without mentioning the reincarnation help living beings. Yeah, there's like five questions in here. Yeah, so the second part just because there's so much in this one is it's not specifically designed to developing the three bodies that were but but it's helping you discover. And again, this is just this is just traction. We're not talking about Southern winds and let's just put that aside. When you're talking about the church of practice, you're you're basically working with Dharmakaya. And so it's not specifically working with that because it's working with Dharmakaya. That's, that's the level of practices associated with that. The the trickeye is implicated in that but it's not overt. So that's one reason if the seems the practitioner is still focused on developing clear light mind. Yes. Well, I mentioned of reincarnation. Yeah. Because again, that's just a different spectrum of practices. It's, it's, it's, it's kind of implied inherent within it, but it's not overtly part of that set of practices. So basically, what you're talking about are three or four different types of practice regimens that are deeply connected, but they're not you can't conflate them all. That's why they're different. They all point to the same sorts of things. But they work with different dimensions. And so that's why that's where some of the confusion is. Coming from. They're not quite all the same thing. Okay. Is there a link to the Pure Land practice course or lectures? Do we have one Alyssa, is that course available?
Be I actually somebody asked about this the other day I think because the recordings were still available, people could purchase the access to just the recordings, but I can find out for sure,
find that and post that for her. That would be great. Thank you for asking. Understand, I appreciate that.
Okay. Up above those two.
Yeah, let me see. There's one from Steph. Let me look at it real quick. The fact that we don't believe we are in the Pureline right now as reflected in what we do to the earth and to each other to ourselves for sure. Thus proving to ourselves that we are certainly not in an impure land. Definitely. It's, it's, you know, pure land like samsara stuff. samsara is a state of mind. It's not a state in reality, pure lands, similar sorts of things. Yes, there is the ontological place, you can go call to comedy. That's, that's exoteric Pureline principle. esoteric. Carolann principle is you're in a pure line right now. You just need to know it. Okay, sorry. Thus proving to ourselves that we certainly not in apparel as such is a circle or karmic cycle I can see how easy it is to be confused and difficult to break the cycle. Yes, it is easy to be confused. And it is difficult to break the cycle. kind of answered your own comment question there. Okay. All right. From Jim Hawk to everyone now that you have those are emitted by the government. Yeah, I just read another thing about that cautiously emitted by some people. You're forcing me to be real by the government by some how do you think that they may fit into the spiritual cosmology? And what do you think this means for the future of humanity? I love these questions because they're so big and they're so great. I don't know what it means for the future of humanity. I really, I just can't address that. It really depends on who you ask. You know, I mean, if they're really real and improving, and we actually get to see them, this could be a monumental game changer. Maybe it'll save us some time from save us from ourselves in time. I don't know how do they fit into the spiritual cosmology? Well, yeah, that's a really good question. Again, I'm not sure exactly what to say there. I think one of the things that will it will help us do is just raise our gaze and think bigger. Anything that breaks us away from the Centricity ease, that opens us expands us like UFOs and so called Alien life versus anything that do that is great. It may be challenging. I think that's one reason why people will reject it because it probably challenges their comfort zone. But these types of questions are merely purely speculation on my part of gym. I wish I could say anything was a little bit more authenticity. It's all just personal opinion. I think you could open open open if it does, that is great. Okay, could you clarify stage seven Dream Yoga instruction? There's a whole webinar on this. What I understood from the thought Yeah, okay, so you were there. From the Thursday class was make a dream body and go places does that basically to for the practice? Yes. That's what you do. In stage seven. You generate a special dream body made out of prana mind and you deliver that special dream body to a pure land or whatever. That's basically the essence the essence of that stage is relatively simple to articulate. Not so simple to actualize, but that's the essence of it. Also, I tried to go to certain place but only the only only the being I tried to encounter showed up. But a different looking place. So I think I need some more clarity. Yeah, I might refer you to Santa to the webinar. We devoted an entire webinar to that the week or so ago, right. And then also I like to write a little bit about that in my book. So unless you can come on live and ask me a little bit more specifically what you're thinking in terms of clarity. It's a little opaque what you're actually asking outside of what I just said. Okay. All right from Jimmy YEAH. What's sleep position and how many hours of sleep per night do you think is best for health and lucidity? Oh, this is the question they asked. Dr. Ed, our sleep doctor comes on second Wednesday of every month. Asleep position depends. Depends on you. How many hours of sleep that depends on the individual seven to nine. So it's idiosyncratic in that regard. But this is a great question for Dr. Ed. Yeah, Lao Tzu and the we have a tradition where nothing is done. Actually, I don't think I don't think it was Lao Tzu who said this. It was Wu Wei Wei or whatever his name was. I don't know these guys. It was allowed to Lao Tzu is the founder of Taoism. But it was another guy who actually said by doing nothing, nothing is left I'm done. Man. That's a great one. Okay, everybody. I think I got them all in. We're right on the hour and a half mark. Did I miss one here?
I think I got them all. Coolness. Great. Thanks, everybody. Nice to see everybody. If you want to turn on your cameras for a big group hug. That'd be great. Remember, whatever merit we have accumulated, any benefit we've done here, we don't keep it for ourselves. We send it out to everybody else, especially all these incredible people that are suffering in Ukraine. I was listening to her talk about Rupert Spiro and Bernardo kastrup. The other day, I was really quite lovely to just briefly nice way to close so to speak, where they were talking about somebody approached Bernardo and said, you know, these people are just like us over there. In Bernardo said, No, they are us. That's really beautiful. They're not just like us, they are us. In so when we open our hearts to the suffering that's happening there and elsewhere, we should always remember that everything we do here, we beam out to those people who are in so much duress and everybody else who's suffering so we're just not doing this for ourselves. But until next time, nice to see everybody always great. Big group hug to everybody. See you around the block and the usual fare analyst if you want to keep the chat open for folks for a few minutes. That'd be great. Otherwise, love these sessions with you. I'll see you in a little bit. Ciao, ciao.