This is thinking cluesive I'm Tim Vegas, radical acceptance. What does that mean to you? There is a concept I learned about in college in the early days of studying humanistic psychology in the work of Carl Rogers, unconditional positive regard. According to Rogers, unconditional positive regard involves showing complete support and acceptance of person no matter what that person says or does. Now this sounds interesting to you. I think you're going to love the conversation I had with Dr. Leah M. Kelly, more after a short break.
Welcome back to Think inclusive where each week we bring you conversations about inclusive education, and what inclusion looks like in the real world. Dr. Leah M. Kelly is a storyteller, writer, activist, teacher, educator, education consultant, and parent who identifies as neuro divergent and otherwise disabled. She was a K 12 public school teacher for over 25 years, and has extensive experience supporting inclusion. Her newly published book, The person who arrives connecting disability studies to educational practice for teachers, parents and others, evolved from her doctoral research, which she completed at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia. She is currently working as an adjunct professor in the Faculty of Education teacher education program at UBC University of British Columbia, and guest lecturing colleges and other programs and organizations, such as case the Canadian Association for supported employment. Dr. Kelly's work focuses on connecting disability studies and education to educational practice strength based perspectives for supporting neurodiversity, addressing ableism, inclusive practices and pedagogy, and cultivating advocacy. In this episode of thinking cluesive Lea and I discussed the power of storytelling, and the importance of including diverse perspectives and disability studies and education. Leah shares personal stories and insights emphasizing the need for radical acceptance in the impact of relationships and fostering inclusion. She also explores the concept of arriving and the connection between acceptance and understanding. Before we dive into our conversation with Dr. Kelly, I want to share a word from this week's sponsor. With one in 36 children diagnosed with autism the Autism Society of America is dedicated to creating connections, empowering everyone in the autism community with the resources needed to live fully as the nation's oldest leading grassroots autism organization, the Autism Society and its approximately 70 affiliates serve over half a million people each year. By championing initiatives that advance equitable opportunities in health care, education, employment, safety and public policy. The organization executes a national reach with meaningful local impact. Through education, advocacy, support and community programming. The Autism Society works toward a world in which everyone is connected to the support they need when they need it. For more information, go to autism society.org. The connection is you. And now my conversation with Dr. Leah M Kelly.
Lea Kelly, welcome to the thing conclusive podcast.
Thanks, Tim. I'm super excited to be here. Leo. We've
known each other for a while but I don't think we ever had a real long conversation. Right?
No, I think we've known each other since like 2012.
Yep, back when we were like bloggers remember that.
I still sort of am but like writing a dissertation since 2015. Kind of and then writing a book. My blog is like, not very active. We've been going elsewhere. But yeah, and then we we finally met
last did last year, almost a year ago, actually, the task conference in Phoenix in Phoenix? Yes. Yes. Yeah. So it's, it's like one of these, it's a strange thing, because, you know, like, we, you know, have both been working towards promoting inclusion and inclusive practices for so long. And it's like, you know, these people might, you know, name and by, by their writing or by, you know, their, their, you know, podcasting and, and all of a sudden, it's like, I feel like I know you.
Yeah, yeah, it is. And you're like Facebook friends for like, over 10 years. And, you know, you watch each other's families and, you know, like, you see, see bits of each other's lives. And then to actually meet is was pretty cool. And then to be working, having this opportunity to work with you in a more professional capacity is, is great.
Well, Leah, the thing that, yeah, the the kind of the impetus of having you on is that you wrote a book now, I'm, you know, very grateful for your advocacy and all of your writing, you know, before that, but our conversation at TASH was you had a book. And so the book is called the person who arrives connecting disability studies, educational practice for teachers, parents and others, I think came out this year.
It did in June. Yeah,
yeah. And so I'd love for us to talk about it. And so one of the things now I gotta get my questions up, sorry, no, one of the thing that that really, it's really forefront in the book is just about storytelling. And there are a lot of stories in the book. And I find that your writing style is actually probably much like your blogging style. And so I'm wondering, like, why is storytelling in particular important to you? And something a distinction that you make in the book is whose story? Like, who? Whose story is important? And why are we identifying the who in the story? So if you could, if we could start off with that, that'd be great.
Why is storytelling important to me? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I think stories are openings. And, and you mentioned, my storytelling is very much like my blogging style. And, and at first, actually, when I started the process of all this, my doctoral dissertation that really evolved into, into this book, I was a little bit worried that I'd been ruined, quote, by blogging, and that it would not be a really academic style. And then I just really keen to own that. That's the way I write. And there's something about blogging, where I want to write very excessively, and have short not just this giant wall of text, but short bits of texts that invite the reader to carry on and keep, keep reading. And I like that. I read better that way. And I do think it's very inviting. So I very deliberately decided that yeah, that that accessibility was important to me. And also stories, I think already said there are openings, there's their ways in the stories in my book, are really woven in, there's not a point where I introduce a now I'm going to tell you a story about this. And I told you this story, and here's what it meant. They're just they just wanted to let the stories do the work and trust in in the stories that are included. So I think storytelling is a way to have people consider ideas and a way to handle sometimes very complex ideas in an inventory, Invitational way that, that encourages people to maybe think differently, to engage with different perspectives. When you ask. And research shows, I mean, if we say that, that storytelling is a super powerful way to learn, if we look at how we how we how important stories are to little children, children, their ways of learning or or if you look at folklore, how how cultures and communities, share, share history or share what's important or share the way they do things, their pride. stories do that. And so we know stories are are useful, great learning tool, a great way to engage great way to build community. And so if I want to say, hey, world, how about we think about this differently? Arrays are a tool or a vehicle to bring in other perspectives and invite people to consider things a different way. And then we talk about whose story is anyway.
Yeah, tell tell us more about about that idea.
Well, I have this little image I did, we had an assignment where I had to do a drawing or a representation of where I was in my journey. And so I drew myself with frizzy hair, in a little wolf suit on on a boat that I sketch very much like, Sendak's boat and where the wild things are. And, and then I wrote on the bottom, like, whose story is anyways, like is and had me thinking about, like, how often stories are appropriate, even taken on and interpreted by someone, and the point might be missed, you know, like, saying, and I included this story, because, right, and it, but it's someone else's story. And also thinking about, I write to tell somebody else's story, because I don't, I think we have the right to tell our own story. But then I had an opportunity to include other stories, with people's permission, of course, and yeah, and so those so other perspectives, like, are pulled in, in this book. So that idea of who's writing the story, is it written by a disabled person, which is how I identify as as neurodivergent, and otherwise disabled? And so I'm telling my story, but also really considering, like, whose story are we telling whose perspective are we drawing upon when we inform our practice as, as parents and as educators and as people in community, when we consider our conceptualization or understanding of disability of what it means to be disabled? And big questions like about, like, is to be disabled to be broken, or less than? And and I want to, I hope to challenge those ideas. And, yeah, was that I addressed that? Yeah.
Well, what? What story? I mean, is there, is there a big story that you're trying to tell with the book, I know, you have lots of little stories, you know, whether that's either your story or stories that you've, you've gotten permission to share. But is there a central theme or a bigger story,
I think there would be multiple, bigger stories at the heart of I think of all the stories is relationship, and how important the way we interact with one another is that stories create a way to understand really complex topics or ideas. And then I think the big idea of this book is, here's this concept, this whole field, which is Disability Studies, or specifically Disability Studies in Education. And it's not something necessarily that people are familiar with. I didn't encounter it until I was in a doctoral program. And I was like, what, like, how can this even be, and so to take those ideas that maybe not widely known, and four ways to what I hope, make these ideas, not way in academia or way in certain, you know, circles, but just something that everybody can relate to an access? The idea is that there's other models of disability, like a variety of models of disability and consider on when we're working with other people, what are what looking at stigma, looking at the importance of language we use, just even how we conceptualize or, or even the ability to talk about disability, which I think sometimes is really at risk to being disappeared under the umbrella of diversity, or well, we are already talking about diversity, so we don't need to specifically name disability. And then the stigma around and the reluctance around using the word disability can be problematic, especially if we're at risk of of erasing that experience and identity and the ability to talk about ableism and address it when stigma. So and there are some pretty elaborate linguistic workarounds to avoid saying the word with your mishit, I will say, you know, like diverse stability and differently abled and Handi capable and handicapped posts like away. And and so what does that say about stigma if we can't even say the word? So even? So being able to say, Yeah, I identify as disabled is a push back in my perspective, and in many people's perspective, against the stigma of disability, because it's normal. Disability is normal. It's natural. It's, yeah, it's part of the full range of human experience.
Right, right. I always find the, the work around language. It may come from, I don't know, I don't want to assume it. It's more like a person may have a particular intention of not trying to offend. Right, by using that language. But it also, it shows that they're probably if you're using that language, you're probably not in a, in many relationships with disabled people, because the vast majority of people that, that I've had conversations with that, that say that they're disabled, and use that word, are perfectly comfortable using that word. But it's also not like I haven't met a disabled person that that prefers to use other language. So it's more like, an indication of like, well, maybe you should, maybe maybe you should consider having or having more relationships with people who are disabled, before you start using language? I don't I don't know if that makes sense.
No, it totally does. And, and I think predominantly, like, teacher education programs and stuff are very heavily informed by people who say you shouldn't say it as if like, yeah, right. A 10. There's a tendency, and, and I also think that what you're kind of talking about too, could be internalized ableism, that people see the world disabled as something full of shame. And, and I think you're right, with good intent. They've been trained up to not say disabled, but also, they think that to say disabled is to be ignoring the things that are wonderful. And so they have to say, you know, differently abled, and so they're still acknowledging ability. Well, of course, they're still abilities. But disability is actually a real thing. Yeah. So,
yeah,
yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. I don't have the answers. I think it's, it can be nuanced. It shifts and changes depending on who, what groups you're talking with to. Right. And yeah, and I think key, the key thing is to ask people what they prefer, and then respect that. But predominantly, in big picture, I want to say disability because I want to change things picture. Exactly. Yeah,
exactly. So you've said in your book, that you envision it as an enactment of inclusion. And I'd love for you to unpack that phrase for us.
Okay, yeah, well, even just one of the tenants of disability studies is to draw upon lived experience. So even drawing in other stories from other activists, and that is itself, I think, an enactment of inclusion. And then including my own voice and way of being, I really disrupted in many ways what would typically be expected in in a book or dissertation, like I don't have chapters, I have arrivals, I don't have a table of contents, I have an itinerary and, and it's woven together, maybe in unexpected ways, and it can jump from a story to a poem to a drawing to more you know, I'm pulling from research kind of piece. And that is actually really reflective of the way my mind works. It can be kind of a messy swirl of things that just sort of light up and connects like a constellation of stars but in maybe unexpected ways. And I I wanted, I didn't want a team that I wanted it to be reflective of that neurodivergent approach that was mixed methodology that drew from different things in unexpected ways and kind of mess things up a little bit but still took you on this trip. This was still was Invitational still was a journey still was cohesive, like so mixed up but made sense if that. It was like putting a puzzle together actually, putting all the stories together, I conceptualize the stories as like little beads on a string. And, and I actually had this whole file called Story beads right or, and, and so or, and a nice so I could string them where I wanted and figure out where they belonged or like floats cast on a net on the seat, you know that there's these, these little beads that could be moved about. So, so not only is my structure different and reflective of like my own neuro divergence, but also in terms of inclusion and, and I feel like I need to recognize my privilege, my, like white Canadian sis, zing, secure food secure privilege, and, and having access to academia. And, and I felt like if I could get my foot in the door, I wasn't going up. And so how do I bring these other perspectives with me. And there's so much beautiful and insightful and rich, even available in disabled communities, artistic communities, that isn't drawn upon when we're informing research or informing practice, whether it's our practice as a parent, or as an educator, as someone working in community. And I saw this gap in terms of both connecting the ideas of disability studies to what we do in our lives, but also this gap, that in access, and that these people with amazing work didn't necessarily have access to academia, and academia wasn't necessarily drawing on this amazing work. And so I'm very, very deliberately, I took on this notion that blogs, podcasts and other sources of information are actually peer reviewed. It's just a different set of peers, and maybe a more important set of peers, because it's the people with lived experience in community. And then my deal was like, well, by putting things like blogs or Facebook statuses or things not normally drawn upon, in app like not typically drawn upon, in academia and research, by putting them side by side with more traditional sources, I am in essence saying they are of equal value. Yeah, so teaching and research and writing is political. And it is an opportunity for activism. And I leave that using the opportunities locked into because of privilege to shine a light on these other notions, these other ideas, this other really, really important and rich work is at the heart of what I wanted to do. I don't do this work alone. I've been absolutely generously granted missions, by people in, in disability communities, to, to include their work and weave it in with my stories and, and my stories about, about my relationship with my son. So so in that way, this book includes me and my own unusual ways of thinking and being, but and then it structure. But it also includes people not normal, typically, often traditionally included in what might be kind of an academic ish work, but it's not also not an academic work, because it can because if we're talking inclusion, it's incredibly accessible. And that's because of stories and doodles and poems. And the way it's woven together. So so all of those elements, I think are reflective of what is inclusion and who we bring it and who was welcomed and who was like, let me look at what you have to say or let me include what you have to say because it's so important
is there a story that sticks out to you I know that you you may you said you might want to read something or share something from the book. Is there something on top of mine And, well, I
have stories with, with my son and, and we've sat together and gone over every story. And at every point I was like, you know, we can exclude anything and he's like always like really affirming known and I'll keep it in. So there's a story called turn their head a little bit of an interaction with Arizona Knight, who's my adult son. And should I read that then? Yeah, that'd be great. After Harrison completed grade 12. In June of 2018, he was accepted into a one year workplace Employment Program at the University of the Fraser Valley for students with disability. In July 2018, prior to the start of the fall term, it seemed timely to discuss how some of the other students might not have the same background in understanding disability as identity, and disability pride as he does. Harrison had been enrolled in a distance education school for the past nine years, and had seldom encountered people who were not immersed in disability, culture and pride, having been quite deliberately, surrounded by activist mentors and friends and disability communities. I wanted him to consider that the other students may have only ever been told that in jewels such as himself were special, and never heard of ableism. I suggested. So people might have been hearing their whole lives from their parents and from their schooling, that disability is a word you shouldn't use, and that they have special needs and that they're special. Harrison added. Yeah, well, they're probably not hearing that from people with disabilities. So there was a comfortable, but lengthy pause. And then he went on to explain his notion of gently offering another perspective. So I was thinking about the task program, try to turn their heads a little bit like, it's kind of like X, Xbox or PlayStation One has more benefits or slightly better benefits. Some people might like one more than the other, like, that sort of thing. But with disability, I check my understanding, so high now. So to kind of just clump them on the head with ideas about ableism. And other things might be harsh. But your notion of turning their head a little bit, showing them there's another way? Yes, he confirmed, like considering Xbox or Playstation. Oh, I tried to keep pace. It's a metaphor. And in doing that, you're not suggesting what you've been doing is bad, even though you and I might think there are negative things about that. Just think about a different view. He cut me off, or perhaps graciously supported my ongoing struggle to process all things gaming, and just turn their head a little bit. That's beautiful. Oh, I love that, quote, completely blown away. Harrison confirmed. Yeah. And we were both quiet for a long time after that. There was nothing more to say. I
love that perspective. I I'm not sure how to address this. It's I love the perspective, Harrison, talking about just trying to just trying to change mindsets, just a little bit not hitting anybody over the head with anything. And I've definitely experienced both. Sometimes
when you're passionate, it's so hard not to want to do the club on the head. Right? Right. I feel that frustration at times. And I Yeah, so I really appreciate that notion. Sometimes that's I just take a breath and remind myself of Harrison's where it's just turn their head a little bit like Yeah,
yeah. That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. And thank you to Harrison for sharing that story as well in the book. So something in the book, let's, if you mind, if you don't mind, I'd like to take some of these questions out of order. Because in the book, you talk about radical acceptance. And then this idea of arriving and I love your table of contents isn't a table of contents, and it's an itinerary. I thought that was very, I mean, it's clever. Yes, it is clever, but it's also thoughtful. And I think that I think when you look at the book, it really is very thoughtfully put together. And so when you use the word arrive, how is this idea of acceptance and arrival connected or are they did I did I misread that? I?
Well, first off, thank you. And no, I think you're right there, they are connected. Let's start with that idea. Arrival, like I have, like you said, an itinerary and I have arrivals instead of chapters. So there are multiple arrivals. And I wanted the structure of my work to reflect that. And, and the idea of arrival, not being a final destination, that there are the series. It's not that I have arrived, or someone has arrived, I don't think that ever happened. It's more of an ongoing process. And I also draw upon Hannah Arendt notion of the totality. And that's, that an arrival, a moment of vitality is like birth, right? And that when someone arrives in your world, or your life or your classroom, that is a moment of arrival, that is relational. It both of you actually arrive at that moment of connection and relationship. And in that moment, it's a moment of the totality of birth in a way for for both people. And to look at the opportunity there, and how are you change? And how am I changed when we interact? Because both people are changed. When we meet and how I relate in that moment, that moment sometimes can be so critical, it might be just a moment in our past for some people, but some, sometimes a moment can exist always in someone's present. So that welcoming that. And that. So being conscious of that arrival of of the natality of that moment, and how both people are changed in relationship. And how we respond, leads right into that idea of radical acceptance, I get to choose my response and who I am in that arrival. And it's relational. And then the notion of radical acceptance that I absolutely accept you and welcome you as you are in this. That you're being your best self. And to be able to see, when we're talking about disability, that child that arrives in my classroom, or that child that is born into my family, or that, you know, teenager that arrives home in that moment of frustration, or whatever it is, like that they're they're bringing their whole self, they're their best self in that moment. And how do we see that, especially when we're talking about disability as not broken? As not, I'll welcome you when you can do this. Or once you can do that, then you'll be welcomed. Because that I think sets up this whole thing, what if I can never do that thing would not be welcomed. And, and there's a relationship to shame. When there's not a welcoming, right, I would be welcomed if it just wasn't this about me or just wasn't that. So I think radical acceptance is really key to, to inclusion to saying that, and to to understanding that that relationship is at the heart. Right? I mean, there's other things around Universal Design and and looking at environment and looking at the way we structured learning and looking at honing in on like the big idea. So, you know, the curriculum goal is like huge target. You know, we can all meet that. Like, I could talk about that. But that's not what this is about. This is about how do we unsane how do we conceive of disability? Well, more when we're layering that on? In terms of radical acceptance?
Yeah, it's more of the way you the mindset or the way that you set your heart. Right. As opposed to it's not really a strategy. It's more of a
no, it's not a program,
right? Yeah, exactly.
Not like, on day two, you will What did this worksheet and then you'll be here, it's not a workbook, it is like it's it. It's an attunement, it's, it's, it's the ocean and you're, you're the ocean and the craft and the other person is the ocean and the craft. There's currents, there's undercurrents, we affect each other. We're the wind, we're the sail, we're both both. And so it's how how do we support one another? How do we work to understand perspectives and honor and really believe what children or students are telling us that we honor, and trust, their experience and and again, honor that lived experience and center it in our relationship. Yeah.
You have the, you share another example in the book. And this is an example from Harrison. And I don't remember, I'm not going to be able to remember the the exact story, but he references in the writing the book about him being out of ink, which I think is just such a brilliant way of saying, you know, the how we all feel sometimes. And, and I wonder if that relates to this idea of spoons? I'm not a great. Like, this is not how I would describe energy levels. But I know some people describe it that way. I was wondering if, if that's something that you could speak to? Absolutely.
So I think what you're talking about is Christine Messer, and dinos, Spoon Theory. And, and it's a widely understood metaphor in disability communities, that resources can fluctuate, that they might be available one day and not another, and that they can be limited. When, when you're disabled. And that there aren't just an endless supply of spoons, so you have to pick and choose, and sometimes you're just out of spoons. And there's not more spoons. This is like, that's it. Right? Yeah. And I've shared that with my husband, Craig. And that whole idea of the metaphor and the ability to talk about our personal resources, whether it's like executive function or, or energy or focus, or just even patients, sometimes whatever it is, you know, it can be, it can be physical, it can be all sorts of different kinds of resources, energy, and just being able to have the language talk about I don't have spoons for that and to, to have the language to, to engage and understand each other is great and helpful and important to understand and talk about these perspectives. And, and I had often shared that when I was working with families and students. And there's a quote, actually, from Kimberly face, who was a part of the moderation and ongoing organizing group with me in Pamela, which is Facebook and log group, which is parenting, autistic, children's love and acceptance. And she has a quote, I hope I get it, right. So just because a disabled person is able to perform, the way you think they should one time or a few times, doesn't give you the right to hold that up over their head. It doesn't mean the act is sustainable. It doesn't dictate ability, capability, or potential. And if the disabled person is unable to replicate that again, it doesn't mean they chose not to do it, or being defiant or otherwise trying to, quote, piss you off. And this is disability 101. That's kind of the quote. And I think that that uneven access to resources, that you can do something one day, but maybe not the next is, is something that's seen as volitional or manipulative, and framed that way. And so to give teachers and families and parents and kids, that students that are children, that information is important, it's important step in terms of being able to advocate for yourself, that self understanding the notion that, well, the connection between self understanding and advocacy is huge. And then often, it seems like when, because compliance can be so heavily enforced as a goal, or a power, that if you don't do this, maybe none of the kids will or I need to stay in control. If you're a teacher or a parent, it can interfere with trust. And I'm going to come back to the outer ink but I'm gonna go a little bit similar first, just in terms of the understanding between advocacy and, and drawing lines and saying no, and knowing what your limits are, and and when you're learning a new skill, it can be messy. So when you're learning to advocate for yourself, it can be messy. Children might not sing or people anyone might not be children might not sing their advocacy, when they're learning the skill of advocating for themselves. It might not be in pretty tones are pretty words. On my blog, I have this blog written quite a long time ago, but with this idea of a tone hierarchy, and that often we see the tone as the most important thing is a hierarchy. And as educators and parents and other people working with disabled people, sometimes we we put the tone as the most important and use that you can't talk like that, to me tone as a way of disregarding all the rest such. And I think that we can understand tone and interpret differently as a layered in understanding of the intensity, this person's experiencing, not taking it on as something that's a challenge to us. And we could set aside tone in that moment of distress or moment of attempted advocacy, and deal with it or address it at another time separately, but just read it as Wow, this is intense for that person, and actually still listen to others. They do have when we're learning something new, and it might be clumsy and limit setting there's a, I have a post about two about how it can be messy at first, right? And that drawing your line before you're out of resources can be sloppy, messy and sticky. Right? And that you might be advocating for yourself, when you're already out of spoons, or out of resources, and you're not regulated anymore. Instead of when you see it coming. Understanding that oh, this is an taking steps. You're like not taking a step until you're right. And as I bet as parents, we both done that, too. Like you're home from work, the phones are here, you're trying to cook dinner, and your kids asking your question all at the same time. And maybe it's not your best moment. Right? So those points when we're at capacity. And I think supporting advocacy means that we're going to support the attempts to advocate even when it's not sung in pretty words, you know, even when the tone isn't nice, but we're going to trust the message because that builds relationship. So then if we look at the audit, I'm gonna, I'm leading into the out of ink story, the idea that when spoons are gone, they're gone. Could she read a little bit about this, please? Okay. I've never shared The Spoon Theory with Harrison. And that is not an act of omission, but rather, it's because he came up with his own metaphor before I had the opportunity. I remember one day a few years back, asking him to do a thing. And he simply refused nonplussed matter of factly explaining that he was out of ink, it was so clear, nope, I'm out of ink. I cannot do that. I am done. Harrison was so solid and confident. And his assertion was just that it was stated, not as a compliant, not sorry, not as a complaint, or with that polygenic wishing tone that might be used when someone feels shame that they're not able to do more. I know, I felt shame when I lack resources. And at times, I push until I cannot push anymore. Whether it's pushing through chronic pain, or handling sensory overload, or dot, dot dot. I wonder how my stance conveys an underlying message to others and myself that I'm perhaps undeserving of limits, or that I'm seeking permission or the approval of others, essentially abdicating dominion over my body. And my sense that what will work for me, the line I draw might be blurry, drawn tentatively, and in a way that implies it's negotiable. And perhaps I could should push it a bit further. Harrison's message conveyed no sense of shame. It was a clear unequivocal delineation, there is no more ink. I'm out. This is not negotiable. Done. With all the aplomb of reporting a simple fact and a clarity that I long to emulate no apology. No, I wish I could, oh, I'm sorry, or I hope I haven't let you or myself down. No offering up of evidence that reinforces that honoring his boundary was some would somehow require proof that it's real, nothing tentative in his assertion that creates a space for a second guessing where a place for the judgment of others to find a landing even he demonstrates that he knows himself with a quiet clear announcement. I'm out to make a cannot do that. I'm done. And so people could say like, well, what if I do that? What if they start doing that all the time? Right? What if they start and I can tell you that because it's relational. I can say I would say this, this is would be true in a classroom too. Because Harrison knows I have his back and vice versa. He never pushes it if he says he's out of ink is absolutely out of ink. And it's clear. And, and so I hardly ever hear it's because he would only say it if you really needed it, because he trusts that he's going to be listened to. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That just seems so like, I think I said earlier, trust when kids, students, people tell us what they need trust. Right.
Right. Yeah, there's such an important point. Because when you say that they're being manipulative, you know, it just shows how much you don't trust the learners in your classroom. And it also probably means how much they don't trust you. You know, and,
or maybe not us specifically, but just the environment or the space, or Sure, or maybe they're bringing previous experiences with them. You know, and, and there can be some unlearning of both parts that need to happen. Like sometimes students have had experiences that, that don't have them feeling safe, in particular environments, or, or sometimes, sadly, in school or in other places. And so how do we how do we build relationships that have them know that we're gonna have their back?
Right, right. Right.
And, and it's tricky, but I do, I do really believe that the relationship is at the heart of it, you know,
when we return the mystery question.
This is interesting. What's the strangest thing you've ever seen in the middle of the road? Oh, I'm trying. I'm trying to think, Gosh, what's the strangest thing? Are you gonna go first? Well, I'm trying to I've seen a lot of things in the middle of the road. But I don't know if any of them are that strange. But
I have one. Okay. Honestly, the only thing that pops into my head, okay, so I live in the Fraser Valley close to Vancouver, British Columbia. And the community I am is sort of a farming community. And when my kids were little, and I had to write report cards, I used to go to school really early, early, early in the morning. Because it was my way of stealing time. Right? If I did, at the end of the day, I was too tired, because there were family things so I could figure out how to steal time. I've always been thieving time, hopefully won't be noticed. So I'm on my way out this sort of country road to the school, I taught it. Awesome, awesome little school. And there's possum in the road. And it was last it honestly, I was. I mean, often I see possums that had been hit by vehicles. And I had this moment where I realized my headlights were shining on it. And it was wandering, like, it was like, you know, the Family Circus cartoon where the kids got to go get something from the garage, and you see this huge path of all the other things that happen or later on, it's a crush, but it was like that multiplied with like exponents like this, it could not find its way off the rope. Oh, wow. I was like a nice. So I just waited a long time. That was kind of giggling and kind of going well, how long will it stick? But it really was lost. And just I don't know, maybe it was attractive in my headlights or something. But it was just a very strange thing. And I have compassion for pawsome. Now, they do good things. They eat a lot of insects and that sort of thing. So they're good for the environment. Sometimes they're not very well loved. But seen seen it lost in the middle of the road was pretty strange and kind of fun.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, thank you for sharing that. Gosh. I don't know if I can. All I kept thinking about was was animals and not that not the live ones.
Okay, we're on the same. I know.
There was a time when we were in when we were in Florida. It's in the St. Augustine area. So this would be like the opposite end of the the panhandle, but just on the other side of Florida. And, uh, we had gone to like a state park to camp. And there's this long stretch of road between the State Park and like the main city and so you'd have to drive that long part. And there were these enormous turtles that would go across the road and they were not fast turtles.
They were very lost and they were slow. Exactly,
exactly. And that's all I kept thinking about how large these turtles were, and how you wouldn't want to hit one of these turtles, because it would seem like well, not only would the turtle, you know, sure perish, but also it would do like a number on your vehicle. So I just was fascinated with these turtles that would move so slow, and but there were, but fortunately, there were signs up everywhere warning you about the turtles. So it's not as if it would be a surprise. So I guess it wouldn't meet necessarily be a strange thing. But we don't normally have turtles running around Georgia. So
okay, so we have turtles crossing the road here.
No, no,
there's turtles around, but they're not big turtles.
The Turtles we have are like tiny turtles. They're like in the river. You know? So anyways, well, great. See, that was fun. That was like it was fun.
Yeah, it was unexpected. Like,
yeah, it's kind of like, never know what you never know the mystery, a mystery question.
So we both had like creatures on the road. Mine was fast. And last year's was slow and very clear in its direction. Exactly.
Exactly. Leah Kelly, thank you so much for being on the thing conclusive podcast.
Well, Jim, thank you very much for having me. It was an honor. And I'd been very much looking forward to it and the straight thanks.
That chime means it's free time. It's April, y'all, which is also autism acceptance month. And to kick us off, I wanted to share a commencement speech with you. It's by Elizabeth Walker, who is an autistic non speaker who communicates by typing. I had the pleasure of meeting Elizabeth at the Council for parent attorneys and advocates annual conference in March of this year. This speech is for 2022 when Elizabeth graduated as one of the valedictorians of Rollins College. And here's what I love about this speech. It's a call to take care of each other, and to accept each other. And I think that is what this world needs more of
greetings to my fellow members of the elated class of 2022, and to the relieved parents, cheering siblings and dear friends who supported us. Salutations to the caring faculty, administrators, and staff who fed our brains and nurtured our souls. I would also like to thank my fellow valedictorians, Emily Curran, Sophia Fraus, Charlie melon, and Jessica Linna. Meyer, for giving me the honor of addressing you. Rollins College Class of 2022. Today we celebrate our shared achievements. I know something about shared achievements. Because I am affected by a form of autism that doesn't allow me to speak. My neuromotor issues also prevent me from tying my shoes or buttoning a shirt without assistance. I have typed this speech with one finger with a communication partner holding a keyboard. I am one of the lucky few non speaking Autistics who have been taught to type that one critical intervention unlocked my mind from its silent cage, enabling me to communicate and to be educated. Like my hero Helen Keller. My situation may be extreme, but I believe Rollins has shown all of us how sharing gives meaning to life. During my freshman year, I remember hearing a story about our favorite alumnus, Mr. Rogers. When he died, a handwritten note was found in his wallet. It said life is for service. You have probably seen it on the plaque by strong Hall. Life is for service. So simple, yet so profound. Classmates, you have shared your passion for service within our community. Our friends in the sororities and fraternities raise money for so many worthy causes. Our friends at Pinehurst we blankets for the homeless. The examples are too numerous to list. Rollins has instilled in all of us that service to others gives meaning to our own lives and to those we serve. Victor for Frankl wrote about the power of sharing in his book, Man's Search for Meaning. While suffering in the Nazi concentration camp at Auschwitz. He noted how, despite the horror, there were prisoners who shared their last crust of bread. He writes, everything can be taken from a man but one thing, the last of the human freedoms to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way. We all have been given so much including the freedom to choose our own way. Personally, I have struggled my whole life with not being heard or accepted. A story on the front page of our local newspaper reported how the principal at my high school told a staff member, the retard can't be valedictorian. Yet today, here I stand. Each day, I choose to celebrate small victories. And today, I am celebrating a big victory with all of you. The freedom to choose our own way is our fundamental human right. And it is a right worth defending not just for us, but for every human being. I want to publicly thank Rollins College for taking a chance on me for caring about every student for being a place where kindness lives. Dear classmates, today we commence together. But from here, we will choose our own ways. For me, I have a dream. Yes, just like Martin Luther King, Jr. I have a dream. Communication for all. There are 31 million non speakers with autism in the world who are locked in a silent cage. My life will be dedicated to relieving them from suffering in silence, and to giving them voices to choose their own way. What is your dream? How will you use your Rollins education to fulfill your mission? How will you rise up to meet the unprecedented challenges of our time? Whatever our life choices, each and every one of us can live a life of service to our families, to our communities and to the world. And the world can't wait to see our light shine. So my call to action today is simple. Tear off a small piece from your commencement program and right life is for service on it. Yes, we gave you the pens to really do it. Let's start a new tradition. Take a photo and post it on social media. Then put it in your wallet or some other safe place just as Mr. Rogers did. And when we see each other at our reunions, we can talk about how our commencement notes reminded us to serve others. We are all called to serve as an everyday act of humility as a habit of mind. To see the worth and every person we serve. To strive to follow the example of those who chose to share their last crust of bread. For to whom much is given much as expected. God gave you a voice use it. And know the irony of a non speaking autistic encouraging you to use your voice is not lost on me. Because if you can see the worth in me, then you can see the worth and everyone you meet my fellow classmates, I leave you today with a quote from Alan Turing, who broke the Nazi encryption code to help when World War Two sometimes it is the people no one imagines anything of who do the things no one can imagine. Be those people be the light. Fiat Lux Thank you.
That's it for this episode of thinking cluesive A big thank you to the Autism Society for being our sponsor for the month of April. Learn more at autism society.org. Thinking cluesive is written, edited, designed, mixed and mastered by me Tim Vegas and is a production of the Maryland Coalition for Inclusive Education. Are you ready to become an MCIE partner? Go to MCIE.org to learn more about who we are and what we do. Original Music by miles credit additional music from melody that's m ELOD dot i e. Thanks for your time and attention and remember, inclusion always works
Do you have any questions before we
getting Um, no. I listened to the other podcasts. So I think I get it. We're just like having conversation. And if I like go well hang on. You can edit whatever out. Yep,
yeah, if if you hear it is
was so awkward. Can I say that again? I just go quiet.
Yeah, you can just say hey, I'd like to say that again. And then I'll be like, okay,
right and you'll be able to like and to not talk too fast will make things easier for editing. Right?
Well, don't worry about me. Just talk however you want to talk. So, yeah, yeah, no, no worries. All right, we good? Yeah. Okay. MCIE e
