Hello, and welcome to the Book Club Review. I'm Laura.
I'm Kate. And this is the podcast about book clubs and the books that get people talking.
It's that time of year again, and Booker Prize fever is upon us. In this our annual special episode we'll be discussing and debating each of this year's shortlisted books, while keeping half an eye on the ceremony, which will have live streaming in the background. That means you'll also get our full and frank reactions when we find out the winner.
We're joined by journalist and regular podcast guest Bill Chafee, who is zooming in from New York. And we're welcoming a new friend of the show, one with no small amount of book expertise. But his blog eyes on the prize he has read and reviewed every single book a winner since the prize began in 1968. Joining us from London, it's Martin book, the
era of the Jonathan's may be over but could we be embarking on the age of the Paul's wrote Emily temple or lit hub, noting that 50% of the booker shortlist has been written by people named Paul, only one British writer Chetna Maru, and only two women including Maru and Sarah Bernstein made the list
novelist SEO to weaken chairs the judging panel, she herself was shortlisted for the prize in 2011, for Half Blood blues, and in 2018, for Washington black. Joining us again on the jury are writer and director adjoa andoh. Oh, it's lecturer, editor and critic Mary Jean Chan, author James Shapiro, and actor and writer Robert Webb, reflecting on the judging process, and we can quote a line from standoff. A novel is a mirror carried along the high road, year after year, she continues, the Booker Prize encourages us to take sight of ourselves in the lives of others, to slip for the length of a story into different skins to grapple with unfamiliar worlds that allow us to see our own approach. And so let's take a look at this world of ours viewed through the lens of these books. Let's
dive into our 2023 Booker Prize show.
Phil, great to have you here. As always, what's the level of Booker interest out there in New York?
For folks who read a lot, it's on their radar, it's not the prize. It's sort of feel like given equal weight out here to the Pulitzer the National Book Awards, but the Booker is definitely that they're much more than national words and Canada or Ireland or something.
A Martin, tell us a little bit more about your eyes on the prize blog. So this caught my attention because you didn't just decide to review the prize winning book for each year you put them in context. You consider the judges you consider the other books on the shortlist you consider the events happening in the wider world at the time. I love the deep dive and you more than delivered that with every single post. What got you started and what made you want to approach it that way,
was a lockdown project, I think in the second lockdown of late 2020, when things were very much weather wise as they are now not much else to do need a project. Always love reading, I did an English Lit degree about 15 years before that point. In interim period, I'd been a little bit patchy in my reading, shall we say, dotting here and there between things maybe sticking to a certain genre of author, a lot of those Brett authors of the 80s and 90s a lot of men as well. And I thought, let's see, let's try and widen my horizons a little bit. I love a list. I work in music. And there's a music blog that's always done lists of artists albums called worst, the best. And I thought let's see how that works for literary prizes. And then 57 books later, I got to rank them. And that was fun and only took me a couple of years to get around to that point.
I love a list too. I'm curious to know then you read 57 Booker winners in succession. Did that change you? Ah,
that's a big question. I think there's one big thing which is that I was a little bit prone to giving up on books before doing this exercise books that didn't grab me in the first half. And that's really the biggest shift has just been in my reading style. I now realise there are so many books out there that don't have their pay off until the second half. It's a peak and effect thing. It's what you come out of a book feeling not what happens in the first 50 pages. You know, there are books on that vocalist that really demonstrate that massively. I think the first one that blew me away on that front was Nadine Gordimer as the conservationist, which was a slog if I'm being brutally honest, but I feel so much to Richard for having made it through to that incredible ending of that book. Yeah, that's the one thing I like on that front.
Well, I'm so excited I'm sure is this the can tell it the idea of actually having someone who's got some kind of book or expertise. I can't resist asking you this one last question, which is, given that you've read all these books and you've really put What about the Booker Prize a lot and the booker winners a lot. Is there something you think that defines a booker winning book,
I throw around this word Booker ish in inverted commas on my blog quite a lot without properly having stopped to define what I mean by that. It is a tricky one. I started off doing these decade based summaries of what I thought the key themes were within the Booker and they change they shift with the times they shift with the whims of the judges tastes. You've got different judges every year alongside the literary heavyweights, you get anything from the former archbishop of canterbury to Jeremy from peep show who is on this year's judging panel. So it's really difficult to know what it's gonna throw up. In general, though, they seem to land in a vaguely similar place, not universally, but vaguely, which is books with a general seriousness of purpose, a little bit of worthiness, but never really books that are that overly disruptive or challenging to the point where I think there are prizes that have sprung up more recently to address that lack of the book or being about innovation, really. And I think what you end up with is these books. And I think there's maybe a commercial imperative to this as well, that the prices are shooting for books that make you feel a bit smarter than you were before. And they usually achieve that, but without alienating people with a real level of difficulty. And I think there is a thread through them as well, nearly without exception. They're all great books. They are great storytelling books. It's why I think there are certain books and maybe we'll come across one, at least in the discussion tonight that maybe stray a little bit from that and a more like intellectual exercises. And I don't know if the book a regularly goes in for books that are purely intellectual exercises without that captivating storytelling that's ultimately essentially going to sell books.
Interesting. Well, yes, we are going to go through all six books. And let's see if we can figure out the one we think best fits that definition, or whether the judges will surprise us because of course, the judging panel changes every year, doesn't it? So it's impossible to expect any consistency, when by its very nature, you get a different set of people making this decision. Yeah, I'm interested in this quality book. Arish, let's see if we can figure out which of these books is the most book Rich. And Laura, we're very lucky to have you because Laura is dialling in from Hawaii, where she's having a lovely holiday.
It's true, I am, I think I've gone the other way of Martin in recent history, I have not finished a single one of these Booker books, which is unprecedented, but my life is too full. If a book doesn't grip me at the moment, I just don't have that bandwidth to commit myself to something that isn't offering me in some ways a break from my regular very, very busy life at the moment. Now that said, I have read the first 10% of each of the novels. Because my Kindle lets me read the first 10% So I have a taste. But I'm really here to poke at these guys, for any of our listeners who also haven't read the books to probe a little.
I think there were two things that struck me about the shortlist for a lot of people. I think judging by the commentary when it was announced. One was that the judges had gone for the unexpected, and they definitely gone for lesser known writers while leaving out some quite big names from the long list, and then the shortlist. So an obvious one that comes to mind is Sebastian Berry. The other is the downbeat mood of all these books, one has a dead bird on the cover, and other has two girls in grey curled up in a whole book entitled, if I survive you doesn't sound like it's going to be outlet. And although this other Eden has an apple on the cover, it's not a very jolly apple. And I think that coming at this time when it feels like there is a lot of very scary stuff happening in the world. My sense was that this was perhaps more than usual, quite a challenging list. My feeling was that less people have read the shortlist this year than maybe they have done in previous years. And that taps into we talked about this, Laura quite early on that there were some of these books that you just like I can't face reading that right now. Yeah, I think
that's true. They all feel very topical, even when they're not set in the present day. They feel to be engaging with the present day. And there is also a part of me at this point in time to where I'm slightly more interested in reading classics, or even like sci fi novels where there's tide of pulling apart what it means to be human, rather than novels that feel very of this moment of looking for longer point of views that maybe they're in here. You guys are going to tell me, that's
what I've noticed. I feel like this is a shortlist where I think the judges, this is what they want us to do. These are books which examine the world, they hold up a mirror to the world. And they ask us to look at it. It hasn't been easy. But I think as Martin was saying earlier, it is always worthwhile. And what I've been really looking forward to and what sustained me through some of these books that I have definitely found more challenging is the thought of this conversation that we're about to have. It was like it's fine, I can get through it because then we're gonna get to discuss it and the discussion is where it can be the fun kicks in.
Well, let's start getting into the details and shall we we're going to follow the order in which the books appear on the Booker Prize website. So that means we're going to begin with the beasting by Paul Murray. the Barnes family is in trouble Oh, Dickies once lucrative car business is going under, but rather than face the music he's spending his days in the woods building an apocalypse proof bunker with a renegade handyman. His wife Imelda, is selling off her jewellery on eBay. While their teenage daughter Cassie, formerly top of her class seems determined to binge drink her way through her final exams. And 12 year old Pj is putting the final touches to his grand plan to run away from home.
It's a family saga set in Ireland just after the 2008 financial crash that reaches further back into the past to uncover personal histories and Buried Secrets. Sara Gill Moulton, reviewing the book for the Irish Times writes Marie is a natural storyteller who knows when to withhold to indulge to surprise He specialises like Dickens in lengthy sagas that are mammoth in scope, generous with detail and backstory, flush with humour and colourful characters all of its steeped in social realism. The audiobook is narrated by Heather O'Sullivan, Barry Fitzgerald, Bo Holland, Kieran O'Brien Lisa Capriccio calm and published by Penguin audio. Here's a clip in
the next town over a man had killed his family. He'd nailed the doors shot so they couldn't get out. The neighbours heard them running through the rooms screaming for mercy. When he had finished, he turned the gun on himself. Everyone was talking about it. About what kind of man could do such a thing about the secrets he must have had rumours swirled about a FERS addiction, hidden files on his computer. Elaine just said she was surprised it didn't happen more often. She thrust her thongs through the belt loops of her jeans and looked down the dreary main street of their town. I mean, she said it's something to do.
The Book of Judges said the characters are unforgettable. They persist with hope and are capable of startling moments of love and generosity, despite their myriad flaws and problems. Phil How did this one strike you?
I thought this one was a romp. It's the biggest it's a doorstop. But it's also page turner. You mentioned the shortlist being fairly downbeat and serious. This one has its moments, there's a violent assault, rape halfway through, which is quite brutal. That is not typical. I think largely This is incredibly successful and incredibly readable. It stuck with me, it was definitely a pleasure to read. And I also think Murray is structurally brilliant. He goes Rashomon us, through each of the four main characters, in very long segments, almost little novellas for each character, and then cycled through again. But halfway through the book, he switches to the second person. He's being very adventurous and creative, while also basically doing social realism that feels like Jonathan Franzen or something. There's also a lot of humour in it. I would say of all the books, Laura, this might be the one to continue with. It's a fun read.
You did compare him to Jonathan Franzen. However,
without all that baggage,
it's over 600 pages long, Martin, how did you find this one? Was it too long for you?
No, not at all. I was looking forward to this one. This was the one that was on my to be read list before I even got to the long list. Loved all Marie Skippy dies is probably one of my favourite books. I agree with pretty much everything Phil said there. I think the use of perspective switching here is done not just for the fun of it. It's done with real purpose. You're so on edge is full of cliffhangers. The best character I think in here is the 12 year old boy PJ, who is it's so in Murray's wheelhouse from Skippy dies, which is also about young children. He writes them so well. And his section ends on such a cliffhanger that you then have about half the book, I think before you actually get back to find out what's happening to him. And it's painful in a brilliant way. I really do love that aspect of it. Like Phil said, it's the one book that feels like it's a bit of light relief. It's amazing to say given that it does have such dark themes in there it has the incident that Phil mentioned. And it also has this really interestingly evoked looming spectre of the climate crisis. There's a lot of things that people are ignoring. Usually, it's the communication with their own family. But the biggest thing that is off people's agenda, because they're too busy dealing with their own problems is the climate crisis and bringing it back again, the one person that goes against that is PJ the 12 year old who is in the process of discovering the world and fascinated and loving the wonder of everything that he discovers but at the same time, hang on a minute, something's wrong here. There's something that really shouldn't be going on. Can we not be talking about this a little bit more? And I thought that aspect of it was fascinating as well. I loved it. It's one that I wasn't quite as enthusiastic about first time around, largely because I had issues with the ending but I've really come on board with this.
I mean, this is the book I I bumped into a friend in the street, who had also been reading this. And we stood there for five minutes, both of us tumbling over each other trying to say what we thought was amazing about it. And then she said, but the ending and threw up her hands. And I was like, yes, what happened? Now, we're not going to spoil the ending. I don't want to tell you what happens in the end. But it builds to a climax this second half. And the way he writes that final scene, it just fell apart for me. And I felt so disappointed. I really, really was got it. Because I had been with it all the way. I had turned every page I had lived and breathed these characters that are jumpscares, as you say, there are highs or lows. You're so invested in them. That Dickens reference, I think is absolutely there and anyone's read even Copperhead where the whole thing about very direct taking on a Dickens style of storytelling that all felt to me like this is all the peace with that. It's all drama, isn't it? It's very eventful, and that keeps you turning the pages. But what I loved and admired so much, was the way that there are some very serious themes woven in here that I thought he tackled absolutely beautifully, and particularly on climate change. Where I felt like that is something that I definitely recognise in myself a tendency to shy away from I don't really want to read about that when I'm reading fiction, which is to me a place I'd go to switch off the world for a bit. And I thought it was absolutely brilliant, the way that he really made me think about it, he gave me some new ideas. And ultimately, what he's arguing through this novel and through these characters is that we cannot turn away and we can't retreat into individualism. It is only through recognising that this is a shared crisis, and that it affects everybody in the same way and coming together, that we have any hope of solving this problem. And I found that a really important message and I was so pleased that he'd got me to that point of self knowledge at the end because you learn along with these characters as you go so I thought it was an extraordinary book and I just don't know how much it matters that the ending fell apart.
The more I thought about the ending, he ratchets up with all of the four main characters but lots of other incidental characters converging on this ending and to me it was absolutely perfect. Did not ever but it really stuck to landing more than I thought it was great. Wow discuss on a different type.
I heard someone the other day describe it as almost Thomas Hardy esque melodrama, the ending the ludicrous convergence of coincidences like something out far from madding crowd or something. And that made something clicked for me. It made me go Oh, actually, I kind of see this. I used to love Hardy when I was younger and there's a degree of preposterousness in there. There's a degree of melodrama and I think that's why this books a little bit more fun than some of the others in there. If I was with you at the time, Kay, I was just like, What is this but I feel like that's happened. I've reconciled myself to
what I did think was oh, good book club book because you know that provokes discussion. Well,
I am intrigued, but we've got to keep you guys ratchet and along. We are going to turn to profit song by another Irish writer. And another poll. This time, it's Paul Lynch. On a dark wet evening in Dublin scientist and mother of four Irish stack answers her front door to find the GNS bee on her doorstep. Two officers from Ireland's newly formed secret police want to speak with her husband. Things are falling apart. Ireland is in the grip of a government that is taking a turn towards tyranny. Eilish finds herself caught within the nightmare logic of a collapsing society, assailed by unpredictable forces beyond her control and forced to do whatever it takes to keep her family together. The audio book is narrated by Jerry O'Brien and published by Belinda audio. Here's a clip.
The night has come and she has not heard the knocking, standing at the window looking out onto the garden. How the dark gathers without sound, the cherry trees that gathers the last of the leaves and the leaves do not resist the dark but except the dark and whisper tired now, the day almost behind her. All that still has to be done before bed and the children settled in the living room. This feeling of rest for a moment by the glass, watching the darkening garden and the wish to be at one with this darkness to step outside and lie down with it to lie with the fallen leaves and let the night pass over to wake them with the dawn and rise renewed with the morning come but the knocking. She hears it passed into thought the sharp and sistent wrapping each knock possessed so fully at the knocker she begins to frown. Then Bailey to was knocking on the glass door to the kitchen because out to her ma'am. Pointing to the hallway without lifting his eyes from the screen. Irish finds her body moving towards the hole with the baby in her arms. She opens the front door and two men are standing before the porch glass almost faceless in the dark turns on the porch light and the men are known in an instant from how they are stood. The night cold air As aspiring it seems, as she slides open the patio door to suburban quiet, the rain falling almost unspoken onto St. Lawrence street upon the black car parked in front of the house. Now the men seem to carry the feeling of the night. She watches them from within her own protective feeling. The young man on the left is asking if her husband is home. And there is something in the way he looks at her remote yet scrutinising eyes that make it seem as though he is trying to seize hold of something within her. All right, team.
What did you think about this one? Who's gonna start start saying Me? Me?
Yeah, this almost went the other way to the beast thing for me. I struggled with this initially, it's written in very, very long paragraph chapters, a single sentences. I think it's also very dark, obviously, probably the darkest thing on the shortlist. And that's saying something, I guess it's covering this encroachment of fascism and a fascist state in Ireland, but doesn't really give you any context as to where that came from. It's very narrowly focused on Eilish and her family, it's really a family focused novel. And it took me about halfway, I was really struggling to pick this one up and get through it. It's difficult in a lot of ways, you know, not not necessarily a hard read, but not fun to pick up, let's say. And then about halfway through, something clicked in me that that's what it's all about this book. And the style and the focus on Eilish and her family are what make it it's got this real claustrophobic intensity to it becomes this thing that is not just talking about a specific incidents of a takeover of a totalitarian regime. But it's kind of like the impact of all sorts of things like this, wherever they are in the world and focusing it down to that micro familiar level. And I think that that's what makes it ultimately super powerful. But it draws you in at some point, I think when you like Eilish finally start to take note of this war that's actually coming up to her doorstep. There's a lot of the book where I Alicia is just a mother, she's a mother, a wife, a carer for her father, who's developed dementia. And all of these things take precedence, she doesn't have the time to think about what's going on in the political scenery, even though her husband has been taken away and was very active in the union that he was a part of, but partway through the woodlands on her doorstep, and I think at that point, things click into place, and you kind of go yeah, this is super interesting, the impact of war on a very local level in a way that it's seen through this really narrow lens of that single family. And it doesn't really matter what the context is. It's all about what impact it has on this one family. I think it's a tricky buck to talk about. There has definitely been a lot of discussion and controversy around it as well. But I really did come around to it. In the end. I thought the ending is stunning, shocking, heartbreaking. All of those things. It's the darkest book on the shortlist, but it's also one of the most powerful I'd say. I
thought it was technically absolutely flawless. This book, I thought the writing was so fine. He doesn't use punctuation. He doesn't use speech marks. He doesn't use paragraph breaks. And when I was looking to see what people have been saying about it, that's something that seems to have tripped up a lot of people but I didn't find that in any way a problem or a barrier. It reads so smoothly because I think it is written with such skill and I think that really shows I found it almost unbearable to read. And here's why I wanted to read a little bit. So Eilish is trying to get her children ready and get them off to school. This is relatively early in the book, Eilish clicks the child seat into the car and asks Molly to wait with Ben. She steps inside and stands in the hall calling for Bailey turns and sees herself true in the mirror. The pale and rattled face given to the sunken eyes, the eyes asking the question and almost laughing at it mirror a mirror on the wall. For an instant she sees the past held in the open gaze of the mirror, as though the mirror contains all it has seen seeing herself sleepwalking before the glass the mindless comings and goings throughout the years, watching herself ushered the children out to the car. And there they are all ages before her and Mark has lost another shoe. And Molly is refusing to wear a coat. And Larry is asking if they have their school bags, and she sees how happiness hides in the humdrum, how it abides, and the everyday tooing and froing as though happiness were a thing that should not be seen as though it were a note that cannot be heard until it sounds from the past. Seeing her own countless reflections vain and satisfied before the glass while Larry waits impatiently in the car. He is standing in the hall, taking off his raincoat is shouting for his slippers as he slides out of his green boots. And this thing about happiness in the 100 I mean, this is my life. This character, the children, the family life, the domesticity juggling a job. Obviously, my particular situation parallel this very Exactly. But I think that is the thing about this book is that he's taking this nightmare scenario, and bringing it to a situation that we all recognise and inhabit. And it's absolutely terrifying. This idea So with I think, as he said, two or three governments away from some kind of authoritarian regime taking over, and how would we react and how we would do so and, and so this to me was an anxiety dream, come to life. And I really resented it, I have to say, I was absolutely devastated by it. I found it so difficult to read, I will be haunted by it for the rest of my days. I think the question at the end that really stuck with me is Was it worth it? He said in an interview that the inspiration that lay behind it was the two year old boy who died, the refugee was washed up on the Turkish Beach, which shocked the whole of Europe when the picture was published, and really made us all think quite hard about that situation, but at the same time with a sense of helplessness and disquiet. And all of that is embedded in this book. And at the end, I thought, What is the message here? It's so awful. And despairing. I didn't feel like it left me anyway useful. And I think just to go back to the Paul Murray, that was the difference between the two books, was that Paul Murray is also tackling things that seem impossible, and which might make us feel despairing and hopeless. But he was at least offering a possibility for change and hope, in a way that this book is so bleak, and so despairing. And yet I thought it was so good. So I don't know what to do with all these feelings. Phil, how about you?
So? I agree on some of that. I think I agree. He's amazing at writing life in wartime. And particularly, the big theme of the book is how do these civilians go from normal everyday life to where they end up with there's multiple off ramps, which are they don't take and he understand why they don't do that, and why they basically end up and complete crisis. With all that said, I don't think this has anything to say about fascism, because he's such a narrow focus. There's nothing about the context of Ireland or anything else, or modern Western democracies that would enable fascism, you could write that book, he doesn't seem to have written it or have been interested. He's much more interested in refugees or people. And I kept on thinking, as I read this, there's this, I guess it was an ad put out by Save the Children nine years ago, at the height of the Syrian civil war. If you look it up on YouTube, it's was called most shocking second day video. I don't know if any of you remember this. But it was this two minute video, where it shows in one second intervals, the life of this 10 year old girl in London, as she's in the foreground, and then behind her, she's blowing out birthday candles, and then things start to get worse and worse. And there's a war behind or there's a civil war, and then they end up as refugees. And it's a gut punch of a commercial. It's very effective. But I don't think Paul Lynch I'd rather just watch that two minute thing than read this book. I don't think he really is adding anything to the conversation. I
guess that Phil wasn't gonna like it. As soon as Martin said, there's not enough context, I was like, Oh, this book is not fulfilling.
It's a Krita code, but it doesn't offer anything. And yet, I was thinking about Guernica, Picasso's Guernica. I was thinking about art. I was thinking artists must reflect the pain and horror and suffering that there is in the world. It can't just be one dimensional, where they only write about noise happy. Do you know what I mean? I found myself thinking about that and trying to justify it on those terms. I have to say, the one other thing is that there is something that happens to one of the characters in this family that is so horrific. And I was beyond devastated when I got to that part, even though I can't talk about it without crying. And again, it just came to was it justified? Was it worth it? And I wasn't sure about that. I just wasn't sure. There have been other things I've read that have sometimes contain things that I have and truly horrifying thinking of East West Street by Philippe sands. There's something in that just a paragraph, once read, never forgotten. But that book justified me I felt like that's okay. I think it needed to be in there. I wasn't sure about that with this. So I really don't know about this one. I
did really enjoy it. I think it's incredibly powerfully written. But I think there are some challenging questions to be asked about it. It probably doesn't have anything great and fresh to say about fascism. But it does have some interesting things to say about family and the way we make decisions about our lives based on family and connections and relationships. And I think that's maybe why it's striking a chord with a lot of people. There are clearly other reasons that it's alienating a lot of people as well. So I guess it's a good thing. It's good that there are books on here that provoke debate.
My only other I would say about it, and I know we must move on, but he's a man writing from a woman's perspective. And most of the time I thought he did that with great skill and empathy. But I was just a bit puzzled because this woman is a mother of four children. And I was like, where's the PTA? Where are all the parents, friends and connections because I felt like she was very isolated in a way that I wouldn't expect a woman Have children in a school system to be and I just think about my own life and how completely ever present the PCA is and every single interaction I have. It's just like they have something to say about. Anyway. All right.
All right. Switching gears next step is if I survive you from American writer Jonathan Escoffery in 1979, as political violence consumes their native Kingston topper in Sanya flee to Miami, but they soon learn that the welcome in America will be far from warm for Lonnie their youngest son comes of age in a society that regards him with suspicion and confusion. Their eldest son Delano is longing for a better future for his own children is equalled only by his recklessness and trying to secure it. As both brothers navigate the obstacles littered in their path, and unreliable father racism of financial crisis and Hurricane Andrew. They find themselves pitted against one another. Will their rivalry be the thing that finally tears their family apart?
Euodia book is read by Torian rocket and published by fourth estate, here's a clip. It
begins with, what are you hollered from the perimeter of your front yard when you're nine younger, probably, you'll be asked again throughout junior high and high school, then out in the world, in strip clubs and food courts over the phone and at various menial jobs. The askers are expectant, they demand immediate gratification. Their question lifts you slightly off your pre adolescent toes tilting you not just because you don't understand it, but because even if you did understand this question, you wouldn't yet have an answer. Perhaps it starts with what language is your mother speaking? This might be the Genesis not because it comes first. But because at least on this occasion, you have some context for the question when it arrives. You immediately resent this question.
The Booker Prize judges that all of life is here in unflinching detail, the fragility of existence, the American dream, and The Road Not Taken. What did you guys think of this one?
I didn't realise I was reading someone had written about this. And he described it as short stories that really surprised like, oh, wait, I thought it was a novel. And of course, as soon as I'd heard that, I realised each chapter is very self contained, isn't it? I actually had not thought that at all. When I was reading this book, I know is that strange? I think because they felt very connected. And I transitioned very seamlessly from one to the other. And I liked the way that I felt like they were all informing the family backstory of what I thought of as the main character truly. But then, of course, as soon as I knew that, I think I read somewhere that they were published originally in different places. And then here, they're now all been compiled together to make to me felt like a very seamless book. You weren't surprised bill?
No, I mean, I guess I knew going into this, but I felt like it's on the back cover or something interlocking insurance stories. Maybe it wasn't, or I'd read something. I might read something. Short stories. So that was the framework. And that was, you know what it is, but I guess beyond that, there are some of them. I'm thinking in particular of like the cousin and his father with the boat, which do act, I mean, they fill in the rest, and they interlock a bit. But they also very much function as a short story. And I thought this was great. I thought it was doing a lot. I thought this first story, the first chapter, if you will, was one of the best angles on the American caste system, the racial caste system in this country. And it was in a second person, which I usually resent, but I thought it was perfectly chosen. There was a fun story with his father, I only have good things to say about this. I thought it was a very insightful, not just about race, about economic precarity. But main character is homeless for a while. And I thought this was great.
I have to just say that Martin is a very engaged listener, and it's wonderful watching you, Marlon. He's giving a thumbs up. He's looking excited. So Martin,
I just agree with everything Phil saying, basically, I completely rely just on a really minor point there. But that use of the second person is incredibly again, purposeful, which is so rare with these choices. Sometimes someone's gone for that, especially in a collection of short stories, or narratives, switching the novel, and you kind of go, Oh, here's that second person. But here, it starts with him asking that question he's being asked all the time, who are you? What are you? And I think it's there to emphasise his alienation from himself to some extent that he's talking about himself in that distancing second person and it works brilliantly. I also enjoyed a lot of this. I think I read it knowingly as short stories. And in the same way as I was read a short story collection in that there are moments that I loved, including that first section and the cousin section splashdown, which I thought was fantastic, and came out of nowhere and blew me away. And there were other sections that I've just forgotten. I think that didn't really hit me. But overall, I did think there was a lot in there. It's just a novel and I love to read more by him. I got sucked in had recommendations on the cover from personal Everett who wrote the trees, which should have won last year if you ask me a fantastic novel, and from Marlon James, who has a previous book or when I was expecting a lot on the basis of those two recommendations, I don't think it quite delivered on all of those fronts, I think the bits where he delved into Everett territory, the odd jobs section and the section where he becomes the hired Voya for a white couple. I think were intriguing. And some people obviously were very put off by those sections. I was kind of tantalised by them a little bit to the extent that I wish there was a little bit more of that kind of thing, a little bit more of that boundary pushing and transgression that came in those sections and made me think of personal ever, I guess, I think there's a lot to love in here, though. It wouldn't disappoint me at all if this went away. And I'd be quite surprised, I have to say, but I think it's got a lot going on.
It's the unevenness isn't it, I was so delighted by this, I really was pleasantly surprised, I had thought it was going to be really hard going, I actually had to stop with profits on. So I picked this up. And I was really thinking I was going from one thing that was grim and depressing. And so I couldn't have been more relieved and also delighted because there's a warmth to this and playful quality that I just loved. Even though there are some pretty dark themes in here. And it's dealing with some difficult stuff. And yet the voice that author's voice, I watched a video of him. And as soon as I heard him speak, I was like, oh, that's you. There's this warmth to him that I thought came across really beautifully in the writing as a quote on the front, a hurricane of a book, there are no limits to where he will go and patch it. And I thought that's interesting. There's something about patch, it's way of storytelling that I felt like actually that corresponds for me and with something about the way that he's there's just something about the magic about the way he writes that I really liked that story in the centre splashdown, which deals with Julie's cousin, and is in itself, a self contained ARC of this character's life, I thought was absolutely extraordinary. And as you have both said, there were other sections that were also strong. Overall, I felt like it was uneven. And I found myself thinking I can't wait to see what he's going to write next. It feels like there's all this amazing talent and potential there. And I'm not sure this book is the book. But this is the one I felt so pleased to have discovered I don't think I would have picked it up if it hadn't been shortlisted. And is the one I would probably say to people, I You should give this a try. And I also think great book club book.
There's six books, there was three that I was like, Oh, I could keep reading. And this was definitely one of them. The voice felt fresh and intriguing. To your point, Kate, you said there's some dark things in it. I didn't get that far. But there's a humour woven through a humanity that I find really carries me through dark narratives. I struggle with bleak narratives. There's just something that I can't engage with in that level. So good to hear that you guys liked it. And also, as you say, there's something intriguing about an uneven book, right? Yes, it's almost
like you see more clearly the brilliant bits when it's not all brilliant or something like that those
memorable bets in there are so memorable. I mean, it's not so much like tension and release in here because it's not a straightforward narrative. But I do think there is that moment of clarity thing that you're mentioning is absolutely right.
All right, let's turn to Western lane by Chetna Maru, who was born in Kenya and lives in London. 11 year old Gopi has been playing squash since she was old enough to hold a racket. When her mother dies, her father enlists her and a quietly brutal training regimen and the game becomes her world. Slowly she grows apart from her sisters. Her life is reduced to the sport guided by his rhythms, the surf the barley, the drive the shot and its echo. But on the court she's not alone. She is with our PA is with GED, a 13 year old boy with his own formidable talent. She is with the players who have come before her. She is an AW. The audiobook is narrated by Maya Roya and published by Picador. Here's a clip. I
don't know if you've ever stood in the middle of a squash court on the tee and listen to what is going on next door. What I'm thinking of is the sound from the next quarter of a ball hit clean and hard. It's a quick low pistol shot of a sound with a close echo. The Echo, which is the ball striking the wall of the court is louder than the shot itself. This is what I hear when I remember the year after our mother died. And our father had us practising at Western Lane 234 hours a day. It must have been an evening session after school. The first time I noticed it. My legs were so tired. I didn't know if I could keep going. And I was just standing on the tee with my racket head down looking at the sidewall that was smudged with the washed out marks from all the balls that had skimmed its surface. I was supposed to serve and my father would return with the drive and I would volley and my father would drive and I would really aiming always for the red service line on the front wall. My father was standing far back waiting. I knew from his silence that he wasn't going to move fast, and all I could do was serve and volley or disappoint him.
This one is very slim. Yes
of all of them. This is the one I was going to recommend to you, Laura. It's slim and not grim.
In quote, marks on the back, even
though it does begin with this very downbeat, the mother has died, and the family are grieving. The husband is grieving, the children are grieving. And they turn to each other. The Father, I suppose, withdraws within himself, and the three sisters turn to each other. And then gradually there is this sense of this slight tension because of this hard to describe, isn't it? He's not forcing them to play squash they want to play. But why do they want to play? And? And then why is he so keen that they continue? And, and this is tied up with his heritage? Isn't it back in Pakistan? There are these famous squash players? So this brings me to my point about this book, which is how much do you need to know about squash to appreciate it because it really is very much about the game of squash, and the history and heritage that lies behind it? That was really interesting. I was fascinated. But almost that slight question mark I had in my mind is, am I enjoying this so much? Just because I'm learning about something I don't know anything about? Or am I enjoying it? Because it's good on its own terms? I don't know. What do you think Martin
didn't know very much about squash before reading it. And I don't know that was a barrier. To be honest. I agree. I think your last point there, I do think there's an element of just enjoying learning about someone's passion for something particularly about them staying up all night watching VHS videos of those Pakistani squash players, squash itself, I think it's there as a metaphor, a lot of it isn't it really, there's a lot of nice things in there about the echo of the ball, the noise from the next court and the way of practising squash that I think it's called ghosting, or something similar to that, where you play without a ball in order to better learn where to direct your opponent. I think it was that was fascinating, fascinating on the level of learning a little bit about a sport that I knew nothing about, but more so in the ways that it acted as metaphors for the lack of communication that was happening in that family and the way that it was talking about how what goes unsaid is perhaps more interesting and more creative of these kinds of familial bonds than what is said. And there isn't a lot said between this family to put it bluntly, something that shares a little bit with a beasting, I think in that discussion of gaps in communication will be handled very, very differently. It's a nice book. It's an understated book, and there have certainly been some very great understated winners of the Booker Prize. I don't think it fully delivered for me, but I'm super interested to hear what everyone else thought about it.
It's very well written. I think the squash is basically there as we have more sparse fiction to talk about relationships and talk about broader psychology and I know nothing about squash I still don't nothing about squash. I know you hit a ball hard. That's basically the extent of my knowledge. And the book didn't change all that much for me, but I very much enjoyed this. I thought it was like a warm hug. I think she's a great writer, if I will certainly read your next work. This one I don't think has a lot of staying power. It's sort of a nice hazy memory but there was nothing really to wrestle with here.
I finished it and I was a little bit huh. didn't dislike it anyway, quite enjoyed it, but was really surprised that it had found itself on the book shortlist, and then I read this article by Article IV choda in the New York Times, who does someone who does know about squash she wrote at the start of Chetna Murray's polished and discipline debut go be an 11 year old Jane girl, who was just lost her mother stands on a squash court outside London, she isn't playing. Instead, she's listening to the sound of the ball, hitting the wall on the adjacent court. A quick low pistol stop of a sound with a close echo. It's not so much the shot itself that Gopi is hearing, but that echo the empty reverb. The Lonely response, as the balls impact gives the striker a split second to retreat to the other tee, the centre of the court and prepare to counteract her opponent's responding shot. As a former national squash champion and an internationally ranked player I had never considered the power of that echo. Until I read Murray's description. I had never considered how much of the game unfolds in that hollow pop, or how much of my profession dependent on that lonely sound. In many ways this intimate sport is loneliness itself. The beauty of maroons novel lies in that unfolding the narrative shaped as much by what's on the page as what's left unsaid by read that with much interest and after that kind of almost like recast my experience of having read this novel, and I then thought much more highly of it because I thought Wow, it's so subtle and clever what she's done here. You kind of miss it. And yet, I needed that bit of background to see that in it. I didn't see that left to my own devices, which is what makes me slightly doubtful about it.
Okay, next up is this other Eden by American Paul Harding. Inspired by historical events, this other Eden tells the story of Apple Island, an enclave off the coast of the United States, where castaways in flight from society and its judgement have landed and built a
home. In
1972. formerly enslaved Benjamin honey arrives on the island with his Irish wife patients to make a life together. They're more than a century later, the honeys descendants remain alongside an eccentric, diverse band of neighbours. Then comes the intrusion of civilization. Officials determined to cleanse the island. A missionary school teacher selects one light skinned boy to save the rest will succumb to the authorities institutions, or cast themselves on the waters in a new Noah's Ark.
This other Eden is narrated by Eduardo Ballerini and published by Penguin audio. Here's a clip Benjamin
honey, American Bantu EBO born enslaved, freed or flooded 15 Only he ever new ships carpenter aspiring orchardist arrived on the island with his wife patients may Rafferty Galway girl in 1793. He brought his bag of tools, gifts from a grateful Captain he had saved from drowning or plunder from a ship and which he had mutinied and murdered the captain, depending on who said, and a watertight wooden box containing 12 jute pouches. Each pouch held seeds for different variety of Apple. Honey collected the seeds during his years as a field worker. And later as a sailor. He remembered being in an orchard as a child, although not where or when, with his mother, or with a woman whose face over the years had become what he pictured as his mother's. And he remembered the fragrance of the trees and their fruit. The memory became a vision of the garden to which he meant to return. No mystery. It was Eden.
I just fired up the booker ceremony in the corner of my screen there. Well, it's coming from old Billingsgate fish market this Yes. And it's being hosted by Jack Edwards social media star Jack Edwards, who apparently is YouTube's resident librarian I liked. How do you get to be YouTube's resident librarian? Maybe you have to go on YouTube. A lot more than I do. Anyway, I will leave that ticking away in the background. Yes, back to the books. I listen to the audiobook of this other Eden. And I don't know whether that may be I don't know. I love this. I absolutely love this. I fell for this one hook, line and sinker. I thought it was beautifully written. I thought it was so wonderfully evocative. I love the story. I was so fascinated by the characters. I was really interested in sort of real life history behind it. I thought it was a beautifully balanced book, I thought it had lightness and darkness and humour in there. And I love the thread that runs through it about art and artistic creation. And mainly I just really loved being on this island, which I think is what he wants the sense of this community of people who lived on this island. To the outside world, it seemed like they live like animals, but because through the novel, we've seen it through their eyes, and we've shared some of their experiences. It's a beautiful place. And then the tragedy is in that is in the way that this community is basically just ripped asunder by these implacable racist forces that determine that they're not fit to live there, and it's all torn apart. And yet, although that was very sad, it's contained within the novel, I was able to read it and not feel too overly distressed. I just appreciated the way the story had been told. And I was very glad to read it. So this for me was a real surprise and delight, Phil, should we go to unit?
I found this absolutely unreadable? I thought it was
you and nodding as I spoke.
I'm sort of veering between it it's very much not my book, and not for me, and it's bad. What I could not say about this was the language I thought it was so florid and overwritten, and where I veer to, it's bad as I felt like his language. He was just so full of himself and so full of this florid language, in a way that it was almost disrespectful to this history. I thought the characters I thought there were barely any characters. It just felt like the most. I mean, there were there were these biblical totems, and lots of folk populating this island and lots of very racist people on land. I felt like nothing actually took shape, character wise, until there's this anecdote where the boy who's good at painting is taken off the island and lives in this farmhouse and falls in love with Ethan servant. Yeah, that's one narrative in this where I thought, oh, there's actually some flesh and blood living characters in this but for the most part, I would see this author again and run the other direction. Fast. I could not stand how
interesting I could not be more surprised, Walton. How about you? I'm
somewhere in the middle. This was without a doubt the most Booker ish feeling book of the lot was one Let it was, I don't know how I'm defining that again. No,
I agree. It's very Bacary. Yeah,
there was something about it that really struck a chord. This feels very, I think I mentioned worthiness in my description of Booker winners. And sometimes that's great, but sometimes it can be a little bit to a fault. There's a bit of a sense of worthiness and preachiness in here. He studied under Marilyn Robinson, which I think is quite interesting, where he developed an interest in theology, having read home and the Women's Prize run through recently, and maybe enjoyed this slightly more than that, but I see the similarities there. It's very earnest and serious. I did like the writing, I thought it was very well crafted and written
love the storytelling going crazy.
Over the florid stuff, I thought this was quite lush and enjoyable, particularly in the Ethan honey section, maybe that's colouring my view of the rest of the novel. On the book Rich note, I thought that missionary teacher character, Matthew diamond felt like he had fallen out of seven other books or novels. Despite that he was interesting, I found his transparent racism, but missionary zeal, an interesting pivot point in the book, it's a good book, I enjoyed it, it's not my favourite on the list. It's not my least favourite on the list. I just hoped not one of those books that steps in as a winner on the basis of being all of the judges second favourite book, which there definitely have been some noted examples of in the past.
I would also say just in terms of a language, this immediately reminded me of Marilyn Robinson, who I also hate. objectively wrong decision. Everyone in literature says she's a goddess. So I know that I am wrong here. And there's obviously this style of writing that is just not for me. But both Marilyn Robinson and this are well,
I did Gilead for a book club once and I didn't get on with that at all, but I really liked it. Not
wrong, Phil, just subjective. We're all about the subjectivity here. So we're all about I am really intrigued to hear what you guys thought of the next one, a study for obedience by Sarah Bernstein, I should say here, we haven't noted her nationality, which is Canadian,
everybody, which is Canadian, which lives in Scotland, I
think, whatever we claim them all. We claim Canadians who were born here and then moved to Australia, and grew up there and we're like they're Canadian, they can have a Canadian price. A woman moves from the place of our birth to a remote northern country to be housekeeper to a brother whose wife has just left him. Soon after she arrives a series of unfortunate events occur a collective bovine hysteria the death of a you and her nearly Born Lamb, a local dogs phantom pregnancy a potato blight. She notices that the community suspicion about incomers in general seems to be directed particularly in her case. She feels their hostility growing, pressing at the edges of her brother's property inside the house. Although she tends to her brother and his home with the utmost care and attention, ie two begins to fall ill. The audiobook is narrated by Sarah Bernstein herself and published by Grant. Here's a clip.
It was the year the sow eradicated her piglets. It was a swift and menacing time. One of the local dogs was having a phantom pregnancy, things were leaving one place and showing up in another. It was springtime when I arrived in the country and east wind blowing an uncanny wind as it turned out. Certain things began to arise. The pigs came later though not much. And even if I had only recently arrived had no livestock caretaking responsibilities had only been in to look safely on one side of the electric fence. I knew they were right to hold me responsible. But all that as I said came later.
All right, what did you guys think? So this is the one with the dead bird on the cover. Who's starting on this one? Was thought
Do you want to weigh in so much silence
to decide?
They seem very reluctant listener.
What to say about study for obedience. I wrote some notes after I finished this book. Wait probably shouldn't have gone to me first. Now how we got here we go. Yeah, I finished it and I wrote was utterly baffling book. I feel it's like she's speaking a language. I don't understand. There are page citations, which intrigued me at the back. There's a list of references with page references. But when you go back to the pages, it's not in any way clear what the reference is. So even on that one quite mechanical level. I couldn't make sense of it. What I liked I did like this real Shirley Jackson Nish haunting quality. I thought it expressed a mood very well. I was definitely intrigued and invested in this character and I cared about what happened to her even though everything was so weird. Nothing really made much sense. But there's this sort of atmosphere of creeping dread that I recognised and appreciated and I thought she had done well to conjure that. I think if you have read Shirley Jackson, something like the lottery, that very famous short story of hers. This to me, it felt like a little bit of a pale shadow of that, which is unfair, because there's no suggestion that she was intending to reference that in any way. But that's what it reminded me of. And having read that, I felt like this fell a bit flat to me, perhaps that's why I was a bit critical of it. I also think there's a point about halfway through where it could go either way with this character, it could be a really grim, depressing, downbeat end. But actually, she goes for the more positive, this character that is so self effacing, that she wants to disappear, actually, in the end becomes more powerful. And there's something really pleasing and gratifying about that. For me, that was the thing that tipped it over into being something I was a lot more interested in. But at the same time, I felt quite manipulated by that I saw the choice the author had made. And the only other thing I'd say about this character is that thing I've written to the bottom of my notes is, at times, it's a bit more than the Paranoid Android. Are you familiar with the robot character in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. And you know, his whole thing is, here I am brain the size of a planet, and they want me to open a door at some time, just relentless stream of like, just oh, this is just they just want me to do this. And I don't know, it reminded me of a bit of Marvin. Anyway, that was utterly unhelpful, because that really destroyed this atmosphere of creeping dread that she was building that said, I cannot deny that this book has lingered in my thoughts in a way that has surprised me. And I have continued to be intrigued by it in a way that I hadn't expected. So there's that,
Martin, a lot of people seem to love this one. And they all seem to have read it at least three times, which is an interesting one. They certainly have that in common with the book of Judges who will have read this at least three times by this point, probably more given how short it is. I don't know if they have that in common with a lot of everyday readers that that book a price might be hoping to reach with this book. Laura mentioned earlier that she doesn't have the time to finish books she doesn't like I definitely don't have the time to reread books that I'm not sure about the first time around. I agree with everything you said, Really, Kate, the atmosphere is great. I didn't not enjoy reading it. I found it perfectly well written, atmospheric, really dense, elusive in unusual ways beyond my comprehension, very mysterious. There's some good writing on nature and landscape in which I'm not a huge fan of in general, but I think it was done very well in. I guess I've occasionally complained at the book who doesn't push boundaries enough. And this is definitely a challenging, innovative book, which is not a bad thing. But I don't know if it's a book or thing. If this was a win, it would be a major curveball, for sure. Based on what I said at the start, this isn't a book that's going to make people feel smart. It's a book that's going to make a lot of people feel like they don't know what's going on. And it almost feels a little bit willful and a little bit deliberately kind of obfuscatory. I like a challenge as much as the next reader. But I think the storytelling was taking second place here to this rich tapestry of illusions and mystery. And I don't know, I
think this is by far the biggest swing of any of these books. I think she has really tried to do something new. And it's the most adventurous. You mentioned, Shirley Jackson, Kate, the obvious reference to me was we have always lived in the castle, which plot wise is most similar. vibes wise, I kept on thinking of the discomfort of evening, that Dutch book that I found that unreadable. Well, like that this one felt like it's very viscerally unpleasant and the spooky things and the villagers and stuff. Were, I find this the most unpleasant to read. And yeah, it's also the book I did reread. Because I was most curious. I mean, it's sort of the definition of the unreliable narrator, and what she is doing throughout and to what extent you can trust anything she's saying, This protagonist, it's a weird one, I still after two reads, don't know what to make of it. The Guardian review by Chris power hero. One thing we have not mentioned here, is she talks about going to this unnamed northern country where her ancestors were slaughtered and thrown into ditches. And so there's all of these references, some more of it than that to the Holocaust. On the second read, it is really throughout this novel, she's really talking a lot about the Holocaust. But it's very unclear to me how that pairs with the unreliable narrator and what she is seeing exactly, and in this crisp power review in The Guardian, he goes off about the lack of specificity about where this is, and he says it matters which specific history the narrator is referring to, in which descendants she is living among. Without that knowledge, the Holocaust was reduced to a plot point and history to a vibe. And he also says it's an oddly frictionless, even privileged journey into trauma. I think that's pretty harsh, but I just don't know what to make of it. I think we're all slightly puzzled. I could see no argument that this is a masterpiece, but also,
I don't know, it feels to me like a book that because this is quite a writer, heavy jury as well. It felt to me like a book that writers would be really interested in and would really appreciate. The craft of it is very interesting and intriguing. I didn't find it unpleasant to read, which surprises me because that Renville book that you mentioned, I had to stop reading and that's almost unheard of for me, likewise, but I didn't find this unpleasant. And I could imagine reading this one again, I would be very interested to see what I got for it a second time when I wasn't trying to figure out what was happening. Also another one great book club book, I think
Sarah Bernstein won the Giller Prize in Canada for this book. So it was on my radar loosely. It feels like Sarah Bernstein is having a bit of a moment. But she's got this literary cool factor. We'll just have to wait and see if that helps her win at all. Which leads me to the big question before the announcement. which book do you guys each of you want to see win this year as Booker Prize? This is what not predict? Definitely want. But you could also tell me who you predict.
It's tough hate to call it I should say I did a little Instagram poll asked people what they thought. And overwhelmingly people were coming up with the beasting profit song also was a front runner, which surprised me did it or didn't it? Maybe it didn't surprise me. But I feel like the be staying is the one that seemed to me like the most likely because it's got a lot going for it. It's a thumping good read, which I think they'd like knowing as they do that the book they choose is going to be very widely read and by a lot of people who maybe you know, might not read any other books, I think there are people who will just read the book book. And if the only book they read is profit song by Paul Lynch, I worry they'll never pick up another book again. So for that reason, I think maybe I prefer it to be the beasting. I loved this other Eden and I would have said that that was for me. I felt like because I think about the Paul Murray is I did think it was flawed only at the end. But I couldn't get past that ending. I thought this other reason was an impeccable read. But that was before I heard Phil's views. Now I'm like, Oh, absolutely. I was wrong about this. Even I need to have a rethink.
I would be shocked if the beast thing didn't win that just has the feel of this juggernaut. I think it would be a worthy winner. I would also love to see the Jonathan Escoffery. If I survive, you win. I think there was so much great stuff there. And I feel like it has been overlooked in lots of discussions. I would love to see him get a boost.
I'd love to see the beasting win. I don't think there's been anything quite like it that's won the Booker. Correct me if I'm wrong? That's a good
question. Yeah. On that front, and I'm very much interrupting you, Martin. No worries. I read the first 10%. And I was like, this reminds me of the promise by Damon galgut. No,
it didn't remind me it's much more rollicking
and expansive than
the beasting start from the teenage girls perspective as well.
Yeah, Ash surprises me
about this focus on a family and then a tone which was slightly not whimsical, but lights, and we're gonna get into the family drama, and we're going to see it from different perspectives. So that's what I was feeling.
I think it's lighter. And then progress. is
interesting. Seeing last year's winner Shan Khurana tilaka on the screen there and remembering that and how readable that was and thinking about the beasting. And thinking yes, but of course that doesn't help you because different jury, totally different opinions. Yeah, that you can't really go by what won last year.
I'd like to see that win. Just largely because I think Paul Murray deserves his dues. He's a great writer, I've loved reading pretty much everything he's put out. So I think that would be good. It's the most fun I had with this one. Despite it being by far the longest novel, it's easily the most fun, the most multifaceted, I think if the books really taken in totality, while still being that rollicking, good read. I think that's where I've come to, in the end, think at the time actually rated profit song a little higher. I think I mentioned that peak end effect earlier. I think the conclusion of that left me so stung. I took a couple of days to process it. I
really thought profit song was a flawless novel. I couldn't fault it to that and led me to the question. Well, if I say that, if I think that why shouldn't this be the one to win? And I think I was pretty clear about it earlier. But it was that feeling of Yes. But what does it leave you with? What does it give you? And it was not that it wasn't Excellent. But I would want the booker winner to give people something. And I think the beasting does, I think it really does. It makes you think about the way that we're trying to deal with climate change in a new way. And I think that that is helpful. And I think that it's gonna resonate with a lot of people and is brilliant writing as well.
It's time to find out who has won the Booker Prize. Let's see.
Yeah, let's listen to SEO to Wigan Chair of the judges who has just taken the stage reading
for this year's Booker Prize. Transported not only me, but all of the judges back into that realm of the possible As a jury, you're looking for something that startles that shakes you from complacency. Something that you know in your bones is exquisite. With its enormous impact on writers and readers, the Booker Prize insists that books are lives, that the different worlds that they open us to are crucial for a sense of wholeness in our own, we sought a winning novel that would transport us, we sought a winning novel that might speak to the immediate moment, while also possessing the possibility about lasting it. In these troubled times, we sought a novel with a guiding vision, a book to remind us that we are more than ourselves, to remind us of all that is worth saving.
And now,
I am delighted to announce that the winner of the Booker Prize 2023 is profit song by Paul may disappoint you when I
saw the most amazing, but also one of the most depressing books I've ever read. Well,
I've only read the first 10% and it was my least favourite book. So I struggled with this. We're very curious how it came about. Stick, be joyless, and I mean, Kate, you suffered through it. There's no way I would have even if I was on track to read all the books. This one's gonna be controversial.
Just receiving the trophy from last year's winner show hand and a hug. It's a strong winner. I think I didn't know a question. Like you said, Kate, how well it's gonna bear in the commercial market. But ultimately, I'm not sure. I think there is something to take out of it. In the end.
That surprised me, which is shows a vision we're going forward because that's the one thing I felt like it didn't. You know, it really was I felt like it was this how and there wasn't then any sense of the path forward, except perhaps to say, be careful, watch out. Pay attention to what's going on politically. You know, I just
don't think it's seeing those. I don't think you have anything to say about fascism. I think particularly right now it makes sense that appreciating the suffering of others and refugees is a key thing. And this certainly does that it humanises these refugees who are dying and boats in the Mediterranean or being bombed in Gaza. But I'm pretty underwhelmed for that choice.
I think yeah, that's where I was gonna go. I think that what can be taken out of it. It's something to do with empathy. But I do take your point from earlier film that there are perhaps simpler ways of doing that that don't involve transplanting the action to a more relatable in inverted commas. Country. It's a really tricky one. It's so difficult to talk about this book. And I think that's a good thing as well. Right? This is going to provoke ongoing debate and discussion. It's not a straightforward everyone's gonna go home and go loved it. It's not a demon Copperhead from last year and the Women's Prize where I didn't see much dissent about that. Go
and read the beestings if you want something that parallels that
I'm not hugely surprised that they've gone with this. I think the tone of the shortlist oriented in this direction for me, I did think when she started speaking in the intro, though, she was gonna go for study for obedience initially.
Less surprised with this one. I'm happy with it. It's
an extraordinarily powerful book. It is fine writing that I could not fold. And I suppose yeah, in terms of the poker and the sorts of things that I look for, I guess it makes sense. And in a way, I suppose it does feel important that this particular story is rewarded and recognised and perhaps they felt that too, it doesn't
feel like it's been the best shortlist in recent history. But it's been so good listening to all of you in some ways going on a journey with listeners, and I have a good sense of which books I might dip back into and which I will clearly avoid interesting
shortlist interesting winner as ever. The Booker confound breaks and delights us, you know. And I was thinking there's a really nice essays at Smith wrote that just published in the New Yorker about falling out of a window when she was a teenager. And then at the end of this piece, she reflects on her relationship with her own teenage daughter now and what her teenage daughter is going through and having to face with this digital consciousness that is now the norm and lady's own anxieties about how to help her through that and she remembered that for her what has always been a solace and comfort is books and people and both of those These things are still the same as they ever were. And that was the thing that she wanted to remind her daughter about too. And I just thought, Yes, I found these books quite challenging to read. But I have loved this discussion. And I have loved the experience of reading all of them. That's what we want from books. And every year for this, the booker absolutely delivers. And these are books that will change you in some way they will change you. So yeah, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining me.
Thank you for having us.
Thanks a lot. It's been great, really good fun.
Hopefully we can do it all again next year.
Love see. Absolutely.
Thanks, listeners.
That's nearly it for this episode. If you enjoy the show wants to support us, there are a couple of ways you can do that. One freeway, is to share it with your bookish friends, and leave us a review via your podcast app. These really do help other potential listeners to discover our show. Or if you want to dive deeper, you can join us on Patreon. You'll receive my weekly newsletter based around book recommendations. And at the higher tier. You also get occasional extra episodes Plus membership of our book club, which takes place over zoom on the last Sunday of every month. For anyone who can't make the meeting in person. I record the session and make it into a special podcast just for patrons so you'll never miss out. books so far have included monsters by Claire Deidre as well as Claire Keegan's novella so late in the day, and Yogi GasBuddy, North Booker International winter time shelter. We also have a pretty active for the swapping book recommendations. So come and join us. The link to find out more is in the show notes. For everything else, including our complete episode, archive and transcripts. There's our website, the book club review.co.uk. And you can keep up with what we're reading between episodes on Instagram at Book Club Review podcast and we're also on threads. But for now, thanks for listening and happy book club.
