Pop Culture: The Soft Drinks Podcast. What happened to Lilt (and why?) 26 Feb 2024: Otter Voice Meeting Notes

Pop Culture: The Soft Drinks Podcast. What happened to Lilt (and why?) 26 Feb 2024

Kat Brown14min

Kat Brown

00:10

Welcome to pop culture podcast that brings soft drinks to the top of the menu. I'm Kat Brown Arts journalist, author and four years sober and waving silently from behind the glass door in my home school is Helen O'Hara, build journalist, author, and lifelong teetotaler, that actually isn't true. Although the mental image is a delightful one. Helen is getting prepped for going on tour with the Empire podcast. So we're going to have some short episodes for a few weeks to give us time to meet some excellent new people in the world of soft and non alcoholic drinks. And to give you the chance to listen to the episodes we released and to share your tips great drinks with us on Twitter, just search our names or use the hashtag pop culture soft drinks. You can also find pictures of what we've been drinking lately on Instagram where we are pop culture drinks podcast this week, I had a truly revolting cocktail that tasted like the Yankee Candle cup minimal. I also tried Johnny Wilkinsons, kombucha brand number one living drinks, which even my Bucha clothing husband said was pretty good. And it didn't make him want to die like brazen deed and add a can of sparkling water gene to multimedia screening. That film is tremendous fun, and the water of life looks uncannily like blue wicked, which is fortuitous timing given that there is now a 0% version of blue wicked, but seriously, now we can replicate the dodgy sticky, flawed clubbing experiences of the student past with a non alcoholic blue Wk D.

Kat Brown

01:34

Our topic today is one we mentioned back in our trailer. There's one we'd like to find more about. And it's one that we were asked about this week by listener at Skadoosh on Twitter, who said Please discuss the horrific piece of cultural vandalism that is the absorption of lilt into Fanta. She comes she comes to live

Kat Brown

02:04

great food. Yes if you missed it the totally tropical taste of milk it's morphed into Fanta pineapple and grapefruit as of February 2023 Touch the horror of nostalgic people. You could have sworn they were 10 only a moment ago to get the scoop on melt banter and the parent company Coca Cola whose titular drinks we spoke about last week's episode with Chris Hewitt. And that's a lovely episode by the way and well worth listening to. If you haven't already caught up, I spoke to consumer journalist Rob Brown. Rob has his finger on the pulse of food and drink like nobody else. So grab your grapefruits pick up your globally recognised brand pineapples and get ready for a little tale of love. Rob, welcome to pop culture.

Rob Brown

02:46

Thank you, cat.

Kat Brown

02:47

Was this how you saw your week going back down the wormholes of lilt memories and nostalgia.

Rob Brown

02:53

I tried to cast some of those little adverts out of my mind when you look back at some of them. They got sort of more cultural stereotypes and a 70s sitcom. I think

Kat Brown

03:01

I've watched one from the 80s last night and it was entirely made up of white people asking on beaches like like beach Wales, indeed and being served lilts by by people from the area who knows where it was. Yeah, there is something about nostalgia, isn't it? When you actually go back and look at what we're being nostalgic about. You're like, oh, this actually is a brilliant thing that we don't have. Yeah,

Kat Brown

03:26

it's nearly a year well, over a year now, actually, since lilts, was moved over to Fanta that change really seemed to take people by surprise. But surely that this wouldn't have been an overnight decision.

Rob Brown

03:38

I doubt it. If you look at the sales figures, I mean, Lil had been in decline for for several years, I hadn't spent any money on it for a very long time. And of course, it takes a lot of cash to market products and market brands. And we'll pay for that marketing through the premium that these products and carry in supermarkets and in bars and so on. And I think it was calculated by a savvy move really by Coca Cola because they knew there'd be an outpouring of grief and rage on social media about a brand from childhood being scrapped. And it would drive growth in the the product that replaced it. I mean, it's the same product, they've just rebranded it as Fanta, which is the point if you look at the sales figures, in terms of what the industry recalled NPD so new product development vanta grapefruit and pineapple I think it's called now has racked up in the most growth in the past year because it's not a stunning new product. They've just put it under the Fanta trademark now. And they've been investing in Fanta for a long time. So it's kind of lilt piggybacking on on fantas success. So it was quite a clever move really what were the circumstances that led to lilt being absorbed into Fanta beyond sales figures because this feels like something that 90s Kids will remember from Marathon becoming Snickers from Opal Fruits becoming Starburst and that sort of thing. But what what's in play when a company changes about

Kat Brown

04:59

And like that.

Rob Brown

05:00

I think it was part PR stunt really to be honest. And you know, when when marathon became Snickers, we didn't all have our own digital soapboxes to stand on and spout off on about anything we like, they knew that lots of people would make a noise about lilt or, you know, rip lilt and all the rest of it, that would give it press coverage and help market the new product, really. I mean, it's a constant dilemma, I suppose food and drink businesses and businesses in general, really, it's wherever to launch, you know, it takes a lot of money and a lot of time and a lot of very clever marketing to actually get a brand to strike a chord with people. I mean, I'm not clever enough to be able to launch a brand and maintain it and I certainly don't have deep enough pockets to do that. So once you've got a brand that's established, and if you look at Fanta it's worth 300 million pounds in the UK, so 26 biggest grocery brand in the country. It's kind of a no brainer. When you think about when you see lilt is just dead and gone. Really. I mean, it was it was worth a few few million quid, which is a lot of money, of course, but but to a big company like Coke, it's peanuts, so it makes sense to put it under the Fanta umbrella.

Kat Brown

06:08

How did they go about morphing it into Fanta? I thought that it was pretty much an overnight thing. But they seem to have done some quite clever things with the branding before they took it under the Fanta name. As

Rob Brown

06:20

far as I know, it was quite a sort of overnight thing really, it was, as far as they say it's the same product. But it's you know, under the Fanta branding was an announcement from Coca Cola, saying lilt is no more. It's now Fanta grapefruit and pineapple. And you know, they just sat back and watched Twitter go mad basically, which is which is exactly what they wanted. There was quite a few other players that tried to score points, I felt that there was quite an interesting campaign by Causton press on social media about them launching their own sort of tropical flavoured sparkling drink. I don't think they actually fired it up. But I think that put them under the noses of people on social media a bit more. So there was there was a lot of fun had I think by by certain brands.

Kat Brown

07:03

Aldi who quite rightly has a reputation for doing the best own brand versions of everything from skincare to drinks has recently launched, tropical blast zero, which has extremely familiar colour palettes and its branding. And I've been seeing some taste tests on social which sort of looks like somewhere that I might go just to do my own taste,

Rob Brown

07:25

really saying, yeah, pretty

Kat Brown

07:28

strong, actually. The thing is, is that lots of the pieces that I remember reading at the time when people go, I haven't drunk lilt Since approximately 1997 I can't really remember what it tastes like, but I'm still absolutely outraged. And that feels very much like the vibe of the taste tests. Now, when people complain about something changing. Is it really about the product? Or is it about something else entirely?

Rob Brown

07:51

I think. Let me choose my words carefully. There's a lot of hyperbole on social media. There's a lot of outrage. But actually, is it really outrage, or is it just somebody sort of harvesting attention for themselves online? Does anyone really care if lilt has now called Fanta, you know, on social, you know, the people on social media that was doesn't just change.org petitions that were struggling? Or three that I have, you know, tried to lobby coke to change it back to lilt. And last time I wrote about it it was about a year ago they've got a few dozen signatures I think hopefully people take the the outrage that you see on social media with a spoonful of sugar really ironically,

Kat Brown

08:33

given that we're not allowed to have sugar in anything during

Rob Brown

08:37

Sparta time

Kat Brown

08:38

maybe that's the catch. You aren't the only Mary Poppins it's on that Yeah. Well

Rob Brown

08:41

as a few K and A Sparta sucralose.

Kat Brown

08:47

That's a catchy thing that Disney was missing last year. Yeah. One last thing and more seriously, really. But I suppose it's an extension of the why can't we have nice things? Obviously, a lot of the changing of names is due to having global uniformity from brands. Like what why is that necessary? Like we had that with Snickers with Starburst, obviously Fanta bringing lilt in but just any anytime that there is a sort of country specific name or appearance that's not going to be long for the world. Why is it important for these fairly massive brands with very good identity and reach to bring everything under one label? I

Rob Brown

09:23

think is basically all boils down to efficiency. These are big global companies. If you're, you're essentially dividing effort to different names means two different packets. Everything you do has to be divided in two. There's still lots of examples of products that are one brand in one country and another in another. So you know, Lay's crisps and in the US is Walker's here is PepsiCo owned it's not much local about Walkers Crisps. I think it probably comes down to efficiency. But also you know, I wouldn't be surprised if we see lilt make a comeback at some point Mars brought back marathon for Uh, you know a limited edition a few years ago. Nostalgia is something that brands are very adept at inspiring in a soul. I suppose that's what the lil renaming capitalised on really that's what that's what sparked the interest at the time where they renamed it because they knew people would remember it from their childhoods. And you know, some people would make a fuss about it really?

Kat Brown

10:21

Well, I think you've just explained social media to us all here.

Rob Brown

10:26

Why would make a jaded curmudgeonly?

Kat Brown

10:29

Oh, no, that's that's that's absolutely my job. Don't worry. I'll look forward to speaking to you again. When the inevitable nostalgic loads come back happens and hopefully with a slightly less offensive advert.

Rob Brown

10:41

It's been fun. Thanks so much.

Kat Brown

10:42

Thank you so much, Rob.

Kat Brown

10:49

Big thanks to Rob Brown, not least for reminding us about the fairly horrific racism running through the lilt adverts of the 80s and 90s. If you fancy diving even deeper, I've put some articles and other resources about lilts rebranding in the Episode Notes. Please do write in if you pick up on tropical blast zero for Aldi this week to on to this week's mailbag and feedback on Chris Hewitt's episode about being T title and hooked on Coke Zero. First up a letter from Sweden real big apologies for my Google translation efforts here but Hesperia, Johan Carlson writes, I think Sweden has a similar drinking culture to UK. And as a guy who has never drank much, hardly any alcohol. It's a relief to hear about your experiences. I never quite fit in because I didn't drink alcohol. Although now that I'm all grown up, no one really cares anymore. Of course. Also, like Chris, I don't drink coffee or tea either, which is a whole other set of problems. Apparently, great podcast, even though I probably won't be able to get all the stuff you're drinking over here. I'll get by with my cherry coke though. Thank you very much. The pressure to be exactly like everyone else is a really boring and uncomfortable one that doesn't seem to have dissipated over the years. So Hurrah for being grown up, and hopefully being able to swerve that a bit as to the drinks that feels like a challenge to me. So if you're listening, you're in Sweden, and you've got some tips on excellent drinks. Drop us a line at pop culture drinks podcast@gmail.com or on Instagram, where we're at pop culture drinks, podcasts, and share your suggestions for Johan. Sarah has also written in about discussion about what Earth coke actually tastes like and says it made me also realise I can't describe the taste of coke beyond cold and brown. To which I would say you've actually just described me. And lastly, we had a really lovely note from Alice who writes, I'm your alcohol free today and your podcast has been a lifesaver to give ideas of what to drink other than Diet Coke. I mean, it's just the most gorgeous message to get Alice congratulations huge congratulations on this milestone that is completely mega and Helen and I are both completely delighted to have helped you find some new drinks to enjoy. If you've got a favourite drink or a menu that you'd like to celebrate, or shame or any burning questions about soft drinks in general or particular, then you can email us pop culture drinks podcast emailed, bumped on Instagram at pop culture drinks podcast, we've also got a lovely storefront@bookshop.org where you can shop our favourite non alcoholic books including books by us and by our guests. Just have a look in the episode description for the link and that helps us to fund the show. Also if you'd like to check out Helens podcast or with Empire, just head to Empire online.com So just follow her on Twitter, but not least because she is an n l o hora. And she's got all the gossip on what's going on with the touring tickets. And that's it for this episode. lovely to have you do consider subscribing or leaving us a lovely review on your podcast provider of choice to help other people find the episode and podcast in general. And in any case, we'll see you back here next week for more soft drinks chat and it's really not going to be long until Helen is back saying keep drinking because God knows we still haven't got another sign off lots of love and have a great week. We've got loads of brilliant things to drink she comes she comes to live with a totally great food he is quite with the team become J's

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