11/29/22 Atlanta Public Safety Training Center Advisory Meeting
8:50PM Dec 12, 2022
Speakers:
Keywords:
trail
sidewalks
trees
area
site
question
sharon
dekalb county
landscape
people
cab
paddocks
atlanta
amy
system
land
walk
species
build
issue
Good evening, everybody. And thank you for taking the time to join this evening. I hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving. Well, we will go ahead and jump in and get started. We have Sharon back with us this evening. So Sharon, if you would, would you conduct a roll call for me?
Sure if I can remember how to do it. Okay. Alison Clark. Patricia call here, no, no please. Okay. And Phillips present. Surely nickels.
Surely may not be here. We had to kind of divide it up. We had meetings that we needed to attend and so we she took one after the other.
I got it. I understand. Jacqueline Rainey here. Thank you. Tori Tapper.
Don't see Tori.
Okay. Thank you. Chief Tyus. President Sean Billingsley President Jerry Beatty Ophelia Lee
Ophelia is here she is the on a phone call. She's the 404 number.
on yet. Okay. Sharon Williams here. lasondra Burks.
I have not seen much on your books either.
Okay. Nicole Murata president. Chief Macklemore.
Chief Macklemore is also not here. Okay.
Dustin, tell us Dustin you here. Yes. Thank you. So we've got six of 18. Present. I think our count I'm sorry. 12 out of 1612 out of 18. Present. So we do have a quorum. Yes. Thank you.
Thank you, Sharon. I appreciate it. You had me for a minute there.
So it's rough. Oh, goodness.
Well, with that, we'll move into the governance section and go ahead and I'll ask for a motion if I could to both adopt the agenda and the minutes as a package deal if anyone's willing to put that for
so moved. Thank you, Sharon. Sorry. Thank you, Dustin.
Without any objection, I'm looking for hands or voices if there's no objection, we will go ahead and move forward. Alright, with no objection, the agenda is approved and the minutes are adopted. And we can jump right on into our agenda for the evening. We have landscaping and design as well as multi use trail planning. I will talk to the development team now so that the presentation can begin
All right, Lauren, you're
taking this evening.
Okay, great. Thank you very much. I'm with HDR and Steve Sanchez, my business partner and long term partner here with HDR it will be presenting today Bob is on another duty.
But
what we would like to cover is as Allison had said, just looking at the the network trail system but then really got kind of diving into the landscape improvements that we're planning on installing and having a fresh look at that for you to to to review. So I'm going to share my screen and give me a minute share. So everybody can see my screen. Yes. Okay. So, pretty much we have our master plan which are very, very familiar with If not much, not hardly anything has changed on this since the last time you saw last month. So just as a refresher, we're still good to go here. But when I talk about the trail network, what I'd like to receive, I can move this ahead. Sorry about that. See? Here we go. So we all know we've seen this slide a while ago, of course, our sights located here. And I just wanted to bring this up as a reminder, as we start looking at the Planning Network of their trail system. Yeah, we're only about three miles away from the Atlanta BeltLine, and we're really touching the South River Trail system. So keeping that in mind, as we go and look at future networking, I wanted to just bring that back into play that there's a lot of connectivity that we can use here that's already in place. So looking at our current master plan, and also looking at the DeKalb County requirements that we're we're looking at right now, in terms of installing is what you see in the red is our perimeter, multi use Trail, which is a requirement by DeKalb. County. So we're still in the process of getting the finer details of that in place, and then your dash brown lines that you can see here are your inner trail networks, which would be a soft trail versus the concrete trail that the cab has requested to put in. But that network system is provided here. And eventually that will go over and have the possibility of definitely touching base to the Michelle Obama Park, as well as another whole network of systems in the the park system over here. So there's a lot of opportunity here, as you know, in terms of trail network system. But before we get into that, I want to step back a minute and start talking about where we were maybe 20 years ago, and I'm gonna let Steve kind of punch in here and start talking about this, because I think it's important to understand where we are with our existing tree canopy. And as we're gonna go and improve it.
Well, thank you, Lauren. So yeah, we wanted to look at the previous context of the site and the history of it as far as where it was with the landscape and and what we were dealing with before we really do a design on any project where you really look at the site, we go across the site, land, truth it and just see what the present conditions are. And starting with, you can see what it was back in 1999, just 22 years ago, it was essentially denuded of all tree canopy with the exception of this central ravine, the central draw that you see, and we have the red line circled around it, which did have some trees at the time and some mature trees and their specimen trees today. Next slide. So 22 years later of it being left fallow. This is essentially what we have, we have young pines in the middle, that's that dark green, you see in the center of the site, that's the upland area. And then the bottom line areas where it's more of a monoculture of of hardwoods, but particularly one box elder dominates, as you would see in an early succession land. Next slide, please. And so from the beginning of the design, we knew where the important part of this tree context was where the real important and specimen trees were. And it was a central ravine surrounding these these ponds out on site. And we did all kinds of design modifications and massaging if you will, on the land to make sure that we preserve the vast majority. In fact, I think there was only one specimen tree that we had to impact but of all that we kept all the specimen trees in this central core because it really is the the highest value landscape on the whole site. Next slide.
And as I say, I'll step in here and this is our tree protection plan. Just an overview of what we had submitted with DeKalb County and the trees that are highlighted our specimen trees and cab counties 30 inches of DBH and above four overstory and 10 inch DBH Rhonda story and we've had this recording you can see the majority of those all within that ravine that Steve had talked about. And one area that you see the three the four there's four red trees here, that will be a further discussion and and what I mean by that is that we have the perimeter walkway that the cab wants to put But in and that would be the area right there that we would have some impact. So as I mentioned before, the red is what the multi use trail to cap County has asked us to put in, and some existing photos of that. And we're still in the process of trying to go through and understand how can we minimize conflicts with the existing utilities and trees. So that path is still in the works. And I know we had talked about with the committee to actually have a chance to go out and walk that together and try to get a feel for that. But I just want to let you know that the four red ones are located and identified due to the fact that we've we're looking at this trail. So I wanted to bring that up to speed.
So speaking of the vegetational zones, and this is in a very broad sense, and the area that's being developed, we have essentially two zones, the upland zone, where you see the very distinct difference of the of the pines, and then the more bottomland species that you see in the ravine. Next slide. So we have some pictures of this area. And you can see some of the present conditions in the lower right, you see the young pines and some of the erosion that's occurred on site, upper left, you see in certain area kudzu has taken over. And of course, that's going to be all removed in the in development. On the upper right, you see a mixture as we get into that floodplain area of some of those box elders and mixed in there are a number of invasive species, as you will find in an urban context. And this includes Tree of Heaven, I'd say, Mimosa and Bradford pear were the three most dominant invasive trees that we found across society. And that lower left just shows you kind of the edge of the larger forested area and the difference between the two. Next, please. And then the bottom land, you'll see it's almost a complete monoculture of Box Elder, which is an early succession bottomland species. There are a few Well, as we said that the specimen trees, mainly water oaks and a few other oak species, but it's for the most part, it was a monoculture of these box elders. So you know, two of the goals that we have in this landscape is number one, really make sure we remove all invasive species in the areas that are being developed. And number two, we really wanted to create more diversity out here with a native palette, a native palette that's appropriate for this area. And we have several reference sites that we use across the metro area that we pick our species from and use as a guide as we do a proposed landscape. So now let's go into this proposal landscape improvements and talk a little bit on some of the details that we have in this next slide, please. So as I said, we're going to have almost an exclusive native palette, there will be some exceptions, ground plane is very hard to do with natives, because we just don't have a lot of good native ground covers, but almost all of the trees and shrubs are going to be of nope, sorry. Let's go back. Yeah, sorry. One more. Yeah, there we go. Alright, so it's, it's, you know, we get everything from a native palette, we get diversity of an ecosystem, therefore, you're going to get a diversity of wildlife. And you're also going to get aesthetics, we never give up on aesthetics. And especially with native plants. There's a lot out there from fall color to summer flowers and evergreen foliage. So we're looking at all of these aspects. But we know that a healthy environment begins with a healthy native palette. And we were kind of setting the precedent here, we want to do this across the entire site as far as getting more native diversity, getting rid of the invasive species, and getting it back in balance to what it would be if we had never come to this land and left it in its original natural state, next place. So we're going to focus in on the detailed areas of the design, because that's where we have most of the diversity and most of the kind of pedestrian scale, if you will. Next slide, please. And one of the aspects that we're doing on this project is we're really breaking up the detention into smaller bio detention facilities so that each one of these can handle a smaller amount of water. And we can infiltrate it, the vast majority of it into the landscape into the ground and help feed these natural Creek systems that are all around us. So these body attentions are going to be seeded with Southern retention basin species. Next slide, which includes many attractive forbs. And of course, a lot of good native grasses that can all take regular inundation. Next please. This kind of focuses in more on that detail, the main area where we have the leadership building the academic building, and you will see as we go through and look at the this perspective that gives you a feel for the canopy trees we're putting in. So some of the Sustainable aspects that we're trying to do his we're trying to recreate a good solid canopy. We're trying to get biodiversity by having a number of different species, we're using native species. So we're going to just use irrigation to get plants established and then hopefully take everything off of any irrigation. And, and in so doing, we're really working with nature then working against it. Next place. Getting into some of the detail species that we're using, we're using a lot of several different species of oaks. Other canopy trees include black, we're going to get some evergreen out of American Holly sweetbay, Magnolia, flowering trees, we're very proud of the fact that we've actually introduced some selections of trees that are going to go on this site, like the Georgia, Georgia oak was not in the trade, and we wanted to get it in the trade. So we took acorns actually from Stone Mountain, and actually found better more improved and aesthetics species and some of those species will actually go on this site. So now we have Georgia oak in the landscape palette, and we're certainly going to use it on this site. Next place. Other canopy trees include cherry bark of Princeton, American Elm, wood, or hickory and tulip poplar, and then understory tree. A good understory tree is our Native American hornbeam. Next place, we're going to do the same thing in the in the ground plane for the shrubs and the grasses use mostly native species, you can see they're just as aesthetic as non natives. And in fact, I think more so. And yet they feed the natural environment, they feed the pollinators they would and they have a fruit that feed the birds and then the insects that eat these native plants also are the protein food for the birds. So it really is restoring an ecosystem, not just restoring a landscape. Next, please.
So thanks, Dave, the one thing that we're working on and Tony, you're you're you'll probably have some things to say here is that next time we want to we want to start getting into the stables and give you a little more update on how that's planned out. But right now, the existing conditions at the stables, some of the images that you see here, which are roughly about six acres total for the whole facility, but by the time they've had to dedicated paddocks, which you can see in this aerial, which is about three acres to have their horses, they have an arena there that that needs improvement in terms of footing, it floods often. And then their paddocks right now are underneath the high tension wires. And so we want to improve upon that. And what we're planning on looking at and dedicating this, the stable area is off of key road. And as we know, the two historic buildings are all going to stay. We've dedicated five paddock areas and there's roughly about eight acres now that will provide pasture for the for the horses. And you can see the Georgia Power easement here, which is going to be cleared anyway. So we're taking advantage of that where we don't have to clear and that can still have some paddock space. So that's kind of the work that we're working on next, for next meeting. And this is the latest rendering of the stables. And I'll open that up to Tony if he has anything further to say. But is eventually looking at 4040 different stalls for horses, Tony. Yeah, thanks.
I appreciate it, Lauren. So I think the important thing to state about your stop and talk about the paddocks is that the existing conditions didn't lead us into a advantageous environment for their horses, they have a lot those that are not do not play friendly together. So the the design of the five paddocks works really well for them as well as we'll have a lot of diversity to just the ground plane in the paddock. Some will be flatter than others, some will be tree covered and will offer shade to others. So I think this was just kind of a teaser for next month. So stay tuned, we'll have some additional updates. And we'd like to you know, from here on we'll be slowly presenting little bits and pieces here and there. But this is the basic of using the existing historic structures and cleaning them up as potential entry clean them up eventually as using them as a gateway into the project and you know, having this as something you'll be able to see from key road. Thank you. Yeah,
so I'm gonna end on this slide and that. If there's any questions on our presentation, please, you know, ask and we'll be happy to answer.
Thank you, Steve, Warren and Tony, for that presentation and all of the information provided, I see and hand is raised. So I will toss to Anna. And if anyone else has questions, please raise your hand as well. Matter of fact, I see Amy. So Amy, as soon as Anne finishes, the floor will be yours.
Thank you, Lauren. And, Steve, I just have one question. Recently, we've been noticing deer trying to cross a woman Avenue coming out of the homes, the yard of some of the people in the impacted area. And friend told me she almost hit one on he wrote the other night, and she decided to just let them in the road. How are we impacting their natural habitat, with the landscaping and the vegetation that you're planning to retain? And to add? Will they still be able to survive? And how are we going to keep them from now invading into the residential areas, because that's what's beginning to happen, especially with that trail that's being developed behind the old Walmart shopping center. And then the ones that are being apartments and all that have got to be built. And that trail behind the Oh, Family Dollar and Papa John's. So there's a lot of invasion going on right now. Don't know where all the deer coming from, but we're at the beginning to walk around in the neighborhood.
So your question is, how do we maintain the balance of a healthy deer population yet? Not so many that we hit him with our cars? Exactly? Well, I wish I had the answer to that. It's, well, first of all, this environment will not deterred deer, for sure. And I think what they use is the corridor of entrenchment Creek, which is always going to be a natural area. And so you're always going to have them use that as a corridor to wherever they're going. They prefer mostly edge vegetation. And we're going to have at Woodland edge vegetation, because we're gonna have woodland edges. So in an urban situation, it's just difficult. It's difficult to we're not going to do anything to encourage them, but just the fact that there's a natural wooded quarter there, they're going to be around.
Hey, Steve, if I could just just for clarity, if I haven't, if I'm hearing and question correctly, it's more about how do we not displace them from the site versus control the population of deer? Right?
Well, I say I don't think we're going to displace them, because it's always going to be that large natural area along a creek, which is going to be a you know, free rein corridor for any wildlife for sure.
Yeah, all of that is untouched. So
and part of the trick is, is also in using the plant material. They they're going to eat the plant material we plant. So again, it's a matter of just seeing what happens and seeing if it's an overpopulation or if it's a balanced population. Right. Thank you, Amy. The
floor is yours. Hi, thanks for your presentation.
I just wanted to go back and revisit what the subject that you started with being the trails along key road, I wasn't real clear on on what was what that was about, and how, what the issues are there. Because I know a lot of the residents around here if that's if those roadsides are going to be developed, a lot of the residents would really prefer some sidewalks or some kind of, you know, walking allowance because a lot of people walk their dogs down there and stuff like that, though. Can you just kind of revisit that that issue and clarify it a little bit.
Right. DeKalb County is looking at a sidewalk in the areas of the red there they're asking us to install and it is a 10 foot concrete multi use trail is what we're looking at At, and I'm showing it on the perimeter and the actual specifics of how that's going to lay on the land. And it's something that we need to walk in, make sure that, you know, we can get that in there with the minimal impact that we can. And as you know, key road has slopes. It's got, you know, some large trees on the edge. So, again, it's a work in progress, progress, but we've got to kind of look at that together as a group. Okay, so it's a requirement.
Great, thanks. So if I'm understanding you, there are going to be sidewalks there. It's just a matter of how do we do that? Yep. Exactly. Great. Thank you. You're welcome.
And then if I could just add one note to that. So Amy, if you remember that sidewalk thing, and actually, again, all sort of works out because when we first had the conversation as a CSAC, installing the the sidewalks along key row was definitely one of the things that we heard the group Express. So that again, you don't have to walk into traffic. I think the challenge that, again, as Lauren is trying to say is that what we were what we're trying to balance is, of course, having to remove any of those specimen trees. And so the issue that we run into is when we install those sidewalks, there are I think it was three Loring, if I'm correct, three trees that will be now impacted because of the sidewalks, they're long key roads. So again, we're just again, obviously sharing it to share with you a place in which we're in to try to make sure that we are being conscious of the environment, also putting in the sidewalks and everything in which everybody wants. Okay, thanks for the clarification. Welcome.
Thank you, Sharon, the floor is yours. And then following Sharon, I see Hollis Turner,
thank you for this presentation. I think you guys are really hearing a lot of our concerns around the environment. So thank you for that. I do want to follow up on the the multi use of trails on key road. So in addition to having sidewalks, and I can see you guys are trying to balance that with the four trees. At one point, we had talked about security cameras, as add an option as well.
Absolutely, that's definitely one thing we have committed to sharing. And we have already been working, obviously with APD every day, and the on the security aspect of this, to develop out all of the security planning for the site. And so as part of again, the work that we're doing with the police department, and then the entire development and consulting team, they have started the work to also do the development for the whole security planning. But yes, 100% that's in there.
Okay, so and then the other thing I just want to follow up with, again, on the four trees, that if someone is just doing a tree count, we know that trees are going to be taken out and a lot of them, you know, not indigenous to the area. So it's going to be a good thing. But net net? Are we doing just kind of a tree count of the trees that started whether good or bad? And then, you know, if we're taking out four trees in one area, we're going to plan for more trees someplace else.
Right, right. I don't have the specific number involved, but we are meeting all the requirements of the cap.
Okay, and is there a chance that we're exceeding any of those requirements? Because there's concern by some people, you know, in our community that some of the standards may not be high enough, and, and they're excited about the trees? So is there some way we can present some kind of net net number? Sure, we can, we can do that. Okay. I would just like to be on that. Okay. And the only thing I would just want to comment on is add comments about deer. So I've been 11 years and we've got deer, I've had deer in my backyard all 11 years. And some of them look extremely healthy, probably because I bent up to the wetland, but, and we've got a number of deer throughout the community and some of them eating, you know, our plants and things like that. But it's part of the balance of living in nature. And I think people who live out here understand that. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you for that. Sharon Hollis.
Yeah. Lauren, you mentioned unless I misunderstood that you were looking to we were looking to have another walkthrough of the territory by us. If I understood that correctly. When When did you plan on that happening?
You know, I think that we've got to collaborate in terms of when that's going to be with with martial and you know how this this multi use trail is going to lay out so I don't have an answer for that yet. Okay.
And I would just say that as we continue to build out the again land for the trailing system and all that good stuff. And we have been, obviously having tough conversations on our side. And some other folks have really agreed to step up and to help the you guys as well as the ATF to sort of envision what all of that stuff looks like and to help us sort of build out that planning process. And it will be totally ongoing. And so we will definitely find a time in which we all get together and focus on that. Okay.
It just would be a lot easier to fathom everything, because I'm not an architect. And I can understand some of these, but I saw the plants that were just so beautiful. And I like to see some of the progress as we go along. And be easier, a lot easier for me to translate it to, to my people what's actually happening there.
Yeah, I'm right there with you. And I think and Steve, when once you guys get to the landscaping, like plan, I know you guys have been to know already what you're doing. But is there a point in which you guys start to grid like on like, an actual map format, like where these actual trees go? And how the plant and everything's are all planted? What does that look like? So we understand the landscape plan? How does the landscape plan? Look?
Yeah, we'll have we'll have planting beds that are outlined in the field, we have identified where they are the count of those where the trees are going to be going. And that was all part of that landscape improvements package. So what's really exciting for me, and sometimes it, you know, to bring somebody out on site is when the planting or even before the planting starts, you get a feel for it and will have stakes in the ground in terms of shrub bed here, tree here. And if that's of an interest, that might be something that could be worked in. Yeah. Okay.
Thank you for that question, Hollis. And just to kind of piggyback on that, I think it would be helpful when we do get out there to be able to visualize. Yes. Jacqueline, I see your hand is raised. Oh, unmute. You're still muted.
And by the way, after everything is planted, we'd be happy to give it a tour of the plantings to anybody that's interested.
Wonderful. Lauren, can you go to the screen where you were showing the horses with the high power lines up over them? And you were saying Georgia car may have to remove those? It was near the stables? Yes. Well, are they going to be replacing those are? Do you all plan to have all of them powerlines underground?
If I let me correct myself, if I said something incorrectly, the power lines are what I meant to say if I didn't is the horses are now underneath the power lines. The power lines are always going to be there. I mean, we're not changing that. It's the opportunity to get them out from that. And into their new the new paddock. Yeah,
yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. So will will the rest of the areas have underground power lines? Or will they be above ground?
Rest of the development will have underground power lines. The existing power lines in that easement, though, will remain. Yeah. And the picture just to be clear, as well, the picture you're actually looking at, that's their existing location near the zoo. Right. So they currently only have two paddocks and they are currently underneath existing powerlines. So it'd be kind of the same condition but their paddocks won't be fully underneath. It will just be their pasture.
Yeah. Okay. Thank you. No.
Thank you. I Sharon, I see your hand is raised before I circled back to you. I'd like to move to Dustin Hillis.
Hey, good evening sorry a video tonight may have some questions if you could go back to the slide that shows the trail system Okay, so my question here No, no DeKalb County has sidewalk requirements just like the city of Atlanta does however, when the required sidewalk doesn't really make much sense. We're allowed to give no the applicant leeway in moving those sidewalks elsewhere. So I guess the two possible points of concern is if you know we're building to disconnected sidewalks on the south side. And you know, deferred residents as what they want they live in the area but just Presenting the idea of why has it been discussed or contemplated to not build those out and instead of those two required links, to build out the total north side of the sidewalk key roads, so you have one contiguous multi use trail
don't know if Alan's on board, or I think he has negotiations with,
I can also talk a little bit about it. I know we did bring that issue up, eventually, originally in discussions with him. And they were saying that the entire perimeter of our particular parcel needed to need to to have sidewalk or multi use Trail, which we've decided trees and lights. They do not want to train it out for any other locations. And I think that they would, I don't know for sure that they would let us continue beyond our parcel. And I don't know if you had any thoughts or had any discussions outside of that. But I know, we originally talked about is there a possibility, especially down on constitution, where it didn't seem fairly logical? Would sidewalks trees and lights?
Yeah, no, Tony, you're absolutely correct. I mean, based on the transportation department's review, we had to have a multi use sidewalk, everywhere our property is and also we had to have streetlights added. And then we also had to have street trees, either what was the distance is 80 feet? Or? Or is it 50 feet or anyway, so 80 feet so anyway, to summarize RAM that primitive there were our development area. Here, we're gonna have a multi use sidewalk, we're gonna have street trees, and we also have new Georgia Power lighting their council. Remember hills? You're absolutely right, those areas on the south side, you know, they're required and efforts for us to get our land disturbance permit. And if we, we had one time talked about taking some of that footage, and taking that expense and actually moving it inside interior and to the project for more trails for use by the by the community. But that would take a non administrative variance. So thank you for taking, preventing us we had to get voted on through the commission. All right. Well,
it was worth a try. And I guess it's unfortunate. They're not as flexible as the city of Atlanta is. Agree. Yes.
Great question. Councilmember Hillis and I have something to piggyback off of that. But I see that Sharon has her hand raised. So I want to give the floor to her. before I make any comments.
I do want to follow up on Councilman helices comments, because as I'm looking at the map, I'm seeing two little red lines that are disconnected. And it doesn't seem to make sense. I think that's the area he's talking about. And if that's something that needs to be brought to council, if the advisory committee feels strongly and because I just keep looking at the map, and I'm trying to make sense of it. And I know maybe we're going to walk it through, but that doesn't really seem to make much sense, given given the context of the environment. And I think we're trying to make this project make sense. And perhaps we need to explore, you know, what it would take to change that. So that the overall planning would make much more sense, I think we have an obligation to really present some common sense, so that the community could could be favorable about this, because so much work has gone into this. So is this. So I need a clarification. Is this the Atlantic Council needs to rule on this? Or? Or is it that the cab
is to cap the cab and what my recommendation is, is just keep it as required by the ordinance, and go ahead and get our land disturbance permit. And then once we kind of get out in the field and take a look at it, Sharon, then we can say, okay, these are areas that don't make any sense. Yeah. And so let you guys as you know, the committee, which has a, you know, this is something y'all can take a look at, and everybody agrees, then go forward with maybe, you know, Cap County, Andrew Baker, or, or the Planning Commission, or transportation or whatever, and propose that to them and on behalf of the community versus more than on behalf of the developer.
So Alan, I'm tracking what you're saying. And let's just put a pin in this. Marshall. I don't know if you're tracking some of these issues or not, but I'm definitely going to take note of this, I don't want to disturb the land disturbance permit, I hear you. We need to keep things moving. But I think for all of us on the committee to kind of take note of these issues, so that we can really do what's common sounds, because when we do when we do things that don't make sense, a kind of, you know, angers our constituents. Yeah,
it's fair. And one last thing, too. I mean, it's been over a year since we've been meeting and all your, all the committee's comments have been addressed and looked at, you know, the entrance, off constitution versus key road and things like that. So this is just one more part of the design where you guys are looking at making recommendations. And that, like I said, let's get the permit first. And then we can go back and further look at this design. And if you guys want to modify it, or delete it, or take it and put it somewhere else, I think that's something that committee could take forward and go forward with the cap County.
Yeah. And so and I'm really appreciative of how attentive you guys have been, to all the issues that we've raised, you all have been incredibly responsive. All the engineers and consultants. Thank you.
Thank you for that. And just to sort of piggyback off of both councilmember hilus comments, as well as Sharon's comments, when I look at the, those two lines down on the Constitution, road side, in part, I can understand why the requirement is there I, I get it. But I also look at the top side here up by key road, and I'm thinking about the fact that the boulder walk subdivision, we have sidewalks running to a certain point, and then they stop and then now sidewalks will come in from the other side. But they don't connect. And so you know, to see the pieces on the the other side yet you've got the residential piece on the on the on the key road side? I certainly think it's a conversation worth having. And so I hope that this committee would be open to doing so perhaps even at the next meeting, as we kind of delve a little further into this. But I also think we need to, you know, potentially hear a little more from DeKalb. County on what the logic is there. My question relative to the trail system, the the the soft trail system that is outlined here, can you give me kind of a little bit of a better understanding of why soft trail is chosen as the material and what that does, relative to ADA compatibility.
But a lot of the soft trails. There was several response from the committee to have soft trails within the site. So we're trying to be as sensitive as possible. And there are soft trails that if we did, Steve, you did this at Avondale Estates. I think if there is a product that has a binder to it, then yes, we can we can make that Ada compatible. It's more difficult, and it's much more expensive. But a lot of that came from the committee itself.
Yeah, and the advantage of the soft trail is to have it pervious. So running off and causing erosion, right. And it's just it seems to be more appropriate in a really wooded area to have a soft trail versus a hard concrete pad.
And let me add one thing to San Juan Williams, again, believe that the dotted trails that you're showing are the existing trails that are out there right now. And a lot of you guys, Amy and Nicole, if you've been out there walking, you can you can visualize those trails. So they just showed that is existing trails, if you walk through there, walking around the ponds and the dam there, they're, they're in pretty good shape right now.
Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much better understanding. Amy, I see that your hand is up the foreshores
I just wanted to make an additional comment back to the sidewalk issue. The only real reason I can think of that those lower South and sidewalks would be necessary is since they're they've moved the main entrance for you know, walking traffic and people that are going to be utilizing the site for public events and stuff like that. I think those those sidewalks could be important for times like that when there's going to be a lot of people visiting the site at one time. Just something to think about. That's all Thank you.
I see councilmember Hillis Your hand is raised the floor is yours.
Yeah. All the way on the The trail slash sidewalk thing. So where has the main entrance moved to is that the Western? Most of those two non contiguous parts are the eastern most?
Eastern. Okay, gotcha.
Yeah, that was going to, even though I wouldn't get it to the main entrance, given them the last point that was made, you know, I presented the possibility of moving both of those up to the northern and where it currently ends. But then the other possibility looks like there will be about the same would it be moved that eastern most one to that gap in between the other one of those gets you one contiguous 10 foot multi use trail. So just wanted to have that as an option B, if we choose to go that route and ask DeKalb County for a variance or whatnot after we get the initial LDP,
right. Yep, that's good point.
Thank you all for those comments. Are there any additional comments or questions? I see how Stirner the foreshores?
I'm sorry? What are the software's made of? Are they just dirt as flattened out? Or is it gravel or? It's more much? Okay. Just curious.
I think right now, as Allen pointed out your existing trails right through the trail around the pond areas is probably your normal forest. pathway. Okay, thank you, Amy. I'm
just, I'm curious. So you're talking about having mulch trails? Who's gonna maintain those trails? Because over time, I know, trails get worn worn out. And then you know, and become hazardous. So who's going to be responsible for maintaining the trails?
Oh, yep, I can take that one that, Amy. That's definitely again, a consideration which we're having. And so all along, as we have developed a site, we have definitely did it all, in conjunction with the city of Atlanta, the Department of Enterprise and asset management, we've been working through this entire site. So they've been in every single step of the way. And so the maintenance conversation about the entire facility has been something that we have taken into consideration to make sure that things that we do at the site can be maintained in the most easy and efficient way for sure. So it is a thought. And again, as I mentioned earlier, when we talk about the trail portion of this, it is a conversation that we will, as I see CSAC continue to have and again, I mentioned earlier, there are some outside folks, and you know, outside experts that really, you know, specialize in this, and they've built some great, you know, pads and belt lines and things and everything, you know, throughout the city. So I do think it'd be an appropriate time for us to bring them into the conversation to start to help this group vision. What should this really be for the community? And how do we all feel about this? And sort of get us to a consensus on what we are desire for it?
Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking just right offhand. Is this going to be considered an Atlanta city park? Or is this a DeKalb? County Park? Or you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know where the lines draw here. So yeah. Thanks for answering no problem. Thank you. Sean Billingsley.
Yeah, my question is also about the mulch. We're already in a one good hard rain, week of hard rain, the motion stuff is going to wash away and for disabled veterans and is that is to say, well, we won't be able to utilize his walking path. So why don't we just put into money and using like the BeltLine, and just pave it because you're gonna spend more money he was a mulch. It's just my this is my thing. I know, you all don't want to get into it. But why don't we spend the money and do what's right? Because we know Atlanta city government will say they're gonna do this and say, and we'll be five years down the line before we even get to it. It's better to spend the money upfront.
Thanks, John. I and I will say I don't necessarily believe it's a money conversation. As to what happens out this I think it's two things I think It's number one respect for the environment, and which is a lot of the concern in which we've heard. And then I think, too, it also brings back another point about, again, the consensus of this group Keshab. While I hear you totally, I will tell you that when we brought this conversation up previously, and we did have conversation around this, there is a difference of opinion within the committee as to what happens out there with the trail system. So that's why I mentioned that what our goal will be is to try to do a little bit of education for the group, about pros and cons of every, you know, decision, which we could potentially make out there, regarding the trail system, and then sort of bring this group into some sort of consensus as to how we all feel on top of that we can all sort of make a decision about and then totally live with the pros and cons of that decision in which we make collectively. But again, as we mentioned earlier, so don't don't hear the conversation about the trail being mulch has been final. This is something that again, we do have time to sort of figure out obviously, as we get into the construction of buildings and things that'll obviously be first, and then this will be this sort of back end of the project. So we will definitely have this on the plan to come back to a discussion with and we will definitely get us together at a point to make that decision.
Yeah, this is Sharon, I just want to follow up. I know earlier, we had conversations around the Michelle Obama Park, having the whole the entire park being Ada and perhaps the largest ADA park for kids. You know, in the state, I think that something Commissioner Johnson had said. So as we were talking about trails, they would we would look at it kind of holistically. So if the neighborhood park is completely Ada, how to balance that this trail with the entire community need for people who really wanted it a little bit more rustic. And so I think that's something the group, as Marshall had said, when we get when we have to like force rank, what are the most important characteristics that we will be able to look at it a little bit holistically? Yeah, a great.
Absolutely. And I think, you know, part of the challenge has been that, you know, we have two different perspectives on this. And it may be that a portion of the trail system remains a soft trail system, while a portion of the trail system ends up being a paved scenario, especially when we talk about the connection to the Michelle, Michelle Obama park with that Ada playground. That's such a large feature of the park. And so you want to make sure that the very people using the trail system nearest to it have have, you know, a true ability to do so. So perhaps, and I don't know what the timeline looks like for the development team or the APM. But perhaps this is something that we can revisit in the early part of 23. To, you know, one, at least get the education going for this committee and for anyone who's looking to hear a little bit more about it. And then we can go back and weigh in on how we build this out what we want to say, great.
Got it. Totally agree. All right.
Fair enough. Are there any additional questions relative to the development teams presentation today? All right, well, thank you all so much for that presentation. And thank you to each and every one of you for the thoughtful questions, all things that we need to start rounding out. Now cheap ties, it is your turn to be on the hot seat with the security update.
All right. Good evening, everyone. Again, thank you all for having me for more importantly, thank you all for your continued support of the Atlanta Police Department, the men and women of the Atlanta Police Department. Just with everything going on, we know this project would not be possible without you all support. So again, I thank you from Chief shear bomb. We both give you a hearty thanks and happy holidays if we don't see you talk to you any more before then. So just kind of jumping right into an update. We continue to see minor harassment from the same individuals who are targeting workers. So on November 14, we had some at&t workers out there conducting maintenance on that telephone poles that had absolutely nothing to do with the Atlanta Police Department or the building of the the Atlanta Police Department new training facility. But we had individuals emerge from the woods and began throwing Molotov cocktails at them. Fortunately, nobody was injured in that incident. But it's it was just another example of them harassing innocent people out there. We also November the 20th I think neighbors heard a chainsaw out there and a lot explosion. We send a couple of our supervisors out there and that cut down like six trees over The roadway leads into our bomb rains, which caused the power to go out in that area too. So we had to call Georgia Power out there. Fortunately, they were able to come out there work for about two hours removing trees and connecting electricity back to that area. We did go out there on November the 25th, the day before Thanksgiving, we put about 20 officers out in the woods, cleared the woods again, again, we have nobody living out there right now that we identify, we do see them in a woodland every single day, we put up at least one drone, sometimes two drones per day going out there. We do locate heat sensors on some of those, usually it's one or two in the morning. And then afternoon, we may look at a couple of more heat sensors out there. But again, we continue to move forward with our security plan. And we're just confident that we won't have any significant delays because of these anarchist. I'll take any questions you all may have for me at this time.
Thank you for that. Are there any questions? I think I see Sharon's hand raised. Yeah, that from before?
Oh, no, it's new. So let me say there's a few anarchists that you're seeing over and over again. So for these repeat offenders, do we do we build them for the damages? Because the community is incurring a lot of cost?
Yes. So um, once this case come to fruition, and we get into the court system, all of that will factor and that will be you know, criminal damages and financial penalties, that will they will incur as it relates to this.
Thank you. Are there any additional questions?
I will just say, I mean, at the rate that they're cutting down trees, maybe we can save some money on having to do it if they're gonna do it for us.
Let's hope they're invasive species that are cutting down.
Exactly, I
hope so.
That's the concern, are we cutting down trees that actually need to be or would even be cut down as part of this development?
Is that part of the net net number?
I have a quick question. Chief Tyus. When you when you mentioned sending the drone up and seeing that nobody's living on the property, but you get a couple of heat sensors there. Is that specific to the Atlanta property? Or do you see any of what you know what's happening on the decap property if anyone's living on that property or not? Committed direct to the cab. But
no, there's a specific Atlanta issue. However, we are in constant contact with the cap. They are monitoring their side of the of the wetland, we will be doing some joint details here in the near future to shore up that piece over there. Because what happens as you all know is that we simply push them over to the cab side of the house. So we've had robust conversation with our cab neighbors and our state partners. And so in the near future, we will be having a collaborative effort to address those individuals also.
Do Thank you.
Anyone else had any questions for Chief Taurus? All right, looks like that's it. Thank you so much for that presentation. And for the update on on security. No, thank you. Oh, wait, I'm sorry. Amy's hand has gone on. You might not be off the hot seat yet. Hold on.
We're gonna get a question for Amy.
Thank you. I'm here a couple weeks ago, there was what I was told was police training, like in the middle of the night, woke up to hearing gunfire and whatnot, and just was wondering what why that was necessary to do in the middle of the night. And and I mean, I didn't know what was going on until later on. So I was very concerned that I woke up to gunfire. Can you just kind of address that for me?
Sure. Me. So um, there's a neat fun night firing with a specialized unit sometime. I apologize if that message wasn't pushed out. Anytime we're doing like firing in that area. We should be disseminating that information so that you are not woken up in the middle of night by gunfire, but unfortunately, maybe quarterly. Our specialized units go out and they practice night firing or firing with their NVGs or night vision goggles.
Okay, yeah, I think yes. Yeah, go ahead. And
did you get the notification And that went out relative to that. Before it took place. I,
I did not I only found out about what was going on, because Nicole posted something on our neighborhood site.
Yes, she's the one for your community who gets the updates to share out. Okay. And so, in theory, if we're talking about the night of the night training, I didn't see that message go across. But I do want to make mention to you, because it could be a different incident that one of my neighbors reported to me where there was activity at night, that was not Atlanta. And we, you know, the concern in our neighborhood was that they thought it was Atlanta, firing out there. And it was not, in fact, it was some focus on four wheelers and some other activity taking place. So that, yeah, I'm not sure which day it was that that you had this experience, but it may have been the Atlanta training night, which there wasn't a notification for and then it may very well have been the other night where it was not Atlanta.
Yeah, yeah. We I mean, and that's, again, the point that I've brought up before about the notification and making sure we get notified when to expect that kind of activity, because we do have a lot of situations like that where we don't know if it's, if it's training, or if it's people hurting each other. You know, we it's hard to determine a lot of the time.
No, I agree. And again, Allison, if you're not getting the notifications, please let me know. Because I want people to be confident, knowing when we're out there training and when we're not out that training. So you will know when to call 911.
Yeah, absolutely. We've definitely been getting them. And I saw Nicole on there. But at the same token, you know, it just I know, it's all the processes a little bit newer. So to that end, I'm sorry if you guys hear my son calling for me in the background. But no, I definitely did see the notification come out for the night training. So hopefully, we can just make sure that everybody receives it and knows what's what's going on.
Because it is startling. Yeah. All
right. Thanks.
I see. Jacqueline Rainey and then Nicole Morocco.
I'm curious. The abama Park wasn't that heavily wooded? Are these anarchist, bothering the people who are trying to do construction? They're like they are in this area? Or what's going on there? I don't know. I hadn't heard anything about that. Them having disruptions in the park.
They ever having money disruptions over there. I don't know if you saw on the news. They ended up firebombing a truck over there. Maybe a month or so two months, Bill. But yeah, they're dealing with the same issues we're dealing with over on this side of it, which is why we're just going to have to have a concentrated effort and just put all all our resources and just address this issue collaboratively.
Okay. Thank you. Yes, ma'am.
Just to kind of build on that Jacqueline. A portion of the Michelle Obama Park is already cleared and raised it's a street height are actually a little above st height. So you can you can see it really well from Boulder crest road, but then as it slopes down towards the creek. That area is still wooded and then you have the property that DeKalb County used to own that is now Ryan Millsaps property and that is still wooded and you know, it has the former trail there, but the original trailhead, and then it is it is wooded and so there's there's definitely activity in those areas.
Okay. Thank you, Nicole.
Yeah, I was just gonna say for clarification on the notice. I didn't get the email until the ninth and it was done on the morning of the 10th. And, and I have been getting them more regularly since then. But it looks like somebody like included me because like this, the first notice was sent on the first, but then somebody forwarded it on the ninth. And I wasn't on the first one. It was just the boulder walk HOA was on the notice on the first. So I posted as soon as I opened the email, which was later in the day on the ninth. So you know, just I thankfully did get it but making sure that we could get those on the like making sure we're on that list. I think they've corrected it since then. But that was one of the little maybe cause for delay.
Absolutely. And I think that during that time is when after the first and I don't remember exactly which date but that's when I asked that you'd be added to those emails. So of course you didn't get the first one but you did get that one on the ninth and hopefully going forward you'll get the originals as soon as they go out, but if for any reason you have any delay, keep me posted. Keep chief ties posted so we can make sure that that you get those notifications in advance. Yep. Thanks.
Are there any additional questions? All righty now this time for real cheap ties, I do believe you're off the hot seat,
saying goodbye. This time. I'm just signing up all days, everyone.
Thank you. Well, with that we
have covered the entirety of tonight's presentation. I just want to make a quick quick note, we do have our next meeting coming up on December 14, and I am going to send an email following tonight's meeting just to make sure that we are all up to date on everything that's coming our way. And make sure that we're paying attention because we have a pretty robust robust meeting coming forward on December the 14th. With that, if there's nothing else, I will ask to see if we can get a motion to adjourn. So moved. Sharon, can I get a second? Second? Was that u haul us on? No Jack? Okay. I knew I knew that voice. Thank you all and without objection, have a wonderful rest of your evening rest of your week and we will be seeing each other very soon. Thank you very much. Good
