Lead with We: The Business Revolution That Will Save Our Future - Simon Mainwaring

9:23PM Nov 5, 2021

Speakers:

Julie Confer

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Simon Mainwaring

Keywords:

nonprofit

people

world

book

business

simon

community

talking

happen

lead

brands

impact

company

moment

head

partner

create

life

work

feels

Hey, I'm John.

And I'm Becky.

And this is the we are for good podcast.

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more work, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

So let's get started.

Hey, Becky, John, the days here.

I know we've been like counting down this day. We're gonna try to tap down our enthusiasm a little bit. No, we're not we're gonna be

no, we're not. We're like in a dive all in today.

Yeah. So it is our incredible honor. Today, we have one of the foremost leaders really in the for good sector, that's really pushing business to be better, pushing nonprofits to be stronger and to lean into some entrepreneurial mindsets, and just embrace this moment when everybody's looking for purpose. Businesses are all of a sudden showing up caring about purpose, to really harness this moment for the Wii. And this is the guy who put a stake in the ground around this many years ago before it was just the trendy thing to do. And so we're talking to Simon Mannering today. He's the CEO of we first inc. And you've got to check out his podcast, which is incredible. But other than being CEO of we first, which is a strategic consultancy that accelerates growth for impact and purpose driven brands. He's been a member of the steering committee for sustainable brands, the Forbes Business Council, he's a Fellow of the Royal Society of the arts, I could go on and on. He has got his hands really on the pulse of really changing the narrative about the capitalism is no longer just growing. It's finally growing up. And this is our moment that it's no longer about the me, but it's about the Wii, and ushering in this era of sustainable capitalism. And so today, we're here to champion his book, and to really lean into that. And so we're so excited that you're here. Simon, thanks for joining us on the podcast.

Thank you for having me, Jonathan. Becky, pleasure.

Well, hey, you know, catch our audience up, you have had your hand and some of the most incredible brands, you've worked with some of the most, you know, movers and shakers in this industry, would you kind of give us a little glimpse into your story? What made you want to put your, you know, stake in the ground around for purpose of this really unique way?

Yeah, thank you. And great to meet everyone listening online or watching and, you know, it's funny, you said, I got my hands on all these things. I keep getting my hands slapped. So be careful of that. But anyway, right? No, I was a longtime ad guy in Australia, the UK and then all around the US for a while. And I came to the conclusion that my work wasn't fulfilling. I was just, you know, selling things. And I didn't know why I was unsatisfied or unfulfilled. And it was the same time as the global economic meltdown. And I happen to read a speech that Bill Gates gave at the World Economic Forum, where he said the private sector is going to play a bigger role in social change, and government and philanthropy can't do it on their own. And, you know, I think I was looking in hindsight, I was looking for some more meaning in my life. But the catalyst came as sort of a sort of tragic, personal circumstance, right? I was in my house in Los Angeles here. And I went to the kitchen with boxer shorts on and bade hair and I walked down the morning, and there was the answering machine, those five messages. And the first was from my mum, yelling down the phone into the answering machine, because she's trying, she's calling from Australia, and she's trying to reach me in my bedroom, saying, wake up, Simon. next call. Wake up, Simon. Even louder, my sister quite upset on the phone saying wake up. Then my mother yelling again wake up sounding quite upset. And then the last message was Simon dead died. He was calling to say goodbye. Call us when you wake up. I just did I just bomb everybody out that I just totally, like just ruin you know, but that's,

that's what happened. We're in the valley of the story.

There's a peak, there's a peak. But no, you know, that's what happened. And I think those words, wake up, took on a profundity that even she didn't intend my mom. And, you know, I went back and did the eulogy, and all these sorts of things. But it was this coincidence of being professionally unchallenged. And personally destabilize that for the first time in my life, I got out of my own way. I was just a self important guy. At that point. I didn't really care about the future what was going on. But I had worked on Nike, as a creative during those fancy athletes in the Olympics and World Cup, those sorts of things. And you learn how to shape culture and build movements. And then I, my last staff job, I was worldwide creative director on Motorola and launched the razor phone back then, which was, you know, the phone.

You're a girl as of the I am 42. Yes. And if you were a female back in the 90s, you wanted the pink one. So

well. It was a massive effort by Ogilvy, but I was worldwide creative director at that time, and you come away from all of that going, Wait a second, the global economic meltdown is happening. Everything's falling apart. We need people to behave differently, think differently, show up differently, buy differently. Why don't we use these communication tools we have in the marketing advertising storytelling world to better effect and so I wrote the book We first total hidden hope never wanted to write a book didn't know anything about writing a book. My first thing is I went to Barnes and Noble. And I bought eight books on how to write a book proposal. I was highlighting like a university student game. What do you do now? Like it was so tragic, I can't even tell you that the book came out and did well. And then for the last 10 years, we've been working specifically and only with purposeful brands that why they either want to kind of re engineer where they are, connect the dots between what they're doing, or define their purpose in the first place. And we've worked with Tom's and I was the CMO, the interim CFO, and there for a while, Timberland, Virgin Unite, Avery, Dennison, Sony, Traditional Medicinals, vitae, Coco, SAP and just goes on and on. And you know what the benefit of that is a privilege because you get a line of sight as to what works, what doesn't. And you're constantly cross referencing everything. And pretty soon it becomes clear to you what works and what doesn't both in the for profit nonprofit world, because I know a lot of your listeners are in the nonprofit world. And we've worked with, you know, live strong, and then workshops and trainings with the Gates Foundation, and lots of corporate foundations like ConAgra, and Lincoln Financial, so and then a lot of nonprofits. So you put it all together, and it all starts to make sense, it sort of suddenly becomes comes into focus. And it's been really, it's been extraordinary to have a chance to do this sort of work for the last 10 years.

Okay, I have to ask you a question about all of that, because I, I have watched your videos. And I love how casual you say I was the Chief Marketing Officer at Toms. Like, I just I was the lead creative and Motorola. I mean, you're working with the biggest brands in the world, you're creating global community. And I want to know what happened to you inside, like what happened to you personally, when you moved into this for goods sector, and you were seeing yourself, I almost want to say wake up when you started to wake up, and I wanted you to talk about like what that did to you and how that changed your whether it was your mindset, or your outlook, or even just the way you engage with people? I would just I'm just curious to know,

ya know, thank you for asking. I think my response to all I saw going on around in 2007 2008 was, wait a second, this is just unfair. I'm an Australian, we're all maids, you know, there's just something wrong with this picture. So it wasn't rocket science, it was just like, This doesn't seem right. And then oddly enough, you find yourself equipped with some of the strategies and tools for how you could move things in another direction. And that was through my head Korea. And I just sort of it was I'm in that gotta tell you, I was standing in my living room, and listen doors out the side. And I was watching something. And I think it might have been aligned around the inauguration of President Obama for his first term. And I walked outside. And in my head, all I heard the words was, I'm going to write a book. And then about two seconds later, I heard another voice in my head, say, I'm going to write three books. And then that was followed by another word that started with F, which kind of telegraphed kind of like, oh, no, because when that happens to me, I know it's happening. I know what's happening. So except lately is my second book. And at some point, you can't sit on the sidelines, you know, if you know, you have some sort of even starting point, to solve for things that really affect you emotionally. You know, because I'm quite an empathetic person, I don't like to see other people suffer unnecessarily, and so on, then it's a double duty to not only ignore it, but to push those skills aside and not do something about it, I got to be really honest, I've been the cool kid working in London and Charlotte Street and Saatchi and Saatchi in the advertising world. And I'd been the cooler kid working on Nike and winning shiny statues at Khan. And then I've been the important guy on Motorola. And I don't know what it was, but I tried all these different versions of success as prescribed by other people. And I didn't know who I was. And I was a young dad, I cared about my kids, I was mindful of how that changes you. And I wanted, I think I wanted to find some alignment between who I am and what I do on a daily basis. Because when you have that you stop worrying about what anyone else is doing. You're much more effective at what you do, because you're in alignment. And then I think serendipity comes along and says, Hey, now that you're speaking and living your truth, things will fall into place. Because the right people show up the right opportunities, because everything has integrity to it. So there was no planning, no strategy, it was all an accident, and I failed my way forward. And I think you know, I really appreciate your kind words, looking back, it might look like those. There's been success and all those sorts of things, but it feels like day one. It feels like it's a real hustle. It feels like we've got a long way to go. And the only consolation is really there's more good people like us out there who are really going like hell right now. So that's how it feels.

I feel like you had a pandemic moment like a decade before the rest of us With, like just an assessment of life and like what really matters what you want to invest your purpose, and selfishly,

though, selfishly, because you want that for yourself, you want to feel find fulfillment and meaning in your time and you don't talk to a lot of people, I've been lucky enough to speak on stages with some people that are well known and so on. And you get to chat to them afterwards. And invariably, at some point, they've reached a threshold, a point of intolerance in their life where they realize they've got to do something different. And here's if I was to over simplify, the net net of what I've heard in all of these conversations with well known people, is that for a long time in your life, you look for affirmation or fulfillment from others outside in, when a statue get that promotion, God knows what it is that sort of adulation, what I've realized from those people is that fulfillment is an inside out job, not an outside in Job, you fulfill yourself up by what you give to others, because it gives your role your life, your time, your day, your sweat equity, meaning yet most of us either run around, understandably, just trying to pay the bills, or doing something that doesn't align with what we really care about. So if you do get the opportunity to live, breathe, speak your truth, you're already so far ahead of other people who are still struggling with finding that. And then when you do it, the more you lean into it, the more you go, Oh, wow. If I really want to get the most out of life, for me, selfishly, I've got to give as much as I can of myself to others. And I live by that rule. Now. It's so true to me, I know it to be true. But it took me a long time to get there.

I mean, I so identify with that. And I will tell you that. And I've shared this very publicly on the podcast, I mean, it took me having a nervous breakdown, for me to hardwire my brain to say you are not doing the things that are intrinsically hardwired in you, within your heart to do and I love this notion that you're talking about being selfish, but the beautiful way that you just express that feels like it gives everybody permission to embrace that and almost just chase it.

So there's one distinction I would draw, there is selfishness where your success comes at the expense of others. And then there's selfish, I would like to think of it as self hyphen ish, where you're being more true to yourself, you are being self ish in what you do, you are expressing your truth. So and I think that's more in the area of healthy self interest, rather than selfishness at the cost of others. But I think too often, the necessities of life make it really hard for people to have the luxury of doing what they want to do, or they're not compensated sufficiently or whatever else. So it's not as simple as it sounds. But I wouldn't say that I was such a heady, fearful person, until that point, worried about money, worried about the future worried about what I should be doing. And only when there was sort of, you know, the loss of my dad, that I get sufficiently discombobulated that I couldn't retreat to my head for safety, I couldn't write a list and make sense of it. I just had to sit in the suit of not knowing. And at that moment, you know, for one of a better word, the universe comes along and goes, Oh, God, thank God, you're finally showing up. Welcome. Hello, we've been waiting for you a long time. And things started to happen. So who's to say that that's what happened on my

end? Well, I think you're such an evolved and self aware human. So I just love sitting and listening and learning from you. And I can't miss the parallel. And I've not had the chance to read your book yet. So I'm excited with it releasing this week, the lead with we I can't help to miss the parallel, it feels like the business world is going through that same realization actualization that the way that it's been showing up is not gonna work in this new economy. Can you kind of speak to that? What's this revolution? And am I identifying that right?

Yeah, you are. I mean, I draw a couple of distinctions. I wrote the first book, which is about how brands and consumers use social media to build a better world about the shift from me first to we first. And I thought, and this is when 2010 was, you know, Facebook was just happening Arab Spring, Twitter was this new thing that will never go anywhere, what you know. And I thought that if these new tools allowed us to facilitate a dialogue between institutions and citizens, and brands and consumers, then suddenly the other side of the conversation is there, and it could change things and we could do more good. And the other was a bolt on to business as usual. Like, let's keep doing what we're doing, but do more good as it's played out. And as we see in the headlines right now, a lot of the promises social media has been squandered to the advertising dollar, hate speech, polarizing people, all the issues that you know, are being examined right now. So in that time, in that 10 years, everything got worse. Like the first chapter in my old book was the future of profit, His purpose 10 years ago, and here we are, that the problems we're solving for a now exponentially worse in fact, the way I see it for myself aside in terms of the work we do with different brands, like small startups all the way up to big companies is all of these issues, climate, loss of biodiversity, ocean acidification, plastic, you know, social inequities, they're all compounding in the future and hurtling back towards us in the present. And what's coming is this hockey stick of expectation on business, were the luxury of choice as to how far and how fast we change is going to be ripped out of our hands. And COVID has accelerated this. And in the last 18 months, in the last five years, if you drew a line of the dialogue around purposeful business, it's going like this, what's going to happen? Is this going to go vertical? Why? Let's take don't take my word for it, the UN came out last week. And it said that well the week before and said that, with current carbon emission commitments by countries and companies, we are on track for a 2.7 degree rise in temperature around the planet, which is catastrophic, which is their word, catastrophic. At the same time, 56% of young people according to the Lancet, planetary health report out about about a month ago, 56% of young people around the world think humanity is doomed. So what more do we need? I mean, seriously, when are we gonna wake up, we are literally putting ourselves out of business. So lead with we is a whole different proposition, my new book, it's about as opposed to building on through social media, you know, business as usual. It's about a wholesale reimagining and reengineering of business around the idea of leading with weight. What does that mean? Firstly, everyone chooses to lead, we are in this mess together, because of my choices, your choices, the cars, we drove the products we bought. It's that connective tissue between all of those relatively incidental acts that have led us to where we are today. And the only way out of it is if we're all going to use our agency in life to do something about it. Which means I'm going to be mindful about what car I drive way plant based, where do I invest my money? What company do I work for, these are all levers that each of us can pull on a daily basis to make a difference, not just for ourselves, but so that we aggregate it so that the connective tissue between all our actions creates the synergies and the compounding effect that has currently worked against us, but now works for us. So we've got to lead. Secondly, with, you've got to find the widest number of stakeholders that you can work with, not just those places into you, like your employees, your suppliers, your customers, you've got to work with your competitors, you've got to work cross sector, you've got to do pre competitive collaboration, you've got to break out of these self imposed limits in terms of how we're showing up. And then the third element is we we've got to direct those collective efforts to to impact positively the largest number of people on the planet. And the reason I designed it this way, as a messaging guy, as a storytelling guy, so much of the stuff that we do is wonkish be called SDGs ESG. Materiality reports. God knows what it all means employees inside the companies don't know. But what if we just said on every decision we need to make, we just asked ourselves, how can we lead consciously choose to leave with as many people as possible to serve the greatest way, you know, the end the planet? And the book lays out a step by step roadmap for nonprofits, small companies, large companies on how to do that, based on all the work we've done over the last 10 years.

Simon, I feel like you are the Socrates of the moment right now in the social good space.

Oh, I think you said my mind when I said, Simon, you should stick a sock in it, I guess, yeah, that's what

Josh 11 He is giving us life. I mean, I just I think that the way that you have just broken this down, you have made it seem so palatable, you've made it seems so attainable. And I love that you're pointing out these very obvious statistics that tell us this is where we're headed, we can choose to get on board, or we cannot and, and I think the point specifically about the environment, because we're very passionate here about that in our community, is that the you know, the hope that lies there is in this generation of Gen Z, they also believe they have a role to play in it. And now we were seeing universities just ramp up how they had these courses. And they're going to start educating about how we can, you know, attack this problem and pouring into it in the moment. I mean, I give Julie, this heads up all the time, because she's our resident Gen Z or your generation is, is gives me so much hope on Gen X. And I believe that if we can pour into that into you, you just broke it down into three simple ways. And it's all about honestly looking within yourself and saying this has got to be bigger than me. And so I want to know from your perspective, how is nonprofit going to seize this moment because we We all know and everyone listening that has spent two minutes in a nonprofit understands that we have not innovated, we have not embraced risk, we have not embraced big tech or creativity that's in a really, you know, unique and interesting way that we've applied it to our mission, we have not put gasoline on our global communities. And so how do we link arms with each other, and I just want you to tell us, what you see is the gap that we need to shoot and seize this moment, as that bar graph that you're talking about is heading vertical.

Yeah, thank you. This is a little bit of a bugbear of mine. So forgive me if I do a bit of a load here, because you know, I was a pitch doctor for a long time for profits and nonprofits. And I saw a lot of you see a lot of mistakes that are really easy to avoid that make all the difference in the world. Firstly, a level set. This is all about the future of collaborative leadership, we need to lead together. So nonprofits have the boots on the ground, the expertise, or the experience that all of these corporate partners and others need as all stakeholders rally together to collectively solve these issues. So you are not less important. But at the same time, the competition has gone through the roof, because every for profit company, or younger social enterprises now talking about the good they're doing. So it gives a choice for an investor where to put their dollars or whether they feel like a for profit will be more rigorous in the way it goes about getting things done. Here are some mistakes. First thing is, to many nonprofits mistake their cause for their purpose. What do I mean? Oh, what do you do at nonprofit X? Oh, we raise donations for cancer research. What are you doing? Company, you know, nonprofit x, we were an organization that is committed to ending childhood mortality, whatever it might be, just picking things out of your cause is not your purpose. Why? Because two things, you have to have something specific and true and unique of you, rather than just table stakes in the category. And if you say to somebody, Hey, were supporting cancer research or any childhood mortality, you don't give people a reason to invest in you versus somebody else with their donation or their career or anything else, you need to have a specific point of view, for example, Live Strong is not about just cancer research. It's about nurturing cancer survivors and the caretakers, the whole community interest, but that's a specific point of view. So I find that there's a, you know, a chronic lack of specificity. And the cost of that is you spend the precious dollars that you fundraise to fundraise. And then you squander it talking in this very generic broad brush kind of way. Secondly, the way you pitch in the nonprofit world, there's a huge opportunity here for improvement. And let me give you an example. Typically, a nonprofit would say, here's who we are, we've been around since this amount of time, we're really committed to this particular issue, here are the different things that we're doing to execute against that and make an impact. We'd love you to partner with us here are different ways you like you can partner, what would you like to do? Right? They just they tell them about themselves, what they do, why it's meaningful and awesome to join. The experience of the potential donor or corporate partner on the other side of the table is, oh, my God, that's another issue that yes, is really important that I don't have time or money or bandwidth to address. And then they'll say, it's fascinating. Send me the materials. I'll talk to my team internally, and nothing will ever happen. And I've seen it 1000 times and your if anyone's in their nonprofit sectors. And you're like, yeah, we've been through that we hate it. The other thing, yes. Why? The other ways to do it this way, which is you invest the time and getting to know that potential high net worth individual donor, or company and say, here's what this is. And this is I'm talking about a pitch deck here, as well as the talk track to go that pitch deck. Here's what we understand about your company. It's doing this, this, this and this, from what we've seen in the media, and so on, there might be some tensions in and around this area, you know, because of whatever the issue might be, or a sponsor PR crisis or something, something might go on. We also understand that you're trying to reach these demographics on the on these topics that are relevant to your business, and so on. Well, what we do in nonprofit X is we actually reach those demographics that you're talking about and the way we reach and connect to them emotionally, which will build brand reputation, trust, etcetera, etcetera, is by doing X, Y, and Z blah, blah, blah. And if we do that we've seen the business case and the result for how that can really help above. So here are some suggestions for how we might partner to that. But the net result is their experience of you is that you are a solution, timely solution to a problem that's top of mind for them already, rather than another problem. Have them that they don't have time or bandwidth for. But you've got to put the work in upfront, reach inside your pitch deck, pull it inside out and start with them. And then reverse engineer what you offer to be a solution to what they need. And then I'll keep going one more, too many nonprofits, despite the best of intentions, because they do such meaningful work with limited resources. And it's just a practice of the heart. They talk about the work that they're doing in a self directed way. So here at nonprofit X, we've been doing it, I'll give you I'll give you a dramatic example, on a website.

Since 1964, nonprofit X has provided over 500,000 meals, off in after school programs, through their partnership with Feeding America, blah, blah, blah, blah. As opposed to saying, which is all about you, it's all about you. Instead of saying, too many kids go to bed hungry every night. And nonprofit x we believe this has has to stop. That hunger robs them of self esteem, the ability to learn to realize their potential and compromises their lives, not just today, but moving forward. And not just for them, but for future generations. But the answer is a simple, one meal each day conducted at A and that's why we're doing what we're doing. It's not about you. It's about what you're trying to solve for. And so the way we think about it is when you do your nonprofit messaging, you need to be the celebrant, not celebrity of your stakeholder community. It's not about you celebrate your suppliers, your employees, on your donors, the impact you're having. But then you'll create content or communication that they'll listen to and share more readily. So there's three and there's more, but I'll stop there.

Take care. A quick pause from today's episode to thank our sponsor, who happens to be one of our favorite companies to neon one, neon one provides software solutions to growing nonprofits. But they really do so much more than that. They're also incredibly passionate about creating community in the social goods sector. We believe in the power of community. We've seen the greatest philanthropic movements happen when people work together to achieve common goals. Neon one can help you do just that. They created hearing giving connections a community that brings fundraisers together and empowers them to learn from each other's experiences. With weekly checklist and an active Slack community. There's no better way to prepare for your year in success. Want to be a more connected fundraiser, join their community today at NEON one.com backslash we're for good, or follow the link in our show notes.

Once you've unpacked here is a 15 minute I don't know how long that was masterclass that could revolutionize the nonprofit sector, the way that you talk about approaching and partnering with corporations, that alone could revolutionize what we could do for our communities. And I love the challenge that you're throwing out here. I love the Evolve leadership that it's going to take because it is going to take this on bias collaboration that just comes to the table not just about self self preservation, but about really eradicating and taking care of these issues that we're fighting for. So I'm just so leaned in and love this conversation so much.

i You are absolutely right, you have to show up in a very huge human way to your potential partner, not in a transactional way. Which is funny when you think about the nonprofit world. Why would you do that? But you have to be relational rather than transactional. But also, here's the great news. Did that sound punitive in the slightest? Maybe it wasn't meant to be because I'm afraid that we should all be doing it better. But at the same time, a lot of the corporate the best intended corporate partners out there in the world. Absolutely reeling right now, they don't know what they're doing. Yeah. They don't know the complexity and subtleties and nuance and history of, you know, racial and social injustice. They don't know how to create true inclusion, they can probably understand identity, but how do you really make an inclusive culture inside the company and sustain it? They don't know how to they don't have the boots on the ground community experience that is, you know, one and earn trust. At that level. They don't have that. In fact, the opposite is true. If you look at Edelman Trust Barometer report and other things. People don't trust marketing. They don't trust institutions. They don't trust corporations. So they need your credibility in a sense, but you've got to make sure they're doing it authentically. And you got to make sure that you're not you're not doing a deal. You're investing in a partnership to really create impact with transparency and accountability. And I think one of the most powerful things that a nonprofit can do and it has a prospective corporate partner and say, look at the stakes. Right now. Business is on the hook in a way you've never seen before. CEOs are being called out as you know The Dirty Dozen, as we saw recently in a headline in The Guardian, talking about CEOs who are complicit in the climate crisis, like businesses on the hook, and you see, like McKinsey 1500 employees are protesting, who the company is working with, because of their climate role. You see Deloitte, you know, training that 330,000 employees in the climate crisis, all of that is to say, business is on the hook. They've been scrutinized by consumers, employees, and now investors. So if we're going to enter this partner, partnership, and we nonprofit, I got to bring our expertise, our credibility, you know, our line of sight on what really moves the needle in a way that's defensible in public, we've got to know if you mean it, because we can't put ourselves at risk. And we certainly don't want to put you at risk. And then suddenly, you're not copying him. You're fundraising to fundraise, you're saying, Listen, we have an alignment of values. But we want to understand what you care about in your business. And we want to tell you what we care about in terms of impact. And let's see if there's a marriage in the middle, how we work together, what that money looks like, that will take care of itself. But we are vetting the corporate partners that we're working with, because we're doing it for real now. This isn't like 1980s 1990s, whereas optics or whatever else, we're doing it for real, because these timelines were working against the contracting towards us, and things are breaking down. So we want to know if you mean, it's a very different posture.

I'm just so leaned into this. And I think that nonprofits have to realize they have something to offer. You're not going to this table, negotiating anyway. But you're going to the table with with a lot of value, like you're coming to the table with value. So we have to have those conversations meeting in the middle on that. Okay, summit with I'm cracking about to is that you didn't think you had three books in you. And I'm like, you have 20 books? Are you? Are you kidding me? So let's talk about book number two, it's fresh on the scene. Tell us about lead with we I mean, I'm adding it to my cart, if I can try to multitask, which I'm horrible at.

But, you know, you might click 12 copies, not to what

Simon says.

He's never heard that one. Great. Oh, sorry.

Thank you for asking, you know, one of the, when you're lucky enough to be in the engine room of all of these large and small companies and nonprofits, and you start to see what works and what doesn't, you do have a responsibility to share that with others. Because right outside that door, I've got my 19 and 22 year old daughter who told me they're not sure if they're having kids, because they don't bring another person into the world. And I'm like, I've been away, I got grandfather church, what are you talking about? Come on, you're gonna do this. Anyway, the whole point is that, how do we get it done? I think the conversation has moved from the, whether we should do it or not on why we should do it to how we get it done. So what the book does is, it builds beyond what is commonly known as the virtuous cycle, which is do well by doing good to a virtuous spiral, which is how do we all stakeholders in society, from an individual level through to leadership in a nonprofit or company, through your culture, through your community out into society at large, all pull through this print, you know, this new focus on leading with we and I lay out all the examples, the case studies, the research to support it, and a programmatic approach of how you can do it your organization, no matter how large or small it is? And what is it all focused on? It's focused on how we reimagine the way we show up in the world, as nonprofits, as businesses as individuals, to live and work and grow together in ways that restore and protect the natural and social systems on which all of our futures depend. Why? Because brands and nonprofits cannot survive in societies that fail. Why? Because these timelines are contracting towards us. Why? Because it doesn't matter who you are, where you want to go on holidays, what car you drive, things are breaking down right now, on the natural ecosystem level and on the social infrastructure level. And it's going to get worse, it's already baked in that there's going to a lot of things very challenging things are going to happen in the near future. We're trying to diminish that to mitigate it right now. And so if you want to grow your nonprofit, that also do a better job with greater partnerships and collaboration to scale your impact. Do take a look at the book because it it's all the gold that we've got the wheel shoved it right in there. And I mean, by we, I mean the whole we first team has been just amazing over the last 10 years. The other thing that book does is provide a very powerful container for why greater collaboration is necessary in terms of a nonprofit, pitching, talking to a corporate partner. This is not a moment in time where they're going to solve it on their own. They need to work with someone like a nonprofit. And here's the good news. We are not being asked to do something new. We are just remembering what we forgot. Which is, we are just part of one human family. And we need to make sure our community thrives. So business can thrive within it. And to do that, we've got to take care of all stakeholders in our planet. And here's what I see coming. I know a lot of people throw their hands up and say these issues are too big for us to solve for. But I don't think that this is the end of something. I think it is this truly miraculous rebirth, appropriately painful, like with any birth, but appropriately painful rebirth or business, where we're going to start to work with the natural world, instead of stealing from it. And as the natural world responds, it is going to dazzle us with its innate, regenerative and abundant capacity. And we are going to fall in love with the natural world all over again, which, you know, we largely took for granted before, let alone abused. And we're going to say, we're going to suddenly realize that every one of these marketplace challenges is a marketplace opportunity. Like just give me some examples. Think about clean beauty, not the older brands, and now doing clean eating clean food. I mean, if you go to any grocery store, it's like Vegas with all these things, talking about the good thing they're doing sustainable apparel and footwear, and so on. Think about Elon Musk, who 10 years ago took on the auto industry or tried to put him out of business. And now every major automaker is committed to alternative energy vehicles. Like this is a marketplace opportunity. So if you actually as a nonprofit, find those corporate partners that want to walk their talk more authentically, all they're doing is positioning themselves to be on the right side of history, the right side of those market forces that will reward them for doing so they will deepen your partnership. And as these issues get worse, unfortunately, they will increase their commitment to you because they're going to be more and more dependent on what you bring to the table. So it's a double edged sword. It's terrible that we're at this moment in time that necessitates this type of, you know, this momentum behind these partnerships. But at the same time, there's momentum behind these partnerships, you know,

yeah, I mean, gosh, is that key, you can't contain the excitement, you know, hearing you talk and knowing that it's just been confirmed through conversation after conversation. I mean, the moment is now to lean into this. And I love that a corporation just represents people to at the end of the day, it's people talking, right, shocking. I know. And it's like, think about that, why are we not looking at corporations leaning into the amount of people that can be activated and connected with us at a deeper level? It blows my mind. Okay, Simon, we got to start like winding this down. Because the rest of the day, you have been, you know, witness to so much philanthropy in your life through your work, we believe it's transformational. Is there a story that sticks out to you that's really moved you personally that you would share with us?

There's one thing I will share with you that it's not a story. There's two things I'll share with you actually. One is, when I was launching my first book, I had no money, no time, I was exhausted as a freelance ad guy, and using all my energy getting this book out there. And I thought to myself, What am I trying to do with this book about a more sustainable practice of capitalism, because it was coming out in three weeks, and I was like, Oh, my God, I didn't even know I had no marketing budget, what am I going to do? And I reached out to three people to whom I knew and one who I didn't. And at one was a spoken word poet called Sekou Andrews. And I said, I'm trying to get new words in the mouth of business. Can we work together and take the words from the book and turn it into a spoken word piece. And I spoke to an animation company who said they do the animation and music houses said they do the music, and they all did it for free, because they believe what I'm saying. And I had to do that was like one of the very first TEDx talks on the same stage that Steve Jobs did his iPhone presentations. My first public speech ever and I was, I was nervous. I was like apoplectic, Lee nervous. But I, I gave up this last three minutes of my TEDx San Francisco talk at the time, there's like 1500 people from Google and everything else like that. And I was terrified to this video. And it was shared over 40,000 times in the next 24 hours. And that really helped the book do well become a best seller and so on. This point of that story is is when you really commit to what your heart tells you that you need to do and you're the role that you can play, people will show up, and they will show up when they have nothing to gain from you other than enabling that vision of the future that you have. So really believe in the innate goodness of people and lean into that that always, really stayed with me. The other thing is like this year, and I just want to call out Machine Head Troika design and Sekou Andrews, who to this day, I'm forever grateful to, but it was about it's just it's about the quality of people and it was such a visceral experience for me. But then the other thing was, you know, I was honored to be a judge for the sustainable development goals at the Cannes Advertising Festival this year and 2020 didn't happen because of COVID. So all the entries from 2020 and over The entries in 2020 ones like the 700 entries, where you've got to film you've got all the data, all the impact. And you see a snapshot of the entire world from everything global citizen to the UN, to every corporate brand and nonprofit is doing. And I will tell you this, only about 5% of them are addressing the root problem and providing a systemic solution that can scale. The rest, either cause marketing by another name, localized, or just focused on awareness without an actual solution. So if you think it's late, if you think that you don't think there's enough food at the table for you, as a nonprofit, in terms of finding a corporate partner, we haven't even begun to scratch the surface of this work authentically. So I would say to you, you know, be really clear, as I said, at the beginning about your own unique purpose, your distinct point of view on the particular issue that you want to solve for, so that you can share that with those corporate partners, and then create the context for them in which all stakeholders are now scrutinizing business and the nonprofit world that business specifically, in which case, what are those potential benefits of partnering? How can you solve an existing problem they had, in a way that's going to create an authentic relationship that can then scale over time, and scale your impact? That's what

I mean, I cannot believe people are going to get this conversation for free. It is like a master class, and showing up with empathy, leveraging the best of what you have, and what you know, to accelerate mission delivery. And the cobuild piece is absolutely critical. I love the brave new world that we're about to enter. It feels like a moment, if not the moment for a nonprofit, and I just thank you for getting us, you know, headed in the space that points to this is this is actually attainable. You tiny little one nonprofit single person running and doing the chief everything officer, this is possible and attainable for you. So we have to end all of our conversations with this one question that we have, and I cannot wait to hear it from you, Simon, what is your one good thing, it could be a piece of advice or a mantra, what is something you would be willing to simply give our community today as, as counsel wise counsel from you.

For me, I took me a long time to find that alignment between who I am and what I do on a daily basis. I spent all my time running around chasing chasing different versions of success, that ended up making leaving me feel empty or hollow. And I think too often we look external to the outside world for validation is this job, right? Is this title, right? Is this whatever, look inward, turn your gaze inward, and really interrogate who you are, and what is most meaningful to you. And then find something that aligns with that, so that you can have that authenticity and integrity with the way you go about your time. I think, and I'm sure other people do it as well. He's been all your time doing this crazy thing all around the world. Australians do that in all around the world, when really the answer was was inside you all the time. And when you do that, you suddenly realize you are enough. There are other people who care about the same things. They're looking for more people like them. And together, there's nothing you can't do. So look inward, as much as you look out what is what I would say,

Simon, it, would it be too forward if we asked you to adopt us? For

you know what? My wife and I were just saying we should know? Absolutely. You know what, here's the funny thing. We are family, we've all been estranged, you know, we all walk around with a sort of ego driven idea of separateness of individuation. But if there's one thing through all the work and all the research that I've done for the new book, and so on, which included a lot of research with indigenous people and their symbiotic relationship with the natural world, and how they think of community, it's chemically hardwired into our brains, our connection to each other, and to the natural world, we are resisting something that is undeniably true of ourselves. And so I think we all are family. And I think it's it's not about changing or becoming something new. It's just shedding these unhelpful, unproductive and inauthentic kind of barriers we put up between ourselves. And I think when we do that, I don't know we'll have a collective exhale. I think we've all been sort of, especially after COVID, we've been running in the wrong direction for a long time. It's been really hard, then we've had this incredible wake up call. And now we're awake. And the good news is, is that we just have to reach back out to each other and say, This is what I care about. How can we more effectively get this done? By working together? What that looks like will take care of itself. But let's focus on the important things and then it will take on a life of its own. So we are family. The family tree is large and extensive. And I just want to give you guys both so much credit you know i It's like we're pushing a rock up a hill, but there's more rocks on the There's more hands on the rock than ever, right? The old Sisyphus thing weighs pushing the rock up the hill and rolls back down. And every day, there are more people like you and your community and me and my community, it gets easier, and it gets lighter. And we get more validation for showing up in the world this way. And with this younger generation coming through, look out, you know, those who think in the old way are going to be in the minority. So this is our time, we need to go like how long we need to leave with we that's what I would say,

Man, I'm so amped up. Okay, Simon, how can everybody connect with you? How can we connect with me first, how can we get your book point us to all the way? Thank

you? Thank you. I mean, on the book side, you go to lead with wwe.com. And you'll see more information about the book and you can order their lead with wwe.com. Also, you can also go to Amazon, it's up on Amazon. You know, on the company side, if you're interested in the work we do we work with different companies and nonprofits of all sizes, you know, it's we first branding.com. So we first branding.com. And I would ask you one thing, you know, it's not about moving books, it's about getting the message out there for me. So I'd encourage your ask that people think about whoever is in your life is in a position of power influence inside your nonprofit, inside a company, you know, an entrepreneur who started a company and get a copy for them and give it to them. Because instead of you having to convince them of all of this stuff, and instead of you having to think of how is a roadmap for how to do it, it's all in there, all the research all the case studies what you need to follow. And by that simple act, you can capitalize four or five different people moving things in a different direction. And it's like a depth charger in their brain. They think about to go yeah, maybe maybe. And then they're like, oh, yeah, and then they start seeing all the signals around them. And things start to change. So do grab a coffee, but also get coffee, but a coffee. And also just give it to somebody that you think might be open to this sort of a dialogue, because then we can accelerate, you know, our solutions to these challenges. So thank you,

Simon. I mean, you are, I'm just so happy that you are in the world. I am so happy your heart and soul is in the world doing what you're doing. And I just want to thank you for your time today. And I'm going to skip out of this house today, John with just lightness in my heart, and hope that we can do so much more. Yeah,

thank you. Thank you. Thank you for including me, and thanks to everyone listening or watching and there's nothing we can't do and we do it together. Really.

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