Optimising the Sleep Advantage with Devin Burke_Final

10:30AM Aug 16, 2022

Speakers:

Angela Foster

Intro

Devin Burke

Keywords:

sleep

people

creates

sacrificing

high performers

bed

work

important

tracking

body

night

supplements

clients

bit

asleep

depends

question

listening

magnesium

book

People are like, Oh my gosh, I don't have to do anything. It's like this my time. And they're like, Well, I don't want to use my time sleeping. I'd rather use my time watching Netflix or reading or whatever it is that people like to do in their free time. And so there becomes this sleep procrastination, that can. And unfortunately, that's dangerous, because obviously, if you're not prioritising it, you're not going to be getting enough then

Welcome to the high performance health podcast with your host, Angela Foster, the show where we talk about everything you need to break through limits and achieve a high performance, mind, body and lifestyle.

So Devin it is so great to have you on the show today and talk about sleep. I just, we were chatting about there about how I kind of went out to my audience and said, do you have any sleep questions, and there were so many questions in relation to sleep. I think this is a common problem for, for many, many people. But first of all, a very warm welcome to the show.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, excited to have you here. So why don't we start, I know that you help a lot of different people, you also focus on high performers. But I guess a good place to start is you talk a lot in your presentations about how sleep and I say this myself how sleep really is the foundation of high performance. Why is sleep so important? Because it's the first thing many people kind of sacrifice voluntarily or not when they're under pressure?

Yeah, I mean, first and foremost, I mean, we're talking from a high performance standpoint, it affects your cognitive ability. So what's really interesting about sleep is when you don't get it you actually your every aspect of your performance drops from your mental acuity to your creativity, to your emotional stability. And it's oftentimes people don't even realise it. This is where it becomes a bit dangerous. It's sort of like, I like to give the analogy if you're at a party and you see somebody that's, that's drunk, and they're like, Oh, I'm fine to drive. I'm fine to drive, but everyone around them can see hey, no, this person is not fun to drive. That's kind of what happens when we're sleep deprived consistently. And that becomes the new normal. So you're, you know, you You're just your brain doesn't operate at the same capacity when you're sleep deprived. Physically, you know, if you look at athletes, the top athletes in the world, whether it's Roger Federer or LeBron James or any, there's, there's a tonne of them out there, they all focus on sleep, they prioritise it, because physically our bodies don't repair. So your you know, your performance physically decreased, you have less energy, energy, as you know, is the foundation of, you know, creating things of, you know, pushing things forward. So you just don't bring that energy to whatever it is that you're you're trying to accomplish. But it really does affect every important aspect of our life, there's not a there's not a a place in life, that it doesn't affect. That's why it's so important.

I agree, it's critical, I have a kind of shift protocol, I call it like human optimization and sleep is the shift is the essence shift. It's the foundation of it, because I also think it makes everything else you want to do easier as well, I think a lot of people don't realise that, like, if they're trying to make a change in another area of their health or performance, if you're underslept, it's going to make it harder. And if you're well staffed, it's gonna be easier, just to self control point as much as anything else. Right. Yeah,

I mean, it, you know, speaking on that, like willpower, if there's, if you're not getting the sleep, you need, your willpower decreases, then you make bad... It's all, it really comes down to decisions. So when you're mentally fatigued, when you're, you're not at your highest capacity, because you're under slept, because you're tired, you make bad decisions. And those decisions ripple out in your business, in your relationship and in your health. You know, you go for the soda over the water, the hamburger over the salad, because your body is craving energy. It's trying to... Uhh it's looking for that energy, and, and it's... Yeah, I mean, when I actually started to study this, the effects of what happens when you don't sleep, it was extremely alarming to me, because people are driving around pretty much like they're under the influence of alcohol, because that's really how we, that's the impact of consistently not getting enough sleep. And that's, it's a bit alarming, actually, you know, doctors, nurses in the operating room, they're are some of the worst sleepers, and it's not really their fault. It's just the you know, the structure of how the system is, but these people are operating there, you know, they're giving medications and, and they're in a place where... They're not really fully there, because they're under slept because they're not prioritising and protecting sleep, umm, and it's, it's dangerous, really.

It is very dangerous. I think, I think one of the things, actually it came up in a question from my community, that was quite interesting, because I think many people struggle with this, which is how can you get yourself to be compliant with sleep? it's so easy to put it off even not with standing things like, you know, watching Netflix, right? Whether you, whether you're going to do that or not. There's something about that time of day and I always think nothing productive from because I'm not a night owl, I'm an early morning person, nothing. And I think it's different if you are a night owl, right? So maybe you're going to be most creative, most productive at night, but they're going to switch the whole routine around. But for certainly people who are like your average chronotype, it's sort of a mixed one, or you're an early morning person like me, nothing productive gets done after 9pm. But why then, do we have this inherent resistance about actually sort of motivating ourselves to create that wind down routine, and go to bed? Why? Why is it for so many people such an issue? Because I thought was a great question that someone asked, Why do we, and how can we make it this was the question was, how can we make it more attractive? To want to go to bed?

I love this question. And it's, it's a bit tricky, because everyone is a little bit different. Some people actually, you know, the evening time is the first time that they actually have space for themselves. And people are like, Oh, my gosh, I don't have to do anything. It's like, this is my time. And then they, they, they're like, Well, I don't want to use my time sleeping - I'd rather use my time watching Netflix or reading or, you know, whatever it is that people like to do in their free time. And so there becomes this sleep procrastination, that can happen. And, and unfortunately, that's, that's dangerous, because because obviously, if you're not prioritising it, you're not going to be getting enough of it. Right? So, so there's that aspect of it, where people fill their schedules so much, that that's the only time that they have and that's it's, and that's really... You know, it's a scheduling issue, it's a taking on too much issue, that then becomes a sleep issue, because people are like, Oh, this is, but this is my only time! And I don't want to you know, spend it sleep, and I'd rather spend it doing something else, so, so that's one aspect of it. The other aspect of it is oftentimes I find, people just don't understand how important sleep is, there's, there's a really high degree of ignorance around what happens when we sleep. And I used to believe, like, many people probably listening to this, that sleep wasn't important, that it was a waste of time, because our culture tells us that our culture tells us, it's a waste of time, you need to hustle, you need to grind, you know, it's you snooze, you lose, you hear things like this, I'll sleep when I'm dead. There's these common cultural programmes that then people just really never... You know, question, and, and then they see it as a waste of time they see it as something that's not important. And then it becomes this, this thing of well, if it's not important, why should I do it? And and it doesn't, you don't really have, you don't experience the benefits of sleep until you're consistently getting it. And that's where it becomes challenging. Because you're, of course, you're not going to be motivated. If you're not prioritising if you're not feeling a difference because of it. So I think that, you know, a big thing that's really, um, a huge component of it, is tracking it. And because, the reason is that, because you can't manage what you don't measure and like say you can't master what you don't measure and measuring it, you get, you can actually get the tangible data of wow, I prioritise and protected my sleep, I created a nighttime routine, and I stuck to it. And then you get your score. And you can see what a difference it made in your deep sleep, your REM sleep. And then you could start to correlate that with how your day went: Wow, I was more creative, Wow, I was more present, while I had more energy - and then that becomes the motivation to prioritise and protect it. So measuring it, I think is a really key factor for people that are looking to optimise this foundation of health called sleep.

So what you're saying there is as well as the in terms of avoiding the procrastination, as you start to see results, it creates that positive feedback loop. So you're like, Okay, when I make an effort, and I go to bed at the time, I should, and I do the things like why am I blue blockers, everything I do, should do to prepare myself asleep, digital detox, all the things that we know we should be doing when you then see that positive score, that creates that feedback loop that you want to do it again.

100%. And without that, I find that it is... Challenging for people. It really is. Because, again there's, there's these conditions, it's this these mental programmes from society that tell us that it's not important. And then there's so many things now that can distract us from sleep. The founder of Netflix said his competition was sleep, right, so and you think about it, you're watching a show, and the shows today are like movies, and then it just goes right into the next episode - so it's so easy. When, when you're, when you're, you know, you're tired and you're starting to wind down, your willpower kind of starts to decrease because you made all these decisions all day long, and now that that sort of bucket is depleted, and now here you are, you're watching a great show, you're relaxed, and boom: the next episode comes on, and then before you know it, it's 12 o'clock, and you know, you gotta be up at six/six thirty, or whatever it is, and you're going to be carrying some sleep debt. And that's kind of how it happens.

and you can't make that up from the research I've seen. It's not as simple as saying, you know that the brain, for example, that lymphatic system that sort of cleanses the brain at night, it needs to be done daily, you can't just go I'll just do this all week. I can just push the envelope and then at weekends, I'll catch up. It doesn't work like that, does it?

I mean, there's some, you know, depending on who you ask, they might have a there's some different opinions on that. But the the primary opinion at the moment is yes, you can't catch up on your sleep. And what happens is there's this neurochemical called adenosine that builds up and adenosine is you can think of adenosine as it's, it's building up a sleep pressure and pressure in a way not like cognitive pressure, but like physical pressure to then sleep. And when that builds up, okay, builds up gets to a point, we go to sleep and then clearly flushes out. And so if you're not giving enough time to sort of flush out you're carrying that adenosine into the next day that sleeping and so it's sort of there's this whole there's two systems that control sleep, it's the you know, that that system, the sleep pressure system, and then there's the circadian system, right. So a lot of what people do just because living in the modern world, from you know, the lighting and the food and just our environments in general. I disrupt these two physical systems that control sleep.

And what do you use to track sleep? I track my with my aura I'm just curious what do you use to track nurse so

Yeah, so at sleep science academy and personally I use the Oura ring, because I find that it's, it's the most accurate and it's the least invasive. When it comes to tracking sleep. It's not the best I don't think activity tracker or overall tracker, but if you have, umm... If you're looking for you know, I think overall tracking for sleep, specifically Oura ring and then an Apple Watch those two compared together are, uhh, a really powerful combo for for optimization and human tracking. Yeah.

Using them both

Using them together. Yeah, because the Oura ring... For, for other things as far as activity and those types of things, if you can get that data from your Apple Watch and sort of begin to have them communicate, which you can, I find that it's, that's a really good combo. I personally, I don't like wearing devices. So I actually only wear my Oura ring at night. Even though the new, the newest generation, it's you know, you can wear it all day and there's it gives you some some feedback based off doing that, umm... I'm kind of a low tech person, soo ah ha. But that those are that's a powerful combo, so the Apple Watch with the Oura ring, but specifically Oura for sleep. I just find that it's the most accurate, least invasive, and uhh, and it also is pretty stylish too if you want to wear it during the day.

What do you track when you're saying that you so you look at aura for seat metrics. And then with your clients, and then Apple Watch for other metrics. What are you tracking on Apple?

activity, activity?

And exercise sessions?

Yeah, exactly. Because I just find that the ordering is getting better with their their algorithm and with their software's to sort of accurately track that. But I feel like Apple still has a little bit of a head start on that specifically.

Yeah. What about? Because that kind of is an all in one, do you? Do you ever recommend that?

So whoop. I don't personally own a whoop. I know, many clients have them and love them. And I've also seen some comparison, you know, ordering to whoop. And yeah, it's it's, I think it's a great piece of technology. Again, all these pieces of tech are getting better as time goes on. And as they upgrade the devices and as they upgrade their algorithms and as they get more data from their users. So I think as time goes on, they're gonna continue to improve. But oops, oops, another fantastic option for sleep. Not the best ordering. Definitely. I think Trump's the whoop when it comes to sleep specifically.

Yeah, I must say I like the metrics on Oura. Umm.. Now what would you say when we're talking there, people do, as you say there's a culture of sacrificing sleep, uhh, and many people leaders included - in particular that we could look at right over the Prime Ministers in this country, presidents they've, you know, lots of people have sacrificed sleep - athletes seem always to prioritise it, but then their physical output is such that, it feels like they need that rejuvenation. We see a lot of people coming forward now who say... You know, Tony Robbins would be an example of this: you know, I used to think I could sleep.. get by on four hours of sleep, but actually now I really prioritise it, for people listening that might be thinking, Well, hey, you know, that's great, but actually maybe it was you putting in more work and not having much sleep, that got you to where you are todaym because it's now, you're in that situation that maybe you can dedicate more time to sleep. Uhh, What was, was your experience in terms of sleep optimization for human performance? And do you think that someone who's listening who's maybe starting a new business venture that actually by them saying and protecting a certain amount, they're gonna get ahead quicker than if they skimp on sleep to try and do it?

Yeah, I mean, that's a, it's a fantastic question. And it really depends. And so it depends on a lot of factors, it depends on what you're doing outside of sleep. So you can get away with sacrificing sleep for a short amount of time, you can do it if you're doing all the other things correctly, but eventually, it's going to catch up with you. And so when you're creating a, that habit, this is where it becomes dangerous, you can sacrifice this for a little bit, if you're eating the right things, if you're doing your human performance optimization during the day, for a short time, but it then catches up. So if you're, if your goal is sustainability, is longevity, and it's also if your goal is to enjoy what you're doing, then you're gonna want to continue to prioritise and protect sleep, if your goal is I want to, you know, become as successful as I can, as fast as I can, and I'm willing to sacrifice my joy, and I'm willing to sacrifice how I feel physically, um, just to get it done and to get there, then that's a decision and choice that some people make. And you can make that... But you're going to be sacrificing some things along the way. So it's, it's, I, I like, if you, if you take a more sustainable approach, you might get there a little bit slower, maybe, but you're going to enjoy it. And you're not going to be sacrificing anything. Now, if you want to sacrifice your sleep and get there a little bit quicker, again, there's, there's, there's, there's a payoff for that. And it really depends on, it comes down to what do you prioritise? Where's your What did you... Is success, whatever that means to you, whether usually it's financial, is that more important than your health and happiness? And sometimes people say, yeah, it is. And so, if you make that decision, then okay, there's a cost to it. So it really comes down to... to your values, it comes down to, you know, for me, I am not willing, and I've had I've played with the other side of this of sacrificing my sleep, this is before I really knew how important was to, you know, to get things done. And I found that I, I just, I'm way more productive, way more joyful, doing what I'm doing now that I don't do that, uhh so, so yeah, you might be able to get somewhere a little bit faster. But is it really worth it? Is the question. Yeah.

And also... I, I, I agree, I agree. And I think that when you're looking at success in any level, right, it's what are we sustainable success. And there is, as you say, there's a price and everything like there's a price to pay. But also kind of if how sustainable, is it? If you do everything? Where are you going to stop? It kind of becomes a new habit, right? At what point are you going to say, now I'm successful enough that I can prioritise my sleep, because actually, that moment that day may never come? Because that a goal in my experience just expands, doesn't it? You know, you want to achieve?

I love this quote by Warren Buffett, someone asked them how much is enough, and he just he answered a little bit more. And it is, and so people have this illusion, I like to actually call it a delusion, that when I get to a certain place of let's say, fame or success or power, then I'll fill in the blank, then I'll sleep, then I'll spend more time with my kids, then I'll you know, focus more on my relationship. And that never comes with an illusion. And unfortunately, some people they you know, people do share that. And they may you may be can see it in pop culture, you know, like, look at the divorce rate and have these super successful people that are, you know, they're sacrificing something, you know, or their mental health, you know, suicide or all these things that happen. And so there's that there is but there's still this illusion or delusion that when I get to a certain place, then I'll fill in the blank. That place never comes. It's it's really, but unfortunately, some people need to experience that in order for that to be true for them. Versus I think you can see if you're if you're curious, you can observe your environment. And see that that's actually not true. And I've experienced that working with clients that are extremely successful. And yet it's theirs. They're still there. They've made a lot of sacrifices. And it's just it's not worth it. It really isn't.

I mean, it's just yeah, as you say, is that price to pay. So from your perspective, then, let's talk about because not every night is a perfect night, we always aim to get as much sleep and the quality deep and REM sleep. And I do want to talk to you about that in a moment in terms of breaking it down. But do you have a kind of non negotiable where you say regardless of whether I'm travelling, I've got a lot on how you are just curious how you structure it. So like some high performers I speak to that what they'll say is they'll say, right, I know that, you know, if I'm working across a time zone, I'm delivering a presentation, and I'm going to be delivering that quite late into the evening, then I will my non negotiable will be six hours so if it means I'm going to go to bed at midnight instead of 10 I'm just going to say right, I will sleep between midnight and 6am I'm never going to compress it even though on a normal day, they might go to bed at 10 and wake up at five and do their morning routine and then they kind of shorten their exercise session. I'm just curious what you do and with your clients in terms of that optimization because not every day is a perfect day right?

Yeah there's not there's not there's no such thing as perfect sleep. And you know depending on your your lifestyle and what's going on that's going to shift your sleep actually changes with the seasons Believe it or not. So the amount of sleep you get how you sleep and then there's you know so and then with life, your your sleep changes as we age. You might need more asleep, he might need less sleep depending on where you are on the spectrum. So, you know, the thing that's really important to get is you can't force or control sleep. And a lot of times people fall into this idea of, oh, well, I can, you know, I'm going to sleep at this time, and I need this amount of sleep, and it actually creates this anticipatory anxiety, which then paradoxically, keeps them up. So I, we, I mean, what we teach our clients at the academy is to just accept whatever the night brings, whether it's a great night asleep, or a poor night asleep, because that actually reduces the amount that anticipatory anxiety and allows the body to do what it knows how to do which asleep, just like the body knows how to breathe. You know, think about it, heart knows how to beat a beats, your fingernails grow. There's an intelligence the body, and oftentimes we get in the way, because we're in the idea that we can force or control this one thing called sleep, you can't. Now can you can you support it? With, you know, all the things, the sleep hygiene things? Absolutely, absolutely. But sometimes people fall into this bucket of, you know, trying to control it. And it's that the very thing that keeps them from getting enough sleep or enough quality sleep. Yeah, definitely,

I think it's interesting. I always compare it to like falling in love, if someone's looking for a partner, and they're just never going to meet them, right, that love just kind of comes over you. And that's, that's how sleep happens. Right? You can't make it happen, it kind of just comes over you under the same. And I found that as soon as you release yourself from the pressure that you must sleep. And you're just kind of almost get I say this with my children, as well as my clients just lie there and reassure yourself almost like an affirmation of, I'm gonna lie here and my body and mind are getting all the rest they need. And you fall asleep very quickly, because you just removed any necessity to sleep now.

Absolutely. It's a lot. People often focus on the physical aspects of sleep, and sleep optimization, they totally disregard the psychological aspects, which the body follows the mind. So you know, if you're carrying your day into your night, and you're thinking about all the things that you have to do, or you didn't do, and your mind starts to race, your body's gonna respond to that with releasing adrenaline, and cortisol, and all these things that really don't need to be released when you're laying in bed. So it's so important to mentally get yourself in a good state and have tools to do that. So that your body can just do what it knows how to do. So it's really important for people to understand that and we always say to people in our academy, that you don't do things so that you can sleep, like you're not doing a bedtime routine, so that you can get great sleep, it's it's it sounds funny saying that, you're just doing it to create the opportunity for sleep to happen. It's a very important distinction. Because sometimes people are like, well, I'm going to do all these things, and that's going to improve my sleep. And then there's this expectation, there's this attachment, which creates anticipatory pressure, which then keeps you up, or it doesn't allow your body to then do it, it knows how to do. So it's very important to really hammer that home for people to get that, because it goes a long way, when we're talking about quality and depth of sleep.

I love that it's very similar to fertility as well. All right, you can only create the opportunity for conception to occur. You don't have control over conception, I think again, so really similar analogy, like sleep and conception, because it's like you can create that window of opportunity, and then kind of get a give it up. Right?

Well, I mean, yeah, we could we could say yeah, fertility, you know, like sexual performance, actually, it's like, you're not gonna force an orgasm or something like that. Like, it's, it's that happens when you're allowing it to happen. It's really interesting, but there's a lot of places in life, that this sort of mentality can be extremely helpful. And it's, you know, when you really get it, like just letting go. Oftentimes, a lot of the people that we support, a lot of times they're very successful, high performing people, they have these certain patterns, I call the P patterns, they have a little bit of perfectionism, right? They're very, you know, and that helps them be successful in some ways. But when it comes to sleep, it's not helpful. They treat it like it's a problem. And usually entrepreneurs, high performers, they're problem solvers. So then they're treating sleep, oh, I want to, it's a problem I need to solve and it's not six, not the problem, it's a result. And then they put it on a pedestal and this is the trickiest one because it deserves to be on a pedestal because it really is. It is the thing that affects everything else. It's the foundation but by putting Got a pedestal, if you're not getting it, then you start to worry about it. And you know, if you know the statistics of what it actually does your, your, your physique, you know, longevity and physical health, even after one night of poor sleep, then it becomes like, Oh my God, I need it. And if I don't get it, and that becomes, unfortunately, that becomes this, this very thing that then again, creates this, this anxiety that then keeps people up, which is which is, so it's a bit tricky. Those are the three P's. There's, I call them the P patterns, that a lot of people, and it's

interesting. Perfectionism, and what are they?

Yeah, so perfectionism, I call it the perfectionism pattern, the problem solver pattern, and the pedestal pattern. Yeah, and so the first to the problem solver and the perfectionism, usually those sort of those, say, ways of being can help you accomplish a lot in your life in your business. But when it comes to sleep, they actually do the exact opposite. And so it's interesting. It's fascinating. Yeah, it really is. And when people get that, when they're in those patterns, and then they can kind of see how that is not is actually the very thing that's keeping them up. And they're able to shift that. Wow, it's just amazing what happens to their their sleep.

And what do you recommend, like for people who are, you know, they've got to release those patterns. But then when they're lying in bed in that moment, let's say, for some people, they fall asleep, and then they wake up, and they can't get back to sleep. Or some people are just lying, they're struggling to go back to sleep, what are kind of the tools that they can use in those moments to help them?

Yeah, there's something called stimulus control. And this means essentially, you don't want to be in your bed awake. So if you wake up, and your mind's racing, and you're, you know, you're you're kind of tossing and turning. After you know, about 20 minutes, you don't want to look at the clock, because that creates, oh my gosh, now I only have three more hours until I have to wake up or two more hour, and then it creates, again, more anxiety. So don't look at the clock, but just kind of feel in your body, okay, you kind of can know, am I gonna be able to get back to sleep or not. And if you can't have that feeling that you're not remove yourself from the bedroom, and the bed, because you do not want to anchor that bedroom and bed with tossing and turning with thinking with waking up. So you remove yourself, go do something relaxing, something boring and low light, do not check your emails, do not check social media, do not check the news, maybe read a book, maybe stretch, maybe put on a meditation. And then once you start to feel, you know that sleep pressure kind of come back on, you just get back in bed. And that it's an incredible strategy that works when you don't find yourself trying to force or control sleep. Because usually that's also a pattern that comes online. When people are awake in the middle of night. They're like, what can I do to get back to sleep because I don't I have four more hours, I need to get back to sleep. So I'm gonna, you know, let me do this meditation, and I'm gonna stretch and do these things. And, and then again, it builds up this this anticipatory performance anxiety, then this very thing that keeps people from falling back asleep. So you know, so

actually do something, take yourself out of the environment, it's so easy. That anchoring that you're talking about with sleep in particular, happens very, very quickly. And I think a lot of people don't realise that, that suddenly the bed has now become a place associated with not being able to

do. Yes, I actually had a client that it was so bad that his wife had to drive him around in the car in the middle of the night. And then, you know, because he literally was at that level of like, fear with bed and bedroom, and you can sleep anywhere unless he was driving around in a car in the middle of the night. Yeah, and then he got to the point where he could sleep in a chair. And then eventually, we moved them into his bed and bedroom so you can get to a really extreme place for certain people. I mean, we work with people that are, you know, they're on sleeping pills, or and they're really they've tried all the things and they're still not sleeping, and it's having massive impact in our life, that those are really our clients. But, but it can happen to anybody, you know, so so it's just so important to have a place and a plan. For some reason. I love peace. I don't know everything.

I remember, I guess.

Yeah, yeah. So So placed in a plan. So a place and a plan, meaning if you wake up, you have a place that you go, and you have a plan for what you're going to do. It's really simple. You know, it's, you know, in Florida, we have a hurricane plan, right? It's if a hurricane comes, we know where we're going. We know what we have here to keep ourselves in a good place and safe. Same thing with this you have, you know, place and plan.

Found any particular like supplement that you think really helplessly?

Yeah, you know what ha, uhh in my book, there's an entire chapter on all of those supplements, there is, wow, there's a lot to talk about in this specific area. Now. You know, it really depends on the person, you know, so there's there's different categories of supplements, there's herbs, there's amino acids, you know, there's there's combinations of these types of things that people have supplements that are created with, you know, umm, minerals like magnesium. So it's, it's an even vitamins, right? So there's all different types of, when it comes to sleep supplements, there's all different types. I like to keep things simple. You know, most people are deficient in magnesium. And magnesium is shown to relax the body. It's it's involved in, you know, I think it's like 600 other functions in the body, and most people aren't getting enough of it. So that's that's one. Vitamin D is another one that most people are deficient in. So and, and that's definitely linked to sleep and preferably, you're getting it from the sun but, umm.... And then there's, you know, there's things like CBD, which is the non psychoactive constituent in marijuana, which can be very helpful if you get a high quality CBD, there is GABA, there's l theanine, there's fossil siddell sarine, which is hard to say we just call it PS, which some people have extreme success with that. So there's, there's different categories. And again, in my book, there's a whole chapter that kind of goes through Hey.

Hey, yeah, yeah.

All of those. Yeah, different combinations. And also, funnily enough, actually, I found that mushrooms, Reishi and Chaga, somehow, just in combination with magnesium seem to work really well.

I'll tell you what, I'm a huge fan of mushrooms. I'm a huge fan of all types. The Amazing, amazing mushrooms are amazing. For sure. You know, they are so powerful for for just so many different things. Yeah, and the thing is like, what I found is that every body is different. So what works for you with the mushrooms and magnesium might not work for the people listening to this, that might not work for me. So you really do have to have a little bit of experimentation there. And obviously, you need to be tracking it to see if you know if it's making a difference.

Thank you so much. Thanks for coming on the show and sharing all of that. Where can people find out more about you your work, your book, your Steve Academy, please link and socials, everything Commodore

sleep science academy for people that are interested in, you know, improving their sleep if you're exhausted Insomniac, or high performer that have a real issue. online social handles is Devin Burke, wellness, and YouTube, put a lot of content on YouTube there and Instagram and all that. And then the book, The Sleep advantage that's on Amazon, you can also get it on Audible. If you don't want to read. Some people just like to listen to things. So that's that's where you can find all my all my stuff.

Or if you let me I get the audible and the physical. And then I go between the two I find that really a really good way of reading.

Oh, wow. Yeah, that's that's definitely a learning hack. Yeah. audio and visual. And that's, it's pretty cool. Yeah.

Because I might listen to the audio in the car or in the gym or something like that. And then I can go back and highlight the bits in the book that I think are really relevant. And that's kind of how

I love. That's, that's a really cool strategy. Very cool.

Well, thank you so much. We will link to all of that in the show notes. And thanks for being so generous with your time and answering those questions. Really a great pleasure to have you on the show, Devin.

Oh, pleasures mine. Thanks for having me and for the work that you're doing in the world. Thanks. Thanks, Devon.

Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. As always, the shownotes will be over on my website, Angelafosterperformance.com/podcast. And you can download the transcript there together with the show notes and all of the other resources that I have on my website, Angelafosterperformance.com. Thank you so much for listening, and I'll see you in the next episode.

Thanks for listening. Remember to review and subscribe, you can grab the show notes, the resources and highlights of everything Angela mentioned over at Angela Foster performance.com You can also snatch up plenty of other goodies, including the highly helpful Angela recommends page which is a list of everything she personally recommend to optimise your mind, body and lifestyle.