Everyone, Welcome to a belated next episode of the all the things ADHD
podcast, but later than ever, yes.
Better later the app. Okay. Yeah, we, as I said this tweet, we had set two consecutive scheduling snafu shoes, where I knew I was gonna be out of the country. But then Amy also had an appointment. And so now you know, we'll launch launch season five, and then take a three week break. It's fine. It's all good.
Sure. And that's classic us as well. I believe we discuss this in an episode about writing things down. But the schedules don't attach in your brain. Right. So complete compartmentalization. Yes, in popular television show, severance. Except when I'm traveling and have an appointment. I booked that in a completely separate part of my brain. Then I podcast with Lee and you were like, you discuss this how you had done this with a trip earlier this year. And then you're like, Oh, crap, I'm actually going to be in Scotland. Yeah. Okay. What you knew you didn't forget either the podcast or Scotland did I didn't forget my appointment or the podcast is just they existed somehow in two different dimensions.
Yeah. Yeah. Like I've told the story before how I would be like, tell the class. You know, I'm going to a conference next week. See on Wednesday, you know, and then having to like frantically message, my colleague saying like, Hey, could you remind my, just let my class know that the class is actually cancelled? Because I forgot to do that. I forgot. Yeah, cuz I'm in. I'm in conference line right now. Yeah, that's this. Yeah. It really is. Oh, gosh, it really is almost like severance isn't good grief. Yeah. Hopefully. less creepy, but hopefully less
creepy. Yeah, I haven't watched it. I just read the recaps because that's who I am.
Oh, yeah. It does add to it. Then. If I really liked the recap, Sybil watch
the show. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Same.
I have watch separate and it is actually really frickin good. What are we going to
talk about this weekly.
So, as those of you who have ADHD probably already know, or have other kinds of neuro divergence, or if you love somebody who does, you know that sleep is an issue and we've actually talked about sleep on more than one occasion. But today, we are going to talk about that. What is it procrastination sleep? Revenge.
Revenge. Sleep. Procrastination. Okay, I got the word. I got the words right. Just do the wrong thing with the right words in the wrong order. Which is like such a mood.
Revenge bedtime, procrastination. They're
yelled. Oh, yeah. Gosh,
it's a great start. Everybody's glad we took three weeks to get our shit together to get this episode. Yeah, right. Yeah. immense amounts of preparation. Right. So revenge. Bedtime. Procrastination, is when I think everybody will recognize this is when you've had such a hard day fulfilling demands on so many friends for so many people. And you've really given your all and you felt like you've not had very much control over your life. And then you come home and instead of like, cooking something nutritious, that would suit you, you eat an entire bag of Doritos, and wash it down with a beer because you deserve it. Right? Even though you know immediately you're gonna get bloated, and unhappy. And then you're so tired that you put your pajamas on with this idea that you're gonna go to bed by 8pm. And somehow, at 130 in the morning, you're trying to get a two word solution to letterboxed on the New York Times games site, and you're exhausted and somehow you know that you've been should have been asleep at 8pm. And it's like coming up on two and you're just like, No, I deserve this. To be tired tomorrow. So that's revenge. That time procrastination is when you put off an element of self care that you have been craving, like all day or that you know that you need or that like you actually have to fight your body to not fall asleep. You know, you're exhausted but you refuse to because you won't let the man control your sleep schedule. Yeah, somehow is how it works. Does that happen to
me? Oh, gosh, all the time. All the freakin time. Um, that's like, I used to have a lot of trouble falling asleep generally. Right? And so I would go to bed and I was always like, growing up, I was forced to go to bed early. And then you know, I would just lie in bed for four hours or five hours or whatever. And then in college, I would just stay up playing solitaire because I couldn't sleep remember solitaire on Windows 95 classic
on Windows 3.10. That too?
Yeah. And but now that I'm over older and again have less control. over my time I find myself in revenge sleep procrastination all the time, where I am going to binge. Dr. Pimple Popper, right? I'll give a shit how late
it is. That's right. Because you deserve it because I deserve it. Make your own choices. Yes, how you spend your time your body's not going to control you know, your own circadian rhythm can go step on a knife, right? Well, it already
did does step on a knife already. I don't have a circadian rhythm. I just have like, maybe I'll go to go to sleep now. I don't know like and, and it's funny, because now now it's Pavlovian. Where I put on Dr. Pimple Popper, and I fall asleep, almost guaranteed. I'm falling asleep on the couch, it doesn't matter.
even want to think about what sort of dreams that produces for you. I would switch you're falling asleep.
Well, well, fun, fun fact about discovery. Plus, it's not like Netflix after a certain amount of time it asks you if you're still watching, it'll keep going on. Yeah, yeah. No, it keeps going. So like when I wake up at 530 in the morning, and I've cycled through all the Dr. Pimple Popper. And now I'm just an algorithmic hell of suggested shows that I should watch X ray, like, I'll have my eyes closed, and I'll hear stuff about prosthetic limbs, and I'm like, What the hell is going on?
How long have I been asleep here? Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, that's another thing like when Netflix will say like, are you still watching? And like, I don't know about you. But many people have a rage response to that. Right? Like, bossing me now you judging me Netflix because I've like Ching. Like, maybe like all 11 episodes of Sandman in a row or something, which I'm not doing it's a one per day show. And, and you get mad, right? Like, you can't control me. Yeah, Netflix, right. I'm gonna make my own decisions. But like, what are you proving to Netflix when you're like, Yeah, I'm still watching next episode. Yeah, right. Why do we do this?
I mean, I, I'm actually talking about this with my therapist. I'm like, It's cuz for me, like, the the evenings is, like, it? It's my time. Yeah, right, like evenings or my time. evenings are, like, you know, and it was different when the kids would go to bed at 630 at night when they were babies, right? Where you could be like, Alright, now I've got like, three hours to myself and time with my husband. And so, you know, like, if I go to bed at 930 or 10, I felt like I've had a good four hours of just me time. Right? Yeah. Or us time or that sort of thing. Whereas now, you know, I, my daughter is turned into a night owl. And so it's like, midnight, and we're like, are you gonna go to bed anytime soon? And then there's just something really like, to me, there's a mental block where it's like, it's not that I can't go to sleep before my kid. But it's like, if you're not asleep, then I'm still on as a parent.
Right? Right. Yeah. Like,
like, when you're in bed, and you're sleeping. I can be like, Okay, finally, the day is over. And now I don't have to worry about anything else. Except myself and what I'm gonna watch, but then it's like, okay, she's still up. All right, well, gotta take a shower. So when should I tell her to get ready? If she gave me going to listen to me to get ready, no. husband gets frustrated. Why is she still awake? It's like, I don't know. Can you make her do anything? Can anyone like, is this not? So it's I don't know. I'm like, The evenings are me time. And right. And I want that me time. And I don't care how tired I am. Because me time. But if I'm not awake to enjoy it, then what the hell is the point of it?
Right, right. Yeah. That kind of you're looking for and I think most of us are looking for sure time or no one is demands on us. And we do not need to use any spoons, right? Yeah. Where it feels like it takes a lot of executive function to remember that somebody needs to have their shower by this time and that you can't start the dishwasher until that happens. And you really want to start the dishwasher so that you can stop thinking about remembering to start the dishwasher. And so then you're like, kind of anxiously over surveilling the person who needs to get in the shower, and then they're mad at you because you keep reminding them and then they push it too late. And you're like, you kind of get more and more resentful because you're like, I'm still on the clock. Right? Like I'm still vigilant about things right. So yeah, like I think part of that I think that's very understandable because like I think most of us neurodivergent people in particular, that we cannot truly relax if we feel that we are responsible for something that is ongoing right and then also feels like that that was sponsibility is to others or to an organization or to a household, it's sort of like, you know, being on call, like, as a doctor, right? Like you can't like and people will say you don't ever really, truly relax when your care like back in the day when you have the beeper, right? Because you can't drink because it might go off, right? And then you have to, and you can't get too far away from the hospital because it might go off. So even if it doesn't, you're, you're still vigilant, and you're not, you're not really relaxing. And I think, for those of us who seem to spend most of our working days like in a desperate fight with our own attention and willpower to stay, to stay focused, and to remember the things that we have to do, and to not let people down and to make sure things get done that need to get done is like that, when we're tired. From that. We could just go to sleep, maybe I mean, but some of us actually do need, you know, like you were saying about Leo has this whole wind down routine before bed, where it requires a certain amount of like, gradual detachment from the stimulus of the day. And some of us need that to go to sleep. So that even if you You did say that's it, like the minute, you know, this kid gets into their room and closes the door, I'm going right to sleep, you probably couldn't, because you're still you can't just turn their the anxious hypervigilance off, but also you feel cheated, because you never got the time of the day that you got to just enjoy according to your own whim without kind of riding herd on your attention for something else, right.
And my kids, and this is I mean, I, you know, there I got sick a couple of weeks before the trip. And I was so sick that I was just like, I'm going to bed like I just like my body like I am going to go to bed. And it was obscenely early. Right. Right. And, you know, my daughter was like, and I expect me to go to bed. No, but I would like you to keep your voice down. Did you get i FaceTimed her twice. And then finally had to walk down to a room knock on the door and be like for the love of God? Yes. Like, she's like, I'm almost done. I'm like, I don't give a shit stay up till two in the morning at this point, just because it's yeah. Like it. She was like, taken aback. And I'm like, I'm really sick. And I'm really tired. And I've been trying to sleep for two goddamn hours. And I can't, Yeah, fucking loud.
So this is another one of those situations where we let ourselves down before other people can let us down. Right? Like very frustrating experience for you to actually say like, you know what, I can't be hyper vigilant about all of you, I actually need to go to sleep and I want to go to sleep. But as it turns out, your family was not able to manage themselves, right? Which then instead of just being vigilant and tired, you were exhausted, disappointed in yourself and then resentful of your kid. Right? Yeah. So it's sort of rather and and that's probably a way in which you build a pattern in which you just never actually going to start until everyone is safely tucked away for the night. Because when you try to do that beforehand, right? When you try to be like, well, you can have your evening and I can have a evening just because you're awake. It doesn't mean you're my problem, right? But even if you've decided to go that route, it seems that when you have attempted that it hasn't worked because your family does seem to need you to manage them in that way. Right. So then you just stop trying, because we'd rather we'd rather be exhausted and resentful by our own behavior than trusting others to let us have what we need and then get angry.
Right? Yeah. And, you know, how many times do I have to ask, but yeah, and I think what has made this even more fraught for me, is that like, a year ago, I was diagnosed with this and this is like, total. I don't know if this is asleep, or bedtime, procrastination or just general like resistance. But I was diagnosed with sleep apnea. Oh, so I snore, like a frickin chainsaw. Like I is really bad and people fear for my life while I sleep.
Oh, until you stop breathing. That's yeah,
yeah. And so I and I was on the waiting list. I was all excited and I finally got my CPAP machine. asked me how often I've used my CPAP machine.
Oh, why aren't you using
cuz it is another fucking thing that I now have to add to the goddamn pitch. I'm routine.
Right? That is absolutely revenge bedtime procrastinated, lay, I'm going to wake up for five seconds 35 times tonight imperiling my own cardiac health and my sense of rush because CPAP machine you are not the boss of me. Well,
it's just like, Okay, well now, you know, and I already have so much trouble falling asleep. And so it's like, okay, like, all right, and I can use sleep stories and You know, Matthew McConaughey talking about the wonders of outer space is really soothing. Seriously, if you have the calm app go with the Matthew McConaughey or LeVar Burton talking about the universe. That's also a really good one. And the dude from Peaky Blinders taking you on a train ride through Ireland. That's amazing. Those are those are my three go to ones. But then it's like, okay, well, I gotta have my sleep story on. But now I also have my CPAP machine on which I have to make sure is cleaned. And it has enough water in it. And is it the proper setting, but I haven't even found the proper setting yet. And my CPAP machine makes me feel like I can either only breathe through my nose or my mouth. But apparently I use both when I breathe and so I get very confused. And so now I don't know how to breathe. Oh, yeah,
that's very restful.
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I'm like, the family. Like, I actually we take turns sleeping in the basement because my snoring is so bad that my husband can't sleep through it. So, you know, and I and I, you know, I don't like this. It's not pleasant, but I also use, like, why don't use the CPAP machine. And I'm just like, because I like I just resent it. I hate it. Sure. Like, I don't want this like now I feel like already. I'm like, why? You know, why do I have to go to bed so early now it's like, well, now I gotta go to bed even earlier to get all the shit ready. And like get settled in and just my mask and get the sleep and like, like, I don't want to do this. I don't want this. Like I just want to go to sleep.
Oh, Lee, this is so relatable. This is so relatable, so I stayed up way too late. Last because I won't go to sleep with all my makeup still on. I mean, all my makeup, it's like what, a tinted primer, some blush, some eyeshadow, the end, but I will not go to sleep with it on my face because it's bad for my skin and bad for my pillowcases and all this stuff. But I was in bed like already hanging out. With my kid we were we like to do the vertex game on the New York Times. And it was a lobster yesterday. And it took like a million years to get it done. We were laughing. So they left my room I like just after 11 And then I like farted around on my phone until about one because I didn't want to get out of bed and wash my face. Right? Like I just I was not going to go to sleep without washing my face. But I was also not going to get up to wash my face. And like What has also happened to me in the past week is I will be like will have my face washed and I am in bed and I like have taken my nighttime Trazodone anti anxiety med that helps me fall asleep. But I'm not sleeping because I'm actually really hungry, right? Because I tend to chronically forget to eat when I go to campus during the day. And then I have a big supper, but it's not enough. I'm still like 500 calories behind and then it only hits me when I'm trying to fall asleep. I finally notice my body's signal that I'm hungry and I won't get up and eat something even though I could just like, go downstairs and grab an emergency breakfast shake. Right? And you might ask yourself, oh, Amy, I thought you had your emergency breakfast shakes next to your bed. I mean, I did. And then I drank them and then I didn't bring any more up. Right and then in the morning when I get up and I'm like I should bring some shakes upstairs and I'm like, No, fuck that. Right? Like I don't want to be thinking about tonight right now. And then by the time I'm in bed and I'm hungry, it's already too late. I'm like I could just go downstairs now and I could like drink a shake it would take 30 seconds right? And then while I'm down there drinking that shake, I could grab some more and bring them upstairs and then I don't and then I lie in bed like with the lights off and my earplugs in, tucked in like snuggling my stuffy and the cat's on my feet and I can't sleep because I'm too hungry but I will wait it out. Right and that's just all because I don't want to have to do one more thing right it feels like when bedtime now has a to do list. Yeah, right. And the to do list is getting longer like I have this cream now that I have to hormone cream progesterone cream that I put on my arms and it's like I keep forgetting to take it and sometimes it's in the wrong room because I have to take it twice a day. So it's really hard to have it in the right spot where I remember that I took it in the morning or that I took it at night right and so I'm gonna lie there and think about did I take it and then I do want to get up and take it because if I if I put it on my arms I have to rub it on the inside of my arms because like from my wrist to my elbows it's just because it absorbs through your skin and yeah, but then my inner arms are wet and I have to let them dry
dry yeah. Oh yeah. No that is yeah, definitely take a shower before I go to bed either because I'm just like I'm like still damp. I don't want to get Yeah,
this is like a bit sticky from lotion right? So if I like pull my sleeves down like it just feels yucky but also I don't want to like wipe off before I've absorbed it I'm like you know I will wait 45 minutes to go put this cream on my arms because it feels like too much to wait one minute after I put it on to be able to pull my sleeves back down like that is massively counterproductive. But I truly think It is the things that we need to do to relax either rely on other people not bothering us, which we control also seem to have attached to them like often quite large to do lists, right? Like the number of times I have become enraged because I have to get up because I forgot to feed the cat, right. But I know if I don't feed him, he will jump on my head all night, right? So it didn't really matter. Like, go downstairs and have a shake or like, Oh, I forgot to put my braces in. Like my retainers, right? So it's like, yeah, I have to take my nighttime pill, I have to take my nighttime cream, I have to like feed the cat, I have to like, brush my teeth and put my retainer and have to make sure I take all my makeup off. It's like, oh, God, that's like so much. Right? And I'm not going to do it. So. Um, so it feels like an act of resistance. Right? But it's not like we're enacting that resistance at work. We're not like, yeah, you know what, I'm not going to answer those emails on a wait. I do that. Actually. I'm doing
Yeah, emails are bad example. Maybe she's not gonna grade those papers.
Yeah, exactly. Because I was great. Those knock, I'm not gonna go to class because I'm like, You're not the boss of me, registrar. Right? Like, ya know, like, I follow through for that. And when my family needs me, like, you know, my kid needs me to drive them to something like, I do it. Right. It's and, you know, they need help with their homework, I do it or they need to be reminded 50 times to take the dog out. Like, I will do that, too. I do all of that. And the person that I rebel against, is myself. Right. So those Yeah, to do list items that like, like, you want to use your CPAP machine because you will sleep better. Yeah, you snore. But like you are rebelling against something that's on your to do list because you put it there. Yeah. Right. And like and so do I like I do think you know, my skin won't look great. If I keep sleeping with my makeup on. No, like, I will get like these little breakouts or I'll get like a rash from it. But you know, what else makes my skin not look great? Is like only sleeping four hours a night? Yeah.
There's no not eating enough calories in a day. Yeah, yeah,
exactly. Like the time I save. So that to make sure that you know, I didn't let anybody down in my class means that like, I'm going to bed like hungry. I'd like to sleep when I'm quite hungry. Because I'm so tired. Like, I'm so tired. I'll just be able to sleep it it won't bother me in the morning. I'll eat that I wake up at three because I'm too hungry. Yeah, you
just start your body's like, please. We're, we're done with this. Like, yeah, calories.
Yeah, exactly. And it's like, and I know what's gonna happen. It's predictable. It's predictable. And I can predict it. And I do and I'm still like, but, but I would like to make a decision. Right? So the decision is like, fuck that noise, basically. And it's always the wrong decision, because I'm the only person I ever rebel against. Yes, myself. Yep.
It looks good for us. Like, yeah, we know like, you said it. Exactly. I want to use a CPAP machine. I, you know, I would like to sleep better. I would like to maybe not have a heart attack and die or like, I don't know. Whatever it is, that can happen with severe sleep apnea, which is apparently what I have. But I'm asleep. How do I know? You know, I don't want everyone in my house to suffer because, you know, I sound like a chainsaw. A sputtering chainsaw at that. But, but I just I
guess, a chainsaw that occasionally stalls, right? Yeah. She gotta start again. Yeah.
It's really bad. Actually, so what's what has inspired me to actually really try to do this now? Is Joe. I don't know if you've seen the comedian Jo Koy. He's thing. Oh, okay. So he's a he's a Filipino comedian, stand up comedian. And I growing up in Quebec, I have a lot of Filipino friends because Catholic and all of that kind of stuff. And so clips of his stuff. We're making the rounds of him like interacting with his Filipino mom and like the traditions and all of that. And he's he has a couple of specials on Netflix now. And his most recent one just came out. And he has a whole bit about sleep apnea, because he has it too. Right. And he has a whole bit where he calls out people in the crowd saying like, how many of you ladies have a husband or boyfriend or you know, with sleep apnea, and they refuse to do anything about it? And then so he picks it takes one couple and then starts picking on them. And like tears, like just tears rolling down my face because it's exactly right. It is it's vulgar as well. But it's so funny if you can if you search out his new one. It's on Netflix at least here in the States. It is. I just about died. Laughing like i i started coughing because I was still sick at that point. And my husband came downstairs because he was concerned I was gonna die. Because I couldn't stop laugh coughing. I couldn't catch my breath.
Right. Yeah, but
that I'm sort of like, oh God, that is probably what I sound like. And I should probably do something about that. Because he was basically calling out all the guys saying like, it's not a big deal. Do it. Your loved ones will thank you for it. And I'm like, Yeah, I know. Stop judging me.
Yeah. Problem. Your problem is kind of like, sort of mask. No, like, I don't need a machine to help me sleep or like, my snoring is not a problem. It's a family noise that I'm making with my family face. Right. Like your, your problem is you like you just don't have the executive function left. Yeah. Yeah, the end of the night, or the so yeah. So something that I'm trying is thinking about, like, what are like that you're rotating and to do lists, parts of my self care routine that I can push earlier in the day, like so I taught yesterday, like, Tuesdays and Thursdays are just brutal for me, like I had a schedule where I don't start teaching before 11am, right, because of my problems with insomnia. And that's great. And the way my semester worked out, I don't like to eat your knee back to back to find a very stressful to run from one classroom to another because you know, people always come up after class, and they want to talk to you. And I like to have a chance to get my head in the game. Second class. So my teaching schedule this semester is a teach from one until 230. Okay, great. And then I teaching that for until 530. And that's a bad time, right? Students don't want to be in class from four until 530. It's like neither the evening nor the daytime, right? You actually wrote a blog post on how can I a bunch of years ago, and it was called 4:30pm is the worst time in the world, right? academic events gets scheduled, right? Because it's not in your work day, but it's not at nighttime. It's like, Bitch, please like it's in Purgatory, right? This time where like, you're hungry, and you're tired, and you don't want to do anything, right. So I teach during that time. And when I come back, I guess this is about transitions to like that episode worried about transitions, where I will stagger out of my classroom, having like, erase the boards in the final class and like, talk to the stragglers, whoever, and I am so fortunate to have a TA working with me this semester. And she and I, Hi, Kelly debrief a little bit after class. And that's good, too. But I can barely count to potato at that point. And then they go back to my office, which is like, just one building overseas very close, and I climb the stairs to my second floor office, and I get in my office and I dropped my bag on the floor. And then I'm like, I have to take things out of the bag and put different things in the bag so that I can go home. Right, yeah. And then I sit down and read the New York Times for 10 minutes, which is like I want to go home. But I'm too tired. Yeah, pack my purse, like it was not a big purse I had yesterday, right, I have to take a little zipper like a pencil case bag that's labeled organized as and that was like the dongles. I need to attach my computer to the projection system and all of the rooms as well as all of my whiteboard markers. And now I have two pens in there too, because I pass the attendance sheet or have nobody has a pen. So what right and I like Kleenex and lip gloss in there, too. It's my like, but I have to leave it on top of my desk so that it's always there when I need to go teach, right? But to take that out of that I should take the attendance sheets out of my purse down and then oh, I should I don't know how I'm gonna fit my Tupperware back in this bag. And then I sit down to change my shoes and I'm so tired once I sit down. I don't want to get up again. Right? Yes, and I'm
laughing because it's just like I've done exactly the same thing. Why are you still here?
Yeah, like and Tom will text me God bless him the hero in this family. I want the world to know that he listened to our first episode of the season and he feels that he came across as kind of a buffoon and I don't think so. So if anybody wants to write in and affirm only my view that Tom is a hero, right? Like hero who's had like too many surgeries and accidents and that he is the best person in his family. Yeah, so he will text me off and at like 540 and be like, Hey, I guess you're done class.
You're back in your office
hope you're packing up to walk home. And he's like not doing it. Doing it busy you know was I get stuck in my chair. I don't want to be at work anymore. No, I don't want to put my bag together to walk home and then I'm like, do I need the umbrella? Right? I didn't bring the headphones which means I'm going to have to walk home with like no podcast to listen to I guess I'm never going home again. Yeah, just sit there like the problem is going to solve itself like headphones will manifest if I just sit staring out the window at the geese. malevolently flying past my window like that somehow I will get more energy like but I won't because I'm also hungry. Yeah, right. leaving the office procrastination.
Yeah, well, and there's also like all and then there's the commute ah, Don't want to commute, like, whether it's walking or driving or taking public transit. You're just like, I don't want to drive home. Yeah. Like I don't like I'm gonna deal with traffic and I gotta go cross Key Bridge and I gotta.
Yeah, my commute home. I like it. Like I walk through like a big park and yeah, chill area and have a little bridge and angle the river like it is. And I love it. But I'm so tired. I can't leave my office like it is worse. It is like so. So last, and I'm like, absolutely exhausted, I managed to drag myself out. Like, I just like, oh, I only wasted half an hour sitting in my office hating my life. And I walked home, and Tom had supper ready. So because he's still home, you know, with the Busted Shoulder. He's going back to work on Monday, but also he had a gum transplant surgery last Friday. So he's in a whole new and different world of hurt. So the man cannot eat solid food. But he's been making the HelloFresh is for my kid and me. Oh, cannot cannot eat them. And he's cooking, right? So he's like, supper was ready. And I was like, great. And then I said, I need to go upstairs and change right away. Right? Like, because I had my work clothes on. And I thought, I'm really hungry. But if I sit down and eat this meal, I'm going to wearing my dress and my uncomfortable bra. And these earrings, four hours from now, and I will not go to bed on time. Right? Like I knew that. So I was like, well, while I'm still moving like, I'm just going to pop my shoes off my feet, you know, and instead of going straight through to the dining room, I'm just going to take a hard left, go up the stairs and put my track pants on. And do that. And I did that and that's like a better plan for me because that's one less thing. be resentful and procrastinate about at like 10 or 11 or one. But I was like so blitzed out when I came home that I like got my track pants on. And I got my cozy shirt and my like 35 year old club Monaco sweatshirt with the stains. But I changed my uncomfortable bra to a comfortable bra. And that kept me up last night. Because I was like I can't go to sleep because I still have this like underwire bra on. But I don't want to take both of these shirts off. So I just like wound up doing the thing. And this was so funny because like I put the cream on my arms. And I was already like that. And I was like off the stupid bra. So I did you know the high school chain maneuver where you like pull your arms inside, like shimmy out of your bra. Don't just leave that I have like sleeping bras that I wear. But I was like, fuck, you know, it's like so done. And then I still had to wait to take my makeup off. So maybe the next time I come home from school after teaching day, I will put my track pants on, change into my sleeping bra and also wash my makeup off, right I make the list of things to do before I start relaxing happen earlier in the cycle. So that like as the evening progresses, I have fewer and fewer things left. Like I'm not building to a new peak of to dues, right. I mean, it's just like I have to remember, just to do it right when I walk in the door because it is so tempting to stop because I want to but I have to try to remember it will be even harder to do it later later. Ya know? And so that's like a little bit about controlling my behavior. Like I wonder if in, in your scenario. It's like an issue now where you like you might be able to do some stuff like clean your, your CPAP machine because like you don't want to like die from a bacterial lung infection. No, you're like snoring but now you're dead. Right? Like, yeah, okay, super. Like, you don't want that to happen. But you're like, I really want to use the CPAP machine because I will wake up rested. And so will everybody else in the house. And, and like you have that as a goal. And it's like I think we're talking about in another one of our episodes about like, making things less hard to do.
Like, because if the problem is environmental, the problem is like it just means it has Shores is it that I tend to leave to the moment when I am the most tired. So what part of that can I transfer to a different part of the day, right? So part of that is like, like, it shifts the executive function requirements to a different part of the day when maybe you're better able to handle it, if you can just remember that it's like, this is something I'm doing for myself. It's hard. And the other part of it like for both of us, it's about setting boundaries with other people that we will respect and they will respect right. So that's like a little bit about the boundary of my house about like, we don't have difficult conversations after 9pm. Yeah, right. Because then everybody gets to round up and be especially like, cannot sleep. And we were all about like our kid has to go plug in their devices at a certain time. And if we have to remind them like more than once like in a week then there's there's going to be a privilege I guess taken away right because like there is a rule you are well able to follow it. I don't want to have to Do remember to remind you and to check up on that, right? And like my kid is very loud on the telephone to write or even like, they'll play the you know, they're doing in stores right now this rhythm game, which like goes to ching, ching, ching ching, and I make them put their headphones. Drives me crazy, but then they yell, yeah, the game, right. And that's not restful for me. Like, I'm no, I'm trying to have a relaxing bath right now and I can't because you're yelling, and I'm gonna murder you. Right. So like it's a little bit about
it's the same reason there's, yeah, it's the same reason I think I've said this before. I can't do yoga at home if there's anybody home.
Because yeah, absolutely.
Like, I will inevitably hear them, I will hear my I will hear my son going click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click as he plays Geometry Dash. Or I will hear my daughter yelling at her friends over Minecraft things. You know, and then it's like, this is not I like I'm in Downward Dog. And it's like, nope, nope. I wide Please be quiet. Yeah. And they think they are they really do think they are because that's another thing about ADHD that I read is that I'm I should talk I'm really loud. Like we literally have no idea how loud we are.
Sure that mean, I think that's ability regulator assumption that Yeah, that's right. Like an inattentiveness to your own sort of manifestation. Self sometimes, right? I mean, I think that's, that's very common, but everybody has to learn to manage their own Yes, volume level, right, it should be higher for you to do it. For them. I mean, you struggle enough, I imagine trying to control your own volume, as I do. With some of the things that I do as I struggle, I'm like, I can do this for myself that I can't do it for everybody else to write. And, and that's difficult when you require the cooperation of other people to respect your boundaries around things that you want to do. I know we talked about this in the pandemic about I really struggled. You remember, you were like, Oh, I like working from home because I get to do some laundry. And I get to do like this. And it sounds like I just want to go to the office where nobody can bother me about anything. Right. And I don't.
And that was my husband's. That was my husband, who was like, yeah, the hell out of here.
Yeah. So I mean, I think it's like that in the evenings too, when you're like, I would relax and but it's very easy for me to relax when everybody is living their lives in my face. Because I mean, one of the reasons I was wearing my noise cancelling headphones so much because of leaf blowers, right. But another reason was because my husband is loud on the phone, and my kid yells at the computer. But another reason was, I tune out distractions, right, it just throws me completely off my game, right? If the fridge is making a weird noise, and I can eat like 30 feet away from it and pull me out of whatever I'm trying to do, right, because I'm just a sort of spinless receiving machine that I respond to constantly, right. So that's difficult about about doing your own self care is it's hard to turn that vigilance off. And sometimes it's like, I need to take care of these people, or they will screw it up. But sometimes it's like, they are just living their life, that they keeps pulling my attention away from the thing that I am trying to do. And that's environmental. And there's like, not a lot we can do to control that. Like I got disrupted. The other day, I was trying to do something with my kid, I think we were discussing. They're taking a course called crimes against humanity, where they still have not committed any crimes, but they're studying right now. They are fine, but had to watch videos because they missed school with COVID. And so we were discussing the Milgram experiments and the Stanford Prison experiments. And I was like, Okay, finally, I get to teach stuff. And then I could hear this weird noise. And I was like, Hold on, I have to go deal with this. And it was Tom in the basement. Remember, he's just had major shoulder surgery and can't with his arms above his head with a corn broom, sweeping the basement. Stop, right. He's like, how did you hear me? I'm like, it was a weird scritch scritch toys and I thought the cat was destroying something. So I found the cat. It wasn't the cat. And I was like, Oh, God, damn, he's down there sweeping, right. So I had to confiscate the right. So but then it was like, I want to help my kid their homework. I also want to make sure they're not like going to read by doing too much because he doesn't like things to be untidy. And when I'm doing both of those things, and I'm switching tasks constantly now I'm getting more and more tired and it's less and less likely. I'm going to have the spoons to take my makeup off. Yeah. 11. Right. So these things pile up, but there's something that feels so good about just not doing things. Yeah. Right.
Oh my gosh, I would love to not do things. And I think that this is this is the thing that people don't understand a bout neurodivergent because then this is why we get called lazy is because we might not look like we're doing anything but our brains. And we've said this before our brains are in overdrive. Absolutely. Right. And so, like, it looks like I'm not doing anything in the evenings. But again, like, I'm wondering, as you said, I'm wondering about the kids, are they gonna have enough time to go to bed? Is this? You know, have we done? Have I done all the things? Is the dishwasher done? What do I need to do? Is the dog been walked as you get off the last time? Is this? That that's it's not nothing. Right. But there's there's the doing nothing for someone who is neurodiverse? Is the brain being given a break as much as the body? And that's so hard to find that time and space? Yeah. Because, you know, there there is almost, especially when you've got a family and people living their lives in your face, as you said, which is, you know, that's that's what people do there. Right. Yeah, that's, that's why we brought them into the world. Right, and why we welcomed them into our lives willingly. Yeah, but, but to then, you know, have have that space where it's like, okay, right now, there is literally nothing. And I'm finally not doing anything.
Yeah, right. Yeah. So sleep gives your body a break. You know, like, when you done too much walking, or like, your knees are too Clicky. Like, I just need to be moving around. And we're, you know, you're sore from something, your body's just like, I'm so tired, and it gets that break when you're sleeping. But your brain needs some open space. Right? Your brain needs some unstructured time. It's like a little bit like dog training, I think. Right? Like, so when you're like trying to train a puppy. You keep the training session short, because it's hard for dogs to pay attention, right? Yeah, behave well, right. So like, you do a really intense session that lasts five minutes. And then you have to give the puppy like, 15 minutes of just farting around right? of reward, because they're like, the puppy cannot focus forever. And then you're going to start to have some conflict, and they're not going to like the training anymore. And the training should be fun. Right? And I think our brains are a little bit like that, too, in the sense that it's not that you train really hard five minutes as the and then you sleep. And then the minute you wake up, you start training again, because little brains need a little break. Right? Yeah. And so I think we try to get those breaks for our brain by undermining our bodies. Yes, times, right. Yeah. So it's like, Finally it is quiet. In the House, everybody is like tucked up into their room and the pets have been dealt with. And there's nothing left to do. But oh my gosh, I have such a busy day tomorrow that I will not have any free time until 7pm. So I'm going to rest my brain right now by letting my brain do what it wants to do. And what it wants to do. Right is like your vertex, like hit when spelling bee or 2048, or like, whatever it happens to be, or I just want to sit there and draw like, sometimes I'll be up until one in the morning drawing something I can see from my vantage point tucked into bed, right? Like for no reason other than it's an absorbing activity, and we're getting better at it. But I'm getting more and more tired, because my time feels so crunched. It's easier for me to go to bed Friday night when you know, sadly, I don't plan, right, because I don't feel that the time for my brain to just like, chill out is so scarce that I have to grab it, where I can write like, it's like shower thoughts. So it's like a well known thing that creative thinking requires some unstructured time, right? Like Charles Darwin famously going for his walks, right, or, you know, it's writers like sit down in the early morning and they get a bunch of writing done, and then they stop, right, and they spend the rest of the day not writing so that their brains can kind of reload or process stuff in the background. And I think like for us to manage our, our moods, and, you know, our sense of well, being in the world. It's not just like we need, you know, food that that keeps us from being malnourished or exercise that keeps us from atrophying or enough sleep to keep us from having like, giant baggage is under our eyelids. But it also our brains need some space to not be learning how to heal or sit or retrieve. Right? Yeah. And it's too bad that we often try to grab that at the expense of our own sleep or that we do stuff like don't clean our CPAP machines or don't take our makeup off or like, you know, keep the uncomfortable bra on for years. Like it's completely self defeating. But your brain is begging for help. And the help is like Please don't make me follow through decisions right now. I need some time is the goal for us would be some environmental things were like, like just take my makeup off when I come home at 6pm Because like let's be honest, I'm not going back out. Right? I'm just not. So
this isn't the worst It's like, you come home. And it's the end of the day. And Cassie is like, Oh, can we go to Zoo? Do this? No, no. Well, why not? It's open till eight. No,
no, no, no, waiting a couple hours before going is actually not better. Right? I'm just like, not going to do that, right. So some of our stuff is environmental like knowing like what we can do earlier in the day, or when we have more spoons so that we can have some more free time later. And part of it is going to be about finding some boundaries or expressing, you know, or holding some boundaries around other people's expectations of us in time that maybe they are experiencing as their free time. But we cannot experience as our own free time, right? Because it is very difficult for us to just say, I'm going to compartmentalize that and not pay attention to it. Right. Maybe if it was a scheduled item, maybe if it was travel, we could forget about it. Right. I mean, but it's, it's really hard. It's really hard to express that need to people and ask them to respect it when they don't. They don't have that need. Yeah, themselves, right. And especially when we're sort of socialized to within the four walls of the home. It is not acceptable generally. And this is internalized in most women, it is not acceptable to tell your family just fuck off and leave you alone. Mommy needs some me time.
Yeah. Well, and that's why that's what's been really hard for, for me the hardest part of the pandemic and even even coming out of it is that I think I've talked about this before, I don't go to conferences anymore. Yeah. And that was literally just about the only space where I would come back at the end of the day. And I literally didn't have to worry about anything. Yeah, right. Yeah. Like, you know, it was it used to be in those the joke, right? You go to conferences in your, like, 20s. Or when you're a grad student, and you just like, are you to stay out as late as I want. Because nobody, you know, and sleep in. And now I'm just like, Oh, yeah. Like no rule. 70s bed times nine.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm gonna sleep so well. I could go to bed so early, and I'm gonna order room service. And then when I'm done the dishes in a hallway. It's yeah, one way. Yep.
Yep. And you know what, there's nothing I can do. It's like, I don't have to take the kids anywhere. I don't have to worry about picking them up from school. I don't have to worry about what we're going to eat for dinner. I don't like all that is someone else's problem. So clearly, because I am nowhere near my house. Any
of Yeah, it's a sort of Jesus take the wheel moment there. You know, it's like, well, you know, I've on the plane, right? I'm on the shuttle. I'm at the hotel. Oh, this is the schedule, right? I'm just drifting in like somebody else's plans. And it's great. Because like, and you're, you're able to focus in a kind of unitary way. Right? I wrote about this. I'm hooked. And I a long time ago, there are people who like to bring their families to conferences and people who really want to go with their families. And I am generally in the latter camp, because I do not want to multitask in my brain. And I will tell you, Lee, and everyone I am going to a conference today. I am Yes, right after this meeting. You and I are in right now. I have eight minutes and then I will be in a department meeting for two hours. And then I will get in my car with a tiny suitcase. Right and overnight bag and I will drive to Toronto. And I get two nights in a hotel in Yorkville. Do you want to know, Lee? What hotels are going for in Toronto right now? Oh, God. How much is $60
a night? Oh, that's actually I live in the DC area. So
expensive to be okay. Right? Right. Okay. It felt outrageous to me.
I just looked like,
take a pint of plasma to if you want it. I'm just about it. But I know that once I get in the car and start driving, even if I hit rush hour on the 401, which I will because it's Friday afternoon. I don't have to think about anybody except myself. Yeah, for two and a half days. It's going to be amazing. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. And I'll tell you what, when I get in that hotel, I'm going to walk off and put pajamas on that as well, probably after supper, but you know what I mean? That's what I'm I'm looking forward to is like thinking about MGM hotels. Because I am not like once you leave the conference sessions for the day and you go back to your hotel room. You don't have to worry about anybody else's tasks, right? No more tasks, and it's just a few years. So yes, that's the dream. Maybe. I guess we would we would like to hear if any of our listeners have stories of the perverse outcome rather than And then time, procrastination. We'd love to hear anybody's like tips and tricks about that or just sheer commiserations. And I think we should mention the, the emails that we've been getting have turned double meta now. Right? It's like now people write us incredibly long emails that we adored, who halfway through an incredibly long email will say, I know that you said that everybody writes incredibly long emails. And that then they write you incredibly long emails where they acknowledge that they know that they're reading an incredibly long email. And here I am doing it whole munity of remarkably self conscious, and really quite lovely people who write to us about how long your email is going to be. And sometimes their discussions of why their email is going to be so long are in and of themselves quite lengthy. Yeah. which I appreciate. You're my favorite things to read are these incredibly new Z long, all over the place, very ADHD, like I cannot express how much I adore reading these emails. Because that's what I read. Oh, sorry. One more sorry, is that I've been complaining about desire to learn a long time somebody in my faculties assigned to help me. I wrote her a very long email about that was witty and fun, because I am trying to be humorous about my hatred of this software tool. And she wrote back, she said, Oh, don't worry about writing long emails, because I feel embarrassed that I write long email or long. Like, wait, is not a compliment. Hold on? Just like, would you hear? Or is that solidarity? Or is that like, Oh, God, at least somebody is like, even worse at this than I am. Thank you.
I think it's remember I remember when you were telling me always look at the try to try to take it in the most generous way possible. I would, I will, I will turn that right around on you is like take that in the most generous way possible. I feel like that is
right back a very long now in response to that one. Thank
goodness. All right. Well, because you have a department meeting and I have a daughter to pick up it and lunch to buy her because anyways, whatever.
Well, and you know what, because it's still the middle of the day. We're not going to procrastinate our way. Yeah, no, we're gonna get it
done. We're just gonna get into what we have to because I feel like this is these. These are the things that like, you know, I don't pick her up, then I get in trouble from the school and from her. Don't feed her then. Yeah, there's hell to pay for that. And you if you don't show up to department meetings, I'm I don't know how many people would be texting you and be like, where are you?
Where are you? Yeah, I'm not insubstantial number.
So we have these are these are things was very clear external
motivators? Absolutely. Yes.
But we promise or maybe not like we promised to try to bring another one to you next week. Best we can all willing, God willing. But again, you can email us at all the things firstname.lastname@example.org I am ready writing on Twitter. And Amy is did you want on Twitter, and you can always find us there as well. The blessing that is 140 characters. Or at Emory, it's 1880 280 Oh, yeah, they doubled 200.
Tweets, storms are just even more annoying. But you can always find our rambling thoughts there. And Amy complaining about DTL and interacting and interacting with their president who doesn't ever do anything about it? Oh, no. Funny. All right. And so yeah, so we promise to try to see you next week. And, you know, try to get some sleep.
Try to get some sleep tonight. Your makeup off everybody. You can do it. You could do it.