Hey everyone. Today we have Sandra Nelly, who also happens to be a Cubicle to CEO regular listener. So excited to have you, Sandra on the show. Welcome.
Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, huge fan. And yeah, thanks for the opportunity.
Oh my gosh, of course. And I was telling Sandra I'm really excited to dive into today's conversation, because it is a topic we've never covered on this show before, and Sandra was giving me this great context for how you can utilize what you hear today as a tool at your disposal for helping you make decisions in your business, or get more clarity in certain aspects of your business, which you will absolutely highlight in our talk today.
So to give our listeners some context, Sandra, we're talking about your work as an astrologer, and specifically using Astro cartography for business in the context of business. So maybe just give a brief introduction to how can astrology be applied in the context of business, and for those who may be brand new to astrology as a whole, like what defines astrology?
Yeah, sure. I mean, we all obviously come to this earth and have a birth time and a birth date, and it's very unique to us. And obviously the planets when you know when we're born, they are in a certain constellation. And so all of us have a unique birth chart. There's tons of tools out there that can be easily accessed, like astro.com for example, or Astro seek, you can just Google birth chart. Or natal chart is what we refer to it as well. So you can look that up. There's obviously lots of different planets at play, so I'm not going to bore everyone with all the nitty gritty and all the details.
There's obviously so much to look at with astrology. There's also like timing and transits that come into play. So there's so much, but your birth chart is always the same. That's what it is, and it never changes. So it's only like what's happening in the world, kind of, you know, to make it really simple, and your business as well, has a birth chart. So I think that's kind of what I'm here for, and we're trying to explain so it's really those two tools that you as a business owner, as a founder, future business owner, have at your disposal.
So you can really look at your birth chart and look at, you know what clients, for example, or how you can speak to your clients. So essentially, your business also has a birth chart and to determine the timing of when to sort of look that up, or it's like the time of incorporation. So obviously, like getting it registered with a government institution would be a good time. Hopefully you have the exact timing when you purchase your web domain. So actually not launching your site because you've already, obviously taken some steps ahead of that and had that intention.
There's probably lots of behind the scenes that was going on. So really, those are, like the two things, obviously, if you don't have any idea, or you know, your business has been long established, and you don't have any of these records, you can obviously just, you know, figure out, go back through your emails, maybe pinpoint a date when you the intention to start your business was sort of created. And then use 12pm for example. But obviously, the more detailed, the more exact you can get, the better, because your birth chart, or the your business birth chart, will actually show way more detailed information. In that case,
So fascinating to me, because until I, you know, sat across from you today to have this conversation, I've only ever thought about birth charts in the context of, yeah, your own personal life. And it's so interesting to think about, and it makes sense too, because so many of us treat our businesses as living, breathing entities, that they would have their own story and their own birth chart, if you will. So what are some of the things that people like? Let's say they are able to find when that intention for their business was started, or when they officially registered their business and they received their birth chart. What are some of the things they can now look for within that to incorporate astrology as part of their business? Can you give some use cases and examples of that?
Yeah, for sure. So marketing and messaging will be a really big one. You can pinpoint who your clients are, so what they're looking for. So for example, you know, my business might have people who are looking more for like educational content. They're, you know, very communication driven people, while others might have people who are very like conservative or really innovation oriented. So all of that can come through, and then obviously that helps you, in turn, to tailor your marketing and your messaging finances as well how your business makes money. There's lots of aspects that you could look at in that respect.
So yeah, without going into the details. And obviously there's so much and then you as a founder, unless we're talking about a huge corporation where, obviously there's a, you know, CEO, and many instances of leadership teams. So. You have, as a founder, your own birth chart, and that should also come into play, kind of to paint the full picture, especially also, like in terms of leadership, how you can interact with your employees, you know, things like that. Also, I specialize in Astro cartography, and hopefully we can talk about that as well later, but without, you know, giving too much away.
Essentially, it's your birth chart overlaid over the map of the world. And there's specific lines, ACG lines, or Astro cartography lines. It goes way more granular. So there's parans, which are like latitude lines, and a lot of other different techniques and other things we look at. But yeah, we could, for example, you know, see a line that's really good for your business, but you don't necessarily have any intention of going there. You don't live there. You're far away. But you might, for example, find that a lot of your clients or podcast guests come from that region, and then, you know, that kind of the explanation, why? Because you have some, like, really good kind of lines going through that area.
I'm so excited to dig deeper into the Astro cartography piece, but before I do, I just wanted to real quick circle back on one of the use cases you just mentioned, because I find it so interesting. You mentioned that you know, looking or using astrology in your business, you can help define things like how your business makes money.
Do you have an example of either someone you know or even yourself that was previously operating their business under a different business model, or selling certain services or products that maybe didn't quite align with their birth chart. And then after learning how to use this as a tool, they actually shifted how their business made money and was able to see vast improvements. Do you have any any sort of examples like that?
Yeah, so I mean in terms of finances, there's a few examples. So I know a lot of people who have discovered that their audience is actually way more interested in innovation and like different ways of sort of paying or for their for their services. So I have, for example, work with someone who has had lots of success with moving to a more subscription based membership model, rather than, you know, kind of like a one to one, sort of like readings or sessions or coaching sessions. In that case, there's obviously also the people that have discovered that their audience is more looking for, for learning and teaching, so have moved more into that area.
And doesn't mean you have to abandon all your other offerings. It's just, you know, another tool to unlock. How can I even better serve my clients? What are they looking for? Who are they? And again, coming back to the marketing. So both for your business, you can unlock, you know, a lot in your business, birth chart, but also in your personal one. So also, even as a founder, speaking of personal branding, for example, obviously, when you're creating your logos or things like that, you you know this design theory that comes into play, Color Psychology, things like that.
But actually, Astrology can be a really good way to also, it's actually called Astro branding. There's a lot of people that specialize in that that, you know, you can let the sort of the main aspects that you need to look at from your birth chart come into play, which colors or which kind of feelings should be communicated through your branding, and also how you communicate with with clients, or, you know, the world, but then also, again, kind of coming back to who are your clients, what would they also, you know, be looking for? So, kind of letting that all come into play.
So, so fascinating. Like you said, there's many, many facets and details that go into person's unique reading and how they apply this tool. Let's talk more about Astro cartography, because I know that's where you really light up, and that's your specialty. How can you, well, first of all, you kind of already briefly gave us the definition of, you know, overlaying astrology onto like an actual map of the world. If there's any further context about this field that you think is important for our listeners know, feel free to share that.
But in addition to that, how can Astro cartography help determine good locations to either start or grow a business or, like you said, have successful business deals, collaborations, whatnot?
Yeah. I mean, there's so many use cases. So first of all, there's obviously so much to look at. So we would first look at, you know, someone's birth chart, and it's Astro cartography is a trending topic. It's all over Tiktok. But you have to be mindful, there's so much more than just, like the regular lines that you can access on some of the tools. I was just like referencing. You also want to look at Paran.
So they're like additional sort of latitude lines. Because if you look at just like a line, and you know, some, you know, some people will say, if you go to a Venus line, you'll find the love of your life, or, you know, so that doesn't necessarily mean that will happen. Also, obviously you don't necessarily have to be on a line. Actually, sometimes you might want to be further away, maybe still in or but so. Within the vicinity, so you get those energies. But being on a line can sometimes be super intense, so it's not even always recommended.
But yeah, we have professional software where we can pull up those parans and additional sort of techniques to look at. Is the location, maybe the right one? And I have a lot of clients that you know might be torn between, should I, you know, should I go to New York, or should I go to LA like, which one is the better option for me personally, but also for my business? Like to establish it, for example.
So often it's like, we'll look at a few locations, and, you know, the number one thing is, there's never 100% perfect location that will, you know, meet every single goal and you'll always be happy, but we can try to get it as perfect as possible, and the way it works without going too technical, we look at relocated charts. So as I was saying, your birth chart never changes, but when you apply different locations of the Yeah, it just looks different. So you might you know, without, again going too much into details, the 12 houses in the birth chart, they might just have different signs assigned to them, and planets might move out of a particular house, which stands for something, into a different house.
And sometimes that's what you want to do, like because, again, without going too much into the technical aspects, there are certain planets you want in certain houses rather than others, to make things better, and also for career and business, there's, you know, also different houses you want to look at, so there's a lot of details. So usually when I do a reading, it's like, you know, first we do the prep work before the reading, and then we do an hour reading. There's obviously lots of back and forth, lots of questions.
And obviously there's also, like, things like, you know, like, outside of Astro cartography that you want to consider, like, you know, if it's a reading, where should I travel or where should I move to, you also want to, you know, just ask, do you want to live in a hot climate or a cold climate? Because obviously there's, you know, factors like that. Or some people might say, even though the map might show New York as the perfect location, they might not be wanting to live on the east coast at all because they don't like the snow, or their partner is, you know, tied to a different location. And you know, then there's like, looking something more closer to them that could be better, potentially.
So a use case for for business people is also, like, conferences. Is it worth for me to travel, you know, halfway across the globe to a conference? In that case, we could look at timing as well. So both a lot like, you know, everything shifts based on timing. So there could be, like, something really good happening in that area or in that city during that time or not. So, you know, could be in factor to determine. And then just looking at the lines on the Astro cartography map if that location is good or not. And then one thing also worth mentioning is remote activation.
So we'll often find people you know have, for example, like Greece, for example, could be a really great location for you, but obviously you're not in a position potentially to move there. I mean, unless you're a digital nomad, obviously, then you know, might be ideal to recommend you go there. But you can just use remote activation. So really you like bring that location and that flavor to you in a different way. So of course, food could be one thing. You might find that where you're located, there is someone that comes from Greece that could be a holder of great connections for you.
And like, you know, introduces to, like, a perfect podcast guest or client in your case. So, you know, there's, you know, different different things at your disposal, in that sense.
So cool. And the thing that kind of came up for me as you were talking, and this is coming maybe more from the lens of someone who is not as familiar with astrology, but certainly, like brand new to Astro cartography, what you're talking about when you say, you know this location could be perfect for you. And I know you also did give the caveat that technically, no location is 100 but like, as close to perfect, maybe, as it could be most ideal, I understand that what you're saying with you know, their depending on the location, the different houses you know, might show up differently. And like you said, we don't have time today to get into every single house.
But could you maybe give us, like, one or two examples of how a house might shift based on a location and how, like, what tangible impact does that have to make a location ideal or not ideal for someone?
Yeah, sure. I mean, again, there's so much so depending on, for example, if you have a day or a night chart that depends on your birth time and like, where the sun was setting at what time there's certain planets that are better for you or worse for you? So, you know, as astrologers, we first tried it through the relocation, potentially shift things around, and figure out which house can we position a planet in a certain location?
And you know, if you're just moving a few miles away, obviously it's sometimes very tricky. Here, because the more distance you get, the more you know, likely it's it can change. And for certain planets, there are better houses. So we'll look at that as well. And like, can we like position something, you know, in a better house? And so for business, specifically, for example, the seventh house is really good, because that's contracts and partnerships and contact so really like your clients.
So you know, if you have a really good planet for your chart in there, then you know, that would be really good. The second house is around finances and kind of how you make money. So that's definitely also one to look at. So I mean, there's many. The 10th house it's the kind of traditionally perceived that the career house is the most public house. There's something called the MC line. So a lot of people have it in the 10th, but some will have it in the ninth or 11th. It's just like you get a different kind of influence. So for example, you as, you know, trying to build a personal brand, or be more public facing, or even launching a podcast. You know, it's worth looking at that.
And, you know, like, if you want to build, like, a big following community, maybe shifting your line, your MC line, into the 11th house, might actually be really beneficial, versus keeping it in a tent, which is traditionally the kind of the more where most people are. But it's really, you know, it depends on the goal and this situation, and usually with the Astro cartography readings, there's definitely, you know, kind of, like, the first things we would ask is, like, what are your goals? What are you looking to achieve? And of course, there, you know, there might be two, three goals.
Like, you know, I want to, you know, move where my career will flourish. But also I'm looking for a partner. So like, how can we, you know, combine the two. So we'll look at like where that could be most likely to happen. But, you know, it's your birth chart. Is what it is. So we'll we work with what you have and and then try to figure out the kind of the most ideal location.
So when you're talking about someone moving to a certain location, or, like you said, maybe even remotely activating attributes of a certain location and bringing that into into their business to move an ideal planet into a certain house. If an ideal or favorable planet is moved into a certain house for you, what does that mean? Does that mean? It just makes it easier, like whatever you do within that house comes more naturally, or is, is it applied in a different way?
Yeah, so each house stands for something. So the planet might, you know, activate or work better because it's in a better house, for example. So there's, like, you know, planets essentially have an house that they belong into, if you will, as well. So if you can get that into one of these, for example, but there's a lot of additional things, like the angles to other planets as well and how they're positioned.
So that's why, I don't know if you've ever seen a birth chart, but you'll see, like, a lot of lines, kind of in the middle, where it kind of shows you how you know the planets are in constellation with other planets. So that's like another thing to look at. Some of them are more beneficial and some of them are not. So there's a lot to kind of consider. Generally, when doing like, you know, an astro cartography reading, we try to at least pinpoint some locations that are of interest.
So we're not looking at the whole map, because obviously there might be some areas that are much, much better, but you would never want to move there for whatever reason. So often it's like, recommended to look at two to four or five locations at max, because it's like I was saying there's a relocated chart for each so, you know, I definitely do a lot of that in the pre work before going into but you know, sometimes things between, you know, booking the session, and between the session actually taking place, things change. So, you know, I'll always check like, have your goals change.
Or, you know, you might have stated, I want to move to Spain, but now you did some research, and the visa situation is not looking good, so that's no longer the case. So we'll look at something else. So obviously, you know, there's, you know, and as I was saying, there's also the aspect of what climate, for example, or some people are, like, I definitely need to be in a big global hub, like New York or London or like, I'm not moving to like a smaller city. Others prefer that, you know. So there's that.
And then also intuition, like, you know, there might be two locations that look pretty much the same. I mean, there's, we have some tools at our disposal to look at it even in more detail, in the software to really say, okay, out of these two, even though they're pretty much the same, I would recommend, if I were you this one, because here's like, even a more favorable aspect or midpoint at place, but yeah, so there's obviously also, like, intuition, like, we'll give you all we can.
But you know, if, for some reason, you're feeling drawn to New York versus LA, then you know, I personally would also choose that. And I, I have often been called to go to location before, even knowing all the details about Astro cartography, and then looking back, knowing what I know now, it's like, okay. That kind of makes sense why I wanted to go there. So that's obviously, you know, I would definitely use intuition as well.
That makes sense. It feels like you know what you learn here, like you said, it's a tool to help you, guide your decisions, but it's not a prescription, right? It's not a you must do this over this. I actually would love for you to use yourself as an example, because obviously you know yourself better than anyone else. Yeah, you mentioned just a moment ago. You know, there were times in your past where maybe you felt very called to go to a certain location, and then once you had the knowledge and the understanding of Astro cartography, you were able to better place where that feeling maybe came from.
Yeah.
Can you give an example of either a trip you took or a move that you made that was favorable for your business? Share why it was favorable for your business, and then maybe explain one factor related to your birth chart or your business birth chart that made it so?
Yeah. So again, every location has a different relocated chart, if you will. So there's, you know, and then on top of that, there's transits and secondary progression. So things are constantly shifting and moving. So it might also be that, you know, in, let's say, 2008 you a certain location would have been super favorable for you. But then in 2012 not so much anymore because of what was going on, and then maybe again in 2021 it would have been a perfect place to go again.
So there's obviously also that to keep in mind. I mean, for me personally, I have, you know, I was traveling the world as a digital nomad. So kind of, you know, as I was saying, I was going to places where I wanted to go, but then also where I felt like, oh, suddenly the urge to go, and I didn't really know. So then I looked at that. I also lived in Stockholm, Sweden for a year, and kind of was like, you know, it kind of was always in like, kind of on my bucket list. But, you know, I was like, I just felt like, at that point, the time was right, and I had so many business opportunities.
And just like career opportunities come up there. And even after I left without doing any outreach, just the connections I had built there, and, you know, through word of mouth and people I worked with there, they kept referring me to their coworkers, friends, you know, contacts. And even though I was no longer in Sweden, far, far away from Sweden, I was still getting all that business from there, and it's just essentially the lines and the brands that I have in there based on my birth chart, they speak to, like a big social network. They kind of like reinforce that word of mouth aspect, great place for career, very like career focused destination.
And I worked really, really hard there and a lot. So while in other locations, it can be a bit more peaceful and more quiet, I also felt the urge at that point to go to Vancouver, BC in Canada on the West Coast. And there, actually I was really looking for social connections and also friendships. And I, to this day, have some of my best friends there. They have obviously moved around as well now, but I always go back to see whoever's left there.
And yeah, it was a very social year that I spent there, both personally, but also going to a lot of networking events, just like making so many business connections, I I tend to like to work from home or just like, on my laptop, but actually, like, sought out, like a female only co working space there where, you know, just like, which completely was, you know, different to what I prefer. And obviously, through that, made a lot of connections. And, yeah, so lots of things.
Yeah, that's super helpful, I think, to our listeners who are newer to this subject, to be able to hear kind of like a tangible example of someone who's lived out that and how it impacted their business. I find it really interesting, especially what you were saying about how you know locations that could be good for you at a certain point in time may not be that way forever. So even what you mentioned about living in Sweden for only a year, but still so many of your referrals come from that year that you spent.
So do you find there's any difference in how you approach or how someone could approach using this tool for guiding purely travel decisions? So like those short term visits versus an actual long term relocation.
Yeah. So, I mean, the concepts will be the same, it's still the same. Obviously, looking at timing will be a big factor. So, and you know, going into vacation or short term travel again, we there's certain house like, short term travel is the third house in your birth chart. Long Term travels, and nine. So we would look at that, for example, but then specifically timing so and also, again, your goal, like you might want to go to, like a place that's super calming and healing, maybe you're thinking about a retreat.
So we would look at maybe where those lines that support that are when looking at the map. And then we could look at, you know, additional factors, like timing. Thing, if you have the flexibility. But, you know, sometimes it's just like, I have a month off in October, and I'm going, where do I go? And then, you know, we we still look at all of that, and it still applies, but it's just like, different lines, different, you know, parents, different constellations, and again, coming back to the goal, do you want to you have, like, super action oriented vacation, being active all the time.
Do you want to go and, like, find your spiritual side? Then obviously we would look at, you know, where is that more likely? So kind of, yeah, similar, similar idea. But like, just looking at different things, amazing.
Well, it was super helpful. Even hearing like which, which houses speak like the actually house dedicated to long term versus long term travel. That's really, really interesting. I wouldn't have known that real quick.
You've been mentioning the word parans throughout our conversation. I just want to ask, because I'm sure I'm not the only one. What does that mean? What is the definition of that?
Yeah, so if, especially if you've seen tiktoks More recently, unless you follow someone who's like, really an established leader. You know, a lot of people will speak to like or just show the lines and their background and all the free tools you can access, they show that. So they're like, the the vertical lines that go top to bottom, usually those are your Astro cartography, or ACG lines for short. And then params are the latitude lines.
So they're, you know, they kind of often intersecting that. And it's, it's a similar thing where you don't necessarily need to be right on the line, like, you still get within, like, you know, both north and south. You still get, like, an influence. It's not as big as your Astro cartography lines. So you want to be within a certain range, or you might want to be out of them, for example. So, like, you know, because you often have a few, and then, you know, if one of them is maybe not as great, then you might want to be away from it and be outside of the orb of that, that paren line.
But, yeah, like, generally, when I was learning Astro cartography, that was kind of like, you know, what I was being taught that, you know, that's kind of how you distinguish if it's a professional doing the real thing, because, like, the actually have the book Jim Lewis, who is the founder of Astro cartography, he wrote this in the Yeah, in the 70s. So it's not that, that old. Yeah, he definitely speaks to that. And there's definitely a lot of additional factors that come into play. So a line might look great for you, but if the brands are not supportive and not helping or actually counterproductive, then you know, it's also not ideal.
That's a great layer of detail that now our listeners can know to look out for, right? How to discern who really knows their stuff, versus just someone who's casually talking about it, maybe on Tiktok.
Yeah, we use some like professional software, solar fire, solar maps is like the one of the big ones that I use. There's a few others. Solar fire seems to be the one with the most kind of features. There are a few others. They all look very old school. So that's a thing that we're hoping to hopefully get resolved soon. But there are free tools that I was mentioning to some extent.
You can see the parents not as detailed, and it will not be what we're seeing. We're seeing way more. But you can on some of them, select like, additional information, and it's not as easy for us. We go on the map. We can see them all in the software, but you can definitely pick a certain location, and then it will show you like, if you click additional details, what else is going on there. What are the brands?
Okay, that's super helpful to know. I want to end our conversation on a hot take, because I feel like a great person to ask this. Oftentimes, as business owners, we end up tripping ourselves up because we get into these stages of analysis paralysis. And I can totally see how someone either hiring an expert like you to help with this, or trying to endeavor learning this on their own, could maybe get caught up in obsessing over right place, right time in their lives, right and constantly trying to physically move themselves, or perhaps change direction to try to be in the right place at the right time.
Yeah.
So my hot take question for you is, how much impact do you think nailing Right Place Right Time truly has on the success of your business? Is it more what you would consider the cherry on top the sprinkles, the icing on the cake, or do you feel like it really has significant impact if you don't align with Right place, right time.
Well, I mean, you know, obviously doing what I do, I do believe that it is, you know, true, because it's been tried and tested. I have gone through it myself. And obviously, you know everyone I learned from, and you know clients and whatnot, but obviously you want to, again, kind of consider external factors, like, if you know you need to go to location, but it's just not doable, or it's not the right place, then obviously, you know, you pick what is doable and maybe looks best in terms of, like, if you have two, three different choices. Is based on Astro cartography and whatnot, but it's, you know, you have to kind of be realistic as well, right?
So, like, if you're not going to move abroad, because that's where the best place is, and, you know, we wouldn't necessarily even have to look at that. Like, that's why I was like, saying, usually we would just, like, take into account what is feasible. And, yeah, intuition, as I was saying, is a big part I believe in that personally myself, I always follow, like, my intuition as well. But yeah, the people that you know that that are in the field, we travel to our lines, and we experience things.
And for business specifically, like you know there, it could take time for the full impact to be felt. And I don't want to go back to, like, finding love on a Venus line, but that's really like something. It's not like you show up there and immediately you'll find, you know, the love of your life. So same with a business, it could take months for it to, like, kind of evolve. And, you know, really show and you know, like, finding clients takes time. Like, you know, if you move to a new place, getting the word out, unless you're doing, like, paid ads and already doing that ahead of time, like, obviously it just like, naturally, will take time.
So it will be a beneficial location for you. And I'm 100% convinced it will, you know, if there's, like, a good spot for you, it will definitely make it easier and help you, but you still have to put in the work and take all the actions that are needed, and it might just take time. So thank you. That's great. Just show up there and everything will be great.
No, I think that's such an important reminder to end on, because the same is true, like with any tool that we use in our business, right? And I love from the very beginning of our conversation, how, even before we hit record, how you've really framed this as an additional tool that people can add to their toolbox to be able to, like, you said, See more success in business. So, I mean, you got me all sorts of curious.
Now I'm thinking through like, because, you know, I I recently got back from the south of France, and like, that's an area that I feel really called to move to for a year to learn the language, or even thinking about next year as I'm planning you know which conferences I speak at or attend, kind of thinking through this lens in a way that I hadn't before.
So I'm sure there's many others who feel the same as me, and if they want to learn more about Astro cartography, or if they want to hire you to work with you, to help them read their own charts, where can they go? How can they connect with you Sandra?
Sure. So my website is sandranelly.com so super simple, n e double l y. I also have, like, a bio side link. So it's bio.sitetakeoffwithastrology. I have a bunch of sub stack guides and articles that you can access there. You can go to my Instagram, which is at Astrology Ventures, so like adventures or like ventures in the business context, but astrology in front of that.
And yeah, if you go to my bio site or to my website, you can find all the links, and yeah, would love to work with you. So feel free also to reach out on any of the channels. I'm always happy to answer questions. And yeah, spread the message around astrology and Astro cartography,
Amazing. Well, we'll make sure to drop all those links for you below in the show notes. So make sure you click over say hi to Sandra. Thank her for her time and sharing her expertise with us today. Sandra, thank you for joining us.
