love it. I love it. Well, as we were talking before this episode got rolling, we were talking about our own personal growth trajectory is kind of catching up on what we've both been up to in our own worlds. One thing that I learned very on our when I started the Business of Architecture, since we're talking 10 years ago, right 10 plus years ago, was I went into my mindset, going into interviewing other architects, consultants, thought leaders, I thought, you know, if I can only figured out what it is that they're doing, then I can replicate their success. So I thought that the key was in acquiring some sort of special knowledge. Like if I just had that puzzle, though, like if I just could unpack the things, what are the ABCDE f g things that I needed to do? And very, very quickly, I suddenly realized that it wasn't about the ABCD things. Like those things were important. And sure they happened, but there was something underneath that. And it was their approach to life. It was the way they saw things. It was their perspective. It was how they viewed life. In other words, their mindset and their thoughts like what they thought about the world. So give you one example, to spark the conversation here. Five or six years ago, I had the opportunity to sit down with my top interview of all time that I've ever wanted to do was like I wanted to get our guests on the podcast. I'm like, Well, I can just get Mr. Gensler on the podcast dude, that would be so epic. He's like that, yeah, heighten of architectural business from what he's created. You know. As a matter of fact, I was out there in your neck of the woods in Denver for the AI convention that year and Art was doing it actually wasn't the ad convention. It was another event that the AI had put on. And an art against her was doing a presentation there. I thought now's the perfect time. So I scheduled I called the office, they hooked me up with an interview, in person interview in there against their Denver office, we kind of were in a little corner. While he was visiting the office, I had an opportunity to interview him. But the one thing that stuck out with me because I'm thinking, how did this guy go from basically being a sole practitioner, to having a company with 4000 plus employees, 40 offices around the world doing the kind of work they're doing? It's impressive. Now, of course, there's a number of there was a lot of fortune that happened in that. In other words, like when he started his practice, they went through several booms, they went through the office and tears boom, which was his niche. So certainly, there was some fortunate winds behind his sails that push that forward. But what I know is there was a lot of other architects at the same time that's had those very same fortunate wins. But what was the difference? That allowed Gensler to grow into the behemoth that it was, as opposed to these other firms that stayed small and identified was one simple thing. It was that art was not afraid to let go. Okay, so what do you got he valued he valued business. And whenever he wanted to grow the practice, he did it, he wanted to give people opportunities. He's not, he's not an ego guy. Like if you sit down with them, he's a tall tower and commanding presence, but he's very, like, when I talked to him, I was just some unknown podcaster. To him, he didn't know who the heck I was, maybe I was someone from a local TV show. Here's the guy. He's the founder of a billion dollar architectural business. He's accomplished a lot in his life. And he was just very unassuming, very down to earth. You know, he's like a salty those type of guy. And I could tell in the way he talked with me. So as he recounted the growth of the firm, he talked about how people would like people to kind of reach that point in the firm where they wanted to grow on the hit a glass ceiling. And he'd be like, hey, you know what we're, um, this was when he was in San Francisco, like, yeah, we're doing a project down in Denver, what if we just send you out there start up a new office. And so they kind of grew like that, because he was willing to give people growth opportunities. So the key here is that it's not it's not the tactic would be sending someone in starting a new office. But that's not what drove it, what drove it was art's inner essence of wanting to empower other people. So it was his thought and his mindset around that.