I'm not sure of the, yeah, I'll have to send that to you the exact time. I think it's going to be more in the evening. Pacific. Are you in? Is Utah and Pacific? Or which Mountain Time? Oh, mountain time. Okay, so it's going to be a little bit on the late side. I think it's like it's seven or something. Is this circle, right? But I can't, I'm not sure. I have to find there's a I have it someplace. I'm not sure where it is. Um, yeah, so, yeah. So we have it just to go through. So we're building the empathy movement. So I'm setting the stage that this is part of building an empathy movement. You know that make empathy a primary personal and cultural value. And, you know, get some notes. And that's the mission, you know, of our of the empathy center, and that this presentation is about defining empathy in the context of the empathy circle and this and and that there's many benefits to empathy, that, you know, stronger relationships, better conflict resolution, improved teamwork, effective leadership, greater social can cohesion. I mean, it's just a lot of really benefits, but that there's a lot of recent criticisms coming out. You know about empathy, the against empathy, these different books and dimension, Elon Musk, you know, being critical of empathy. So just setting up the you know that there's kind of this negativity out there and and the dark side of empathy, which is, I don't know if you've seen that one, but so I'm an academic. You read it. I haven't read it. I haven't I have an interview with the author. He was willing to do an interview, so, you know, he's just saying. So there's all these different criticism your empathy can fuel revenge. When people deeply empathize with victims, they become more aggressive towards the people they perceive as the perpetrators. And I think that this is where the the holistic empathy comes in, that if you're empathizing for one side, you're not empathizing for the other. So it's not a problem with empathy. It's a problem with a lack of empathy between all the participants. And also, it was a big point with Kevin, you know, in his article was, it was all about, you know, the sort of the woke philosophy is very victim based, you know, it's like singers, oppressor, victim, oppressor, and it brings you into the Drama Triangle, which I think we've talked about, you know that? And it's really empathy, listening to all the sides is what brings you out. But that's, you know, I don't say that here. It's just the so I've been just setting the stage for all the different criticisms. You know, the sin of empathy. Empathy demands that we enter someone's emotional world so fully, that we adopt their perspective on critically, which can lead us away from the truth and and I just get it, I get tickled here with Jeff Sessions, you know, what is empathy? And this was in Congress. So even in Congress, they had big discussions when Barack Obama was going to choose a Supreme Court justice that had empathy as one of their, their, their, uh, qualities. It really is just the Conservatives went kind of crazy about, you know, what is empathy, being very critical about it. And I said, this is sort of a side besides, but at that point, it would have been perfect to have had, like, a hearing about empathy, right? And describe, explain it, and actually have an empathy circle and explain that it's not again, it's again, he is concerned about, you know, victimization that you know, as the victims are going to get all the or people who are seen as victims are going to get all the attention. So, so anyway, I'm just setting it up, you know, kind of thick and heavy about all the criticisms, and then also, the current definitions are problematic. You know, there's a lack of consensus. You know, definitions are obviously not clear to people, as you just see from all these criticisms, it's sort of quite a mess. The academic definitions are right. Can be abstract. So effective and cognitive empathy, I think, are just very abstract terms that, you know, the average person is having difficulty understanding. So, you know, we need a clear and practical definition is kind of the point I'm making. So any comments up to this point,