Yeah, that's a good question. It kind of is tied into why I, like, chose to focus it on substance use. And part of it was like I was interested in that, but also feel like if I wrote what an abolition counseling actually looks like, it would really look at questioning like the core of our field, and for us to critically question, is this a system worth preserving? Is it something that can be reformed, or is it something that is carceral? Is tied into carceral systems, and so in the field of like substance use counseling, the role of counselors is definitely intertwined with the legal system. It's intertwined with policing. At least in my experience, the majority of the clients that I've had for substance use throughout my career have all been court ordered the treatment just kind of highlighting that interconnectedness. And so in terms of, like, how do we make abolition like, the first line of defense? Honestly, first thing is like, I feel like people need to read. I remember back in 2020, I had first, had always, like, vaguely heard of and knew a little bit about abolition, but I hadn't really, like learned what it was. I had, like, a little bit of hesitance with it, until, think it's actually Dr Rochelle Joe, current editor of the professional counselor, posted something on social media. Was just a book that was like, Right Right place, right time. And then I got interested in reading about abolition, particularly in a non academic kind of format. It was, we do this till we free us by Marian Cabo. And from there, I think that it just kind of made things click, like, when things, when systems are operating as they are, like, it made me like, critically question, like, what's the foundation of that system? So I think, like, a first step is first like, second step, actually, after reading, is to, like, critically question, what is counseling as a system in a field, on paper? And if we look at literature and definitions on like what counseling is, particularly look at like the American Counseling Association, how it defines counseling. It's something that many people will be drawn towards. It's focused on wellness. The definition also seems to focus on like social justice and things like that, and helping people. But when we look at like the actual practice and how this field is like, situated within larger systems, I think of sort of that second thing is to like, yeah, critically question, what is the nature of our field? How do we play a role in other carceral systems? How do we play a role in social dominance and control? And that probably not probably it definitely leads to some uneasy feelings as we kind of, like, look at the reality of like, what we're doing. And so I think it really involves some active deconstructing of what we think about in terms of what counseling traditionally has been and what it could be, and really questioning ourselves, like, is this something that needs to exist more further? Or can it be like expanded or reformed? Or is this something that needs to be dismantled and something new created, something that is non oppressive, something that is community focused, and something that is sort of rooted in healing, as opposed to maybe just covid? With or getting by with oppressive systems? I don't know if that answered the question, but no, that