Podcast Replay: Purposely Podcast - Mark Longbottom

10:05PM Nov 24, 2021

Speakers:

Julie Confer

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Mark Longbottom

Keywords:

people

becky

podcast

community

build

feel

john

nonprofit

working

launch

world

conversation

big

life

business

space

giving

campaign

mark

create

Hey there, you know we believe community is everything. And today we're dropping a conversation that could have only happened through the power of community. Meet our friend Mark long bottom of the purposely podcast. He's a global do gooder who splits his time between New Zealand and the UK. And we both launched our podcast around the same time in 2020, and have been kindred spirits and cheering each other on along the way. We were honored to be guest on his podcast and wanted to share this special conversation with you. So be sure to subscribe to the purposely podcast wherever you'd like to listen or connect with Mark and find more like minded friends at weird for good community.com Hey, I'm John.

And I'm Becky. And

this is the we are for good podcast.

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more work, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

So let's get started.

Becky and Jonathan, a very warm welcome to Pepsi podcast.

Hey, it is an honor. Thanks so much, Mark.

Oh my gosh, Mark, we are so jazzed to finally meet you.

Yeah, me too. You guys have both negotiated putting children to bed and we call it down under the witching hour, which is the Goshi ating. The witching hour which is sort of from half five to half, seven, or both in taxi both okay.

Oh, my gosh, the witching hour, I'm going to start calling it that at our house. Because yes, and it's kind of fortuitous that it's almost Halloween, that's for having this conversation here in the States.

getting everybody to bed and convince to go to sleep at the same time is always a negotiation.

I think the more kids you have, the less you care, and it all just turned into one big day.

It's all good. You don't have to go to sleep.

Just the context for our listeners. I'm based in Auckland, New Zealand, and you're in Oklahoma and the United States. So we've got the fair distance between us, I was gonna kick off by just asking you both what, you know, what's the purpose and mission of we are for good. And then we can dive into it,

I would say is is something that has been a vision on our hearts, collectively for many years. And it finally just took shape. Last summer when we officially left our jobs. We Becky and I met 15 years ago. And we've spent in built our careers in the nonprofit space. So we were always on the inside, you know, working our ranks, working up the ranks, from marketing to fundraising to Becky went off to do major gifts, and I kind of went in the annual giving track. But we just really fell in love with philanthropy, like the power of it. We love the connectivity that it creates. We love the community that it creates, we honestly just loved everything about it. But we felt you know, as we looked at back and kind of took a bigger picture of the industry, we just felt like often so much alone, you know, because you're trying to do these things, you're trying to change the world. But you need camaraderie you need community because it can be a grind. And, you know, we wanted to build a table that we didn't really feel existed. And so we are for good came in to play last summer, officially we left our jobs in the middle of the pandemic, which is a little scary, because we've got families, we've got kids to feed and all of that. But you know, we just started to build community around this podcast. And the podcast has led us to really want to show up deeply in this space of serving with the best education and tools. So people feel have a community to lean into, but also like innovation and hope and direction for how to raise more money and build bigger movements.

Wonderful, huge admiration for my end, because it was clear that you guys worked on this project before you handed your notice in or both left your jobs. So you guys working together at a health Foundation's that Ryan did this sort of you guys are having kind define conversations at night planning this move or how did it play out?

She paid back at Becky Do you want to like tell when we first met because we've kind of been working on this for a while

we were working in higher education. And so we're working at a major university here in the States. And we're working at the foundation in the marketing department. And we just saw how the power of philanthropy move people and change them. And so I was kind of a young 25 year old kid trying to like make sure that nobody knew that I didn't know what I was doing. And I stumbled upon this graphic design intern who was in his senior year of college, which is John and hired him and we just kind of grew up together and nonprofit and we're both ridiculous idealist we call ourselves marketers disguised as fundraisers and we just have this optimism for the world and what we think we worked for many years at the university and then we moved and did a decade and the our state's largest not for profit healthcare system. And the whole time John is kind of taking on these side gigs where he is working with nonprofit organizations, he's using his design and branding background to sort of just help them kind of reimagine their brands and their websites and the way they show up the way that they talk. And he would bring me in on occasion, and as the writer, I would kind of write some things, or I would do some positioning with some public relations, and we just loved working together, nine to five jobs would sometimes work at night. And we just to John's point earlier, just felt like there was something bigger. And so we kind of dabbled this when we first started a campaign that ended up being really revolutionary at our health care system. And it was an employee giving campaign. And I don't know anybody in the history of fundraising who has ever said that they have had a revolutionary employee campaign, because not many people want to do. And there's just usually a very big disconnect there. And so we just kind of got free rein, from our leadership to just go and build something that was incredibly unique, very authentic, and really disruptive. And they really gave us the green light to do whatever we wanted to do. And so we kind of did our audit of all these employee campaigns around the world. And we just decided we didn't like any of them. None of them grabbed us, none of them spoke to the heart, none of them put the power of passion into the donors hands, it felt very top down rather than bottom up. And so we decided to build a bottom up approach where everyone mattered. And we looked at people who could possibly give us the lowest gift amounts and just tried to work to galvanize their support and earn their trust. And 10 years later, it's like a million dollar campaign with 1000s of employee donors. And we basically just took the tenants of that campaign. And it is the structure now of we're for good. So we started building classes around that we decided we loved content creation. And we just saw that this sector was rife for being disrupted, not only on the professional development side, but just in the way that we talk to each other the way that we express our hearts, the way that we connect with community. And so, you know, it's kind of like Jeff basis building Amazon, nobody got it when we first came out. But I think more people are kind of trying to understand this kind of kindness revolution that we're building. And yeah, it's been really exciting.

So I love it the terminology, so digital kindness communities as one way of just to describe it. So it's consultancy. It's a community. It's an elearning portal. And it's a podcast that shining a light on some amazing people in their kind of contributions. On a real personal level, like where did that kind of confidence come to sort of ditch the day job? And you know, you've both got children, you've both got responsibilities, like how big a deal was that for you? So starting with the John, like taking that leap,

you saying that, and I'm hearing you say, it makes me think I don't have the confidence still, you know, I think I've definitely been blessed to surround myself with people that have seen that in me before I can recognize it. And it's something I'm working on of receiving that. And I do appreciate you saying that because it was a big step. And I think I love entrepreneurship, like it is in my bones, it's in my blood. I have wanted to do this for so long. But actually doing it like this, what I tell people is that actually taking that step is a lot different than talking about taking this step. In the same way, it'd be hard for us to talk about fundraising, if we'd never actually fundraise for the last 15 years, you know, it's like the context of the situation. And actually, it being your life that's on the line, it felt the gravity of it was really, really hard. And in fact, I, you know, as much as I was ready to make a jump, and we kind of had our best laid plans, we had written a business plan we had, you know, Becky had actually picked a date and drawn a line in the sand and said, You know, it's gonna be June 30 2022 2020 is the last day that she's gonna work at the Health Care Foundation, which would, you know, presume that July 1 is the first day of s jumping. And I don't know, I started to get cold feet, I guess when the day got closer. And it really took several conversations, but one really poignant one with my wife here in the studio that I'm at today, which is just our office downstairs in our house. And she's like, John, When are you going to stop giving up on your dream? And it really did take the confidence of other people seeing that, you know, we do have something unique to tell the world we had had success in our foundation. And at the end of the day, like this sounds kind of ridiculous but I love working at a coffee shop I worked at a coffee shop in college I've always felt like if I have a back up plan is to go work at a coffee shop. I could be completely happy just talking to people and making drinks all day. So that's how I got back into it is like what's the worst that could happen? I could go get another job. You know, but I do think this was a moment in time and so much had lined up and kind of confirm that. And man It has been like a joy ride of all the things coming out. It's been very confirming this last year.

Wonderful. And for the YubiKey we firmer in your results. To that start date, you will I can, we can do this, were you the one kind of leading forth,

I think I would probably say I'm, I'm definitely the more fearless of the two of us. But I also had kind of a seminal life event where I just had what would be called almost today like a nervous breakdown. And I don't mean that to sound as scary as it is. But you know, I just felt something building in me for a really long time. And my mental health wasn't great. And I didn't find out until later. It's really because I was not doing the job that I was really meant to be I was having a lot of my creativity tamped down. I don't work very well in corporate environments, just because I'm such a creative free spirit. And it really took this sort of like health scare for me and for our family to say what is important. And when you go through something like that, and you start digging into the Why am I feeling this way? You know, I had a really supportive husband, just like John had a supportive wife, and my husband said, You've got to go for this. You've talked about it for so long, we have two young daughters, and he was like you are you are going to be living, walking proof of chasing your dreams to our children. And I support you, I think this is going to be incredibly successful. And even if it's not, I still will support you. And so, you know, just having that sort of unconditional love and support at the house like gave us the freedom to jump and who could have ever thought that we would be jumping like right in the middle of the pandemic, but it honestly worked out pretty well for us. In terms of a business standpoint,

yeah. Cuz you guys launched a new ad straightaway, number one, podcast, nonprofit space in the States, which is amazing. What, in terms of the business model, like we're down the track a bit now? Has it changed from what you had written down on that bit of paper? significantly? 18 months ago, two years ago,

I think that there's like, I don't want this to sound like a stereotypical answer, because it's really comes from my heart. But the vision of it is so much brighter today than it was when we wrote it on the paper. And we are like, ridiculous idealist and optimist and all those things. And I think that comes through this business plan. I mean, we wrote 30 pages, wasn't it? 30 pages, Becky, we're ridiculous. We're just pouring into it, because it's like, I just see it. But what's different now is like, there's names of people like there's people's faces that I picture that are, you know, our vision is called an impact uprising. Because we believe in the transformative power of philanthropy that getting Yes, getting development officers to be able to raise more money is part of the impact uprising that gets more people to give. But we believe that that is just anybody at any level, you know, being involved in philanthropy on the giving. On the receiving side, we believe it's just truly transformational. And so when I talk about that now, I'm like, I picture people's faces in our community that we've met, that are running grassroots organizations, and I picture people that we've met are some of the most disruptive, you know, thought leaders that are speaking truth into the sector in a time when everyone's looking for direction and answers. And it's like, this is like such a moment, you know, to be able to marry those two together and to connect people and just roll up our sleeves. And, you know, put away some of the formality that I think our sector was so steeped in for many years that we didn't feel seen in, it's like, now we can just gather around a table and talk, you know, and be friends and build these bridges. And so I guess a lot of it feels a lot more doable. And just, you know, more full of life now that we're in the middle of it, in terms of like how we are making money versus, you know, setting the business plan, I think we were really optimistic. And I think you just realize that things may take longer on some levels. But in terms of how the community has grown, like it's blown our expectations, honestly, I've just think people were hungry. And like Becky said, is a good time to launch because people all of a sudden get really great with digital. And we were already positioned ready to do that, to have those conversations at this pace and speed at which we did it. And, you know, we launched the podcast with the framework that we use to build a campaign because we never view it as building this company. We viewed it as building this grassroots style movement. And so you know, the confirmation of the launch being so successful and so having so much success and downloads and all that we feel like it's just because we have this commitment to playing the long game, you know, we're here for the long haul. And we want people to feel seen and have a place at our table. And you know, if that takes forever, that's okay with us because we love it. Or you know, if it catches fire, it just is more structured to be a movement than it is a business.

Taking a quick pause from today's episode to thank our sponsor, who happens to be one of our favorite companies to neon one, neon one provides software solutions to growing nonprofits, but they really do so much more than that. They're also incredibly passionate about creating community in the social goods sector. We believe in the power of community. We've seen the greatest philanthropy big movements happen when people work together to achieve common goals. Neon one can help you do just that. They created hearing giving connections a community that brings fundraisers together and empowers them to learn from each other's experiences. With weekly checklist and an active Slack community, there's no better way to prepare for your year in success. Want to be a more connected fundraiser, join their community today at NEON one.com backslash we are for good, or follow the link in our show notes.

Hey, friends, after meeting some of the most visionary leaders and world changers in the nonprofit sector today, we realized they all have one thing in common, they invest in themselves and their teams so they can stay relevant to what's working now to succeed and scale their missions. You know us we believe education for all, and that's when we created we're for good pro Pro is reimagining nonprofit professional development, giving you access to incredible live coaching events with some of the best thought leaders like Shauna Palmer, Lynn Wester and more. Imagine being able to work through your challenges in real time. That's the power of pro. Every week, we host a new workshop, giving you the playbook and tools to take immediate action, build your confidence and grow your impact. Be the Pro and get started today with a 14 day free trial head over to we're for good pro.com/free. Okay, let's get back to this amazing conversation.

And what really jumped out at me is the power of the community like you're building and have built, and you seem to really love and enjoy. And you've built that really quickly. Is there a template that you drew on it, someone else said that maybe is not doing it in the kind of nonprofit space not doing in there for good space that you kind of modeled yourselves on?

Or are you asking about competitors in the space?

I guess just in terms of like the the four aspects and that community build and these these others out there? Like I'm thinking someone like Pat Flynn, if you're big into podcasts, yeah. Like it's useful content to improve or add value to people's lives. And through that you build a community of like minded people. But are there other sort of people that models out there Aedra drawn to launch, we offer good

100% I mean, I cannot express I love entrepreneurship. And so I've been following a lot of entrepreneurs, especially in the thought leader space and kind of, I would even put in quotations like the influencer space, because I think it's a really unique time. And I follow Brendon Burchard really closely to have just, he is such a positive force of just like the power of, I mean, between us, and I love the design of podcasts. And I would say this to his face, like he almost comes across like as like, he's just too good. He's too pure. He's too like his kid, he really be like that. But I truly feel like he is such a positive force and shows that somebody's showing up consistently over a long period of time, that just serves and serves and serves, like, there's so much power and so much equity that you build with your audience on that. And I do think, you know, we took a lot of the entrepreneurs playbook and how we wanted to design, we're for good, because we knew that content would be central to it. And we knew that to disrupt, we wanted to show up at a faster pace, and a more open arms place than what we saw out there. And that is where we saw a gap in the market. You know, I mean, we've described this a few times already. But you know, we we go to conferences, and like I get to put on my khakis, I got to like tuck in my shirt. And we have to put on ribbons of like how impressive we are right? I've got my CFRE and I've been in the industry a long time or whatever it may be. And you know, we have some of those things. And we realize not that they're bad programs. But it doesn't necessarily translate to that you're necessarily a really great, effective fundraiser, like, it may be that you jumped through the hoops. But we really realized that the people that you have the best relationships with the donors and have the most impact are the people that just show up authentically. They know how to build relationships and are really, I guess, pure in that sense. And so we just really want to like amplify that. And yeah, I mean, it all kind of comes together using the entrepreneurship lens and kind of the philosophies we learned through building a movement and kind of all put it together. But there's not really a model. I wish there was a model we were following more closely. Because, you know, there's some days where I'm like, What can we just replicate but we just kind of honestly follow what we feel like is our gut of what you know, where we see the gap and you know, keep going that direction.

It is clear that you developed we are for good because you couldn't find an equivalent and you are unique in lots of ways. And best day in the office for you Becky, like absolute like jumping on the table celebrating moment.

Oh my gosh. I mean, for me and John will not be surprised that I said this, but I just love to hear stories. And I love to hear a story from someone in our community who has either used a tool that we have to be really successful in a campaign or we get, you know, emails or reviews or social media posts from people saying that we are the thing that they've been looking for for years or that our podcast helped them get land a job in nonprofit. And it's like, yes, we want, it feels good to hit those numbers, we're coming up on 100,000 downloads of our podcasts, and that will feel good. But to me, that doesn't feel as good as when I get to know somebody like having this conversation with you halfway around the world, just being able to know you online, digitally, for almost a year, Mark, and just know how passionate you are about the space. I like want to know everything about you, I want to know your history, I want to know where you've worked, I want to know where this passion comes from. So a great day in the office for me is really when I just get some one on one time where I get to hear about an impact from someone or they share their story. And we can find a way to translate that into a way that connects one human to another.

Yeah, wonderful. And for you, John,

I love the stories too. I love the conversations we've gotten to be privileged to have through the podcast. I'm I think hardwired that I just love being in the vision space, you know, if I could sit around and draw pictures and craft vision all day, that would be my dream day. And I do feel like we're forget to allow me to do that a lot just to have to be surrounded by somebody like Becky, and Julie. You know, this is the three of us that make up we're for good right now. But their belief in just the vision that is cast and their support, and the way that they bring it add color to it. Like it is just so fun. You know, it's fun to get to start with a blank sheet of paper and just build something. I love connecting with fellow entrepreneurs in this space that really want to change the world through their innovative ideas. And so honestly, getting to talk shop with somebody that's also building a for good business is always like top of my list as well.

For both of you like creating something, launching it scaling is hard. And it comes with huge hours. And I know you've put so much into your elearning GoPro, how do you guys both avoid burnout?

I'm so proud of mark for asking this question and holding us accountable. Are you John?

Do we have to answer this live on camera and be honest,

the reality is, is that we made a choice. And this will be really interesting for your listeners, we in our original business plan, we had a piece in there for investors. And we knew that if we had some startup capital, we could run much more quickly to the things that we were really passionate about. And we learned that if we gave away if we took that capital, we are going to have to give away some equity in our company. And just knowing John as long as I have, he's pretty much like my little brother. I mean, we just looked at each other and both said no way, like it will lose the purity of what we're trying to do. And we don't ever want a group of people coming in and telling us how we need to run our business. So we literally bootstrapped this and took on six clients. So we have six nonprofit clients that are on the side that are funding basically the first probably 15 months of this business. And it really just kind of added you know, another 40 hours on to the already probably 40 to 50 hours that we put in a week. We're here for the long play. And we knew that this really intense workload would be a season. We're getting close to the end of the season. And I don't regret it. I have to tell you, entreaty, John,

we had spent months working with clients months, you know, recording the podcast. And then comes this platform that we launched, which is really like our Netflix for nonprofits. So to create original content, we flew people, some of these disruptive voices that we had met through the podcast all to Dallas for a recording weekend. It truly was like the most beautiful picture of community I mean, I still can think back that night sitting around a table sharing you know, a beautiful dinner with people that we had just met that are all different walks of life don't look like each other but come together and just share community like it was one of the highlights of my entire life honestly getting to be together like that. But that next day, you know, we had a wake up call at 7am Because Becky and I had scheduled our weekend back to back to back to do all this recording and honestly had only left them your remnant of like a 7am video shoot to film our entire class for the pro platform which was a horrible idea because you know and we showed up and you know what we did like what we do with the podcast, you know multiple times a week it's like we did it I don't know if you know we could tell that we weren't on our a game because yeah, we're exhausted but I don't know if the average person would know we look sleepy if you look at all the pro videos we look so inspired Yeah, I mean it's actually we really worked we were very tired. But you know, I noticed like in my negative self talk like sir to come out like so bad in that, like, I'm just, even when you asked me about the confidence like that is like my, one of my biggest hang ups and it showed up, I think when I was so underslept. So burnt out, so just tired, but I wasn't burnt out from the, you know, the joy of getting to launch this, but I'm definitely burnt out just the grind of it. And it all just kind of came to a head. And you know, we left that day I got in the car with my wife, we're like all the stuff packed up. And like I just like broke down in the car, like, like I hadn't cried in years, like in the car. And it was like almost like the weight of all this that I've realized that just built over the last 18 months. And again, it's weird, because it's a dichotomy of that it's such a joy. But it is a huge weight. You know, it is a lot of our family's life is on the line with this and I want it I don't want to let any of these people down that we've gotten to connect with. But I learned something deep about myself, you know that the the words that we're saying to ourselves, like we're receiving those like, and the things that I'm saying that are negative and are critical are just like eating me away. And so I've done a lot of work since that point. I mean, but I'm not out of the woods. But I think that burnout is not talked about enough. And I think that a lot of the mental health issues around overwork, and just not figuring out balance is not talked about enough. And trudging through it is is really like dangerous if you don't surround yourself in community and people that you can talk to, and people that you can share with because it can be really, really isolating, despite having, you know, whatever success it looks like on the outside, it can be really lonely. So I just I lift that because I think entrepreneurs really feel that you know, because you are pulling in the extra hours even though you're subscribed that it's maybe just for a period of time. But anyway, yeah, thanks for asking.

No, I mean, you guys, you know, I know. Because you share some great things about your life, your personal lives. And you You know, I can see the New Zealand caught Mahi, which is a which is a married term, which is work and you you know, you carry you carry a lot both carry a lot. And I noticed John, that you disappeared off to a lovely island or somewhere somewhere nice and warm with and I was thinking your wife is like, I just had this picture on here that he was like enough. We are taking Africa to the Caribbean islands tomorrow. And I don't care what Becky says. She's just gonna, she's just gonna have to love it. Is that how it works?

Let's be clear, John and his wife are frequently on the same page. And I pushed him to go on that trip.

Oh, but I mean, you know, launching a business is a family decision. You know, I think if you're thinking about this, I mean, that's coming at it from the outside. I mean, it's gonna rock every aspect of your life. And Becky, and I've had to have hard conversations about, I mean, it's like all the stuff you don't want to have to face, you're gonna have to face every thought and fear and reality about money, every thought and fear about personal space and worked and all the things kind of collide. But yeah, so we had plans. I think this is where my wife, I mean, she is my rock. And this, let me be very clear. And if she wouldn't have been supportive from the first conversation, to just repeatedly, like, so they're in a supportive way, like it couldn't have happened. Like it wouldn't have been, it still couldn't happen. You know, we homeschool our four little ones at the house while we're recording the podcast. I mean, Tuesdays and Thursdays are a riot at our house. I mean, it's like we all literally gather around the table at lunch, Becky, Julie, all the kids. Yes, it's actually really funny. But yeah, Candace will remind me of like, hey, the reason that we did this is because we wanted to have more freedom, more flexibility, more, you know, just not miss the moment that's right here with the kids. And it'd be really easy for me because I could go into workaholic mode, like so easy, you know, especially on a deadline or something like that. But she's really pushed me to not lose that vision of one of the reasons we wanted to do this. And so we had committed we wanted to live or you know, kind of spin chunks of time elsewhere. So we can show the kids the world and that they could meet different people and kind of understand how different people live and all of that. So we took a month, this past summer and went to Costa Rica and did just that. I mean, you know, the kids made friends from around the world and got to kind of explore throughout the day, I worked most of it, to be completely honest. But there was a good balance. And I think it's something that we're going to continue to lean more into as the company grows, because it's something that's a passion of ours like we love like we both just come alive traveling. It also

struck me that actually what a in some ways, very challenging time to launch platform like yours, but he in many ways really great timing because you've got so many big, big political issues, you know, black lives matter. COVID all these things kind of come into a point and people wanting to Do the world differently, I guess at times that help with the kind of roller coaster and you know, if there's any freakouts, especially COVID. Has that Do you think that's actually sped up your growth and has enabled you to build that community? And it's kind of you've come at a time where you're really adding value to a lot of people asking questions,

I would say it definitely has played a huge role. And I just think, you know, especially here in the States thing, the political unrest, the social justice unrest, I mean, everything from what we're trying to see, to level out the playing field, I mean, the billionaire's versus the working class, and equal pay for women. And it just all the things feel like they're kind of coming to rise. And it just feels like a moment for people who want to disrupt who want to do things differently, who want to show up and honor, you know, their neighbor, who may look a little different than them or live differently than them and to not stand in judgment over them. I mean, we just again, it just creating a kindness community was something that really resonated with everyone because the just the media and our phones and the way we consume information, and news is just so full of negative and hard information and stories. And so we just felt like standing up something that could be kind of a light, or maybe even just respite for people, you know, would be a place to escape and find a way that you could do something that was much bigger than this problem that was sitting in front of you, it was a way to just pour into the world, whether it's just you're part of the community in a super small way, and feel yourself come alive, because it feels good to help someone else it feels good to pour into things that matter to you. And and we've just found that by bringing our families along on this journey, and bringing in community, it just makes it a much more vibrant and rich experience for everyone. And when it's grounded in empathy, and grounded in something we love to call cognitive diversity, which is like trying to embrace people who have a different experience than you and taking in their lived experience and, and absorbing it and respecting it, it just makes you a more whole human being. And I just feel like it has grown my heart tremendously and opened my eyes. And yeah, I just, I just think that that moment truly did help us.

And fie John,

I was just gonna, you know, second that I feel, you know, a calling or, you know, whatever you want to say like a commitment that we want to lift stories that challenge people to, and it's like, I think, in many ways, we're always, you know, we lift anybody that's gonna come on the show, and we want to give them the space to tell their story. But we want to challenge our audience too, because we feel like there's so many voices that have been sidelined, for at least my entire career. And I still see conferences that come out with a complete white cast of characters, you know, and it's like it is it's unconscionable to not think about lifting voices of everyone to make it representative, you know, and lift and lean into those stories. And so truly, we have to be really intentional to say, this is a goal of ours, you know, and it could be a daily thing that we're saying, Are we lifting the voices? are we inviting people are we going the extra mile to find diversity of opinion, and voices and topics. And I just feel really, that that is part of why we are here at this moment in time, you know, and some of our dearest friends that we've met, are those that are championing a different story. And we want to be part of lifting them and pointing people and hopefully turning the tide on some of these movements that are happening, it's like, we don't want to just see the movement, we want to see the action, you know, and like actually move people toward taking action. And so we're really happy to be part of that

wonderful woman, massive fan and love what you guys are doing. And I love the softness to it. Actually, I love the fact that you guys do so much of it with kindness, but you get to some really great topics and helping people be the best versions of themselves. Just as we move towards closing you guys on track to kind of been able to carve out more normal life like, say, 22 Is that going to be without having to do the heavy lifting on the consultancy?

Mark? The thing I fear the most is John and I's ability to just stop at some point and pause because we are I mean, we'll be two in the morning, working on things texting each other a brilliant new idea. And we'll be running down that rabbit trail. And it's really about almost just pacing ourselves. I know that we have incredible ideas for how we're going to grow this company. But we're unpacking them very slowly. Because if we're going to build a global movement, we can't just run with Becky and John's ideas. We have to constantly be listening and we don't want we're for good to be about Becky and John. You know, we want it to be about the community. So it just requires us to listen more to pause more to make sure that we're checking in we don't want to, you know, to John's point, we don't want to move too quickly that we You know, don't see someone or we misrepresent someone with what we're trying to do we really want to think things through. And you know, one of our lines that we say all the time is we're not here to be millionaires, we're here to change the world. If we can come at it at a slower pace, get some balance for 2022, which I definitely see in my future, you know, I still think we can have great balance and we can still grows and create this impact uprising, while still nurturing our families and living a full and vibrant life.

massive thank you to you both for giving me a bit of your evening. And we'll stay connected. And I look forward to seeing more from we are for good.

Mark, we just adore you. Can we just pause for one minute and just say that you have been an unconditional supporter, fan champion on social media. We think you represent the best of nonprofit in New Zealand and we are rooting for you and consider you a lifelong friend.

Free kind. Thank you very much. I love the like you. I love the fact that through digital platforms, we have 1000s of miles don't matter a job and actually, you know, like I've learned a lot from your journey and I have this aspiration from my perspective. I just got to find some time to write a business plan.

It'd be a nice sleep aid, if anything else.

Have a great sleep and we'll catch up soon. Thank you so much. Thanks, Mark.

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