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Hey, I'm Jon.
And I'm Becky.
And this is the We Are For Good podcast.
Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
So let's get started. Becky, we are like beaming today.
We got BRB in the house today, finally,
So excited. I am beyond excited to be here with you guys like truly.
Total mutual feeling.
This is like really awesome. So if you're joining us happy Friday, we're in the middle of the habits of an impactful fundraiser series. You know, this week is really dope because we're talking to the executive director. We know there's so many leaders that listen to this podcast, we want to help you get oriented around what's the stuff you really need to care about what are the habits you need to infuse in your life to hopefully we're going to kind of give you the TLDR version of what really matters with BRB, I'm gonna throw all the acronyms out because
My head is spinning.
So we're so delighted to have Brooke Richie-Babbage on the podcast. And if you don't know her, you need to subscribe right now over at her podcast, the Nonprofit Mastermind Podcast but she is this amazing lawyer turn nonprofit founder turn impact strategist and coach. She's an unapologetic strategy geek 100% Virgo and INFJ if you follow the Myers Briggs, she's a self professed template queen and unabashed believer in the power of abundance. You know, we love talking about abundance here to help create true positive impact in the world. And over the past 20 years, she's had so many journeys, she has been an organizer, a lawyer, a nonprofit founder and leader. She has been the professor of law, social entrepreneurship, and nonprofit leadership. She has been a board member and a board officer many times over, she's built successful nonprofit from the ground up, managed a thriving team and raised millions of dollars to support the mission she believed in. And through it all, what ties Brooks many journeys together as her deep passion for creating social change. Can you tell we're like so excited, she's still our people. And we've kind of like, swarmed her for all these months, and we're finally getting the hang out. So we're just delighted to have you on the podcast today, Brooke, hey, welcome.
I am delighted, you know, before we hopped on, I was just geeking out over being here with you guys, I am such a fan of everything you're building. And I'm really excited for this conversation.
And we are too. That goes both ways,
Kind of speechless. And I love that I just cut your bio off. Because you know, she's also a Harvard Law School grad and all these kinds of things, fellow. But that's not what this is about. Because I feel like your heart and soul like when you listen to you like he just comes through the page. Or if you go to your site and like dive in, like your heart. And this is so good. But you're really great at building systems for people to like frameworks to think through. And that's when we thought about this series, we wanted to really give a playbook that you keep coming back to of like what really matters. So before we get into all that, though, we got to give you a little space is your first time on the show, give us your story, like how did you get here to this moment and kind of walk us through a little bit of your personal journey?
Absolutely. So you know, you captured a little bit of it in in my bio, I have always just really been committed to social justice and social change. And I actually thought I was going to be a writer, I thought I was going to be a journalist, and tell stories of social justice and social impact. And then I discovered that I don't have the patience. And I am far too sensitive. I'm not really good at having other people share my people. So that wasn't going to be a good career. But one of the summers when I was exploring journalism, here in New York City where I live and have spent most of my adulthood, there was also a policy institute starting called center for an urban future that basically applied journalistic principles to policy work, like to legislative advocacy, and a partner with organizers and lawyers and journalists and sort of took the lived experiences and stories of people in communities and helped translate that into legal change and advocacy. Oh, I love that. And I was like I'm in that's That sounds just amazing. Just the whole sort of gestalt of it. And so that was actually the summer that I decided I'm going to law school. I'm going to policy school. And you know, like you said, John, the three line has been In social justice, that was really the the crux of the law that I practice, I was a community lawyer. And so that's really about D centering my own expertise as a lawyer in the room, and centering the expertise and experiences and skills and capacities of the clients of the people that you are advocating on behalf of, and they become partners in the advocacy process. And while I was doing that kind of law, I find that I kept having the same conversations with the people I was working with, over and over. And that really what I was drawn to was the partnership was the sort of empowering them to be the people going into conversations in court going into conversations and government agencies, and that led to the founding of my organization. And then the rest is history. That's what I did for 12 years.
Okay, I am married to an attorney. And I'm not going to try to throw him entirely under the bus right here. But you are the first attorney I have ever met, who subscribes to the things that the thing that we say over and over on this podcast, which is if you're looking for solutions to your problem, you go directly to the community, to the person with the lived experience, who is it who's facing that problem. And I just, I am just geeking out on BRB, here, I'm just a big Brook Ritchie Babbage fan. And just to know that, that changed your heart and your wiring to lead you here today is just freakin amazing. So keep going with that work. So we're gonna dive in to all of these questions that we have about how to be an impactful Executive Director, you've been at the top, I think you're working with organizations and all different kinds of roles and capacities. And I think we want to ask like ourselves, what are the right questions we need to be asking regarding being an executive director. So zoom us out? And ask us, you know, what are we really trying to accomplish here? And what is the big picture question that our executive directors need to be asking?
I love that question. I think it's really easy. Just having been there for so many years to keep your head down and get stuck in the weeds. And you can sort of look up and four years have gone by and you feel like you're spinning your wheels. And so this question about what should be guiding us just feels really powerful. It's like setting an intention. I think, I think what I have always said to the executive directors that I coach, and that I work with, and what I worked on when I was an ED was North Star, what is my North Star, everything that we do, as an executive director, as a leader in any position that you have, should be guided by a real deep commitment to and passion for the end goal that you are trying to achieve. Right. And so those of us who do social impact work, there's a mission that we're working on behalf of. And so you know, that's written down, it's in all of the materials. But there's some why there's some Northstar that we as individuals, and as people bring to our work, there's a reason that that mission inspires you that this particular organization, is the one that you have chosen to found or to lead. And I think when you can keep your eye on that, Northstar, what is the change in the world that I am pushing for what is what does the world look like when I have solved this problem that just really, really gets to me, right? When I've addressed this challenge. On those days, when it feels like a slog. And when your team's not quite clicking, and you've had one too many frustrating conversations with a board member, being able to really ask yourself, Why am I in this? What is? What's the thing here? What's my why I have found that to be deeply grounding and re centering. And to help sort of lift me above the fray in those moments when I need it.
You're so are people, you know, and I think it's so easy to fall into the trap of like they're there to hit the budget goal, you know, and it gets painful. And we're looking at so much burnout across the sector, if we can reconnect to that why, like, that's such a powerful tool. So let's get into some habits and actions. And I know this has got to be hard for somebody, especially somebody that was a founder of a nonprofit, to say, what are really, you know, give us three daily or weekly actions that would lead to the success like answering that bigger question.
Absolutely. So it is hard and it isn't. I mean, one of the things that one of the benefits of not being an executive director right now and actually working with hundreds of executive directors is you start to see the trends, right? You start to sort of see what are the things and the three that I would point to. One, I think setting a daily intention, right being clear about your focus for the day, I cannot tell you how many times I have sat down at the beginning of the day, and I have my 20 item task list. And my brain shuts off because, right, and, you know, how do I know which of those 20 things, I talk all the time about the tyranny of the urgent, right? It's just there's so many things. So I have found and this was really, really critical when I was in a leadership position in my organization, that committing to or identifying the one to three things, whether you call them goals, or objectives or intentions. This is what will make me feel like I've had a productive day at 10 o'clock tonight, when I shut off my computer, right? And getting really clear about what those are. I think the second thing is staying clear about key metrics and how you're defining success. And I think we can talk about metrics in the like, in the, you know, number crunchy way which I am a huge, I love that. I more mean, what are my personal metrics of success for this organization, for me as a leader for my team, and when I was running my organization, I would actually write those down. I love post, its, I love all sizes, the first. And so I get those, like big, you know, like the big ones 11 by 17 posts, and I'd write down, this is what success looks like. And in any given six month period, it might be really amazing connection with my new board members, or my team is just clicking right, whatever that is I'd write it down. And every day, it's right there in front of me, grounding me and keeping me sort of centered. And then the third thing at the end of the day, what's, uh, when it's really easy as executive directors to, as people, quite frankly, to focus on all the things, we're not getting done, all the little failures, all the little balls that were dropped. I think most of our time is spent on that, unfortunately. And what I tried to do with the EDs that I work with, and what I tried to build a capacity around when I was running my organization was at least once a day, I was usually not great at this, but I would try once a day, what's one thing that actually I did, it could be a really amazing conversation with a team member that was struggling, or that email that I finally had sent on, there's something good, there's something that you did. And taking a moment to note that for yourself can be really rejuvenating.
Not only is it rejuvenating it, it's so applicable in any role. I think what you just said there, and we keep hearing this on the series, in terms of how to be impactful in the words I keep hearing is intention, and focus. And I think we're just so used to living in the spin cycle, the hamster wheel is nonprofit, and we're just running all the time, I'll tell you, I just did a training with the foundation down in Texas. And something that came up was we were exploring values over and over that they wanted to hear was they want to hear more wins, they want to hear more about their wins from their leader, they want more recognition. And they don't necessarily want it for themselves. They want it for their colleagues as well. And I love that one in particular, that third one that just kind of recenter is us and says, even if you know the donor said no to this massive proposal, which will take all the wind out of the sails if you've made a big ask or the board members mad, or whatever's happen, if you can find that silver lining in every single day. And if you can't find it, look for it. And humans, because humans are showing up every single day and giving their best absolutely love that. So our next question is, what relationships do you prioritize as an executive director and I am so curious to hear what you're going to say because I will just say I'm not trying to steal your thunder. But in my experience, you know, with a lot of EDs that I've worked with the relationships that were prioritized, were the biggest donor out there, the board chair and the CEO of our organization, and I would love to know what you think would be the three or a couple of relationships to prioritize as a ED?
Fascinating because none of those are on even my top five.
Oh, I love you. Okay, keep going break it up. Keep going, Disrupt it.
So I'm going to start with the sustainable sisterhood. And I've talked about this on my podcast a bunch, but these were the most transformative relationships that I've ever had as an ad I had this group of seven women EDS, we met fairly organically early in all of our 10 years and met. We're still actually meeting every first Wednesday of the month for We're a breakfast. And we were a mastermind, we were accountability partners, we were all growing our organizations together. And that taught me a couple things about relationships to prioritize one. And to this day, I prioritize relationships with people that pull me out of the weeds. Right? Most of the energy that we bring to the table as an executive director, it pushes us down, it pushes us not down, it pushes us into the weeds, yeah, into the weeds, right to focus on the nuts and bolts and the tactics and making sure that, you know, everything's firing on all cylinders. And that's part of our role. But those people that actually helped me elevate even for an hour, right, that, that our accountability partners that say, but is that the goal you set for yourself? Have you moved forward on the thing on the intention that you set? The mentors that said, oh, there's, there's a method to this madness that you're feeling right, that really helped pull me out, even just for those Wednesday mornings. So that's the first thing that I learned about relationships to prioritize. As an executive director, I think that's really important, I think a second are people that can help you think through problems, thought partners. And my hope for every executive director out there is that some of those thought partners are your board members? That's a great, you know, I get asked this question all the time. What are the metrics? Like, what does a good governance board look like? I've lots of thoughts about that. But one of the metrics is their actual thought partners, they are people that can help you strategize and think. And so I prioritize relationships with people that bring new perspectives that can sort of I can think through things with because there's an ad that can be really lonely, right, you're sort of out on this proverbial limb by yourself. And then the third, and I think this is where a lot of it is, I don't know, a lot of the people that I talk to, it feels like they shouldn't focus on this last group, but sources of support, right, just people who are going to be a cheerleader that are going to give me a hug, that are going to pour me my glass of Prosecco. My husband, my kids, you know, my, my, my crew, the people who give us sustenance, and I think we live in a society even in the nonprofit and social impact sectors that can downplay the importance of emotional sustenance, in our sustainability as leaders. And I think that does us a disservice. I think prioritizing those relationships, making time for the people that you spend time with just because they fill you up. Not because they're a strategic advantage to you just because they're going to be the ones that help you laugh. I think those are that's really important.
Brooke Richie-Babbage. Oh my gosh, here's the thing, and you just said sustainability, you kind of stole this word, because I'm like, from the very second, if you've listened to this habit series, we're going to end with sustainability. You everything that you're saying is about sustainability from the start. And that just makes me well up with like, excitement because right now I know there's people listening that just feel so buried in this you know, and I hope this conversation pulls you out and gives you a Northstar of how you can kind of reorient you know and rally around this so, so powerful.
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Let's go into some do this not that we love this. I'm picturing that book where it's like don't eat the burger, you know, eat the chicken. But what are some of the preconceived ideas? Because a lot of people think it's this walk us through some of those of what the right way to go about it is.
Yeah, I think, you know, one of the big ones that I would point to is I say laundry list, but I don't want to sort of sound judgey. But, you know, we all have the list of things we have to do say next quarter, right? And we do our work planning or we have our strategic plan. And it's just a list of activities. And that's really overwhelming. Because there's no sort of weight attached to anything. Everything is of equal importance and of equal weight. And so I think You know, one of the do not do this is work planning that is that starts within centers around activities. I do a lot of strategic planning with folks. And I guide folks through a process of like, what's your vision? What are your priorities? And with out fail maybe a third of the way through my process? I get an email from a board member or somebody on the planning team that's like, when are we going to start talking about what we're going to do? Like what about like always, activities? Because obviously, that's where the impact comes from. But I would say the don't do this is like don't start with activities. Don't start your day. Going back to the intention. Don't start your day with likes, the tasks, start with the goal. Start with the Northstar start with where are we trying to go? Because that will tell you which tasks are more and more more or less important.
Oh, my gosh, Jon, you took those words right out of John's my heart? Yeah, this is this is a hill that John will go to die on. And he is 100% correct, that the tactics are going to bury you but the strategy and the goals. They are going to center you in the word. Thank you so much for that.
Absolutely. Yeah, I always say that specificity and clarity give rise to intentionality. And sustainability comes from intentionality.
Okay, Brooke, now that we have hit the ground running with goals and strategy, I really want you to get in to some of those tactical things like KPIs. What are the KPIs? And those success indicators that mattered matter? And what are the ones that just don't matter?
I love that question. For the same reason that I love to do this not that question. So, first, I will say it depends. Right, it depends on on your goal and your Northstar. But I think there are some KPIs that people often focus on that I think can be a distraction. And I will very rarely tell people, they're doing something wrong. But sometimes what we focus on is a distraction. It is not serving us. So the ones that I would highlight are, you know, dollars raised, right. Whenever I work with organizations, one of the KPIs that they that they track is how much money did we raise this month this quarter? So obviously, you want to know what your revenue is. But what I would say is that dollars raised just as an example, don't matter outside of a broader context, right? So if you raise $100,000, but it costs you $110,000, to raise that $100,000, then that KPI is meaningless, right? It doesn't actually tell you financially. So I think KPIs like, what is your fundraising efficiency? And there's some really great metrics and sort of ratios that EDS can even ones who are nervous about money, and finances can can think through and use, what is your return on investment on fundraising dollars spent? And I think that's a really important one. So how much did you have to spend to raise each dollar that you brought in? That actually, that KPI gives you far more insight into how your dollars are being used efficiently and effectively? I also would think if we're just staying in the fundraising zone, a lot of people look just at new donors. Right? That's, again, maybe that matters. But are you looking at new donors within the sort of profiles that are going to actually be the best givers for your organization? Right? So you can have a lot of transactional donors, people who give because you have a campaign and they sort of send you $50. And that's great. That's $50. But are these donors with a deep affinity for your work? Are they people, you know, are they your people? Are they in your community? Are they going to become long term donors? Another one that I would highlight is how many ambassadors do you have for your organization? How many people do you have out there? shouting from the rooftops about your organization, asking on your behalf spreading the gospel about your organization? How many deepened relationships? Have you formed? And what are the metrics that you will use to demonstrate or illustrate a deepened relationship and that can be with your own team that can be with folks on your board? That can be with advisors and mentors. So I think, really the KPIs you want to track are the ones that give you clear insight into the strength of your organization, not just the dollars and et cetera.
Holy smokes.
I just did the Mic drop. Nobody can see it, because nobody's on YouTube, listening on streaming platforms. But that was a mic drop moment.
Yeah. And just like the understanding what the numbers mean, is so it's so important because especially
I worry Have those numbers? Yes, yeah,
yeah, because I think there's gonna be board members that come in that don't understand that context. And it's understandable, they're going to focus on the top number, without realizing maybe it's draining the entire staff for months to be able to raise those dollars. So really, really awesome way to apply that in what you call ambassadors. We call them rabid fans on this podcast. And I love that you brought them up, because there's really a quality there of just understanding this is where I love data, but we love our gut at the same time we talked about this. But are more of those coming into your organization? Like that's a gut check moment to say, Are we growing that are people not wanting to rip us on the street? Because that's a reputation thing we need to unwind, right?
You guys did a podcast episode. I don't know when you recorded it. But I listened to it this summer. It was part of your series about how you've grown We Are For Good, sort of what your lessons learned were. And it was talking about Mike drop. It was so incredible. For me, I actually shared it with everyone in my accelerator programs, I was like, You have to listen to the series. It's like a little mini course. And one of the things you guys talked about is that everything we are doing as fundraisers as leaders of organizations, it's all community. Yeah, right, that you we will achieve our impact, we will raise the money, we will activate the board, all of the things that we think we are focusing on, are actually about are we building a community of people who have a deep passion for this mission that we are all committed to working on behalf of, and if your community is growing, you will see the fruits of that you will see more revenue, you will see better partnerships, you will see board members that are engaged. And so this question about KPIs that do and don't matter. I'm a big fan of KPIs, I think you absolutely want to focus in on what you're tracking. But tracking the things that actually give you insight into Are you building this community of rabid fans, right of people who are out in the world, fighting for this mission right alongside you.
Thank you for saying that. That was really nice compliment. And I'll also say how you're defining community. Yeah, incredibly important. Because, like we say, so many times, community isn't just showing up with wealth, they're showing up in so many different ways. And if you can create a community and a space of belonging, where people feel safe, and seen and valued, they're gonna bring all kinds of assets to the table that are beyond the financial donation that they can make, and they will bring some of those, but they're gonna bring a whole lot more. And guess what, when they feel safe to do it, they're gonna bring their friends. And that is how the trickle effect works. So thank you so much for saying that and lifting that back up.
Okay, so we see this incredible career you've had, and clearly you came out like swinging to I mean, you know, like, it's just like, Christopher, good, done this in such a sustainable way that you're now you know, bringing others along side you, which is what's so inspirational about your story. Let's talk about sustainability for a second, like how do you take care of yourself as an executive director? What's this? We're gonna call this like our mental health minute at the end? How do you take care of yourself and check in on yourself.
So I am going to be fully transparent here and share that I am better at it now than I was for many of the years that I was an executive director. I think that a lot of those years were hard. I loved my organization. I was a founder, I loved my mission. I loved my team, I was very blessed to have a team and a board that I loved. And I absolutely did not send her my mental health, my sustainability. I think part of that was, you know, 10 years ago, just in our sector, conversations about sustainability were far less frequent. I think that part of it was that as I was coming up, you know, 25 years ago, the way people talked about leadership, and what it meant to be a leader meant, you never show what people called weakness, you never showed exhaustion, you, you know, were the first awake and the last to go to sleep, you know, all the things, right? And I was very much a student of that school of leadership. And, unfortunately, was good at it. And I say, unfortunately, because it's not, right. It's not good. It's not healthy. And what I learned, in all honesty, through my sisterhood and what they supported me and we all supported one another and doing over the tenure of my time running my organization was that nothing about our mission matters. Nothing about the strategies and the tactics matter if I burnout, right, if I can't read an email or focus on a thought, or if I snap every time I talk to my board members, if I'm resentful of the major donor that wants to have you know another There are coffee, right? All of that's the wrong narrative. I'm not bringing joy into those engagements into those conversations. So all of it's for naught. And I think once I started to understand that sustainability and mental health in particular, are not a nice to have, they're not like the thing you think about when you've nailed all the other things in your organization that everything strategic and tactical grows out of me putting my mask on first, once I started to understand that, I think I got better. There were three practices that became really central for me. One is a morning meditation, I am a, I shouldn't say lifelong, because I didn't do this as a child. But for the last two decades have been have tried to be a pretty consistent meditator. And I find that that centers me, and gives me sort of energy for the day, I would say a quiet week, for my office, and for my work. So the first week of every quarter is a quiet week. It's not a vacation week, although I do believe very firmly in vacations. But it is a week where we don't do external meetings, we don't do external work. People can work on whatever they need to catch up on. It's a time if they have passion projects to something they want to explore in our organization or in, in our sector. It's a week for them to spend living into the mission in the way that they want, and perhaps gets crowded out. So we do that every quarter to this day, even in running my business, I have a quiet week, it's coming up next week, first week in October. And related to that. Sometimes, we would do this at different times. But the last week of every August, for example. Sometimes some organizations do two weeks, there are blackout weeks, so not quite weeks, the next step, which is a vacation, everybody gets a week off, you know, or two weeks off, depending on how hard we'd work that year. Because one thing I realized is nobody actually takes vacation when they're supposed to. So those were things that I tried to create structures that would actually support quiet stillness, breathing, a chance to reflect. You know, our brilliance happens in the moments when our brain is not in panic mode. And I don't think we often think about how, how much time we spend in what our bodies feel as panic mode. So those are the things that I those are the habits I've tried to develop.
Brooke Richie-Babbage, will you accept my friendship bracelet, that I made for you, because you are such an incredible human? Thank you for speaking to the nonprofit leader just as a human being. I mean, I really just look back at the last two and a half years, and I look at the sector and our leaders in particular, and they just it feels like Atlas. Like they have the weight of the world on their shoulders. They're carrying their baggage. They're carrying the staffs baggage, they're trying to pivot they're trying to figure out their life, and what does it all mean in this brave new world. And I just appreciate so deeply that you would hold court for just the space to breathe. And to think because I can tell you in with we're for good. My best ideas for this company have come when I've been able to take a breath. And when I can clear my head. And we live in the fog of chaos all the time, because there's a million shiny things that are before us all the time and you want to help everyone. But you're right. If you cannot help yourself, then you can not be the light that sort of shepherds and creates this trailblazing moment for your people. So thank you so much. Absolutely love that. Okay, you've got our friendship bracelet. We've offered you this rose on the podcast, all the things tell people, how they can connect with you. How can they connect with your incredible organization? We definitely want them to go and listen to the nonprofit mastermind podcast, which clearly, you're gonna get more wisdom bombs dropped on you just like this. Tell how people online? All of it.
Wonderful. So there's the podcast. I also have a weekly strategy and leadership newsletter called Leadership Forward 321. And folks can sign up for that at RichieBabbage.com/LeadershipForward321.
And we'll drop this in the show notes too, if you want to one click to get there.
Wonderful. Yeah. And so every week I pick a leadership team like leadership team, like we've been talking about. And I share three resources, two articles, and a quote on that theme. Amazing just sort of pulling people out of the fray. And then the last thing that I'll highlight is my Next Level Nonprofit Accelerator. It's a six month individual coaching and group coaching and training program. It's for leaders of six figure nonprofits that are ready to grow. And they want to build their team, their board, their impact and their leadership as we've talked about today. But they want to do it in a way that gets rid of the guesswork, and most importantly, that constant threat of burnout. So, inside the accelerator, we talk a lot about and actually build the kinds of structures we've talked about here. How do you lift above the fray? How do you practice leadership in a sustainable way? All of those things, and folks can sign up or learn more and apply at richiebabbage.com/nextlevelnonprofit.
Oh my gosh, I can't want to switch to a 501c3 so we can go get in that accelerator.
To understand the sisterhood, come check it out. If this has resonated with you, please go check it out. We want more people to find harmony and community find yourselves find your passion again, Joy. Yes. Let's go find our joy again. And let's pour back into it when we have that space of peace. Brooke, you are well worth the way please come back and talk to us more.
I have to say you guys are just you're a real inspiration to me. I really, really love the community that you're building. I love your podcast. Talking to you both today is exactly what I dreamed of. Such a fan girl. Thank you for having me. This has been wonderful.
Total reciprocity.
Such an honor. Thank you so much.
Thank you my friend.
Full hearts.
Hey, friends. Thanks so much for being here. Did you know we create a landing page for each podcast episode with helpful links, freebies and even shareable graphics? Be sure to check it out at the link in this episode's description. You probably hear it in our voices but we love connecting you with the most innovative people to help you achieve more for your mission than ever before. We'd love for you to join our good community. It's free. And you can think of it as the after party to each podcast episode. You can sign up today at we are for good.com backslash Hello. One more thing If you loved what you heard today, would you mind leaving us a podcast rating and review? It means the world to us and your support helps more people find our community. Thanks friends. I'm our producer Julie Confer and our theme song is Sunray by Remy Borsboom.
