Thing I want them to see. So I'll go out and try to find something. And so I went to a used bookstore, and I happened to see Glenn Stout's book, and I read it, and I was lucky enough to option it and start the process. And brought on Jerry buckheimer and Chad Oman, and we were lucky enough to get the brilliant Joachim Rønning. And then we were very fortunate also to get Daisy Ridley, and so we started the process, and it went from there,
amazing. You know, this is an underdog story about, you know, beating the odds and adversity against you. And, you know, we're not all Olympic swimmers, obviously, but there's, it's such a universal thing, because I even think about, you know, my career and people being like, Oh, you'll never sit here, and here I am. So DAISY for you, at what point did you truly feel connected to Trudy and her story?
I mean, I think, honestly, from the first time I read the script, and it was really, it was, it was a process for you guys, I know even before I came on board, but even when I came on board, it was another two years until we filmed. But the script was so beautiful, and there was so much there. And it really is this wonderful story about this family who love each other so much, and then what these people are going out into the world and doing, and the things that the world is, the world at large is telling them they can or can't do so already, the script was beautiful, and then obviously we had time to talk about it. And it really felt like a continuing process, even during filming, because as I was physically training, I was understanding a little more the dedication it takes to, I mean, I only did a portion of what she did, but the physical dedication of putting your mind to something, particularly when everyone is telling you not to. But also the fact that I always found that the love story between the sisters, for me was the most important thing, really, the thing I really held on to. Yeah, sisters. And I felt, and I feel that in many ways, Trudy actually has a lot of freedom, like she is going and doing what she wants to do, even though she has to overcome so much to do it, she actually is doing that. And Meg is the one that has to stay at home and do all of the things that everyone was expecting, all the women were expected to do. So growing that relationship with Tilda, he was amazing. It was, it really was a continuing process, from the first time I read the script, speaking to joam and right through to when we finished filming,
Joachim, you'd mentioned, I heard you mentioned that you were making this project with your daughters in mind. And I love that everyone kind of has that personal connection, you know, with your sisters, with your daughters. What would you what was the driver for you to tell this story, and how did your daughters influence young woman in the sea?
Yeah, so I think my story, in coming into this mirrors Jeff's story in the way that you know, making a movie, you're gone for so long at the time, especially as a director, you're basically gone for two years. And so throughout my career, I've, I've tried to, you know, bring them along as much as they can, and and that's very rarely really possible because of school and stuff and things like that. And as now they are at their late teenage teenagers, and I felt like I really wanted to do a movie for them and and this story came from from Jeff. I didn't know anything about Trudy the other day before I read Jeff's brilliant script, and I was baffled at it. I didn't know about it because it was such a worldwide event when it happened 100 years ago, but she's been completely forgotten in time. So I almost, I felt like an obligation, almost, to retell her story. You know, because back in the day, I mean, in many ways, she changed women's sports forever, and it was such a trailblazer and and it had everything that I looked for in the in a in a in a story, basically,
it's so inspiring. I mean, and Jeff, for you, it's about, you know, overcoming a lot of odds. You sat with us for kind of a while, so what was the toughest hurdle for you that you had to overcome in getting this to life? Well,
this was an eight year journey, probably. So there's a lot of you know, this is not an easy movie to get made. And for me, I think it was this weird thing, because I had grown up in the 70s watching all these great movies that sort of inspired me. And hopefully, if you were inspired like tonight, where you came out of the theater and you just, you know, Rocky. And there's so many that when I was a kid that just blew my mind. And so I was literally trying to capture that specific feeling, which is a weird thing to try to do, but that's what I wanted to do, and that's what I kind of was hoping that we could. All figure out, and which is not an easy thing to do as we as we realize, but and then you realize you just need a certain kind of people that to go on that journey. And like I said, we just, I just got very lucky that the right people came along and and were willing to make the sacrifices that would take to go to Bulgaria, to do all the things we had to get it
made. I just want to add to that, in regards to getting people involved in this, because of this script, because of this story, we we were able to and because of Daisy as well coming on board, we were able to to get the best people we would everybody I wanted, basically in the in the team, to make this film, and it became such a passion project for everybody involved. And, you know, even though it's not really a low budget movie, you know, we shot everything in Bulgaria. There was, you know, we created the New York streets and everything. And Nora Ekberg, the production designer, was just tremendous. And, and everybody, really, you know, was, was so dedicated to telling the story. And,
I mean, you could have filmed this in a pool, I guess, but instead, you were like, No, we're going for it. We're going for the open water. And I imagine, you know, that's its own beast in itself. So can you talk about why you chose to do it that way, and what were some of the bigger challenges in that regard?
Well, I as many reasons for that. I feel I grew up in a Norwegian fjord, so I grew up by the water, and I love the ocean. But, you know, that's not the same as putting a full production out on the on the on the ocean. And I've done it before with another movie I'm I made, called the Contiki, and we were out there, and I just remember it so vividly, like I want to try to do that again, and especially with this story. And then, obviously, when we when Daisy and I started talking, I did warn her. I said, like, you know, you know, I really want to shoot it as real as we can out on the ocean. And are you? Are you ready for that? And she's, you're really, yes, let's do that. And then later, I learned that you actually have a pharaoh open water. And then you have to obviously go through months and months and months of training, learning open water swimming, and also how they swam, you know, 100 years ago, and you went through a crazy amount of stuff. And obviously, when we were out there weeks, week after week out in the elements, exposed every day you're in the water 6061, degrees your lips blue, you know, and always, and also acting, you know, it's not about only about the physical part of India, also delivering lines and being, you know, delivering an emotional, you know thing out there. And I just couldn't have asked for a better film partner than Daisy to be out there, because it is extremely I mean, any movie is difficult. Any endeavor that has a lot of ambitious people involved will always be tricky. But when you're out there, and I remember what I was the most nervous about was, like, the propellers, and, like, we have a lot of safety boats and stuff like that, but like, I saw Daisy, like, feet away from those propellers, and that's what you know, as we tried to keep you as little as possible in the in the water. But then I also realized, even in the white shots, I could feel that that was Daisy swimming, even in the white shot when there's no way I can see her face, because, you know, face, because she's face down in the water. But like, just the power of the strokes that you had, I felt you were channeling truly out there. And in many ways, I think that being out there, in many ways, informed us a little bit of how what she went through, like, you know, we just got a little piece of it, and I'm on a boat in the thick jacket, so I've gone through that but, but it's, it's just like it was. It felt so rewarding, you know, at the end of the day. I
mean, it is wild. Like, when you said, like, Oh, she's the first woman to swim across the angle show, and you're like, okay, cool. Like, she's gonna swim across. There's so much like, I would never consider, like the currents and the boats and the temperatures and the jellyfish and everything like that. So, I mean, can you talk, speak to a little bit about what was like? I mean, you're only in the not as long as Trudy, obviously. But what, what it really is like in that water?
Well, yes, I lied. I lied about feeling okay about the open water, because I wanted to play her and, you know, and it was, it was an interesting sort of psychological thing, because we had done the whole shoot up to the open water thing. We shot the open water at the end, so I was tired. And it was also the thing of, when you know something's coming and you're nervous about the thing that's coming, and it's looming, this incoming thing of nine days in the water, day after day after day. So a lot of it was the thing of, just. Over that. And to be honest, once I was in, I thought, okay, at least we're here. At least we're just doing the thing. You know, the punch is easier than the phrase, yeah, the punch is easier than the build up to the punch. I don't know, but, and my thing that I had said is I was not going to complain. I had an amazing group of people around me, and I knew that complaining would not help me, but there were times where Jo was like, Let's go again. Then I would get back to the safety boat and have a moment and warm up. But I also had an amazing team who were making sure I was my hair and makeup and costume team were amazing. And then had these wonderful safety boats. But it was also a strange life imitate Mark thing too, because a lot of the time I'm there in the sea by myself, but I would look to the right of me, and I would see Joakim up there, or if they were on camera, I'd see Stephen Kim and Tilda, and we were, you know, playing scenes like that. And then to the left of me, I could see the safety boat in the distance. So it's a strange thing of feeling very alone and isolated but also incredibly supported in the way that truly was. Not everyone was supported by that, but the people that were closer and loved her really were helping push her on her journey.
Yoga. You posted some behind the scenes footage at one point, and it's like Daisy was booking it in the water. So we're like, what when she comes all trained and ready to go. Were you like,
what the heck no,
like a speed boat to keep up with it. Yeah.
She, she, I, as I said, like the you had, they say, how the four star strokes that none of the professional swimmers or safety swimmers or standings had, so I ended up putting her in every shot, even though she was 100 yards from the camera. You know, so. But I also think that, or what I'm hoping, is that the audience can feel it somehow. You know, that we were out there, it's not on on green screens or blue screens and and, you know, besides the night, night stuff is too dangerous to be on the open water, so that's inside. But I feel that there's an interest in this kind of chaotic film making. Somehow, as
soon as she hits the water, I don't know about you guys, I was crying for the rest of the movie. It's like you can feel everything come together. And I got a shot at that score, by the way, it's incredible. But can you talk about some of, like, the technical aspects from your creative team and, like, maybe something that elevated the film that you weren't expecting? Well, I
again, like, I realized that, you know, Jess a man. I'm a man. Jerry Brooke hammer is a man and I, we were very lucky to have Daisy, but I really wanted to fill the heads of departments with women, because I wanted to somehow, you know, try to, I think we managed to have about, you know, 80% or something. So, I have this wonderful, wonderful team of Nora Ekberg, production designer, Amelia Warner, making the music, which was tremendous, una editing this movie. And it's really hard to you know, it's all on page. Honestly, it was all on page. But to edit this kind of build of a movie and and it's so fascinating to see how, especially when you have all of these montages, and it's just like, it's, it's very difficult, it's, it's a little bit, you know, tedious to shoot montages, because you only do little things here and there, and you're just hoping that you have an editor that can put it together, and you put and the right composer that can make the music. And we, I think we have, like, three or four or five montages in the movie, just to, you know, to show and which is, always, can, can be a risky business when you do a biopic, but I think you're not, you know, knocked it out of the park. And then, of course, Sean Wilson doing hair, hair makeup and and Gabriella binder doing wardrobe for us, and so. And then, and then I Oscar Fauci, the DP, who's who's been crossing oceans before with the impossible. And like, you know, that always helps a little bit, that you have people that has done things like that before. So so I just felt that that was so well taken care of, because we were all aiming so high.
I mean, it's wild, like you can go after this movie, go in a deeper rabbit hole. There's so much to her story. So Jeff, for you, what was something that was super important to you to keep in?
Well, the very first chapter of the book is the is that Slocum disaster, which is a ferry that that burned in the early part of the century, and I think almost seven 800 people. Died, and most were women. And so it was one of those weird things where I read, I had no idea what I was gonna read. I read the first chapter, and I immediately kind of stopped and went, oh my god, this is like, I had no idea that they didn't. They not. They literally did not teach women to swim. They just it. I couldn't imagine that and that all these women had died, and they were 20 feet from shore, 30 yards from shore, whatever it was. So you start to for me at that point, I start to realize, okay, all of this has to be and we have to build all this so people can understand that the swim, while a huge part of this was only half of this, you know, battle for her, because she was battling this tremendous, you know, the gender roles that were going on in this time, and so it was sort of a, you know, a dual thing going on for me to tell both stories and make sure that kind of came together at the right point.
Daisy, did you have something like that that was, I know you talked about the sister bond, but was there something and others like this is super important to Trudy's story that maybe you had to fight to keep in the movie or something,
I didn't have to fight. But one thing that was really important to me personally was I wanted to play someone who really wanted to do something outside of all the other reasons that it was important to do so, of course, in a social way, what she did was unbelievable, and in a gender way, what she did was unbelievable. But I also really wanted to honor the part of her, which must have just been like I wanted to swim, and so I'm swimming, and I wanted it to feel personal in a way that honored, I mean, to Jess point, of course, honored what she was fighting against in a real big way, but also someone who just loved doing what she was doing. And the reason she loved it at the beginning was because she wanted to be like her sister. So that, to me, was so beautiful, and I think it sort of marries with the intimacy of the story. And on the large scale, the personal versus the public, and her doing what she was doing, which she she really was a trailblazer, and without her, God only knows what would have happened then for women in sport, but also honoring that part of her that was really excited to just swim, that was something that felt important to me. Yeah, I love that.
I know, like a popular question is like, what do you hope audiences take away? But what was something that you took away from your experience working this film that will always you'll kind of always carry with you. I'm going to hear from each of you.
I think there was just a lot of love, and it was something that felt, I mean to Johans point about people. It was really a passion project for a lot of people. And there was time spent that people had to, you know, wait for production to go. There was just so much love that was poured into the film. And I think when we premiered it here a few months ago, to just be all together again was really beautiful. And particularly for the family, Jeannette, who plays my mom in it, what a woman, and Kim, who plays my dad in it. They were just such the bedrock of the whole film. And everything really exists around that apartment. I think, the love in that family and really spending time with a group of people who really love each other and have things to overcome that ultimately really love each other, that real life, feeling between us all I feel is represented in the film. And that feels very special.
I think, yeah, I mean, it's been the best experience I've ever had making a film. And you know, for me, simply put, it's about fighting for what you believe in. And that's what she did. And I always you know when you see any movie, you you you know that you know Tom Cruise is not going to fall off the plane and, you know, die or anything, just you kind of feel you should, your rational self knows some way down the line, this is going to go well. And I've done all the biopics, and I've done World War Two music, kind of, we kind of know the outcome. So for me, it's, it's about the journey. It's about, like, why, why truly did it, and how she did it, and like, just be a part of the journey, you know. And, and I hope I'm, you know, can can keep making movies like in store tell stories like this. I just
want to mention that, you know, because we talk a lot about DAISY swimming and how difficult it was. But for me, what I learned most is that what a performance can do for a movie, and how it can elevate a script, and what Daisy does to go from literally a child in the film who's screaming, nuts, nuts, to the greatest athlete on Earth by the end, is remarkable, and it's the swimming scenes are incredible, but in the scenes with her. Her mom, the seal, you know, sequence where she says, tonight, I was chased by a seal, the scene where she's with Sullivan, saying that she is going to meet him at the restaurant and meet his mom for dinner. And all that this the evolution that she does over the course of the film, the slow growth that she does is what stays with me? Because I didn't really see it on the page. I just thought, Oh, the actress will do whatever she do. But Daisy literally took this and in every scene, just slowly, slowly grew up before our eyes to become this incredible woman at the end. And so that, to me, is, is probably the thing that I take away most just watching her performance. So thank you, Daisy.
Okay, how do you think Trudy's perseverance can inspire audiences today?
I mean, I feel like it's really so hard to imagine what it was like 100 years ago when people were telling you no, and it really was no. And of course, that still happens now, but in the in that time, it really is in many ways beyond belief. And I think we all know anyone who's been told they can't do something, and then you do it, you're like, Oh my God, of course, the whole time you're thinking, maybe I can't do it, maybe I can't do it. And your bravery and your belief has to be bigger than the fear, and that is just something to be celebrated all over the world for all time. So I would, I would hope that we all feel a little like that in whichever way, whether you're swimming the channel or whether you're, I don't know, shooting a hoop for the first time or writing an essay that you don't want to write is such a it's so wonderful any story of triumph over adversity and just moments of bravery and moments of dedication for us all, i i
agree 100% of that. And I'm also a big believer in knowing our history, you know, to know where we're coming from, and and it's, it's not like we're all there yet, even, you know, I come from a country where one of the biggest sports is, is ski jumping and and we still don't let women compete in that. And the reason for that is that the women would beat the men because they're lighter. So it's a bunch of old guys sitting and designing that, you know. So it's still going on. And so I think, you know, it's just fascinating and shocking and and, yeah,
I have my next movie, which will be a ski jumping. Are you interested? But yeah, you know, what she did is impossible, and so it, I would hope it inspires people to, like you said, to try to just try whatever you want to do, but try, that's all I
want to thank you three for being here and sharing your amazing insights. Thank you so much for calling everybody just trying to do.
