This is Aspen Public Radio broadcasting on KAJX Aspen and KC JX. Carbondale. I'm Halle Zander here with you live at the Limelight Hotel in Aspen for a special hour long broadcast taking place during Aspen Gay Ski Week. The 47th annual event started last weekend and runs through this Sunday with a lineup that includes drag shows a downhill costume contest and many community gatherings. Aspen Gay Ski Week is also a nonprofit fundraiser for AspenOUT and other organizations that support the LGBTQ community. The Limelight is just starting to fill up with gay ski week attendees we expect it will get louder over the course of the hour. But yeah, everyone's here today for the aparece ski party. And for the next hour we'll be looking at the purpose behind this celebration. And we're joined by advocates and community leaders who will speak about LGBTQ culture, history and civil rights. And our first guest today is Kevin McManamon, the executive director of AspenOUT and my friend. The organization provides financial support to a wide range of LGBTQ causes in the Roaring Fork Valley, including mental health services and cultural fluency trainings, which focus on inclusive language and respect for different identities. They also fund performing and visual arts programs for creative expression. AspenOUT helps produce Aspen gay ski weekend as a primary beneficiary of the funds raised from this event. So Kevin is here to tell us more about this week's programming as well as how it supports astronauts mission. So Kevin, welcome to the show.
Hi, Halle, thank you so much for having me. This is exciting. This is the first time we've ever done live broadcasts from the Limelight. Yeah. And it's really fun. So, Aspen gay ski week. Wow, we're 47 years old, where we have 4000 guests in town. Yeah, we have 60 plus events scheduled over eight days. And and it's coming off smoothly, like once again, where I have the absolute best crew in town as far as producing this event.
Kevin, why don't you start us off with a brief history of aspen gay ski week. How did it begin here? Sure.
Absolutely. Aspen Gay Ski Week was created and founded by John Busch. Over Well, 47 years ago, this is our 47th anniversary. It was a group of guys in the East Coast and the West Coast. They got together in the middle for some fun skiing in Aspen. And about 24 years ago, we became a nonprofit. And all the money that we raised during Gay Ski Week, goes back to the LGBTQ community, either through grants, scholarships, or our direct programs to the community. Right,
and not everybody knows that this is a fundraiser or that you're doing work here year round. So tell us a little bit about the work.
Yeah. So in the past, we were we were specifically well, not specifically, but we're generally a pass through. Like we would hand out our funds to other LGBTQ nonprofits around the country, some national some statewide. And then we started about six years ago with our own programs. We have a scholarship program for kids graduating from high school, from Aspen to Glenwood Springs. We have education programs for mental health professionals. We support the GSAs that are in the schools. And this year, we have something new we have a leadership and scholarship program that is taking off. So we have a representative from every high school. And the kids have to attend. They have to attend, for instance, some of our lectures, they have to support their GSAs in their schools, gender and sexuality alliances. Gotcha. They have to participate in the community.
Amazing historically and still today, this event attracts mostly cisgender men. So what's your approach to inclusion and diversity at gay ski week?
That's a great question. When I joined the board, we only marketed to men. Big mistake, and now we mark it to the entire LGBTQ rainbow. And we have a we have more and more women every day or every year that come to Gay Ski Week. I have a transgender board member. So we're doing everything we can to include the entire community.
Now we're broadcasting from one of your happy hour events at the limelight, which take place every day throughout gay ski week. Yeah, they're free to attend. There's no cover charge. Yeah, what else can maybe a local queer person who's on a budget do to participate this week?
Yeah, so There are I know some of our our parties are pricey and they sell out really fast. But as you said, every day at the limelight, we pack the lobby. And it's free. Like there's no admission charge. We've expanded this year into Snowmass with apres, and with a party on Saturday night at The Collective, and that is $35. Not exactly free, but I think I think price is $35. There's still a few tickets left to that. That'll be over 200 people. And we're very excited to be expanding into Snowmass.
So tell me do you think that Aspen Gay Ski Week and other events like this can help foster more support and acceptance in our community?
It has, it always has. You know, I think Aspen has always been a welcoming community. And every year, I mean, the city loves us. ACRA loves us. The retailers and the restaurants. Love gay ski week because we bring so much to town. And when I say so much, I mean gay dollars.
Yes, Kevin, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate you being here.
Thank you for having me, Halle. Thanks.
That was Kevin McManamon, the executive director of AspenOUT. It's a local nonprofit that provides financial support to a number of different LGBTQ plus organizations in the state. And in the Roaring Fork Valley. Pattie Gonia, that's P A T T I E, is an intersectional environmentalist and a community organizer. But she's also a drag queen working to diversify the outdoors and the climate movement. You may have seen her on social media wearing impressively high heels and backpacking in beautiful places around the country, or in national publications like Time Magazine, The New York Times Vogue, and Outside Magazine, among others. But you might have also seen Pattie here in the Roaring Fork Valley giving presentations about their journey and drag and promoting intersectional environmentalism. Today, she's here to tell me a little bit about her story and the causes she's advocating for Patty, welcome to the show. Hello, Aspen. So good to be here. We're so happy to have you. So we spoke last summer when you were here speaking and performing at The Arts Campus at Willits. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about what your message was particularly what it means to be an intersectional? environmentalist?
I was here at TACAW, it was such a beautiful time. And the whole message was about just connecting people to the outdoors. I think that we're asking a lot of people to care about the environment. But we forget a very important important first step, which is to connect to the environment. So talking about queer people, especially diversifying the outdoors and really making it a space for themselves so that we can connect and then learn to fight for this thing. And after all, we fight for what we love, right?
So Pattie is your drag persona and you perform as her but when you're not in drag, you often walk through the world as Wyn Wiley, can you tell our listeners a little bit about your relationship with those two identities and how you fluctuate between them?
Yeah, drag is a queer art form where anything is possible. It's a playground of possibility, it's a playground of expression, I think I've really come into my identity as when through drag. And you know, believe it or not, I don't walk through the world wearing 10 pounds of makeup on my face. So it is, it's fun, and it's beautiful. And also it's it's really helped me get out of my shell, it's helped me connect to people, it's helped me form a community in a truly queer community. I think for a long time in my life, I really kept myself from having queer community from Nebraska, it's a very different place than where I am now in Bend, Oregon. And I feel really grateful for a drag as a as a opportunity to express myself, make community and have fun. I think that like we very much forget to just have fun these days. So it's my chance to play.
So you said you grew up in Nebraska. And as and you've talked about having somewhat of a difficult time growing up there and expressing your femininity in that rural space? What advice might you give to kids here in the Roaring Fork Valley, which is, in many places a rural space, who are struggling with that, too?
Hmm. You know, I think growing up queer, we always have to sacrifice pieces of who we are in order to make other people happy. And I think one of the biggest challenges and also opportunities and really brilliant parts of our life can be accepting who we are and not sacrificing pieces of ourself, and really allowing ourselves to be queer and feminine and fun. And it's amazing how when you let that in your whole world changes. So my advice would just be to be yourself and the world will never look the same. Yeah.
Can you talk a little bit about your journey finding a chosen family and what that means. Yeah,
I mean, I feel so lucky to have the chosen family that I have. My biological family is not necessarily there for me in all the ways that I need. So I'm really grateful for queerness. And for relationships that span across, across generations across different identities, it feels so fun. It is so beautiful. And yeah, I've also like never had better food in my life and cooked by my queer friends. So it's great queer people can cook.
We do well. When you came to Basalt this summer, your visit inspired some negative comments on social media, particularly on the Aspen Skiing Company's Instagram page. And you told me back then that it made you feel somewhat uncomfortable or unwelcome being in Aspen, but you're here now. So how do you wrestle with that?
Yeah, I think there's safety and strength in numbers, right? It feels really good to be here in community to have queer community come here to also see such an amazing turnout of the local queer community in the valley. And, yeah, I think I've really come to learn that if you are getting some hate, you're doing something right. In this world, you are making people uncomfortable. And I think that, yeah, for me, I am here to spread love spread joy spread community. And if people have a problem with that, it sounds like a personal problem.
And now you're spreading music, what got you into singing? And what made you feel comfortable enough, sharing some of that music with the world?
Well, my first love was music, it was the first thing that I feel like I really found that was an arts safe space. For me. I studied music in college, I studied opera. So we're kind of coming out of the closet as a musician in a way too. And it's been so fun and beautiful. And my favorite part about it is it's just been so collaborative, you get to create with such talented people that come from so many different backgrounds, and really make each song as like a little ecosystem. So it's been really special.
So you just use the term coming out of the closet to talk about being a musician, do you think that coming out is an experience that more than just the LGBTQ community has?
Yeah, for sure. I think queer people experience coming out, uniquely. But I think that we all have closets to come out of no matter if that is a really tough conversation with yourself or ending a relationship that is not serving you or realizing that you need a different home environment, home ecosystem, I think those are all coming out. And I think the craziest part about coming out is that when you come out of the closet, that's just the beginning baby, you have so many more closets to come out of and I feel like I've come out of many more classes, I feel like starting to do drag in a big way was a huge coming out as well. Like even though I was out of the closet, I think when I came out, and a lot of ways I went further back in, I think I I thought that I could be this acceptable gay person and someone that still people were okay with. And through drag, I've really found myself and I've really found my path. And I've really, yeah, led to making some people feel maybe some different ways. But it's been fun. It's been worth it. Yeah.
So you've used the term rainbow washing before, which essentially means that someone or an organization uses a queer person to try to look inclusive or to try to seem queer friendly, when they're not really doing the advocacy work. And it makes me think about the rainbow flags that dominate the city of aspen during Gay Ski Week, I really love seeing rainbows dominate the town. But then I also wonder how much of a show it is and whether it's for marketing purposes, you know, companies stand to make a lot of money this week, by seeming gay friendly. So how might a company or a person and asked and really show up to support the queer community this week and, and for the whole year?
I'm glad you're bringing that up. I think that there's a lot of performative allyship in this world. But I think that there's such an opportunity for people year round to start it relationships. I think with relationships, you can build trust, and through trust, you can really collaborate and make a difference. And you can make people feel really welcome. And it can be genuine, right? And without relationship, you have tokenization, you have a lot of people that don't trust each other. And I don't want to live in an ecosystem like that. I want an ecosystem that communicates well, that realizes that every single piece has an important role to play and supports each other. I think there's a lot we can learn from nature in that. So yeah, my invitation is just for people to be really relationship based, right? Because I think that oftentimes when it comes to ally ship, when it comes to really showing up all year round, I think a lot of people are scared to do the wrong thing. But I think it's really important to remember that inaction is an act of choice, right? Like not doing something is doing something so So I would invite people to try and fail and try again. Or in Pattie's world, walk in heels, fall in heels, get up and walk again.
You had a big campaign raising money around giving Tuesday and you used some fun, pretty unconventional tactics. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Yes, yes, this is the fifth year, fifth year, we've done this GivingTuesday fundraiser where we raise money for six different BIPOC and queer outdoor nonprofits. It's so fun.
Can you tell our listeners who might not know what BIPOC means?
Yeah. BIPOC means black, indigenous and people of color. So a lot of organizations that might not necessarily get all the notoriety for doing the work better doing such incredible work to diversify the outdoors. So for this fifth year, I normally do it in drag every year, but I just decided to switch things up. So for every $100,000, we raised, I took off an item of clothing, and we raised like, over $400,000, so I didn't have to get totally naked. And it was beautiful and very motivating for the queer people that follow me to donate. All right.
Well, what are your plans? While you're here? Where can festival goers find you?
Oh, my gosh, you can find me getting sunburned everywhere outdoors. You can find me in drag tomorrow at the downhill ski. You can also find Halle maybe also skew what
it may be. Oh my gosh, but they won't recognize me. No one's ever seen me.
Exactly. They won't recognize me either, I'm going to look different. But yeah, it's gonna be so fun. And I just got done with hiking the HIghlands Bowl and doing the Highlands Bowl back there. Like 30 minutes ago, I was skiing downhill and powder. And now I'm here across the table from you. So what can be more perfect?
That was Pattie Gonia, a climate activist, LGBTQ advocate, community organizer and drag queen. Patti, thank you so much for joining me.
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Yeah. Wow. So it's really getting much busier and here but we're excited to move along. Our next guest has our next guest has a lot of lines on their resume. Kevin Jennings is the CEO of Lambda Legal, which represents LGBTQ people and everyone living with HIV as legal advocates across the country fighting for civil rights. But Kevin began working as an advocate and a teacher in 1988, when he helped start the first ever school based gay straight alliance club, now often referred to as gender sexuality alliances. He's the founder of the Gay Lesbian and Straight Education Network or GLSEN, and he served as an assistant secretary of education for President Obama. Kevin has written seven books has helped write and produce documentaries, and chairs, various boards and all of this spare time he seems to have really, you're you seem like a slacker. Actually, Kevin, welcome to the show.
Thank you, Halle, it's really good to be here.
So tell our listeners what kind of work Lambda Legal does.
Essentially, Lambda Legal leverages the courts to win equal rights for LGBTQ plus people and everyone living with HIV. What that really means is we bring lawsuits, and we win, and gay people get more rights. So our probably the best example of this is our decision to 2015. At the Supreme Court, Obergefell versus Hodges, which won equal marriage rights for LGBTQ plus couples. So that's what we do.
Yeah. So I know you weren't working there at the time. But tell us a bit about lambdas involvement in the marriage equality case. And what role did you all play?
launched its marriage project back in the 1990s. And for over 20 years, we work to advance the cause of marriage equality. And I'll be really honest with you, I wasn't working at lambda at the time. But when lambda lawyers approached me in the 90s, and told me they were going to win marriage equality. I said, That's very nice. That won't happen in our lifetime. But as it often has led to legal proved the doubters wrong. And in 2015, they won marriage equality, something that I quite honestly thought I would never see.
Right. But you know, looking at right now, the the current conservative Supreme Court, do you think that this decision could be under threat?
I think that everything that Lambda has watched over the last 50 years is at risk in the Dobbs decision, which overturned abortion rights two years ago, Justice Thomas called outright for the overturning of Obergefell, which gave us marriage equality, and another lambda victory called Lawrence vs. Texas, which abolished sodomy laws. So he wants to take us back to the 1950s. So we are very, very concerned. And we're being very vigilant to make sure that we don't see our rights roll back. After all Lambda Legal started this fight 1973 We've been at it for over half a century. We're not going to give up everything we've won now. Right.
So what's on the docket? Now, as you look ahead, what are some of the big cases you're working on?
Yeah, well, it's really interesting because we're facing a national assault on LGBTQ plus rights. Since January 1 250. Anti LGBTQ plus bills have been introduced in 20 different states and Most state legislators aren't even in session yet. The fact of the matter is that a lot of states these bills are going to pass. So it falls to Lambda Legal to get them struck down in court, we serve as the community's last line of defense.
So can you tell me any specific case or
I was in court in Denver yesterday. In Oklahoma, one of your neighboring states, which, by the way, in 2024, has already introduced at New anti LGBT laws, Oklahoma banned trans people from correcting their documents to reflect their accurate names. So, sadly, we lost round one in the Oklahoma court. But we were in court again here in Denver, in the 10th circuit yesterday, we will keep fighting all the way to the Supreme Court if we have to defend the rights of our community. Right.
So as you said, Oklahoma, right, yes. 18, anti LGBTQ cases are here, ballot initiatives, whatever else? How does neighbor how does it affect us here in Colorado, when a neighboring state is trying to rollback civil rights for the LGBTQ community?
Well, that's really good question. Here in Colorado, you're very lucky, you have a progressive governor, obviously at a progressive state legislature. So you're one of 14 states that has what's called a shield, or refuge law, which guarantees the rights of trans people to get medical care, regardless of where they come from, and protects them for prosecution in their home states. Unfortunately, most of the states bordering Colorado, Ban medical care for trans youth, so those youth are now coming to Colorado to get the medical care they need to survive. So it's very, very important to realize that while you may not see these laws passed in Colorado, you're gonna see an impact in Colorado, because it's going to overburden the health care system in your state, because these people can't get the health care they need in their own states.
How do you stay hopeful among this onslaught of anti LGBTQ legislation?
Well, I started my career, as you mentioned, as a history teacher many years ago. So let me go back a little bit in history when Lambda Legal was started in 1973. It was illegal to be gay in 43 states. We thought that it took us 30 years, but we finally changed that at the Supreme Court in Lawrence vs. Texas, Texas in 2003. And the idea of marriage equality when we started was laughable. Well, now same sex couples get married. If you look at the history of Lambda Legal and what we've accomplished, you have to feel hopeful, we have changed the world of the last 50 years. And if it takes us another 50 to finish the fight, we'll do it. Okay,
so let's go back in time a little bit. As I said earlier, you created the first school based gay straight alliance club. Tell me a little bit about that experience. Where did you do it? And why? Well,
I was a teacher in Concord, Massachusetts, which is a suburb of Boston. And I had a young gay student come to me and tell me that he was thinking of killing himself. I was 24 and totally over my head. And he said to me, why shouldn't I kill myself, my life isn't worth saving. Anyway, that made me determined that I whatever I did with the rest of my life, I was gonna work to make sure that the next generation of LGBT kids did not grow up feeling like that. So I got up in an assembly a couple of weeks later came out to the entire school. This is November 1988. Ronald Reagan is president. It's a very different time. And the next day, a young girl stormed into my office and said she wanted to start a club to fight homophobia. I said, Well, what do you want to call this club? As she said, I don't know you're gay. And I'm straight. Let's call it the Gay Straight Alliance. And there now Gay Straight Alliance is an over half of American high schools. So there's been enormous progress in the last 36 years. And while there still are many challenges, the world is much better at was that when we started this work in the 70s, and 80s,
yeah, you know, I went to high school and Nashville, Tennessee, and we did have a gay straight alliance, you know, back in the 2008 2009, but it wasn't allowed to meet on campus or during school hours. So, you know, slowly but surely, we're seeing, you know, we're seeing this become more accepted. But I doubt
if there are any kids who have GSAs, who are listed, land illegal water laws who do 1000 That guarantees your right to have a GSA at your school. So you can call us at 1833 I say gay, and one of our attorneys will respond to you and make sure that you know your rights so that if your school's giving you a hard time you have we will help protect you
Kevin, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it.
It is such a pleasure to be here and enjoy ski week.
Thank you. That was Kevin Jennings, an author, educator, nonprofit leader and LGBTQ plus advocate. If you want to hear more from Kevin he's part of a panel at 5pm this afternoon at the belly up called Talk Looks like these. And it is really starting to kick up in here the I you know the background noise is getting louder the DJ is playing. But I have our next guest here in the seat with me Janet Gordon. She has over 20 years of experience working as a therapist providing counseling to individuals, couples and groups. And she received a certificate from Widener University as an LGBTQ affirmative therapist and has experienced supporting youth and adults across the gender spectrum. Janet, welcome to our show.
Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. Thanks for doing this.
So you started an LGBTQ support group in the Roaring Fork Valley in partnership with AspenOUT a while ago. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got that started?
Yeah. Well, it started about 10 years ago, I was actually helping out at the Hope Center at the time as well. And, you know, it's a 24 hour crisis line. And we'd get calls occasionally from LGBT youth going, I'd like, you know, I'm struggling, I'm depressed, I'm anxious. And then I'd be like, Okay, let me get you a specialist. And then the only specialists around are either in Denver or Salt Lake, you can't really tell a 14 year old in the middle of winter drive to Denver, especially, they're not feeling comfortable being out. So it's kind of one of those things of like, oh, there's a need, let's fill it. And I happen to be friends with the then director of aspen out. And one night, I was sitting there with a friend whose son was struggling. And I got up said to my friend, hey, we have youth that are struggling in this valley that are LGBT, what can we do about it? And luckily, he said, What do you want to do about it? And I said, Let's start a support group. And he said, Okay, we're in. And since then it's just grown.
So what does your training in LGBTQ affirmative care teach you about working with trans and gender non conforming clients?
Um, as far as you know, it's about creating not just accepting space. It's about creating affirming space. You know, there's, there's lots of places that say, oh, yeah, no, we don't exclude anyone. We don't, you know, we were, we're accepting. But there's a difference between accepting an affirmation and being affirming counselor, or affirming space, in general means that I've educated myself, I've taken time to learn not just from asking people questions, but reading articles, talking to doctors, and getting the education so that I can provide the knowledge that if people have questions, families have questions, folks have questions, and I can connect them to the resources they need.
So what do you feel like LGBTQ plus kids are dealing with nowadays in this resort community?
I mean, the, you know, I was just looking as I came up here today, there are actively 300, anti trans bills in the legislatures around the country. And now 30 states have anti trans bills. You know, and the kids, the youth, and adults, they see this, they hear this, they, I mean, get this vibe from place, the states that they don't have the right to exist. And so it's so important to create safe spaces and affirming spaces. It's so important to be active in doing that. Yeah.
How do you help them get through that?
How do I help them get through that? It's a great question. I mean, I think, first of all, everyone wants to be seen and heard. And so my, my first job is to create a space where I bear witness and I give these youth and adults, a sounding board. And from place of acceptance. You know, these kids are awesome, and who they are these folks, you know, trans non binary, they deserve to have safety. And to create safe all of us want to feel safe. And there's a lot of people out there who aren't letting trans and non binary folks be safe right now. And so it's up to all of us to actively do that. Right.
So LGBTQ students are often at a higher risk of self harm and suicide than the general student population. Why do you think that is?
Well, I think, you know, look, it's a cisgender heterosexual balance favored world, right? Like, I as a sis hat. Woman never had to come out. I never had to worry that my Sexual Orientation wasn't going to be accepted. That's just a struggle I didn't have. And so all you know, anyone who identifies as any letter of the rainbow at some point has to come out most likely, you know, or they live in the closet, you know, but like, it's more hurdles, you know, privilege isn't that we privileges is an absence of hurdles. And LGBTQ folks have more hurdles. You know, they can't put a they can't put a picture of their partner on their desk necessarily and have that be okay. They have to question that. Is that gonna be okay? The same thing with kids, you know, high schoolers, it's hard enough being a teenager today, let alone having to worry about am I going to be accepted?
So tell us a little bit about The Space in Glenwood.
So The Space is a collaboration with YouthZone and AspenOUT and it's a safe space for LGBTQ ai plus youth. It's weekly in Rifle and Glenwood and Willits and anyone who's interested, any, any parents have kids that are interested, Just call YouthZone. And I mean, we don't. It's it's a support group. So it's a safe space, we play cards, we hang out, they show, you know, they show me their the tiktoks that they like to watch and the games and the clips. I mean, it's it's really just an accepting place for LGBTQ plus youth to meet other folks.
Is there anything else that you want to add before we wrap up here?
Yeah, I guess the one thing I just want to say is, being an ally is an active thing. And I encourage everyone who's listening right now, if you identify yourself as an ally, to start being active in it, it's not okay to just be passive right now in our society. Be active, put a rainbow flag, put a sticker up, you know, say I'm affirming not just I am accepting. Gay for good, by the way is a great way to do that. We are a volunteer organization, we partner with other nonprofits in the valley to build community. So look us up gay for good at the Rocky Mountains. I'm on the board. So that's my little pitch there. And if anyone needs counseling, please reach out. Ask now provides an amazing scholarship for counseling. So anybody who identifies as any letter under the rainbow or their families, we are here to help you.
That was Janet Gordon and LGBTQ affirming therapist here in the Roaring Fork Valley. Janet, thank you so much for joining us today.
Thank you for having me.
You've been listening to Aspen Public Radio's special live broadcast about LGBTQ culture, history and community in case you're just joining us. I'm your host, Halle Zander. It's Aspen Gay Ski Week, and we're here at the Limelight Hotel during one of the daily apres ski parties. This is just one of the many events on the Gay Ski Week lineup, which also includes drag shows a downhill costume contest, and an infamous pool party at the Aspen rec center. There's also events more focused on community bonding, activism and mental health. For this special live broadcast. We've been speaking with LGBTQ advocates and leaders about their stories and the issues they care about. And next up, we've got Kathy Potter, I want to turn our attention to her. She is the mother of Jack Holden Raife, who died at the early age of 18. In April last year, Jack took his own life last spring and since then, Kathy has started a memorial fund in his name, raising money for queer youth in need of long term mental health resources. Kathy, thank you so much for joining us today.
Thank you so much for having me.
And it was a little last minute. I'm glad we got you on the line.
Thank you.
So tell us a bit about who Jack was.
Um, my son. It was it's also interesting because I think the battles and the challenges that he was going through in the years leading up to, you know, us losing him. I think he just felt very alone. I think he felt he, Jack was definitely suffering from some mental health issues. With that said he was an incredibly talented pianist. He was an incredibly talented artist. He chose the most amazing group of friends that were his closest friends. But I think he just felt just lonely a lot of the time. And after we last checked, we had a service there were over 400 people at his memorial. And so I think, you know, that just speaks volumes to who he was. So, you know, it just, it's, it's, it's, it's we could have, we could have either at the loss of him destroy us or try to take, it takes something good as or whatever good we could pull out of this and try to help families with other, you know, LGBTQ plus kids in crisis that just became a mission. Yeah, yeah,
I first of all want to just thank you for, for sharing that. With us here on live radio. I know it's not easy. But I think you're you're really honoring his his sparkle and his -
And that's exactly it. Yeah. And it's amazing how many people continue to carry, you know, his torch of love and acceptance for everybody. And, you know, just all of that again, and people call me still all the time wanting to do scholarships and his names and a couple of our friends, our close friends here in the valley are actually going to run the Denver Marathon may 19. And they called me and asked if they could turn it into a fundraiser for Jack's fund and wear T shirts with a QR code where people can donate right there. It's just, it's just, it's amazing how many people he really touched. And if he could have seen that, you know, that just would have been, would have just been amazing. And any, he he just couldn't see it.
So what inspired you to create the Jack Raife Memorial Fund?
Um, after he passed away, I, I was a military brat. And so I have friends all over the United States. And an awful lot of my friends were reaching out saying we can't make it to the memorial, but we'd like to donate money, what can we do? And so a friend of mine, originally a friend of mine from Denver, who one of my best friends said, maybe we could start a GoFundMe. So then I reached out to Catherine Johnson, who's the bookkeeper for AspenOUT who was a longtime dear friend of mine, and asked her about it. And she said, don't do anything yet. She spoke to Kevin and within 24 hours, they had set up the Jack Raife Memorial Fund through AspenOUT that so that every single donation was tax deductible. But yeah, it was just really trying to do something with our pain to to, you know, turn something I it was on the front page of a few of the local papers, and it just kind of it was kind of an organically grown motto for the Memorial Fund of turning our pain into power. And that's ultimately what we've tried to do.
So it seems like you've already distributed some of the money from the fund. You've distributed some of the money from the fund to already where has it gone?
We have given out $10,000 scholarships, and I believe we've done 14 Of those, mostly to local kids. And there were a few in the state outside of the valley, but in the state of Colorado, just to give people insight and understanding. In the 14 months leading up to losing Jack, he had been in treatment for those 14 months. And most of those programs were a bout $12-17,000 a month, people don't realize the exorbitant cost of getting your kids in the best treatment programs. And so. So all every single penny that has been raised to date has been given out in $10,000 scholarships, to families who just are in desperate need of financial support to help their kids.
Do you have any messages for queer youth in our region who might be struggling or parents who are struggling to find ways to support their queer kids?
Right? There are just so many people that want to support that want to that want to be there for the kids. And I think when the kids are feeling that lost and lonely, they just did I think they feel very isolated. I think you know, teachers that you trust. If your parents don't support you, you know, find one of your friends, parents who support you find people that love you, um, Aspen out is all about helping the LGBTQ youth in this valley. You could always reach out to Aspen out. But but everybody matters. And even when you feel like you don't matter you do and I think Jack is a perfect example of that. Exactly. Yeah, so
Kathy, your words are moving. Thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it.
I'm so honored to have been asked to be a part of this. Thank you. Yeah,
That was Kathy Potter, who founded the Jack Raife Memorial Fund in honor of her late son. We really appreciate her being here. Now joining me next is Bryan Alvarez-Terrazas. By day he's the deputy director of Manaus, a social justice nonprofit and the project manager of the Equity Action Project. The project is focused on building a community of people and organizations who are committed to dismantling oppressive systems. Alvarez-Terrazas is also a board member of Alpine Legal Services and an active community volunteer. But even more than that, he's the co-founder of a local drag troupe, The Roaring Divas, which began in the summer of 2022. He sometimes performs as the drag queen Ramona Chingona. Bryan, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. So
Brian, tell me how you started the Roaring Divas. what was your inspiration?
Yeah, my inspiration was really, you know, being born and raised here in the Roaring Fork Valley, I didn't grow up seeing any or very much representation from the queer community, especially the Latino Latino community. And so I left for college, learned a lot went to my first drag show came back to the valley. Inspired, right inspired wanting to see more of that, and finding none of it here. Right. And so I think that that was really a big motivating factor for me was, you know, how can I bring this here? How can I bring this community or like, strengthen this community and its visibility and his presence in the region that I grew up in?
Right. So you're mostly a self-taught drag queen, which I imagine is how most people get into it. But how did you learn?
a lot of YouTube videos and a lot of trial and error? If anything more trial and error, then YouTube videos, so slowly, but surely just kept building those skills? Yeah.
So you grew up here in Glenwood Springs? What was that like growing up in the Roaring Fork Valley as a queer person?
Yeah, very isolating, at least, you know, when I was growing up here, I went to Aspen Middle and High School and about three people knew that you know, who I really was that I was queer identified as that. And so I didn't feel very encouraged or supported to bring my full self to express myself fully growing up in this community. But then, you know, I came out to my parents, so they they dropped me off at college, which, you know, I have some thoughts about that. But it kind of opened that door. And college was really where I found the space and community to explore who I was.
So what's it been, like, coming back now and interacting with your family?
Yeah, moving back to the valley, you know, I started living with my family again. And through that, I started to feel like I needed to start hiding myself, again, start hiding who I was being ashamed of that identity. And so I got to a sort of breaking point where I was like, you know, I'm tired of feeling ashamed of who I am. And I want to switch that feeling from shame to empowerment. Right. And so that was really what also led to the formation of the Roaring Divas, and for me as a starting drag queen was how do I stand in who I am and what I bring to the table rather than be ashamed from it.
So have you found that chosen family here in the Roaring Fork Valley?
I have I had two other co founding members of the Roaring Fork Valley, Zen Fatale and Zaddy Adams so we had our very first show at TACAW, shout out to them for hosting us and taking a chance on us as well. And, you know, it's it's been growing that family ever since. So really grateful for that. And we've connected with drag queens from Avon, Denver, Grand Junction, Durango, all these different places. So it's been really incredible to, to build that community here and then to also connect with other rural queer communities. Yeah.
So why did you decide to pursue forming the Roaring Divas as a group as opposed to going after a solo career?
I think a big piece of it was that community focus of like, I don't think I can. And I don't think I should do this alone. Right. And so I wanted to empower others to join me in this journey of self discovery, man of self empowerment. And through that process, you know, it started as an idea of like, I don't know how I'm going to do this, but I know I want to be a drag queen. And I know I want to host a drag show. And slowly but surely that idea kept snowballing until you know, it became what it is today.
Has the Roaring Divas helped you reconnect with your family or made it harder?
I think yes and no. Yes, with some family members, in the sense that it really strengthens our relationship, because I knew that I could trust them. I knew that they really accepted me for who I was, and understood why doing drag was so important to me. On the flip side, I have family members that told me upfront, like, I'm not going to support you in this and I'm not gonna go to any of your events. And so I think that that was really tough to kind of deal with, especially at the onset. But for me, it also really solidified for myself, like, I want to do this and I'm not willing to compromise it for anyone.
So how would you say the queer community has changed here since you were young? Yeah,
it's it's become a lot more visible. I think. We sort of came in as a warning diva as at the same time, that gay for good and PFLAG and all these other groups really started to activate their bases and all that kind of stuff. We actually helped organize the very first Pride in Glenwood Springs two years ago. And so that was a really incredible process to be a part of that movement, that journey in the town that I was born in.
Okay, so your drag persona is Ramona Chingona. And so how did you choose her name? And what's she like? What's she all about?
Ramona Chingona is everything. I definitely get a lot of inspiration from her. You know, it's just exudes confidence, excuse to beauty. So I'm really grateful to Ramona. And the reason why I chose Ramona Chingona as a name is that I really wanted to pay homage to my Mexican heritage, I wanted to have a name that had Spanish in it in some form. And I said, you know, I started with the word Chingona, which in Spanish means, you know, you know, a really strong woman in other terms, but I wanted to keep that as part of my name. And then I was like, okay, Ramona is the first one, and it's sort of just came together.
That's great. So your crew has hosted parties and drag brunches around the Roaring Fork Valley, but one of your events was in celebration of Hispanic Heritage Month, and you used the term Latine as an alternative for the gender inclusive term, Latinx, or Latinx. Tell us a bit about that. Why did you choose that word?
Shout out to you for being a part of that and interviewing me back then, too. So yeah, kind of full circle. Yeah. I think the reason why let the nays a word that resonates more with me personally, is that it really flows a lot better, in my opinion, phonetically, I think it's a lot easier to say Latine than Latinx especially when you're speaking in Spanish. So for me, it just kind of feels more organic, more something that I can identify with.
So how do you hope to grow the Roaring Divas in the future?
You know, I was looking at our books, doing the accounting and of your accounting and all that kind of stuff. And I saw that, at the beginning of last year, we had one event maybe every other month. But now we have multiple events every month. And so it's kind of been really cool to see that growth, have our incredible hosts, businesses that are hosting us helping us have these events. And so yeah, hoping to continue to grow, continue to grow the group itself, have more performers keep bringing more people into the drag folds, and hopefully continue to perform all throughout the state.
Amazing. Anything else you want to add? Before we wrap up here?
I just want to say we have an event tomorrow at marble distillery shout out to them. It's going to be a Disney karaoke night. And then we also have an event February 3 at TACAW, where we're bringing for drag queens from Grand Junction who are gonna compete against the Roaring Divas and lipsync smackdown.
All right. Well, that was Bryan Alvarez-Terrazas, who also known as drag queen Ramona Chingona of the Roaring Divas. Thank you so much for joining me today, Bryan.
Thank you so much for having us.
All right, we're coming up. We've got a little over 10 minutes left in our live broadcast today. Joseph Hahn is here with me today. Hi, Joseph. He has built a career as an estate planner and financial advisor often working with LGBTQ plus people as they think about their future. He's now the executive director of wealth planning and advice for JP Morgan. And he's published several white papers that identify the challenges LGBTQ people face, both financially and legally as they plan for their future and getting older. Hahn's research explores everything from health care costs to hostile family members to life insurance and credit issues for transgender people. And he joins us today to talk about those challenges and how to address them. So Joseph, welcome to the show.
Thanks so much for having me.
So we'll get into your white papers in just a moment. But I'd like to start with your own experience. How did you end up in the world of estate planning specifically for LGBTQ people?
Well, I am a gay man, and an estate planning attorney for about 25 years, a lot of that time I spent in the Palm Springs area, where I would say at least half my clientele were members of the LGBTQ population. So I doubt there's many people in the United States who have drafted more estate plans for that population than I am and having it be a personal issue. We used to have to do extraordinary things for clients before same sex marriage became legal. And the impression was that after the Supreme Court decision that legalized same sex marriage nationwide, that all those problems would go away. And what I know for a fact is that the planning is still really different for LGBTQ persons, not because of the law so much, but just because of the way that people perceive this community of privately held biases, some state and local governments that are targeted in these communities. And so the papers that we've written have been designed to shine a light, that there are still differences and that for professionals who are working with this population, they need to be aware of it. It's not that they have to, like reinvent the wheel, but there are issues that they need to be aware of, and I think there's a complacency out there that we wanted to address and show these problems do have practice. Typical solutions if they're made aware of to the general public
Right. Now, your white papers and research have identified a lot of different challenges and unique circumstances that LGBTQ people face in this realm, from considering chosen family to finding caregivers and old age. Can you tell us more about what you found?
Yeah, so the statistics are a little bit depressing. LGBTQ persons are half as likely to be in a relationship in their senior years, they are twice as likely to have no adult children. And so the natural caregivers of most of us when we get into our senior years, are typically not going to be present for many members of this community. And even if they have family members, in many cases, those relationships can be as strange. So every LGBTQ person would tell you, they have a family of choice of people who are supportive family members, friends, community members, those families are just as tight as biological families, in some cases tighter. But no law in the US recognizes the concept of family of choice. So one of our suggestions for this population is you need to think about period of time in your life, when you will need caregiving, you need to formally talk to your family of choice, and you need to empower them legally, with documents like financial powers of attorney, HIPAA waivers, all the documents that a friend would need, that a spouse would have by default or a child. Those don't exist. And so by taking extra steps, you can make sure that your family of choice is there when you need it.
Right. So it's not about queer people not having family members or not having people that care about them in their old age, it's just that the legal system hasn't adjusted to Yeah, to naturally support that at this point.
Right. We've also found incredible problems in the context of long term care settings. So there is no federal law that protects LGBTQ persons period, there's certainly no federal law that protects them in public housing and accommodations. So there are many long term care settings, where the pervasive fear is that you'll be forced back into the closet in your senior years, and or be abused by staff members who don't approve, or potentially be kicked out. There's many states that allow these facilities to have a religious exemption for discrimination. And so this concept needs to be well aware in this community so that they can start early in finding supportive care facilities, planning for the increased cost of that, or hopefully finding a way to get in home care. So
You have an upcoming white paper on the issues that transgender people face in particular, especially when their government IDs or credit documents don't match their gender identity or their chosen names. So what are the implications of that?
What we have found is that is this is a fundamental and serious problem for the gender transgender community. And it's at the base of almost every negative outcome that that community faces, they face widespread discrimination in the context of employment, of housing of credit. And a lot of it has to do with the fact that they cannot get an accurate document issued by the government that shows their chosen name and their gender identity as opposed to the identity they were assigned at birth. Without an accurate identity document, it compromises your ability to get on an airplane, to vote, to use a credit card to apply for a job to apply for housing, because those when you present an inaccurate ID you're looked at and they think you're engaged in fraud. And our research shows that two thirds of transgender non binary people don't have a single piece of identification that accurately reflects their gender identity. That is a huge problem. And in some states, it's easy to fix. And in some states, for example, they require you to provide proof of surgery, that surgery that some people might not have any interest in or can't afford. And some states make it totally 100% impossible to do this at all.
Do you think that the average LGBTQ person or just the average person has a grasp on these challenges?
No. I was completely surprised when I started this research at how important that issue is, and how it cascades down into numerous other problems. And so until we address this issue of accurate identity documents, a lot of the other problems are going to persist,
Right. Do you think that laws protecting marriage equality made a big difference? I'm sorry, do you think marriage equality made a big difference?
OK, so marriage equality made a huge difference and I think our community fought for marriage equality for years, as the sine qua non of you know, if we achieve that, we will have achieved everything. And now it's clear, it's not enough. It's good. It's also at risk. Because marriage equality was established by a court decision. What we've seen recently in the Dobbs decision is that our Supreme Court can reverse precedent with no notice. So our advice to clients is do not rely on default rules that give your spouse the right to make these decisions for you, because those rights can be taken away in a second by a future Supreme Court decision. So what's better congressional legislation, legislation would be great, a constitutional memo, it'd be great. But in even in the absence of those kinds of changes, just estate planning, engaging in an estate planning process, creating a will a trust, a power of attorney, a health care directive, because the government can't take away those rights, they're not dependent on papon being married. So even for clients who are married in a state where they think that their rights are secure, we encourage them engage in an estate planning process.
So over the course of your career, have you seen signs of progress?culturally or legally?
Yeah.
. Okay, what does that look like?
Absolutely, the news is not all bad. So for example, in the last 20 years, the number of employers who value having a totally diverse workplace that includes LGBTQ persons, has gone from 3% to 95%. Employers recognize they cannot get the best and the brightest employees if they don't have progressive work environment and policies. And that, that applies through their entire employment system from hiring, to retention to business resource groups. And so that is positive. The issue about accurate identity documents, there are some green shoots that are give us hope. For example, the United States government in 2021 went from having the most restrictive policy on getting a reissued passport to having the world's most progressive policy. So now you don't have to provide proof of medical treatment, you don't have to provide proof that you've gone through a surgical transition, you sign a document, you say, This is my stated name. This is my gender identity. You can choose an M and F or an X for our non binary people, and they will issue it. So our advice to people in this community is immediately apply for a new passport and use that as your primary means of identification because it's much easier to get than a birth certificate or driver's license, which in some states aren't available at all.
Right? Well, I've been speaking with Joseph Hahn, who has published several white papers on the unique financial challenges that LGBTQ people face as they plan for their future. Thank you so much for joining me today, Joseph.
Totally. My pleasure. Thanks so much.
It's been great. You've been listening to Aspen Public Radio's special live broadcast about LGBTQ culture, history and community during Aspen Gay Ski Week. I'm your host, Halle Zander, we've been speaking with drag queens community leaders and national advocates about the issues that are important to them. If you missed any part of this broadcast, you'll be able to find a recording of the entire hour archived on our website, that's aspenpublicradio.org later tonight. This broadcast was sponsored in part by the Gay & Lesbian Fund for Colorado. Special thanks to our production team for this show. Kaya Williams, James Barrs, Breeze Richardson, Caroline Llanes, Lauri Jackson, Lea Tucker and Kelsey Brunner Thanks to the Limelight Hotel for hosting us today. And thank you to all the guests who joined us on our program.