Hi. I'm Dee Newland, and welcome to the business of intuition. Where I coach, facilitate, train and speak on the hard science and meaningful experience of intuitive leadership in business. So you can make better decisions, forge real connections, and creatively solve problems, to amplify your impact and simplify your life. Welcome to the business of intuition. The foremost researcher and probably most published person on the subject of meeting management is a guy named Vogel Berg out of South Carolina. And he wants said, and I am paraphrasing, that the perceived quality of a meeting is equal to and has a big influence on that person's overall job satisfaction. So think about if we're spending 1015 2025, even 30 hours a week in meetings, if we have a better experience in those meetings, our overall job satisfaction, of course, is going to get better. A lot of us now of course, are working from home, the pandemic is coming to an end. And even though things are looking brighter on that particular stage, a lot of us are not coming back to work, no matter what industry, there's going to be a certain percent of us who are still working from home or remotely, meaning that the virtual meeting is here to stay. Now, meetings have always had a bad rap, we keep wondering about what's my role? Why am I here? What's the purpose, we're spending way too much time on getting information versus discussing the most important thing, we have people who are speaking up others who are not, the list goes on and on and on. Now you add on top of that a virtual environment, it just compounds those issues by a factor of five. So then how do we make meetings virtually more effective, more efficient, so that we spend more time actually discussing the things we need to discuss, and less time having to figure out what it is that we're trying to be doing, and making sure that we are all on the same page. But my next guest on the business of intuition actually has started to attack that problem. And he's come up with a really important and I think useful app. In fact, one that I'm going to even start using, his name is Richard White, and he is the founder and CEO of Fathom VT video, a free app that records transcribes and highlights your calls so that you can focus on the conversation, instead of taking notes. Fathom was part of one of the only 50 Zoom app launch partners, and is one of a small handful of companies zoom has invested in directly via their zoom apps fun. Prior to fathom Richard founded User Voice one of the leading platforms that technology companies from startups to Fortune 500 companies use for managing customer feedback and making strategic product decisions. User Voice was notable for being the company that originally invented the feedback tabs shown on the side of millions of websites from around the world today. Richard White on the business of intuition. So Richard, great to have you on the business of intuition. I'm just downloaded your app Fathom and we're now using it in this particular conversation. And I'm fascinated by understanding how it works more I and I know in the show notes will give people information about how to connect to it download it and and how to use it in terms of increasing people's efficiency. But when it comes to teams, let's start off with that we've been through one hell of a few years here with with with COVID. And a lot of people have gotten very used to working from home organizations are now really opening up their hiring practice to say, hey, guess what, you don't have to live in our backyard. In fact, you don't even have to come into work or if you do, it's very infrequent. So we're going to probably have you interact with us much more over zoom or WebEx or so forth. And it's I think, even after the, you know, we get this pandemic, past us. We're not going back, you know, we're not going back to full, everybody at work, we're gonna have a certain percentage of people working from home. Tell me about your ideas about how to tweak and make teams more efficient, whether it's with your particular software, add on to zoom or others, but in this virtual world of zoom and WebEx and video conferencing, what are some of the tips and trades and hacks that we can use to be able to make ourselves more efficient? Sure, to it
touching my previous companies are voice that I started in 2008. We were originally for the first thing 18 months, a completely remote company. And then we actually had two offices early on. So we always kind of had a remote culture even once we had an office called Sure, and fathom what you just downloaded. Thank you for doing that. So try it out. We're a fully remote company from day one, we've been running them for about 1820 months. And so I think there's actually, you know, it's kind of interesting. The everyone's been kind of forced to do remote remote work now. And I think for a lot of companies, the challenge has been, yeah, it's a different kind of animal. And they've been trying to translate what just worked in office to to remote. And I think, having done both, what you kind of don't notice is, when you have an office, there's a lot of like, ambient knowledge transfer, you overhear someone on call, or they just come out of a room? And like, How'd that call go? Oh, well, like, you know, there's like, just a lot of kind of, like, ambient kind of chatter and sharing about like, what are we hearing, you know, you think about the traditional sales for right, like, you can hear the people on the sales calls, you hear them get excited to hear that not like there's just a lot of information, there's just kind of like at the watercooler at the lunch table, people talking, you know, across the office, and you don't get that whatever was working from home. And so I think what I've seen the best remote companies do, they are very intentional about how to create kind of like, ambient streams of information about what's happening with with the business, right. And I think more specifically, what are we hearing from customers is always one of the top things, right? Whether it's coming from your sales team, or your your account management team or, you know, product team, you name it. And so, you know, we tried to do a lot of things where I was asked, you know, does this need to be a meeting? Or is there a way that we can asynchronously share this content. And, you know, that applies to whether we're doing like planning, or you're sharing out our updated roadmaps or whatnot, like, we often try to err on the side of which share content at first. And if we have a meeting, it's mainly just to see each other or to discuss something. And then the other side using fathom, or you know, you've probably proudly chosen to use but using fathom, you're recording calls with customers, and we're stood up so that you can take the most important moments and immediately have them shipped into Slack channels. So we have a Slack channel where I can kind of see, I'm no longer on all of our customer calls anymore, right? We've got a team that's doing that their talk, they'll be talking to folks like you getting your feedback, how's the product working? What would you like to see differently. And rather than me just getting a bunch of notes about that later on, or be in a meeting, I see the stream of clips coming in, you know, usually 10 to 32nd, clips of customer saying like, this is awesome, or this could be better than this way. And not only I see that, but our entire engineering team sees it. And I think that's what's important is if the entire organization has the same context, we're all seeing the same inputs. And therefore we're all kind of have a much more like shared understanding of where we are as a product as a business that makes you know, motivation, and planning and everything else so much easier, because we don't have to spend a bunch of time getting on the same page.
That's a great, I get it now, the ambient learning that happens through this product that you just described, that we can sort of see the written transcripts of our conversations, say, with our clients, say, with a customer and so forth. Is there the and I'm curious what you're thinking about this, the challenge that we are already overwhelmed with so many things trying to scream attention and get attention. And that one more thing popping up on my screen I'm supposed to read? I might not because it's just I've got something else to do. I'm not you know, now, I have to now take my mind off of this and read that focus on one thing as hard enough as it is, now you're introducing another distraction. What do you how do you respond to that? Yeah, I mean, I
think I generally think that asynchronous things are way less taxing synchronous thing. So I think I'd rather think it's way less taxing for me to get an extra email than to get an extra 10 minute meeting on my calendar. And so the, the so I think the trade off there is that, like, yeah, we do have more things more inboxes necessarily, that you may want to look at, or that we ask folks to look at. But we also trade that off, like give you a lot less meeting time, right? We only have like 270 meetings a week across the entire team. Until we and we constantly ask this question, you know, does this do we still need this meeting? Or can this meeting now be replaced by, you know, some ambient shoe information? The other thing that's nice about that is like meeting a lot of usually meetings are used as content delivery, right? And so when my board meeting should not be for content delivery, they should be for discussion, right? We've worked really hard to get the content ahead of time. And if you're familiar with like Amazon tries to get around this by they have like, six minutes, they have a six page memo used to write for every meeting, big executive meeting. This is a six page memo, they'll have an hour long meeting and they force everyone's been the tariffs 15 minutes just reading the memo. So they all have context, right? So there's all these strategies like how do you not use meetings for context sharing or for information sharing? And how do you just use them only ad hoc when you need to have discussion, and that's kind of what we do. So we're kind of trading I think one thing or another, and the other nice part about that is, then people can consume them, whatever makes sense for them. Because the meeting is very heavy, a heavy hand. It's like, oh, we're having a, you know, 10 person meeting. We're gonna force all 10 people to be in this moment consuming the same content. That may not be the best moment for all of them right, they may actually may have something else on their mind. So we kind of generally say like, right, you can remember meeting three days, I'm going to tell you some differentIy for now, and someone will look at today's and we'll get tomorrow somebody the next day. And frankly, sometimes not everyone will get everything. And that's also okay. Right? Like, you don't have to be up on everything so long. It's like 36% that people know. Like, we didn't, we will, as a group have, like, total understanding, right? Not everyone has to know everything. So
that's a great, that's a great point. We've actually kind of delved into this meeting, management issue a lot over the last several years and, you know, even tried to create an app, which we really never got out of, you know, first stage, but it was trying to develop an understanding of how much does this meeting cost to have everybody there, so we can plug into an app, everybody's salary, you know, you would do that confidentially, you add on a certain percentage for other things that are like benefits and bonuses, and so forth. And then you get it down to the aggregate per hour per person, and you got 10 people sitting in a meeting, and you times that by, you know, one hour times 10. And all of a sudden, you get a huge, huge number, right? That's a $10,000 meeting. And then we ask people to rate the quality of the meeting on a scale of one to 100. And we find that maybe around 40% 50%, at the most do people feel that the meeting was was valuable, the other 40 or 50, or 60%, was invaluable. And then you take that number, and you times that the the dollar amount per hour, and you go, wow, we just lost so many 1000s of dollars, by having an unproductive meeting, and we spent so much time, you know, trying to understand what the cost of pencil sharpeners are or companies. But we don't understand what the cost of unproductive meetings. And so I think what you've what you've got here, Richard is really something very valuable, because it probably tell me if I'm wrong, but it cut down on the number of meetings that
we have. Yep. Yeah. So it's it's really twofold. I mean, one is, I think, for a lot of like customer calls, you can't put 10 People in the meeting from your side, right, and everyone wants to hear, I want to hear what customers say, you know, when they objected on to our price, or when they mentioned that competitor, I want to hear it firsthand. And then for internal meetings. You're right, like I call it kind of like meeting inflation, where you know, we had this meeting originally was five of us, but that one time we need to Tim from accounting. And so now Tim has to come every single time this meeting. Oh, and now we also need salad for marketing. Okay, now Sally's canceling his meeting every single time. Right? Yeah. And so the other thing we do is allow you to have, you know, smaller meetings. And, you know, oh my gosh, we should really told Tim about that last five minute discussion. Great. You can grab that clip out of that and say, Hey, Tim, like, we just talked about this, you should definitely check out this discussion. Right. And so right, instead of Tim does have to come to every one of these meetings. Stephen Wolfram, who's the co founder CEO is coming in Wolfram Alpha, which is like this kind of like Mathematica, whatever they are remote company to. And they've been remote, I think for like 25 years. And he has a lot of interesting takes on remote culture. And one of those was all their meetings or video off. And interesting why? And he said, Because we'll tease it three reasons. One, when the video is on, it's much more mentally taxing, because everyone's worrying about how they work. And well, yeah, my smiling or it's like the my you know, it doesn't look like I'm paying attention. And he's like, honestly, he's like meeting, he's kind of says, like this kind of meeting inflation is always, always happens. And so rather than try to like kick people out of the meeting, you just turn off video, you also give people permission to not fully pay attention. Right? Because we've all been in those meetings where I can tell for the next five minutes, I don't need to be part of this conversation. I would love to answer this last few emails, right. And he's like, I trust my team enough, you know, and they can't do that the video is on, right. But the videos off, he said, I trusted them enough to be able to listen to one year and like, do so much stuff and no need to jump in. And so it's really interesting, kind of counterintuitive thing. Because I do think when we first went to remote work, all these companies were not used to doing this. We're like, You got to turn your video on and like, you know, and like kind of did things the way that all the like long term companies weren't like, oh, no, like, that's actually counterproductive, which is fascinating.
Well, it's no wonder we could do a hybrid of that, though. I mean, I like the premise. Like just saying, God and guys, we're gonna have videos on and if you do not want to participate in this conversation, go ahead and check out your email. You know, if in fact, that is the guiding principles of that particular meeting? Yeah, but I do. We miss something. When we don't see the white computer dies. There's an emotional disconnect that we have to people when we can't see them.
Yeah, we do a lot of ad hoc audio only meetings like and those are nice, but you're right, like you need a bat. Like sometimes you need to need a diverse diversified portfolio of like asynchronous communication. You know, synchronous, all hands, we see each other's faces when we do try to even turn on their camera like it's building connection. And I'm just trying to accomplish something. I'll just jump on an audio thing real quick because I don't need you to like think about whether your kids are in Your background right now or like what your hair looks like today, I need to talk to you for 10 seconds, push him into emails back and forth.
I know, it's always my wife gives me a hard time because like, I will have a Zoom meeting with a client, and there's a certain sort of dress code that's expected. But then about a half of me is in flip flops and cut out, you know, but the top half is a suit and ties, like I walk around, like going look at the disconnect between the top of the bottom, and I'm sure everybody has had that experience. But you know, when you when you look at the research and the experience that you are having with companies, do you personally advocate for, hey, we need a certain percentage of our interactions to be face to face live in an office seeing each other three dimensional so forth? Are you saying you know what? Certain industry certain companies don't need to do that? What's your opinion?
I think it's more of the latter, the paradigm seen a lot for most companies is the we get together, you know, once twice, four times a year, it's like an off site to do a lot of to, you know, to kind of build some like human connection. And then we expect on this off sites to get the 70% attendance, because it's just hard to get everyone you know, everyone's you know, travel and whatever schedule is one Yep, same way, right. And they kind of make it more of like a open invitation to come check out this thing. It's gonna be fun, like, you know, we're gonna do it in in person collaboration. But I think, you know, it's in there is some trade offs, right, like it is, you know, sometimes, you know, whiteboarding something a little bit harder. But I think in general, all that stuff, the technology starting to catch up, where I feel like the virtual meetings are getting better than the in person meetings, right. Like, actually, with our
interest rate. There, Richard? Wow, yeah, there's a bomb.
I mean, I, I think, you know, I actually avoid in person meetings. Because with our app, I have no records, you know, records meeting, getting my notes. Like, I don't have to, like, be as focused and make sure I remember every single detail, because I always go back to it right later on. And that to me is changed how I interact meetings now just have more just open conversation. And I'm not obsessed with like, oh, my gosh, what did he just say, I need to write that down. And when I'm in person, I no longer have that thing backing me up. And I'm just not as effective. And I forget all these action items I supposed to follow up on because I've just lost that discipline a little bit. And so a lot of ways I prefer to have a virtual meeting for that reason.
Alright, so here's that question. I know, there's a lot of different apps out there. I've looked at mural, I've looked at a few others, I can remember their names. But when you're doing a meeting, sometimes you need to collaborate, you need to pull out some small breakout groups, we need to work on this process, or we're creating a strategic plan. We're working on this particular problem together. We can't do it in person, for whatever reason we choose not to we want to do it virtually. Do you have any best in class, but I love these sort of, well, collaborative software that might in fact, be something you can play on the background or a separate URL? What is your choice? Yeah,
so we're, we're part of this new kind of zoom Apps platform. There's apps built into zoom. I don't like plugins, right. That worked really well. Zoom. And you mentioned one Amuro. Another one, is there no, it's called scribble together? Are they just like very lightweight, kind of like, you know, whiteboarding tools for when we're all on a virtual meeting together?
Okay. Good. That's a good enough. Hey, you mentioned something I'm gonna change gears here for a little bit. You mentioned something in the information that you'd send me this phrase called T shaped, entrepreneurial, or entrepreneur? What is a T shaped entrepreneur? I'm curious about that. I've got the feeling there's got to be a story behind that. Oh,
yeah, I don't know where this phrase comes from. But this basically idea that, like, you have a little bit of knowledge across all disciplines. So for example, and then you're within your super deep in like, one area. So my background is, is programming, right, and product design. And I've done a lot of product design on fathom. But in my past company, for there's a time, right around the marketing team, there's a time where I ran the sales team, there was a time where I, you know, almost any function in that company I did for a certain period of time. And I think, you know, that taught me a lot that I've now taken into this startup, where I know enough about all these disciplines to be dangerous to like, figure out, you know, help us figure out what the version one is that we need to do of marketing or sales or go to market. And also no little bit enough to like, hire someone to do a better than me, right? I think that was, in the beginning of my career. I was, you know, I was an I shaped person, right? Like, I own your product engineering. And it was really, you didn't know what you didn't know. And it was really hard to know, how do I evaluate good marketers? What is good marketing? What are the options and what you learned? It's like, almost all these disciplines. There's generally a few different lanes, you could take. There's only so many, you know, sales methodologies. There's only so many marketing methodologies to certain. And so just knowing the menu is very helpful. And so this is kind of, I think, just in general, they call my T shaped people. So teaching people are like this broad across a lot of different disciplines do one, and I think there's kind of a concept like T shaped people doing entrepreneurship,
ethics and I think of it as you know, this the individual contributor who is a subject matter expert at some point, because companies do this all the time they keep promoting them, you know, we're gonna give you now a supervisory role a manager role, a VP role. And as you keep going up the ladder in the traditional hierarchy of companies, those requirements at those levels start to change. No longer is my subject matter experts skills, the thing that's going to make me successful, it's going to be this, this top of the tee, if you will, that I have knowledge in a lot of things. But I also have now I'm developing and working with people who can do the thing that maybe I used to do maybe even better, and other things. So now become a conductor versus the first chair, if you will.
Yep. Yeah, there's a lot of value in being generalist in terms of being able to like relate to peers and understand, okay, I know enough about how this apartment is running that I can be a good peer to it. Right. And it's like climate as I climb the ladder.
So Richard, how did you get into this? So I mean, why did you start this? This app? What what was the what got you going like, ah, we got to do something here. What was the impetus?
Well, it was scratching my own itch. I was at my last company, we're doing a bunch of research and talking to a bunch of customers. And I think, you know, it's about two years ago, is like January 2020, I'm ready to like 300 Zoom calls with customers in the first six weeks of the year. And, and it was one of the things like I love doing that stuff. I love talking to customers. It's super engaging, right? super interesting. It's like, you know, doing this detective work and figure out how we can, you know, solve some problem for them. But what I hated doing was trying to like, like, type out notes while I'm getting all this really interesting information. Right? Yeah. And I always like to tell folks I'm, is an engineering term, I'm single threaded, meaning when I start typing, my mouth stops moving. And so it's very awkward for conversation, I'm not good at doing things at the same time. Right? Right. So one that was really stressful. And then I generally found that like, I don't know about you, but like, generally notes I type while I'm in a meeting are more like mnemonics to help me write the notes right after the meeting, then like, then, like, fully fleshed out concepts. And so I'd have like, a five minute window after every meeting, I was like, Oh, my gosh, okay, gotta get out of my head, like, you know, gotta get everything my head before I forget it. All right. And so that's stressful, because, you know, if I have another meeting, or if I get delayed from that, you know, I get the end of the day. And I'm like, I don't remember what it is. No, it's mean. But frankly, the most, you know, so I do all that I do what I thought was actually pretty diligent, good note taking. And then I go look at it two weeks later, I'm like, I don't remember the important like, details that conversation. And more importantly, when I try to share with my team, hey, here's what I've learned from all these 300 calls. It just somebody was lost in translation, I'd have an amazing insight on a call. And it turns into a bullet point that I share with the team. And they'll kind of shrug. And so we did this experiment where I just instead of showing the bullpen to Mike, alright, so we just did a bunch of research this week. Here's a highlight reel of like 3/32 clips of what customers said about this thing we're building. And it just blew people's minds, right. And it was just like, it got real excited about we're doing and got them really excited about like going solving that problem. And so as a while there's really something here, like Note taking is terrible for the note taker, and also terrible for the consumer, it's just a really bad game of telephone, there has to be something better. And so that's what led us down this path to Well, let's start recording these. So let's, let's not just record them once allow us to like, let's record them really quickly. So I have the so I have my notes. As soon as Colin's what's allow me to, in the moment, click a button when I hear something important, because I know, not the entire call is interesting. But I know, I want to come back to this point in the call when we click a button. So I can jump back to this after the call ends, we actually find that people only find like 15 to 20% of calls, quote, noteworthy, right. And the rest of it is kind of on rails. And so what no one wants to do is go back and re listen to a 30 minute call just to find the 35 minutes that are important. So you know in the moment when those moments are and so we just give you a little apparatus be like I flagged this and we'll come back to after the call I want to share with my team, I want to get in my CRM, I want to send it to the you know someone else, right. And so that's what I hope you do.
Yeah, I'm looking forward to downloading some videos to learn more about this app, because I think this was going to be very helpful for me, because of the amount of zoom calls I do the podcast, as I mentioned to you before we started this conversation, I keep getting people say, Hey, we got to actually capture this stuff, and maybe use it for marketing and so forth. When you started this though, Richard. I mean, it sounded like you had a lot of obvious ideas about how to make this work. But I'm assuming that there's a somewhat of a leap of faith, I mean, that you got capital. I mean, maybe you were funded by your company, but you know, what got you to sort of jump into this full force, you know, and go, Let's risk this, let's make this happen. What was the process to get you to going from this has never been done to let's do it? Yeah, I mean, I think
with this sort of, I had very high conviction early on, just because, you know, scratching my own itch and then seeing, you know, and then we did a little research, but just the fact that we could build out kind of our prototype, and I could see like how it changed. Should like my work experience. I was like, Okay, I'm reasonably convinced that there's a lot of people that have the same challenge. I do, right? Because when I do socialize, it's a little bit I hear what you're saying people nod their heads, like, Yeah, I hate, you know, taking and all this sort of stuff. And so, yeah, I mean, I think every startup has kind of a lot of ups and downs, right. And we had the same thing. I mean, every month, there's an up and there's a down. But I think that I had really strong conviction from early phase that like, this is like, we're on to something here. Like, this is already changed my work life. Like, even in the beginning is when like, it wasn't working for some users, because it was too buggy or whatnot. I just had really high conviction that if we, there's a version we can build pretty quickly here that people really going to love. And I think that's changed over my career, I think, in the past, like, you know, first startup I did, I was thinking a little more timid about this, and just being like, gosh, I don't like you know, more more like, coming from a place of fear of like, maybe I'm wrong, and maybe maybe my like, instinct is wrong. Like, there's not enough people like me, or, you know, or this is actually not that good of a solution. But now, I think one of the things has changed, I've had a lot of conviction in like my own conviction, right? If it's gonna matter, but Right, like, I've like, no, no, like, generally, in the past, when I had high conviction about things, they were generally right. And when they weren't, right, like I learned from it. So I think it's all just trusting my own my own gut on a lot of this stuff has changed a lot over the last 15 years of doing startups.
Plug for this show your intuition? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. So let me ask you another question here, that might be a bit unfair. But you know, you've got this nice tool this in, which is, I'm really looking forward to playing around with it, you've had a pretty successful career, it sounds like it sounds like this tool is working, and you're getting good feedback and must be, if it's part of the series of tools that can be easily connected to zoom. So you've already got a great partner there. So if you're great at creating a great tool, but what's the throughput? What's the ultimate purpose behind all this? What are you trying to really do? Like, what's the product of the product? I mean, what's the outcome that you're trying to help people improve their lives in some way? Can you define that in some, two or three sentences that says, why I'm doing this thing about Simon Sinek? In his golden circle? And the why, right? What's the why behind this? We know what the tool is, it might work very well, we've seen it does. What's the why?
I mean, there's there's two, right? Like at individual level, the why is, we're all on a bunch of zoom calls, right? There's got to be a better way for us to do them and not be stressed out about them, right, and be able to kind of relax and have a conversation and not worry about missing something. And I think there's a very emotional, why there, right? Like, why we have too many zoom calls, we're too stressed out. And then I think from an organizational level, you know, my last company, we ran the entire business based on all these notes in our CRM, right? Like, everything we knew about a customer was based upon was only as good as the notes or salespeople or customer success or whatever put into our CRM. And to me, that is just kind of insanity. Right? When I think about how bad you know, I like I ran our sales team, I know how bad most their notes were right. And so I think there's a future here where we will have a really rich, like, understanding of who our customers are, like, what's working for them what's not. And we'll do that off of kind of mining the catalogue of all the conversations we've recorded with them, as opposed to mining the, you know, six bullet points, we get out of an hour long conversation from whatever sales rep. And so that's the, you know, that's the future, whereas like, not only not only is it less stressful for individuals, but for people trying people not on the front lines to understand what's happening. Right. Yeah, your executive position managing, you're constantly trying to make sure I understand what's happening on those front lines. Right. Yeah. And it's hard to do. And, you know, just looking at the notes in the CRM, you know, when I was looking at the notes in serum for our sales team, I was always asking this question, which was, yeah, but what do they really say? And so I think, I think that's, you know, if we can surface to you, here's the, you know, across eight hours of content, if you watch this 10 minutes of content, you will really understand the evolution of this customer, their pains, their trials and tribulations. And I think that is where we're going.
That's great. I mean, I love it. You know, it sounds like it does summarize that it's about stress reduction. In some ways. It's about efficiency. But it's also about the age old problem of people not knowing what they don't know. I mean, people not understanding that there's information out there within our teams within our companies, but we don't know where to find it. You know, there's, there's an age old, the thing I keep hearing with some companies is, this company doesn't even know what they know, we don't even know and I come in as an external consultant or coach, whatever. And I'm telling people things about what's going on in their own company and I don't work there, right. How do we then create that, that latitudinal or horizontal connection of what's happening? Yep.
That's great. Especially at scale, right? That that kind of like, again, that's if we talk about real We're about ambient awareness and just like how to it's really hard problem to get a lot of humans on the same page about something right? And that's going to get challenges as an org is like, how do we all sing from same song sheet? How do we all have a shared kind of reality here that we can then make decisions from?
That's awesome. That's awesome. I love it. So Richard, nice chat really, really glad that we connected. How can people connect to you connect to your work connect to this app? Give it give yourself a little plug on that?
Sure. Yeah, if you wanna check out fathom, completely free app again, recorded transcribed, highlight your calls, share clips from them, go to fathom dot video slash pod, fattened ws slash pod, we have a waitlist. So you know, if you just go through the website, you may live in the waitlist, but if you go through that link, you skipped right, you skip past the waitlist. And if you want to connect with me any feedback on the product or just any follow up questions, I'm on LinkedIn, feel free. Just send me a message there.
Great. Richard, thanks so much for your time. It's been a pleasure,
Dean. Thanks for having me. It's been fun. You bet.
Thank you for listening to the business of intuition. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe rate and review on Apple podcasts, Google, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to learn more about Dean or mission facilitators leadership, go to MFI. leadership.com That's MF i leadership.com.