Part 2 Finding + Building Remarkable Teams - For the Organization

1:58PM Mar 20, 2023

Speakers:

Julie Confer

Becky Endicott

Jonathan McCoy

Tim Foot

Brooke Hodnefield

Keywords:

organization

people

culture

leader

team

question

hire

thinking

role

gaps

build

friends

nonprofit

becky

tim

speak

virtuous

conversation

values

search

Support for this show is brought to you by our friends at Bloomerang. Bloomerang offers donor management and online fundraising software that helps small to medium nonprofits like First Tee of greater Akron, and nonprofit empowering kids and teens through the game of golf.

After just one year with Bloomerang, they doubled their unique donors, improved donor stewardship and raise more funds to listen to the full interview of First Tee of greater Akron visit bloomerang.com/we are for good, or click the link in our show notes. Hey, I'm John.

And I'm Becky.

And this is the We Are For Good podcast,

nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropist, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

So let's get started. Thank you Happy Friday,

back for round two, I hope you've come back to us because we're gonna put a cherry on the top of this conversation.

Yep. So we've taken a pause over the last couple of Fridays to talk all about the launch of good jobs, if you've not checked it out. It's at jobs.we are for good.com. And we have partnered with some really value aligned friends that are in this space that think about this, that Shepherd people through these journeys on a daily basis, because it's not something that we just felt like we had all the answers to launch some job board. But we wanted to go with this with true partners in the work. And so we have got two of the greatest minds to the kindest people from slingshot group representing on the call today. And if you missed last week's episode, go ahead and zoom back like stop. You don't need to listen to this one yet. Like go back and listen to the first episode where we talk specifically to the person who's looking right now or they have this inkling of what do they want the next move to look like? Some incredible questions to consider. But this episode, we're diving into the organizational perspective. I know from talking to people in our community, a lot of us are looking around feeling like how are we going to do? How are we going to accomplish the work that's ahead of us. The goals seem to keep getting bigger. The challenges are kind of mounting, and you need to find a team that you can do this with in lockstep. So friends today, this is balm for that conversation, we were talking specifically to the organization that wants to build remarkable culture and it is my sincere honor to welcome Tim foot and Brook Haddonfield back to the podcast to chat with us today. So welcome back, guys. Good to see you.

We're absolutely thrilled to be here again, John,

great to be back in the house. Besties get in here and teach us today.

So it's so good to have this conversation, because we wanted to start with talking about just this idea of building a magnetic culture. And this is something that, you know, we've talked a lot about on the podcast, specifically with our mutual friends, the historic agency group, Tim Vaughn, Mark Miller, who've done a lot of work on the screen. Love those guys. Oh, my gosh, they're so smart at this wrote the book on it, too. Yeah. But let's talk about creating a magnetic culture. You know, I mean, what's some tone setting? Tim, as we kind of lead into this conversation? What's that look like today,

there's so many things that you can do to set that kind of culture as an organization, the kind of culture that leaders want to work for people want to be on that team. And the first way to do that is ask you people, what is great about working here, or maybe what's challenging about working here, and ask people that you wouldn't normally talk to, like, if you've got a decent sized staff, and you leave the organization, or you're on the lead team or the exec team, you might talk to somebody who's a couple of layers down to the organization, make sure you have those conversations about what's great about working it also have those exit interviews when people are transitioning away from the organization, because they will be honest with you. And we know that that there's always going to be other organizations that that are going to offer more money and a sunnier zip code. But it's why do people want to be a part of us find that out? And then build upon that? When you say, Brooke?

Yeah, absolutely. I heard actually, last week, someone speak to a stay put interview, instead of an exit interview. So the idea of like, why wait till they're leaving to find out what your culture is about, and the things that are great and the things that need to change. And I think like anything else, if you don't prioritize it, you don't plan for it, you don't make space for it, it's not going to happen. So put it in your strategic plan your quarterly goals, your big, hairy audacious goals, your rocks, whatever you call it, just make space for it and put it out there. So there's some accountability in it. And then I think to just to recognize, like your culture was not built overnight, and so start small. It's overwhelming to think like, gosh, we have a long ways to go. Our culture is a mess right now. But start with start somewhere. Start with what you have and build into it. And then just be consistent. The worst thing You can do I thought about, even for myself, we had a Slack channel and I was like, Oh, I'm going to do like a question of the week, this will just have some good engagement with our nonprofit team. I did it for like two weeks. And and I forgot about it. Well, that's not very helpful, because that's not going to be consistent. But now we have opening up our team meeting, someone that kind of brings a good word, we have a new voice, every time we've stuck with it, people look forward to it. And it's a habit that's just built into the culture of our team. Now, because we've done it consistently.

I love this conversation around evolving culture. Because I think that we've really looked at culture in a one dimension, at least I feel like I have worked in one dimensional cultures and nonprofit and they were very, they were very much the same. And, and when we talk to our community, we know the way of work and the way of the world is shifting and our community are talking about their new non negotiables. They're talking about remote work, they're talking about better work life balance, encouragement to take PTO, or investment in their professional development. They want flexible hybrid schedules with great time off paid time off and benefits. And they also want to be heard, they want to have diverse leadership. So when you hear all of that, you know, these are these are new concepts for many of our cultures, what advice would you give to those who are listening about how they can start making strides toward building this type of culture that really values some of these non negotiables, or whatever it is that your team is telling you that they want to integrate it into their work? Becky, you

use the term evolving culture, I think a great culture actually has evolving leaders, and a sign of great culture is internal promotion. And so how do you hire the right people? That that won't abuse these new freedoms that everybody's asking for? And then allow them to grow in the organization? Now, we've probably got organizational leaders listening that are going oh, my gosh, what else do we need to give our team? You know, they've

got a yes. Let's name that for you. Nope.

But you know what, Becky, we're in an evolving culture too. And things are changing. And if we want great leaders on our team, we can't just stick our heads in the sand, and go, I'm not gonna do that. Because we want to empower great leaders to be on our team. Yeah, I mean, I'm picking one thing and as a as an example, here, lots of organizations are moving to unlimited vacation. Now, some leaders would go, how can I do that people put will be on vacation the whole time. Don't hire those people. You hire the people that aren't going to abuse it, the right people on your team that are all about the mission and vision and mission and vision alignment. And they will, they will not abuse the freedom remote work is a huge thing right now, if you can get a 10x leader on your team, but they're not in the office all the time, or they're flying once a month, and you get 10x output? Is it not worth considering? So I think it's it's thinking out the box, okay? Isn't a lot of different things that we would never have considered five years ago. But what if considering these things, gets us the best team, the most remarkable team than we could have ever imagined.

I love that you brought that up, because that literally just happened to me. Last week, I talked to somebody in the community who had an incredible candidate at a higher education institution. They were perfect. They wanted remote work, and the organization walked away because they said, We are a culture that has people in the office. And my response as a board member was it's time to evolve, because we just missed out on somebody who would have taken our organization to the next level because our mindsets are stuck in the past. So thank you for that great example. Brooke, do you have anything to add?

No. And I would just say to to Tim's point, too, I think we have to model it. If we as leaders can't model in our organization, what we hope our culture is evolving to, then then we're not going to make the advances that we hope and we're not going to make the great strides that we that we hope to see happen. So I think being able to declare the things that are important and then stick to it and demonstrate that it's not just important for you. But it's also important for me to be able to embody that.

Yeah. And can I just add to Becky, you know, there are some companies that have legit real reasons for not being able to do remote, but I want to challenge those that don't. So I'm challenging those that don't, but also test the market. Like we'll say, Brooke Won't we have we're working with an organization stewarding a search process. We can look at this for a couple of months and then reevaluate, be it's okay to put a stake in the ground. It's okay to move the stake if it's not working out for your ego and so be be willing to open up your mind to what's possible. If you're just not seeing the rest out that you hoped for.

Yeah. And some roles really translate well to a remote environment. And that is just an easy way to just to maybe even try it for organization with some of those roles that it just makes sense to do. So others, it is more challenging for those to be considered remote, but just at least try. You can't you can't know until you do that, right?

I mean, okay, I'm going to keep camping out on the evolving because I'm just, I'm loving where this is leading us. And I think of just like, even as a leader, you know, when I was hiring for my team, it's like, someone will leave and you're like, it's time to dust off the old job description. And it's like, oh, my gosh, they haven't been done any doing any of these things is what I was thinking. But can you walk us through as a leader to say, where do you start to identify? Where are the gaps for what you really are looking for? You know, like, what does that first conversation before even posting out there? What do you how do you identify those gaps? And what do you hire for?

Well remind me what that question was, because I don't want to miss saying what I thought while you were talking about this. And that is that that is yes, you're not gonna want me back. That is personalities, drive, staff searches. So personalities, drive leader searches, you've heard the old saying, you just want the right people on the bus, one of our co founders used to say, wouldn't it be great if we didn't have to write a job description until the leader had been in the role for six months, until you actually saw what that person could do and what they could bring. That same founder will say, when somebody joins our organization, our culture just got better today, because of what you bought to it that we didn't have before. And so let's back the truck my taming

with chills down on my arms, I mean, that series, it was so evolved, you know, of way of thinking about it. So wow, cool, cool.

And so if you're back to trap mountain to the gaps, sometimes we don't know the gaps until we start looking at the potential people that are that are aligned with our mission and vision during the search process. But you absolutely can look at and we'll talk about this when we're walking into an organization, doing that parachute drop into the discovery visit where we're getting to know them will be will be asking what what do you need to reevaluate? What do you need to reinvent in this role now that you find yourself way back, when we started 15 years ago, we would walk into situations where people just lost a great leader, and they were devastated. And we'll say, oh, no, this is catalytic to your growth as an organization. Really, why? Because now you get to reimagine, now you get to reassess where the gaps are in the organization, and how you can step into this in a different way.

Yeah, and I just add to, you know, we've we often are working with an organization that think they know what they need, but they really don't know because they are at a different point in a different time, maybe someone has stepped out or is transitioning out. And it does give you a moment to like, this could be a time to recalibrate, and to reset. And so even depersonalized, a little bit and stop and don't think about the names and people associated with the roles. But what's the actual work that we need to accomplish here? And what do we need to accomplish that work? And so looking at the team that currently exists, like, can you lead up and build up into someone that you could maneuver to have them be at their highest and best and then actually makes the way for a different role, maybe a new role that needs to be hired to instead, so a different kind of talent you need to bring in. But it's hard to do that when you're you're focused on the people the faces the day to day, but just look at function to start with, and it can help you kind of define what is a good next step.

At the risk of oversimplifying? How long has it been since you've done the four helpful lists and talks about what's right, wrong, confused and missing? A real simple exercise you can do today is have two columns, the team We are the team we want to be and that really will review reveal gaps for you. And it'll actually give you a baseline you can come back to in six months, 12 months and say, Oh yeah, we're closer to the team. We want to be now because we've got this person on the team. And because we realize this, these gaps, and we've worked at filling

a friend are you considering a career move or looking for your next amazing hire? We've teamed up with our friends at slingshot group to launch we're for good jobs. Good jobs is all about connecting people passion and talent to fuel the impact of rising. So what are you waiting for? Find a job post a job or get support to help you on the search@jobs.we are for good.com.

Taking a quick pause from today's episode to thank our sponsor, who also happens to be one of our favorite companies Virtuous. You know, we believe everyone matters and we've witnessed the greatest philanthropic movements happen when you both see and activate donors at every level. And Virtuous is the platform to help you do just that. It's so much more than a nonprofit CRM. Virtuous helps charities reimagine generosity through responsive fundraising, volunteer management and all Mind giving in. We love it because this approach builds trust and loyalty through personalized engagement. Sounds like Virtuous might be a fit for your organization, learn more today@virtuous.org or follow the link in our show notes.

I want to compliment you because you have said something in both of these episodes that is very striking to me. And I feel like it's missing a nonprofit. And you talk about, don't just focus your searches externally. How are we looking internally at developing our people? We just had a great conversation with Michelle Flores, Vern and with Adrian longenecker, about how do you move from the CTO role chief development officer to the CEO role? And it's like, how are we intentionally developing our people creating pathways of longevity and retention because their institutional knowledge, their relationships, we want to we want to maintain and protect that. And I want to get a little tactical as we talk about culture here. And I want to talk about the interview. And I want your insight on how listeners can really ensure that when they're going through a hiring practice as an organization, that their processes are equitable, you know, because Shana Palmer is a dear friend of ours and just an incredible thought leader. And she had this fantastic quote for us that says, you know, the term culture fit is just a container for the prejudices that we hold around who we think belongs. And so I would love your advice and counsel around how do people start to build remarkable teams that are baked in that equity right at the beginning?

That's a That's a great question. And Becky, just to go back to what you were saying about internal candidates, that that is absolutely the first question we ask when an organization comes to us is, who do you have internally? Have you considered or looked at? And you would be surprised or maybe not to find that sometimes that just gets overlooked? You just kind of think, Okay, we have this hole, we need to fill this, what do we need? Who do we need, and oftentimes, it's there, it exists right there. And you might just have to do a little bit of development, or support or resourcing or equipping of an individual to get them to that point. But constantly thinking of like, Who can we be building into developing, strengthening our bench is is the best way to Tim's point of demonstrating healthy culture too. So had to go back to that one? Sorry. But I think to your question around, you know, hiring to and this this culture fit question, that's such a broad thing, cultures hard to even speak to a nail down. It's like this intangible felt, thing that you're experiencing, which is also hard to name too. But I think a lot of it does go back to your values. And are you clear about what you value? And can you speak to how those values are expressed across your organization's through decisions, behaviors and actions, because those are the things that people are going to care about. Those are the things that people feel, that's where you see an individual's own values have alignment or misalignment with organizational values. But if you can't speak to that, to the beginning, culture doesn't matter. And the Fit doesn't even come into question, because your values oftentimes are driving how your culture gets played out.

Yeah, Becky, you talked about how we focus on the work that the organization needs to do not just on what the candidate needs to do. And when it comes to equity, this is so important, EDI, it's so so important. And from a staffing company, and being in the CEO role, if I lose sleep about anything at night, it's we don't want to be a part of placing leaders in unhealthy organizations, or organizations that come to us and say, Hey, we need a diverse hire, or we need a such and such hire. And we go out and find them the leader, we put them into a situation that actually didn't really even know what that meant. And so it's so important that the organization understands what that means. And then when they're stepping into the hiring process to do that with an outward mindset and not an inward one. And so it's to ask those questions. Okay, if we approach this, this, this process with an outward mindset, what's that going to look like and listed? If we approach it with an inward? What's that gonna look like and be totally honest and vulnerable in that, and that will set the tone for the whole process. And then as a search team calling out when people making assumptions, or operating off of faulty scripts, or operating from an inward mindset, and then just overall, being aware of what's missing on your team, what natural biases already exist, because guess what, we all have them. And then us admitting them to each other as a leadership team or a search team, and then keeping each other accountable. It's so so important and then to realize this, if you Step out. And we absolutely all need to, and hire people that look different, that think different, that are different, then we have to realize it's going to take development, and it's going to change our culture. So are you ready for that culture change, because it is coming, if you step out in the way that you need to step out, and to realize, and I think Phil said this on the the the LinkedIn live, realizing that leaders ultimately are built, not bought. And so you have to realize we're going to be developing this leader, we're going to be building into this leader. And you know, what else we're going to do? We're going to be learning from this leader, and the uniqueness they bring to the role. Yeah,

what an incredible conversation to lead into. And I think, any leader out there, I hope that you bookmark this and come back, because are you having those kinds of conversations before you're starting a search, like, I can speak from my experience that we didn't, you know, in the places that I was at, not from, probably lack of care, but just more just moving too fast and not really doing that work? And so I appreciate kind of the framework that you're giving to this.

And I also, like, want to go back and challenge everyone, because I think something you said that I have never thought about that we need to be open to is when you have someone whether it's slingshot, or somebody else that's helping you with the search? Do you have a growth mindset enough for when they come to you and challenge that things are not equitable, that we don't come back defensively? Or try to really dig our heels into our scarcity of what we think I really think having an open mind and an open heart in this process is not only going to grow the organization, it's going to grow you as a human being too. And I really value that you said that, Tim, thank you.

I just had one other thought to just as this question to consider, like, practically speaking, like just thinking through the front door of your organization. Like if if you are entering through the front door of your organization, what do your job postings look like? What are your hiring practices? What is your onboarding? Is it what is your training? Do you even have that in place? Is it consistent? Do you have intentionality around there, those are things to that I think will help compel and draw in the candidates that really understand what you're trying to do in a way that's equitable, and fair and honoring of those individuals that you're hoping to hire to.

And it's a great first impression, too, if you've probably met in my gosh,

I mean, we mentioned this in the last episode, but that's one of the kind of gateways to entering into this new job space for we're for good that it's like that you are affirming that that is part of how you're showing up in the hiring practice, and the onboarding, and just the supporting of equity, inclusion, diversity all throughout your organization. So just to really appreciate the context in that question. Okay, last episode, we were talking about the interview from the perspective of the interviewer, ie, an interviewer getting confused, but yeah, we got to, we got to thank you. So I mean, it was one of my favorite part of last episode was just the right questions to ask. But let's flip the script from the organization's perspective. I mean, just as someone doesn't just Google and write five minutes before they walk into an interview, what to ask, what are some really meaningful questions that get to the heart of what you're really looking for?

One of my favorites, I will say, is asked for the how not just the what we have seen time, time, time and time again, organizations get wooed by someone that can come and really do a great job, whittling off the list of all the things they've done, but then when the rubber hits the road, they're in their place, they're starting the work, there's nothing there because there actually wasn't existence of an demonstration of their ability to get to that point. So just asking how they got there. It also has them speak to how did they do something? Are they using a lot of if statements, I did this, I did this, I did this? Are they talking about the bridges, they built the collaboration, the team effort, the partnerships they've made, it really just speaks a lot to how they got there. And the journey, as we all know, half the time is really where the learnings happen and where the growth happens, not just what the outcome is. So I think speaking to that, as you guys know, I love the values piece. And I think what you're why speaking to values, because there is really something to be said about an individual that comes into the conversation, they have their own set of values they have the things they care about. And if it's pretty clear that there's misalignment between your what your organization cares about and what the individual cares about, that's going to be an uphill battle, that's going to be a gap that's going to be pulling efforts and energy up for an individual that there maybe just are not going to ever get there. If there's a small gap maybe you can work work around that and even speak to that in the interview process. But I think speaking to having them speak to their their internal personal values and alignment with organizational values will just give you a lot of insight to

love the anything dad Tim. Yeah, a

couple of obvious ones. Firstly is Asking what their strengths are because you want to hear them articulate that and know their unfair advantage. That's a big deal. Okay, what's the unique thing that puts you ahead? What's your unfair advantage? And then the flip side, obviously, what do you see your biggest weaknesses are because that's all about self awareness that absolutely refuse it reveals self self awareness. And you want to be concerned that they can't articulate this, but a couple of my favorites, what are your greatest trophies? Hearing that from them? And where they go with that? Do they go immediately professional? Do they go personal? And what are those things that they have in their trophy cabinet? And then what how? What would your strategy be? How do you How would you approach this, and then see how far into the future they go, that gives you a good indication to of how they're thinking about this role, and whether they have a plan?

You know, one of my favorite interview questions, John knows this, because it was always my final question, whenever I interviewed anybody for like, the last eight years is a lot like your trophy question. And I would just ask, what are you passionate about? And the way the I would watch people's shield come completely down when they share something very personal that happened in their life and why they're so passionate about it? And in that question, I felt like I could see EQ, I could see work ethic, I could see how they leaned into that passion. And it really does put some of that heart wiring evidence right there in front of you. And if somebody gives me exactly what I want to hear, it's like that is also very obvious. So I love this, these tips so much. Yeah, bringing

up some good ones. Now. You got a hiring manager on time. Okay. You're on your deathbed tonight. What are you thinking about? Doing? How are you thinking about? I'm

like, What did you answer wasn't talking to me?

Oh, supporting the process? And then the other scary. One is? Is there anything at all that we wish we would have known about you? Is there anything at all that we would wish we'd have known about you?

That is a really generous one, because it allows someone to come in and really let themselves shine. And in a way that doesn't seem self aggrandizing. So that one is great, too. Excellent tips here, we're gonna move into our favorite segment, which is do this. Not that? And we want to know, what are some of these do this not that Tips from an organizational perspective? And I think Brooke, I'll start with you.

So I would say the market right now is unlike what we've ever seen before. And so do keep the candidate engaged, communicate, even if there is a holdup in the process, just shoot people straight. Let them know what the heck is going on. Even if you don't have anything specific to communicate, just let them know, Hey, we still are really excited about you and this potential that you might bring to our organization. But right now we've got X, Y, and Z, we've got this big deadline coming up. I mean, just talk to people keep them engaged in the process, because you will lose them. If not,

can I add a pro tip if you're working for a large healthcare organization, like we did do that communication before you toggle things in your system shooting out all these automatic messages, you know, it's like it breaks my heart or stories about certain steps because of an automated message. So that's my faux pas. But that's Yeah, that's

really good. And you don't have to it doesn't have to be lengthy like keep it brief, take two seconds to do that. Make it personal, make it relational people will feel cared for and stay engaged in the process. If it's like a robot sending out something or they're incorrect information, that's even worse, but do not expect people to come to you. They people have a lot of choices. And they're the the workforce looks like a different place than it did two or three years ago. So don't expect people to come to you search for the people you want. Come up with a dream list, be proactive. You've got to be doing both the passive and the active right now as an organization to get the kind of people that you want to come into your organization. And then the last one, I'll say too, is get incredibly open handed and creative where you can in your total compensation package. So different people value different things. And what you what you don't recognize sometimes is that it's not always the monetary things. Oftentimes, it's not the monetary things. That's critical, of course, but just making sure you're considering how can we be creative? What are the things that this person values and cares about? And can we do something about that that's honoring of them and also the culture that we already have and the people already we already have on our team to

stuff you want to happen there.

Do assume the candidate is interviewing you, because they are and then do assume they have other offers on the table because in this current climate most likely they do, which means you need to do some work. Do we who know how to woo people to your organization, and get help if you need help wooing. And then don't think that you've not got any dysfunction in your organization. Every org has dysfunction. So communicate it upfront, know it and communicate it. Don't ignore gut feelings. Express us. Don't ignore gut feelings. express them as if you're in an interview process. I'm thinking this, you have a shot now to ask the question. Don't ignore gut feelings. And then don't hire a leader thinking they'll change. It's like a marriage, don't marry somebody hoping that they'll change. Don't hire a hire leader hoping they'll grow you want the kind of organization are growing, but don't hire them hoping they'll change because guess what, in the interview process, they're on their best behavior.

I mean, y'all, this has been just a masterclass and the entire hiring process, just really appreciate the way that y'all come at these conversations and the way you take care of people on the journey. And so as we wind down this episode, I want to give you space to share a one good thing for so for the person that's out there that's looking to grow their team this year replace maybe a long, trusted colleague that's gone on to a different path. What's one good thing for that person today?

So I'm gonna point back to a Gallup research that was done in 2021, that shows 42% of the reasons that people are quitting are tied to how they feel about their bosses and their organizational cultures. So your retention insurance, around hiring and keeping good people should cause you to consider your culture first. And so you can hire great people, but they're not going to stay if your culture isn't in check. So all roads lead back to culture, in my mind. Wow. So good.

I love it, that we've come full circle back to culture, because culture is everything in an organization. And my thing would be ask yourself and the people on your team, what is it about our culture that we don't talk about?

Yeah, I mean, I feel like I want to do that with our team today. You know, because even when you're tight, it probably that can happen. You know, it can happen in a team bigger, small. And so what a great call to kind of in this with so we want to create space for people to connect with y'all. Y'all are such experts, but also just such kind humans in this journey. So connect us to slingshot group where you show up online how people can find y'all.

So our website, slingshot group.org is the place to be that's where you'll be able to connect with all of us. Lots of great resources out there to information, white papers, videos, all sorts of things that can really support an organization that's just thinking about hiring and what that looks like. LinkedIn, the socials, the usual places and spaces, but definitely our websites the place to go.

Brooks said it and we are part of the community now. So I'm pretty sure you won't go far. You won't have to look far and We Are For Good at we have for good to find us, guys. We love this connection. And this partnership with We Are For Good. So thank you,

indeed is entirely reciprocated. And I just want to say you know, if you're looking for a job and want to plug again, jobs.we are for good.com. And I want you to know you have friends here. It's not just the we're for good team. It's not just the we're for good community, it's slingshot and it's a community of people who are rooting for you. So let's get you in alignment. This year in the right place. You've got friends who are rooting for you, Tim Brook, incredible humans. Thanks for coming back to summer camp and talking with us again. I'm ready. We need a branded t shirt now. And you out there who's looking we have got your back. If you are an organization or an individual let's build a healthier sector full of healthier people who are pouring into this work with intention and they are backed and vibrant cultures. Thank you friends. Thank you

love you guys. Thank you.

Hey, friends. Thanks so much for being here. Did you know we create a landing page for each podcast episode with helpful links, freebies and even shareable graphics. Be sure to check it out at the link in this episode's description. You probably hear it in our voices but we love connecting you with the most innovative people to help you achieve more for your mission than ever before. We'd love for you to join our good community. It's free. And you can think of it as the after party to each podcast episode. You can sign up today at we are for good.com backslash Hello. One more thing if you love what you heard today, would you mind leaving us a podcast rating and review? It means the world to us and your support helps more people find our community. Thanks friends. I'm our producer Julie confer and our theme song is Sunray by Remy Borsboom