Ep 19 - DAO Contributor Series - Patti Hauseman (FWB)
2:23AM Mar 5, +0000
Speakers:
Jess Sloss
Patti Hauseman
Keywords:
dao
people
contributors
team
space
structure
folks
patti
building
governance
community
organization
process
thinking
bit
agree
vote
exist
operations
contribute
Hello friends and welcome to club Seed Club podcast. I'm your host, Jess. Today we have something special, you have a new thing. Welcome to the first episode of the DAO contributor series, where we sit down with the early full time contributors in Web3 shine a light on some of the pain points, the day to day operations and what it's like to actually be building on the frontlines, the future of work on the Internet. Today, we are very excited to be joined by Patti Hauseman who runs operations that a little DAO you might know called FWB to speak to Patti about her journey entering into the web3 space and how she worked her way through FWB into a full time role. Go deep into the onboarding process at FWB and how those pathways have evolved, talk about her experience building healthcare options for the contributors, something that is going to be relevant for many DAO operators today. Patti is a passionate, thoughtful contributor to the DAO ecosystem. And we are so lucky to have her sharing her insights with us here today. So let's jump into it.
Amazing. So thank you for including me. And we are definitely overdue for a conversation. As you probably know, I don't get out of my own DAO very much. crazy busy. And I've had the good fortune of meeting a lot of really nice people through Zhang and usually sends folks my way when it comes around to operational questions. But I literally barely get out of my own DAO right now.
That's spoken like a true quality operations person in a DAO.
It's complicated. DAO operations is a lot more complicated than I think people understand except for the operations people.
Yes. Okay. Well, so much to get into. Let's start off off the top. What's your background? Who are you maybe give us a little bit of an intro?
Sure. Um, so I'm Patti Hauseman. I am the operations lead at the FWB DAO. In my previous life, I've been a longtime music industry person, including GM in a couple of indie labels working at major labels. And most recently, I ran the recorded music division of paradigm talent agency, we had our own in house label there. Before coming to FWB.
I love how much of a crossover there is between music and web3. And I think, again, that's something that people who have spent time in music and web3 can sort of understand maybe the drive to the complexities of that industry. I'm curious, like, what was that like discovery moment for web3 in DAOs for you.
So my onboarding to FWB. From my music live, I actually knew Trevor and I ended up onboarding to FWB wanting to learn more about NFTs back a little over a year ago. Um, but I'd never owned any crypto before Trevor airdrop me the tokens to join, I joined FWB. And I had this moment in the DAO of just discovering this entire world, that I knew absolutely nothing about it. There were so many people building in the space, so many people working on new things, so many smart thinkers, you know, we're so lucky at FWB, to have the quality members that we have. There was just so many amazing people in so many things to learn, I basically moved in. And that was sort of the moment and I started, I volunteered for the membership committee. And then from there, I ended up becoming in charge of the membership team. And then from there, I ended up moving to shifting to an operations role. So that's sort of my, that's, that's sort of my journey to web3. But, you know, honestly, the past 10 years for me, and music has felt really stale. I feel like I feel like the limited resources that music have has now versus you know, back when the recorded music industry sort of had a heyday really limits the innovation that the industry does, where web3 just feels like constant innovation. It's It's so exciting. And it's so exhilarating to sort of be part of it. But I think the the web3, two, music industry crossover is music is not or at least the industry is not particularly structured, right? There's not a lot of structure where if you go into like an agency, or one of the big web2 sort of behemoths, one of the FAANG companies, it's super corporate, it's super structured, I feel like music people really adapt to DAOs. Because we can deal with sort of that, you know, a little bit more of a free flowing structure compared to someone who needs a more structured environment.
You also find that like how ft up the spaces also has a direct correlation to like the willingness of people to take risks and do new things and I think music is music off the board at all levels has such a mismatch of incentives and complications to it that Yeah, I think there's this like mixture of structure lessness, and then also an appreciation for how certain structures can maybe be limited. Yeah. Is that check out?
Yeah, that's 100% Yeah, I think I think and that sort of leads back into the to the sort of lack of innovation, right, because parts of it, especially the rights part of it is so structured. It just doesn't feel like there's a lot of room for innovation there unless you're one of the rights holders.
Totally. I spent two years working for a management and booking agency in Canada here. So I had a very up close and personal understanding of minerals, complications in the music business. So short history.
Yeah, for sure. It's, um, you know, it's, I think there's a lot, um, I think the the industry as a whole is going to be able to really benefit from web3, and it's going to be so nice to cut out some of the middle men in this space. I mean, there's still going to be the gatekeepers, I think it's going to be challenging to sort of see a world where some type of label doesn't exist, because they have the team to do things like marketing, etc, etc. But I think web3 is really going to help shift the paradigm. I love hearing from artists, you know, I sold three music, NFTs or four music NFTs last year, and it paid me more than my entire label paid me the duration of my contract.
Yes, as well, I agree. Okay, so I love something that you said there around, you know, how you kind of started contributing to friends with benefits. And I think you said, I kind of just moved in. And I sort of chuckled at that. Because when I think about some of our early contributors, and impactful contributors to Seed Club, that's very much like the maybe not the way that I would have described it. But I think it's a fair description, folks kind of like, add, are almost all consumed by the excitement that's happening in the opportunity that's happening in the organization, and they kind of move in and just start looking for ways to contribute. I'm curious how you sort of contrast that early stage, sort of you're planning your footing and participation in in FWB with maybe how people are onboarding today? Is it consistent? Or is it changed a bit?
Um, you know, I think it's changed a bit. I was really fortunate, because FWB was smaller, we were still thinking through our structure. I think now our structure is a bit more formalized. Where I think there are clear paths, I wouldn't say there's completely clear paths to, to contribution, but there are much clearer paths than when I onboard to onboarded to FWB, there's, you know, a product team, there's an events team. There's editorial, when I on boarded, I think membership was probably the first team and there wasn't any sort of contributors beyond the SourceCred model prior to that.
Can you give us like a high level overview of like the what FWB looks like from a structure perspective, specifically thinking about this idea of like how potential contributors become contributors and maybe laying out that groundwork would be helpful there.
So FWB consists of, gosh, probably 8 to 10 teams at this point. And I think the contributor flow is really around either tapping people in the community that we know have expertise in the areas that we're working in, or folks raising their hands and a way to contribute. So the one thing that's nice about membership is the membership team is one of the few areas in FWB where you don't have to have any expertise at all. And that's where I started the product team, we do need to have some, you know, some either engineering skills or design skills. So we try to sort of match folks with the right teams for them to help, you know, to try to work through what success looks like, for both the team and the contributor.
One of the things that made this tension that exists in these DAOs, and is in the process of being proven out. But on one side of the divide, there's like open permissionless, huge organizations, you hold tokens, you can be a part of it, you know, emergent behavior is rewarded the DAO provides a bunch of resources, and it's up to human beings to come together and make use of them. Maybe I put BanklessDAO is a good example of that. And then on the opposite end, there's maybe the smaller product team DAOs that are like five or seven people and they're very focused on building product. And there's a fairly high bar to joining that team. There's specific talent and skills required to be able to contribute effectively in that small team. I'm curious about how you guys sort of think about maybe the tension that lives in the middle there, which is this desire to create a pathway for more and more people to participate? The thesis there maybe being that ownership and participation is the best way to really drive deep sticky connections with an organization and also the maintaining of the appropriate quality bar or level of talent required to actually execute on some of the more specific things that you're building. Is that attention you guys feel and how are you Thinking about it?
Yeah, it is attention, we feel but I will say, uh, you know, the, the feedback that I think we're getting is most people that want to contribute, want to contribute in an impactful way. And that becomes more challenging to find opportunities for folks to contribute in an impactful way, versus doing something like making a quick flyer are two different models. So you know, we lean a little bit more towards the second model that you talked about, we're not super flat yet, like Bankless and Bankless is probably one of the most High, high functioning DAOs that are as flat as they are, they're really a marvel to me, every day, I think we're taking a slower path to try to make sure that we consistently put out great output. But that also means for us that we are a little bit slower in onboarding contributors to teams and someone like Bankless(DAO).
And how would you think about the trade offs that are happening there for somebody who's maybe that's put them into a contributor, one of you one side, it might be very easy to kind of laughing, I don't know, if it's easy to join BanklessDAO and be participate, I think there's like, a lack of clarity can be challenging there, though. Holding tokens kind of gets you in the door. And it's up to you to figure out how you can participate versus like the more managed structured I get that you have here? Like, is there a recommendation there? Like how do people find their way? Do you think it's easier to get involved in one that has a little bit more structured? Or are you a big fan of just throwing people into the deep end and saying go go figure it out.
I would say it's probably easier to get involved with something with not as much structure, I can't speak to how impactful the experience will be as a contributor, which I think are two different things, right. And I want to sort of be thoughtful here around around how I how I impact this, I think, in some DAO, anyone can raise their hand and spin something up. And it doesn't necessarily feel like it's aligned with the sort of moving vision of the DAO overall, it's almost like a caterpillar with a bunch of legs going in a bunch of different directions. Were having all of our teams and the contributors all on those teams pulling together in one direction, I think, again, sort of allows us to performance sort of a higher level. And I think that ends up being more impactful for the contributors.
Interesting, it's a conversation that has been coming up a bunch for us around, maybe less so about structure, and more. So about clarity of objectives, or mission or international organization, you're going to have senior leadership teams that are setting these strategic directions. And then that's kind of being put down onto a division level and yada, yada. And that almost seems to be the place where you actually get a bunch of worldview friction, if you will, in DAO. And that clarity of direction is absolutely essential, it's probably more essential in a in a more decentralized organization, because otherwise, how do you know that you're actually contributing something of value? And I totally agree, this idea of like, people want to be impactful. That's 100%, you know, low level bounty doesn't do it for most people, they want to be impactful. So I'm curious about that, that sort of like strategic direction piece there. How are you guys managing getting clarity around the high level right now at FWB.
You know, we're really lucky. We have a lot of great team leads that all really, you know, again, I think for every day that I work with folks that I work with, but I think we have a lot of team leads that are aligned and sort of the overall vision of FWB. So we all collectively discuss a lot of the priorities as a group, to try to figure out what some of the best and smartest paths forward are for the DAO. I think Zhang does an incredible job architecting the strategies with teams, but really, the teams are super involved in architecting, the entire DAO structure. And if we're all communicating together, which we typically do a pretty good job of, we do a good job and guiding the DAO in the direction that collectively we think is the right path.
Can you give us a bit of an insight into your operational organizational structure, whatever you did in what you're saying. There's like there's this consensus building off chain through conversation and kind of like this direction kind of starts to emerge from these talented human beings that have like their own areas of expertise and insight feeding up into the DAO level. But how are you managing your operations on a maybe daily, weekly, quarterly cadence or weekly calls that you're doing with your team leads? I'm just trying to get a bit detailed there.
Sure, teams have their own calls every week, then we have calls with the entire teams, and then we've got smaller strategy. And by the way, you know, we all kind of work through these strategies as a group. But ultimately, we do need to make the case to the DAO, which we do at town halls. And then we still put a lot of these decisions to a snapshot vote to make sure that all of the members of the are aligned with the vision of the teams. And so far, we've had really good luck with that. It's been nice sort of starting with soft consensus before pushing to a vote, a soft consensus usually pushes us. And lets us know if we're, we're taking the wrong path. And we've had that come up a few times where we've regrouped and pushed through working through community feedback to get us back on the right path. But yeah, it's the teams have their own meetings, we have a large group team meeting, we do town halls across the DAO, and then we have weekly strategy meetings.
I love that, I think there's like a lot of value in just clearly articulating that organization, I think people have a lot of experience in joining a company. And while I think many of these organizations are still DAOs, they're still pulling on a lot of that insight and experience on how to build companies and operate as human beings. They're so human beings, like there's like a lot of uncertainty or a feeling of lack of clarity for new contributors that are coming in. And in listening to how you're explaining the operations of FWB like, it's very simple, in many ways. And yet, I think it's extremely valuable for people to sort of see that there's work happening on sort of more of a macro micro level, that stuff gets fed up into this sort of broader consensus building strategy layer that then is ultimately sort of engaged in a governance process and the idea of sort of like a gut check through a sock consensus vote that then moves, you know, a proposal forward through debt to ultimate ratification from the DAO. Like all that stuff, I think is it's almost magic to many people. And yet, when you're in it, it can almost seem like just the most basic stuff. So.
Yeah, it's so funny, like listening to you sort of articulate that process. I'm sitting here amazed that we have such a strong process that seems so well thought out. But in you're correct in the thick of it, it just seems like we're doing our thing.
Yeah. It's gonna do your thing. I'm curious how you guys think of governance, because there seems to be like this broad spectrum that's being experimented with right now, out in the ecosystem. On one end is like everything goes up for a snapshot vote, and certain outcomes or chaos ensues. On the opposite side, there's like, you know, core teams that are making a lot of decisions. And maybe there's quarterly budgets that are being voted on on a DAO level. How have you sort of thought about the trade off between sort of making a process public versus Yeah, how deeply? Do you want people to be involved in that governance process? Or are they today?
So I think, you know, sort of small stakes stuff. We trust the teams to, to make the decisions, most of the time when we go to a snapshot vote, it's about a treasury disbursement every so often, it will, will be a non treasury snapshot. But for the most part, it's snapshot vote. And it's typically over, I'd say, probably, around $20,000, is where it is. And I think it depends on the initiative. So for example, you know, the digital events team, they present their budget quarterly, which I think is reasonable, because we want to book digital programming a quarter at a time. But there may be one offs, where we're hosting an event, or we're making a change to membership, that we'll go through the snapshot process to make sure we record the consensus for the future. That's interesting.
When I think about governance, I think that like the core focus should be about legitimacy building. And I think the way that you articulated that as like recording that consensus on chains for the future is maybe like the right way of framing, ultimately, what legitimacy building is, and that we can say, at this point in time we made this decision and henceforth agreed upon, and we sort of move forward with it. But I think there's also like, you know, I've looked to FWB and how you're even thinking about rolling out monthly budgets or quarterly budgets and and like the level of detail that goes into those, or or not, I think it's actually, it seems very thoughtful, and that a lot of work seems to be going on behind the scenes in the smaller teams that are bubbling up to a vote. And I think that's a good example of sort of a thoughtful approach to governance, right, where there can be too much involvement in governance, and especially since there's an immense amount of information asymmetry that exists, especially when you're dealing with certainly smaller teams. And so I pointed out FWB often is saying, well, here's a thoughtful way of ensuring that you're building that legitimacy in governance, the DAO is ultimately in control. And also there's sort of the speeding up of information from the edges that is higher signal because of the amount is symmetry that just exists in operating anything.
Right. Exactly, exactly. I mean, it's important to us, the budgets a great example of that, because everything gets recorded and put up for a vote in the budget. So it allows us to course correct if anyone sees anything that looks out of place. And while we try to optimize for for consensus, we do Trying to make sure that we're we're also listening to individual concerns as well, just to make sure that everyone feels like they have a say in the process.
Can you tell me a little bit more about that laser an example of of that, or how that works?
We do have a lively governance channel and most of our members feel comfortable enough to pop into our DMs, if they've got questions around things, or if they've got opinions around things, I think, you know, sort of going back to the contributor on ramp, I think one of the biggest questions is usually how can can folks get more involved, we really do try to move towards soft consensus. And that also goes with all the way through to our team meetings, and things like that, where we'll think we have a game plan, and you'll have a few people on the team flag, their concerns, and suddenly we realize, well, maybe we were off on the wrong path. The one thing that's just been really nice about working with the FWB team is I can't say that there's a single person on the team that always feels like they know the exact right thing, way to do things and DAO world. So everything stays really fluid and really flexible in our space. For the most parts.
I think it also speaks to the importance of or some of the value you can get out of being thoughtful about how you bring in core team members. And they're sort of like this, a hiring for culture piece that I think is deceptively important in DAO and that you don't have that hierarchical control. And so that the tools that you have to actually make decisions, stay focused, etc, are less hierarchy based and much more consensus based and culturally based. And so it sounds like the culture that's being built there at FWB is one that values a lot of things that are ultimately allow for the flexibility and direction and effectiveness that you guys are sort of leaning into.
Yeah, it's hard for me to sort of articulate just how impressive the group of folks at FWB are. It's, it's unlike anywhere I've ever been a part of. So I feel super lucky every day.
I feel the exact same way about the Seed Club team. And I think that might be one of the most exciting opportunities for potential contributors today is to like, find amazing communities that they feel very aligned with and find an opportunity to work with those folks. Because I have the exact same feeling right. And I've talked to many other people that are sort of operating in this space right now where it's just this like, privilege to be doing the work we're doing but even more of a privilege to be doing it with the people we're doing it with.
100%. And to me, it wouldn't be the same. doing the work wouldn't be the same without the people. We're all doing it alongside.
Yeah, totally agree. One of the most prominent DMs I get I'm assuming you as well, is from people who said that they love everything that your DAO is all about, and would love to know how to contribute more helped me contribute more. And I think they're seeing this in the market more generally as them. So let's talk about onboarding. And there's tools and how do we get, you know, the next million people into DAOs. And, you know, in an operational context, there's this very real challenge that is less about finding maybe great talent, but more about finding useful, high impact ways for people to contribute. How have you sort of navigated that world where I'm assuming you're getting more demands to do work than you actually have space for?
We do we have more hands up than we have roles, but I think we're sort of shifting towards something new that we've we started last season. And we've launched a proposal review team to allow contributors to pull together their own proposal to launch their own initiative. So whether it's we had some members working on an FWB cookbook, which is so rad. We had others that ended up sponsoring and the community voted on a universal basic income test for a season. I think the solution is not as much finding roles for people on existing teams, as it is for allowing people and teams or maybe not allowing but making sure they understand there's permission for existing folks to push through their own initiatives that can be part of the FWB family.
Got it. So there's almost like, you know, creating more structure and examples that show people how they can go and take initiative and make something exist. I think that's like in our worldview at Seed Club, the highest value thing a contributor can do is take responsibility for an initiative. And it's something that we reward and that's a core team members are taking that responsibility. But folks coming together around a proposal is like the ultimate version of that, like there's being there from the inception of something is probably the best way to identify those folks that could be high impact but also create that tight bond between idea and proposal and project and the individual creators.
Totally agree. I totally agree. I think to making sure folks understand that they have the opportunity to create their own role or roles within the DAO provided the community supports it, I think is super powerful. I think it's so powerful. And then it comes through, you know, it ends up coming down to the execution, right to see whether or not that role or that proposal will pick up enough traction and garner enough support for it's become sort of a permanent entity within the DAO.
I'm curious how you, as an organization are measuring that success, you know, the OKRs, and KPIs of our past? We're there for a reason, right? There's sort of a common language and a focus and a way of sort of measuring progress. How's that done in FWB Today?
You know, we're doing some of the same things where each team is setting some goals for themselves to try to meet, season by season, some goals are more important than others. But I think sitting down and collectively talking through those goals with the strategy team, and having some support from the strategy team on those goals, is super helpful in that regard. And that's we're pushing things through the same way. This is our first season doing it. So we'll see where things land at the end of the season.
Can you zoom in a little bit on like, how you would imagine operationalizing, some of like the the measurement. And this is a very selfish conversation, because it's something that we're also early stages in. But it sounds like this idea of a team articulating a goal and then say that goal isn't hit. How do you sort of manage that process? Or is there a formal process there?
We haven't made it through that to that point yet. But I think the first thing would be trying to understand why it didn't happen. And if it's something that makes sense that something that's reasonable, I think it just gets added to the following season's goal. And then if it's something that if there's a reason for not hitting the goal, that seems less valid than there being a blocker out of your control, I would imagine there'll be conversations we haven't had that happen yet.
Yeah, I love that answer. Because like, that's the truth of figuring all this stuff out and then be like, I think so much of what we're doing right now is this sort of collective learning so much value in these organizations that are out there on the edges trying to figure this out? Because it is different enough that there are new methods and models and processes that I think need to be developed. And so even thinking through practically, how are we improving on a season by season basis, I think is an essential sort of function for these organizations. And it is one that would normally live in sort of a management suite. And now I think needs to be sort of brought down into a team by team basis, when you probably should have always been in a team by team basis, I often describe building it out as having two products, like one might be the membership and the social site or social context of your building. And then two is the DAO itself. Would you agree with that statement?
Yeah, I think I would, I mean, I do kind of want to go back to this notion of trying to figure out the best way to do things. Because while the space moves so quickly, there are so many challenges when it comes to the structure around DAOs. And doing simple things like trying to figure out how to deal with fear, trying to figure out how you deal with banking, trying to figure out how you deal with reimbursements. Like there are all these different challenges within DAOs, that don't have ready web3 solutions. So while the space is moving really quickly, there are things that would normally be you know, in the web2 space, super quick spin up, that will take you much longer to try to work through is that as a DAO to figure out how you can do it in a compliant way, dealing with the I don't want to say the real world but dealing with the the outside of, of web3 world,
I think that's an understatement and a half once you get into it.
Yeah, I mean, we're trying to figure out how to do health care for the DAO. And that's a great example of it, where if I was at a web2 company, I would use a web2 HR solution like bamboo, I would use a web2 Payroll Solution, like gusto. I would have our healthcare spin up. And I'd probably have all that done bank accounts, everything done in less than a month. It's not that way in this space. And it's we will have been working on trying to figure out how to get health care for the DAO for about six months, at the end of this month. But we'll have a solution in place, we think by the end of the month, which is crazy. I mean, it's crazy. It's great, and other DAOs will be able to use it. But that's a really long time to try to kind of think through a web3 solution for DAO.
One of the challenges that I've sort of seen in this increased attention and excitement about DAOs is that there is early on when it was fairly nascent and I'll even go just maybe a year ago, who wasn't the sense of like overinflated expectations around house, like, you know, you can really clearly experienced the limitations of it, especially if you're early on to a number of these communities. And today, there's like, everything's a DAO, and people are talking about DAOs DAOs DAOs. So I think there's this new mainstream attention that's coming in or early majority attention is coming in that I worry kind of has a mis calibrated view of like where we're actually at with DAOs. So I think that story around the complications of even just setting up health care, you're not even talking about legal structures, or there may be some around that, and banking, etc, etc. The TLDR, there is like, it is still incredibly new. And I think one of the challenging things that work in this space is that you could go do six months of working on that specific thing. And it could be wrong, two months from now. And so just need to be in that space of like discovery and co creation, but I think it's gonna exist for some period of time.
Yeah, I mean, it's, I think it's part of why it's taken us a little bit longer than I had hoped, because I think we've tried to do a really good job in thinking through all of the potential pitfalls and some of the decisions that we make in that space, and weighing every option. So I would argue, you know, on the healthcare front, I probably spent two months just digging into the existing solutions to finally realize there's no existing solution that will work for us. So we need to work with someone to create around.
The build versus buy, but on across every single aspect of an organization, not just your software. Sounds fun. So you signed up for it.
Yeah. Some of it, but some of it is really fun. You know, like, I think something like at FWB spinning up gatekeeper is really, really exciting. Where FWB spinning up healthcare is kind of exhausting.
A number of members on our team that I think will find that far more exciting than than gatekeeper. So yeah, that work. And I think it's gonna be foundational. And I think that's like the when I think about the disruptive nature of DAOs, I think many think about funding etc. And these large organizations, I think, figuring out those specific things are going to have some of the biggest impacts on the space generally, as it's, it's such a big barrier. And solving, it reduces so much friction to getting more people into the space and having more builders and more innovation, which is ultimately I think, what we need.
I agree, and I think like for us, the health care thing is so important, because it it kind of comes back to building web3 in a way that we want, right? So in an ideal world, everyone else healthcare. So figuring out how we can do it. And hopefully that can can translate to other DAOs, to be able to do it makes not only our DAO better, but it makes the entire ecosystem better. So that that is something that's pretty exciting to us for sure.
I'm constantly in shock, the fact that the United States doesn't have universal health care. And so it's the thing that's appreciate is probably super relevant for you. And at the same time that the freedom that universal health care is provided for me in Canada's really tough to, to overstate.
I agree, I think the lack of universal health care in the United States really stifles innovation, I really do.
Totally agree, something speaks for the value of creating that space for people's genius to really manifest could be one of the big unlocks from DAOs. So everything, Patti, that's that's our solution here and well, that we're on the same page.
I feel like seed club is going to solve a lot of stuff. I'm really excited.
We're working on it. Okay, to change tacks here a little bit over the last few months has been in a very, almost contentious sort of time in the crypto space, there's sort of a number of more challenging sort of social contributor, Code of Conduct type of conversations that have emerged in ENS. And with FWB, and many others would have sort of done is really refocused. I think some of the best teams thinking through what infrastructure is required to create a safe and effective space for people to come together and bring their full selves to, to this work of just going to whatever detail you feel comfortable with, like, how are you thinking about creating that sort of that sinew or structure that allows a community like FWB to kind of come together around the sort of shared values and norms and ways of being and and maybe specifically how that relates to dealing with some of the conflict that is inevitable in these organizations?
So one of the things that we did before the our own internal situation have popped up, was the DAO itself came up with a code of conduct that was pushed out and voted on to be ratified by the DAO that basically outlined our values outlined behaviors and actions that were not welcome as part of the community and outlined process as to how to deal with potential infractions as they came up. So we were really lucky the community had ratified that. So when an issue came into focus there was a process around it that ended up rather than it being a crisis for the DAO there was a process to govern it and figure out what what future was for the DAO regarding that member.
Do you see like code of conduct as being like an essential part of a new DAO stack? Or is Should it have been in prioritize sooner did come at the right time? How are you thinking about, like when a community should engage in Code of Conduct type structures?
You know, I think it depends on your community, we were getting to a point where we were becoming so large. And while we didn't have a lot of issues, a couple of things popped up where team members felt like we probably needed some sort of process in place to sort of think through it. The code of conduct that FWB, put forth is, is a CCO so any DAO can grab it and fork it and make their own code of conduct pretty, pretty easily. I was really impressed with with the way the community reacted to it, I was also impressed that we we had a process in place to deal with it, I think, not something that we had anticipated meeting but you know, it happens. And I would urge most daos to sort of think through what that looks like for their own DAOs. So that way, they have a process in place as well, if if an issue comes up.
There's two big valleys that come out of being clear around it. One is like people understand the nature of the game being played. And so there's many surprises, but two from like an operational standpoint, having a process that kind of creates space and time. And fairness, I think in how it's addressed is so valuable, both from like a, I'm sure a practical sense of like you sitting there on Twitter when an issue arises, and how do you message and sort of manage through it and being able to point to processes is key. And then also to ensure that like, there's these sort of weird potential governance risk areas that come up around social attacks, etc. And it's kind of crazy to think through like the number of different vectors that you kind of need to be thinking about, and how to kind of maybe slow some decisions down. And I think process is pretty powerful for there. So it's something that we're deeply involved in are collaborating with a number of DAOs on as well as to try to just make it a little easier for our teams to inherit something that they can use and really make small changes to and I think we have FWB and sort of like the minute it's leaning on a broad swath of work and open source development, I think, from my understanding, right, like the the code of conduct that you guys are actually using, has history is back in an open source world. So yeah, super valuable. But I want to shift gears one more time, I think one of the things that I've admired the most from early contributors in the DAO space is just their commitment to making it easier for other talented people to kind of come into the space usually involves, you know, a lot of sort of education and quick in communication folks coming on to the podcast like this, I sort of think about like people as early members being paving the way for for the next generation of folks that come in, and maybe generations are just like, distinguished by months, not years, or decades, as they would be in the traditional world. I'm curious, how have you sort of thought about making it easier for the next Patti to come in and participate in the DAO ecosystem?
Boy, you know, I think generally, working through some of the operational issues that I've been working on for FWB, I think is just going to help not only the next Patti, but it's just going to help onboard a lot of different people that are not from the web3 space into the DAO space. I think, you know, and again, I thought I know, we touched on this earlier, but I think the health care thing is really important. I think working through benefits and allowing more security and easier processes, you know, the web3 is still wet, three, still a little janky. You know, I mean, I remember when I set up my first wallet, and I just was like, I don't know what this is the seems a little weird. And it doesn't seem particularly slick, which, you know, doesn't necessarily give people a lot of confidence. But I think, you know, I think our product team, making beautiful products that I think will instill some confidence, I think the DAO itself, working through things like health care, and legal structure, and all of those things, is going to help onboard, hopefully a ton of people into this ecosystem, and will also helpfully, you know, help other DAOs, we really do genuinely try to share as much knowledge as we have with folks that ask, and I'm constantly making introductions to people in the space that have been particularly helpful to FWB. And to the operational things we've been working on.
I can attest to the immense support and sharing of knowledge that that you and your team have sort of participated in, especially with Seed Club. So big thanks for that. It's hard to overstate the impact that having an example can have on a space if I think about some of the inflection Some points over the last couple of years as it relates to Seed Club. I think FWB plays such a major role in one of the bigger inflection points, which I would say, sort of for us was like between SC02 and SC03. This is shortly following a fundraise that FWB did and I think it's sort of like the legitimacy of this space of what could be done to the space, I think was really impacted positively based on the things that you and your team have been doing. And so I think like, that happens, sort of on a macro scale, but also on a more micro scale, as all these sort of new features toolsets experiments kind of come out and gain traction. And I think it's, the big thing that we're involved in at Seed Club is want to just continue to provide more and more and more examples such that people feel more confident and can see themselves in building in the space. But I think it can be very small things that don't feel like they are big, that can actually be that big, unlock so much love and appreciation for all the work that you and actually the team has done and the benefits that I think it's created to bring so many more talented, creative individuals into the space.
I think, really, without DAO sort of thinking through a lot of these things. We're going to miss some talents. So it's exciting that everyone, including Seed Club is sort of working towards making the ecosystem more stable and more welcoming place for folks that want to shift into the space.
Yeah, I love that. Well, this has been a lovely conversation. I love coming into these and just being like, I am fascinated, I have so many questions. Let's see where the conversation goes, I hope at least in reflecting on our brief conversation here, there's sort of an interesting mix between somebody who's both an early contributor and sort of finding their feet in the space and also somebody who's very active in building the processes and structures to bring new new folks into operational roles or contributor roles within your organization. I think that's kind of an interesting conversation space for us to have explored. I'm sure people will find it very valuable. Where should people? Well, this is your time to show Patti, where can people find you on the internet? And like, is there something that we should direct their attention to this month?
If you want to find me the find me on Twitter, I'm RattyMouseman, with trends with Patti Hauseman - @RattyMouseman. And obviously, I would urge folks, if you have the time and inclination to look into any of the folks out there helping facilitate crypto donations to the folks in Ukraine, I think it's been really heartening to see the Ethereum community coming together and already raising I think, close to $6 million for Ukraine in a short time, but I know that more resources are needed. So that would be my show. Is please support Ukraine.
Ukraine DAO wonderful good places to go do that. It's some good overlap between FWB and Seed Club with some of those folks that are are launching that. So amazing. Fully agree. Awesome. Well, Patti, appreciate your time. You've been very generous with us over at Seed Club. And so thank you for that. And yeah, I look forward to publishing this episode and continuing to bring incredibly talented individuals into the space that you and I care so deeply about. So appreciate you and we'll see on the internet.
It was an honor to be invited to be on das and thank you so much for your time, and I feel like Seed Club is probably one of the most exciting DAO in the space. So grateful I had the opportunity to talk to you today.